freewheelin

C&C 29-2?

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Anyone have experience with these boats? There is one around me (WLIS) open - seems to be good shape at a good price. We are looking for a PHRF racer (mostly shorthanded), but also something we can grow into a little distance racing with.

We would do a little cruising as well (weekends or weeks at most), so looking for much more of a racer & daysailer than cruiser. 

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The Mk1 and 2 have been very popular on Lake Ontario for the last 30 years, with the biggest concentration of them in Rochester NY.  They are not the fastest, or the most accommodating when compared to today's European floating condos, but they will do all that you ask and do it relatively well as a true racer/cruiser should.  The Mk2 version is a little less "frightening" downwind in a blow, so if you are shorthanded, this is probably a plus.  My experience sailing in a mixed fleet of both versions is that it is also slightly quicker upwind and better in a chop given its narrower beam and "finer" entry.  As with any old cored boat, look out for the obvious.  

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There are 2 at my YC. Neither of them seem to be able to sail to their handicap. (183) but more then do with number of crew and ability me thinks  

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11 minutes ago, USA 236 said:

The Mk2 version is a little less "frightening" downwind in a blow, so if you are shorthanded, this is probably a plus.  My experience sailing in a mixed fleet of both versions is that it is also slightly quicker upwind and better in a chop given its narrower beam and "finer" entry.  As with any old cored boat, look out for the obvious.  

Thanks for the input. What makes them frightening downwind in a blow? Do they tend to be squirrely downwind?

I couldn't find much on them online, shore of a practical sailor article that had little info on their actual sailing characteristics  

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We owned one for nine years, liked it a lot. They do tend to hobby-horse in a chop, which slows them down. Solid glass hull, balsa cored deck. Pretty comfortable boat for its size but the V-berth is a little tight for a couple. Build quality is good. We liked ours enough that we bought a 35-3 of the same year.

We sold our 29-2 to a guy who raced it a lot and won. It does sail like a big dinghy sometimes.  

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For all things C&C go here and join the email list:

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/

These guys and girls know just about everything there is to know about C&C boats.  They are a friendly and  helpful bunch.  

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17 hours ago, freewheelin said:

Thanks for the input. What makes them frightening downwind in a blow? Do they tend to be squirrely downwind?

I couldn't find much on them online, shore of a practical sailor article that had little info on their actual sailing characteristics  

The Mk1 versions had a tendency to be a bit rollie pollie sailing dead down with a tendency to broach.  

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17 minutes ago, USA 236 said:

The Mk1 versions had a tendency to be a bit rollie pollie sailing dead down with a tendency to broach.  

Yes, the older 29 was one of the most tender boats to come out of the C&C design shop The 29-1 had a narrow waterline beam and a pinched stern, both of which made the boat a bit squirrely downwind. The 29-2 is a very different boat, but it is also a little tender.

stability.jpg

 

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31 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Yes, the older 29 was one of the most tender boats to come out of the C&C design shop The 29-1 had a narrow waterline beam and a pinched stern, both of which made the boat a bit squirrely downwind. The 29-2 is a very different boat, but it is also a little tender.

stability.jpg

 

thank you, it is really helpful to hear from a former owner. I sail in the protected long island sound, but have a few bucket list races that go further afield. For example, there is an around long island race, which would long slogs of open water on the southern and eastern shore. Provided all is in good shape, and moderate conditions, would that be something in this boats's wheelhouse?

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22 minutes ago, freewheelin said:

thank you, it is really helpful to hear from a former owner. I sail in the protected long island sound, but have a few bucket list races that go further afield. For example, there is an around long island race, which would long slogs of open water on the southern and eastern shore. Provided all is in good shape, and moderate conditions, would that be something in this boats's wheelhouse?

Should be no problem. We sailed ours all over Georgia Strait and the Gulf Islands, and I crewed on one during a particularly windy Swiftsure. If the skipper had taken our advice and hugged one of the shorelines, we would have done much better. As it was, punching into 4-foot seas in 25 knots of wind slowed us down quite a bit, and having to dodge big tonnage didn't help. Never had a concern about the strength of the boats.

