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Shootist Jeff

Why do we actively oppose the President?

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I was having a discussion with SWMBO last night, and her being a non-Murican, doesn't understand the US's propensity for actively tearing down, to the point of sabotage, the sitting president.  I was trying to explain it a little but quickly realized that I don't completely understand it either.  

Taking shots at the POTUS has always been part & parcel of the American experience.  We pride ourselves on being able to tell the preznit or a congress critter to go fuck themselves and not worry about ending up in prison.

I think it really started with Clinton by the GOP and Newt with endless investigations.  Then the Dems couldn't get over Bush and hanging chads and actively tried to undermine anything he did.  Then the GOP retaliated against Obama.  And now it continues unabated and probably even worse with Trump.

My thought is "you lost, get over it".  And that applies to whichever party is in office.  I felt that way about Bill - I thought the endless attacks were silly.  It was just a blow job FFS.  Who cares?  I felt that way about Obama too.  I disagreed with a lot of what he did, but I gave him credit where credit was due.  I currently think trump is a total buffoon.  But so what?  What is hanging on every word, every tweet, every photo op going to change?  Why not give the guy a chance and see what happens?  Its congress's job to oppose him and check him if he gets out of control.  This constant harping daily by the press is doing nothing but pissing half of America off at the other half.  Yeah we might disagree politically or philosophically.  But it doesn't have to be so fucking nasty all the time.  And so what if he's a buffoon?  He will be temporary and be gone in a few years.  Offer up a better candidate and you won't have to bitch so much.  But you lost.  I felt exactly the same way when happy crackerJack and his elk of cacophonous bitchy children did nothing but criticize every word, every look, every nuance of body language by obama.  It was BS then and its BS now.  

There was a time in the not too distant past when we didn't care what the president did daily, what color his turds were that day or what he had at snack time.  Every once in a while he would come out and make a speech in the rose garden about something important and we listened with interest because usually the president doesn't speak unless it was really important.  Now, we can't get away from the dude.  Frankly I think we are fatigued by it all and its making us all bitchy.  I blame the press for this and frankly I hate it.  I don't think everything the prezzy does every single fucking say is newsworthy.  Is him golfing with Abe, newsworthy?  Not unless trump bashed his skull in with his new gold driver.  But otherwise, POTI are expected to go play golf with other heads of state.  FFS, its in the job description.

So let the guy do his job and if you don't like the results in 4 years, fire him and find someone else.  But unless you put up a better candidate and win, STFU and let the guy get on with it.  And I will say this exact same thing when there is a DemocRAT in the WH and happysnackjack comes out of hiding and Dog and TM start complaining again.  

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In part because of the damage that an irresponsible POTUS can do in a very short amount of time.

In general I agree with you, but Trump is different from the others.... Even Dubya..... More like Cheney than anyone else.

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What's the old saying?  "Evil can only occur when good people don't oppose it, or raise their voices"....

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15 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

In part because of the damage that an irresponsible POTUS can do in a very short amount of time.

In general I agree with you, but Trump is different from the others.... Even Dubya..... More like Cheney than anyone else.

Really?  What has he done that's been so evil?  Yes, he's an unmitigated and total buffoon and an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth.  But so far, he's the only president who HASN'T gone to war of the last three.  He hasn't carpet bombed San Juan and he hasn't invaded Canada (not that they don't deserve it).  Just saying.  

 

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I don't actively oppose any President. I want our President to succeed.  That does not mean that I will not speak out if I disagree with his policy choices. That does not mean that if he or members of his administration break the law, it shouldn't be investigated handled within our system of justice. 

This particular President hits for the cycle, given Russian meddling in our election that now sees us with a special counsel investigating and charging people. His policies that have any chance of passage, with the exception of bailing out of the TPP are entirely for the benefit of plutocrats. The ones that are pure fantasy, like the wall, are for the benefit of racists and morons who can't be bothered to read about the actual flow of immigration. To top that off, the Pride of New York is a lying, pussy grabbing piece of shit, with a 20-word vocabulary and a 10-cent head. I could go through a laundry list of character flaws that set him below any President we have ever had, but it is more expeditious for all of us to just say that he has no character. 

I'd love to see his presidency be successful, but it won't be, because of him, not because of anyone actively opposed.  

 

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33 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Really?  What has he done that's been so evil?  Yes, he's an unmitigated and total buffoon and an embarrassment every time he opens his mouth.  But so far, he's the only president who HASN'T gone to war of the last three.  He hasn't carpet bombed San Juan and he hasn't invaded Canada (not that they don't deserve it).  Just saying.  

 

Our previous President did not go off to war. He was left cleaning up the wars started by his predecessors. You may recall he intended to get more deeply involved in a war that was already ongoing, largely meddled in by his predecessor, and unfortunately made a couple of strong public statements that he later had to walk back because an opposition Congress refused him permission; for which has ever since been called both a pussy and an an unConstitutional power-grabber.

Short memory, eh?

-DSK

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Back in the day, #1 got a lot of crap too. Our country was more or less founded on telling rulers to go f themselves.

 

He was accused of having an overly monarchical style and was criticized for his declaration of neutrality in overseas conflicts. Thomas Jefferson was among the most critical of Washington in the press, and John Adams recalled that after the Jay Treaty, the presidential mansion “was surrounded by innumerable multitudes, from day to day buzzing, demanding war against England, cursing Washington.”

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11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Our previous President did not go off to war. He was left cleaning up the wars started by his predecessors. You may recall he intended to get more deeply involved in a war that was already ongoing, largely meddled in by his predecessor, and unfortunately made a couple of strong public statements that he later had to walk back because an opposition Congress refused him permission; for which has ever since been called both a pussy and an an unConstitutional power-grabber.

Short memory, eh?

-DSK

Not short, just biased to the right! LOL!

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11 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Our previous President did not go off to war. He was left cleaning up the wars started by his predecessors. You may recall he intended to get more deeply involved in a war that was already ongoing, largely meddled in by his predecessor, and unfortunately made a couple of strong public statements that he later had to walk back because an opposition Congress refused him permission; for which has ever since been called both a pussy and an an unConstitutional power-grabber.

Short memory, eh?

-DSK

Short memory?  Libya?  Really?

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I was having a discussion with SWMBO last night, and her being a non-Murican, doesn't understand the US's propensity for actively tearing down, to the point of sabotage, the sitting president.  I was trying to explain it a little but quickly realized that I don't completely understand it either.  

