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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Madmax

Eds SC-33 Anarchy 3

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Bro, that boat never did have 4th gear and wtf is that stump of a mast all about?  Taper that bitch!  Griping about a rating already? Bro, you have come off the pinnacle of performance in a M-32 and are now in the late 70's!

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the mast is indeed very basic. nice, but basic. given that these things rate 96-126 around the country, and that the best one anywhere is in seattle and is, from reliable accounts, no faster than a well sailed j 29 masthead, and that we were no faster than a santana 30/30 gp or a j-27, i'd say the rating isn't close. we'll know more after a couple of bay buoy races this weekend. it's not a bitch, it's simply getting the numbers right. as of now, they don't appear to be.

as for the m32, it was fun and nothing can compare, but for me it was always going to be a short term affair. i wanted to get this 33, make it nice, and enjoy it for a little racing, a little camping, and a little day sailing, all with my beautiful fiance. things change in life and i'm just doing something different. i doubt it will be my last boat....

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However as you did not buy an Olson, the same rule applies, weight is death. Get yourself a weight nazi and sling off all you can. Then look at rake. You have new sails, new bottom, new most everything.

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dude, the boat is stripped of anything that isn't required to be there. do you think this is my first rodeo? and of course we are going to get the rig and sails sorted out. like i said, i'll have a much better feeling for where she lies after next weekend.

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The SC 33 looks like it came with a single spreader rig, which explains the mast I would think.  Change or modify it and you may get crucified by your local PHRF board - depending  on how they view these sorts of things.

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No SC33s in Fl that I'm aware. Hard to believe they'd be that much slower than a Soveral 33. Oh well, at least you bought sails from a local loft that will help sort the boat out.

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9 minutes ago, RKoch said:

No SC33s in Fl that I'm aware. Hard to believe they'd be that much slower than a Soveral 33. Oh well, at least you bought sails from a local loft that will help sort the boat out.

Sov 33: Disp = 5800, SA/D = 26.8

SC 33: Disp = 7000, SA/D = 20.9 (at least for the "frac" version)

End of story

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I'd say the Ed is winning.  Awesome retro boat that looks killer, perfect slip at SDYC, and amazing babe.

Everyone else can go sail their lightweight flyer with a bunch of smelly neckbeard semi-pro's aboard busting their guts on a wire, if that is what you are into.

Me....I'm looking forward to going retro with the Ed.

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49 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Sov 33: Disp = 5800, SA/D = 26.8

SC 33: Disp = 7000, SA/D = 20.9 (at least for the "frac" version)

End of story

The Soverals were all over advertised weight. Some by a good bit. They do have a generous rig.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

The Soverals were all over advertised weight. Some by a good bit. They do have a generous rig.

That is likely true - but I`d hazard a guess that most boats weigh in heavier than published.  So the same likely applies to the SC as well.  Possibly not to the same degree as the Sov, IDK.

Besides, light air is all about horsepower.  Peterson 35s are still competitive in PHRF here in PNW 

The frac SC33 has an I of 35 and P of 35.5, which are 0.5 and 3 ft less than the I and P on my under-canvassed Dash 34 (PHRF BC of 113). The SC33 would have less WS than the Dash which would compensate for the additional weight and smaller SA.  Pretty certain the Dash would be faster in a breeze.

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11 minutes ago, Editor said:

the sc 33 is masthead, not frac.

Yeah, I get that, but the only published rig dimensions I could find list the frac rig - which is why I referred to it as a frac SC33.  But MH versions of most boats have similar SA as the frac versions.

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1 hour ago, PeterHuston said:

I'd say the Ed is winning.  Awesome retro boat that looks killer, perfect slip at SDYC, and amazing babe.

Everyone else can go sail their lightweight flyer with a bunch of smelly neckbeard semi-pro's aboard busting their guts on a wire, if that is what you are into.

Me....I'm looking forward to going retro with the Ed.

it takes an old school bro to get what i'm after!

