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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Outboards are considered quicker.  A fair number of the inboards were converted, i.e. the motor was removed, strut opening glassed over.  For most racing, there is no reefing, though if only PHRF some may have usable reefs in the main.  Most mains made for one design racing have reef grommets, but they are not reinforced.  We race with 5, so single handed it may be a bit tender.  With 5 on board, cross over from No. 1 to No. 3 is about 19 knots apparent.

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Agree to all above. Very solid and reliable boats, with no big faults. We had five on board for this year’s Mug Race and at times it was blowing 30, we were down to the #3 and a reef in the main, and it was a blast. Big smiles all around and lots of hoots and hollers. Are you going to race or cruise?

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If you are single or short handing...the equivalent of racing crew weight ...internal ballast (lead)  the bilges will be not far off the effect of human crew on the rail

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Had mine for 19 years. Been sailing on 7.9's since 1982.

Since most of my sailing, year round, is double handed and beer can racing in PHRF, I just converted to roller furling. Had Doyle/Boston build me a 135% jib, love it. Makes life so  much easier for the wife and myself, as we sail weekly.

Only question the boss asks is why we didn't do this sooner.

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1 hour ago, mookiesurfs said:

Are you going to race or cruise?

Primarily race. 3 maybe 4 up with an asso. (if there's enough crew and they are familiar w/symmetrical then maybe if situation warrants). Singlehanded racing w/cruising secondary.

Quote

internal ballast (lead)  the bilges will be not far off the effect of human crew on the rail

It's not arranged close to centerline? :huh: 

Quote

135% jib, love it

How you reckon this would work for singlehanding, going to a reef first as wind picks up? 

Though I do sail in PNW so a 135 ain't gonna' cut it most days..

Boat in question has the Yanmar inboard which interests me and that may seem counterintuitive as I want to maximize racing potential but I just get weary thinking of having to fuck around w/an outboard and cavitation while cruising w/a non sailor. 

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I shorthand my S2 7.9 on SF Bay. Now, that said, I've only been out there one season and I'm still learning about the boat.  I learned long, long ago that when solo, a 150% jib is pointless, because unless it's blowing <5 knots, or you're going to be going in a straight line for more than an hour, every time you tack, you lose distance.   If I make half a mile on  the competition during the reaching leg with that 150%, I'll lose it all short-tacking up the Cityfront in 20 knots.  It just doesn't pay.  Now, with 4-5 people on the boat...

We did a YRA PHRF race weekend  just myself and one other sailor on the boat each day, recently. The "other" sailors were good, lots of experience and we flew the 135% and got killed. I mean, slaughtered, like laughingly so.  Part of that is on me with sail trim, but part is needing weight and the ability to fly that #1.

My experience has been that the huge main overpowers the boat very quickly when the wind pipes up. So have at least one reef point. I've double-reefed a couple of times this season, but only when it was stupid-windy, like 30 knots beating up to San Francisco from my marina. On Puget Sound you can probably get away with one reef, and a dinky headsail on windy days. I've got Harken EPS roller furling and I love it.

I think you'll find that the ENORMOUS rudder controls the boat well, but if you let go of it for half a second, you will round up instantly.  For a singlehander, that's a problem. Otherwise, the boat sails really well. It's not a planing rocketship but it's steady and I can usually sail it to it's 165 rating, compared to other shorthanded boats on the Bay.  We're always in the hunt, anyway.

Both the daggerboard and fixed keel models have the big daggerboard case in the middle of the boat. I suppose it contributes to the rigidity of the structure, but pics I've seen of at least one fixed-keel model show that a lot of the case is cut out to make, I dunno..."shelves"... for storing dinnerware or something. Whatever, that case really affects the ability of the boat to be comfortably cruised. Honestly, only a tiny woman will be able to fit in the head compartment, and I'll tell you right now that my wife won't use that head.   I may just take it completely out of my boat, seeing as I have a porta-potti in there, tubed up to a little removable porta-tank.  What I think would be absolutely sweet is an S2 7.9 fixed keel WITHOUT the daggerboard case structure but I don't think they exist.