Taking shots at the POTUS has always been part & parcel of the American experience.  We pride ourselves on being able to tell the preznit or a congress critter to go fuck themselves and not worry about ending up in prison.

Trump is different - and dangerous to both your country and the world.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Our previous President did not go off to war. He was left cleaning up the wars started by his predecessors. You may recall he intended to get more deeply involved in a war that was already ongoing, largely meddled in by his predecessor, and unfortunately made a couple of strong public statements that he later had to walk back because an opposition Congress refused him permission; for which has ever since been called both a pussy and an an unConstitutional power-grabber.

Short memory, eh?

-DSK

Short memory?  Libya?  Really?

BANGHAZI MF'ers !!!!!!!!!!

Why hasn't Crooked Hillary been investigated for this? Why isn't Crooked Obama behind bars right now ??!?!!

Yes, short memory.

Really

-DSK

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The sick part is that it is the same-same no matter which party is in power...all three branches. Business as usual. Rob the treasury. Kill innocents all over the world. Trample on civil rights. Distract the voters with meaningless antics. Allegiance only to the massively wealthy. Same-same.

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I personally think that opposition to the current power structure is a good thing - to the extent that it's about ideas and objectives focused on the best for the country.  Such principled opposition ensures that opposing perspectives are voiced, and if the party in power is able to address those perspectives, unity and support are achieved. 

What we have instead is personal vilification of the PARTY in power, extended to every individual who isn't aligned with that opposition, focused upon tearing down the party in power.  That's never helpful - but, it sells ad space. 

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Jeff, the "constant harping daily by the press" has been FOX News's platform since before Hillary was on the National Stage. And when Obama was prez, that was the first reaction to be expected from that fine institution. So if your intent was to tell Americans that they need to support their prez in a show of bipartisan unity, you are about 15 years to late, ever since invading the wrong country on false pretenses led us down the rabbit holes of war in the ME and beyond. 

And, please don't forget that we are now bombing in Sudan. That's new under our esteemed #45, whose administration has been marked by more incompetence and outright opposition to American traditions and governmental intent than any in my lifetime. Sorry, but when the EPA is run by the industries it is supposed to regulate, when the banking sector gets the regulations and tax proposals it desires for increased profits at a time when the income gap threatens to make destitute whole segments of our society, then active opposition is indeed what I will choose.

He is defunding many of the institutions I think are responsible for the smooth running of our country, has numerous senior figures with legitimate, historical, and clandestine contacts and relationships with a foreign power historically our enemy. His choices for leading Commerce, Education, and numerous other departments seems related to the size of their bank account, not their managerial excellence, and I do not want an oligarchy empowered in this country. I can't understand why you think I should acquiesce to his psychological deficiencies and low knowledge state with deference.

If you could bring this message of kumbaya while a Democrat is in power, then I'd listen today. But you are in general more partisan that your post above lets on. We all know your preferences and are now dealing with the bald face irony you propose is sincere. Whatever. 

Resistance to the Gropenführer is rapidly becoming bipartisan, legal and global. Get onboard if you want. Or remain neutral and support his misogyny, incompetence, corruption, demagoguery and the other myriad flaws of his leadership. Your choice. But don't tell Americans to stand by him.

 

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I don't oppose the President per se. 

I oppose the rich getting richer at the expense of the rest of us.

I oppose trashing the planet.

i oppose discrimination.

I oppose crony capitalism.   

I oppose deficit spending that isn't a direct investment in America with a plausible return, excepting a basic safety net..

I oppose bombing or meddling in other countries.

I oppose other countries meddling in our politics.

I oppose a military larger then needed for defense of American flagged ships, treaty commitments and protecting American territory (2% GDP)

I oppose mass murder in our modern shooting gallery.

I oppose substandard education based on parents' gullibility and' income.

As soon as the President opposes one of these things I will support him.    

 

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26 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I personally think that opposition to the current power structure is a good thing - to the extent that it's about ideas and objectives focused on the best for the country.  Such principled opposition ensures that opposing perspectives are voiced, and if the party in power is able to address those perspectives, unity and support are achieved. 

What we have instead is personal vilification of the PARTY in power, extended to every individual who isn't aligned with that opposition, focused upon tearing down the party in power.  That's never helpful - but, it sells ad space. 

Every gov't needs an opposition party. Serves a bunch of purposes.... rallies the disaffected to a  less harmful channel, breeds good ideas outside the status quo, serves a s a check against corruption and tyranny. The phrase "loyal opposition" literally meant (in the olden days, like before 1800) that the opposition party wanted different policies but were loyal to the monarch.

Today, parties are only loyal to themselves. Placing party above country is almost uniform among Republicans, and it's too common in the Democratic office-holders as well although not as vigorously supported by the voters themselves. If the Democratic Party leadership can get it's shit together and get it's own media channels, it can become totally common there too.

 

2 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Jeff, the "constant harping daily by the press" has been FOX News's platform since before Hillary was on the National Stage. And when Obama was prez, that was the first reaction to be expected from that fine institution. So if your intent was to tell Americans that they need to support their prez in a show of bipartisan unity, you are about 15 years to late, ever since invading the wrong country on false pretenses led us down the rabbit holes of war in the ME and beyond. 

...    ...    ...    ...

Huh.

Never were around the Birchers much, were you? American know-nothing-ism and spiteful, disloyal oppositon is nothing new. In fact you might say that the Founding Fathers were a "disloyal opposition" to the Crown gov't of their time. And tar & feathers were pretty hateful.

But I think it's gotten way out of hand. We have a whole political party cheering at the destruction of the country, while hoping that somehow they'll actually end up better off. Just like people on the Titanic were convinced the ship couldn't possibly be sinking.

-DSK

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9 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Jeff, the "constant harping daily by the press" has been FOX News's platform since before Hillary was on the National Stage. And when Obama was prez, that was the first reaction to be expected from that fine institution. So if your intent was to tell Americans that they need to support their prez in a show of bipartisan unity, you are about 15 years to late, ever since invading the wrong country on false pretenses led us down the rabbit holes of war in the ME and beyond. 

