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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
southerncross

VOR Leg 3 Cape Town to Melbourne and the Great Land Down Under

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3 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Forss tracker not showing any “Windy data” on iPad.  Windy direct works 

He posted earlier.  You have to disable all the privacy settings.  Or use it in Chrome.

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29 minutes ago, stief said:

Thanks Renny, especially for the non-music one. Did you happen to notice if the full presser is available? I haven't found it yet.

And, as far as catching up is concerned, so much easier than the leg 2 thread. :) 

This is all I've got:

 

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1 hour ago, random said:

Ahhhh the money shot.  Crew getting fucking hammered by white water!

looks like sailing high performance boats on the ocean. what do you want, cucumber sandwiches and some pompous old boy who looks like LB15 smoking a pipe?

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7 hours ago, schakel488 said:

 

Not only, in this very fierce storm coming up, Vesta's can make advantage by reaching with limited sail while the rest maybe must put everything under deck.
We'll see.

 

Not if you put every sail under deck. Next 16 hours will bring interesting results.
And photo's and video's.

You don’t really understand about this race or the way these boats are sailed do you??

 The sail damage will be from sails aloft, not in the stack on deck. If they start to get damaged, they’ll start damaging the crew, boat and potentially end up over the side. 

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8 hours ago, schakel488 said:

 

Not only, in this very fierce storm coming up, Vesta's can make advantage by reaching with limited sail while the rest maybe must put everything under deck.
We'll see.

 

Not if you put every sail under deck. Next 16 hours will bring interesting results.
And photo's and video's.

the stack is mandatory for boat speed. bonus; it gets even heavier as it collects water.

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48 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

And that's plenty. Appreciate the timeline you created too. Sorry not  to to have heard all the questions that must have been edited or omitted..

- 00:00 Charles Caudrelier (skipper, Dongfeng Race Team) on Kevin Escoffier and the start of the leg - 00:31 Charlie Enright (skipper, Vestas 11th Hour Racing) on the double point and the experience onboard - 01:42 Bouwe Bekking (skipper, Team Brunel) on what is frightening in the South Ocean, manoeuvring in the breeze - 03:36 Dee Caffari (skipper, Turn the Tide on Plastic) on having an crew with little experience in Southern Ocean - 04:02 Martine Grael (team AkzoNobel) on the pressure and the difference with Olympic preparation - 04:29 Blair Tuke (MAPFRE) on new challenge, being outside of comfort zone but lots of experienced people around

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1 minute ago, Chasm said:

Looking at it some more there are console errors for both current and sea temp.
Seems all to be in js files controlled/supplied by windy.

Ah--figured you'd be able to identify the problem--thanks for taking the time. Saves me messing further with my set-up. Cheers again.

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11 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

looks like sailing high performance boats on the ocean. what do you want, cucumber sandwiches and some pompous narcissist who looks like LB15 smoking a pipe?

You are right of course.  But the masses don't care about that, it is channelling the mysticism of the square riggers and the southern ocean.  In those days they had no choice with the gear they had.  These days we have choices, my beef is that they chose to play up the white water to get the money shots ... by design.  All fun until someone gets hurt.

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4 minutes ago, stief said:

And that's plenty. Appreciate the timeline you created too. Sorry to to have heard all the questions that must have been edited or omitted..

- 00:00 Charles Caudrelier (skipper, Dongfeng Race Team) on Kevin Escoffier and the start of the leg - 00:31 Charlie Enright (skipper, Vestas 11th Hour Racing) on the double point and the experience onboard - 01:42 Bouwe Bekking (skipper, Team Brunel) on what is frightening in the South Ocean, manoeuvring in the breeze - 03:36 Dee Caffari (skipper, Turn the Tide on Plastic) on having an crew with little experience in Southern Ocean - 04:02 Martine Grael (team AkzoNobel) on the pressure and the difference with Olympic preparation - 04:29 Blair Tuke (MAPFRE) on new challenge, being outside of comfort zone but lots of experienced people around

Thanks for the flowers, but it was not me who created the timeline, it was VOR. But I'm good with c/p ;)

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7 hours ago, popo said:

By the way, what's the penalty for trespassing the ice area ?

From memory in the last races, they have to sail back to the point where they went past the limit and then rejoin the race on the correct side of the zone. 

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4 hours ago, southerncross said:

Yep.  And who's it that reached Bullimore first and threw the hammer on the hull?

