southerncross

VOR Leg 3 Cape Town to Melbourne and the Great Land Down Under

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The return of the Prodigal Son?

Oh yes, after an absence of 12 years, Cape Town to Melbourne is back. Like Leg 6, Leg 3 is part of the route from the original Whitbread Round the World Race, and as such it carries the heavy weight of history with it – and double points.

So, what’s the big deal?

It’s 6,500 nm, and none of them will be easy. The fleet will start on 10 December, and head south from Cape Town to the Cape of Good Hope, before turning left and heading east across the Southern Ocean. They will go deep into the storms and waves of the Westerly Storm Track before arcing back to the north to cross the Great Australian Bight, enter the Bass Strait and so into Melbourne. 

This is more about brawn than brains? 

Back in the day, yes – when the boats rolled along at 8-10 knots they were sitting ducks for the weather systems that would roll up behind and then overtake them. But now the boats are fast enough to just about keep pace with the storm systems and a lot of smart strategy is required to position the boat correctly. 

And no Climate Zones this time? 

Apart from the start and finish there is really only one – the aforementioned Westerly Storm Trackwhere some serious weather, storms and depressions swirl west-to-east around the globe. While this section in the Southern Ocean will dominate the leg, the start and finish can also be tricky...

Tell us about the pitfalls on this one?

The race south: Cape Town is far enough north to be under the influence of the St Helena High (a stable, semi-static area of Subtropical High Pressurein the South Atlantic) and so the first section – south down the Cape Peninsula to the Cape of Good Hope and beyond – can often be in light winds. It will be tense, because the race is on to get south and into the Westerly Storm Track to pick up an eastbound low pressure system to ride towards Australia. 

In a nutshell: due south should get the boat into stronger breeze faster, but more distance will be travelled as the course to Melbourne is actually surprisingly close to due east. Can enough extra wind (and hence speed) be found to make up for the extra distance sailed, compared to a boat that just tries to shorten the distance? 

A lot will depend on the timing of the approach of the next inbound low pressure system. The precise speed of the boat as it heads south or east on the different possible routes must be carefully measured against the predicted movement of the low pressure. This one will be keeping the navigators busy.

The Southern Ocean: Once they get hooked up with a low pressure system in the Westerly Storm Track the teams will be working hard to stay with it. The strategic problem is to position the boat so that they don’t get too much wind and break something, or not enough so that they slow up and get left behind by the weather system... and anyone still hanging onto it. This section will take them deep into the big breeze and big waves of the legendary Roaring Forties. 

The final approach: The finish in Melbourne is back up north and right on the edge of where the Storm Track meets its northern neighbour, the Subtropical High Pressure Zone. So broadly speaking there are two scenarios for the final approach.

One: a low pressure system can come far enough north to sweep through the Bight, and create fast downwind surfing conditions all the way to Bass Strait. This is going to make it wet and wild all the way to the finish and they won’t feel like they’ve left the Southern Ocean until they get in the shelter of Cape Otway.

Two: The alternative is that the great desert that is central Australia gets on a roll and really heats up. The vast mass of hot air rising off the Nullarbor Plains creates what’s called a heat low. That low pressure is then matched by a high pressure situated out in the Great Australian Bight – which is strong enough to force all the Southern Ocean low pressure systems south of the course. This is scenario two and it could make the finish of this leg just about as tactically interesting as the Doldrums.

I’m guessing there are some epic tales from past legs?

The 2005-06 leg from Cape Town to Melbourne probably had one of the highest ever rates of attrition. Two boats finished by alternate modes of transport (container ship and truck). Two more had to pitstop in Western Australia, leaving just two boats to race cleanly to the line. This leg also humbled Paul Cayard’s (eventual) winning crew in 1997-98. After a spectacular win in the first leg, they eventually limped across the Australian finish line in fifth place after a series of damaging, violent and high speed crashes... 

 

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Coverage of the In-Port Race in Cape Town and then Leg 2 to Melbourne. The Volvo Ocean Race 2005-06 continues to prove a real challenge to the fleet as Movistar breaks a keel ram and Brasil 1 is dis-masted.

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7 hours ago, southerncross said:

Leg 2 was drifting already. 

:lol: Between the monstrous amount of coverage coming from the VOR boys and the SA experts in the leg 2 thread you've seriously run out of shit to watch and read already? Um, ADHD much?  It's over-achievers like you who give us under-achievers a bad name. :D  Have to give it to you though, leg 3 will surely be epic!

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Dongfeng's fight to the finish will mean a tighter point race going into Leg 3.  Some obvious takeaways.

Dongfeng is fast but can't yet escape their French Existential Philosophe.  "Nous somme nos choix."  Sarte

Mapfre is solid, consistent, seasoned, mature but hasn't yet figured out the extra gear Dongfeng has.  

Brunel is coming into their own.  A matter of time.  If there is enough time?

Vestas has SciFi.  They have the boat speed.  When it clicks they are a threat.