And, please don't forget that we are now bombing in Sudan. That's new under our esteemed #45, whose administration has been marked by more incompetence and outright opposition to American traditions and governmental intent than any in my lifetime. Sorry, but when the EPA is run by the industries it is supposed to regulate, when the banking sector gets the regulations and tax proposals it desires for increased profits at a time when the income gap threatens to make destitute whole segments of our society, then active opposition is indeed what I will choose.

He is defunding many of the institutions I think are responsible for the smooth running of our country, has numerous senior figures with legitimate, historical, and clandestine contacts and relationships with a foreign power historically our enemy. His choices for leading Commerce, Education, and numerous other departments seems related to the size of their bank account, not their managerial excellence, and I do not want an oligarchy empowered in this country. I can't understand why you think I should acquiesce to his psychological deficiencies and low knowledge state with deference.

If you could bring this message of kumbaya while a Democrat is in power, then I'd listen today. But you are in general more partisan that your post above lets on. We all know your preferences and are now dealing with the bald face irony you propose is sincere. Whatever. 

Resistance to the Gropenführer is rapidly becoming bipartisan, legal and global. Get onboard if you want. Or remain neutral and support his misogyny, incompetence, corruption, demagoguery and the other myriad flaws of his leadership. Your choice. But don't tell Americans to stand by him.

 

 

Well spoken, I feel similar.......

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5 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So let the guy do his job and if you don't like the results in 4 years, fire him and find someone else.  But unless you put up a better candidate and win, STFU and let the guy get on with it.  And I will say this exact same thing when there is a DemocRAT in the WH and happysnackjack comes out of hiding and Dog and TM start complaining again.  

Hahahahaaaaaaa.

So he's a total megalomaniac nut case, colluding with the Russians, personally profiting from the position, can't read pussy-grabber, but Jeff thinks everyone should go with that.

Uh Huh.  Says more about rusted-on Republicans and Jeff than Trump.  That is the problem, not a symptom ... that is the problem.

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Does ANYTHING that goes on here actually hinder or help Trump?  (Not that I don't dig the whole gestalt.B))

In an NKVD world, Twitter mutates into a virtual stage: expose and denounce, but in transactional terms you reveal only yourself.

Leave Trump alone? By this logic ^, I AM leaving Trump alone- but will he leave us alone?   Are promises merely hyperbole?

Koestler, Kafka, Paine, de Toqueville or Orwell............   

 

 

 

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Speaking of opposing Trump -

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358931-legal-scholars-trump-acting-like-a-dictator-by-blocking-twitter

Law professors are accusing President Trump of acting like a dictator by blocking critics from his Twitter account.

Georgetown Law’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection (ICAP) filed a friend of the court brief on behalf of seven professors Monday in support of the Columbia Knight First Amendment Institute’s lawsuit challenging Trump’s ability to block opponents from his @realDonaldTrump Twitter feed.

The group, which includes Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the University of California Berkeley School of Law, said “such practices are a familiar playbook for authoritarian regimes.”

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5 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I was having a discussion with SWMBO last night, and her being a non-Murican, doesn't understand the US's propensity for actively tearing down, to the point of sabotage, the sitting president. 

You and SWMBO should try traveling to Italy, or anywhere in South America, or Israel, or...

oh, wait - those are the countries where beating up the president or PM is real sport. 

How about anywhere in Africa, where they don't just do the beating verbally...they do it with army coups...

Pretty silly thread.

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

You and SWMBO should try traveling to Italy, or anywhere in South America, or Israel, or...

oh, wait - those are the countries where beating up the president or PM is real sport. 

How about anywhere in Africa, where they don't just do the beating verbally...they do it with army coups...

Pretty silly thread.

Total Hijack - I didn't know you had a second career as the frontman for X-Ambassadors.   You shouldn't hide the good things that you do. 

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28 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Total Hijack - I didn't know you had a second career as the frontman for X-Ambassadors.   You shouldn't hide the good things that you do. 

Actually I moonlight as Harris's body double

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Jeff, 

Here's a question for you, why doesn't Trump have greater support from the military, particularly the officers?  I thought it was routine that the military blindly supports any Republican president?  

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2017/10/23/military-times-poll-what-you-really-think-about-trump/

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I personally think that opposition to the current power structure is a good thing - to the extent that it's about ideas and objectives focused on the best for the country.  Such principled opposition ensures that opposing perspectives are voiced, and if the party in power is able to address those perspectives, unity and support are achieved. 

What we have instead is personal vilification of the PARTY in power, extended to every individual who isn't aligned with that opposition, focused upon tearing down the party in power.  That's never helpful - but, it sells ad space. 

A party that would elevate a creature like Trump to the Presidency deserves every bit of the vilification it gets.

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

A party that would elevate a creature like Trump to the Presidency deserves every bit of the vilification it gets.

As does a party that fielded what is most likely the only candidate who could have lost to Trump.    The point?  The Parties suck.  Which sucks worse is a matter of timing and perspective. 

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Oppose policy with alternatives. Take a cue from the D of I. Don't oppose persons or offices for transient reasons. The idea that America hangs in the balance is poppycock. The loons on the right said the same about Obama. The sky is falling clucks opposing Trump look and sound just like them. If I had won, sniff, the oppo to me would have been epic. 

My loss  gave me a much needed bitch slapping. I see a lot of things differently now. 

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For every other POTUS it has been safe to let him do the job. 

Gropenfuhrer is a clear and present danger. 

He seems to do something beyond the previous standards of acceptable buffoonery on a daily basis. 

Virtually ANY single day of his performances applied to ANY previous President would have brought the man down. 

But Gropenfuhrer has a new sub-believable offense every day. Society has grown numb to his asinine behavior and incompetent performance. 

Imagine if Eisenhower had stood up in Japan and reminded the Japanese how we nuked them? (Or any other President)

Those if us  who continue to remind the population of the man's total inability to do the job are our last hope. If we stop, America is Doomed. 

 

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Jeff, 

Here's a question for you, why doesn't Trump have greater support from the military, particularly the officers?  I thought it was routine that the military blindly supports any Republican president?  

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2017/10/23/military-times-poll-what-you-really-think-about-trump/

You thought wrong.  There are many people in the military that aren't Republicans.

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42 minutes ago, Hillary said:

Oppose policy with alternatives. Take a cue from the D of I. Don't oppose persons or offices for transient reasons. The idea that America hangs in the balance is poppycock. The loons on the right said the same about Obama. The sky is falling clucks opposing Trump look and sound just like them. If I had won, sniff, the oppo to me would have been epic. 