Gio through the Hammer to wake up Isabelle A

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Just now, PIL007 said:

Gio through the Hammer to wake up Isabelle A

That's right.  Got em mixed up.  Bulli was on his own for 5 days.

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9 minutes ago, mad said:

From memory in the last races, they have to sail back to the point where they went past the limit and then rejoin the race on the correct side of the zone. 

Wow. That seems close to impossible...

 

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When is it predicted that they will arrive. I heard a comment on the VOR site of after Xmas but my predictwind routing has them getting to the heads at 23:00 on the 22nd.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

That's right.  Got em mixed up.  Bulli was on his own for 5 days.

I was lucky enough to spend a few days sailing with him (Gio) to get the first hand account.... She (IB) is also is one of my all time favs and is my first recollection of a female sailor beating the men on equal footing when she won a leg in big breeze.... She was very aggressive... some say overly.  

Can any one think of another example before her....?

More raw footage please VOR

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Just now, PIL007 said:

I was lucky enough to spend a few days sailing with him (Gio)

Always liked Soldini.  Bright positive personality.  Shame he stepped away from the Vendee.  But a nice gig he's got.  Did you sail on a Maserati?

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25 minutes ago, mad said:

From memory in the last races, they have to sail back to the point where they went past the limit and then rejoin the race on the correct side of the zone. 

That's a Vendee rule for sure.  JP Dick had to do that.  Is the Volvo the same rule?

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VOR has a minimum 1 point penalty, even if you go back. Likely more if you sail on.

From IJ procedures:

Quote

3. Exclusion Zones on Ocean Legs 
If a boat sails into an exclusion zone, but then returns to the position where she first entered the zone, and thereafter sails a course that complies with the Leg Sailing  Instructions, the penalty will be one (1) point deducted from her Race score.  

When these facts are agreed by the boat and Race Control, the Jury may hold the hearing and apply the penalty during the Leg. 

Whereas if a boat sails into an exclusion zone and does not then return to the position where she first entered the zone, the penalty will apply to her Leg score and will be more than one point if she gained advantage as a result.  

 

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Looks like Mapfre jibed, and Ttop still making best speed and closing the gap...

Zoom in on the tracks, seems Dong is on autopilot, straight as a ruler.vor2.jpg.5d67997b4eed8fbaa36949e7be8f7275.jpg

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Why is Vestas only going 12.5 knots in 30 knots of breeze.  Not a good sign.

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Seems there is a difference between your Leg score and your Race score.  I can't see how that can be without effectively moving those who finish one behind you on a Leg up a place.  Not sure.

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7 minutes ago, DtM said:

Seems there is a difference between your Leg score and your Race score.  I can't see how that can be without effectively moving those who finish one behind you on a Leg up a place.  Not sure.

Stief knows this.  

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3 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Cloud/precipitation density? Radar?

So the areas with no colour (white grey) are off the radar?

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6 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

So the areas with no colour (white grey) are off the radar?

I think it's measuring cloud density or precipitation levels for a certain range or height.

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Just now, rogerfal said:

Will be in the race experts glossary :rolleyes:

Yeah.  But but by the time I find it Stief has come along and posted it.

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Does not fit any windy overlays. 
Could be radar but seems awfully wider for that. Radar sat swath tend to be smaller. [Sentinel 1 has 250km]
Analysis from a Meteo sat in geostationary orbit? Wrong product, but say EUMETSAT Antarctic air mass

Penalties. As I understand if someone else gets redress they will change the scores for the leg. If not they just add the penalty to the total score.

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7 minutes ago, Elisa said:

New Tracker update, Dong most south, rest steering north.

Surprised Mapfre letting them go.  More leverage at the gates?

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On penalties I'm thinking a boat can still win a leg but loose a race point if they transgress and return. That way they get to stand on top of the podium for the leg.

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1 hour ago, random said:

You are right of course.  But the masses don't care about that, it is channelling the mysticism of the square riggers and the southern ocean.  In those days they had no choice with the gear they had.  These days we have choices, my beef is that they chose to play up the white water to get the money shots ... by design.  All fun until someone gets hurt.

come on man, these are professional sailors who know exactly what they signed up for.

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10 minutes ago, Elisa said:

New Tracker update, Dong most south, rest steering north.

Shift probably not long happened. Possibly thinking about sail change as they maintain an optimum TWA.

