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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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southerncross

VOR Leg 3 Cape Town to Melbourne and the Great Land Down Under

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10 minutes ago, stief said:

Can't find the YT version on the VOR or Renny's page. Found this: am watching now

Indeed, still only the FB version of today's Live available.

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

MAPFRE

"Here we are, still gybing and gybing through the exclusion zone… These days are long for all of us as there is no chance to have a good rest, but we know there is not too much left and everyone is giving all they’ve got" - Xabi.

Screen Shot 2017-12-21 at 2.12.48 PM.png

It’s amazing how old they look!

There’s a 30ish year-old girl under that balaclava!

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2 hours ago, Your Mom said:

I wonder...  would you need all hands to do a gybe if you're not stacking?  Maybe a couple hands could rest at a time if the stack isn't being moved?

I'm wondering the same thing, maybe all hands are on deck, but that doesn't mean that they're not moving a stack.  

 

Everything I've read or video watched has indicated that moving the stack is a 40 minute procedure.  Was a fatigued Mapfre crew able to do it 16 times in 12 hours?  It's not impossible, but it's sure difficult.

 

Balance the stack and gybe at twice the rate of your competitor along the exclusion zone?  Theoretical cost benefit analysis aside that has to surely get into your opponent's head.

 

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1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

Infantries of the Navy, not infants of the sea, although some are not as old as the Corps...

b1938e33b6598e462bc983d40faa8796.png

The Spanish Armada has Infantry, and airplanes too...

spanish-pilot-686x1024.jpg

The US Marines themselves were named after the Spanish Marina.

Indeed, thanks to those smart Muslims we knew how to calculate the longitude while the other European nation kept running aground on the Scilly Islands two more centuries... hahaha

It’s a pity the English buccaneers and the frogs caught up.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Absoluely Brian...obviously no need to come back here snd waste your time on us idiots...but before you go  I just love your FP stuff about the bleeding fuckin obvious. The chick slant bit was pure genius. You sure you haven't got some cross gender thing happening...not shaving as much these days there Viking.. sorry Brian?

By the way there is a view that without any support to these trucks now, the whole show is dead. That will leave you, ModViking and Staysail with nothing to fuckin whinge about..what happens then for you guys??..back to golf?? 

Lighten up Francis :)
No need for golfing. I hear there is a round-the-world race next year in old long keeled slugs, without GPS and internet.
Now that's gonna be a lot of fun to watch - oh wait... :mellow:

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1 hour ago, chuso007 said:

 

The Spanish Armada ...................

 

Well we all know how that ended :lol:

 

 

 

(sorry Chus, had to but thanks for the translation the other day, all went well in Vigo)

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24 minutes ago, manin said:

The US Marines themselves were named after the Spanish Marina.

Indeed, thanks to those smart Muslims we knew how to calculate the longitude while the other European nation kept running aground on the Scilly Islands two more centuries... hahaha

It’s a pity the English buccaneers and the frogs caught up.

I think it is fabulous how you can take a leisurely cruise down the Spanish coast in a glass bottom boat and look at the Spanish Armada....and don't start me on White Flag factories.

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8 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

New today:
Two specials (gybe on DF and whales&dolphins) will follow.

Ominous. The threat of ice is bad enough. That scene with the whales reminds me of how many were out of the VG last year with close encounters. 

And again, Xabi (Inigo wins, because he is the PRINCESS bride ) talks of having done 30 gybes and 12 more to clear the AEZ?

What other campaign can claim that record, under these conditions? There were a couple times last year we were amazed by gybefests . . . . 

 

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16 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

Well we all know how that ended :lol:

 

 

 

(sorry Chus, had to but thanks for the translation the other day, all went well in Vigo)

:D:D Glad to hear that, If you need anything else you know where I am. I think I saw the barge yesterday, BTW.

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Is Laurent available for translation?

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/4265.html

 

I hope zat you noticed zat ze Frenchman waz speaking Inglische at ze beginning!