I sail in the South Bay kind of a lot and we have some thinn-ish water down here and it's nice to go *bump* and then just wind the daggerboard up 8 inches and sail off the mud.  Other than that I don't really care about the lifting board.  However, the guys and gals on the Great Lakes or in the midwest where marina's are really shallow absolutely love the fact that the boat can sit in a foot of water.  We had a place in south Puget Sound, on the Case Inlet for many years and the tidal cycles were big. Our islands docks were almost dry during really low tides, and in 16-20 feet of water at high tides. Anyway if you're down in Olympia or something I can see the point of having the daggerboard and lifting rudder.  If you're in Port Townsend, then maybe not so much.

I have a 6 hp 4-cycle OB on a lifting mount on the back and it pushes the boat along just fine. I know another guy who has an 8 hp and my boat actually came with a 100+ pound Honda 8 hp with an alternator. That thing was a *Monster*, I'm glad I sold it.  If I was doing more cruising, it'd be nice to have the diesel, so don't pull it out if it's still working and you want to do some cruising, but the consensus in the class is that even with the rating compensation, the outboard model wins on speed.

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BTW, my 6 hp is a regular shaft. I wish it were long shaft, but I got a deal on it. I lowered the bracket on the transom,  and the outboard stays in the water just fine, now as long as I'm in the cockpit.  Even in some chop, it's fine.    Go up on the foredeck, though and it cavitates really badly.

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24 minutes ago, Alan H said:

What I think would be absolutely sweet is an S2 7.9 fixed keel WITHOUT the daggerboard case structure but I don't think they exist.

I owned one from 1986, #455 masthead rig, fixed keel, outboard. IIRC, there were 8 built. 

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50 minutes ago, Alan H said:

 What I think would be absolutely sweet is an S2 7.9 fixed keel WITHOUT the daggerboard case structure but I don't think they exist.  

If I could find one I'd take a sawzall and make it that way.

Quote

 

 

Quote

IIRC, there were 8 built. 

Sailboatdata thinks 17. Just sayin'..........How did it go?

Looks clean, eh?............

1

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I've owned six keel boats over the years ranging from a Shark, Kirby 25 and large C&C. Now own an S2 7.9. It's the best built and sweetest sailing boat of the bunch. (Kirby 25 is a close second). We do very well in all of the local PHRF racing. The boat is a demon upwind often outpacing larger boats. We do, from to time, think we might want something larger but always come to the conclusion that the 7.9 really is an ideal boat. We never hesitate to head out across Lake Erie as we have complete confidence in the boat to get us through any weather.  The S2 does everything very well. And they hold their value.

 

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3 minutes ago, commotion said:

I've owned six keel boats over the years ranging from a Shark, Kirby 25 and large C&C. Now own an S2 7.9. It's the best built and sweetest sailing boat of the bunch. (Kirby 25 is a close second). We do very well in all of the local PHRF racing. The boat is a demon upwind often outpacing larger boats. We do, from to time, think we might want something larger but always come to the conclusion that the 7.9 really is an ideal boat. We never hesitate to head out across Lake Erie as we have complete confidence in the boat to get us through any weather.  The S2 does everything very well. And they hold their value.

 

Grosse Ile, where S2 7.9s go to die.

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9 hours ago, Alan H said:

BTW, my 6 hp is a regular shaft. I wish it were long shaft, but I got a deal on it. I lowered the bracket on the transom,  and the outboard stays in the water just fine, now as long as I'm in the cockpit.  Even in some chop, it's fine.    Go up on the foredeck, though and it cavitates really badly.

this is real thing on the OB models, even in flat water some regular shaft motors require you to sit way back in the cockpit for operation. cavitation and water intake for cooling can be an issue. In chop we would sometimes sit someone on the motor to limit the motor coming out of the water as much as possible, we only use the short shaft motor when the regular motor is in the shop.   

 

 

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I have the 6HP extra long shaft. I believe it's made for sailboats.

Motor stays in the water, even in waves. Motors great.

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Ha ha demon up wind it is! We were beer can racing one night against about 20 boats, and upwind our novice rail meat looks at all the other boats way behind/below us and says “Where are they going?”.  Bow/wife smiles a big smile, and says “Upwind, same as us”.  She is never going to let me sell this boat.

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Sailed on for 5-6 years.  Awesome boat.   Very well balanced and easy to run.  They like weight upwind.  When we put the 250lb owner on the rail and let a little kid drive it was worth about .4 knots.  Also, it's so simple and sails so well that you can let a little kid drive.

the owner still regularly wins and sails that boat over faster boats just because it's easy and fun.

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11 hours ago, By the lee said:

If I could find one I'd take a sawzall and make it that way.

 

Sailboatdata thinks 17. Just sayin'..........How did it go?