Hard to say with snapshot data. The front is proper into them anyways.

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Race Experts‏Verified account @RaceExperts  9m9 minutes ago

53 Knots of wind for @DongfengRacing! The fleet has been chased down by the cold front and is experiencing big left shifts in the wind as it passes over. 

Screen Shot 2017-12-13 at 10.47.00 PM.png

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2 hours ago

Vestas 11th Hour Racing Blog 4 from OBR Sam Greenfield - Needling Charlie

It's 7:15 UTC time and the sched has just come through. Only God - or a kid with Google Earth on their tablet - knows what time is really is for us as the sun sets and rises earlier each day as we chase east at the bottom of the world. Imagine sunrises around 2am and sunsets around 5pm. 

The wind is up as the storm builds. We're leaping off waves at speeds in the mid 20s (knots) but the downwind angle is easier to stomach than anticipated.

Charlie is finishing up his chicken a la king with extra sweet and spicy sauce at the nav desk. Mark is perching right behind me with the same dish, coated in BBQ sauce. Both smell amazing. I strike up a deal with Charlie, telling him I'll wash his bowl if he gives me a few good lines about the most recent position report. I'm starving anyway and need a bowl for dinner, so it's a fair trade.

He starts out with "Weeeee're, back in touch.... and ready to strike."

Not good enough, I tell him. It's the 3rd time he's tried this line in four days and I have to remind him we're not living in - sadly - Top Gun.

"After a ... errrr... slow start and..." He pauses. "Dealing with our own weather..." Another pause. "We've jumped back up...."

I stop him there. Last chance. I offer a prompt: "The last sched came in... fill in the rest. Try that?"

"The last sched came in," says Charlie. "We were the lowest, fastest boat" He changes to a robot voice, a slight reference to Robo-Charlie. My name for him when he delivers garbage, stilted quotes thinking it gets him out of it.

He continues, "We passed Brunel and AkzoNobel. The red boats remain ahead but within striking distance."

He's earned that last striking distance. Now comes the fun part. "And how does that make you feel? Sad Charlie? Happy Charlie? Iceman or Goose Charlie?"

"I was not so secretly hoping that we'd be ahead of all of them," he admits.

I tell him to give me the bowl. BBQ sauce it is.

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Seems like Vestas had a night time wipeout.  Still not up to full speed and they lost 11nm is only a few hours.

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19 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Race Experts‏Verified account @RaceExperts  9m9 minutes ago

53 Knots of wind for @DongfengRacing! The fleet has been chased down by the cold front and is experiencing big left shifts in the wind as it passes over. 

Screen Shot 2017-12-13 at 10.47.00 PM.png

It’s time for survival mode, forget the race. 

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21 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Race Experts‏Verified account @RaceExperts  9m9 minutes ago

53 Knots of wind for @DongfengRacing! The fleet has been chased down by the cold front and is experiencing big left shifts in the wind as it passes over. 

Screen Shot 2017-12-13 at 10.47.00 PM.png

Comparing Mapfre to Dongfeng, hard to believe there is that much difference in wind speed being just 10 miles apart, in a system that large...

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Just now, oceangeek said:

Comparing Mapfre to Dongfeng, hard to believe there is that much difference in wind speed being just 10 miles apart, in a system that large...

I was just thinking that.

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

I was just thinking that.

Around 20:40, Mapfre seeing under 20 knots, and Dongfeng seeing over 40 knots. Crazy.

Issue with vortices coming off the masthead at those windspeeds and heel angles?

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Reading most pages of this thread and following the race but too busy as I would like. Work is peaking before Christmas.

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Think that often the numbers do not stack up. But what we get is restricted / incomplete.

Another oddity - How did MAPF gain 0.3 NM when they are further behind than the last few scheds?

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6 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Think that often the numbers do not stack up. But what we get is restricted / incomplete.

Another oddity - How did MAPF gain 0.3 NM when they are further behind than the last few scheds?

Something is wonky with the tracker. If you just go to the page, it shows Mapfre as gaining +0.3 at timestamp 22:24:00UTC. But if you drag the progress bar back, then forward again to the end at 22:24:00UTC, it shows Mapfre with a loss of 2.8. Refresh the page, and you get +0.3 again. Same DTF, just different gain/loss.

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That doesn't make sense to me. In any case we need more complete data sets with averages and time stamps to make more sense of it.