My loss  gave me a much needed bitch slapping. I see a lot of things differently now. 

OK, you are a fucking idiot.  Trump is a corrupt, narcissistic, bumbling, idiot.   You can't compare Trump to any other president in US history and probably against any leader of a large powerful, democratic country in the world in modern history.  Trump has set the bar so low, it is unlikely there will ever be another leader so incompetent.  It just boggles the mind.

 

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5 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

OK, you are a fucking idiot.  Trump is a corrupt, narcissistic, bumbling, idiot.   You can't compare Trump to any other president in US history and probably against any leader of a large powerful, democratic country in the world in modern history.  Trump has set the bar so low, it is unlikely there will ever be another leader so incompetent.  It just boggles the mind.

 

Please tell us how WE really feel, Soak_ed!!!

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2 hours ago, Sean said:

Speaking of opposing Trump -

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358931-legal-scholars-trump-acting-like-a-dictator-by-blocking-twitter

Law professors are accusing President Trump of acting like a dictator by blocking critics from his Twitter account.

Georgetown Law’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection (ICAP) filed a friend of the court brief on behalf of seven professors Monday in support of the Columbia Knight First Amendment Institute’s lawsuit challenging Trump’s ability to block opponents from his @realDonaldTrump Twitter feed.

The group, which includes Erwin Chemerinsky, dean of the University of California Berkeley School of Law, said “such practices are a familiar playbook for authoritarian regimes.”

Remember when a President acting all Imperial was seen as a bad thing?

"I'm the only one that matters."

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I can't believe Jeff is this stupid.  as Eva Dent

edit: The only POTUS I have previously actively protested was Dubya and that was totally because of the BS invasion of Iraq.  Trump hasn't killed as many Americans but he's barely gotten started.

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16 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Remember when a President acting all Imperial was seen as a bad thing?

"I'm the only one that matters."

"I'm the decider."

I'm going to take action in Syria. "Acting like an emperor, without Congressional approval." Congress, give me approval to take action in Syria. "Leading from behind!"

R(2)D(2), the Party Droid. 

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I was having a discussion with SWMBO last night, and her being a non-Murican, doesn't understand the US's propensity for actively tearing down, to the point of sabotage, the sitting president.  I was trying to explain it a little but quickly realized that I don't completely understand it either.  

Taking shots at the POTUS has always been part & parcel of the American experience.  We pride ourselves on being able to tell the preznit or a congress critter to go fuck themselves and not worry about ending up in prison.

I think it really started with Clinton by the GOP and Newt with endless investigations.  Then the Dems couldn't get over Bush and hanging chads and actively tried to undermine anything he did.  Then the GOP retaliated against Obama.  And now it continues unabated and probably even worse with Trump.

My thought is "you lost, get over it".  And that applies to whichever party is in office.  I felt that way about Bill - I thought the endless attacks were silly.  It was just a blow job FFS.  Who cares?  I felt that way about Obama too.  I disagreed with a lot of what he did, but I gave him credit where credit was due.  I currently think trump is a total buffoon.  But so what?  What is hanging on every word, every tweet, every photo op going to change?  Why not give the guy a chance and see what happens?  Its congress's job to oppose him and check him if he gets out of control.  This constant harping daily by the press is doing nothing but pissing half of America off at the other half.  Yeah we might disagree politically or philosophically.  But it doesn't have to be so fucking nasty all the time.  And so what if he's a buffoon?  He will be temporary and be gone in a few years.  Offer up a better candidate and you won't have to bitch so much.  But you lost.  I felt exactly the same way when happy crackerJack and his elk of cacophonous bitchy children did nothing but criticize every word, every look, every nuance of body language by obama.  It was BS then and its BS now.  

There was a time in the not too distant past when we didn't care what the president did daily, what color his turds were that day or what he had at snack time.  Every once in a while he would come out and make a speech in the rose garden about something important and we listened with interest because usually the president doesn't speak unless it was really important.  Now, we can't get away from the dude.  Frankly I think we are fatigued by it all and its making us all bitchy.  I blame the press for this and frankly I hate it.  I don't think everything the prezzy does every single fucking say is newsworthy.  Is him golfing with Abe, newsworthy?  Not unless trump bashed his skull in with his new gold driver.  But otherwise, POTI are expected to go play golf with other heads of state.  FFS, its in the job description.

So let the guy do his job and if you don't like the results in 4 years, fire him and find someone else.  But unless you put up a better candidate and win, STFU and let the guy get on with it.  And I will say this exact same thing when there is a DemocRAT in the WH and happysnackjack comes out of hiding and Dog and TM start complaining again.  

Wherever she is from, just look into that places history for dissent from whatever existing power that be-ed. It's universal for people to buck authority it's only a matter of degree to which that bucking is permitted. 

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If you can stomach it,  Read 'Win Bigly' (Persuasion in a world where facts don't matter), by Scott Adams.  (Of Dilbert fame!)

This book represents the 'Trump is a genius' point of view.  If I might quote, from page 2:

"Trump is what I call a master persuader.  That means he has weapons-grade persuasion skills.  Based on my background in that field, I recognized his talents early.  And after watching him in action during the election, I have to say that Trump is the most persuasive human I have ever observed."

And Scott is a trained hypnotist (:o) as he keeps on and keeps on and keeps on and keeps on (you are getting sleepy! :lol:) and keeps on and keeps on saying.  Trump has taken on an act, a persona, to get the results he wants.  We can only watch helpless as he rolls right over our uncomprehending selves,  reprogramming us as he goes, "because humans think they are rational, and they think they understand reality.  But they are wrong on both counts." (pg 35).  

It goes on. Scott even deigns to tell us what our Forum Tells are.  (Cognitive Dissonance, don't you know....)

So anytime any of us try to change anything a pro Trump supporter believes or says, you will only spark a knowing look, a smirk, the condescension of superior knowledge, a superior being sculpted by the absolute certainty that they have hitched their wagon to the best star.  

It's so fucking obvious, after all.

And if you'll just allow yourself to sink into it, it feels wonderful.  It's kind of the like the ending to 'Clockwork Orange'.  Oh yes, my Droogs, my Malchiki -Wikis.  ;)  Like a little bit of the old Moloko it is.....

 

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3 hours ago, Lark said:

I don't oppose the President per se. 

I oppose the rich getting richer at the expense of the rest of us.

