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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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southerncross

VOR Leg 3 Cape Town to Melbourne and the Great Land Down Under

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

Of this already posted my apologies. Been a bit busy with the S2H

Yep.  All four have been posted.

Know anything about last minute crew changes in Melbourne?

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8 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Yes, but I'm nursing a beer and not feeling really up to it after an 8 mile hike with the kids.  Did I mention half of it was uphill?

This?  

  1. (b)  Crew Members who will sail on Leg 4 (Melbourne to Hong Kong) and up to a maximum of two shore crew nominated by e-mail to Race Control before December 12th may work on the Boat.

Yah - you have to lock yourself in 2 days AFTER the fleet leaves Capetown. If undeclared substitutions are allowed, they have to be medical like Pascal or Lush. 

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

Yah - you have to lock yourself in 2 days AFTER the fleet leaves Capetown. 

 I guess I thought that only related to work on the boat.  I was looking for specific wording that treated pit stops differently to a Leg stopover.

Oh well.  I like Camas.  Should make the racing that much more interesting.  It will test the Dream Team even more.

Edited by southerncross

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

 I guess I thought that only related to work on the boat.  

But you have to declare your crew. 

Would it not be absurd if you declared your crew but sailed with different ones? I hereby nominate regular boatyard team staff - all 9 of them will sail. Then oops all substitute for regular crew. 

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

But you have to declare your crew. 

Would it not be absurd if you declared your crew but sailed with different ones? I hereby nominate regular boatyard team staff - all 9 of them will sail. Then oops all substitute for regular crew. 

Sure.  Makes sense.  Pit Stops or not Leg Stopovers regarding crew changes.  But the specific wording in the rules?  How does a team interpret this?

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

Sure.  Makes sense.  Pit Stops or not Leg Stopovers regarding crew changes.  But the specific wording in the rules?  How does a team interpret this?

Ask the OA to clarify. It is pretty clear to me what the intent is. But I guess if one were Germanic lawyering you can do something nonsensical like saying I hereby declare this is my crew on Dec 12 but nothing specific says I'm limited to my Dec 12 crew list for the actual leg. 

Use 9+2 dockside members to prep boat. Then sail away leaving them all behind. 

 

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Other changes on Dongfeng include the return of Kiwi watch captain Daryl Wislang, who has now recovered from a back injury which kept him out of Leg 3, plus Vendée Globe star Jeremie Beyou and Chinese sailor Horace (Chen Jin Hao), who were also rested for the 6,500nm race from Cape Town to Melbourne.

They replace Fabien Delahaye, Stu Bannatyne and Black (Liu Xue) for stage four of the 45,000 nautical mile race around the planet.

This including Camas and Mettraux.

4 changes total.  Some scheduled and some not.  

That's a lot of fresh meat.

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@Miffy I see your point.  Originally, this was supposed to be a non stop Cape Town > Hong Kong.  The Melbourne Pit Stop was last minute.  In the spirit of the Leg it seems the crew were to remain intact as though it was only a short stop.  The challenge was to keep the boat and crew healthy through Melbourne to HK.  Swapping out half the team seems to run counter to this.

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18 hours ago, WLIS Jibing said:

I am flying into Melbourne today and want to get a peek of the boats, even if a brief one and from long distance.  Did you need tickets to get into the “village”.  If so, what are they going for and where can they be purchased?

 

thanks!!

Like all mongrel dogs...."Free to a good home"

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I think underneath it all sanity is prevailing.

The idea of a Cape Town to HK leg was insane from the get go. You can be pretty sure that the race office was desperately trying to work a stopover the moment HK became the next port. Melbourne was probably always the sensible one - but with no Oz team (Scallywag being the reason they are going to HK) getting buy in for a full stopover was always going to be hard. The mistake was letting lack of a stopover buy in from the host city get in the way of being able to have the needed maintenance performed. It almost seems like spite - Melbourne wouldn't come to the party with the dollars to get to everything that a full stopover brings, so the VOR dropped it to a pit-stop. Now they are having to face up to the fact that this was always unrealistic, and scramble to cover the inevitable damage that cannot be ignored. 

There are a huge pile of questions about the manner this gets done. Full haul-out, rig-out stopovers seems to be an exercise in getting the fleet back to as near OD spec as they can. This stopover clearly can't do that.  

