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Staysails

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staysails.jpg.ae474ec366e4b39fb1ad8f00e822485a.jpg

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"Triple slotting" was thing for a short time in the IOR days.

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6 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

But of course, those chaps had mad street cred back in the day.

It is nice to see the young whipper-snappers upping their game.

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Is it just me or is Dongfeng overpowered. 

I know they like to sail heeled to keep the wetted surface down.

Perhaps this shot was taken during a particularly strong gust.

It just looks like a lot of power being lost due to poor angles of sails and foils in their respective mediums.

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16 minutes ago, Shu said:

Is it just me or is Dongfeng overpowered. 

I know they like to sail heeled to keep the wetted surface down.

Perhaps this shot was taken during a particularly strong gust.

It just looks like a lot of power being lost due to poor angles of sails and foils in their respective mediums.

I think the helmsman was trying to sail up over that wave...rather than take the wave breaking on the beam...she was a smacker either way

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That's a likely explanation.  A few of the headsails are noticeably luffing.

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4 sailing is exactly how Dong Feng broke the rig last time. Shhhhh don't tell Shanghai he'll be here to defend it anytime now....

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17 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

4 sailing is exactly how Dong Feng broke the rig last time. Shhhhh don't tell Shanghai he'll be here to defend it anytime now....

I bet every boat in that fleet does it when the situation warrants...so, what the hell was the point of your post besides taking a really weak shot at someone.

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Who are you alleging I had a shot at Shanghai or Dongfeng? I was agreeing with Shu's post. Maybe they did head up for the wave & i'm sure they all push in this config but there is absolutely no question is stresses the rig out & could lead to failure, which happened last race. 

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I think there was a time in the early days of 49ers that some were breaking topmasts in light/moderate air with the spinnaker up.  Reaching at hot angles put high side loads on the rig.  Same issue?  Seems potentially worse for the Volvo 65 as the canting keel is not suspended from the rig, as is the ballast (crew) of the 49er. 

The rig is designed to handle the maximum righting moment of the boat with the keel fully canted and some allowance for dynamic loading and safety factor.  Each of the halyards for those 4 sails places a significant compression load on the mast so it is likely one of the worst case loading scenarios.

Do they still haul the bowman up the mast to put a strop from the spinnaker head to the mast, or did that go out with the Volvo/Whitbread 60?

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1 minute ago, Shu said:

I think there was a time in the early days of 49ers that some were breaking topmasts in light/moderate air with the spinnaker up.  Reaching at hot angles put high side loads on the rig.  Same issue?  Seems potentially worse for the Volvo 65 as the canting keel is not suspended from the rig, as is the ballast (crew) of the 49er. 

The rig is designed to handle the maximum righting moment of the boat with the keel fully canted and some allowance for dynamic loading and safety factor.  Each of the halyards for those 4 sails places a significant compression load on the mast so it is likely one of the worst case loading scenarios.

So, whose rite?  Scanny tacking a shotte or CD worreng to muche?

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4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Yeah 12+

Is that what all that noise up on the fore deck was? I was wondering what you guys were up to. You kept waking me up.

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6 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

 

Imp.jpg

That's the photo that I first thought of, but somewhere is a less-cropped version showing the spinnaker.

 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Is that what all that noise up on the fore deck was? I was wondering what you guys were up to. You kept waking me up.

The only way to settle the debate is to fly it. 

I think you need to start a new qld coastal race. Brisbane to Keppel Island Casino, could be QLD's richest yachting event if the casino will sponsor it! 

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Just now, SCANAS said:

The only way to settle the debate is to fly it. 

I think you need to start a new qld coastal race. Brisbane to Keppel Island Casino, could be QLD's richest yachting event if the casino will sponsor it! 

Two legs. Manly to Keppel island, then a few days later, the island to Madison square gardens.

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2 hours ago, Shu said:

Do they still haul the bowman up the mast to put a strop from the spinnaker head to the mast,

?? They are on roller blinds.

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2 hours ago, Shu said:

I think there was a time in the early days of 49ers that some were breaking topmasts in light/moderate air with the spinnaker up.  Reaching at hot angles put high side loads on the rig.  Same issue?  Seems potentially worse for the Volvo 65 as the canting keel is not suspended from the rig, as is the ballast (crew) of the 49er. 

The rig is designed to handle the maximum righting moment of the boat with the keel fully canted and some allowance for dynamic loading and safety factor.  Each of the halyards for those 4 sails places a significant compression load on the mast so it is likely one of the worst case loading scenarios.

Do they still haul the bowman up the mast to put a strop from the spinnaker head to the mast, or did that go out with the Volvo/Whitbread 60?

