• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

Cool boat. IDK if the price is realistic, but they don't make them anymore. I doubt the sails have much use left, but there's a lot of other good equipment included. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Watch the Cal 40 restoration series on YT. Gives you an idea.

yep.

 

Now, if you just love Cal 40s, sure, but don't expect it to be worth 1/2 the $s you put into it, and your time will be valued at $0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Watch the Cal 40 restoration series on YT. Gives you an idea.

That was a bottomless pocket, tax free project but he still never said what he spent IIRC.

Must have been well into 6 figures. He probably spent more on air fares crossing the country that I've spent in total on all my project boats.

Hell of a nice boat at the end though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They stole the companionway ladder idea from Burnsy and Shife!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw the YT Cal-40 when they launched it and spoke with the owner briefly.  Beautiful boat.  BMC did a great job.  The guy that did it "always wanted a Cal-40".  That is what it takes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That was a bottomless pocket, tax free project but he still never said what he spent IIRC.

Must have been well into 6 figures. He probably spent more on air fares crossing the country that I've spent in total on all my project boats.

Hell of a nice boat at the end though.

Yes, that one was to an extreme. I liked the guy who ran the boat yard, he was entertaining. They did not beat the other 40 in this years TransPac though. If I had the time and some of the money I would like to have a 40.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, See Level said:

Here's one more ready to go.

$18,500

No connection.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/cal-sailboat/6363815646.html

I saw that one. They turned the pilot berths into non-secure shelves?

Then there's that whole "The engine's covered in rust; let's just paint the whole thing blue including the fuel lines and everything else."

Probably another of those "If you get it for free, you might get half of what you put into it." projects.

Pretty much any Cal 40 is going to be in that condition. You want to buy one that someone else has restored (like Fred Cook's) and pay thirty cents on the dollar. Rule of thumb: buy the finished, restored project; don't do the restoration yourself unless you've got lots of cash and lots of time.

So sad.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

That was a bottomless pocket, tax free project but he still never said what he spent IIRC.

Must have been well into 6 figures. He probably spent more on air fares crossing the country that I've spent in total on all my project boats.

Hell of a nice boat at the end though.

I talked with him at the Annapolis boat show.   He said they spent $250K, and they still need to do some work on the interior.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

I saw that one. They turned the pilot berths into non-secure shelves?

Then there's that whole "The engine's covered in rust; let's just paint the whole thing blue including the fuel lines and everything else."

Probably another of those "If you get it for free, you might get half of what you put into it." projects.

Pretty much any Cal 40 is going to be in that condition. You want to buy one that someone else has restored (like Fred Cook's) and pay thirty cents on the dollar. Rule of thumb: buy the finished, restored project; don't do the restoration yourself unless you've got lots of cash and lots of time.

So sad.

 

You call them Pilot Berths, when we had a Cal 40 for two years we called those "Torpedo tubes." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, See Level said:

Here's one more ready to go.

$18,500

No connection.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/d/cal-sailboat/6363815646.html

Fewer hours on the motor, Max prop, radar, and I suspect better sails. 

Refurbing any 50 yo boat isn't going to be cheap or easy. But imo a Cal 40 is one worth doing if you have to do it. Wish I had the bucks to tit one out with new keel and everything. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 
"There is a single example of a raised deck Cal 40 similar to the Cal 25 & 28. Jensen Marine was promised a number of orders. All but one backed out at the last minute and only one was built and delivered."

 - Robert VanderPol II

Quote

RKoch - with new keel and everything

What and why.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they keep the keel and change the rudder.  A big issues with these boats is what they call the dreaded beam.  Lapworth specified stainless steel and Jensen used regular steel to save money.  It think it is like 50k to replace it.  Personally, I am happy with the wood version of the boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Heard about it and found this pic.

Cal 40 Flush Deck.jpg

The only one in existance. There is a great picture of it in our clubhouse during a snotty Swiftsure.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Blitz said:

The only one in existance. There is a great picture of it in our clubhouse during a snotty Swiftsure.  