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12 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Should be no problem. We sailed ours all over Georgia Strait and the Gulf Islands, and I crewed on one during a particularly windy Swiftsure. If the skipper had taken our advice and hugged one of the shorelines, we would have done much better. As it was, punching into 4-foot seas in 25 knots of wind slowed us down quite a bit, and having to dodge big tonnage didn't help. Never had a concern about the strength of the boats.

awesome to hear. thanks again for the input!

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I’ve had my 29 for 23 or so years and I am sailing out of Genesee Yacht Club, Rochester NY on Lake Ontario where we have 10 29’s and all but 1 or 2 race weekly in a one design fleet. Most of them are 29’s and 29-1’s with 3 29-2’s. 

As a past class president and cheerleader to get the GYC fleet from one to the numbers we have now (and still growing possibly by 3 next season) with 4 more at neighboring clubs.  As mentioned before the epicenter moved from Youngstown/Niagara on the lake ( where the factory was) to Rochester. 

I own a 29-0 and love it, people say it’s tender downwind but if you keep the Boat “under the chute” it sails like a bat out of hell. Any boat can be tender if you don’t sail it right. Heel it over running downwind in a blow while heating it up, no doubt the rudder will loose its grip. But I’ve done the same driving a Farr/Mumm 30.  Upwind I shorten sail earlier than other boats in certain conditions but can point. In light air if set up right it’ll and it’s not your first time sailing the boat you’ll be able to keep moving and as fast or faster than boats with the same speed potential  

when C&C introduced the 29 it was meant to replace the 30 as an updated model, but both sold well

The only thing that the 29/29-1 and the 29-2 share is the name. The difference between the 3 versions is as follows: the original had forward and aft lower shrouds, oven/stove, removable table and diesel was an option in ‘77, mine was the 4th one made at the Rhode Island plant (Carroll Marine) and finished in Oct ‘76. For the model year ‘77. 

In ‘79 the 29-1 was introduced. they switched the rigging to a single lower shroud and a baby stay, updated the cabin, 2 burner stove different ports a teak strip Other than that the hull and deck were pretty much the same loa 29’7.25”, beam 10’3 5/8, draft 5’3”. J dimension is 12.75”. 

The 29-2 is a different boat all together  I don’t have the exact measurements but roughly it’s 28’6” loa, 9.5’ beam  mast is a foot shorter, J dimension also a foot shorter and the boom is 1 longer. It’s closer to a 27-3 than a 29. 

They both rate the same on Lake Ontario. I prefer the earlier or “original” 29, I don’t get my glasses knocked off by the backstay (I do on the mk2), bigger cockpit, bigger cabin area. As far as performance it can go either way depending on the Boat, sails, crew and preparation. People say that the 29/29-1 were better in light air, 29-2 in heavy air but I don’t necessarily agree.  

So there is my comments, I could talk about these boats all day(like you couldn’t tell already by my post!) , I’ve collected much of the history of the class, sailed with the charter members of the fleet, documented how the class started, how they worked with the designers and sailmakers, learned all that I could from getting beat by and sailing with the Chief, Skip Doyle out of the Niagara river (YYC & NOLSC) who is legendary and one with the most wins in our fleets. 

Any questions let me know

John - Celtic Fire  

 

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you can check out the race results at www.genesseyc.org besides the fleet scores for the comparison of the 3 models we score them overall too so you can see how they do against all of the boats (albeit staggered starts and different conditions may be had through the race, so it’s a representation but may not be as accurate as one would like ) 

 

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The boat has beautiful lines, IMHO. Very  sexy. One of the few C&C’s I haven’t gotten a ride on as yet, so nothing if real value to add, other than I’m looking for one for myself. 

Only problem is that most have wheels. Only seen one fillet boat on the market around here and they want too much. 

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Yes, the older 29 was one of the most tender boats to come out of the C&C design shop The 29-1 had a narrow waterline beam and a pinched stern, both of which made the boat a bit squirrely downwind. The 29-2 is a very different boat, but it is also a little tender.

stability.jpg

 

No wonder you say it sails like a big dinghy. 

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10 hours ago, Peanut Butter said:

The boat has beautiful lines, IMHO. Very  sexy. One of the few C&C’s I haven’t gotten a ride on as yet, so nothing if real value to add, other than I’m looking for one for myself. 

Only problem is that most have wheels. Only seen one fillet boat on the market around here and they want too much. 

Ours had a tiller, so no issues trying to fit behind the wheel. It was a great boat for singlehanding, all the controls were right there.

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Irish member if anyone wants a 29-II at Genesse I've got 1985 model for sale. Ready to race with full race inventory including spinnakers. Freshwater only on Lake Erie.

Jude4 (2) (1) (2).jpg

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great, I’ll pass it on and put it in the FB page, send me the details!  

 

Thanks.   John Meagher 

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On 11/23/2017 at 1:16 AM, Peanut Butter said:

The boat has beautiful lines, IMHO. Very  sexy. One of the few C&C’s I haven’t gotten a ride on as yet, so nothing if real value to add, other than I’m looking for one for myself. 

Only problem is that most have wheels. Only seen one fillet boat on the market around here and they want too much. 

I agree, they are good looking boats. The wheel is a big drawback in my opinion. But given what others have said about the characteristics, looks like all in all is a nice package. There is always given and take when looking at older boats. You have to live with what someone else wanted at the time.

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23 hours ago, Callahan said:

Irish member if anyone wants a 29-II at Genesse I've got 1985 model for sale. Ready to race with full race inventory including spinnakers. Freshwater only on Lake Erie.

Jude4 (2) (1) (2).jpg

For sure this one is a PHRF-LE cheater boat......  HA HA

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On 11/22/2017 at 5:23 PM, irishember said:

I’ve had my 29 for 23 or so years and I am sailing out of Genesee Yacht Club, Rochester NY on Lake Ontario where we have 10 29’s and all but 1 or 2 race weekly in a one design fleet. Most of them are 29’s and 29-1’s with 3 29-2’s. 

As a past class president and cheerleader to get the GYC fleet from one to the numbers we have now (and still growing possibly by 3 next season) with 4 more at neighboring clubs.  As mentioned before the epicenter moved from Youngstown/Niagara on the lake ( where the factory was) to Rochester. 

I own a 29-0 and love it, people say it’s tender downwind but if you keep the Boat “under the chute” it sails like a bat out of hell. Any boat can be tender if you don’t sail it right. Heel it over running downwind in a blow while heating it up, no doubt the rudder will loose its grip. But I’ve done the same driving a Farr/Mumm 30.  Upwind I shorten sail earlier than other boats in certain conditions but can point. In light air if set up right it’ll and it’s not your first time sailing the boat you’ll be able to keep moving and as fast or faster than boats with the same speed potential  

when C&C introduced the 29 it was meant to replace the 30 as an updated model, but both sold well

The only thing that the 29/29-1 and the 29-2 share is the name. The difference between the 3 versions is as follows: the original had forward and aft lower shrouds, oven/stove, removable table and diesel was an option in ‘77, mine was the 4th one made at the Rhode Island plant (Carroll Marine) and finished in Oct ‘76. For the model year ‘77. 

In ‘79 the 29-1 was introduced. they switched the rigging to a single lower shroud and a baby stay, updated the cabin, 2 burner stove different ports a teak strip Other than that the hull and deck were pretty much the same loa 29’7.25”, beam 10’3 5/8, draft 5’3”. J dimension is 12.75”. 

The 29-2 is a different boat all together  I don’t have the exact measurements but roughly it’s 28’6” loa, 9.5’ beam  mast is a foot shorter, J dimension also a foot shorter and the boom is 1 longer. It’s closer to a 27-3 than a 29. 

They both rate the same on Lake Ontario. I prefer the earlier or “original” 29, I don’t get my glasses knocked off by the backstay (I do on the mk2), bigger cockpit, bigger cabin area. As far as performance it can go either way depending on the Boat, sails, crew and preparation. People say that the 29/29-1 were better in light air, 29-2 in heavy air but I don’t necessarily agree.  

So there is my comments, I could talk about these boats all day(like you couldn’t tell already by my post!) , I’ve collected much of the history of the class, sailed with the charter members of the fleet, documented how the class started, how they worked with the designers and sailmakers, learned all that I could from getting beat by and sailing with the Chief, Skip Doyle out of the Niagara river (YYC & NOLSC) who is legendary and one with the most wins in our fleets. 

Any questions let me know

John - Celtic Fire  

John knows his stuff.  So take the above as a review of the boat, grounded in fact!

 

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2 hours ago, freewheelin said:

I agree, they are good looking boats. The wheel is a big drawback in my opinion. But given what others have said about the characteristics, looks like all in all is a nice package. There is always given and take when looking at older boats. You have to live with what someone else wanted at the time.

Agreed. Also have to live with available inventory. No point spending your days looking for a virgin unicorn...

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On 11/24/2017 at 6:06 PM, USA 236 said:

For sure this one is a PHRF-LE cheater boat......  HA HA

why is this one a cheater boat?

 

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14 hours ago, Callahan said:

Yes USA 236, why is it a cheater boat? 

Sorry Bill,  a poor attempt at humor.  

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I'm going to look at one of these tomorrow. I am hoping it is in good shape! Any common issues I should keep an eye out for?

The broker mentioned that the port lights need re-bedding. I am assuming that is common for a boat this age (83) and not too expensive of a project.

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2 hours ago, freewheelin said:

I'm going to look at one of these tomorrow. I am hoping it is in good shape! Any common issues I should keep an eye out for?

The broker mentioned that the port lights need re-bedding. I am assuming that is common for a boat this age (83) and not too expensive of a project.

Check the deck for delamination and wet balsa core, check the mast step. I took a small hammer with me to do a quick pre-survey so I didn't waste money on a surveyor if the boat didn't sound well. Very common for the portlight adhesive to fail and the acrylic to start crazing. Replace, don't re-bed. Cheap as boat projects go. All the information you need is on the C&C email list ("Stu's List"). Good luck and have fun.

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Port lights are not that easy to fix because they have a slight curve which causes corners to leak. Replace with proper adhesive (Dow 795?).  Over drill oversize screw holes (about 6) and caulk holes.  A heat gun applied judiciously might help bend the plexiglass a little.  Cockpit soles are cored with plywood under pedestal area and where rudder post penetrates sole.  Very common for core to be wet there. Lean heavily against the pedestal and if deck flexes you have a problem.  $2500 fix if done professionally.  Rudders are susceptible to absorbing water. If in a cold climate, they can delaminate and distort. $1800 fix to recore, glass, and refair. The 83 had the old style stanchions. Check for spider cracks and delamination where they penetrate the deck.  The only real deal killer is the sump.  Check for any cracks around mast step and in stringers in forward section of the bilge. Repair is costly because the port bulk head needs to be removed, some stringers cut out, reglassed, and and everything put back.  Big dollars for labor on that one. Fortunately that only happens after a hard grounding at the perfect angle.

Good luck, they are great boats. I have a 85 for sale with no problems in Ohio. I also have an almost new set of teak and holly floor boards for an 83. Bought them to find out they had different cutout than my 85

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I owned one of these for a few years on the Chesapeake.  Liked it a lot.  I put a bunch of money into it making it better and actually made money on it when I sold it.  Check the cockpit deck. They are a known weak spot.  A number of them have been rebuilt or reinforced.  Mine was okay but the gel coat cracks in the corners made you think.  The original traveler is junk.  Replaced it with a custom built Garhauer.  Schaffer clutches are also junk. Easily replaced with Spinlock clutches.  As mentioned previously port lights will leak and the only solution is replacement.  I had no deck issues on mine, but agree with the comment on taking a small hammer along to tap on the deck, because these are not new boats.  The bilge sump is pretty small and if the pump isn't working well the floors will show the water damage as a result.  I see you are on the East Coast so I assume the thing is on blocks.  The hulls are solid glass, but still worth tapping it here and there, especially around the through hulls.  Also look at the rudder and tap on it to see how wet it is.  If it is out of the water, check the C&C smile where the keel joins the hull.  It is a common issue, but can be fixed.