Akzo has many issues mostly centering around crew talent and chemistry.  Mapfre was in the same position in the last edition.  

Scallywag fought on and grew up.  They need a veteran from the last edition to show them how to dial the boat up.

TToP seems realistic about their chances and are happy to give it to whoever wants to go toe to toe with them.  No doubt they will improve by leaps.

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Do you know where the finish line will be?

I wonder how the racers tackle the heads? They could turn a several hour lead into a neck and neck sprint up the bay, I guess.

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12 hours ago, hoppy said:

Do you know where the finish line will be?

I wonder how the racers tackle the heads? They could turn a several hour lead into a neck and neck sprint up the bay, I guess.

Details of the finish here (on page 2)

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12 hours ago, hoppy said:

I wonder how the racers tackle the heads? They could turn a several hour lead into a neck and neck sprint up the bay, I guess.

...seems to be status quo of this RTW regatta.   :mellow:

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I'm not surprised that they included Channel mark No. 22 to force them to sail past the mega rich in their Portsea mansions :)

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Cape Town calendar now up on VOR noticeboard. snips:

Quote

Fri 8 December - VO65 In Port Race Day:

10:00h Skippers Press Conference – The Globe- All Skippers are required to attend
11:50h: Crews Assemble at Sailors Terrace
12:05h: Sailors Parade – Only Sailors, OBR and Children to parade please 12:20h to 12:45h: VO65 Dock Out

13:55h: Warning Signal In-Port Race
16:00h: Dock In followed by Prize-giving immediately after all 7 Teams have docked – Only top three crews are required to attend

19:00h: Awards night – The Lookout

14.00h: Crew, OBR and Guest lists needed to be entered on the Crew & Guest List smartsheet for Leg Start (SI 6.1)

Sat 9 December - VO65 Boat Tours:

09:00h to 11:00h: Boat Tour Session 1 - One Team Member to host 14:00h to 16:00h: Boat Tour Session 2 - One Team Member to host

18.00hrs-Boat Declaration (SI 6.2)

Sun 10 December - Leg Start Day:

11:20h: Crews Assemble at Sailors Terrace
11:40h: Sailors Parade – Only Sailors, OBR and Children to parade please 12:15h to 12:45h: VO65 Dock Out
13:55h: Warning Signal, Leg Start

 

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1 hour ago, Ockaroo said:

They would struggle to get down any of the other channels.

Fairly tricky finish to a long stage, coming through the Port Phillip heads can be tricky, get the wrong wind and tide it gets pretty ugly and throw into the mix the shipping traffic and you all go down the same channel. Then a couple of hours up the bay, you have earned a rest! Looking forward to seeing them come in, I will be out to watch.

West channel should be possible, but admittedly a bit of a challenge with their draft, although if they had a strong SW it would just be a fast blast. 

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

West channel should be possible, but admittedly a bit of a challenge with their draft, although if they had a strong SW it would just be a fast blast.

Whichever, we expect great on water video and photos from you as well as a all nighter report from Witt and crew.

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I'm still trying to work out if they're going to use Eclipse Island, which is about 5kms off the coast from my hometown, as a waypoint for Leg 3. From the description in OP it sounds like the fleet will be brought North out of the Southern Indian Ocean and up towards the Bight but doesn't mention a waypoint off the southern WA coast. Sent yet another email to VOR Race Management about it yesterday. Also need to find some time to look at that video Southern Cross posted above as I might be in it. Helped out considerably when Movistar and Pirates pitstopped in Albany back in 2005.

Edit: Just found 5 mins and fast forwarded to the Pirates pitstop bit. Ray "Boans" Woonings was an absolute legend that day. I was with Paul when he was in Ray's workshop trying to source the steel in Fremantle calling on all the old America's Cup contacts. We sourced the steel and Paul was going to fly up and back to get it but we found someone to fly the 2 steel rods down. Boans machined one rod as per the design specs and when they tried to install it, it didn't fit. Boans then redesigned it, machined it and installed it much to the huge relief of Cayard and his crew.  Rural ingenuity won the day that day big time. Boans was well rewarded for his efforts thanks to Cayard. Boy was that a BIIG 36 hours. Took me about a week to get over it!!!

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4 hours ago, albanyguy said:

I'm still trying to work out if they're going to use Eclipse Island, which is about 5kms off the coast from my hometown, as a waypoint for Leg 3. From the description in OP it sounds like the fleet will be brought North out of the Southern Indian Ocean and up towards the Bight but doesn't mention a waypoint off the southern WA coast. Sent yet another email to VOR Race Management about it yesterday. Also need to find some time to look at that video Southern Cross posted above as I might be in it. Helped out considerably when Movistar and Pirates pitstopped in Albany back in 2005.