Looks clean, eh?............

1

That one has been on Puget Sound Craigslist for a while. Note that it has a stern pushpit instead of the 1-D loopy thingamabobs for the lifelines.  I don't know if the masthead boats came that way or if this is a retrofit. Personally, I will be putting a pulpit on mine in the near future.  Also, the ladder is on the other side of the rudder. Hmmm.

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

That one has been on Puget Sound Craigslist for a while. Note that it has a stern pushpit instead of the 1-D loopy thingamabobs for the lifelines.  I don't know if the masthead boats came that way or if this is a retrofit. Personally, I will be putting a pulpit on mine in the near future.  Also, the ladder is on the other side of the rudder. Hmmm.

Maybe just the inboard boats have the pushpit? Looks like there is an engine panel on that image.

RE number of fixed keel boats.... There was a mix of equip. I think 8 OB MH with only 2 pipe berths below. Not sure about the remaining 9, if some had regular interior from the DB boat  (which may have retained the trunk as a head divider) 

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I mostly single hand my 7.9 (#445) - use the #3 head sail, you really do not lose very much; recently did the 22.5 nautical mile circular Kelleys Island Challenge and averaged 5.6 Kts. 

Get an EXTRA long shaft OB, many boats have had parts supply issues with the old BMW diesels. 

Have someone look it over carefully - many have water intrusion issues around the cockpit winches, mast step, transom, chain plates, stanchions. It pays to spend more and not have to do these expensive repairs. 

Class web site also lists 7.9's for sale    http://s279.org/

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I was warned to especially check the bulkhead below the starboard chainplate, and the transom anywhere a bolt goes through it. I got lucky, mine is solid as a rock.

Mine had all the interior carpeting liner ripped out, which is great. I can see the glasswork and it's very good, as good as the legendary stuff cranked out in Santa Cruz during the Olson/Santa Cruz/Express heyday.  Solid boats. I am impressed.

BTW, a couple of months ago there were two 7.9's listed on Puget Sound CL. One was in BC, the one you're looking at, and the other one was on a lake somewhere in the Eastern part of the state, or maybe in Idaho.  That one was an outboard boat and had a non One Design rudder.

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4 hours ago, Alan H said:

 Eastern part of the state, or maybe in Idaho.  That one was an outboard boat and had a non One Design rudder.

 Flathead Lake I think?  I remember looking at that, thought it over and decided I couldn't live with interior. lol....

Quote

Have someone look it over carefully

Survey for sure. 

 

Which has more drag prop and shaft or saildrive?

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We raced Ruger, MH/Fixed keel in 2000, at KWRW.

I sailed #496, in one design trim. IIRC we got 12 spm in PHRF. Not nearly enough as Ruger was way faster than we were. 

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12 hours ago, By the lee said:

Wonder where this one ended up..... https://www.uship.com/shipment/S2-79-Sailboat/168027379/

resize.php?path=%2fstatic%2fd2fcd62e-ad6c-4710-9.jpg

What was wrong with ^^that^^ why did they go to a Henderson keel?

Image result for S2 7.9

Several 7.9s were regularly raced MORC and some were modified. Henderson did a keel for at least 1. There was also several boats originally built with fixed keels, Glenn may have provided templates for refairing.

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A while ago I did a search for  "free S2 7.9"  and found a flickr  picture album of a fixed keel boat completely filled with.....ice.

But you can see some details in the part that above or outside the frozen stuff....like the cut-out daggerboard case.

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Here's the ice-filled "free S-2 7.9" album.  Hey, dump the upholstery, toss the engine, glass over the shaft opening... then probably replace all the buklheads and you have a GREAT boat.  Of course this was 10 years ago...
 

Free Sailboat - 25'11" S2 7.9

 

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Recore the deck around both side stays, recore the deck under the mast step.  Where the hell is the back stay on that boat?  Remove the furling, get new sails with hanks, get a new outboard, basically blow $15k.

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Recore the deck around both side stays

This is what concerns me. Look above at post #13. In all the pics of the boat in the ad from all angles there's a dark area around where the chain plates enter the deck both port and starboard. A.H. said it'd been on the market some time. Hmmmmmmmm......... 

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Most S2 racers of the period now have areas of the deck that will need recoring.  I know my 9.1 did, as did other 9.1s.  I'd expect the 7.9s to be the same.  Little to no isolation of the balsa core where ever deck gear was/is mounted.  Most previous owners probably didn't rebed as often as they should have.  Where the chainplates come thru the deck, the mast base, foredeck, cockpit sole, under winches.  Anywhere there was load.  