I oppose trashing the planet.

i oppose discrimination.

I oppose crony capitalism.   

I oppose deficit spending that isn't a direct investment in America with a plausible return, excepting a basic safety net..

I oppose bombing or meddling in other countries.

I oppose other countries meddling in our politics.

I oppose a military larger then needed for defense of American flagged ships, treaty commitments and protecting American territory (2% GDP)

I oppose mass murder in our modern shooting gallery.

I oppose substandard education based on parents' gullibility and' income.

As soon as the President opposes one of these things I will support him.    

 

All of the above.

Plus: 

I oppose pussy grabbing

I oppose habitual lying

I oppose knee jerk hostility to criticism

I oppose narcissism

 

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2 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Jeff, 

Here's a question for you, why doesn't Trump have greater support from the military, particularly the officers?  I thought it was routine that the military blindly supports any Republican president?  

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2017/10/23/military-times-poll-what-you-really-think-about-trump/

Not who has specifically asked "Why have nuclear bombs if we can't use them?"  And has his senior advisors - generals all - to strategize on how to keep his stubby fingers off the switch on the nuclear football.

He terrifies the military.

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

If you can stomach it,  Read 'Win Bigly' (Persuasion in a world where facts don't matter), by Scott Adams.  (Of Dilbert fame!)

This book represents the 'Trump is a genius' point of view.  If I might quote, from page 2:

"Trump is what I call a master persuader.  That means he has weapons-grade persuasion skills.  Based on my background in that field, I recognized his talents early.  And after watching him in action during the election, I have to say that Trump is the most persuasive human I have ever observed."

And Scott is a trained hypnotist (:o) as he keeps on and keeps on and keeps on and keeps on (you are getting sleepy! :lol:) and keeps on and keeps on saying.  Trump has taken on an act, a persona, to get the results he wants.  We can only watch helpless as he rolls right over our uncomprehending selves,  reprogramming us as he goes, "because humans think they are rational, and they think they understand reality.  But they are wrong on both counts." (pg 35).  

It goes on. Scott even deigns to tell us what our Forum Tells are.  (Cognitive Dissonance, don't you know....)

So anytime any of us try to change anything a pro Trump supporter believes or says, you will only spark a knowing look, a smirk, the condescension of superior knowledge, a superior being sculpted by the absolute certainty that they have hitched their wagon to the best star.  

It's so fucking obvious, after all.

And if you'll just allow yourself to sink into it, it feels wonderful.  It's kind of the like the ending to 'Clockwork Orange'.  Oh yes, my Droogs, my Malchiki -Wikis.  ;)  Like a little bit of the old Moloko it is.....

 

It's all horror show scarry, it is.

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7 hours ago, soak_ed said:

OK, you are a fucking idiot.  Trump is a corrupt, narcissistic, bumbling, idiot.   You can't compare Trump to any other president in US history and probably against any leader of a large powerful, democratic country in the world in modern history.  Trump has set the bar so low, it is unlikely there will ever be another leader so incompetent.  It just boggles the mind.

 

Same mantra as the last time and time before that etc ... just a different party. The sad part is you believe your own propaganda. 

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5 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Well things have been nasty for a bit, not just the last few months.

0*qfbPf2hOJs6enT5Y.jpg

I got shit like this from "friends" for 8 years :(

 

But mommy Billy did it first .... I can't believe hat is how you want to sound.

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Here's an exercise.

List 10 qualities of what YOU consider a good leader of a major power.

Then list Trump against them.

I have to walk Boo, I'll do mine when I come back. 

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8 hours ago, soak_ed said:

OK, you are a fucking idiot.  Trump is a corrupt, narcissistic, bumbling, idiot.   You can't compare Trump to any other president in US history and probably against any leader of a large powerful, democratic country in the world in modern history.  Trump has set the bar so low, it is unlikely there will ever be another leader so incompetent.  It just boggles the mind.

 

Yeah but Jeffy thinks you all should 'give him a go'.  He actually thinks Trump has the qualities to succeed, if you all just give him some space.

Jeffy is a fuckwit, this thread is the best example I have seen to support that view.

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OK..pick 10 from here..or all you can sincerely apply to trump

