• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
CenterboardBrake

Huh? New Sunfish Class?

Recommended Posts

And if you want to claim that you own the IP on the word "Sunfish" as used in the title of a sailors' Association then you are going to have to take that up with these fine ladies. (and my money says you lose)

14reunion05.thumb.jpg.982e542856dffc81b1c65de97196a6b6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Mr. Roy in the latest Laser Sailor in regards to parts shortages:

"We continue to encourage LP to improve this situation and the ongoing relationship in general, but it continues to be frustrating and also confusing to understand LP's business objectives and the message it is sending to Laser sailors.  What's unusual is that the Class Association's objective, at the World, Regional and District levels, is to operate as non-profit organizations that ultimately (and indirectly) promote LP products through the organization of events where these LP sold products are needed and used by the participants.  From a monetary perspective, the Class' use of the Laser name and logo is solely to the benefit of Laser Performance's business."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now we are getting somewhere! Is that gun mount on the bow available from Intensity?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I believe the Intensity gun mount is in a cassette in the rear. I recently got an E-mail saying it was back in stock. It was around $84.95 if I remember correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the latest (Winter 2018) Laser Sailor Andy Roy (Chairman, ILCA North America) wrote the following:

ILCA continues to have challenges in its efforts to establish a positive working relationship with Laser Perfomance. By now most Class member have experienced Laser parts supply issues. This has been a significant problem for both dealers and sailors to obtain boats, sails (although this has improved from what I understand) and various parts. We continue to encourage LP to improve this situation and the ongoing relationship in general, but it continues to be frustrating and also confusing to understand LP's business objectives and the message it is sending to Laser sailors. What's unusual is that the Class Association's objective, at the World, Regional and District levels, is to operate as non-profit organizations that ultimately (and indirectly) promote LP products through the organization of events where these LP sold products are needed and used by the participants. From a monetary perspective, the Class' use of the Laser name and logo is solely to the benefit of Laser Performance's business.

The highlighting is mine, not Andy's!

Not that the tone of the above is close to many views expressed in this thread.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They seem determined to consolidate control of a business they alone have and continue to take action to kill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another post on FB from LP saying that the town hall meeting is off but that they will meet with the class president, statement below:

“TOWN HALL” MEETING PROPOSED BY LASERPERFORMANCE TO BE HELD BY IN REGARDS TO SUNFISH
Update: 6 January 2018

LaserPerformance regrets to announce the cancellation of the “Town Hall” Meeting proposed and planned for January 8th, 2018 between ISCA and LaserPerformance, moderated by World Sailing to discuss in open forum the issues between ISCA and LaserPerformance.
The President of ISCA declined to attend any such style of an open meeting and instructed all ISCA members not to attend. Rather, the President of ISCA insisted that he would only attend a “closed-door” exclusive meeting where the President himself would represent the entirety of ISCA membership with all and full authority vested in him. Naturally World Sailing have subsequently recused themselves to avoid any misconceptions.
LaserPerformance continues to maintain that an open meeting between ISCA and LaserPerformance moderated by World Sailing, where all stakeholders have an opportunity to participate, in person or by teleconference, would be the most transparent, inclusive and truthful exposure of all issues. It would also be the most effective path to reconciliation where possible and to bridging differences.
However, in the interest of all Sunfish stakeholders and more importantly the opportunity for resolution of the principal issues, LaserPerformance has agreed to this “Private Closed-door Executive Only” meeting format proposed by the ISCA President. World Sailing has very graciously agreed to attend this meeting which will now be held on the 8th of January, 2018 in New York City. During this meeting LaserPerformance hopes to debate and discuss all issues with special focus directed towards the differences between the ISCA and ISCO.
Notwithstanding, LaserPerformance will conduct and hold a WEBINAR for all those stakeholders who have been excluded from participation as a result of this restrictive format. Two WEBINAR sessions will be held as follows:
WEBINAR 1: Sunday 14 January 2018 from 12:00 noon to 14:00 EST [NY time]
WEBINAR 2: Monday 15 January 2018 from 12:00 noon to 14:00 EST [NY time].
Details of access to the WEBINAR sessions will be published closer to the date.
LaserPerformance hopes to present to all stakeholders details of the meeting of January 8th, 2018, including the agenda, presentations, discussions, deliberations, and outcomes of the “closed-door” meeting in the interests of bringing transparent, open and inclusive dialogue to and with all Sunfish stakeholders. We hope you can attend the WEBINAR sessions and we welcome receiving in anticipation any suggestions for topics to discuss or questions to answer.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow!! Major great idea!!

i do not sew footballs and I do not sell uniforms, pads, or any other Football related equipment.

i have never played in an NFL game. I do not currently own or have access to any stadium. 

I might start selling Footballs and equipment. I will provide that equipment to sports stores after about six months for prepaid orders 

I am setting up the National Football Organization.  There will be a touch football game in Central Park in New York City next summer. 

 

Everybidy go to my website and sign up!!!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest post from LP and ISCO...

"ISCO is proud to announce that they have surpassed 400 members!!! "Thank you so much to our sailors for all of your support!! We look forward to seeing you at events this 2018 season!!" #Sunfish #sailing #sail #ISCO #sunfishsailing"

You folks have been slacking here on SA/DA.  I was expecting many more pages of angry posts while I was away!  Where did all the ISCA love and ISCO hate go?  ISCO claims 400 members.  Meanwhile ISCA has begged for money for lawyers for months now and only got 40 members to cough up less than $150 each on average.  WS still silent months in with no public statement.  This might not be working out the way we thought it would...

"Houston, we have a problem..."

Is it time to get an Aero?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Wess said:

The latest post from LP and ISCO...

"ISCO is proud to announce that they have surpassed 400 members!!! "Thank you so much to our sailors for all of your support!! We look forward to seeing you at events this 2018 season!!" #Sunfish #sailing #sail #ISCO #sunfishsailing"

You folks have been slacking here on SA/DA.  I was expecting many more pages of angry posts while I was away!  Where did all the ISCA love and ISCO hate go?  ISCO claims 400 members.  Meanwhile ISCA has begged for money for lawyers for months now and only got 40 members to cough up less than $150 each on average.  WS still silent months in with no public statement.  This might not be working out the way we thought it would...

"Houston, we have a problem..."

Is it time to get an Aero?

The Aero is so 2014.

It's time to get an ISCO.

827774470.jpg?w=748&h=526&crop=1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, tillerman said:

The Aero is so 2014.

It's time to get an ISCO.

827774470.jpg?w=748&h=526&crop=1

Geeze, an Aero is expensive enough... I for sure can't afford Isco!  The transfer fee alone would wipe me out 20 X over!!

Beside how is he going to help me get to the R2AK?!

Be interesting to see if any of the parties make any statements after today's meeting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Wess said:

Geeze, an Aero is expensive enough... I for sure can't afford Isco!  The transfer fee alone would wipe me out 20 X over!!

Beside how is he going to help me get to the R2AK?!

Be interesting to see if any of the parties make any statements after today's meeting...

Wait. There's a meeting today? Am I invited? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, tillerman said:

Wait. There's a meeting today? Am I invited? 

Yes but its closed door with WS, ISCA and ISCO/LP attending so no you ain't invited. LP/ISCO claims they wanted you to come but ISCA refused to let you.  Doubt you should believe any of them about who said and did what about a public meeting, LOL, but yes they are reportedly meeting in private today. 

LP/ISCO holding webinars to report back to its class members and general public on Sunday and Monday the 14th and 15th.  Might be an interesting listen if your only other option was driving across Texas in the middle of the night (I speak from recent experience). 

PS - My wife says she wants the ISCO. Should I be worried?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Wess said:

Yes but its closed door with WS, ISCA and ISCO/LP attending so no you ain't invited. LP/ISCO claims they wanted you to come but ISCA refused to let you.  Doubt you should believe any of them about who said and did what about a public meeting, LOL, but yes they are reportedly meeting in private today. 

LP/ISCO holding webinars to report back to its class members and general public on Sunday and Monday the 14th and 15th.  Might be an interesting listen if your only other option was driving across Texas in the middle of the night (I speak from recent experience). 

PS - My wife says she wants the ISCO. Should I be worried?


Your wife can't have the ISCO. Sara Salamo got there first.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4809704/real-madrid-isco-dating-sara-salamo/


nintchdbpict000363817224.jpg?strip=all&w

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are making a lot of assumptions, some of which may not be true.

Assuming both are truthful (they may not be... personally I think both LP/ISCO and ISCA have been less than fully truthful and transparent in statements to date)... both ISCO and ISCA are claiming similar levels of membership, or to be representing similar numbers of sailors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Wess said:

You are making a lot of assumptions, some of which may not be true.

Assuming both are truthful (they may not be... personally I think both LP/ISCO and ISCA have been less than fully truthful and transparent in statements to date)... both ISCO and ISCA are claiming similar levels of membership, or to be representing similar numbers of sailors.

ISCA has about 1000 paid members, much more than ISCO's claimed 400 members who merely clicked online to 'join' for free. For all we know, ISCO's members could just be data mined addresses of people who took a peek at their website.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, RKoch said:

ISCA has about 1000 paid members, much more than ISCO's claimed 400 members who merely clicked online to 'join' for free. For all we know, ISCO's members could just be data mined addresses of people who took a peek at their website.

No dog in this fight but not according to ISCA's published membership list (Active Membership Database ‐ USSCA_Jan‐03‐18) they don't have no 1000.  Not even close.  And if they did ever or do now have 1000, then good grief only 40 members responding to their endless pleas for legal fees donations tells you about how invested those 1000 members are.

Honestly I doubt either organization (ISCA or ISCO) have but a handful of folks (less than 100 and closer to 50) that give sh*t how this all turns out.  My experience is that sailors mostly want to sail.  Not help lawyers buy boats.  Give me access to charter boats, nice regatta locations, and an ability to keep my personal boat afloat and racing and I don't care what your organization name is or who you are affiliated with. This is recreation; not life or death... except maybe for Gouv. :P  I just want to sail with friends and have fun.  Oh, and free is better than not free!  But that's just me.  N of 1.  YMMV.

PS - You didn't need to join ISCO to see what they were up to or to get into or ask questions at the webinars... I speak from experience there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

Why is World Sailing meeting with an individual who is trying to destroy one of its member organizations?? 

Ultimately it will be nearly impossible for the Class Association to fulfil all its responsibilities if its at war with the copyright holder.  That's why I suspect that ISCA is in a very high risk position, and I fear has a low chance of prevailing. Not that they have a choice really, I don't think they can be reasonable representatives of their members if they are owned by LP. especially in the current circumstances.

I think its good that this meeting is in private, I don't think anything is ever improved by public meetings in which both sides are simply showboating to the audience.

What would be really entertaining would be if ISCOs members had an AGM and voted to disband the organisation or be taken over by ISCA...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The word you are looking for is "realist."  Titling at windmills ain't my thing. There are some things around grass roots sailing that you and I agree (I think) but that said nobody else is jumping on that bandwagon.  Not builders, not class associations, and not sailors at any level. 

In terms of this ISCA, ISCO, LP mess, the numbers are what they are and the outcome will be what it will be.  And the world will go on unchanged either way.

Its just sailing.

But we are kinda off the point of the thread which is the Sunfish, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a sign of a thaw in the freeze...  a statement from ISCO/LP:

"LP, ISCA and World Sailing enjoyed a very constructive and positive meeting in New York City on Monday the 8th of January. Because of the nature of this meeting LP will postpone their webinars schedule for Sunday the 14th and Monday the 15th of January for two weeks. Please be prepared to tune in on the 21st and 22nd of January."

They seem to have given themselves another 2 weeks to resolve things. Perhaps progress was made.  A similar statement from ISCA would further suggest some middle ground might exist but nothing posted from them presently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

You are right. Screw it!!

Geeze I gotta save that one before its purged too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Vic Manning died last night. Heart attack. No other information to share at this time 

Oh no!! I knew he and Pat when I was sailing Sunfish. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Details: He raced Sailboats Sunday

He went to bed Monday night and died while sleeping. 

He never lived a day as a sickly old invalid. He didn’t use up his life’s savings on terminal medical care. 

He left a whole lot of us with VERY fond memories 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Oh no!! I knew he and Pat when I was sailing Sunfish. 

He and Pat were a blast to be around during regattas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very sorry to hear the news about Vic. He and Pat were a great pair. Always friendly and helpful at regattas. They traveled the country with their Sunfish for many years and were stalwarts for the class.

RIP

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ISCA - The class leadership had a very productive meeting with representatives of Laser Performance and World Sailing in New York City on Monday January 8th.  We will update our membership and supporters as we continue to make progress towards a mutually beneficial agreement.

LP
 - LP, ISCA and World Sailing enjoyed a very constructive and positive meeting in New York City on Monday the 8th of January. Because of the nature of this meeting LP will postpone their webinars schedule for Sunday the 14th and Monday the 15th of January for two weeks. Please be prepared to tune in on the 21st and 22nd of January.

Well,  at least they agree on something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see light at the end of the tunnel. Just hope it’s not a train!!

WS will remain silent I am guessing but it still smells like progress!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2017 at 8:39 AM, IPLore said:

And if you want to claim that you own the IP on the word "Sunfish" as used in the title of a sailors' Association then you are going to have to take that up with these fine ladies.

14reunion05.thumb.jpg.982e542856dffc81b1c65de97196a6b6.jpg

 

I loved this post :)

Maybe IPL arranged for these 5 ladies to greet the negotiators at the hotel and explain to them carefully, in naval terms, that they needed to come to a solution.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2018 at 11:47 PM, frant said:

Poor old Laser Performance. Now they are blaming the loss of Hollywood Boulevard on them.

Well played LOL.  Not sure how many will get that but you made me laugh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now