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Funny, was typing my post when Callahan did his. What he says backs up my experience.

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One correction to Stinger's great list - the C&C smile is where the lead keel meets the keel sump, not the hull. Not a biggie but to do it right requires dropping the keel, cleaning out the joint, and re-attaching. Lots of debates about what to seal it with (e.g,. 3M 5200 vs 4200) and whether you want to wrap it with a single layer of fiberglass cloth. As noted above, all things revealed on Stu's C&C list or the C&C photo album site, http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/

Cheers, Greg

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11 hours ago, Callahan said:

Cockpit soles are cored with plywood under pedestal area and where rudder post penetrates sole.  Very common for core to be wet there. Lean heavily against the pedestal and if deck flexes you have a problem.  $2500 fix if done professionally. 

Thanks for the tip on this. I believe there is some moisture there, but I am also told that is pretty common for these boats. How do I know how much is too much, and the core needs to be replaced?

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The moisture in and of itself isn't necessarily the issue.  The question is how has the moisture affected the core material (in this case plywood, in other locations on the boat, balsa) and the bonds between the core and the skins?  It the core is moist, but hasn't delaminated/rotted/etc, then the structure (for now) still retains most of its strength, and is not of immediate concern.  Longer term, the moisture will eventually cause the core material to delam/rot, and the skins to delam from the core.  Then it needs to be fixed.  This is when you'd see flex by leaning on the pedestal.  Also up in LIS, enough moisture in the core could freeze over the winter enough and expand enough to cause the skin to split/crack.  

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44 minutes ago, Crash said:

The moisture in and of itself isn't necessarily the issue.  The question is how has the moisture affected the core material (in this case plywood, in other locations on the boat, balsa) and the bonds between the core and the skins?  It the core is moist, but hasn't delaminated/rotted/etc, then the structure (for now) still retains most of its strength, and is not of immediate concern.  Longer term, the moisture will eventually cause the core material to delam/rot, and the skins to delam from the core.  Then it needs to be fixed.  This is when you'd see flex by leaning on the pedestal.  Also up in LIS, enough moisture in the core could freeze over the winter enough and expand enough to cause the skin to split/crack.  

Thanks for the insight. i went to look at the boat. I leaned on the pedestal and it felt pretty loose (it shook a bit just by pushing it). My guess is there is an issue there. The floorboards around the mast step were also rotted out. I didn't look underneath, but my guess is that much water for that long would create an issue.

What surprised me was how wet the boat was. Lots of mold, below, wet surfaces everywhere. It seemed like everything was damp. The wooden cubbies in the cabin were completely rotted through and leaking down, and the headliner over the electrical was rotted out. This is my first boat buying experience (outside of club J24s), so maybe this is normal for a boat in the $10,000 range. But it seemed like a lot of potential issues.

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1 minute ago, freewheelin said:

Thanks for the insight. i went to look at the boat. I leaned on the pedestal and it felt pretty loose (it shook a bit just by pushing it). My guess is there is an issue there. The floorboards around the mast step were also rotted out. I didn't look underneath, but my guess is that much water for that long would create an issue.

What surprised me was how wet the boat was. Lots of mold, below, wet surfaces everywhere. It seemed like everything was damp. The wooden cubbies in the cabin were completely rotted through and leaking down, and the headliner over the electrical was rotted out. This is my first boat buying experience (outside of club J24s), so maybe this is normal for a boat in the $10,000 range. But it seemed like a lot of potential issues.

Run away.

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I owned a C&C 35 and raced on a 29/2.   Stinger is spot on.

Personally I'd buy a J30

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4 minutes ago, jsaronson said:

Personally I'd buy a J30

I like the J30s, but my wife wants a comfortable cockpit (AKA backrests). How much does a J/30 in decent shape go for?