Halyard locks

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45 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Two legs. Manly to Keppel island, then a few days later, the island to Madison square gardens.

Round the Horn or Via Canal mate?

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That's a whole other area of porn & I gotta draw the line on you there JS!  

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1 minute ago, SCANAS said:

That's a whole other area of porn & I gotta draw the line on you there JS!  

Me too.

I don't go for that German porn.

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12 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

That's the photo that I first thought of, but somewhere is a less-cropped version showing the spinnaker.

 

Imp_Nassau+Race+77+SORC.png

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5 hours ago, Bruno said:

Has anyone got polars on adding staysails?

it depends.....

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7 hours ago, Bruno said:

Has anyone got polars on adding staysails?

1/2 a knot increase when you put it up. 1/2 a knot increase when you take it down.

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Just now, Hitcher said:

1/2 a knot increase when you put it up. 1/2 a knot increase when you take it down.

And the 1/2 knot you lose screwing around deciding...

 

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2 hours ago, Hitcher said:

1/2 a knot increase when you put it up. 1/2 a knot increase when you take it down.

That's bloopers.

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12 hours ago, Hitcher said:

1/2 a knot increase when you put it up. 1/2 a knot increase when you take it down.

Very true. This will divide the crew. The first half, those who wanted it up, will be right for a while. Then the opposition will be right when it comes down.

That the wind maybe changed is NEVER said out loud.

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On 01/11/2017 at 11:31 AM, SCANAS said:

Yeah 12+

You bastard Scanas, you told me the third set of sheets were for spares....

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I think it takes a couple of extra knots to work on the pogo, say 15. 

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On November 1, 2017 at 12:30 PM, Bruno said:

Has anyone got polars on adding staysails?

In general, the larger the staysail, the more speed it adds but in a narrower AWA. Smaller staysail adds less speed, but is effective over a wider angle. That goes for mizzen staysails also. If you only carry one staysail, err on the smaller side. Light and strong wind usually calls for a smaller staysail. The only way to determine is to put it up and see if it helps. Take notes, so next time you know. Have never seen a boat that a staysail was never effective.

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On 10/31/2017 at 12:40 PM, egon said:

staysails.jpg.ae474ec366e4b39fb1ad8f00e822485a.jpg

Yo Dawg. Thats a jib top, jib and staysail. Keep it real.

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23 hours ago, RKoch said:

Have never seen a boat that a staysail was never effective

+1 and a small heavy blade with heavily reefed main makes for the perfect big windy setup that is easy to change gears up and down as required.

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6 hours ago, Kevlar Edge said:

Yo Dawg. Thats a jib top, jib and staysail. Keep it real.

Try again.

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Noticed the draft stripes don't line up on DF.  Might help matching the flow if the stripes were same level from sail-sail.  

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

+1 and a small heavy blade with heavily reefed main makes for the perfect big windy setup that is easy to change gears up and down as required.

Have never seen a ___________ where a __________ was never effective.  Fucking Brilliant.

boat   stays'l

dog   bone

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22 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Noticed the draft stripes don't line up on DF.  Might help matching the flow if the stripes were same level from sail-sail.  

Why, does the air only follow the stripes down the sail? Did the air get to the third foresail and get lost and cause the boat to get slower? 

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5 hours ago, A-NU-START said:

Why, does the air only follow the stripes down the sail? Did the air get to the third foresail and get lost and cause the boat to get slower? 

Pretty funny A-NU-S, but no, they've got shark skin sails for that.  

I do think that matching telltale positions and draft stripes between sails might help get the slots all set up right.  That shit is hard to see with that many sails in the air.

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29 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Pretty funny A-NU-S, but no, they've got shark skin sails for that.  

I do think that matching telltale positions and draft stripes between sails might help get the slots all set up right.  That shit is hard to see with that many sails in the air.

Doesn't sound like you've ever flown a staysail.

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13 minutes ago, carcrash said:

High Lift Aerodynamics, by A.M.O. Smith, Chief Aerodynamics Engineer for Research at Douglas Aircraft Company presented as paper 74-939 at the AIAA 6th Aircraft Design, Flight Test and Operations Meeting, Los Angeles, Calif., August 12-14, 1974

"The author attempts to prove that an airfoil having n+1 elements can develop more lift than one having n elements. Handley Page investigated this problem, up through 8 elements. Figure 4 shows one of his extreme airfoils, a very highly modified RAF 19 section, positioned at the angle for maximum lift."

 

Fig4_RAF19.png

And you thought foredeck was busy now. . .

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39 minutes ago, carcrash said:

High Lift Aerodynamics, by A.M.O. Smith, Chief Aerodynamics Engineer for Research at Douglas Aircraft Company presented as paper 74-939 at the AIAA 6th Aircraft Design, Flight Test and Operations Meeting, Los Angeles, Calif., August 12-14, 1974

"The author attempts to prove that an airfoil having n+1 elements can develop more lift than one having n elements. Handley Page investigated this problem, up through 8 elements. Figure 4 shows one of his extreme airfoils, a very highly modified RAF 19 section, positioned at the angle for maximum lift."

 

Fig4_RAF19.png

Handley Page made generally shitty aircraft - the reason they disappeared.

I'd use the info from someone else myself..

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Handley Page made generally shitty aircraft - the reason they disappeared.

I'd use the info from somebody else myself..

Wise choice.

 

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We used to fly Spin Stay'sl  on the SC27 and O30 all the time. Tacked to the windward rail when off the wind and center line for reaches.
Only if there was enough breeze to not interfere with the kite.
The make a good windfinder too when the wind dies.

I'd like one, if I did more RLC courses.

 

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54 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

We used to fly Spin Stay'sl  on the SC27 and O30 all the time. Tacked to the windward rail when off the wind and center line for reaches.
Only if there was enough breeze to not interfere with the kite.
The make a good windfinder too when the wind dies.

I'd like one, if I did more RLC courses.

 

That's exactly how to use them. Fitted with a reef and hoisted on a lower halyard is great for jib reaching. The lower halyard can be the pole lift relocated higher.

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6 minutes ago, RKoch said:

That's exactly how to use them. Fitted with a reef and hoisted on a lower halyard is great for jib reaching. The lower halyard can be the pole lift relocated higher.

Does anyone buy Dazy Staysails these days or have they fallen by the wayside?  Best use was often as a wind seeker.

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On 11/1/2017 at 9:58 AM, ryley said:

Imp_Nassau+Race+77+SORC.png

This picture is so cool.....

Thank you.

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16 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Does anyone buy Dazy Staysails these days or have they fallen by the wayside?  Best use was often as a wind seeker.

I seldom see them bought new. Not very useful in sausage racing. Still very effective on long reaching legs. Hint: there's next to no demand in used sail market for spin staysails and bloopers. The used sail emporiums sell perfectly good ones for peanuts....like $100 each for a 30'er.  I also once pulled a tired old SR Max Genoa out of a dumpster, slapped a little sticky back on it, cut hanks off and replaced bolt rope with recycled kev-cord, and gave it to a kid to use on his parents C&C 27 as a Genoa staysail. Worked great with the 170 hed cut down to a 155 jib top. They were fast as shit jib reaching.

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4 minutes ago, madohe said:

This picture is so cool.....

Thank you.

Peep today don't get what an epic boat Imp was 40 years ago. And it wasn't due to a loophole or freak...just good solid design work and engineering.

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1 hour ago, madohe said:

This picture is so cool.....

Thank you.

Perhaps rivaled only by the iconic photo of a Cal 40 surfing into the finish of the Transpac.

Cal-40-Diamondhead-504x372.jpg

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IIRC there's another iconic Cal 40 pic surfing like crazy under a poled out Genoa.

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Night Runner has a Genoa staysail (150% overlap) that is awesome under the jib top, or on broader reaches under the spinnaker. I'm a huge fan of that sail, it's a nice way to change gears while cruising too (it's an uptick over the heavy staysail when the wind goes lighter)

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

Found it. Google is my friend.

 

image.jpg

Surfing into Nassau just after the finish....SORC

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14 hours ago, RKoch said:

Peep today don't get what an epic boat Imp was 40 years ago. And it wasn't due to a loophole or freak...just good solid design work and engineering.

A true game changer. The biggest deal post Ganbare.

I still love the striped paint job too. There were a couple of boat here done that way in blue and they looked very good.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

A true game changer. The biggest deal post Ganbare.

I still love the striped paint job too. There were a couple of boat here done that way in blue and they looked very good.

Certainly the biggest deal post Ganbare. 

But IMO, the real harbinger of things to come (although probably few realized it at the time) was Gerontius (Farr 42) which was designed in 1973 and was a surprise selection to the '75 NZ AC team.  Okay, she didn't set the world on fire - but she performed well and was designed mainly as a cruiser with only a passing nod to IOR.  The proof of concept could be seen in smaller concurrent and subsequent NZ ton champs like 45 Deg South, Magic Bus, and Waverider.

Probably would have done even better with a frac rig, but the MH set up was a cruising concession.

ajax-news-photos-1975-solent-england-admirals-cup-new-zealand-team-G2A5F0.jpg

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