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31 minutes ago, southerncross said:

@Miffy I see your point.  Originally, this was supposed to be a non stop Cape Town > Hong Kong.  The Melbourne Pit Stop was last minute.  In the spirit of the Leg it seems the crew were to remain intact as though it was only a short stop.  The challenge was to keep the boat and crew healthy through Melbourne to HK.  Swapping out half the team seems to run counter to this.

I wouldn't go as far as to say DF is doing something wrong. But other than Pascal's medical substitute, I hope the others were on the crew list submitted. 

IOW, those not on the list stepped off the boat onto the dock and aren't allowed back on. And those on the list are actually the substitutions. 

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1 minute ago, Miffy said:

I wouldn't go as far as to say DF is doing something wrong. But other than Pascal's medical substitute, I hope the others were on the crew list submitted. 

IOW, those not on the list stepped off the boat onto the dock and aren't allowed back on. And those on the list are actually the substitutions. 

Like Francis notes above, the last minute Pit Stop has raised a number of issues.  

Because there were so many restrictions placed on the teams at Melbourne, I was under the impression the same crew was to race through to HK unless, of course, an injury forbade it.  All the emphasis on resting and being injury free?   I wonder if any of the other teams will have replacements (as many) not caused by injury?

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33 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I wouldn't go as far as to say DF is doing something wrong. But other than Pascal's medical substitute, I hope the others were on the crew list submitted. 

IOW, those not on the list stepped off the boat onto the dock and aren't allowed back on. And those on the list are actually the substitutions. 

The requirement to nominate applies to the shore crew not the race crew.  You are torturing the English language with your interpretation.

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4 minutes ago, DtM said:

The requirement to nominate applies to the shore crew not the race crew.  You are torturing the English language with your interpretation.

You don't use the Oxford comma where you're from?

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To get to your interpretation you would need to insert a comma Oxford, Cambridge or Harvard after "shore crew" in the second line.  As it is there is an "and" prior to the shore crew description so that the nomination applies only to them.

I play with words and punctuation for a living.

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Huh. I thought it needed an Oxford after Hong Kong) to get yours. 

Alrighty then. I defer to your expertise at English - nothing to see here and disregard then. 

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We can agree to disagree.  Either way,  all of the teams are replacing people.  No crew lists were published on or after 12 December 2017.

Take care.

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2 minutes ago, DtM said:

all of the teams are replacing people

I totally missed this.  I wonder how they were going to pull this off if they hadn't stopped in Melbourne? 

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21 minutes ago, southerncross said:

I totally missed this.  I wonder how they were going to pull this off if they hadn't stopped in Melbourne? 

:)

Generally people are much more reasonable over here..

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2 hours ago, southerncross said:

I totally missed this.  I wonder how they were going to pull this off if they hadn't stopped in Melbourne? 

Ziplines 

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9 hours ago, southerncross said:

Other changes on Dongfeng include the return of Kiwi watch captain Daryl Wislang, who has now recovered from a back injury which kept him out of Leg 3, plus Vendée Globe star Jeremie Beyou and Chinese sailor Horace (Chen Jin Hao), who were also rested for the 6,500nm race from Cape Town to Melbourne.

They replace Fabien Delahaye, Stu Bannatyne and Black (Liu Xue) for stage four of the 45,000 nautical mile race around the planet.

This including Camas and Mettraux.

4 changes total.  Some scheduled and some not.  

That's a lot of fresh meat.

I suspect that it wasn't working well onboard. They weren't terribly smart in term of routing for a bunch of figaro sailors, may be there were tensions between some people hindering their performance.

Trouble is that now there are more stars on board, it will be hard for Charles to manage all these egos.

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11 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

I think underneath it all sanity is prevailing.

The idea of a Cape Town to HK leg was insane from the get go. You can be pretty sure that the race office was desperately trying to work a stopover the moment HK became the next port. Melbourne was probably always the sensible one - but with no Oz team (Scallywag being the reason they are going to HK) getting buy in for a full stopover was always going to be hard. The mistake was letting lack of a stopover buy in from the host city get in the way of being able to have the needed maintenance performed. It almost seems like spite - Melbourne wouldn't come to the party with the dollars to get to everything that a full stopover brings, so the VOR dropped it to a pit-stop. Now they are having to face up to the fact that this was always unrealistic, and scramble to cover the inevitable damage that cannot be ignored. 

There are a huge pile of questions about the manner this gets done. Full haul-out, rig-out stopovers seems to be an exercise in getting the fleet back to as near OD spec as they can. This stopover clearly can't do that.  

100% right. That's what I meant when I wrote that Melbourne should have been a stop with extra resources for reparis etc. Forget about public entertainment - especially since there doesn't seem to be too much public to be entertained - and focus on the repairs and crew wear and tear during the short pit-stops.

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I wonder if we’ll ever a comment from the new Volvo race management team?? 

The silence is reaching deafening proportions!! 

Have they issued one statement since Mark Turner left? 

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8 minutes ago, mad said:

I wonder if we’ll ever a comment from the new Volvo race management team?? 

The silence is reaching deafening proportions!! 

Have they issued one statement since Mark Turner left? 

Apparently not.  VOR Chinese owned now as well.

Geely already owned Volvo Cars and as such were 50% stakeholders in the VOR but an announcement of the purchase of 8.2% of Volvo AB, in effect makes them the majority stakeholder in the Volvo Ocean Race itself. Perhaps that fact may encourage more Chinese entries in future events. – Shanghai Sailor

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15 minutes ago, mad said:

I wonder if we’ll ever a comment from the new Volvo race management team?? 

The silence is reaching deafening proportions!! 

Have they issued one statement since Mark Turner left? 

That has now gone beyond bizzare?

Maybe they have been sacked before even having a chance to poke their heads above the public parapet?

 

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55 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

That has now gone beyond bizzare?

Maybe they have been sacked before even having a chance to poke their heads above the public parapet?

 

Being a Swedish organization, they will spend the first 3 months in Health & Safety classes, as well as training in how to speak, so that no one can ever become offended by anything they say.
They will be ready in a couple of months.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

I wonder if we’ll ever a comment from the new Volvo race management team?? 

The silence is reaching deafening proportions!! 

Have they issued one statement since Mark Turner left? 

I have forgotten what the statements were about....what exactly are we missing from them?

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

That has now gone beyond bizzare?

Maybe they have been sacked before even having a chance to poke their heads above the public parapet?

 

Wouldn't be Geely's style. When Geely bought Volvo, folks were concerned they would bastardize Volvo like GM/Ford did to Saab/Volvo by badge engineering some domestic market shit box and throwing a badge on it. Geely fully appreciated the lack of trust and brand recognition it had and left Volvo alone but threw more resources behind it. Much healthier brand now than when Ford owned it. 

Unless Geely has changed, it isn't going to rock the boat until it knows what it is doing. And the Swedish team, while not a name brand in the Anglo word, did run probably the most successful non-skipper driven program in the last edition. Certainly the best merchandise, social media/documentary operation the last edition. SCA last edition and TTOP this edition certainly shows you don't have to be competitive or first to be marketable. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I have forgotten what the statements were about....what exactly are we missing from them?

Any sign of life is what we are missing. 

Though I have to say, I’m not really surprised. 

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7 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Wouldn't be Geely's style. When Geely bought Volvo, folks were concerned they would bastardize Volvo like GM/Ford did to Saab/Volvo by badge engineering some domestic market shit box and throwing a badge on it. 

Miff maybe they have just said fuck it... and now just following the IKEA business model?

images (44).jpeg

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16 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Wouldn't be Geely's style. When Geely bought Volvo, folks were concerned they would bastardize Volvo like GM/Ford did to Saab/Volvo by badge engineering some domestic market shit box and throwing a badge on it. Geely fully appreciated the lack of trust and brand recognition it had and left Volvo alone but threw more resources behind it. Much healthier brand now than when Ford owned it. 

Unless Geely has changed, it isn't going to rock the boat until it knows what it is doing. And the Swedish team, while not a name brand in the Anglo word, did run probably the most successful non-skipper driven program in the last edition. Certainly the best merchandise, social media/documentary operation the last edition. SCA last edition and TTOP this edition certainly shows you don't have to be competitive or first to be marketable. 

 

 

What the fuck has that got to do with the lack of visiblility from the not so newly appointed race directors? 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

What the fuck has that got to do with the lack of visiblility from the not so newly appointed race directors? 

They're not promoting themselves. 

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6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

I suspect that it wasn't working well onboard. They weren't terribly smart in term of routing for a bunch of figaro sailors, may be there were tensions between some people hindering their performance.

Trouble is that now there are more stars on board, it will be hard for Charles to manage all these egos.

 

More stars? The only two people new to the campaign are Cammas and Mettraux. I don't think Cammas and Charles are going to have any issues considering their history...Charles wouldn't have called him if there was going to be an issue. 

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

They're not promoting themselves. 

They’re not promoting or supporting the race either at the moment. 

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7 minutes ago, DFL1010 said:

Came across this whilst brushing up on my French:

https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/voile/volvo-ocean-race/volvo-ocean-race-marie-riou-ces-vagues-enormes-qui-te-fauchent-5476377

You'll have to rely on a competent bi-linguist (or Google) for a decent translation I'm afraid. 

From what I could read she had a great time and learned a lot and she will now rest and be a tourist, going to Blue Mountains. I'm happy to say I've been there :)

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18 hours ago, mad said:

They’re not promoting or supporting the race either at the moment. 

Remember since MT chucked in the towel VOR is now (I think?) run by a guy who's views on leadership are that a crewed racing yacht does not require a skipper. The "team" will take care of everything.

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37 minutes ago, staysail said:

Remember since MT chucked in the towel VOR is now (I think?) run by a guy who's views on leadership are that a crewed racing yacht does not require a skipper. The "team" will take care of everything.

Of course, that well known ‘leaderless, leadership’ policy. :huh:

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On 29/12/2017 at 12:53 PM, mad said:

Is there anything in the book that’s nice to say to Nigel Farage?? :ph34r:

 

(yes, I know, PA is the second door on the left) 

I'll check when I get back to Vigo...

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Libby’s summary of the gybe fest: thought we’d hear more about such a remarkable feat.

Quote

Gybe off

 The next big move came from Mapfre who had been pushing Dongfeng all the way on this leg and then committed to 14 gybes in 25-35KT to stay in better pressure and shift along the ice zone and take lead form Dongfeng.

I don’t think anyone can fathom what that entailed: the energy, the crew work, the shear boldness to take on such a series of manoeuvres knowing it would ultimately mean you won the leg. The risk/reward conversation would have been very interesting. How do you weigh up the risk of a gybe going wrong like with Akzonobel, who did one bad gybe and were out of the race, versus the gain you could make. This is where experience, team work and time together pays dividends.

From https://bandg.com/volvo-ocean-race-2017/volvo-ocean-race-news/vor-libby-greenhalgh/volvo-ocean-race-leg-3-wrap-up-and-leg-4-preview/

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23 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Boatfeed Leg 3

Hey Chasm - maybe post on leg 4 for those who may not look here.

Cheers

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1 hour ago, Chasm said:

Boatfeed Leg 3

Thanks Chasm.

some notes:

-Interesting--Hatch shots as a measure of a leg's toughness.
-VS11 leaving CT: spectacular? Well, OK.  Chuny vs SHKS “Hey! Hey! What the fuck you doing? Water, water!”  Good point about catching the moment, especially catching him debriefing.

-The wave as best ever shot? —OK. Raised stern cam —good point.
-AKZO repair and drone. Well, point made, but bit sceptical.
-Liz—telling us what others didn’t. Yep. 
-Jen Edney. Gybefest—gave her "MASSIVE respect".OK. She’s cool. Women as OBR points: filed. Accident described well enough.
-JBC featured! Good pick, good to see his work recognized. Unnamed benefactor must be pleased too.

-Curious why the clip of MAPF ducking DFRT wasn’t picked. 
This was the best. So many aspects of the race and the best closing shots.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw/3304.html

https://volvooceanrace-2017-18.s3.amazonaws.com/videos/cropped/m108254_13-03-171210-dfg-00003_HD.mp4

5a51409153c4b_ScreenShot2018-01-06at3_30_36PM.thumb.png.03170f02595d8ea6870067d204a2beb2.png

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