Edit: Just found 5 mins and fast forwarded to the Pirates pitstop bit. Ray "Boans" Woonings was an absolute legend that day. I was with Paul when he was in Ray's workshop trying to source the steel in Fremantle calling on all the old America's Cup contacts. We sourced the steel and Paul was going to fly up and back to get it but we found someone to fly the 2 steel rods down. Boans machined one rod as per the design specs and when they tried to install it, it didn't fit. Boans then redesigned it, machined it and installed it much to the huge relief of Cayard and his crew.  Rural ingenuity won the day that day big time. Boans was well rewarded for his efforts thanks to Cayard. Boy was that a BIIG 36 hours. Took me about a week to get over it!!!

...hopefully it took well more than a week to get over Cayard's 'reward'  :P

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Hahaha....I think they got unlimited entry to any Disney theme parks around the world for life 

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10 hours ago, southerncross said:

Whichever, we expect great on water video and photos from you as well as a all nighter report from Witt and crew.

If I still have my boat I’ll try to get out and greet them and most certainly be there for the start, camera in tow

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Wise Words From Bouwe,

So arrival is well before schedule, thanks to a quick departure and doldrums crossing. That makes me think about the next leg. When we finish the toughest leg of the race in Aussie, we have only 5 days in port. Of these 5 days we have to do maintenance on the boat ourselves with the spares we bring along. Only two shorecrew are allowed to assist and then as well we have to sail one day pro-am races.  The crew will have no time to rest. We will  be interesting cases for the medical world, as it like running 20 marathons in a row, and shortly after you have to do the same. But so what:  I knew what I have signed up for and I am going to take it on the chin .

Cheers,
Bouwe

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Any recommendations on keel boat racing Dec 27-30 during the Melbourne stopover?  We will be visiting from the US and looking for an opportunity to crew for a beer can race.

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11 hours ago, southerncross said:

Wise Words From Bouwe,

So arrival is well before schedule, thanks to a quick departure and doldrums crossing. That makes me think about the next leg. When we finish the toughest leg of the race in Aussie, we have only 5 days in port. Of these 5 days we have to do maintenance on the boat ourselves with the spares we bring along. Only two shorecrew are allowed to assist and then as well we have to sail one day pro-am races.  The crew will have no time to rest. We will  be interesting cases for the medical world, as it like running 20 marathons in a row, and shortly after you have to do the same. But so what:  I knew what I have signed up for and I am going to take it on the chin .

Cheers,
Bouwe

Well I hope for Bouwe that he doesn't need a pit stop in Albany this time around. If so I'll meet him wearing my Movistar jacket, although maybe he won't want to remember that boat.

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On 25/11/2017 at 9:25 AM, fargoford said:

Any recommendations on keel boat racing Dec 27-30 during the Melbourne stopover? 

The is a nice little race Melbourne to Hobart called the "Westcoaster". T shirt stuff all the way... promise, X my heart. Bring your own beer.

Starts on Wed 27th and all over by the 30th and plenty of time to get back to Melbourne for the Hong Kong start on Tuesday the 2nd. Could even fit in the S2H QLD while your there.

PS. This pic is 25 years old showing one of those old trucks crawling along ..so maybe this race might be a bit too slow for you? 

Bennett01.jpg

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On 25/11/2017 at 2:55 PM, albanyguy said:

Well I hope for Bouwe that he doesn't need a pit stop in Albany this time around. If so I'll meet him wearing my Movistar jacket, although maybe he won't want to remember that boat.

You have a jacket..mmm...that's a worry or customs have obviously taken a change?

Anyway Bouwe wouldn't give that boat a thought...he is Dutch. Only people like Xabi and Villa think about MovieStar on account it is littering the bottom alongside Spainish Galleons in that part of the Atlantic.

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You have a jacket..mmm...that's a worry or customs have obviously taken a change?

:lol::lol:

You either sail on the boat..............or............

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1 hour ago, PabloMeca said:

Crew changes onboard Mapfre, Louis Sinclar replacing Ñeti.

http://desafiomapfre.com/en/rotation-mode-on/

8 days of fine-tuning for MAPFRE
Since early Saturday morning, the Spanish boat has been out of the water to undergo different checks with the MAPFRE shore crew, so the boat is ready on 5th December for its first training day in South Africa.

Spaniard Antonio Piris, “Talpi”, is the shore crew manager, and with there are another five people working directly on the boat at this stopover directly in order to have the boat ready: Santi Pablos, Gonzalo Fernández de Velasco “Nervio”, Juan Pinacho, Aitor Ocerin and the local sailor Christian Gough.

“The job list is a lot less than what we originally imagined,” affirmed Talpi, “it really could have been three times longer, but the boat left Lisbon very well-prepared, and although it was a spectacular start to the leg, with a lot of wind, apart from the first few days, the conditions, according to the comments I have heard from the crew, were quite easy.”

The boat was without load and didn’t have upwind conditions and seas to deal with, so there hasn’t been any problem with the sails, which are in perfect shape. The hull is perfect as well, and there weren’t any collisions, with the exception of a small knock to the keel, which is easy to fix. We will also have to re-touch the paintwork, but that is all normal, and something we expect and will have to do after each leg.”

MAPFRE will return to the water on Sunday 3rd December.