Cal 25 on steroids. I imagine it opens-up the cabin quite a bit over the standard coach roof.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's Super cal ifragilisticexpialidocious!
Even though the sound of it
Is something quite atrocious
If you say it loud enough
You'll always sound precocious
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

It looks wonderful, but that was the first thing that came to mind upon seeing the picture.   It would be a good boat name for the next owner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Watch the Cal 40 restoration series on YT. Gives you an idea.

Thank you for the link. Wow this is my current mind. I have just started searching for cool vintage race boat that I can spend a couple of years restoring it to do Pacific Cup or Transpac on this will either inspire me or bring me to my senses. I have restored a couple of 15 to 20 year old J boats in the past. I did talk to the guy on the Cal 40 in Seattle but have not gone up to see it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Off Watch said:

Thank you for the link. Wow this is my current mind. I have just started searching for cool vintage race boat that I can spend a couple of years restoring it to do Pacific Cup or Transpac on this will either inspire me or bring me to my senses. I have restored a couple of 15 to 20 year old J boats in the past. I did talk to the guy on the Cal 40 in Seattle but have not gone up to see it. 

Go for it! Take lots of pictures, especially when you're crying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Heard about it and found this pic.

Cal 40 Flush Deck.jpg

White Squall, seen around here often. It looks even better in person. I am not being sarcastic, for some reason the flat top design works well on this long narrow boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Wow. That's awesome. Cal 40s are sweet boats. If I was ten years older and ten times richer....

I'd need to be 10 years younger.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

You call them Pilot Berths, when we had a Cal 40 for two years we called those "Torpedo tubes." 

I think you're thinking of the quarter berths--under the cockpit seats--which people called the torpedo tubes.

The pilot berths are outboard of the salon settees, higher, closer to the side decks, with generous mahogany bolsters so that you often didn't need lee cloths. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, RKoch said:

Better sailing performance. Keel design has improved a lot in the past 50 years.

You can't really change the keel on a Cal 40; it's part of the hull mold, not bolted on. Changing the keel would entail ripping out the entire midsection interior structure and engineering floors and more.

The replacement rudders were redesigned a few decades ago by Carl Schumaker, really help the boat, and are class-approved. http://www.fincofab.com/rudders.php

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Go for it! Take lots of pictures, especially when you're crying.

The truth is... all the restorations which have been worth a shit were done by guys with enough money that they could have bought a new J/121. And they spent close to the same amount of money. As cool as the boats are, they have some issues which are expensive to remedy. At least they can be patched up well enough to last another 40 years. And by today's standards, they just ain't very fast. Nor are they comfortable in a seaway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

The truth is... all the restorations which have been worth a shit were done by guys with enough money that they could have bought a new J/121. And they spent close to the same amount of money. As cool as the boats are, they have some issues which are expensive to remedy. At least they can be patched up well enough to last another 40 years. And by today's standards, they just ain't very fast. Nor are they comfortable in a seaway.

Some people just like to restore old stuff.  See it all the time with restored cars.  Someone spends hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on a resto, and sells it after for half of what he spent, because that's all it's worth.  Often as not, it's wash, rinse and repeat....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Some people just like to restore old stuff.  See it all the time with restored cars.  Someone spends hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on a resto, and sells it after for half of what he spent, because that's all it's worth.  Often as not, it's wash, rinse and repeat....

Yep.

Me, I’d pick up an old J125 and spend less than a rehab. Heck, mid90s 40’ IMS R/C boats in good shape are going for $100k now

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

You can't really change the keel on a Cal 40; it's part of the hull mold, not bolted on. Changing the keel would entail ripping out the entire midsection interior structure and engineering floors and more.

The replacement rudders were redesigned a few decades ago by Carl Schumaker, really help the boat, and are class-approved. http://www.fincofab.com/rudders.php

 

Cal 40 keels aren't bolted on? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No- not bolted on.  It's a lead block laid into the molded keel shape from inside/above.  Then glassed over.  Aft end of the keel is hollow for about 14-18 inches.  I had 1970 Hull #164 in CT which then went to San Diego and was renamed Nozomi.   The couple that bought it sailed it to hawaii DH in the Pacific Cup .  Twice I believe.

