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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
jack_sparrow

Clipper Does a Vestas

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Fucknuckle you're all over it. Thanks I couldn't find that RO release or it was put up after I posted the thread. 

As always the spotlight goes on the driver and in this case steering a comfortable but sporty English truck. Woodruff seems pretty capable, then again so was Nicho. Hope not another case of throw one under the bus.

https://clipperroundtheworld.com/news/article/andy-woodruff-named-as-interim-greenings-skipper

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Great to hear everyone's ok...

I've no idea what this means, but according to the race viewer; they "Played a Joker" and rammed it into the Cape- WTF is going on?

image.png.1599aea6045c9a55fa704cbabfb8d134.png

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"Playing a Joker" means you've selected a particular leg as a double scoring leg. Dare to Lead selected Leg 2 as their joker leg and finished 2nd so it worked out well for them (leading overall).

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38 minutes ago, knucklehead said:

"Playing a Joker" means you've selected a particular leg as a double scoring leg. Dare to Lead selected Leg 2 as their joker leg and finished 2nd so it worked out well for them (leading overall).

Pick your own double scoring leg? WTF, is this a yacht race or  an episode of Family Feud?

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Cape Town, South Africa tide times for the next 7 days

Springs peak on SAT at just under 2 meters. If that pic was taken even at low tide they are fucked. What do those caravans draw anyway?

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It is a wonder the RO didn't make them all hit it to be fair.

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3m apparently. Gunna need a BBIIGG jack up barge if they can't float it off  ... 34 tonnes! 

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a big moon was up,
pretty clear,
almost no swell,
1 hour before high tide,
off the cape point nature reserve, so no land lights until cape point itself

weird...

autopilot glitch?
cocked up the gybe out?

 

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16 minutes ago, garpgarp said:

a big moon was up,
pretty clear,
almost no swell,
1 hour before high tide,
off the cape point nature reserve, so no land lights until cape point itself

weird...

autopilot glitch?
cocked up the gybe out?

 

Autopilot?  The polite term is 'punter'.

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This boat C34 might have to be put in the crew selection categories of "I'm an attention seeker" and "Are you sure you really want to sail on me" for this race.

You see last edition CV24 was called 'LMAX Exchange'.

First LMAX managed to.stumble across a drifting boat with no rig east of the Phillipines. Now it just happened to have a mummified German sailor on board, whose remains were coincidently propped up at the nav station.

Second LMAX gate crashed a beach party just outside Rio Brazil when changing marinas.

She went on to win the last edition. However call me superstitious, but there is some weird bad karma navigation shit hanging over this puppy. That or the punters keep smuggling bananas on board.

Sayo3.jpg

Screen-Shot-2015-10-02-at-17.03.08.jpg

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Bit more info, mostly officialese. (Crew 'debrief', no more CV24 this race, salvage survey tomorrow.)

Quote

UPDATE 01 NOVEMBER 1720 UTC (1920 local time)

Following careful analysis of the situation and state of the Clipper Race Yacht CV24 the Clipper Race office has confirmed that the vessel is partially underwater after running aground on the western side of the Cape Peninsula, South Africa, and will take no further part in the Clipper 2017-18 Race.

The decision has been communicated to the Interim Skipper, Andy Woodruff, and discussions have taken place with Greenings Skipper, David Hartshorn (recovering from an earlier injury) and his crew regarding their future participation in this edition of the race.

The safety of the Skipper and crew have been paramount throughout this incident and all are doing well and no injuries have been reported.

Underwriters have appointed a surveyor who will attend the boat tomorrow and, on receipt of his report, a decision will be made as to whether the boat will be salvaged or not.

A full investigation of the incident is underway.

UPDATE 01 NOVEMBER 0900 UTC (1100 local time)

Greenings Skipper, Andy Woodruff, and crew are doing well after some rest in Cape Town and are currently being debriefed by the Clipper Race Office team.

http://clipperroundtheworld.com/news/article/greenings-crew-evacuated-after-running-aground

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Looking at their track, it looks like they thought they had passed the second lighthouse, and turned onto the same course as everyone else did after the second lighthouse.

No-one bothered to check the chart plotter.

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Hey Ozee.  Where you been and how have you got a score of -33 so quickly ??