 

 

At 2:30 remaining, the young French bloke (I do not know his name...) is saying: "they have a multitude of layers of fleece, foulweather-watertight gear, wet baclava, that they have to put on and off each time they go on deck. Not much fun each time you have to get out of your warm sleeping bag to get back into those soaking wet clothes... But you have to do it! So they are wet, tired, cold, salty, but everything is fine!

 

At 1:35 remaining, Pascal Bidegorry explains that he is trying to wake up the off crew not too late for the gybes, so they have time to wake up and prepare. It is a bit complicated to coordinate because usually, when you want to do a maneuvre, it is a bit in an emergency mode. So when I call them, I say "please"... it is better. Or "I am sorry but we have to do this"... We try to anticipate, because outside, it is cold, it is wet, and they are getting a beating... At some point it is wearing them down... So you have to give them time to get ready to get in the cold.... Yes, I use the intercom to call everybody for the gybes against the icegate. Since the stronger wind is South, we are trying to get as close as possible to the icegate. You are sailing at 20-25 knots, you arrive pedal to the metal to a virtual wall. It is like an island: you are not allowed to touch it! Sometimes we get really really close... So I give a count down, 1 minute, 30 seconds... before the gybe..."

 

WOW! just WOW! They get to the ice gate just like the AC sailors???*

 

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19 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

Well we all know how that ended :lol:

 

 

 

(sorry Chus, had to but thanks for the translation the other day, all went well in Vigo)

:lol:

you beat me to it. 

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1 minute ago, Laurent said:

At 1:35 remaining, Pascal Bidegorry explains that he is trying to wake up the off crew not too late for the gybes, so they have time to wake up and prepare. It is a bit complicated to coordinate because usually, when you want to do a maneuvre, it is a bit in an emergency mode. So when I call them, I say "please"... it is better. Or "I am sorry but we have to do this"... We try to anticipate, because outside, it is cold, it is wet, and they are getting a beating... At some point it is wearing them down... So you have to give them time to get ready to get in the cold.... Yes, I use the intercom to call everybody for the gybes against the icegate. Since the stronger wind is South, we are trying to get as close as possible to the icegate. You are sailing at 20-25 knots, you arrive pedal to the metal to a virtual wall. It is like an island: you are not allowed to touch it! Sometimes we get really really close... So I give a count down, 1 minute, 30 seconds... before the gybe..."

Thanks Laurent.  This is the part I was interested in.

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9 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Shit, 

19 injured as car hits crowd in Melbourne, Australia

Eye witness account/video here on CNN:

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/12/21/melbourne-car-pedestrians-crash-vause-intv.cnn

 

 

sorry, but cars don't do anything.

some asshole driving a car hit a crowd

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6 minutes ago, Trovão said:

sorry, but cars don't do anything.

some asshole driving a car hit a crowd

This is heading dangerously close to PA territory. 

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Jack, and all you experts in big boat gybing campaigns: please help:

Believe me when I say my big boat racing experience is no help and waaaaay out of date (driving a 35' C&C on a 6 week campaign with brand new Dacron sails, using a Loran no one had any practise using, when our longest offshore leg was only a couple of nights in the Gulf of St Lawrence).

On board MAPF, who is schooling whom? Are Tuke and Sinclair showing the VOR how it's done? Vice versa? (sam question for all the other positions and nationality combinations) Is Tamara teaching, learning, what's the best way  to see her place on this team?

Bow risks? Sophie's back when Neti is on shore?

Re gybing. Outside gybes, right? More 'expensive than  . . .  grannys or upwind tacking duels? Does the number of headsails make a difference here? Canting/runner complications?

How to compare 30 or what might be 42 gybes under these conditions? Historical precedents?

Truly, TIA. Sorry if I can't acknowledge the debts I may incur--I think I'm out of lickys and will probably be catching up on answers for weeks to come

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20 minutes ago, stief said:

Jack, and all you experts in big boat gybing campaigns: please help:

Believe me when I say my big boat racing experience is no help and waaaaay out of date (driving a 35' C&C on a 6 week campaign with brand new Dacron sails, using a Loran no one had any practise using, when our longest offshore leg was only a couple of nights in the Gulf of St Lawrence).