You can have a lot of fun and race competitively on these for a lot less than $250k.  The guy from Schaefer did a great job but he had unlimited funds and a desire to make a real gold-plater out of the boat he restored.  

There is a method to do the beam if it needs it and costs much less than $50k unless you just have a very expensive boatyard do it.

--Kevin

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Cal 40 keels aren't bolted on? 

Hull and keel in 1 molded piece

Montgomery Street had it done and they had to saw the whole bottom of the boat out and build a new one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the boat came out of the molds in two halves port-stbd and then glassed together, then ballast added and glassed in.

That is to say, if you saw one molded half it would look like a half hull model of the completed hull and keel.

 

--Kevin

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hull drawings, the lead is in the forward part of the keel and the rest is hollow or solid glass. They talked about the keel in the YT vids when it was first pulled and pressure washed. Shocked me how clean it came and left bottom paint mostly intact. Tons of blisters though.

 

cal40a02.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tiz said:

No- not bolted on.  It's a lead block laid into the molded keel shape from inside/above.  Then glassed over.  Aft end of the keel is hollow for about 14-18 inches.  I had 1970 Hull #164 in CT which then went to San Diego and was renamed Nozomi.   The couple that bought it sailed it to hawaii DH in the Pacific Cup .  Twice I believe.

You can have a lot of fun and race competitively on these for a lot less than $250k.  The guy from Schaefer did a great job but he had unlimited funds and a desire to make a real gold-plater out of the boat he restored.  

There is a method to do the beam if it needs it and costs much less than $50k unless you just have a very expensive boatyard do it.

--Kevin

 

 

Well son of a bitch. I didn't know that, thanks for the info. While that was very common in full-keel boats, pretty screwy way to build a fin keel boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the best restoration projects we did was a Cal 40 called Kimo. It had a swing keel that we replaced with Everdur bronze. Complete hull strip, blister repair,  barrier coated bottom LP everything from the boot stripes up. The interior was done with teak and holly inlays throughout the mahogany. Complete systems redo along with all standing and running rigging. We had Bill Lapworth down at the yard a couple of times.

They are beautiful boats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RKoch said:

Well son of a bitch. I didn't know that, thanks for the info. While that was very common in full-keel boats, pretty screwy way to build a fin keel boat.

It was done lots when keel designs were still big. I think a number of BP's Taiwan boats were like that. I had one like that a couple of boats ago.

It's only when the keel area has to be minimized that it doesn't work well. It's nice to not have to think about keel bolts and seam seals etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

 Nor are they comfortable in a seaway.

I own one of the 71 wooden prototypes of the Cal 40 called an L-36, and if you think they are not comfortable in a seaway then I suspect you have not sailed on one. I have had the boat racing both upwind and down on multiple occasions in conditions that were, to put it kindly, sprightly (45-75 knots). There is not a better boat available for a seaway except perhaps the QE2 now that the Normandie is unavailable. In addition to being sea-kindly they are simply some of the most pleasant boats that one might ever have the privilege to sail. Quick too! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious about when the made the change in things that have us talking about sensible uses of money and sailboats in the same sentence...or even the same language.

Cal 40 rocks!   If you have the "I need a Cal 40 disease", they are the only know cure.  The sensible use of money has zero to do with it.   If you've got the disease and can afford the cure...why stay sick on minute longer?

>Dog out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

I own one of the 71 wooden prototypes of the Cal 40 called an L-36, and if you think they are not comfortable in a seaway then I suspect you have not sailed on one. I have had the boat racing both upwind and down on multiple occasions in conditions that were, to put it kindly, sprightly (45-75 knots). There is not a better boat available for a seaway except perhaps the QE2 now that the Normandie is unavailable. In addition to being sea-kindly they are simply some of the most pleasant boats that one might ever have the privilege to sail. Quick too! 

 

Is this the one for sale on YW?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Delta Dog said:

I'm curious about when the made the change in things that have us talking about sensible uses of money and sailboats in the same sentence...or even the same language.

Cal 40 rocks!   If you have the "I need a Cal 40 disease", they are the only know cure.  The sensible use of money has zero to do with it.   If you've got the disease and can afford the cure...why stay sick on minute longer?