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There was one of these racing in santa cruz I remember named flying squirrel. One. It did not do well. Mostly people were sailing olsen 30s and wildeness 30s and then there was an express 37, a couple each olsen and sc 40s then sc50s etc. The sc33 never had a following and was considered a dog I recall. No one really said why except it was hard sail to its rating. 

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Up here Muffin the SC33 rates 117, what is the San Diego PHRF rating for Anarchy 3?

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117 with a  new rudder. 

120 before. 

Scratch with a J-29, which is a great competitor  and baseline for  SC  33 (Muffin) performance.

keep tuning!

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1 hour ago, sailronin said:

Up here Muffin the SC33 rates 117, what is the San Diego PHRF rating for Anarchy 3?

Base for the SC33 in SD is 129.  The adjustment for Ed pissing off everyone who ever thought about sitting on the PHRF-SD rating board is -30 = PHRF 99.

http://www.phrfsandiego.org/gridRoster.php

MS

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15 hours ago, PeterHuston said:

I'd say the Ed is winning.  Awesome retro boat that looks killer, perfect slip at SDYC, and amazing babe.

Everyone else can go sail their lightweight flyer with a bunch of smelly neckbeard semi-pro's aboard busting their guts on a wire, if that is what you are into.

Me....I'm looking forward to going retro with the Ed.

what is retro?  do you mean classic or spirit of tradition?   I think to qualify the boat has to be no younger than 1970 in design.    very big in Europe.    Classic Boat Owners Association exists in the USA.   gorgeous boats.    again,  what is retro?   is there a class association ?   or is it just a personal state of mind ?

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9 minutes ago, Rejected said:

what is retro?   is there a class association ?   or is it just a personal state of mind ?

We have a lot of fun pounding on the local PHRF non spinnaker fleet out on the bay if we get > 10 kts of wind, with a 1960  full keel centerboard CCA Yawl design. 

(Below 5 kts and 200 yrd wide tidal channel and it's a whole different, much sadder story.:unsure:)

The Cal 40's seem to do pretty well for an older boat racing PHRF as well; so "personal state of mind" would qualify as much as anything. 

Race what you have, don't bitch about the course or the weather, and glory in the moments that feel good. 

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12 hours ago, sailronin said:

Up here Muffin the SC33 rates 117, what is the San Diego PHRF rating for Anarchy 3?

we rate 99. and a phrf board that almost unanimously hates me which is why they will never rate this boat what it should rate, which i am guessing is 108-112. 

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btw, onesails built us a beautiful runner. too bad we had to reach with it all the way out on the first leg. we are going to build an asso, just not sure how we will fly it....

a3 reaching with runner.jpg

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12 hours ago, sailronin said:

Up here Muffin the SC33 rates 117, what is the San Diego PHRF rating for Anarchy 3?

 

10 hours ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Base for the SC33 in SD is 129.  The adjustment for Ed pissing off everyone who ever thought about sitting on the PHRF-SD rating board is -30 = PHRF 99.

http://www.phrfsandiego.org/gridRoster.php

MS

I forgot what Freight Train or Firelock rated back in the 80's, but 129 seems to be a gift.
I see that Area C has the 33 at a base of 96 which rings a bell. 
In the SB2KH race 96 should be a good rating for that boat.

Scot, is your local area adjustment handed down by the Rouge SD board or the new Local Board that just was approved by Regional?
I've heard some stories about SD trying to separate from Regional.

If I had a 33, I'd be anchored out at Santa Cruz Island an awful lot.

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129 is a made up number - it does not exist. we are rated by phrf dago, which is basing it on a literal 30 year old rating that simply is no longer accurate. i don't know anything about the new local board. what is it?

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17 hours ago, 12 metre said:

The SC 33 looks like it came with a single spreader rig, which explains the mast I would think.  Change or modify it and you may get crucified by your local PHRF board - depending  on how they view these sorts of things.

The MH 33s that I have seen were double spreader rigs.  Look at the photos on this forum of Freight Train.

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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

 

I forgot what Freight Train or Firelock rated back in the 80's, but 129 seems to be a gift.
I see that Area C has the 33 at a base of 96 which rings a bell. 