MAPFRE crew for Leg 3

  1. Xabi Fernández (ESP). Skipper
  2. Joan Vila (ESP). Navigator
  3. Pablo Arrarte (ESP). Watch captain
  4. Rob Greenhalgh (GBR). Watch captain
  5. Louis Sinclair (NZL). Trimmer/bowman, under-30
  6. Támara Echegoyen (ESP). Trimmer
  7. Sophie Ciszek (USA/AUS). Bowman
  8. Willy Altadill (ESP). Under-30 crew member. Trimmer/helmsman
  9. Blair Tuke (NZL). Under-30 crew member. Trimmer/helmsman
  10. Jen Edney (USA). On-board reporter

 

MAPFRE_171125_MMuina_5446.jpg

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On 25/11/2017 at 9:25 AM, fargoford said:

Any recommendations on keel boat racing Dec 27-30 during the Melbourne stopover?  We will be visiting from the US and looking for an opportunity to crew for a beer can race.

 

On 26/11/2017 at 3:30 PM, jack_sparrow said:

The is a nice little race Melbourne to Hobart called the "Westcoaster". T shirt stuff all the way... promise, X my heart. Bring your own beer.

Starts on Wed 27th and all over by the 30th and plenty of time to get back to Melbourne for the Hong Kong start on Tuesday the 2nd. Could even fit in the S2H QLD while your there.

PS. This pic is 25 years old showing one of those old trucks crawling along ..so maybe this race might be a bit too slow for you? 

Bennett01.jpg

Sorry I forgot to mention this joint for a good post race massage when you get back to Melbourne after doing the Westcoaster. You will go home a new man after this multicultural down under sailing experience.

https://manhattanterrace.com.au

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Ok, I'm bumping this thread up with a technical question:

Can they change the standing rigging tuning mid race (more/less tension, mast rake, etc...)? If not, their speed limiit is pretty much set from the beginning and the one who gets it right has a long way gone already...

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54 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Ok, I'm bumping this thread up with a technical question:

Can they change the standing rigging tuning mid race (more/less tension, mast rake, etc...)? If not, their speed limiit is pretty much set from the beginning and the one who gets it right has a long way gone already...

I'd have to think this is within the one design parameters..

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1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

Can they change the standing rigging tuning mid race (more/less tension, mast rake, etc...)?

Yes. But even still their speed limit has a top end because of the OD.  Since the last Edition Dongfeng had been unmatched win the speed department pulling out an extra knot or two.

 

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On 23/11/2017 at 3:35 AM, southerncross said:

Dongfeng's fight to the finish will mean a tighter point race going into Leg 3.  Some obvious takeaways.

Dongfeng is fast but can't yet escape their French Existential Philosophe.  "Nous somme nos choix."  Sarte

Mapfre is solid, consistent, seasoned, mature but hasn't yet figured out the extra gear Dongfeng has.  

Brunel is coming into their own.  A matter of time.  If there is enough time?

Vestas has SciFi.  They have the boat speed.  When it clicks they are a threat.

Akzo has many issues mostly centering around crew talent and chemistry.  Mapfre was in the same position in the last edition.  

Scallywag fought on and grew up.  They need a veteran from the last edition to show them how to dial the boat up.

TToP seems realistic about their chances and are happy to give it to whoever wants to go toe to toe with them.  No doubt they will improve by leaps.

Scally have got Parko who was with ADOR last time although that was his first trip I think.

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4 hours ago, southerncross said:

Yes. But even still their speed limit has a top end because of the OD.  Since the last Edition Dongfeng had been unmatched win the speed department pulling out an extra knot or two.

I know they can play with backstays/runners or whatever, I mean the standing rigging, as in putting hydraulic pressure on the mast base or shortening/lengthening the forestay...

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10 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

Scally have got Parko who was with ADOR last time although that was his first trip I think.

Thanks for that.  Although he was the youngest on the boat at the time, he must have picked up some tricks from the winning boat, no?  Maybe not enough.  Witt complained endlessly that they couldn't find the speed and had no idea how to fix it.

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7 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

I know they can play with backstays/runners or whatever, I mean the standing rigging, as in putting hydraulic pressure on the mast base or shortening/lengthening the forestay...

I had a feeling I didn't understand your question.  I think all they've got to play with is the above and all the mast bend and forestay tensioning comes from the deflectors.

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17 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Witt complained endlessly that they couldn't find the speed and had no idea how to fix it.

I'm starting to think he doesn't appreciate that there is no silver bullet in OD. Drivers and trimmers have to be constantly chasing BS improvement in increments of a couple of %, the wrong sail plan can't be up for more than minutes. It's brutal. If you don't, you slide out the back.

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I had a feeling I didn't understand your question.  I think all they've got to play with is the above and all the mast bend and forestay tensioning comes from the deflectors.

The way I see it, speed differences between boats in different conditions could be due (in part) to having different starting setups that they can't change. I wonder if they all have to leave the dock with the same trim or not. 