On board MAPF, who is schooling whom? Are Tuke and Sinclair showing the VOR how it's done? Vice versa? (sam question for all the other positions and nationality combinations) Is Tamara teaching, learning, what's the best way  to see her place on this team?

Bow risks? Sophie's back when Neti is on shore?

Re gybing. Outside gybes, right? More 'expensive than  . . .  grannys or upwind tacking duels? Does the number of headsails make a difference here? Canting/runner complications?

How to compare 30 or what might be 42 gybes under these conditions? Historical precedents?

Truly, TIA. Sorry if I can't acknowledge the debts I may incur--I think I'm out of lickys and will probably be catching up on answers for weeks to come

They have 2-3 headsails so they can't just gybe all of them simoultaniously. Some furling involved I guess. These sails aren't "normal" spinnakers :) maybe the biggest sail is gybed outside. For sure not inside, unless in the Doldrums. Then they have the outriggers.

Then they have to get the main in and out again, and daggerboards if they are in use. They have a limit so not in high boat speed. Would have been fun to know the limit! Anybody knows? 

The runners also have to be remembered of course. 

All in all most efficient with all hands on deck. 

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In the latest material put online by DF, they are always showing photos/videos shot toward the stern or inside. I wonder if they have broken something. They seem to have lost the edge speedwise (not only due to the further apart gybes).

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59 minutes ago, Trovão said:

sorry, but cars don't do anything.

some asshole driving a car hit a crowd

Some asshole coward to be exact 

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27 minutes ago, jesposito said:

Some asshole coward to be exact 

ditto!

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

By the way there is a view that without any support to these trucks now, the whole show is dead. That will leave you, ModViking and Staysail with nothing to fuckin whinge about..what happens then for you guys??..back to golf?? 

That's great jack, I be they had not thought about changing what they write to protect their income!

Pure genious.  That way we can all read happy happy shit and agree with each other, sounds like fun.

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

In the latest material put online by DF, they are always showing photos/videos shot toward the stern or inside. I wonder if they have broken something. They seem to have lost the edge speedwise (not only due to the further apart gybes).

Yes, may very well be the case

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Long time lurker.  There is a lot you can criticize about the race, but one thing does not seem to get enough credit.   I just cannot imagine mental and physical challenge of match racing for days in the southern ocean.   Does not matter they are professionals, look at the wear on their faces.  Not sure there is any other sporting event that requires that level of commitment.  Also, the leadership skills that must be required to get the most out of each crew member hour after hour for days.  There is no downtime for leaders on DF and Mapfre.

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6 minutes ago, hbsurfer said:

Long time lurker.  There is a lot you can criticize about the race, but one thing does not seem to get enough credit.   I just cannot imagine mental and physical challenge of match racing for days in the southern ocean.   Does not matter they are professionals, look at the wear on their faces.  Not sure there is any other sporting event that requires that level of commitment.  Also, the leadership skills that must be required to get the most out of each crew member hour after hour for days.  There is no downtime for leaders on DF and Mapfre.

I don't think a majority of people on here criticize the race, it's just that the negative people get the most attention.  Also many don't post who would be on the positive side of the fence, as with you.

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3 minutes ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

Notice no stack to weather...

 my guess is Mapfre has moved the stack below over the keel or aft .

I did notice during the Daily Live segment with DF they appeared to have a split stack evenly between port and starboard.  Maybe both teams are looking for ways to reduce fatigue during rapid fire gybes?

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6 minutes ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

Notice no stack to weather...

 my guess is m109405_crop110015_800x800_proportional_Mapfre has moved the stack below over the keel or aft .

Is it so bad to have the stack below when going downwind? It probably forces the helm to sail further down a bit slower but in term of VMG it might not be that bad!

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1 minute ago, Panoramix said:

Is it so bad to have the stack below when going downwind? It probably forces the helm to sail further down a bit slower but in term of VMG it might not be that bad!

definitely better below on center than on deck split!