It's not atypical, and not limited to S2s.  J/Boats, Pearson Flyers, Tartan Tens, etc of that era all have the same issues...

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3 hours ago, Crash said:

Most S2 racers of the period now have areas of the deck that will need recoring.  I know my 9.1 did, as did other 9.1s.  I'd expect the 7.9s to be the same.  Little to no isolation of the balsa core where ever deck gear was/is mounted.  Most previous owners probably didn't rebed as often as they should have.  Where the chainplates come thru the deck, the mast base, foredeck, cockpit sole, under winches.  Anywhere there was load.  

It's not atypical, and not limited to S2s.  J/Boats, Pearson Flyers, Tartan Tens, etc of that era all have the same issues...

deck1.jpg.33fda49c2abf31ef9cab1ef774dc95f4.jpg

yep.....they all need recoring ;-)

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26 minutes ago, dacapo said:

deck1.jpg.33fda49c2abf31ef9cab1ef774dc95f4.jpg

yep.....they all need recoring ;-)

Thats ugly, but a couple of things. That is a blanket statement that is not true and I would have removed it from the bottom and replaced the head liner. you would never have seen it and had to match the deck non skid.

I rescued a boat half sunk in North Carolina and she was very solid except for the stantion base which was an easy fix. 

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50 minutes ago, dyslexic dog said:

Thats ugly, but a couple of things. That is a blanket statement that is not true and I would have removed it from the bottom and replaced the head liner. you would never have seen it and had to match the deck non skid.

I rescued a boat half sunk in North Carolina and she was very solid except for the stantion base which was an easy fix. 

i removed all from the top as I redid all the non skid with kiwi grip....my deck is solid as a rock now....and look sgreat

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I have an inboard, I made all the headsails ~107% so I can singlehand or just sail with my wife (we both have bad backs and didn't want to hassle with an overlapping genoa), I kept the roller furling unit that came with it (the boat was actually a cruiser when I got it, ripped a ton of wind gear off the top of the mast) so mark roundings are a breeze, took off the bow pulpit (with the intention of going to an A sail at some point) and put in a masthead sheave so I have a masthead kite.  The boat sails very nicely, lots of room below and is pretty competitive on the water.

http://www.dbaxterphotography.com/Doyle_Sailmakers_Rhode_Island/Pages/EGYCAnnualRegatta2017.html#263

http://www.dbaxterphotography.com/Doyle_Sailmakers_Rhode_Island/Pages/EGYCAnnualRegatta2017.html#288

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2 hours ago, dyslexic dog said:

Thats ugly, but a couple of things. That is a blanket statement that is not true and I would have removed it from the bottom and replaced the head liner. you would never have seen it and had to match the deck non skid.

I rescued a boat half sunk in North Carolina and she was very solid except for the stantion base which was an easy fix. 

It is indeed a completely unfair and inaccurate statement. I own an '82  7.9 and the deck is rock solid simply because at any sign of water intrusion I take the brief amount of time to address the issue. I have never had to re-core any portion of the deck. The S2 is an extremely well built boat and is no more prone to balsa  failure than any other boat including major builders with a reputation for quality. 

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So I was in no way trying to cast aspersions on S2's or their quality.  I loved my 9.1.  But that said, I know from taking my deck apart, and it looked just like Decapo's...that S2, like all the major quality builders at the time did little to isolate the core from penetrations.  Therefore, over the next 35 years, many of them have developed wet core in the decks.  That's a critic of previous owners, not of the boats themselves.  But new, potential owners should be aware that it is an issue for many (not all) boats from that timeframe.

OBTW, wet balsa retains 90 something percent of its strength.  So if the skin has not delaminated, the deck will feel solid as a rock.   And be very strong.  

Pulling all the carpet down and doing that much deck from below is a huge PITA.  I, like Decapo, did mine from above and redid the non-skid in Kiwi Grip.  

Here's the map of my deck that I did when I was selling the boat after my wife accepted a job in California 

Deck_Repaired Areas and remaining Wet Areas.png

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On 11/17/2017 at 11:17 AM, Dex Sawash said:

Maybe just the inboard boats have the pushpit? Looks like there is an engine panel on that image.