>Dog out.

 

Exactly.  A Cal 40 IS a sensible use of money.  Especially if you find one that someone else already restored.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, some dude said:

Exactly.  A Cal 40 IS a sensible use of money.  Especially if you find one that someone else already restored.  

The L-36 is an even better use of money since it is the same boat at 90% scale albeit with a different rudder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

The L-36 is an even better use of money since it is the same boat at 90% scale albeit with a different rudder.

Definitely beautiful boats and a close relation, but they're different boats.  Plus I'm not so good with the varnish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

The L-36 is an even better use of money since it is the same boat at 90% scale albeit with a different rudder.

So what is the story with the glass Cal 36?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect there is someone more well qualified than I am to answer your question. The Cal 36 was obviously glass at Jensen instead of mahogany at Chapman and Kalajian in Costa Mesa. I cannot be objective so I will say that the L-36 was faster and prettier. Did I mention that I cannot be objective?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

The L-36 is an even better use of money since it is the same boat at 90% scale albeit with a different rudder.

You are thinking of the Cal 36. It is a Lapworth design. Built by Jensen. Same basic lines as the 40. Like you sad: 90%. Same rudder. Same concept. I owned one for quite a while. The L-36 is popular too, but has a longer keel with keel-hung rudder. Wooden. A step along the way to the 40.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were a number of L-36's built here in strip plank. IIRC an airline pilot got a group together and they built 1/2 dozen or so.  AFAIK they are all or at least mostly still around - they seem to be well loved but come on the market from time to time and command pretty good prices - like in the $30's.

It seems to be a bit of a cult boat along the lines of the Concordias.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, daddle said:

You are thinking of the Cal 36. It is a Lapworth design. Built by Jensen. Same basic lines as the 40. Like you sad: 90%. Same rudder. Same concept. I owned one for quite a while. The L-36 is popular too, but has a longer keel with keel-hung rudder. Wooden. A step along the way to the 40.

I do not wish to be contrary, but I am not thinking of the Cal 36. I am thinking of the Lapworth 36 which is also a Lapworth design of similar vintage. She has exactly the same lines as the Cal 40 but with a different rudder. There were 71 built at Chapman and Kalajian in Costa Mesa between 1953 and 1965 and were the hot-shit one design of their day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have sailed something like 13k miles on a Cal 36, and of course several times on Cal 40s and much of the other Cal boats. The Cal 36 has almost identical lines to a Cal 40, almost identical abilities when seas get tough. They have very good handling qualities, but I would definitely recommend a new better rudder (contact Finco Fabrication as mentioned above). The stock rudder was a heavy helm and stalled suddenly, as anyone will remember well. They are wet boats, as they have very low freeboard compared to modern boats. They sure pound upwind a lot worse than an S&S or most anything cruisy.

These boats were very sticky in light air. The mast is almost comically too short. I would raise the mast by at least two meters, maybe four. Then you won’t need a 180 genoa, which was the norm on these boats and important up to about 18 fucking knots of breeze. That is the hateful part of these boats that people work hard to forget.

There are always potential structural issues on any boat. If its 50 years old, expect them.

The beam under the mast has been mentioned. I would be very surprised if it did not need to be replaced (unless it was already done in SS). Many have been replaced. Dennis Choate did one recently.

I have not personally fixed one, but I did fix the similar one on a Ranger 1-Ton after a structural failure in heavy conditions. Not hard. Cut some almost nonstructural glass across the top and forward side of what looks like a fiberglass beam under the mast, remove and replace the beam and bolts, glass the cut bit back in, sand, gelcoat, polish. You'll have to remove the head and mast first of course. On the Ranger, fabricated the new beam of multiple pieces of aluminum so it was easier to install, as that much steel in one piece is a bitch. Alloy was a piece of cake.