  1. Sincere
  2. Honest
  3. Understanding
  4. Loyal
  5. Truthful
  6. Trustworthy
  7. Intelligent
  8. Dependable
  9. Open-Minded
  10. Thoughtful
  11. Wise
  12. Considerate
  13. Good-Natured
  14. Reliable
  15. Mature
  16. Warm
  17. Earnest
  18. Kind
  19. Friendly
  20. Kind-Hearted
  21. Happy
  22. Clean
  23. Interesting
  24. Unselfish
  25. Good-Humored
  26. Honorable
  27. Humorous
  28. Responsible
  29. Cheerful
  30.  Trustful
  31. Warm-Hearted
  32. Broad-Minded
  33. Gentle
  34. Well-Spoken
  35. Educated
  36. Reasonable
  37.  Companionable
  38. Likable
  39. Trusting
  40. Clever
  41. Pleasant
  42. Courteous
  43. Quick-Witted
  44. Tactful
  45. Helpful
  46. Appreciative
  47. Imaginative
  48. Outstanding
  49. Self-Disciplined
  50. Brilliant
  51. Enthusiastic
  52. Level-Headed
  53. Polite
  54. Original
  55. Smart
  56. Forgiving
  57. Sharp-Witted
  58. Well-Read
  59. Ambitious
  60. Bright
  61. Respectful
  62. Efficient
  63. Good-Tempered
  64. Grateful
  65. Conscientious
  66. Resourceful
  67. Alert
  68. Good
  69. Witty
  70. Clear-Headed
  71. Kindly
  72. Admirable
  73. Patient
  74. Talented
  75. Perceptive
  76.  Spirited
  77. Sportsmanlike
  78. Well-Mannered
  79. Cooperative
  80. Ethical
  81. Intellectual
  82. Versatile
  83. Capable
  84. Courageous
  85. Constructive
  86. Productive
  87. Progressive
  88. Individualistic
  89. Observant
  90.  Ingenious
  91.  Lively
  92. Neat
  93. Punctual
  94. Logical
  95. Prompt
  96. Accurate
  97. Sensible
  98. Creative
  99. Self-Reliant
  100. Tolerant
  101. Amusing
  102. Clean-Cut
  103.  Generous
  104.  Sympathetic
  105. Energetic
  106. High-Spirited
  107. Self-Controlled
  108. Tender
  109. Active
  110. Independent
  111. Respectable
  112. Inventive
  113. Wholesome
  114. Congenial
  115. Cordial
  116. Experienced
  117. Attentive
  118. Cultured
  119. Frank
  120. Purposeful
  121. Decent
  122. Diligent
  123. Realist
  124. Eager
  125. Poised
  126. Competent
  127. Realistic
  128. Amiable
  129. Optimistic
  130. Vigorous
  131. Entertaining
  132. Adventurous
  133. Vivacious
  134. Composed
  135. Relaxed
  136. Romantic
  137. Proficient
  138. Rational
  139. Skillful
  140. Enterprising
  141. Gracious
  142. Able
  143. Nice
  144. Agreeable
  145. Skilled
  146. Curious
  147. Modern
  148. Charming
  149. Sociable
  150. Modest
  151. Decisive
  152. Humble
  153. Tidy
  154. Popular
  155. Upright
  156. Literary
  157. Practical
  158. Light-Hearted
  159.  Well-Bred
  160. Refined
  161. Self-Confident
  162. Cool-Headed
  163. Studious
  164. Adventuresome
  165. Discreet
  166. Informal
  167.  Thorough
  168.  Exuberant
  169. Inquisitive
  170. Easygoing
  171.  Outgoing
  172. Self-Sufficient
  173. Casual
  174. Consistent
  175.  Moral
  176. Self-Assured
  177. Untiring
  178. Hopeful
  179. Calm
  180. Strong-Minded
  181. Positive
  182. Confident
  183. Artistic
  184. Precise
  185. Scientific
  186. Orderly
  187. Social
  188. Direct
  189. Careful
  190. Candid
  191.  Comical
  192. Obliging
  193. Self-Critical
  194. Fashionable
  195. Religious
  196. Soft-Hearted
  197. Dignified
  198. Philosophical
  199. Idealistic
  200. Soft-Spoken
  201. Disciplined
  202. Serious
  203. Definite
  204. Convincing
  205. Persuasive
  206. Obedient
  207. Quick
  208. Sophisticated
  209. Thrifty
  210. Sentimental
  211. Objective
  212. Nonconforming
  213. Righteous
  214. Mathematical
  215. Meditative
  216. Fearless
  217. Systematic
  218. Subtle
  219.  Normal
  220. Daring
  221. Middleclass
  222. Lucky
  223.  Proud
  224. Sensitive
  225. Moralistic
  226. Talkative
  227. Excited
  228. Moderate
  229. Satirical
  230. Prudent
  231. Reserved
  232. Persistent
  233. Meticulous
  234. Unconventional
  235.  Deliberate
  236. Painstaking
  237. Bold
  238. Suave
  239. Cautious
  240. Innocent
  241.  Inoffensive
  242. Shrewd
  243. Methodical
  244. Nonchalant
  245. Self-Contented
  246. Perfectionistic
  247. Forward
  248. Excitable
  249. Outspoken
  250. Prideful
  251. Quiet
  252. Impulsive
  253. Aggressive
  254. Changeable
  255. Conservative
  256. Shy
  257. Hesitant
  258. Unpredictable
  259. Solemn
  260. Blunt
  261. Self-Righteous
  262. Average
  263. Discriminating
  264. Emotional
  265. Unlucky
  266. Bashful
  267. Self-Concerned
  268. Authoritative
  269. Lonesome
  270. Restless
  271. Choosy
  272. Self-Possessed
  273. Naive
  274. Opportunist
  275. Theatrical
  276. Unsophisticated
  277. Impressionable
  278. Ordinary
  1. Strict
  2. Skeptical
  3. Extravagant
  4. Forceful
  5. Cunning
  6. Inexperienced
  7. Unmethodical
  8. Daredevil
  9. Wordy
  10. Daydreamer
  11. Conventional
  12. Materialistic
  13. Self-Satisfied
  14. Rebellious
  15. Eccentric
  16. Opinionated
  17. Stern
  18. Lonely
  19. Dependent
  20. Unsystematic
  21. Self-Conscious
  22. Undecided
  23. Resigned
  24. Clownish
  25. Anxious
  26. Conforming
  27. Critical
  28. Conformist
  29. Radical
  30. Dissatisfied
  31. Old-Fashioned
  32. Meek
  33. Frivolous
  34. Discontented
  35. Troubled
  36. Irreligious
  37. Overcautious
  38. Silent
  39. Tough
  40. Ungraceful
  41. Argumentative
  42. Withdrawing
  43. Uninquisitive
  44. Forgetful
  45. Inhibited
  46. Unskilled
  47. Crafty
  48. Passive
  49. Immodest
  50. Unpopular
  51. Timid
  52. Spendthrift
  53. Temperamental
  54. Gullible
  55. Indecisive
  56. Silly
  57. Submissive
  58. Unstudious
  59. Preoccupied
  60. Tense
  61. Fearful
  62. Unromantic
  63. Absent-Minded
  64. Impractical
  65. Withdrawn
  66. Unadventurous
  67. Sarcastic
  68. Sad
  69. Unemotional
  70. Worrying
  71. High-Strung
  72. Unoriginal
  73. Unpoised
  74. Compulsive
  75. Worrier
  76. Demanding
  77. Unhappy
  78. Indifferent
  79. Uncultured
  80. Clumsy
  81. Insecure
  82. Unentertaining
  83. Imitative
  84. Melancholy
  85. Mediocre
  86. Obstinate
  87. Unhealthy
  88. Headstrong
  89. Nervous
  90. Nonconfident
  91. Stubborn
  92. Unimaginative
  93. Down-Hearted
  94. Unobservant
  95. Inconsistent
  96. Unpunctual
  97. Unindustrious
  98. Disturbed
  99. Superstitious
  100. Frustrated
  101. Illogical
  102. Rash
  103. Unenthusiastic
  104. Inaccurate
  105. Noninquisitive
  106. Unagreeable
  107. Jumpy
  108. Possessive
  109. Purposeless
  110. Moody
  111. Unenterprising
  112. Unintellectual
  113. Unwise
  114. Oversensitive
  115. Inefficient
  116. Reckless
  117. Pompous
  118. Uncongenial
  119. Untidy
  120. Unaccommodating
  121. Noisy
  122. Squeamish
  123. Cynical
  124. Angry
  125. Listless
  126. Uninspiring
  127. Unintelligent
  128. Domineering
  129. Scolding
  130. Depressed
  131. Unobliging
  132. Pessimistic
  133. Unattentive
  134. Boisterous
  135. Suspicious
  136. Inattentive
  137. Overconfident
  138. Smug
  139. Unsociable
  140. Unproductive
  141. Wasteful
  142. Fickle
  143. Neglectful
  144. Short-Tempered
  145. Hot-Headed
  146. Unsocial
  147. Envious
  148. Overcritical
  149. Scheming
  150.  Sly
  151. Weak
  152. Foolhardy
  153. Immature
  154. Dominating
  155. Showy
  156. Sloppy
  157. Unsympathetic
  158. Uncompromising
  159. Hot-Tempered
  160. Neurotic
  161. Unsporting
  162. Finicky
  163. Resentful
  164. Unruly
  165. Fault-Finding
  166. Messy
  167. Misfit
  168. Uninteresting
  169. Scornful
  170. Antisocial
  171. Irritable
  172. Stingy
  173. Tactless
  174. Careless
  175.  Foolish
  176. Troublesome
  177. Ungracious
  178. Negligent
  179. Wishy-Washy
  180. Profane
  181. Gloomy
  182. Helpless
  183. Disagreeable
  184. Touchy
  185. Irrational
  186. Tiresome
  187. Disobedient
  188. Complaining
  189.  Lifeless
  190. Vain
  191. Lazy
  192. Unappreciative
  193. Maladjusted
  194. Aimless
  195. Boastful
  196. Dull
  197. Gossipy
  198. Unappealing
  199. Hypochondriac
  200. Irritating
  201. Petty
  202. Shallow
  203. Deceptive
  204. Grouchy
  205. Egotistical
  206. Meddlesome
  207. Uncivil
  208. Cold
  209. Unsportsmanlike
  210. Bossy
  211. Unpleasing
  212. Cowardly
  213. Discourteous
  214. Incompetent
  215. Childish
  216. Superficial
  217. Ungrateful
  218. Self-Conceited
  219. Hard-Hearted
  220. Unfair
  221. Irresponsible
  222. Prejudiced
  223. Bragging
  224. Jealous
  225. Unpleasant
  226. Unreliable