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I know I could go and read the rules and all that, but, that's what SA is for...

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1 minute ago, chuso007 said:

The way I see it, speed differences between boats in different conditions could be due (in part) to having different starting setups that they can't change. I wonder if they all have to leave the dock with the same trim or not. 

Interesting topic - but I'm not sure they leave the dock in anything but identical boats.  Of course I'm too lazy to look it up as well. 

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Sigh. No login here. No access to the operation manual. either. Some relevant passages from the class rules:

Quote

A.11  OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS

The official version of the Class Rules, amendments, interpretations and appendices shall be a posted at https://app.smartsheet.com/b/home?lx=eNDAr_LUZse0xAMBgvdmRQ and if there is any conflict or inconsistency, that version shall prevail.

Quote

C.9.7

STANDING RIGGING

(a)  DIMENSIONS

All dimensions shall be in compliance with the construction specification.

(b)  USE

At all times whilst racing standing rigging shall not be adjusted. RUNNING RIGGING

(a)  DIMENSIONS

(1)  All dimensions and specifications shall be in compliance with

the operation manual.

(2)  When supplied running rigging is required by the NOR or SIs, no modifications shall be made to this rigging except that markers/stoppers may be stitched into it. Lengths shall not be adjusted.

(3)  Additional lashings no larger than 4mm in outside diameter and bungee cord no larger than 6mm in outside diameter may be used to retain equipment and lace lifelines etc. However they may not be used directly as sail or appendage control lines, or for stacking purposes other than as attachment loops on pad eyes. Clips may be fitted to the ends.

(4)  Sail stacking straps may be carried onboard provided they are not used to stack equipment other than sails, and are not used as running rigging.

(5)  Sail ties may be carried onboard provided they are not used to retain stackable equipment below deck further outboard than they would otherwise be located.

(b)  USE

All running rigging shall only be led in compliance with the construction specification and the operation manual.

 

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Wondered about the options teams have to change their setups, but some appendices are not on the noticeboard

e.g, Can't find Appendix B, C, and F

Quote

PART III – APPENDICES

The rules in Part III are closed class rules. Measurement shall be carried out in accordance with the ERS except where varied in this Part.

These appendices will be posted on the Noticeboard.

APPENDIX A – DECK LAYOUT
APPENDIX B – SYSTEMS LAYOUT
APPENDIX C – RIG GEOMETRY
APPENDIX D –
ONE DESIGN PAINT COVERAGE

APPENDIX E – CLASS CERTIFICATE

APPENDIX F – PERMITTED CHANGES & ADDITIONS

APPENDIX G – MAINSAIL LOGO
APPENDIX H – SAFETY EQUIPMENT LAYOUT

 

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32 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

The way I see it, speed differences between boats in different conditions could be due (in part) to having different starting setups that they can't change. I wonder if they all have to leave the dock with the same trim or not. 

 

I’m beginning to wonder the same thing, there are only a certain amount of adjustments possible and this is one that wasn’t mentioned very much, and probably not as easy to spot from another boat, or drone  

Wasnt it mentioned in the last race that Dongs mast issues were due to unusual loadings??

Fire away at that conspiracy theory.  :lol:

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

Wasnt it mentioned in the last race that Dongs mast issues were due to unusual loadings??

It was theorized.  Mapfre lost their rig in trials earlier this year. Only two boats so far.

Dongfeng has been fast both editions.  But they didn't have Stu last time.  So, they're is something about the boat that Charles/Pascal understand better than others.  

1 -2 knots is a huge gain.

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23 minutes ago, mad said:

 

 

I’m beginning to wonder the same thing, there are only a certain amount of adjustments possible and this is one that wasn’t mentioned very much, and probably not as easy to spot from another boat, or drone  

Washont it mentioned in the last race that Dongs mast issues were due to unusual loadings??

Fire away at that conspiracy theory.  :lol:

During last edition, I used to have lunch every week with a race veteran who I remember saying one day he could notice Chuny's hand in ADOR holding back while Dongfeng were blasting towards CH... The rest is history.

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7 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

During last edition, I used to have lunch every week with a race veteran who I remember saying one day he could notice Chuny's hand in ADOR holding back while Dongfeng were blasting towards CH... The rest is history.

Hmmm. IIRC (need to find the link), there was also an ADOR crew comment to the effect that DFRT was pushing and heeling more than ADOR thought wise.

Anyway, speaking of Chuny (and the like), would he carry MAPF "secrets" when switched to another crew? Not sure if headhunting another team's expert is treated as just part of normal recruitment or if bizarre NDAs come into play.

Hey! If VS11 beats MAPF, should Chuny deserve the credit or blame? :) 

Haha. Spanish sailing just doubled their chances of a win. 

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50 minutes ago, stief said:

Hmmm. IIRC (need to find the link), there was also an ADOR crew comment to the effect that DFRT was pushing and heeling more than ADOR thought wise.