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Surprised MF didn't jibe on that 10 degree lift they're on right now.  Probably a bigger gain than any of those small ones on the ice line.  DF could gain if they grab it when they get to it.

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Looking at the fcst a little closer, it sure looks like any of the top 4 could put 3-6 hours on port to a good advantage.  There's no pressure advantage to the south anymore (TB TWS = 35) and the wind is going to back 10+ degrees after this little wave goes by.  Betcha we see jibes in the next sched.

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2 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

It's inspiring to watch, but not necessarily inspiring to post on an hourly basis. 

 

I don't know what you're referring to.

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2 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Surprised MF didn't jibe on that 10 degree lift they're on right now.  Probably a bigger gain than any of those small ones on the ice line.  DF could gain if they grab it when they get to it.

I've given up questioning JV.

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Someone's been reading SA. 

Leg 3 Strategic Review Part 3: Final approach. by Mark Chinsel

Hard work pays off for MAPFRE and Dongfeng on the approach to the finish

After a week spent hard up against the ropes – weaving like Muhammed Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle – MAPFRE and Dongfeng Racing Team finally broke free of the Ice Exclusion Zone this morning. All their hard work has been rewarded with open water and a fast final approach to the finish in Melbourne.

MAPFRE skipper, Xabi Fernandez could have played a blinder here, pushing his crew really hard at the crucial moment to gain what could become an unassailable lead.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/10640_Leg-3-Strategic-Review-Part-3-Final-approach.html

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3 hours ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

Notice no stack to weather...

 my guess is Mapfre has moved the stack below over the keel or aft .

I think they still had the stack. It seemed to be slightly more aft. The video from the gybes show stack at 50/50 and some of the other picks with Tamara show stacking behind her. This tweet from the team seems to indicate that they were moving a lot of weight around with every gybe (1 Ton), which I'd think it includes the stack. Just a guess anyway.

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Well bugger my old dog.

Have just come in and what's happened to the race.... Seems the Dongf have been blown away.

Southern - Am not sober but the electrics worked just fine and dandy - got away with it again........:)

Will go do some reading before I make any further inane comment.....

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12 minutes ago, poiuytre said:

I think they still had the stack. It seemed to be slightly more aft. The video from the gybes show stack at 50/50 and some of the other picks with Tamara show stacking behind her. This tweet from the team seems to indicate that they were moving a lot of weight around with every gybe (1 Ton), which I'd think it includes the stack. Just a guess anyway.

It makes sense to stack more aft, for reaching and downwind. But I still think it's not a full stack. 

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9 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

It makes sense to stack more aft, for reaching and downwind. But I still think it's not a full stack. 

Chipping in - depends how much the bow wants to go down.....

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Okay so Mapf's gain since 07.00 is predominantly down to sailing in more pressure.

Anything else? Levels of knackeredness or psychology aside.

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THE BLOG OF ÑETI: THE NIGHTS OF THE 12 GYBES

"I do not know if we will win this stage, I do not know if we will win the round the world, but nights like yesterday are what make a winning team and above all, and now I think I can speak on behalf of all, be proud to belong to the Mapfre project and represent Spain in the round the world, one of the toughest competitions on the planet."

http://www.expansion.com/nauta360/mapfre-in-the-vor/2017/12/21/5a3be7d3e2704e606d8b4607.html

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5 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Chipping in - depends how much the bow wants to go down.....

Of course. I'm not familiar with this boat so I'm no expert. It's really interesting though. In OD these are the details that makes a difference, and why OD is so great. Just found out that the x-35 (current Class for me, best so far in my career) next year will be in my home country, can't wait :D 

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3 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

It's inspiring to watch, but not necessarily inspiring to post on an hourly basis. 

55 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I don't know what you're referring to.

Sorry s-crossed, I gave the Lion a like, thinking of some oracular pirate here. Later thought that you might be nettled by it, being our most proficient poster by a sea mile. You are of in fact the darling of this forum, no doubt about it !