Lots of plywood in those boats: the whole deck core, deck beams, cockpit supports, keel bulkheads (very critical and very possibly soggy).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, carcrash said:

I have sailed something like 13k miles on a Cal 36, and of course several times on Cal 40s and much of the other Cal boats. The Cal 36 has almost identical lines to a Cal 40, almost identical abilities when seas get tough. They have very good handling qualities, but I would definitely recommend a new better rudder (contact Finco Fabrication as mentioned above). The stock rudder was a heavy helm and stalled suddenly, as anyone will remember well. They are wet boats, as they have very low freeboard compared to modern boats. They sure pound upwind a lot worse than an S&S or most anything cruisy.

These boats were very sticky in light air. The mast is almost comically too short. I would raise the mast by at least two meters, maybe four. Then you won’t need a 180 genoa, which was the norm on these boats and important up to about 18 fucking knots of breeze. That is the hateful part of these boats that people work hard to forget.

There are always potential structural issues on any boat. If its 50 years old, expect them.

The beam under the mast has been mentioned. I would be very surprised if it did not need to be replaced (unless it was already done in SS). Many have been replaced. Dennis Choate did one recently.

I have not personally fixed one, but I did fix the similar one on a Ranger 1-Ton after a structural failure in heavy conditions. Not hard. Cut some almost nonstructural glass across the top and forward side of what looks like a fiberglass beam under the mast, remove and replace the beam and bolts, glass the cut bit back in, sand, gelcoat, polish. You'll have to remove the head and mast first of course. On the Ranger, fabricated the new beam of multiple pieces of aluminum so it was easier to install, as that much steel in one piece is a bitch. Alloy was a piece of cake.

Lots of plywood in those boats: the whole deck core, deck beams, cockpit supports, keel bulkheads (very critical and very possibly soggy).

You have raised many good points in a civilized manner for which I thank you. If you would permit I might make a few responses:

"They are wet boats, as they have very low freeboard compared to modern boats. They sure pound upwind a lot worse than an S&S or most anything cruisy."

I suppose this is a fair point; they were and are racing boats with the option to cruise. Having said that Cal 40's, Cal 36's and Lapworth 36's have cruised around the world pretty successfully.

"The mast is almost comically too short. I would raise the mast by at least two meters, maybe four. Then you won’t need a 180 genoa, which was the norm on these boats and important up to about 18 fucking knots of breeze. That is the hateful part of these boats that people work hard to forget."

The short mast & long boom were CCA optimizations and, IMHO, less harmful than the pinched stern and weird hollows of the IOR days. Perhaps YMMV. We ditched the 180% a long time ago in favor of a 155%, but in fairness we normally sail in San Francisco where we generally have fresh breeze. In breeze stronger than 18 knots the #3 is quicker upwind. I am not entirely certain that I understand the "hateful" part of your remark; do you mean that the boats can develop weather helm on certain points of sail? That is true.

I am not certain that I understand your point about plywood; at least in the case of my boat we do not have any original ply.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the plywood comment is in reference to the Csl-40.  I recall talking to Sally when she and Stan we're restoring Illusion.  She said they poured gallons of get-rot in the hull.  The boats have inner and outer glass layers with plywood between.  This makes them lighter and stronger than a solid glass hull.  Ok, that is just wrong... lighter for the same strength or stronger for the same weight. Better... But the wood rots thus the get-rot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

I do not wish to be contrary, but I am not thinking of the Cal 36. I am thinking of the Lapworth 36 which is also a Lapworth design of similar vintage. She has exactly the same lines as the Cal 40 but with a different rudder. There were 71 built at Chapman and Kalajian in Costa Mesa between 1953 and 1965 and were the hot-shit one design of their day. 

Yes, they are all very similar. The Cal 36 is the one of the same vintage, construction, appearance, and parts commonality as the Cal 40. Looks just like a 40 until one gets close or counts the ports. The Lapworth 36 is 10 years older, 1953, of wood. The cabin, keel, and rudder are completely different. The beam is narrower. However the hull lines are quite similar.

I know the hull layup of the Cal 36 is solid laminate a half inch thick...or less. I assume the 40 is comparable The decks are plywood cored. House sides have no ply. On the plus side, whenever I cut into the ply on my Cal 36 I was impressed at the quality of the ply. Unlike contemporary materials it was heavy with pitch...smelled like new wood. I never had any significant rot even where stanchion bases had been damp for the better part of her 30 years.