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I've seen J30 from 7 to 15k.  Another cored boat, so you need to check them carefully.

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Run from the 29 you are looking at. Too many issues. I like the J-30. Most have rotted transom core and some deck delay. Keep looking for a 29-2. Decently maintained ones don’t have the problems you talked about. Mine surveyeyed with a completely dry deck.  I mold etc. Then again I took care of any issues. You can find a good boat in the neighborhood of 10-15k

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Late model J-30s (84 and later) were modded to make them friendlier as a cruiser.  Cockpit has backrests, galley was changed to a modified L shape.  

All early-mid 80's racer-cruisers have the potential for a wet core...just have to shop around some and find a nice boat in good shape.  Its still a buyers market, so no need to settle on a boat that is not in good shape...The C&C you looked at does not qualify as "in good shape."  Ish is right, run away.

Other boats to consider include the S2 9.1, Olson 911, Frers 30, Goman Express 30, Santana 30/30PC...

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Thanks for the tips. We are disappointed because we liked the 29-2. But there are others out there. We need to run from this one and broaden our search it seems.

I'll check out the other boats. We have a 30 ft limit for winter storage in my yard, so I can't go too big. Any other suggestions for a beercan racer, and weekend/week cruiser in the 10-15K range and 25-30 ft?

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9 minutes ago, freewheelin said:

Thanks for the tips. We are disappointed because we liked the 29-2. But there are others out there. We need to run from this one and broaden our search it seems.

I'll check out the other boats. We have a 30 ft limit for winter storage in my yard, so I can't go too big. Any other suggestions for a beercan racer, and weekend/week cruiser in the 10-15K range and 25-30 ft?

There are a lot of C&C 27's around, some of them are almost as big as the 29-2. When our 35-3 gets to be too big for us, I'd happily downsize to a 27-V.

S2 made some good boats in that size range, too.

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

S2 made some good boats in that size range, too.

Thanks. S2s seem to vary greatly in their ratings. Are there some models that are more lively/fun to sail than others?

 

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Slick has it right, only leaving off the 6.9, which is a 6.7 hull with an updated deck on it to look more like the highly successful 7.9 & 9.1.  Also the S2 27 which is also a G&S design, but is more a "Performance Cruiser" than a racer-cruiser like the other G&S Boats...

I'd also look at the Starwind 27...it was built by Wellcraft, so build quality isn't as good as say an S2, but its a Jim Taylor design that is a wolf in sheep's clothing...

Almost any production MORC boat will be a good boat that is lively to sail, but has decent accommodations and storage.  The aforementioned S2 7.9 and 9.1, Olson 911, S2 9.1, Santana 30/30 all fall into that category.  Also Abbott 27's come to mind and older Ranger 29s as well...

In a more IOR vein, the Beneteau First 30E and 305 are 30 foot production 1/2 ton IOR boats that have J-24 speed, but much nicer accommodations.  They have issues with failing hull/headliners, so look at them with a critical eye.  Fixing that issue is not "technically hard", but is a ton of labor...ask me how I know :)

The C&C 30 mk II is a very nice boat, as is the C&C 27 Mk V.

The J-28 and Tartan 28 are good performers as well, both boats rating about the same as a J-24...

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9 minutes ago, Crash said:

Slick has it right, only leaving off the 6.9, which is a 6.7 hull with an updated deck on it to look more like the highly successful 7.9 & 9.1.  Also the S2 27 which is also a G&S design, but is more a "Performance Cruiser" than a racer-cruiser like the other G&S Boats...

I'd also look at the Starwind 27...it was built by Wellcraft, so build quality isn't as good as say an S2, but its a Jim Taylor design that is a wolf in sheep's clothing...

Almost any production MORC boat will be a good boat that is lively to sail, but has decent accommodations and storage.  The aforementioned S2 7.9 and 9.1, Olson 911, S2 9.1, Santana 30/30 all fall into that category.  Also Abbott 27's come to mind and older Ranger 29s as well...