Stief also gave a like, don't know who he had in mind, maybe himself ;)  (no, he is darling nr. 2)  

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Just now, NORBowGirl said:

Of course. I'm not familiar with this boat so I'm no expert. It's really interesting though. In OD these are the details that makes a difference, and why OD is so great. Just found out that the x-35 (current Class for me, best so far in my career) next year will be in my home country, can't wait :D 

Nor me - OD is the real cruncher and a fantastic opportunity to learn.

Picked up on comments about the level rising since the last race and no doubt this is true.

I'd bet RG and IW have had a chat or two between races with knowledge and experiences being shared especially the thoughts that arise post race which show possibility and merit exploration.

Did the forum get to the bottom of what changes were made to the boats since the last race. We know about the J0 and reduced mainsail luff curve but what else has changed.

Any offers?

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14 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Sorry s-crossed, I gave the Lion a like, thinking of some oracular pirate here. Later thought that you might be nettled by it, being our most proficient poster by a sea mile. You are of in fact the darling of this forum, no doubt about it !

Stief also gave a like, don't know who he had in mind, maybe himself ;)  (no, he is darling nr. 2)  

Thanks sweetie, I like when I don't have to post. Others are far more interesting. So, agreed with Lion that I should post less. SC knows I respect his posts and his contributions to the VOR threads. E.g, SC saw immediately the significance of Chisnell's article, and found the Ñeti blog. Two tabs now closed.

FWIW, here's the gtrans snip I was about to add if our Spanish Laurent wasn't available: Doesn't answer some speculation earlier if Ñeti reads here, but goes give perspective on how last nights gybefest was seen by experts close to the team. They hate it, but love it (when it works)

Quote

I know perfectly what it feels to be on board and I imagine how my teammates will be ... When you are off guard, you have just finished a jibe and you do not have ten minutes lying on the floor with your clothes on and someone looks at the locker and He says: "We kid-kick kids." At that time, many times, you hate the race, you hate the boat, you hate sailing ... but deep down we are delighted to compete and fight, and if you get a result like that you have had, even better.

 

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20 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

I'd bet RG and IW have had a chat or two between races with knowledge and experiences being shared especially the thoughts that arise post race which show possibility and merit exploration.

Did the forum get to the bottom of what changes were made to the boats since the last race. We know about the J0 and reduced mainsail luff curve but what else has changed.

Any offers?

There was something about the mast being moved further back to allow more use of the forward sails--never did track that down.

And +1 to the RG/IW discussion. Dare we hope for bar talk from Melbourne?

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Someone's been reading SA. 

Leg 3 Strategic Review Part 3: Final approach. by Mark Chinsel

Hard work pays off for MAPFRE and Dongfeng on the approach to the finish

After a week spent hard up against the ropes – weaving like Muhammed Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle – MAPFRE and Dongfeng Racing Team finally broke free of the Ice Exclusion Zone this morning. All their hard work has been rewarded with open water and a fast final approach to the finish in Melbourne.

MAPFRE skipper, Xabi Fernandez could have played a blinder here, pushing his crew really hard at the crucial moment to gain what could become an unassailable lead.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/10640_Leg-3-Strategic-Review-Part-3-Final-approach.html

 

Clearly,
XF Asked the right thing at the right moment,
at the time where each mile counted double (*), DF tried esoteric options instead of keeping his lead, like in match racing.
(*) everyone knew that the two leaders will be in a position where the rich will become richer, and that was not to the leader to take risky option...

Hearing Bidégorry in the video saying "we have to wake up people in advance to prepare a jybe because it is cold and wet outside and it is what is complicated" make me laugh.
OMG, it is not like the love boat !

Sad to see, once again, the lack of vision of Caudrelier

Sad to see so much people amazed by this race when reality is the level is poor.
Seeing regularly DF in 1rst or 2nd place when you know that Caudrelier would have hardly his place in the top 5 french sailors (Gabart, Camas, L Peyron, Desjoyaux probably well ahead), if not even in the top ten, tell a lot on the level of other teams...

Volvo65 is probably better and more robust boat than volvo70, but 2011/2012 VOR was clearly at a higher level
F. Cammas/Groupama,  I. Martinez/Telefonica,  C Nicholson/Camper and K. Read/Puma please come back !


 

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2 minutes ago, stief said:

There was something about the mast being moved further back to allow more use of the forward sails--never did track that down.

And +1 to the RG/IW discussion. Dare we hope for bar talk from Melbourne?

Get the spies on the ground.......

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3 minutes ago, ardel said:

Sad to see so much people amazed by this race when reality is the level is poor.
Seeing regularly DF in 1rst or 2nd place when you know that Caudrelier would have hardly his place in the top 5 french sailors (Gabart, Camas, L Peyron, Desjoyaux probably well ahead), if not even in the top ten, tell a lot on the level of other teams...

Volvo65 is probably better and more robust boat than volvo70, but 2011/2012 VOR was clearly at a higher level
F. Cammas/Groupama,  I. Martinez/Telefonica,  C Nicholson/Camper and K. Read/Puma please come back !


 

Oh we are not worthy..................

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6 minutes ago, ardel said:

Sad to see, once again, the lack of vision of Caudrelier

Sad to see so much people amazed by this race when reality is the level is poor.
Seeing regularly DF in 1rst or 2nd place when you know that Caudrelier would have hardly his place in the top 5 french sailors (Gabart, Camas, L Peyron, Desjoyaux probably well ahead), if not even in the top ten, tell a lot on the level of other teams...

Volvo65 is probably better and more robust boat than volvo70, but 2011/2012 VOR was clearly at a higher level
F. Cammas/Groupama,  I. Martinez/Telefonica,  C Nicholson/Camper and K. Read/Puma please come back !

Once the flame bait is filtered, there are some interesting points here.

1. Charles' efforts are probably better compared to Mike Sandison's (building inexperienced sailors into a team, like China into world sailing), no? 

2. 2012 was really about Juan K designs, not the sailors who rode them. The failures there were freighted around the world. Not impressive to watch, though some impressive test of the teams to repair the boats, like Telefonica at the Horn, Abu Dhabi in Aukland, and Camper in Chile, etc. Not a test of a team to race. Much like the "top" French single handers--too often it's about the boat design. Any chance there will be a race where they get to go up against each other in 'identical' boats? Until then, we'll never be able to tell. 2017 is about one-design, where we get to see a test of teams, not kit or even individuals.Knut Frostad's dream. The VO65 has allowed this. 

Amazing, not sad. Don't know how Gabard  and co would handle the lack of a doghouse.

So, can't see much merit in your claim that Charles does not deserve appreciation. If anything, seems like he is taking French sailing in a different, maybe even better, direction.

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38 minutes ago, ardel said:

 

Sad to see so much people amazed by this race when reality is the level is poor.
Seeing regularly DF in 1rst or 2nd place when you know that Caudrelier would have hardly his place in the top 5 french sailors (Gabart, Camas, L Peyron, Desjoyaux probably well ahead), if not even in the top ten, tell a lot on the level of other teams...


 

Haha go back to your cave and stick to eating Camembert.

Now tell me that Vestas, DF, AkzoNobel or Mapfre do not have a good level.

Dude... really? I don’t know where to begin with.

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21 minutes ago, stief said:

Once the flame bait is filtered, there are some interesting points here.

1. Charles' efforts are probably better compared to Mike Sandison's (building inexperienced sailors into a team, like China into world sailing), no? 

2. 2012 was really about Juan K designs, not the sailors who rode them. The failures there were freighted around the world. Not impressive to watch, though some impressive test of the teams to repair the boats, like Telefonica at the Horn, Abu Dhabi in Aukland, and Camper in Chile, etc. Not a test of a team to race. Much like the "top" French single handers--too often it's about the boat design. Any chance there will be a race where they get to go up against each other in 'identical' boats? Until then, we'll never be able to tell. 2017 is about one-design, where we get to see a test of teams, not kit or even individuals.Knut Frostad's dream. The VO65 has allowed this. 

Amazing, not sad. Don't know how Gabard  and co would handle the lack of a doghouse.

So, can't see much merit in your claim that Charles does not deserve appreciation. If anything, seems like he is taking French sailing in a different, maybe even better, direction.

I concur with you in every respect.

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1 minute ago, manin said:

I concur with you in every respect.

Umm, thanks, but there's nothing there that hasn't been better said by others. "Don't credit the messenger?" 

Better yet "Please accept my resignation. I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member." Groucho Marx
Hmm. thought that was Mark Twain or W.C. Fields. Need to check.

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52 minutes ago, ardel said:

 

Clearly,
XF Asked the right thing at the right moment,
at the time where each mile counted double (*), DF tried esoteric options instead of keeping his lead, like in match racing.
(*) everyone knew that the two leaders will be in a position where the rich will become richer, and that was not to the leader to take risky option...

Hearing Bidégorry in the video saying "we have to wake up people in advance to prepare a jybe because it is cold and wet outside and it is what is complicated" make me laugh.
OMG, it is not like the love boat !

Sad to see, once again, the lack of vision of Caudrelier

Sad to see so much people amazed by this race when reality is the level is poor.
Seeing regularly DF in 1rst or 2nd place when you know that Caudrelier would have hardly his place in the top 5 french sailors (Gabart, Camas, L Peyron, Desjoyaux probably well ahead), if not even in the top ten, tell a lot on the level of other teams...

Volvo65 is probably better and more robust boat than volvo70, but 2011/2012 VOR was clearly at a higher level
F. Cammas/Groupama,  I. Martinez/Telefonica,  C Nicholson/Camper and K. Read/Puma please come back !


 

With your stunning insight and knowledge of offshore racing, I’m amazed you’re left on the dock and posting from your armchair. 

 

Why hey don’t you tell us more words of wisdom?

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8 minutes ago, stief said:

Umm, thanks, but there's nothing there that hasn't been better said by others. "Don't credit the messenger?" 

But you put it all together so succinctly.

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3 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Looking at the fcst a little closer, it sure looks like any of the top 4 could put 3-6 hours on port to a good advantage.  There's no pressure advantage to the south anymore (TB TWS = 35) and the wind is going to back 10+ degrees after this little wave goes by.  Betcha we see jibes in the next sched.

 

3 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

And a great time to go stealth since they're all out of AIS

Sorry for the interruption. Anyway, back to the best team racing we've seen in a while. DFRT's 'turbo teamwork' has been challenged by MAPF. Can't see DFRT folding.

Did you get a chance to estimate their chances? Next sked is due.

 

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Looks like Mapfre sunk.  Race over.

Oops.  There they are.  Stealth Mode.  Good call Mr Dumas (any relation to Alexander?)

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Well well well. That will bother MAPF somewhat, perhaps,, since they are tired and sore, no doubt. Vila will have to take time out from planning his S-H Christmas. But I doubt this will bother them a whole much.

Well played Charles :D

And we see TBRUN has gained. That'll be the match to watch now.

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1 hour ago, ardel said:

 

 

Sad to see so much people amazed by this race when reality is the level is poor.
Seeing regularly DF in 1rst or 2nd place when you know that Caudrelier would have hardly his place in the top 5 french sailors (Gabart, Camas, L Peyron, Desjoyaux probably well ahead), if not even in the top ten, tell a lot on the level of other teams...

Volvo65 is probably better and more robust boat than volvo70, but 2011/2012 VOR was clearly at a higher level
F. Cammas/Groupama,  I. Martinez/Telefonica,  C Nicholson/Camper and K. Read/Puma please come back !


 

Shut up - you;'re talking shit

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27 minutes ago, stief said:

Once the flame ...
 

1. Partly true, but we can't exagerate the weight of one or to chinese onboard
Beside, if not experimented, they proved to learn quickly.

2. 2012 Dunno for others but Cammas did work on the design to optimize reaching. He did not only rode on it.
Failures put aside, routing strategies where more interresting.
With leaders being conservative and challengers inovative, like it should be.

My main concern about Caudrelier is he run the boat without taking (enough) into account others' position
You can tell the 'late jybe' in LEG2 was a lack of luck, but he did same mistake in LEG3.
Models are not perfect, you have to make  compromise and extrapolate worst case scenario.
But also, you have to keep in mind that the goal in such a race is not to have the fastest course, but be in front of the others
And tactically, it is very different.

I hope DF will start stealth mode soon, to put pressure on Mapfree who currently has an easy game.

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Just now, ardel said:

I hope DF will start stealth mode soon, to put pressure on Mapfree who currently has an easy game.

Much better post.

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Just now, Kenny Dumas said:

Just got in from a solstice bike ride, scheds up, jibes and stealth mode ;-)

I'm having a solstice cocktail at the moment.  Good calls on the sched.

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15 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Looks like Mapfre sunk.  Race over.

Oops.  There they are.  Stealth Mode.  Good call Mr Dumas (any relation to Alexander?)

Thanks, not exactly, he was my Dad's favorite author though, hence inspiration at nom de plume time.

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1 minute ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Thanks, not exactly, he was my Dad's favorite author though, hence inspiration at nom de plume time.

Sorry, I meant Vito Dumas.

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1 minute ago, ardel said:

1. Partly true, but we can't exagerate the weight of one or to chinese onboard
Beside, if not experimented, they proved to learn quickly.

2. 2012 Dunno for others but Cammas did work on the design to optimize reaching. He did not only rode on it.
Failures put aside, routing strategies where more interresting.
With leaders being conservative and challengers inovative, like it should be.

My main concern about Caudrelier is he run the boat without taking (enough) into account others' position
You can tell the 'late jybe' in LEG2 was a lack of luck, but he did same mistake in LEG3.
Models are not perfect, you have to make  compromise and extrapolate worst case scenario.
But also, you have to keep in mind that the goal in such a race is not to have the fastest course, but be in front of the others
And tactically, it is very different.

I hope DF will start stealth mode soon, to put pressure on Mapfree who currently has an easy game.

1. Agree, but still--all the difficulty of bringing China into sailing was a challenge well accomplished.

2. Yes on the optimization. IIRC, they had meetings with JK? after Capetown, because they had done so poorly in the Atlantic. Their speed showed on the last leg of the CT->Abu Dhabi reach . We never really got to see the routing strategies because of the stealth blackout in the pirate zone off Somalia. 

[Main concern] Fair enough. Have been a bit surprised by Pascal. But then, in Leg 1 it was Charlie and SiFi on VS11 (Stan Honey/ Vestas routing?) who surprised us in Gibraltar and led the way to Lisbon. With 'no doldrums' , no nav on leg 2 had an easy time, and no nav will ever call a perfect race in a race that lasts 9 months. Charles/Pascal deserve the benefit of the doubt there. PS--See how unsad we were, despite the trolls, in the Legs 1 and 2 threads. The nav strategies we saw there made the last editions AIS bubble tactics a thing of the past. And yes, models were a major topic there. To the point where the threads were about little else. 

[last point] Your hope achieved. stupid stealth has been activated :) 

Now can we get back to the happy place and enjoy what we can this edition?

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3 minutes ago, stief said:

Now can we get back to the happy place and enjoy what we can this edition?

I don't comment LEG1 which is probably the best DF did with their come back.

Few media reported that DF did say they hit something in Gibraltar (probably a plastic or wood stuff) and then saw other boat going faster "at their right and at their left" for a while

(http://www.ocsport.com/en/news/view/dongfeng-race-team-complete-impressive-come-back-to-score-valuable-podium-i#.WjxkNnkiHQw)


They later also hit something else which had no consequence (probably a big fish)

But of course, on the 1rst race you can't claim too loud
"I am happy of our come back and without the incident we could have been 1rst"

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