A glossary of terms and proper explanation of the data would be helpful and not just what, for example, does TWA mean. 

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11 minutes ago, oceangeek said:

Comparing Mapfre to Dongfeng, hard to believe there is that much difference in wind speed being just 10 miles apart, in a system that large...

They're so close to the vortex we'll see really rapid direction and velocity changes. 

I've been in several typhoons, once in a research aircraft and the intensity and directional changes near the vortex are awe inspiring. I can't explain how strange it is when you fly into the vortex. Everything goes scary quiet. 

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5 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Latest forecast shows the center of the low moving at ~22 knots, but only about 18 knots easterly component since it's tracking ESE.  As long as the track is that far south it seems like they won't get blasted too bad. 

It will speed up too as it gathers intensity.

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

Hmm.  Both Dongfeng and TToP had to fix or replace their wind instruments earlier in the race and in much less wind.

So possibly their calibration is not spot on. If indeed any of the boats are across the huge range of variables and conditions.

I understand calibration and analysis is always an ongoing process.

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But glad to drop into the make or break part of the leg.  TTToP most north with 33 kts winds according to ECMWF,  Mapfre @ 38 kts steady wind. Any boat that looses a sail or worse is fubar. 

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7 minutes ago, southerncross said:

These are the Stats in the Pro Mode.  TWS?

For what time period?

Something isn't right. Could those numbers be kilometers per hour?

Sometimes the geeks don't understand the meaning of the numbers they are playing with...

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With the exception of Sam Greenfield and Ugo Fonolla, I'm guessing some of the OBR's are either tossing their lunch or are in the fetal position.

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3 minutes ago, Miffy said:

They're so close to the vortex we'll see really rapid direction and velocity changes. 

I've been in several typhoons, once in a research aircraft and the intensity and directional changes near the vortex are awe inspiring. I can't explain how strange it is when you fly into the vortex. Everything goes scary quiet. 

I think they're still some 180nm from the vortex, so would not expect that radical a difference in 10nm between boats, especially N-S.  If the distance was E-W maybe.

(I've been through the eye of a hurricane as well, and the silence in the middle is deafening)

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3 minutes ago, Herman said:

But glad to drop into the make or break part of the leg.  TTToP most north with 33 kts winds according to ECMWF,  Mapfre @ 38 kts steady wind. Any boat that looses a sail or worse is fubar. 

I'd say Nico and Dee made the right call. Barepoles or using the hank on with all the reefs and still potentially getting knocked down is neither fast or boat saving. 

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

I'd say Nico and Dee made the right call. Barepoles or using the hank on with all the reefs and still potentially getting knocked down is neither fast or boat saving. 

Bare poles?  

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2 minutes ago, oceangeek said:

I think they're still some 180nm from the vortex, so would not expect that radical a difference in 10nm between boats, especially N-S.  If the distance was E-W maybe.

(I've been through the eye of a hurricane as well, and the silence in the middle is deafening)

I did that trip one time to get some footage. Never again. I've landed in the old HK airport between buildings DURING a typhoons. Doesn't compare to the feeling of flying into a system and losing a few thousand feet while trying to hold gearsteady . 

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

I'd say Nico and Dee made the right call. Barepoles or using the hank on with all the reefs and still potentially getting knocked down is neither fast or boat saving. 

Keeping the boat together is nice as Melbourne is just a stopover without any serious damage repairs allowed. Crew can go onshore and that’s about it.

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

 

Screen Shot 2017-12-13 at 11.35.35 PM.png

Average ranking must relate to the whole leg otherwise DF would not be 1.6.

Hard to draw conclusions when the data is not defined.

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1 hour ago, familysailor said:

Wow. That seems close to impossible...

 

Well they and the race committee will have a direct gps fix at the point they break the limit, it’s easy to use that as a return waypoint and then return to the race. 

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16 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I did that trip one time to get some footage. Never again. I've landed in the old HK airport between buildings DURING a typhoons. Doesn't compare to the feeling of flying into a system and losing a few thousand feet while trying to hold gearsteady . 

Flying a plane through the eye of a cyclone is no different than riding a bicycle. Just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

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41 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Another oddity - How did MAPF gain 0.3 NM when they are further behind than the last few scheds?

This one has been corrected. Same time stamp but now showing a loss of 2.8.

Someone is reading.

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