In a more IOR vein, the Beneteau First 30E and 305 are 30 foot production 1/2 ton IOR boats that have J-24 speed, but much nicer accommodations.  They have issues with failing hull/headliners, so look at them with a critical eye.  Fixing that issue is not "technically hard", but is a ton of labor...ask me how I know :)

The C&C 30 mk II is a very nice boat, as is the C&C 27 Mk V.

The J-28 and Tartan 28 are good performers as well, both boats rating about the same as a J-24...

thanks so much. this is really helpful. I am running searches on yachtworld. There seem to be a bunch of O'days at a decent price that seem to rate similarly - 31, 30, 302. Worth looking into?

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S2 9.1 is ugly as sin, but strangely quick and roomy enough to cruise lightly on. Hold out for one. You'll enjoy it.

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2 hours ago, bodega87 said:

S2 9.1 is ugly as sin, but strangely quick and roomy enough to cruise lightly on. Hold out for one. You'll enjoy it.

I used to think that too.  After 5 years of making me look like a better racer than I am, I now think they are awfully good looking! ;)

 

 

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2 hours ago, freewheelin said:

thanks so much. this is really helpful. I am running searches on yachtworld. There seem to be a bunch of O'days at a decent price that seem to rate similarly - 31, 30, 302. Worth looking into?

O'day 30 is a really heavy boat.  Weighs around 10,000 lbs, where as an S2 9.1 is around 7200 or so.  O'Day 31 is a stretched stern version of the 30.  302 is one of the last O'Days built.  Lighter but only came with a wing keel that draws maybe 3.5 ft or so...so not a performer really.

That said, if you can find a Ranger 30, that's the same hull as the O'Day 30 but with more sail area, and better performance.  Still more in the performance cruiser mold.  It, and the O'Day 30/31 are all "big" 30 footers, compared to say a Frers 30 which is significantly "smaller" on the inside.

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If I remember correctly O'Day was the "budget" brand from the company that owned Cal, Ranger and O'Day, Bangor Punta. That doesn't mean that they are bad boats, just probably built to a lower price point than the other two lines. 

Growing up sailing on a lake in Kansas there were lots of O'Days and I have a friend who currently has a O'Day 31 who loves the boat for lake sailing.  

I always liked the styling of the later O'Days in the 302 and 322 line, but I vaguely remember one having an issue with a keel/grid/skin failure, but don't recall the details. Worth researching and as always, get a good survey. 

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11 hours ago, Crash said:

O'day 30 is a really heavy boat.  Weighs around 10,000 lbs, where as an S2 9.1 is around 7200 or so.  O'Day 31 is a stretched stern version of the 30.  302 is one of the last O'Days built.  Lighter but only came with a wing keel that draws maybe 3.5 ft or so...so not a performer really.

That said, if you can find a Ranger 30, that's the same hull as the O'Day 30 but with more sail area, and better performance.  Still more in the performance cruiser mold.  It, and the O'Day 30/31 are all "big" 30 footers, compared to say a Frers 30 which is significantly "smaller" on the inside.

Thanks, this is helpful. Big/heavy is not important to me. I am more interested in a lively sailor, that can be weekended comfortably than I am a heavy boat with more amenities. I actually like the 302s - sucks they are all wing keel, what a waste. I'd ideally like something solid enough to do some bigger trips in more open waters (block island, etc).

I am seeing a lot of Islanders, specifically 30s and Bahama 30s. I have never heard of these, but they seem to be pretty available. Their name makes them seem like they are probably slow, but their phrfs aren't that bad and they are lighter than some of the other 30fters. Anyone have experience?

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The S2-9.1 is a quick Boat PHRF-Lake Ontario rates it about 134, the express or Gorman 30 is about the same. 

S2 has nonskid that will scrape you to the bone, transom hung rudder, double spreader rig. Both of the above are not cheap. 

You can pick up a mk1 at a very reasonable price and they are around (where you sailing out of Freewheeling?)  there is a 29-2 in great shape in Lake Erie.  We have a member who is buying the early version and he was looking at 5 around Lakes Ontario and Erie   

If you're on FB you can go to the Lake Ontario C&C 29 Association Page, join and there are many owners there than can help find one or answer questions  

Islanders are dated, Oday 30 don’t know much about them, I had a 25, good Boat but thinking that there are some compromises  

C&C 30 another good Boat, cabin a bit smaller than the first 29’’s (what I call the originals -‘77-‘78)  down below.  I love my 29 -‘77 6’ headroom, 10.5’ beam, it does have a small cockpit but the cabin is comfortable. It sails to its rating and great in any wind to sail (drifts well too!!)

 

 

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13 hours ago, irishember said:

The S2-9.1 is a quick Boat PHRF-Lake Ontario rates it about 134, the express or Gorman 30 is about the same. 

S2 has nonskid that will scrape you to the bone, transom hung rudder, double spreader rig. Both of the above are not cheap. 

You can pick up a mk1 at a very reasonable price and they are around (where you sailing out of Freewheeling?)  there is a 29-2 in great shape in Lake Erie.  We have a member who is buying the early version and he was looking at 5 around Lakes Ontario and Erie   

If you're on FB you can go to the Lake Ontario C&C 29 Association Page, join and there are many owners there than can help find one or answer questions  

Islanders are dated, Oday 30 don’t know much about them, I had a 25, good Boat but thinking that there are some compromises  

C&C 30 another good Boat, cabin a bit smaller than the first 29’’s (what I call the originals -‘77-‘78)  down below.  I love my 29 -‘77 6’ headroom, 10.5’ beam, it does have a small cockpit but the cabin is comfortable. It sails to its rating and great in any wind to sail (drifts well too!!)

 

 

Thanks Irish, this is helpful. I am sailing out of the western Long Island Sound. So availability of S2s and C&C 29s isn't as good as in the lakes. Which is too bad. They seem perfect for what we are looking for - a lively racer, that can take us safely and somewhat comfortably a little further afield for some cruising (block island, nantucket, etc.) a few times a year. There seem to be a billion Catalina 30s and a bunch of O'day types, but everything I am finding in the price range (15-20K) seems to be more cruiser-racer, than racer-cruiser. Most days, we beer can race and/or daysail, so a comfortable cockpit and lively sailer is more important to us than a cavernous cabin on a heavy boat.

 

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2 hours ago, freewheelin said:

Thanks Irish, this is helpful. I am sailing out of the western Long Island Sound. So availability of S2s and C&C 29s isn't as good as in the lakes. Which is too bad. They seem perfect for what we are looking for - a lively racer, that can take us safely and somewhat comfortably a little further afield for some cruising (block island, nantucket, etc.) a few times a year. There seem to be a billion Catalina 30s and a bunch of O'day types, but everything I am finding in the price range (15-20K) seems to be more cruiser-racer, than racer-cruiser. Most days, we beer can race and/or daysail, so a comfortable cockpit and lively sailer is more important to us than a cavernous cabin on a heavy boat.

 

Boats on the lakes tend to be in better shape than boats on the coast...as they are both in fresh water, and are stored out of the water 1/2 the year.  After owning 5 boats, I can tell you that it is well worth buying the boat is the best shape you can find...even it if means transporting it, then buying a boat that needs more work...unless you really are into that sort of thing.  I recored a fair amount of the deck of the S2 9.1 I owned, including a total rebuild of the mast partners (a known weak spot).  I lost a year of sailing time, while I worked on it on weekends...I enjoy that sort of thing, so it worked out ok for me.  To pay someone to have done that work would have been close to $10k....

Also, don't be too discouraged by asking prices.  It is a buyers market, not a seller's market.  Many, many used boats of the kind you are looking at are generally overpriced, have been on the market for some time as a result, and can likely be bought for (75-80%) or even less of asking price.  In the case where the owner has already bought another boat (like the Charleston 9.1) the prices are more reasonable, and likely will make a deal more readily...who wants to pay the cost of keeping 2 boats for very long?

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Those are cheap prices for the S2, The three on yachtworld are $23k, $24.5k,$25k. If it looks too good to be true..... 

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