The 36's mast "beam" is flawed. Way too flexible. It is just laminate and haphazard wood blocking. The shrouds are inboard which exacerbates the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About 25 years ago I helped a couple guys rebuild a Cal 2-24. Deck was cored with plywood, which was rotten and delaminated. It was a mess. Recored deck with balsa. Rebuilt under mast step and added a compression post. Did several other spot repairs, and tabbed the pan to the hull where we could reach. Hull was solid glass. I assume other Cals of that era were similar construction. 

also moved chainplates inboard a few inches, shortened spreaders likewise. Modified plate section of keel to a foil shape. PHRF was very unhappy and slammed the rating, but the boat was not far off the pace of local J-24s. It won a MORC Midwinters, beating all the newer boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, RKoch said:

About 25 years ago I helped a couple guys rebuild a Cal 2-24. Deck was cored with plywood, which was rotten and delaminated. It was a mess. Recored deck with balsa. Rebuilt under mast step and added a compression post. Did several other spot repairs, and tabbed the pan to the hull where we could reach. Hull was solid glass. I assume other Cals of that era were similar construction. 

also moved chainplates inboard a few inches, shortened spreaders likewise. Modified plate section of keel to a foil shape. PHRF was very unhappy and slammed the rating, but the boat was not far off the pace of local J-24s. It won a MORC Midwinters, beating all the newer boats.

Bill Lapworth was a genius and shaped yacht design for decades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mookiesurfs said:

“Swell” is a Cal 40 putatively sailing and surfing its way around the world

Liz Clark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, some dude said:

Hull and keel in 1 molded piece

Montgomery Street had it done and they had to saw the whole bottom of the boat out and build a new one

Montgomery Street spent the winter of '83 at Cal Coast Marine getting a major refit under the watchful eye of Les Harlander NA. Bravura was in there at the same time getting "De-Choate'ed". I think we removed about 500 lbs in bondo and filler when installing a new cockpit and stern cutout. The boat was much improved and went on to win Transpac and many other Pacific events, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nick G said:

Bravura was in there at the same time getting "De-Choate'ed". I think we removed about 500 lbs in bondo and filler when installing a new cockpit and stern cutout. The boat was much improved and went on to win Transpac and many other Pacific events, 

Which Bravura?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lapworth hit a home run with the Cal 40 and the immediate follow-up designs were attempts to scale up and scale down that successful design, but not entirely with the hoped-for results. The Cal 36 was supposed to be a more-or-less rule-beater Cal 40 and a lot of the 4 feet was eliminated by simply leaving off the lazarette and ending the boat at the traveler. That is not to say that the lines weren't scaled as well. In the other direction, the Cal 48 was supposed to be a longer, faster Cal 40 that never took off. As far as I know, the only one that ever did anything on the race course was Salicia sailed by Tom Corkett.

Then some guys took a chainsaw to a Cal 40 and came up with the Cal 37 named Conquest (complete with USC Tommy Trojan spinnaker) and that was successful. They added a bowsprit to get a bigger J and thus bigger chutes. I think they actually shortened the mast a bit, all for the rating. Conquest was as fast as a stock Cal 40 in most conditions but rated less. 

But all that happened as the IOR was catching on and those boats optimized for CCA could never cut it under IOR. Anyone that had a new Cal 40 built to race in 1970 was sorely disappointed.

The Cal 40 is one of those magic boats where the proportions and balance simply made a winner. It was the J/35 of the day. Race a Cal 40 and you WOULD get a trophy. The Cal 36 and 48 were not that way. When they did trophy, it was because of good sailors; the designs just weren't all that fast or user-friendly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Aren't the lines to the Cal 39 very similar to the 40?

No, not in the least. The 39 is a heavy pig. I'm referring to the later 39, from the 80s. There's an earlier one im not familiar with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My brother and I rebuilt Dad's CAL40 Belle Aurore in the late 90's.  We beat it pretty hard with a checkbook and it was cherry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have one of the few Cal 40s on the right coast. If this is a nearly original copy with dry decks it could be a great find for someone willing to invest some cash and a little elbow grease. Keep it simple. Keep it light. Unfortunately there are some weird looking "upgrades" that would have to be undone: Formica fetish interior, too many instrument holes to be filled in bulkhead, butchered teak, bathtub drain at wrong end of cockpit (???) and what's with the 2 fill ports in the cockpit sole? Could that be water and fuel right next to each other.  (Reminds me of that old assholes and vaginas joke.). 