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How did jack get 116 likes in one day? Jack is in his early 70's and he hasn't met 116 people in his life that liked him.

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Still around, still sailing , just not gas bagging about it. I've had some great times with BJ while he's been in the country so talking ABOUT you guys not TO you!

I actually took up dancing too!

No idea what my score even means

Edited by Ozee Adventure
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He will give you a down vote for that.  Incidentally, how did you go from very bad to very good so quickly ?

2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

How did jack get 116 likes in one day? Jack is in his early 70's and he hasn't met 116 people in his life that liked him.

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50 minutes ago, DtM said:

He will give you a down vote for that.  Incidentally, how did you go from very bad to very good so quickly ?

One vote per LB sock puppet I reckon!

JS must have been up all night ticking off posts!

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No sock puppet action yet. Keeping their powder dry.

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Jack is in his early 70's

Dear chap the only 70's number or close there to in my life is the blow job number count after I got divorced. The count prior to that did not require great maths skills.

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12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Dear chap the only 70's number or close there to in my life is the blow job number count after I got divorced. The count prior to that did not require great maths skills.

So the wife didn't like you doing that to yourself in front of her? Now you can knock yourself out.

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28 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Is that what u call the slaves in the basement?

I have no idea of their locale or if they are being held against their will, however if so I suspect they are enjoying extra rations today. Go visit the Leaderboard to see the genesis behind their great joy and why LB is narky today.

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Back on topic - I wonder if the punters on Greening will get their folding stuff back? Maybe they need to claim it on their travel insurance.

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15 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I have no idea of their locale or if they are being held against their will, however if so I suspect they are enjoying extra rations today. Go visit the Leaderboard to see the genesis behind their great joy and why LB is narky today.

o9KB3.jpg

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6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Back on topic - I wonder if the punters on Greening will get their folding stuff back? Maybe they need to claim it on their travel insurance.

I doubt any refunds will be forthcoming LB. Having regard for Sir RNJ's fiscal approach, wanting to satisfy an actual versus brochure expectation experience, the leg finish line being a mere bees dick away and CV24's navigational history, then all the punters he placed on that truck had all obviously ticked the optional box in his tour application form marked "I want a go on the bricks but live experience". 

RNK is a very canny RO, albeit a bit of a ponce these days.

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why would they get their money back, they did it??

Aftica is going Northeast and combined with an over estimation of global warming lifting the tide issue, they had a good plan for a shortcut just 100 million years too early

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The crew looked pretty happy at their post beaching briefing. Maybe the finish line was explained differently to them and they think they won. As a side note what is the netting thing up the forestay.  

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1 hour ago, bdu98252 said:

The crew looked pretty happy at their post beaching briefing.

Mate some empathy and understanding about that crew is required. 

Like if you were the one in that crowd who was the junior bookkeeper who for the last 30 years has been working for a engineering company in Leeds that make the small bolt that goes at the bottom of bicycle front forks. The company since 1926 has been unsucessfully trying to secure a contract to make the other bolt for the other side of the fork.

Then on Xmas day last your wife left you for your brother who polishes those bolts. So after the marital split you get very depressed and start reading newspapers on account she ended up with the sole family Smartphone. By extension you start absorbing all the advertisements in the local rag, including ones about Ukranian super models who are turned on by British men with no job and no prospects.

To cut to the chase you throw every dollar you have left in the piggy bank towards going Clippering. 

In a lonely state you pretend to wave upon leaving Mother England but there is no one to wave back and ultimately you end up on a rocky shore in the middle of the night in some god fuck country. The same country where your forebears thought the Boars there were life threatening enough to go to war with them even though your own Queen was their cousin. 

All you can think about when getting off the boat is the images from David Attenborough specials you watched with the ex wife on your 8" TV in your shoebox sized apartment in Leeds about killer animals in this place that can bite a man's dick off at ten paces. Your cold and frightened.

You are then suddenly transported and sitting in the confines of a warm room drinking tea and being offered scones and for the first time in your life people fussing over you. You see your own face on local TV. You then start to believe your famous and that will lead to you thinking your first blow job, without having to wear a condom and from someone half your age who doesn't keep reminding you to put the rubbish bin out on Tuesday's, is just around the corner.

bdu no wonder their all looking pretty happy mate. 

Sir RKJ is a fuckin genius, the Clipper Race is the gift which keeps on giving, no matter the calamity.

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Looks like the crew can continue on other boats. Still awaiting the details on the investigation.

Quote

Mark Light reported: “It is important that an incident of this nature has a full investigation. The Greenings crew and Interim Skipper, Andy Woodruff, will be helping with that. We will make sure we get all the right information together in order to help any investigation going forwards.”

He added: “It is important for us to get the Greenings crew back into the Clipper Race. We have got several options going forwards and we’re helping them in lots of different ways so they can continue their Clipper Race with us.”

http://clipperroundtheworld.com/news/article/race-director-provides-update-on-greenings-crew

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17 hours ago, Tunnel Rat said:

I think the netting is designed to reduce the number of wraps that can be made around the forestay when using a spinnaker 

Yep it is a wrap stopper. They are designed in the absence of skill, to stop the kiting wrapping .

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Yep it is a wrap stopper. They are designed in the absence of skill, to stop the kiting wrapping .

Pretty much sums up this race to be honest.

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19 hours ago, stief said:

Looks like the crew can continue on other boats. Still awaiting the details on the investigation.

http://clipperroundtheworld.com/news/article/race-director-provides-update-on-greenings-crew

Good interview about the rescue and the upcoming investigation.
Not one word about how it happened.
My two cents of thought:

They didn't look at the map when it happened.
Auto pilot got a wrong waypoint.
The helmsman wanted to look at those strange lights waving at them at the shore.

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2 hours ago, schakel488 said:

Good interview about the rescue and the upcoming investigation.
Not one word about how it happened.
My two cents of thought:

They didn't look at the map when it happened.
Auto pilot got a wrong waypoint.
The helmsman wanted to look at those strange lights waving at them at the shore.

You'd fit in well with any of those, apart the autopilot theory, only because there aren't any. 

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Eh grounding incidents aren't that complicated. If there's no loss of rudder, power/sail - 9 times out of 10 it is a loss of situational awareness/navigation errors. On a fully crewed boat like this one, vast majority of the case the navigator plots the course below, helm does his/her job more focused on the wind. Someone/both don't communicate - in the dark - and you run aground.

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1 hour ago, stief said:

Sir Robin's report of the salvage progress; nothing yet about cause.

 

I can save everyone a lot of time summing up.

 

The fucking fucker's fucked, cos some useless fucker fucked up.

It's not complicated, let's not try to make it so.

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After the tragedies on the last Clipper I was stunned to find them able to get insurance cover for this race.  With this grounding, I'll be stunned again. I imagine the price is going to have to go up again! (from ~USD60k per person for a RTW ticket to ....)

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24 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

After the tragedies on the last Clipper I was stunned to find them able to get insurance cover for this race.  With this grounding, I'll be stunned again. I imagine the price is going to have to go up again! (from ~USD60k per person for a RTW ticket to ....)

60K . . .  deductible? Can't see each applicant paying/ being subsidized that much for a premium. 

edit [guess you mean the total price for a RTW ticket . . .  not just the insurance. DOH]

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18 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

After the tragedies on the last Clipper I was stunned to find them able to get insurance cover for this race.  With this grounding, I'll be stunned again. I imagine the price is going to have to go up again! (from ~USD60k per person for a RTW ticket to ....)

 

Were there any insurance exposure during the MOB incidents? Or are you guessing? Seems on par for participation waiver to be extremely specific and enforceable against estate that absent gross negligence on the part of the organizer, you're not getting damages.

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24 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

After the tragedies on the last Clipper I was stunned to find them able to get insurance cover for this race.  With this grounding, I'll be stunned again. I imagine the price is going to have to go up again! (from ~USD60k per person for a RTW ticket to ....)

What's a life worth these days? 5mil?

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47 minutes ago, stief said:

60K . . .  deductible? Can't see each applicant paying/ being subsidized that much for a premium. 

edit [guess you mean the total price for a RTW ticket . . .  not just the insurance. DOH]

Not the premium, -that's the actual entry fee for those going around the world on all legs,  and if I remember correctly they also need their own national or private health insurance.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

Were there any insurance exposure during the MOB incidents? Or are you guessing? Seems on par for participation waiver to be extremely specific and enforceable against estate that absent gross negligence on the part of the organizer, you're not getting damages.

waiver.  Hahahahahahah!

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

Were there any insurance exposure during the MOB incidents? Or are you guessing? Seems on par for participation waiver to be extremely specific and enforceable against estate that absent gross negligence on the part of the organizer, you're not getting damages.

Only one MOB, the other's head crushed by a flapping clew.  The reason there were never any court cases reported was because of the NDAs that come with big payoffs.  

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Just now, Miffy said:

It's a factual question. Thought you'll be interested. 

Always interested in facts, but on the law, you may note that there is an old saying amongst personal injury/wrongful death lawyers about liability waivers: "Not worth the bandages they're printed on."

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Miffy said:

 

Were there any insurance exposure during the MOB incidents? Or are you guessing? Seems on par for participation waiver to be extremely specific and enforceable against estate that absent gross negligence on the part of the organizer, you're not getting damages.

The MAIB report said that "lack of effective supervision featured in both accidents", and numerous reports - both internal and in the news (and here on SA) have detailed exactly that problem as a cause of other Clipper issues over the years.  To pretend that the Clipper doesn't know that their young, underpaid skippers leading dozens of unfit, inexperienced, older crews is a recipe for disaster and mayhem...defies common sense.  It's actually their model and every ex-Clipper skipper I've ever talked to has said some version of the same thing to me: "It's amazing people aren't dying and losing limbs every leg."

They may be overstating it, but no Clipper skipper or sailor has ever told me they felt safe and seamanlike on a Clipper 70.

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Young skippers? Don't know who you were talking to but most are in their 30's and several are in the 50's. It is a circus all right but a circus with a pretty good safety record considering were they are playing. More people pay to be guided up Everest each year and a few die- just as a few highly experienced climbers do each year. Shit happens. However the clipper organisation are highly professional and you can be sure they have very good legal advice. But it they ever want to leave their multinational law firm and start getting legal advise from a law student who now works part time on a sailing website, I am sure you will be the first they call.

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38 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Always interested in facts, but on the law, you may note that there is an old saying amongst personal injury/wrongful death lawyers about liability waivers: "Not worth the bandages they're printed on."

 

 

Never heard of the phrase. All I know is flag of the vessel, terms of the service agreement, specificity of the waiver can scare off two bit ambulance chasers in the US. 

Then again perhaps you're right and there's massive settlements with NDAs. The beauty of your claim is there's no way to validate whether it exists or not. 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

It is a circus all right but a circus with a pretty good safety record considering were they are playing.

LB you would know what the prep is like, but I gather it would be hard to better, particularly when the punters come from all corners of the orange. 

The platform is pretty bullet proof with small rigs. I recall when they joined a S2H some years back a 10' smaller Volvo 60 beat them in by a day. Going through the convergence zone must be fun, probably enough time to plant and pick a vegetable patch. (Alinguist if your stalking me here too, the convergence zone is like the skimmer box in your RC class). So obviously little that needs changing in that department except maybe reducing boat size and loads.

Crew mix is obviously dictated by the pool of punters that show up so only so much mix and match you can do there. The obvious solution to make it less incident prone is throwing in some paid hands. However that would dilute the amateur racing experience plus drive up the cost.

Safety nut a bit of hard one to crack then, save for putting them in a room wearing virtual reality goggles, sleep depriving them and throwing buckets of cold water containing frozen flying fish.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

They may be overstating it, but no Clipper skipper or sailor has ever told me they felt safe and seamanlike on a Clipper 70.

How many did you speak to? I can confidently say that several of us felt safe and seamanlike at least some of the time on the clipper 70.  You do tend to learn something over 40,000 miles. Or even just the first 1,000.  Though I don't doubt the 70s with their wide open spaces are tougher on the crew than the earlier boats. 

 

 

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You should think of the Clipper boats as  small commercial sailing ships rather than yachts. 

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Not wishing to be pedantic or anything, but looking at their 'map' I think they should check the location of Seattle before setting off on leg 6/7.

Just sayin'.

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More than likely one of the crew were busy updating their blog and facebook pages instead of looking at the plotter. Or the lighthouses. Or the heading. Or the depth sounder. Or the RADAR. Or the...

I am sure that footage will emerge. The chances that one of the crew weren't filming or at least taking a selfie when they hit would be pretty slim. One thing most clipper crew have in common is that documenting their adventure is just as important as enjoying their adventure. 

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46 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I am sure that footage will emerge.

Maybe, but not yet via twitter hashtag #clipperrace . Surprising, since crew members had the temptation to break the inside story to their followers once within range of the hotel wifi.

Here's some footage from earlier

Now that 6 members will continue on HotelPlanner, I'm sure the crew there will have plenty to discuss on the rail. Maybe some snippets will show up on the crew diary page.

http://clipperroundtheworld.com/crew/crew-diaries/filter/hotelplannercom/race3-leg3

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

I am sure that footage will emerge

 

1 hour ago, stief said:

Maybe, but not yet via twitter hashtag #clipperrace . Surprising, since crew members had the temptation to break the inside story to their followers once within range of the hotel wifi.

stief I think as climbing over the rail they were reminded of the, "If we crash or someone's dies" Socrates Clause in their tour contract. Germans call it the Shultz Clause.

quote-one-thing-only-i-know-and-that-is-that-i-know-nothing-socrates-351591.jpg

quote-i-hear-nothing-i-see-nothing-i-know-nothing-john-banner-62-17-90.jpg

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1 hour ago, stief said:

Maybe, but not yet via twitter hashtag #clipperrace . Surprising, since crew members had the temptation to break the inside story to their followers once within range of the hotel wifi.

Here's some footage from earlier

Now that 6 members will continue on HotelPlanner, I'm sure the crew there will have plenty to discuss on the rail. Maybe some snippets will show up on the crew diary page.

http://clipperroundtheworld.com/crew/crew-diaries/filter/hotelplannercom/race3-leg3

329 miles is pretty good going in anyone's view. That clip didn't get me racing to get my money down for the next leg however...

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

More than likely one of the crew were busy updating their blog and facebook pages instead of looking at the plotter. Or the lighthouses. Or the heading. Or the depth sounder. Or the RADAR. Or the...

I am sure that footage will emerge. The chances that one of the crew weren't filming or at least taking a selfie when they hit would be pretty slim. One thing most clipper crew have in common is that documenting their adventure is just as important as enjoying their adventure. 

So true! Why do folks need to document their life instead of being in the moment? If you only get one chance at life, live it, don't film it. Tomorrow's film is wasted bits on some storage device that will never be retrieved and will slowly fade away. Cameras and phones should be band from the boat. Relive it in your mind, not on your phone. No wonder people can't remember shit these days. They don't have to. Enjoy it. Live it! [/rant off]

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12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

stief I think as climbing over the rail they were reminded of the, "If we crash or someone's dies" Socrates Clause in their tour contract. Germans call it the Shultz Clause.

quote-one-thing-only-i-know-and-that-is-that-i-know-nothing-socrates-351591.jpg

quote-i-hear-nothing-i-see-nothing-i-know-nothing-john-banner-62-17-90.jpg

 

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Grounding occurred at 2300 local time. Unless they were using illumination or some fancy nvg camera, doubt there will be good footage. 

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5 minutes ago, Varan said:

So true! Why do folks need to document their life instead of being in the moment? If you only get one chance at life, live it, don't film it. Tomorrow's film is wasted bits on some storage device that will never be retrieved and will slowly fade away. Cameras and phones should be band from the boat. Relive it in your mind, not on your phone. No wonder people can't remember shit these days. They don't have to. Enjoy it. Live it! [/rant off]

5e32a19383f3509141f6021608213411--funny-girl-memes-its-funny.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Grounding occurred at 2300 local time. Unless they were using illumination or some fancy nvg camera, doubt there will be good footage. 

Kinda dark like this?

 

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Exactly. The VOR65 media suite includes nonvisible spectrum illumination lamps and low light camera . Not exactly amateur photography here. 

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12 hours ago, Varan said:

So true! Why do folks need to document their life instead of being in the moment? If you only get one chance at life, live it, don't film it. Tomorrow's film is wasted bits on some storage device that will never be retrieved and will slowly fade away. Cameras and phones should be band from the boat. Relive it in your mind, not on your phone. No wonder people can't remember shit these days. They don't have to. Enjoy it. Live it! [/rant off]

photos.png

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