 

Not exactly.  My inboard 7.9 does't have one.  I think the pushpit was just an option at one point.

20171009_111937.jpg

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Photo posted by Decapo is not an S2 7.9 

Hey Grrr, if you send me the info on your 7.9 that is for sale, I'll pass it around. 

The 7.9 web site has tons of information on just about any repair that you might make - it's a good idea to look it over before you buy one of them. 

    Look at "core repair" for example. 

Most 7.9's are now over 30 years old - just about all of them need some sort of work. 

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2 hours ago, Looper said:

Not exactly.  My inboard 7.9 does't have one.  I think the pushpit was just an option at one point.

20171009_111937.jpg

As a driver the boat is SO much more comfortable to drive in the above configuration. Also I believe that this config was standard and a the stern rail was an option.

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My boat has the stern rail. I modified the rail so the center section opens up, closed off with a piece of height tech line.Had access to a custom fab shop, for many years.

Years ago I  welded on a half round, where the lifeline hooks to. Same height as the non stern rail.

Without  the stern rail I wouldn't have a place to hook my BBQ grill. Along with racing, an overnight, every once in a while, with friends, can be fun, in Florida. For us it is truly a duel purpose boat.

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2 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Photo posted by Decapo is not an S2 7.9 

Hey Grrr, if you send me the info on your 7.9 that is for sale, I'll pass it around. 

The 7.9 web site has tons of information on just about any repair that you might make - it's a good idea to look it over before you buy one of them. 

    Look at "core repair" for example. 

Most 7.9's are now over 30 years old - just about all of them need some sort of work. 

He never said it was, it's a pic of the deck of his 9.1.

Sheesh, you guys are touchy...

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14 hours ago, Crash said:

He never said it was, it's a pic of the deck of his 9.1.

Sheesh, you guys are touchy...

it's November   ;-)   

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16 hours ago, By the lee said:

Flooded Frozen Inside of the Free Sailboat

The hell can you do with that?

I'd say lace up the CCMs and practice your triple dekes.

16 hours ago, By the lee said:

Sal/Looper, how do you do against the outboard boats?

Sal, does masthead chute make up for dragging inboard gear through the water?

TBD from my end.  I just bought the boat in August and it won't go in the water until the spring.  From what I've read, the outboards are faster, but not so much faster that a botched tack, wrong shift or circus-like sail change wouldn't have a greater impact on your results than a small folding propeller and prop shaft.

For now i'm going to attempt to race the boat in IB configuration until it's clear that i'm not making the podium as a result of said engine.  

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There's a dude on Facebook "Unbridled Sailing" that makes 24-inch tall lifeline loops for the stern, if you're not keen on the shorties that come with the boat. I may get these and then have my buddy who welds put a crossbar across the back of the boat with a couple of stanchions. This is for the solar panels of course.

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

There's a dude on Facebook "Unbridled Sailing" that makes 24-inch tall lifeline loops for the stern, if you're not keen on the shorties that come with the boat. I may get these and then have my buddy who welds put a crossbar across the back of the boat with a couple of stanchions. This is for the solar panels of course.

If you want full size stern rail go to whitewater marine in Port Huron MI. They have made them since the begining of time.

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15 minutes ago, Peacefrog said:

If you want full size stern rail go to whitewater marine in Port Huron MI. They have made them since the begining of time.

Yeah, but be ready to pay.  No knock on whitewater's quality - they turn out top notch work.  But when I priced out a bow pulpit their quote was pretty expensive.

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Yes the boat is tender.  As with most posts if you're single handing stick with a small jib and get reef points in the main.  I believe class rules allow 1,100 lbs of crew weight and if you look at some crew pics you'll see some big guys in them or smaller 6 person crews.

As with most boats flat is fast. 

It is an upwind machine.  DW it likes lower angles with the board up at least half way, but don't take it up more than 3/4 or you'll loose directional stability.

Great boats. 

 

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I know this is an 7.9 thread but if your looking for something a little bigger there is a 9.1 in Charleston for sale in good condition for a very!! reasonable price. Boat is sitting on a trailer ready to be delivered. I bought an ad but it ran out!

 

Pm me if your interested

Matt

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Man, I've got an international border and two - in your case 3 (!) - mountain ranges between me and all these boats. And winter's comin' on.

Except for the one up the coast. 

Sail 'em like a Laser d/w. Really?

Quote

1,100 lbs of crew weight.....6 person 

Ugh. That's an issue in this town.

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