In the comments above it sounds like anyone who has owned or spent sea time on a Cal 40 has good things to say about them, and the haters never stepped aboard one in their lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, XBN said:

My brother and I rebuilt Dad's CAL40 Belle Aurore in the late 90's.  We beat it pretty hard with a checkbook and it was cherry.

Belle Aurore is indeed a beauty!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, allene222 said:

I think the plywood comment is in reference to the Csl-40.  I recall talking to Sally when she and Stan we're restoring Illusion.  She said they poured gallons of get-rot in the hull.  The boats have inner and outer glass layers with plywood between.  This makes them lighter and stronger than a solid glass hull.  Ok, that is just wrong... lighter for the same strength or stronger for the same weight. Better... But the wood rots thus the get-rot

Only the deck is cored. And yes, with plywood, before anyone knew any better. The hull is hand laid weave and roving, 5/8" thick at the keel, thinner as you go up.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/15/2017 at 10:12 AM, tiz said:

I believe the boat came out of the molds in two halves port-stbd and then glassed together, then ballast added and glassed in.

That is to say, if you saw one molded half it would look like a half hull model of the completed hull and keel.

 

--Kevin

 

Nah, mold was split, hull made in 1 piece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/15/2017 at 10:24 AM, ~HHN92~ said:

Hull drawings, the lead is in the forward part of the keel and the rest is hollow or solid glass. They talked about the keel in the YT vids when it was first pulled and pressure washed. Shocked me how clean it came and left bottom paint mostly intact. Tons of blisters though.

 

cal40a02.jpg

Similar profile to the Van de Stadt Pionier 9 

1967-pioneer-9-metre--6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re the 180% comment: Tacking those things was a major pain. I mean, we didn’t complain because they were cool boats and we were teenagers, but I’d never do it again. It was all a CCA rating ploy, not something actually sensible. Like nearly all boats raced under rating rules, especially half a century ago, they were well under canvassed.

Modern boats without overlapping headsails make way more sense: more drive (better lift to drag) for a given amount of sail cloth (money).

Re the plywood on Cal boats: you should check its condition. That isn't hate, its just a heads-up.

I am not a hater, by the way. I really love those boats. I am just pointing out the issues that are usually glossed over.

Go into a refit with one’s eyes open and a lot more cash than you think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, carcrash said:

Re the 180% comment: Tacking those things was a major pain. I mean, we didn’t complain because they were cool boats and we were teenagers, but I’d never do it again. It was all a CCA rating ploy, not something actually sensible. Like nearly all boats raced under rating rules, especially half a century ago, they were well under canvassed.

Modern boats without overlapping headsails make way more sense: more drive (better lift to drag) for a given amount of sail cloth (money).

Re the plywood on Cal boats: you should check its condition. That isn't hate, its just a heads-up.

I am not a hater, by the way. I really love those boats. I am just pointing out the issues that are usually glossed over.

Go into a refit any boating-related activity with one’s eyes open and a lot more cash than you think.

But a refit especially.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, carcrash said:

Re the 180% comment: Tacking those things was a major pain. I mean, we didn’t complain because they were cool boats and we were teenagers, but I’d never do it again. It was all a CCA rating ploy, not something actually sensible. Like nearly all boats raced under rating rules, especially half a century ago, they were well under canvassed.

Modern boats without overlapping headsails make way more sense: more drive (better lift to drag) for a given amount of sail cloth (money).

If I may, with respect, make an observation: the 180% was a Southern California thing. In Northern California we never used the 180%. A 155% was (and still is) sufficient. I believe that a full main with 155% genoa is a very efficient rig. Fortunately there is still sufficient teenage fodder to tack the damn things.

If you believe they are under canvassed I invite you to helm my boat DDW in 30 knots of breeze :-) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites