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southerncross

VOR Leg 3 Cape Town to Melbourne and the Great Land Down Under

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Anyone there in Melbourne with some local knowledge?

Looks like the next boats in about 3 hours to the channel -- if their VMG and wind hold.  Currently, wind would be pretty much directly at them in that narrow channel just beyond the entrance to Port Phillips.  Could they even make it through if tide and wind were against them?

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3 hours ago, mdeh said:

Anyone there in Melbourne with some local knowledge?

Looks like the next boats in about 3 hours to the channel -- if their VMG and wind hold.  Currently, wind would be pretty much directly at them in that narrow channel just beyond the entrance to Port Phillips.  Could they even make it through if tide and wind were against them?

http://www.bom.gov.au/vic/observations/melbournemap.shtml

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Will make it through but will probably not be restacking on every tack as the channel is as narrow as 400 m in some places.

The tide will start ebbing in 2 hours so 1-2 knots against  while going 9 miles up a narrow channel is always fun.

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28 minutes ago, yacht said:

Will make it through but will probably not be restacking on every tack as the channel is as narrow as 400 m in some places.

The tide will start ebbing in 2 hours so 1-2 knots against  while going 9 miles up a narrow channel is always fun.

Scallywag going through right now.  SOG 11...  with a TWA of 49  ... so much for that thought.   :rolleyes:

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20 hours ago, southerncross said:

Yo Melbourne. Where are the spectator boats?  Wait.  What's that?  A little skiff?

Should be a few out there as Scallywag and TTOP roll up the bay (in fuck all breeze)...

 

Wind is best seen at baywx.com.au

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44 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

 

42 minutes ago, yacht said:

Will make it through but will probably not be restacking on every tack as the channel is as narrow as 400 m in some places.

The tide will start ebbing in 2 hours so 1-2 knots against  while going 9 miles up a narrow channel is always fun.

4 tacks so far!

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3 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Scally 17+ tacks, about to turn and burn 

Yowser...   nope.. one more ;)

What do you think? Split stacks with the keel left alone and centered?

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AIS shows 3-4 breadcrumbs per board.  Assuming 30sec interval that’s time to tack keel. Stacks centered. 

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Forecast in the tracker suggests it's going to die entirely soon and then fill in from the south.  Scally needs to make tracks while they can.  It would be a shame to be flogging 4 nm from the finish with TToP bringing the new breeze up from the rear.

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Ugh...  the agony of DTF always being double your VMG, as you creep along into diminishing wind...

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Failing wind, Scally gliding toward finish 17 miles ahead.

5-6 kts TWS & BSP. Vs TTOP 7-8 TWS& BSP. TWD 70 degree difference beating up wind  

Maybe 8 miles to finish... 

Witt & crew should persevere to claim 2nd last of the unbroken boats.  

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What's with all the special makers that run along the south of the bay up to Martha point. Some are wind farms? 

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12 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Failing wind, Scally gliding toward finish 17 miles ahead.

5-6 kts TWS & BSP. Vs TTOP 7-8 TWS& BSP. TWD 70 degree difference beating up wind  

Maybe 8 miles to finish... 

Witt & crew should persevere to claim 2nd last of the unbroken boats.  

Hey Lion, thanks for keeping up, Have you noticed all the Aussies here have disappeared, even southern. Guess they are watching cricket, you know, cricket with a wicket, and even slower then sailing...  Can't be the S2H which is starting in a good hour, with real Live coverage. 

Sorry Scanass, didn't see you, good on you!

 

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36 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Have you noticed all the Aussies here have disappeared, even southern

Hey.  It was Xmas with the kids.  I'm watching.  Getting ready for S2H in 50 mins.  Should be a good one.

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

Hey.  It was Xmas with the kids.  I'm watching.  Getting ready for S2H in 50 mins.  Should be a good one.

You're a good father X-mas, you're excused. And agree, the VOR has to wait for the S2H start, even Witty will be watching it...

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Scanas if your refering to all the yellow poles along the beaches those belong to ParksVic to keep powerboats and jet skis away from swimmers  inside the poles they can only do 6 knots back to the beach

 

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Just back from a bike ride following TTOP up the bay from Blairgowrie....so frustrating for them as the northerly fights the seabreeze...for a zero sum result..had a coffee at mornington and watched them throw in a couple of tacks out of frustration.....slooooow. Perfect day for anything but sailing here, but at least they'll have defrosted!

Now for the WOXIfest that is the predictably pathetic coverage of the Sydney To Hobart....thankfully Nic and her Sailor Girl coverage saves the day.

Go Chutzpah!!!

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1 hour ago, Couta said:

Just back from a bike ride following TTOP up the bay from Blairgowrie....so frustrating for them as the northerly fights the seabreeze...for a zero sum result..had a coffee at mornington and watched them throw in a couple of tacks out of frustration.....slooooow. Perfect day for anything but sailing here, but at least they'll have defrosted!

Now for the WOXIfest that is the predictably pathetic coverage of the Sydney To Hobart....thankfully Nic and her Sailor Girl coverage saves the day.

Go Chutzpah!!!

This is AGONIZING!!!  :rolleyes:

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Whew! TTOP safe and sound: mission accomplished. Dee focused on the responsibility of making sure this was a safe leg for her crew, and succeeded. Looking forward, wonder what her lesson plan is for the next leg: time to take her crew to the next level, or save that until the Atlantic?

(If this sounds like a stuffed turkey, good call. Time to waddle off to bed). Peace all.

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On 12/24/2017 at 5:27 PM, southerncross said:

Screen Shot 2017-12-25 at 1.26.44 AM.png

[Chronicle of an epic victory] cold, water streams, humidity, lack of sleep... But, without a doubt, it was worth it @vamosMAPFRE 

So, are we gonna talk about this?

6BEAD935-648B-4E87-BC79-F4ED82526223.jpeg.4125b97e780e7f54c29f7734f9aaa5e3.jpeg

My guess: camera eyepiece injury while getting an epic firehose shot.

The competitors aren’t the only badasses in this race.

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1 hour ago, jbc said:

So, are we gonna talk about this?

6BEAD935-648B-4E87-BC79-F4ED82526223.jpeg.4125b97e780e7f54c29f7734f9aaa5e3.jpeg

My guess: camera eyepiece injury while getting an epic firehose shot.

The competitors aren’t the only badasses in this race.

Hm. Alternate explanation based on this:

1528AD30-CBBA-4CAD-81EA-572CD3828B23.jpeg.85b795818bdcbbcd5c37f07e8112aa22.jpeg

Xabi and Jen got in a brawl. They had to separated by Rob, who held them apart by the scruffs of their necks.

F90B7A87-EED7-4C9E-A6CE-15B3CB939880.jpeg.bd2fb2d4f01670e9d4379dc1dec6d9be.jpeg

You can raise your eyebrows. But I’m just saying, the only people who know are the ones who were there. What happens in the Southern Ocean stays in the Southern Ocean.

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Seriously though: what happened to António’s arm?

479EE2D7-7869-4D19-918B-61AD549BCE43.thumb.jpeg.1f918efb7b018d67b8faa1379d4ec3a2.jpeg

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Good point Chasm....an opening to appeal the SI fix up limitations for this pitstop after having to do that "mast under bridge" lateral stress routine to an already broken rig assembly? Watch this space.

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Have we heard anything official or on the ground re boat repairs with regard to the SI's? Especially DF's keel ram and AKZO mast.

Saw the comment credited to Nick Bice referring to DF's ram about getting them up to 100% for the next leg.

Hopefully some pragmatism prevails amongst the teams, RO and jury with regards assistance/ spares beyond that permitted in the SI's.

To reiterate I think the jury have some discretion available to them regarding any penalty so they could decide not to penalise a team.

The jury's job is to be fair to all.

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If AKZO hit more light wind as looks likely am wondering if the RO will shorten the course and allow them to get the engine going.

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8 hours ago, jbc said:

Hm. Alternate explanation based on this:

Xabi and Jen got in a brawl. They had to separated by Rob, who held them apart by the scruffs of their necks.

You can raise your eyebrows. But I’m just saying, the only people who know are the ones who were there. What happens in the Southern Ocean stays in the Southern Ocean.

Ha ha--good eye [intended]. Bit of a Catch-22:lol: Rather like TBRU's toe last leg, and the IJ Umpire calls for Capetown (NBG: the filter for the Race docs work), and lots more "esoteric"  issues. As for Fontes arm, thought that was covered in one of the raw vids.

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If I was RO had shortened the course right about after TTT finished.
The only reason to keep racing at this point is the total elapsed time and Akzo is no real contender for that extra point. Call them with the offer to shorten to where they are now, another 24h added to their total time (a few h less than projected) and call it a day. No real need to drag it out, esp. once they reach the bay. It's not like they are going to slowboat the rest of the way.

Do some interviews instead of the live arrival show, might be interesting for a change.

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2 hours ago, Chasm said:

Doing that with Akzo after their issue must add a lot of fun.
Another ~29h.

And what if Telefonica's  a team's rudder was damaged in the process? :D

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Seems like a sensible course of action and let them use the engine when it will help the VMC to Melbourne.

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6 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

And also TTTOP.  Good work VOR !

Thanks for the arrival vids. Have a few to catch up over break.

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1 hour ago, rogerfal said:

If AKZO hit more light wind as looks likely am wondering if the RO will shorten the course and allow them to get the engine going.

Difficult to shorten a leg when a) 6 of 7 boats have finished (see RRS 32.2 and b ) total elapsed time for the whole race is worth a point.

SS

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28 minutes ago, Chasm said:

If I was RO had shortened the course right about after TTT finished.
The only reason to keep racing at this point is the total elapsed time and Akzo is no real contender for that extra point. Call them with the offer to shorten to where they are now, another 24h added to their total time (a few h less than projected) and call it a day. No real need to drag it out, esp. once they reach the bay. It's not like they are going to slowboat the rest of the way.

Do some interviews instead of the live arrival show, might be interesting for a change.

Scratch my previous comment - just checked the SIs AND Point 1.4 reads "RRS 32.2 add: RRS 32.2 final sentence is deleted and replaced with: After one or

more boats have finished, the course may be shortened for boats still racing."

Should have checked them before I posted - apologies guys

SS

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33 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Seems like a sensible course of action and let them use the engine when it will help the VMC to Melbourne.

Unless they get less than 5 knots wind and flat seas I don't see the engine helping anyway. They pretty much sail faster than motoring in anything over that. Perhaps if they get unlucky entering the bay...

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I know I am biased but with former Boatyard Manager Nick Bice stating that it was "unheard of broken cylinder" then to penalise Dongfeng for such an unusual failure of a supplied part which was supposedly (can't remember where I read or heard that) tested to way over the expected stresses should the boat need pulled for the repair would, I feel, be somewhat unfair.

Not so sure about the required repair to Akzo's mast as it does appear that a crash gybe caused the failure and so could be put down to crew work but even then I would say it is marginal. Surely these boats had parameters in their design to allow for Southern Ocean loads.

What do people think?

SS

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22 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Difficult to shorten a leg when a) 6 of 7 boats have finished (see RRS 32.2 and b ) total elapsed time for the whole race is worth a point.

SS

They (RO) give themselves the option in the SI's to shorten after the first boat has finished. Can't see too much problem with them being given a time which coincides with their ETA - see Chasm post 3512.

Edit - just seen your re-post above.

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13 minutes ago, oceangeek said:

Unless they get less than 5 knots wind and flat seas I don't see the engine helping anyway. They pretty much sail faster than motoring in anything over that. Perhaps if they get unlucky entering the bay...

Agree - note I said when it helps their VMC which could also involve some motor sailing. I don't know the boat so don't know at what sort of speed / conditions that might be.

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25 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

I know I am biased but with former Boatyard Manager Nick Bice stating that it was "unheard of broken cylinder" then to penalise Dongfeng for such an unusual failure of a supplied part which was supposedly (can't remember where I read or heard that) tested to way over the expected stresses should the boat need pulled for the repair would, I feel, be somewhat unfair.

Not so sure about the required repair to Akzo's mast as it does appear that a crash gybe caused the failure and so could be put down to crew work but even then I would say it is marginal. Surely these boats had parameters in their design to allow for Southern Ocean loads.

What do people think?

SS

Bice's comments made me think there's room for a reasonable compromise. The Melbourne stopover didn't allow the boatyard to be moved (logistical, presumably), so the VOR wrote the rules to emphasis that teams would have to prepare accordingly, but that unusual situations could be handled by the IJ who would have access to all relevant facts.

SHKS apparently also hinted they had keel issues, so with three teams involved, the other 4 need to check too.

So, I think the DFRT's keel issue can be fairly handled. 

As for the mast/sails issues, surely teams were aware that the masts have design parameters, and like the sails, are not indestructible. However,  even the most honest parameters are only educated guesses, as seen in the tether design for for the Clipper harnesses. How OAs react, then,  is a different issue.

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2 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I know I am biased but with former Boatyard Manager Nick Bice stating that it was "unheard of broken cylinder" then to penalise Dongfeng for such an unusual failure of a supplied part which was supposedly (can't remember where I read or heard that) tested to way over the expected stresses should the boat need pulled for the repair would, I feel, be somewhat unfair.

Not so sure about the required repair to Akzo's mast as it does appear that a crash gybe caused the failure and so could be put down to crew work but even then I would say it is marginal. Surely these boats had parameters in their design to allow for Southern Ocean loads.

What do people think?

SS

 

If I were Vestas, I would be rather upset if the SI gets set aside after the fact because unknown cause of damage, which can be anything from excessive pounding during keel canting operations, random failure due to defect. Both of which are part of life.

To me, the only difference between the cylinder busting and a busted mailsail or a spinnaker is there's an issue of safety involved. From the Bice's POV he's concerned about safety but also one design - of course his people will have to step in and assist. But I don't think it'd be fair to Vestas or Brunel - which seem to have preserved their boat better. Bouwe in particular will probably not hesitate to point out that part of VOR experience is preserving the boat - and if teams that consistently are able to push much much harder get a freebie every time, then rewrite the bloody sailing instructions.

Maybe I'm showing my age - but the VO65 class after a 2nd cycle, these issues seem rather minor compared to previous VO class issues, how many lose part of the rig in the modern high speed era? 70-80% How many have major hull failures? 

Geely/DF is a prime sponsor everyone wants to continue in the event and future support for the VOR, but OA needs to workout an arrangement whereby... DF must lose a point or something, and if they refuse repair the keel because of the penalty (I can't imagine Charles being this reckless) - DNS for failure to comply with safety/one design standards.

It'll probably be tougher job trying to apply the rules simultaneously with DF and Akzo - it'll seem absurd if Akzo gets -1 in their situation for picking up some more epoxy and battens, OTOH - rules are rules and no epoxy/battens doesn't impact their safety and it is more about performance.

 

Edit: I think after leg 3, with only 8 legs remaining, 1 double point leg, Cape Horn point, 1st bonus points - it practically is becoming statistically impossible for any team with fewer than 10 points after leg 3 to win overall. They can still podium, but will have to pull off consistent and stunning upsets against the top 3. With DF/Vestas and MAPFRE so consistent, you'll have to beat all 3 to really improve in the standings. Really rough outlook but the earlier teams recognize and adjust their strategy - the better chances of them winning legs. 

 

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Miffy makes a good point.  Preservation is definitely a race strategy for the overall win.  Some elected to save the boat and lose ground.  Others pushed and saw damage.  

Can't win if you don't push.  Can't win if you break the boat. 

The question is, had Dongfeng and Akzo sailed more conservatively would the damage still have occurred?  Nicho admitted he could have saved the gybe.  But Dongfeng's damage is questionable.  Breaking their mast last time was questionable as well.

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Yes all valid points. The Jury's job is to be fair to all - not always easy!!

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I think fate can screw you over - DF's bad luck last cycle started with a bad wave/bad helm while power reaching to Cape Town that destroyed a padeye, and took out a bunch of stuff on starboard. Then the mainsail track, then finally the mast. Charles and DF fans will surely chalk it down to excessive bad luck. I'm sure if you asked Ian Walker, he'd say you create your own luck. TBH that's the only reason I continue to follow offshore ocean events. Boat preservation and luck is actually a thing.

 

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I'd struggle to find the video but I clearly remember IW talking about that and also how when approaching Cape Horn they did put the hammer down contrary to their normally slightly reined in style.

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^^ Agree Miffy, It didn’t happen to Mapfre, like it didn’t happen to AD last edition, that is both no coincidence...

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1 minute ago, Elisa said:

^^ Agree Miffy, It didn’t happen to Mapfre, like it didn’t happen to AD last edition, that is both no coincidence...

Most probably something in that........

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Agee with much above, especially about the distinction between safety, OD, and sails.

Re 'luck', Nicho's comments to Clean in the AbuDhabi stopover (IIRC) last edition are remarkable: Something to the effect that how  "luck" is handled, is the key to winning in sailing, an so, arguments about 'luck' miss the point.  That also supports IW.

Still, SI rules have to be fluid, thus the need for the IJ to make the hard call. Maybe the SIs can't be adjusted as quickly as many would wish, but rules do evolve. The point that VS11 could well be the most injured party is relevant.

Hope we get to see what decision they make. Not an esoteric issue of interest to only a few.

[late edit.] Couldn't find the Nicho vid, but lots of good relevant points here https://youtu.be/jDVVSZJmfwk?t=405 especially since this was just before the crash.

 

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Yes more transparency of jury proceedings would be good (thread drift like the Comanche WOXI protest if it gets to the room).

It would promote understanding and learning.

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Don’t want to go too esoteric on you guys, it is bloody 7.30am here, but part of the magic of this race for me is who can get all parts, boat, team, and fate aligned, only then you can win. Mapfre didn’t succeed last edition but now seems on right track. Xabi ‘owns’ it and creates his own fate this time around. Very impressive. 

The scoreboard is brutal for some, Akzonobel’s campaign started so well before the race but now things are not aligned. Spirit seems okay which is remarkable and to be admired. Kudos for this team. 

Bouwe will most likely not get his desired win this round, perhaps because there are still financial worries in the background? All this kind of noise has influence on performance, not directly but indirectly. It takes away from the single pointed focus that is needed to get all aspects aligned. 

For those of you looking for empirical evidence for this......there isn’t any, ...but ask all Olympic gold medalists and they know what I mean. 

 

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3 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I know I am biased but with former Boatyard Manager Nick Bice stating that it was "unheard of broken cylinder" then to penalise Dongfeng for such an unusual failure of a supplied part which was supposedly (can't remember where I read or heard that) tested to way over the expected stresses should the boat need pulled for the repair would, I feel, be somewhat unfair.

Not so sure about the required repair to Akzo's mast as it does appear that a crash gybe caused the failure and so could be put down to crew work but even then I would say it is marginal. Surely these boats had parameters in their design to allow for Southern Ocean loads.

What do people think?

SS

DongFeng and AN both overstressed their boats. Frequent and or bad gybes have consequences.  Both should honor the rules and race what they have. 

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3 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

I know I am biased but with former Boatyard Manager Nick Bice stating that it was "unheard of broken cylinder" then to penalise Dongfeng for such an unusual failure of a supplied part which was supposedly (can't remember where I read or heard that) tested to way over the expected stresses should the boat need pulled for the repair would, I feel, be somewhat unfair.

Not so sure about the required repair to Akzo's mast as it does appear that a crash gybe caused the failure and so could be put down to crew work but even then I would say it is marginal. Surely these boats had parameters in their design to allow for Southern Ocean loads.

What do people think?

SS

 

Things that should have been done the moment DF reported the damage:
- Pull all keel system records.
Which testing was done at what time on the cylinders in general and the failed cylinder specifically?
What were the design parameters, and how do they line up with the modified boat design?
- Talk to the NDT guys.
What testing can be done to rule out, or confirm, similar issues on the remaining 13 cylinders in the fleet + spares? (My guess is dye penetrant testing. Needs removal for access.)
- Depending on how deep the scratches we saw on the keel box actually are.
Is ultrasonic testing of the keel box required to rule out structural issues? Maybe do it anyway.

Decision time. Is the keel cylinder a safety relevant part or not.

If not, nutthin.
If so send in a team to pull, NDT and reinstall all cylinders. No other work to be performed. Find something in the rules that gives OA&BY the authority to do so. 
 

That is just with the damage we saw on DF. It is not really clear what problem the other boats had. BAD OBRs! 

 

"Tough luck"

Hm. Careful what you wish for.
Main issue for AKZO is having not enough left to repair the next major damage. I'd be tempted to solve this with a sealed container of epoxy. Open it during next leg and take a penalty.
The keel cylinder is more complex. It is safety relevant and should not have failed in the first place. One ram is enough to continue but likely not enough to start a leg. Further investigation is required. NDT may uncovers similar issues on other boats. 

I think the defining question is this: Is the cylinder a part that should not have failed no matter what. - Or did the keel system come with a user manual, say like the outriggers?

 

Then there is always the question of another NOR change. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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36 minutes ago, stief said:

Re 'luck', Nicho's comments to Clean in the AbuDhabi stopover (IIRC) last edition are remarkable: Something to the effect that how  "luck" is handled, is the key to winning in sailing, an so, arguments about 'luck' miss the point.  That also supports IW.

Not just luck. Or luck at all. 

The essence of Kevin Hall's excellent article is that intuition plays a big role.  That kind of instinct that comes from miles of experience, knowing what will happen before it happens.  The action of the water becomes familiar and in time predictable.  The action of the boat starts to speak.  The creaks and moans are telling.  The muscles in your arms and legs start to move with the boat, not against it.  The wind on your face translate volumes of information as do the vibrations in your fingers.  It tells you when something is not right or when all is perfect and in harmony.  If you're out there long enough you'll start to talk to the boat and believe its speaking back.  Not lunacy.  Symbiotoc relationship.  Your survival, the boats survival is codependent.  Ancient animism.  All the greats come to this realization.  We all know it.  When were one with the boat and the sea.

Anyway, I believe deeply in this and you can call me nuts if you want.  The best team are like this.  Intimately in tune with their boat and surroundings, the navigator a phrophesier.

 

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

Not just luck. Or luck at all. 

The essence of Kevin Hall's excellent article is that the intuition plays a big role.  That kind of instinct that comes from miles of experience, knowing what will happen before it happens.  The action of the water becomes familiar and in time predictable.  The action of the boat starts to speak.  The creaks and moans are telling.  The muscles in your arms and legs start to move with the boat, not against it.  The wind on your face translate volumes of information as do the vibrations n your fingers.  It tells you when something is not right or when all s perfect and in harmony.  If you're out there long enough you'll start to talk to the boat and believe its speaking back.  Not lunacy.  Symbiotoc relationship.  Your survival, the boats survival is codependent.  Ancient animism.  All the greats come to this realization.  We all know it.  When were one with the boat and the sea.

Anyway, I believe deeply in this and you can call me nuts if you want.  The best team are like this.  Intimately in tune with their boat and surroundings, the navigator a phrophesier.

 

I’m with you SC, exactly my thoughts, all needs to be in sync, and if that happens, magical things happen, one of them: winning the VOR. 

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52 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I think fate can screw you over - DF's bad luck last cycle started with a bad wave/bad helm while power reaching to Cape Town that destroyed a padeye, and took out a bunch of stuff on starboard. Then the mainsail track, then finally the mast. Charles and DF fans will surely chalk it down to excessive bad luck. I'm sure if you asked Ian Walker, he'd say you create your own luck. TBH that's the only reason I continue to follow offshore ocean events. Boat preservation and luck is actually a thing.

 

Plus a broken rudder and blown up headsail lead in leg one last time. Having a reputation for breaking boats will not help if they need outside parts or assistance prohibited by the SIs. But they do have Mr. FixIt and it will be interesting to learn how extensive the damage is and what can be done about it. If indeed a broken cylinder, let's hope the jury shows mercy. -1 point for a replacement seems well worth it IMHO. More (negative) than that would be excessive.

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4 hours ago, stief said:

Ha ha--good eye [intended]. Bit of a Catch-22:lol: Rather like TBRU's toe last leg, and the IJ Umpire calls for Capetown (NBG: the filter for the Race docs work), and lots more "esoteric"  issues. As for Fontes arm, thought that was covered in one of the raw vids.

I don't see anything in a Scallywag video on this leg about Fontes injuring his arm, but he does appear to already be favoring it (and maybe it's in a sling?) in this one: 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/4111.html

Maybe it was something that was covered in a Live Update? I haven't watched any of those for this leg. Or maybe I missed a video.

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2 minutes ago, jbc said:

I don't see anything in a Scallywag video on this leg about Fontes injuring his arm, but he does appear to already be favoring it (and maybe it's in a sling?) in this one: 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/4111.html

Maybe it was something that was covered in a Live Update? I haven't watched any of those for this leg. Or maybe I missed a video.

It certainly came up more than once in the "Live"

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In the original SIs the rules were pretty carefully set up. The RC has the call of whether additional work or assistance may be done on a boat, at the request of the boat. They had the option of referring the request to the IJ if they wanted.  So, in principle, all is covered. 

There remain however a few difficulties.  As I noted earlier, there is a mistake (I assume a mistake) in the modified SI, in that the modification removes the discretion of the RC in allowing such work in Melbourne. It sounds a bit as if the boatyard is quietly ignoring this mistake - which is perhaps the best idea. Easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.

Of course where you get a deeper problem is that the RC becomes the arbiter of the fairness of allowing additional work to proceed (including allowing haul out or rig removal.) One assumes the intent of the rule was for just the circumstances we see, where actual damage needs repair, and to disallow work that would otherwise just freshen up a boat. This discretion isn't really a RC's job, and it needs to be seen to be fair, as well as be fair. 

The suggestion I had after the previous round of stupidity (SCA's jib) was that the VCA needs to be the authority that decides that a repair is needed in order for the boat to meet the class rule - which should include safety of the boat. But that places what is probably unwelcome responsibility upon them (although the membership of all these bodies has significant overlap.)

This is where a commercially owned event becomes hard to make look like a conventional regatta. In the end the owners of the event have ultimate say. They draft a whole set of rules, involve a jury appointed by World Sailing etc, but in the end, they own the event. But we have seen a few times where an IJ has gone a little feral (in the eyes of the OA) the 34th AC especially. I can't imagine the actions of the IJ in the last VOR were what the OA hoped for. Which is why the SIs gave the RC the initial call this time around. The IJs understand that application of the rules needs to be done in an utterly fair manner, without wiggle room. So they apply the precise letter of those rules. That is what you get when you get an IJ - they do what it says on the tin. Just better be very very clear what the rules you ask them to enforce mean, as they don't do reinterpretation. 

There is no easy answer. Add a bit more wiggle room and you can be sure the teams will be lining up to exploit it. That is just the nature of competitive sailing.

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Forget any rules. Basic seamanship requires the broken ram on DF to be repaired/replaced to the skippers satisfaction before that boat voluntarily sets sail into an ocean again. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot!

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4 minutes ago, staysail said:

Forget any rules. Basic seamanship requires the broken ram on DF to be repaired before that boat voluntarily sets sail into an ocean again. Talk about shooting onself in the foot!

Alright as in hello Staysail.

100% on the seamanship. There are rules too including I'm sure something about preparedness of the boats so it's all covered.

Merry Christmas ;):)

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38 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Alright as in hello Staysail.

100% on the seamanship. There are rules too including I'm sure something about preparedness of the boats so it's all covered.

Merry Christmas ;):)

Happy New Year!!

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

Forget any rules. Basic seamanship requires the broken ram on DF to be repaired/replaced to the skippers satisfaction before that boat voluntarily sets sail into an ocean again. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot!

So there are no extra parts to be had during pit stop. What with starting next leg, sail back to the dock, suspend racing, take delivery of parts (new ram) have repair job done and continue racing... what is the problem, other then PIC lacking sense for basic seamanship and go on without repairs?

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12 minutes ago, Admirals said:

So there are no extra parts to be had during pit stop. What with starting next leg, sail back to the dock, suspend racing, take delivery of parts (new ram) have repair job done and continue racing... what is the problem, other then PIC lacking sense for basic seamanship and go on without repairs?

Anyone care to educate? I have a party to run off to.

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4 minutes ago, Varan said:

Anyone care to educate? I have a party to run off to.

Sorry Varan - all about the pit stop restrictions but too much for me to put into a sentence.

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10 minutes ago, Varan said:

Anyone care you educate? I have a party to run off to.

 
Verbatim from Sailing Instructions:
 
"
26. SUSPENDING RACING
26.1 On a Leg a Boat may suspend Racing under the following conditions:
(a) When a Boat suspends Racing after the preparatory signal she:
(i) Shall report to race control as soon as possible the circumstances and her
position where she suspended Racing
(ii) May use a propulsion engine, haul out or make fast until she resumes
Racing. This alters RRS 45
(iii) May, before resuming Racing, remove garbage, use any equipment or
receive help to effect repairs, but shall not take on food or other provisions
without the prior permission of the RC. This alters RRS 41 and 47.1
(iv) Shall, before resuming Racing, return to the position where she
suspended Racing and inform race control that she has resumed
Racing.
(b) A Boat that suspends Racing during the first 12 hours of the Leg shall not
resume Racing for a minimum of two hours.
(c) A Boat that suspends Racing after the first 12 hours of the Leg shall not
resume Racing for a minimum of 12 hours.
(d) On any other Leg a Boat may not suspend Racing within a 100 nautical mile
radius of a Leg finish line.
(e) A Boat may not suspend Racing on the last Leg.
 
"
 
 
 
 
 

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11 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Sorry Varan - all about the pit stop restrictions but too much for me to put into a sentence.

Don't forgot about outside assistance after the start, plus local noob rules.

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6 hours ago, jbc said:

I don't see anything in a Scallywag video on this leg about Fontes injuring his arm, but he does appear to already be favoring it (and maybe it's in a sling?) in this one: 

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/4111.html

Maybe it was something that was covered in a Live Update? I haven't watched any of those for this leg. Or maybe I missed a video.

Apologies--I was lazy and should have looked up the link, first noted by SC and family sailor here on Dec 14 (easily found by searching the thread for 'fontes').

It was in the Live (not raw), the one with Phil Laurence explaining the ice gates.  About 9 mins in: https://youtu.be/IckAuqgpCps?t=572

 

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6 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

DongFeng and AN both overstressed their boats. Frequent and or bad gybes have consequences.  Both should honor the rules and race what they have. 

And NOT Mapfre? They gybed a heck of a lot more than other teams and therefore canted the keel back and forth more times than any other boat.

I would imagine a lot depends on what the IJ (if it comes to discussing a penalty or not) considers was fault of the crew in boat handling or an unseen inherent fault with a part of the boat. Certainly even Bicey was surprised by the ram failure.

Whatever happens, the rules are the rules and teams will have to accept what happens and move on.

SS

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6 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

And NOT Mapfre? They gybed a heck of a lot more than other teams and therefore canted the keel back and forth more times than any other boat.

 

Yes SS.  But perhaps with more precision and expertise.  Imagine pulling off that many gybes, more than any boat in the fleet, without any damage at all?  That doesn't happen by accident.

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I wonder if it's possible to vary the speed of the cant rams or if there is only has one mode which can not be altered?

Or is the keel more loaded at certain angles and stressed in lumpy conditions like when they were upwind out of Cape Town.

In other words does the keel need to be managed to look after it?

Anybody know?

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Ya think the Akzo crew have cannibalized each other yet starting with Nicho Prairie Oysters?

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15 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Ya think the Akzo crew have cannibalized each other yet starting with Nicho Prairie Oysters?

You are asking for it, are you? Oysters au naturel for me...

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