 

Back in the late 1970s/early 1980s when the Olson 30s rated 90 the SC 33s rated 96 and were competitive.

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17 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Sov 33: Disp = 5800, SA/D = 26.8

SC 33: Disp = 7000, SA/D = 20.9 (at least for the "frac" version)

End of story

DSPL on the 33s was 6000, not 7000.

MH rig was I=41.25, J=13.5, P=33.5, E=11.75

Now run your SA/D.

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Dudes, the Ed. wanted a Santa Cruz 33. He bought what he wanted. He's not a dumbass when it comes to getting what speed he can get out of a boat.

To get in here and tell him 1.) he bought the wrong boat  and 2.) he has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to make it into a different boat   is just fuckin' stupid.  He bought a Santa Cruz 33. He knows what he bought. He bought it for perfectly good reasons.  He'll figure it out.    Lay off.

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5 minutes ago, AlR said:

The MH 33s that I have seen were double spreader rigs.  Look at the photos on this forum of Freight Train.

they were mostly single spreader. i wanted to go to a double with a smaller section but selden said they couldn't. it remains a big disappointment.

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1 minute ago, Alan H said:

Dudes, the Ed. wanted a Santa Cruz 33. He bought what he wanted. He's not a dumbass when it comes to getting what speed he can get out of a boat.

To get in here and tell him 1.) he bought the wrong boat  and 2.) he has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to make it into a different boat   is just fuckin' stupid.  He bought a Santa Cruz 33. He knows what he bought. He bought it for perfectly good reasons.  He'll figure it out.    Lay off.

i appreciate that man. it is clear that the 33 is not exactly a rocket.we have some work to do to get it as right as it can be. 

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1 hour ago, Editor said:

btw, onesails built us a beautiful runner. too bad we had to reach with it all the way out on the first leg. we are going to build an asso, just not sure how we will fly it....

a3 reaching with runner.jpg

 

Low-friction ring in-front of forestay. Run a tackline back to a constrictor on the cabin top. Do a typical 5 string system. Hardly rocket science, you don't have to re-invent the wheel. Shoot Alex and Ballard Sails a message and see if you can get some photos of the setup on his Evelyn 32-2. 

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Well, that's half the fun, right?  I mean, if you decide that it'd be fun to go lay out billions of boat bucks for a carbon stick and a new rudder, then go have fun!  If you decide it'd be fun to stay with the aluminum stick and the trapezoid under the boat and get what you can out of it, then go do that.  Have some friends on board, bang around the cans and drink some beer.. Take the Lady out for some sails. Go to the islands, drink beer and slather sunscreen all over her.

....it's all good.   Speed is great but speed is not the only thing.  We've had our run-ins over the years but I know that you know more than a few things about making a boat go fast. You know more than I do, that's for sure.

Go thou, and have a good time with your boat.

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14 minutes ago, AlR said:

DSPL on the 33s was 6000, not 7000.

MH rig was I=41.25, J=13.5, P=33.5, E=11.75

Now run your SA/D.

No need to run the numbers,  I just used the numbers on Sailboatdata http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=868 which sometimes, but very rarely has absolutely wrong numbers, but for some things I would take their numbers over the builders published numbers.

The comparison I came up with was not trying to prove anything other than the SC33 should not be similar in speed to a Sov 33 in a light air region.   If it was, I'm pretty certain DC would have chosen a SC 33 over a Sov 33 given the Sov owes the SC time.

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12 hours ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Base for the SC33 in SD is 129. 

Where are you seeing that?

1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

Scot, is your local area adjustment handed down by the Rouge SD board or the new Local Board that just was approved by Regional?

I believe 96 has been the regional rating for a long time, w/one (modified) at 90

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26 minutes ago, Alan H said:

Dudes, the Ed. wanted a Santa Cruz 33. He bought what he wanted. He's not a dumbass when it comes to getting what speed he can get out of a boat.

To get in here and tell him 1.) he bought the wrong boat  and 2.) he has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to make it into a different boat   is just fuckin' stupid.  He bought a Santa Cruz 33. He knows what he bought. He bought it for perfectly good reasons.  He'll figure it out.    Lay off.

Maybe you're mixing up threads, but I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested he bought the wrong boat.  I think what most here are saying, perhaps in a roundabout way, is that the PHRF of A3 sounds a bit harsh.

Cool boat - harsh PHRF. 

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harsh is right. when i applied for the rating, i presented the dago board a fairly thorough orr v phrf rating analysis of the 33 (along with other boats in the same class), and it stated that phrf rates the 33 9 seconds too fast. it was ignored.

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52 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Maybe you're mixing up threads, but I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested he bought the wrong boat.  I think what most here are saying, perhaps in a roundabout way, is that the PHRF of A3 sounds a bit harsh.

Cool boat - harsh PHRF. 

"The English Git" and MadMax told him he should have bought an Olson 30 or a Hobie 33.  That was a 'ways back in the thread, though.

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1 hour ago, 12 metre said:

No need to run the numbers,  I just used the numbers on Sailboatdata http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=868 which sometimes, but very rarely has absolutely wrong numbers, but for some things I would take their numbers over the builders published numbers.

The comparison I came up with was not trying to prove anything other than the SC33 should not be similar in speed to a Sov 33 in a light air region.   If it was, I'm pretty certain DC would have chosen a SC 33 over a Sov 33 given the Sov owes the SC time.

Sailboat data's numbers are frequently wrong, probably more often wrong than right. Builder'sbrochures are also way off on weight. 

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1 hour ago, Sarcoma said:

 

Low-friction ring in-front of forestay. Run a tackline back to a constrictor on the cabin top. Do a typical 5 string system. Hardly rocket science, you don't have to re-invent the wheel. Shoot Alex and Ballard Sails a message and see if you can get some photos of the setup on his Evelyn 32-2. 

Or I can shoot you some photos of Muffin.. Pretty easy. We convert the fore guy to a tack line, lower the pole, throw some guys on it.  Good to go. 

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/100094681587997126638/album/AF1QipPomZ0Ar4NbU2m-laUnLFzzF4u4JYYEM0LDuKkB/AF1QipOM1l2BUXyzSl9CLBJ_c10hk0rRmN7boJv1b9Yd

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3 minutes ago, Mach 5 said:

Or I can shoot you some photos of Muffin.. Pretty easy. We convert the fore guy to a tack line, lower the pole, throw some guys on it.  Good to go. 

https://get.google.com/albumarchive/100094681587997126638/album/AF1QipPomZ0Ar4NbU2m-laUnLFzzF4u4JYYEM0LDuKkB/AF1QipOM1l2BUXyzSl9CLBJ_c10hk0rRmN7boJv1b9Yd

shoot me some!

1 hour ago, Alan H said:

Dudes, the Ed. wanted a Santa Cruz 33. He bought what he wanted. He's not a dumbass when it comes to getting what speed he can get out of a boat.

To get in here and tell him 1.) he bought the wrong boat  and 2.) he has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to make it into a different boat   is just fuckin' stupid.  He bought a Santa Cruz 33. He knows what he bought. He bought it for perfectly good reasons.  He'll figure it out.    Lay off.

i appreciate that man. it is clear that the 33 is not exactly a rocket.we have some work to do to get it as right as it can be. 

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Just now, Editor said:

shoot me some!

i appreciate that man. it is clear that the 33 is not exactly a rocket.we have some work to do to get it as right as it can be. 

It is a fun  platform to learn and tweak and try things. You will be kicking ass in no time. Just a learning curve, and being open to trying different things, and having FUN!!

Weather depending, this weekend will include #2 testing. A sail I told myself I would never own for the boat..  We'll see!!

 

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2 hours ago, AlR said:

The MH 33s that I have seen were double spreader rigs.  Look at the photos on this forum of Freight Train.

Mine is a single spreader masthead rig.  Original.

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1 hour ago, Editor said:

harsh is right. when i applied for the rating, i presented the dago board a fairly thorough orr v phrf rating analysis of the 33 (along with other boats in the same class), and it stated that phrf rates the 33 9 seconds too fast. it was ignored.

If the 33 were given a +33.9 then it would be 129.9, based on your statement.
My little Zap is 135. I could never compete against you at that rating.
 

The issue is all the new sprit/planing boats do not rate correctly under PHRF.
PHRF was never intended for  Negative Ratings.
PHRF cannot adequately rate planing boats.
PHRF struggled to rate ULDB's back in the 70's and 80's and that is about all it can handle.
Solution: All new Maxi and smaller sprit/planing boats must be rated and sail under ORR.

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29 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

If the 33 were given a +33.9 then it would be 129.9, based on your statement.
My little Zap is 135. I could never compete against you at that rating.
 

The issue is all the new sprit/planing boats do not rate correctly under PHRF.
PHRF was never intended for  Negative Ratings.
PHRF cannot adequately rate planing boats.
PHRF struggled to rate ULDB's back in the 70's and 80's and that is about all it can handle.
Solution: All new Maxi and smaller sprit/planing boats must be rated and sail under ORR.

We’re talking about a SC33s rating. Do not open that can of worms. There is no “must” in handicap racing, polemicizing sailing is why it is a sport in decline.

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sorry, that sentence was poorly written, i meant that according to orr, the sc 33 is rated 9 seconds per mile faster than what orr says it should be. does that make sense? 

and that points to the 108-112 that i have suggested the boat should really rate. 

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4 hours ago, Alan H said:

Dudes, the Ed. wanted a Santa Cruz 33. He bought what he wanted. He's not a dumbass when it comes to getting what speed he can get out of a boat.

To get in here and tell him 1.) he bought the wrong boat  and 2.) he has to spend tens of thousands of dollars to make it into a different boat   is just fuckin' stupid.  He bought a Santa Cruz 33. He knows what he bought. He bought it for perfectly good reasons.  He'll figure it out.    Lay off.

The irony here is that after 1 gawdam race, we're already pissing and moaning about the...RATING!  I'm sure the gallery would lay off if the rating wasn't the first thing to gripe about.

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19 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

The irony here is that after 1 gawdam race, we're already pissing and moaning about the...RATING!  I'm sure the gallery would lay off if the rating wasn't the first thing to gripe about.

The one race he has done wasn't even using the rating system he is bitching about!

The SC33 has rated 96 in SoCal since the 1970s.  There has been some rating creep of the competition during that time.  Olson 30s went from 90 to 96 (+6), J29MHOBs went from 105 to 111 (+6), so it would be reasonable for the 33s to go from 96 to 102 (+6).

Muffin rates 117 in PHRF NW with her modified rudder (-3).  So the stock 33 rating is 120.  Other NW ratings like the SC27 and Moore24 are +18 compared to SoCal.  Apply that delta to the stock NW rating of 120 and you get (120 - 18 = 102).

Again, 102 seems to be the reasonable rating.  That 99 is SO unfair!

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it ain't that, it's a simple observation, backed up, btw, by everyone who knows anything about the boat...

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1 hour ago, AlR said:

The one race he has done wasn't even using the rating system he is bitching about!

The SC33 has rated 96 in SoCal since the 1970s.  There has been some rating creep of the competition during that time.  Olson 30s went from 90 to 96 (+6), J29MHOBs went from 105 to 111 (+6), so it would be reasonable for the 33s to go from 96 to 102 (+6).

Muffin rates 117 in PHRF NW with her modified rudder (-3).  So the stock 33 rating is 120.  Other NW ratings like the SC27 and Moore24 are +18 compared to SoCal.  Apply that delta to the stock NW rating of 120 and you get (120 - 18 = 102).

Again, 102 seems to be the reasonable rating.  That 99 is SO unfair!

SC27 and Moore 24 are more the exceptions  SC 27 is + 18, Moore 24 is + 12

http://www.phrfsocal.org/web-lookup-2/ 

J/29 frac: pretty much identical 117 NW, 120 SoCal

J/35 and Schock 35: 72 in both (very recently bumped to 76 in BC, not sure about NW)

M 242: 156 in both

From glancing through the SoCal list and sorting by manufacturer, the ratings on the whole seem remarkably similar to me in both regions

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20 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

SC27 and Moore 24 are more the exceptions  SC 27 is + 18, Moore 24 is + 12

http://www.phrfsocal.org/web-lookup-2/ 

J/29 frac: pretty much identical 117 NW, 120 SoCal

J/35 and Schock 35: 72 in both (very recently bumped to 76 in BC, not sure about NW)

M 242: 156 in both

From glancing through the SoCal list and sorting by manufacturer, the ratings on the whole seem remarkably similar to me in both regions

but not sc 33's... 96 socal, 120 pnw

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8 hours ago, Editor said:

btw, onesails built us a beautiful runner. too bad we had to reach with it all the way out on the first leg. we are going to build an asso, just not sure how we will fly it....

a3 reaching with runner.jpg

Great looking chute!

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58 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

SC27 and Moore 24 are more the exceptions  SC 27 is + 18, Moore 24 is + 12

http://www.phrfsocal.org/web-lookup-2/ 

J/29 frac: pretty much identical 117 NW, 120 SoCal

J/35 and Schock 35: 72 in both (very recently bumped to 76 in BC, not sure about NW)

M 242: 156 in both

From glancing through the SoCal list and sorting by manufacturer, the ratings on the whole seem remarkably similar to me in both regions

J29MHOBs rate 120 in the NW. Fracs are higher, either 123 or 126 can’t remember. 

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38 minutes ago, Sarcoma said:

J29MHOBs rate 120 in the NW. Fracs are higher, either 123 or 126 can’t remember. 

This must be a very recent development - as in the past few months.

A few years ago the J/29 owners were apparently screaming blue murder because the Davo 29s were coming out of hibernation with a gift rating of 129 - they wanted the Davos to be rated at least as fast as the frac J/29 so NW arbitrarily knocked the Davo down to 117, which IIRC was about the J/29 frac rating at the time.

Even this summer, in RSS and Cow Bay, the frac J/29 Godzilla was listed at 119 and 117 respectively (RSS sailed under PHRF BC and Cow Bay under NW).  But I see her most recent BC cert now lists a base of 125 with an As-Sailed of 122.

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53 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

This must be a very recent development - as in the past few months.

A few years ago the J/29 owners were apparently screaming blue murder because the Davo 29s were coming out of hibernation with a gift rating of 129 - they wanted the Davos to be rated at least as fast as the frac J/29 so NW arbitrarily knocked the Davo down to 117, which IIRC was about the J/29 frac rating at the time.

Even this summer, in RSS and Cow Bay, the frac J/29 Godzilla was listed at 119 and 117 respectively (RSS sailed under PHRF BC and Cow Bay under NW).  But I see her most recent BC cert now lists a base of 125 with an As-Sailed of 122.

Slick, Wings, And Here and Now(all MHOB Seattle area raced) J29s rate 120. I remember a frac one coming out to play a few years ago that rated somewhere above that. Don’t remember exactly what.

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4 minutes ago, Sarcoma said:

I remember a frac one coming out to play a few years ago that rated somewhere above that.

Plan R is a FROB and rates 120 as well, but has 466M coding. So base rating  might be 123?  

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My Hobie comment is a long standing joke with Scot.  ASO wit a Jesus Ring should do it Scott.  I love the SC33 pintail looks.

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7 hours ago, Editor said:

well, i was wrong about the so cal rating.

You’re wrong about many things, but not this boat IMO

You’ll get it sorted

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19 hours ago, Editor said:

they were mostly single spreader. i wanted to go to a double with a smaller section but selden said they couldn't. it remains a big disappointment.

They would have built it for DC. :) 

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I love what you did with Anarchy III and you will have a lot of fun with the boat, both on and off the race course.    It will just take a bit of time and tweaking to find the right buttons to push to make her go.   You do seem to have a bit of an initial ratings hole to deal with.

I am from near RKoch's neck of the woods and would love to track an SC33 down to bring to Tampa Bay and do a similar program.   I am a great fan of classic plastic.

Stumbling

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22 hours ago, 12 metre said:

SC27 and Moore 24 are more the exceptions  SC 27 is + 18, Moore 24 is + 12

http://www.phrfsocal.org/web-lookup-2/ 

J/29 frac: pretty much identical 117 NW, 120 SoCal

J/35 and Schock 35: 72 in both (very recently bumped to 76 in BC, not sure about NW)

M 242: 156 in both

From glancing through the SoCal list and sorting by manufacturer, the ratings on the whole seem remarkably similar to me in both regions

Isn't the J35 the national base rated PHRF boat at 72, with all other ratings adjusted around it?

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30 minutes ago, Golfinaspen said:

Well,  it was a nice new runner until you tried to close reach with it. Keep it up and you will have a great cockpit sun shade/awning in no time.

Why use a runner in light air, when you want to do reach to reach jibes, to hit the polars???

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Don't be discouraged. The boat can sail to its rating. Stop sailing it like its a new sports boat. Get rid of the young know it all crew and get some seasoned old old school rock stars aboard. The ones that smoked a lot of weed and could see the wind.  Single spreader Telephone Pole and carbon sails aren't going to help shift gears much though. Bill did build a few of them with Double spreader rigs. Also Try Playing some Frank Zappa on the upwind leg

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37 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Isn't the J35 the national base rated PHRF boat at 72, with all other ratings adjusted around it?

J/35 is 72 in SoCal and NW -  so +0 in NW

Schock 35 is 72 in SoCal and 75 in NW - so +3 in NW

J/29 Frac OB looks like 120 in SoCal and 123 in NW -  so +3 in NW

J/29 MH OB looks like 111 in SoCal and 120 in NW - so +9 in NW

Not much of a difference between SoCal and NW in these three larger classes of boats IMO. 

My main point from yesterdays post is that there is not typically a +18 difference between SoCal and NW which is what AIR claimed since the SC 27 is indeed +18 in NW, but that is atypical.

As a footnote: In BC, the J/35 is actually rated slower than the J/35 (J/35 base is 79 and Schock 35 is 76) - and believe it or not, one of the BC board members has a Schock 35.

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50 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Isn't the J35 the national base rated PHRF boat at 72, with all other ratings adjusted around it?

Yeah, but BC has to be different

.

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Welcome to the world of boats you have bashed for years. Maybe there is something to this Karma business. It does look like a nice boat though. You'll figure out how to make it go.

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All it needs is a starcut, a staysail, and a blooper. And maybe a couple old timers to show the punks how it's done.

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On 11/6/2017 at 5:20 PM, PeterHuston said:

I'd say the Ed is winning.  Awesome retro boat that looks killer, perfect slip at SDYC, and amazing babe.

Everyone else can go sail their lightweight flyer with a bunch of smelly neckbeard semi-pro's aboard busting their guts on a wire, if that is what you are into.

Me....I'm looking forward to going retro with the Ed.

HAHA! Yes.

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On 11/7/2017 at 8:42 AM, Editor said:

we rate 99. and a phrf board that almost unanimously hates me which is why they will never rate this boat what it should rate, which i am guessing is 108-112. 

dude, phrh nw is probably the worst in the country. muffin knows people....

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3 minutes ago, weatherlyjohnson said:

dude, phrh nw is probably the worst in the country. muffin knows people....

also, i take that back they all are the worst in the country... 

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FWIW there are 2 SC33's racing regularly in Long Beach, both rate 96.

Scot, boat looks great, love the old school.....

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I helped the original owner of Mondo (I’m assuming it’s the same Mondo) pull it out of the water at the SDYC after a SF-SD race (?) back when the boat was new. There’s a hoist near the entrance where all the trailerable boats are. We were in the big O’Neill 4wd jacked-up van towing the trailer designed for the 33. The Highway Patrol gave the owner a daylight only permit to get the boat from SD to Santa Cruz. Pulled into the hoist area early in the morning and the owner went to get the boat from where it was to the hoist. He was certain the hoist (at least the one that was there back then) would be able to handle the load (obviously - who’d want to knowingly break a hoist?). All the boat owners standing around started wondering what we were up to. When they saw Mondo motoring towards the hoist, and the truck, and the trailer, they started speaking up about how this doesn’t look like it’s going to work - you can’t do this - wait while I put my boat in the water. Word spread so a bunch of members hurried to get their boats in the water before we busted their hoist. All that time was working against us travel-wise, but we didn’t want to be ungrateful. Eventually the mast got pulled and secured, etc., etc., and Mondo got hoisted onto the trailer. Took awhile to inch the boat back and forth to get the bow and stern pulpits to measure less than overpass height. Drove away around noon with marginal taillight action. Looking out the rear windows all we could see was the keel. The first half dozen overpasses were real freaky but we figured after that many, what could go wrong? Along the way there was lots of interest from excited kids, guys giving us thumbs-up, and the nice guy who pointed out to us the MOB pole had slid out of its tube and was bouncing along behind us. We pulled into a gas station somewhere in the LA area and an old man out for a walk watched us deal with the pole and said as we climbed back up into the van that this was the first time he had ever seen the bottom of a boat.

We made it to Santa Cruz around 11 p.m. Never saw a single Highway Patrol car.

THAT’s how much the boat weighs.

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The Sinnhoffer Hot Rum series is one of the coolest series in Southern California. When else can you see a 6 meter, 10 meter, Caulkins 50 racing against Melges 24s, Vipers, IOR broach coaches, etc.

Herbie Sinnhoffer started the series and donated the original trophy to encourage winter sailing.  

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I teased you when you got her (I called the design "so yesterday" which it bloody well is) and you replied with your usual vitriol since you perceive that I'm a right-wing jackass (both half true) and an incompetent sailor-  well, all of us believe what we chose to believe.  But I see the enthusiasm, pride and the love you've put into her and you got her fixed up nicely; the sails look really, really good, too.  So I say keep sailing her and you'll get her dialed in; maybe once you've accumulated multiple race results you'll have some ammo to request a change (increase) to your rating and I hope you succeed in that.  But most of all- enjoy good times aboard her- you've given the old girl a new lease on life.  

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On 11/7/2017 at 1:15 PM, Editor said:

sorry, that sentence was poorly written, i meant that according to orr, the sc 33 is rated 9 seconds per mile faster than what orr says it should be. does that make sense? 

and that points to the 108-112 that i have suggested the boat should really rate. 

And that makes sense to me. maybe after a bit of real racing and some finish results, you might ask for a rating review.

On 11/7/2017 at 1:07 PM, Sarcoma said:

We’re talking about a SC33s rating. Do not open that can of worms. There is no “must” in handicap racing, polemicizing sailing is why it is a sport in decline.

My point is PHRF was never intended to rate the modern Planning boats or use Negative ratings.

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I like the "Get old guys who smoke weed and see wind" comment!

Discouraging first event but so what?  Go race it, get some results, nobody will doubt your sailing the boat close to its potential and get a rating bump.  PHRF is not the problem, it is participation on PHRF boards that is the problem.  PHRF is looking for the guys "who smoke weed and see wind" to give their .02$, but they are too busy rolling another joint.  PHRF is what you make it and getting involved is one way to be part of the solution.  It is a volunteer organization after all.

BTW I did get to see DC in a PH meeting once and his presentation of facts was spot on.  Alan Andrews also is good in front of the board.  State the facts, show up with some results and usually common sense prevails.  When it does not, become part of the solution.  I did, volunteered to be an Area I rep, a new area that I helped sort out and low and behold when they started trying to rate Grand Prix boats etc it was myself and Robert Plant that calmed the board and talked sense to them.  Volunteer, give back to the sport.

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