Anyway, speaking of Chuny (and the like), would he carry MAPF "secrets" when switched to another crew? Not sure if headhunting another team's expert is treated as just part of normal recruitment or if bizarre NDAs come into play.

Hey! If VS11 beats MAPF, should Chuny deserve the credit or blame? :) 

Haha. Spanish sailing just doubled their chances of a win. 

Well,  Chuny never sailed on Mafre... Or Telefónica, for that matter.

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5 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Well,  Chuny never sailed on Mafre... Or Telefónica, for that matter.

Oops. Should have checked before posting. Camper and ADOR, not Telefonica and MAPF as I mistakenly thought. Thanks for the correction.

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12 hours ago, southerncross said:

It was theorized.  Mapfre lost their rig in trials earlier this year. Only two boats so far.

Dongfeng has been fast both editions.  But they didn't have Stu last time.  So, they're is something about the boat that Charles/Pascal understand better than others.  

1 -2 knots is a huge gain.

1-2 knots
Where did that come from?
With a margin of 1.5 knots they would have been in long before the other boats, and certain to win even before they set off.

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24 minutes ago, ModernViking said:

1-2 knots
Where did that come from?
With a margin of 1.5 knots they would have been in long before the other boats, and certain to win even before they set off.

That would put them days ahead of Scallywag! 

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10 hours ago, stief said:

Oops. Should have checked before posting. Camper and ADOR, not Telefonica and MAPF as I mistakenly thought. Thanks for the correction.

Camper, ADOR, Delta Lloyd, Brasil 1, Assa Abloy and Galicia 93 Pescanova. He's been around...;)

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18 minutes ago, mad said:

That would put them days ahead of Scallywag! 

I think it's the same speed-blindness that happens to certain people, when they take delivery of their new discount white sails from Faroutsails and claims that they sail at least 1.5 knots faster with them. Even downwind....

 

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On 20/11/2017 at 6:03 AM, southerncross said:

Coverage of the In-Port Race in Cape Town and then Leg 2 to Melbourne. The Volvo Ocean Race 2005-06 continues to prove a real challenge to the fleet as Movistar breaks a keel ram and Brasil 1 is dis-masted.

Good to see an anarchist popping up at 25 mins

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3 hours ago, ModernViking said:

1-2 knots
Where did that come from?
With a margin of 1.5 knots they would have been in long before the other boats, and certain to win even before they set off.

Sorry.  On in certain conditions, heavier conditions.  There's a vid of Charles saying it.  When they were in the lead they extended and when behind they gained considerably.

That being said, he also mentioned they weren't very good in the light stuff.

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40 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Sorry.  On in certain conditions, heavier conditions.  There's a vid of Charles saying it.  When they were in the lead they extended and when behind they gained considerably.

That being said, he also mentioned they weren't very good in the light stuff.

Right idea, though Charles did mention the "1 knot advantage" in comparison to Groupama. Not sure if just smoke and mirrors, but more details here (like better helming and other crew work).

Snips:

Quote

18:56 LOGBOOK / NOVEMBER 21 2017
THE LATEST FROM CHARLES: OUR SPEED IS THE WORK OF THE WHOLE DONGFENG CREW

Our speed over the last two days has been amazing; it could have been even better if we had not had a small issue two days ago when we lost a few miles.
But this speed is crazy. In the last race, we were the king of the light and medium air but we were not fast in heavy weather so we worked really hard to find solutions this winter and this investment has paid off.
I can hardly believe how fast we are sometimes. It reminds me of the old times on Groupama when we were one knot faster than everyone else at times.
But this speed is the result of the efforts of the full crew and the big work we did this winter and then with MAPFRE in August in Sanxenxo. It is also a result of the efforts of the new sailors in Dongfeng Race Team who have brought us their knowledge and their driving skills. Stu and Daryl are just amazing drivers at high speed.
On the cockpit display we have our performance presented as a percentage of the boat’s polars and, I can tell you, it’s not easy to drive after Stu – “Mr 102%!” But this is a good reference and all our drivers now reach this target.
This afternoon Marie was helming and I was watching her, pushing more than anyone. I decided to give up my turn on the wheel and do the grinding for her.

 

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13 minutes ago, stief said:

Right idea, though Charles did mention the "1 knot advantage" in comparison to Groupama.

In a video too but I'm not about to hunt it down.

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On 11/23/2017 at 1:28 PM, stief said:
Details of the finish here (on page 2)

Funny...  The Cape Town Start image says "TO ABU DHABI" next to the arrow departing.  I guess they're re-using the last edition's start plan and image, and forgot to tweak it.

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13 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Funny...  The Cape Town Start image says "TO ABU DHABI" next to the arrow departing.  I guess they're re-using the last edition's start plan and image, and forgot to tweak it.

Nice catch. Poor VOR website is having trouble keeping up with all the changes (still having trouble with their search indices too). Oh well. They're doing an exceptional job giving us fodder nonetheless. Screenie sent to webmaster.

(and congrats on your race and the nice thread you guys have going over there. We should be so lucky here )

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16 hours ago, Swanno said:

Good to see an anarchist popping up at 25 mins

I missed the Movistar bit when I looked at it a few days ago. I must've skipped through to the Pirates bit and didn't look back.

Oh boy what a day that was. And we got the right hydraulic oil :)))

 

Oh and Swanno - thanks for outing me :ph34r: Should I be reporting you now? :lol:

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5 hours ago, albanyguy said:

I missed the Movistar bit when I looked at it a few days ago. I must've skipped through to the Pirates bit and didn't look back.

Oh boy what a day that was. And we got the right hydraulic oil :)))

 

Oh and Swanno - thanks for outing me :ph34r: Should I be reporting you now? :lol:

Haha. You outed yourself! I just said an anarchist! :lol:

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Interesting question is if there will be a record breaking 24 hours run.
In the past the longer 70 footers breaked some records.
Because the airdensity is higher, more propeling power from the sails is to be expected.
Therefore this leg is the most record breaking one.

Monohull.
1994 "Intrum Justitia" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 428nm. 17.83kts
1997 "Toshiba" 64ft, Dennis Connor, USA, 434.4nm, 18.1kts
1997 "Silk Cut" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 449.1nm. 18.71kts
2002 "Illbruck" 64ft, John Kostecki, USA, 484nm. 20.16kts
2005 "Movistar" 70ft, Bouwe Becking, NED, 530.19nm, 22.09kts
2005 "ABN AMRO ONE" 70ft, Mike Sanderson, NZL 546.14nm, 22.75kts
2006 "ABN AMRO TWO" 70ft, Sebastien Josse, FRA, 562.96 nm, 23.45kts
2008 "Ericsson 4" 70ft, Torben Grael BRA, 596.6nm, 24.85kt

Source: https://www.sailspeedrecords.com/24-hour-distance

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Schackelidiot..you say the fuckin "air density is higher, more propeling power from the sails is to be expected".. have you ever thought about sea state and a million other factors in SOG ..or maybe chewing on a piece of plutonium? 

Doesn't matter if your high lattitude northern hemisphere or south you need the right conditions..look at the records...and a V65 ain't breaking anything except maybe itself trying to beat a VO70 record.

PS. Google Commanche 24hr Unpowered compared to Ericsson on your list...  might help you go ..oooops.

 

 

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8 hours ago, albanyguy said:

Edit: Maybe I should be reporting you Stief as you took the screen shot :P:lol:

Blush. Sorry about that. I meant to hide that post last night, but got distracted. I've done so now, so if you hide yours, that will help make it tougher for others to realize your confirmation.  :P:lol:

BTW, sure like the spirit of sailors helping sailors you guys have down there: just like here and elsewhere. 

So, please accept 100 lickys as partial repayment. Might be a while before I can buy you a drink.

All the Race Docs are posted on the notice board http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/noticeboard.html

They are often updated, but for now the one to watch is probably this one  (will probably be updated shortly since it illustrates boats heading to Abu Dhabi after  CT; credit Your Mom).

Perhaps these?

Quote

Channel mark No. 22 38°19.632’S 144°54.209’E Red channel marker

Melbourne gate 38o 20.828’S 38o 21.342’S 144o 31.802’E 144o 32.260’E Virtual Gate

 

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2 hours ago, schakel488 said:

Interesting question is if there will be a record breaking 24 hours run.
In the past the longer 70 footers breaked some records.
Because the airdensity is higher, more propeling power from the sails is to be expected.
Therefore this leg is the most record breaking one.

Monohull.
1994 "Intrum Justitia" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 428nm. 17.83kts
1997 "Toshiba" 64ft, Dennis Connor, USA, 434.4nm, 18.1kts
1997 "Silk Cut" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 449.1nm. 18.71kts
2002 "Illbruck" 64ft, John Kostecki, USA, 484nm. 20.16kts
2005 "Movistar" 70ft, Bouwe Becking, NED, 530.19nm, 22.09kts
2005 "ABN AMRO ONE" 70ft, Mike Sanderson, NZL 546.14nm, 22.75kts
2006 "ABN AMRO TWO" 70ft, Sebastien Josse, FRA, 562.96 nm, 23.45kts
2008 "Ericsson 4" 70ft, Torben Grael BRA, 596.6nm, 24.85kt

Source: https://www.sailspeedrecords.com/24-hour-distance

If 596.6 is in the picture at some point, one might as well keep Commanche's 618.01 in mind.  Although I guess that would mean beating E4 by almost a knot for 24 hours, which is probably unrealistic.

Is the air density thing legit? I've never thought about that as a factor.

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2 hours ago, Your Mom said:

If 596.6 is in the picture at some point, one might as well keep Commanche's 618.01 in mind.  Although I guess that would mean beating E4 by almost a knot for 24 hours, which is probably unrealistic.

Is the air density thing legit? I've never thought about that as a factor.

Mummy the best 24hr by a V65 is 540 nm set by Brunel last edition and Bouwe reakoned that was bordering scary. Aspirations of a V65 beating Ericks/VO70's 596 nm let alone the Big Indians 618 nm is like going to bed and thinking you will wake up next to 3 super models and a bucket of beer.

And air density of high lats is legit.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mummy the best 24hr by a V65 is 540 nm set by Brunel last edition and Bouwe reakoned that was bordering scary. Aspirations of a V65 beating Ericks/VO70's 596 nm let alone the Big Indians 618 nm is like going to bed and thinking you will wake up next to 3 super models and a bucket of beer.

And air density of high lats is legit.

Understanding that the cause is not the high latitude but the low temperature. Colder air is denser; so for the same windspeed, you can extract more power from colder, denser air...

And I am so disapointed that the 3 models and bucket of beer thing is not going to happen...

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mummy the best 24hr by a V65 is 540 nm set by Brunel last edition and Bouwe reakoned that was bordering scary. Aspirations of a V65 beating Ericks/VO70's 596 nm let alone the Big Indians 618 nm is like going to bed and thinking you will wake up next to 3 super models and a bucket of beer.

And air density of high lats is legit.

Thanks, Jack.  But...  Just one bucket of beer?

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Understanding that the cause is not the high latitude but the low temperature. Colder air is denser; so for the same windspeed, you can extract more power from colder, denser air...

And I am so disapointed that the 3 models and bucket of beer thing is not going to happen...

 Be careful, density of air is going to confuse a few here. Which only results in rabid mouth frothing posts from the terminally confused. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

 Be careful, density of air is going to confuse a few here. Which only results in rabid mouth frothing posts from the terminally confused. 

Yes indeed, a terminally confused here, who thinks that atmospheric pressure has a lot to do with air density as well.

Maybe you can explain, you know-all !

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9 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Yes indeed, a terminally confused here, who thinks that atmospheric pressure has a lot to do with air density as well.

Maybe you can explain, you know-all !

Sorry, which sock am I answering to? Because I’m sure your striped sock knew all about this. 

There is a wealth of knowledge on this site with a simple search. We were always taught as children to do our own research, than rely on others. 

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I thought the latter part of the last leg was where most records were set, with the sea state being a little kinder than the proper south.

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11 hours ago, stief said:

Blush. Sorry about that. I meant to hide that post last night, but got distracted. I've done so now, so if you hide yours, that will help make it tougher for others to realize your confirmation.  :P:lol:

BTW, sure like the spirit of sailors helping sailors you guys have down there: just like here and elsewhere. 

So, please accept 100 lickys as partial repayment. Might be a while before I can buy you a drink.

All the Race Docs are posted on the notice board http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/noticeboard.html

They are often updated, but for now the one to watch is probably this one  (will probably be updated shortly since it illustrates boats heading to Abu Dhabi after  CT; credit Your Mom).

Perhaps these?

 

Thanks for the likes Stief. That might make up for it :lol:

I'll have a look at the Noticeboard and check regularly. The coordinates you gave are near Melbourne not Eclipse Island, which is at about 35 11S 117 52E

 

Edit: It appears Eclipse Island is not a waypoint at this time. Bugger :(:angry: Better get my VOR65 attracting magnet fired up to see if I can attract at least one boat to this fine harbour on the South Coast of WA.

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4 hours ago, mad said:

 Be careful, density of air is going to confuse a few here. Which only results in rabid mouth frothing posts from the terminally confused. 

a first mate like you will never be confused, though.

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3 hours ago, albanyguy said:

Thanks for the likes Stief. That might make up for it :lol:

I'll have a look at the Noticeboard and check regularly. The coordinates you gave are near Melbourne not Eclipse Island, which is at about 35 11S 117 52E

 

Edit: It appears Eclipse Island is not a waypoint at this time. Bugger :(:angry: Better get my VOR65 attracting magnet fired up to see if I can attract at least one boat to this fine harbour on the South Coast of WA.

If you could be so kind as to arrange one boat in the 24 hour period starting noon on the 16th as I will be driving through the area

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Might be a bit hard Rushy since they're only leaving Cape Town on the 10th!!

Don't think even IDEC could cross the Indian Ocean in that time, although they did do a Southern Indian Ocean crossing earlier this year in a shade under 6 days.

When you do drive through the area on the 16th drop me a PM and we could catch up for an ale or two. 

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4 hours ago, 3to1 said:

a first mate like you will never be confused, though.

Not on the basics anyway. 

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17 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

Might be a bit hard Rushy since they're only leaving Cape Town on the 10th!!

Don't think even IDEC could cross the Indian Ocean in that time, although they did do a Southern Indian Ocean crossing earlier this year in a shade under 6 days.

When you do drive through the area on the 16th drop me a PM and we could catch up for an ale or two. 

I need to pay more attention or I have the start date confused with the 2nd test... Or just getting old!

Aiming for Esperence with lunch at Albany but no firm plans other than being in Melbourne by the 23rd.  I will PM you if we stop for longer.

Are there any tourist traps to avoid?

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