Impolite

  1. Crude
  2.  Nosey
  3. Humorless
  4. Quarrelsome
  5. Abusive
  6. Distrustful
  7. Intolerant
  8. Unforgiving
  9. Boring
  10. Unethical
  11. Unreasonable
  12. Self-Centered
  13. Snobbish
  14. Unkindly
  15. Ill-Mannered
  16. Ill-Tempered
  17. Unfriendly
  18. Hostile
  19. Dislikable
  20. Ultra-Critical
  21. Offensive
  22. Belligerent
  23. Underhanded
  24. Annoying
  25. Disrespectful
  26. Loud-Mouthed
  27. Selfish
  28. Narrow-Minded
  29. Vulgar
  30. Heartless
  31. Insolent
  32. Thoughtless
  33. Rude
  34.  Conceited
  35. Greedy
  36. Spiteful
  37. Insulting
  38. Insincere
  39. Unkind
  40. Untrustworthy
  41. Deceitful
  42. Dishonorable
  43. Malicious
  44. Obnoxious
  45. Untruthful
  46. Dishonest
  47. Cruel
  48. Mean
  49. Phony
  50. Liar

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23 minutes ago, HardOnWind said:

546->555

You didn't include fucking liar.

sorry, the numbering is buggered, but the highlighting got faster the further down you go.

Anyway, I hope it answers Jeff's question.

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9 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Well things have been nasty for a bit, not just the last few months.

0*qfbPf2hOJs6enT5Y.jpg

I got shit like this from "friends" for 8 years :(

 

I didn't see that here. This is the first time I've seen that particular meme. Even that one that got Dabs booted I hadn't seen here previously.

I do remember lots and lots with W and chimps though. BIAM could post that shit all day....

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9 hours ago, Hillary said:

But mommy Billy did it first .... I can't believe hat is how you want to sound.

Well one thing that is different is the Obamas are not actually hybrids of humans and chimps, they aren't Muslims, they aren't Kenyans, no sex slaves live under the pizza place, Vince Foster was not murdered by Hillary, and so on.

Trump gets shit for things he *really did in real life on this planet* ;)

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:
10 hours ago, Hillary said:

But mommy Billy did it first .... I can't believe hat is how you want to sound.

Well one thing that is different is the Obamas are not actually hybrids of humans and chimps, they aren't Muslims, they aren't Kenyans, no sex slaves live under the pizza place, Vince Foster was not murdered by Hillary, and so on.

Trump gets shit for things he *really did in real life on this planet* ;)

Well, there ya go again. Trying to bring REALITY into the picture.

These people are fuckheads, K-I-S. They don't like reality, and they wish it would go away. They would -much- rather pretend that their invisible friend is real, and it pisses them off when the rest of us won't play. Shucks, it pisses them off when their fuckhead friends insist on trying to bring -their- invisible friend to the party.

Pointing out that 20+ years of fantasy role-playing that the Clintons are some scary alien monster, and that Obama screwed up running the country (along with starting all these wars we keep hearing about) is not the same as pointing out that President Trump is actually not carrying out his oath to up hold the Constitution, just pisses them off. As we see here, over and over again.

-DSK

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That is actually a major goal of Russian operations. They know the rabid partisans will never believe anything bad about their guy and never believe anything good about the other guy. What they want is to make it seem like there is no objective truth at all. Loads of bullshit flung at Obama and Clinton were fake, but so what, that's how the game is played. So now it is Trump's turn to get abuse and it all must be fake too. It is ALL made up and NOTHING is actually true, right :rolleyes:

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The thing that I find remarkable about Trump is that he is such an incredible loose cannon fuckwit that nothing said about him, no matter how outlandish, is unbelievable on its face.

Anything reported about him, no matter what, needs to be proven false - absolutely nothing can be dismissed as ridiculous without that proof.

And there has been remarkably little proof.

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Well once you brag about looking at under age girls changing clothes and grabbing pussies of random women, it is hard to figure out what he is even ashamed of admitting to doing, let alone doing while no one is looking.

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We have not even seen the guy's original long form Birth Certificate yet, let alone had a chance to review his college transcripts to see if he was admitted on his own merit.  How anyone can support him yet is beyond me.  

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5 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

We have not even seen the guy's original long form Birth Certificate yet, let alone had a chance to review his college transcripts to see if he was admitted on his own merit.  How anyone can support him yet is beyond me.  

You forgot to praise his military service...while in high school.  

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

You forgot to praise his military service...while in high school.  

Let us not forget how valiantly he fought his own "personal Vietnam".

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On 11/6/2017 at 9:23 PM, Steam Flyer said:

BANGHAZI MF'ers !!!!!!!!!!

Why hasn't Crooked Hillary been investigated for this? Why isn't Crooked Obama behind bars right now ??!?!!

Yes, short memory.

Really

-DSK

Nice deflection attempt to cover up that you forgot obama went off to a completely new war of his very own in Libya.  But as usual, you FAIL.

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On 11/6/2017 at 10:00 PM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I personally think that opposition to the current power structure is a good thing - to the extent that it's about ideas and objectives focused on the best for the country.  Such principled opposition ensures that opposing perspectives are voiced, and if the party in power is able to address those perspectives, unity and support are achieved. 

What we have instead is personal vilification of the PARTY in power, extended to every individual who isn't aligned with that opposition, focused upon tearing down the party in power.  That's never helpful - but, it sells ad space. 

That's exactly my point.

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On 11/6/2017 at 10:29 PM, phillysailor said:

Jeff, the "constant harping daily by the press" has been FOX News's platform since before Hillary was on the National Stage. And when Obama was prez, that was the first reaction to be expected from that fine institution. So if your intent was to tell Americans that they need to support their prez in a show of bipartisan unity, you are about 15 years to late, ever since invading the wrong country on false pretenses led us down the rabbit holes of war in the ME and beyond. 

And, please don't forget that we are now bombing in Sudan. That's new under our esteemed #45, whose administration has been marked by more incompetence and outright opposition to American traditions and governmental intent than any in my lifetime. Sorry, but when the EPA is run by the industries it is supposed to regulate, when the banking sector gets the regulations and tax proposals it desires for increased profits at a time when the income gap threatens to make destitute whole segments of our society, then active opposition is indeed what I will choose.

He is defunding many of the institutions I think are responsible for the smooth running of our country, has numerous senior figures with legitimate, historical, and clandestine contacts and relationships with a foreign power historically our enemy. His choices for leading Commerce, Education, and numerous other departments seems related to the size of their bank account, not their managerial excellence, and I do not want an oligarchy empowered in this country. I can't understand why you think I should acquiesce to his psychological deficiencies and low knowledge state with deference.

If you could bring this message of kumbaya while a Democrat is in power, then I'd listen today. But you are in general more partisan that your post above lets on. We all know your preferences and are now dealing with the bald face irony you propose is sincere. Whatever. 

Resistance to the Gropenführer is rapidly becoming bipartisan, legal and global. Get onboard if you want. Or remain neutral and support his misogyny, incompetence, corruption, demagoguery and the other myriad flaws of his leadership. Your choice. But don't tell Americans to stand by him.

 

Why do you think I'm just talking about right now???  I fully include Fox neuse in this.  In fact they are probably the true beginning of the fucked up press antics.  I hate them as much as I do MSNBC.  

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15 hours ago, FillYourBoots said:

Niger

That's racist!  You can't use the N-word here.

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3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Well once you brag about looking at under age girls changing clothes and grabbing pussies of random women, it is hard to figure out what he is even ashamed of admitting to doing, let alone doing while no one is looking.

The man has not one tiny shred of shame!  He is the most self-absorbed, selfish, pussy grabbing pervert that ever ran for the oval office.....

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Nice deflection attempt to cover up that you forgot obama went off to a completely new war of his very own in Libya.  But as usual, you FAIL.

When exactly did the war in Libya start? How many ground troops did Obama commit to this new war in Libya, on his own?

I bet you hear your invisible friend calling, you better go ask mom if you can go outside to play

BENGHAZI  MF'ers !!!!

-DSK

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23 hours ago, soak_ed said:

OK, you are a fucking idiot.  Trump is a corrupt, narcissistic, bumbling, idiot.   You can't compare Trump to any other president in US history and probably against any leader of a large powerful, democratic country in the world in modern history.  Trump has set the bar so low, it is unlikely there will ever be another leader so incompetent.  It just boggles the mind.

 

Berlusconi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi

I'm trying to think of 'any leader of a large powerful democratic country' :)

 

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1 minute ago, cmilliken said:
23 hours ago, soak_ed said:

OK, you are a fucking idiot.  Trump is a corrupt, narcissistic, bumbling, idiot.   You can't compare Trump to any other president in US history and probably against any leader of a large powerful, democratic country in the world in modern history.  Trump has set the bar so low, it is unlikely there will ever be another leader so incompetent.  It just boggles the mind.

 

Berlusconi?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi

I'm trying to think of 'any leader of a large powerful democratic country' :)

Well at least Berlusconi made the trains run on time.

-DSK

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My Father in law is a native Italian, he absolutely loathed Berlusconi. Heard a few rants from him on the subject. 

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24 minutes ago, Sean said:

My Father in law is a native Italian, he absolutely loathed Berlusconi. Heard a few rants from him on the subject. 

 

Very interesting??!??  Missus BB works with a Turkish cook and he supports their new head guy there??.....

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2 hours ago, cmilliken said:

So is Trump even second rate at being a second rate leader?

:)

 

Totally - he ain't even third rate - more like fifth rate.

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5 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Why do you think I'm just talking about right now???  I fully include Fox neuse in this.  In fact they are probably the true beginning of the fucked up press antics.  I hate them as much as I do MSNBC.  

Rest assured Mr President that no disrespect for yourself or your office is tolerated in the PARA. I am heading over to the clubhouse to do some moderation right now.

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I wonder what TMSail will say to his grandkids....

 

For now, Trump is America’s national Rorschach test, an inkblot that looks like a courageous patriot to some and a crook and a traitor to others. But he could soon become a full-blown national emergency — and as Jeff Flake told his Senate colleagues, there will be a day when they have to explain to their children and grandchildren what they did at that crucial moment.

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18 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I wonder what TMSail will say to his grandkids....

That Trump was never given a chance by the lefties. That Trump was a good man - but he never supported him and that Clinton was worse.

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