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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Anyone have experience with these boats? There is one around me (WLIS) open - seems to be good shape at a good price. We are looking for a PHRF racer (mostly shorthanded), but also something we can grow into a little distance racing with.

We would do a little cruising as well (weekends or weeks at most), so looking for much more of a racer & daysailer than cruiser. 

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The Mk1 and 2 have been very popular on Lake Ontario for the last 30 years, with the biggest concentration of them in Rochester NY.  They are not the fastest, or the most accommodating when compared to today's European floating condos, but they will do all that you ask and do it relatively well as a true racer/cruiser should.  The Mk2 version is a little less "frightening" downwind in a blow, so if you are shorthanded, this is probably a plus.  My experience sailing in a mixed fleet of both versions is that it is also slightly quicker upwind and better in a chop given its narrower beam and "finer" entry.  As with any old cored boat, look out for the obvious.  

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There are 2 at my YC. Neither of them seem to be able to sail to their handicap. (183) but more then do with number of crew and ability me thinks  

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11 minutes ago, USA 236 said:

The Mk2 version is a little less "frightening" downwind in a blow, so if you are shorthanded, this is probably a plus.  My experience sailing in a mixed fleet of both versions is that it is also slightly quicker upwind and better in a chop given its narrower beam and "finer" entry.  As with any old cored boat, look out for the obvious.  

Thanks for the input. What makes them frightening downwind in a blow? Do they tend to be squirrely downwind?

I couldn't find much on them online, shore of a practical sailor article that had little info on their actual sailing characteristics  

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We owned one for nine years, liked it a lot. They do tend to hobby-horse in a chop, which slows them down. Solid glass hull, balsa cored deck. Pretty comfortable boat for its size but the V-berth is a little tight for a couple. Build quality is good. We liked ours enough that we bought a 35-3 of the same year.

We sold our 29-2 to a guy who raced it a lot and won. It does sail like a big dinghy sometimes.  

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17 hours ago, freewheelin said:

Thanks for the input. What makes them frightening downwind in a blow? Do they tend to be squirrely downwind?

I couldn't find much on them online, shore of a practical sailor article that had little info on their actual sailing characteristics  

The Mk1 versions had a tendency to be a bit rollie pollie sailing dead down with a tendency to broach.  

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17 minutes ago, USA 236 said:

The Mk1 versions had a tendency to be a bit rollie pollie sailing dead down with a tendency to broach.  

Yes, the older 29 was one of the most tender boats to come out of the C&C design shop The 29-1 had a narrow waterline beam and a pinched stern, both of which made the boat a bit squirrely downwind. The 29-2 is a very different boat, but it is also a little tender.

stability.jpg

 

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31 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Yes, the older 29 was one of the most tender boats to come out of the C&C design shop The 29-1 had a narrow waterline beam and a pinched stern, both of which made the boat a bit squirrely downwind. The 29-2 is a very different boat, but it is also a little tender.

stability.jpg

 

thank you, it is really helpful to hear from a former owner. I sail in the protected long island sound, but have a few bucket list races that go further afield. For example, there is an around long island race, which would long slogs of open water on the southern and eastern shore. Provided all is in good shape, and moderate conditions, would that be something in this boats's wheelhouse?

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22 minutes ago, freewheelin said:

thank you, it is really helpful to hear from a former owner. I sail in the protected long island sound, but have a few bucket list races that go further afield. For example, there is an around long island race, which would long slogs of open water on the southern and eastern shore. Provided all is in good shape, and moderate conditions, would that be something in this boats's wheelhouse?

Should be no problem. We sailed ours all over Georgia Strait and the Gulf Islands, and I crewed on one during a particularly windy Swiftsure. If the skipper had taken our advice and hugged one of the shorelines, we would have done much better. As it was, punching into 4-foot seas in 25 knots of wind slowed us down quite a bit, and having to dodge big tonnage didn't help. Never had a concern about the strength of the boats.

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12 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Should be no problem. We sailed ours all over Georgia Strait and the Gulf Islands, and I crewed on one during a particularly windy Swiftsure. If the skipper had taken our advice and hugged one of the shorelines, we would have done much better. As it was, punching into 4-foot seas in 25 knots of wind slowed us down quite a bit, and having to dodge big tonnage didn't help. Never had a concern about the strength of the boats.

awesome to hear. thanks again for the input!

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I’ve had my 29 for 23 or so years and I am sailing out of Genesee Yacht Club, Rochester NY on Lake Ontario where we have 10 29’s and all but 1 or 2 race weekly in a one design fleet. Most of them are 29’s and 29-1’s with 3 29-2’s. 

As a past class president and cheerleader to get the GYC fleet from one to the numbers we have now (and still growing possibly by 3 next season) with 4 more at neighboring clubs.  As mentioned before the epicenter moved from Youngstown/Niagara on the lake ( where the factory was) to Rochester. 

I own a 29-0 and love it, people say it’s tender downwind but if you keep the Boat “under the chute” it sails like a bat out of hell. Any boat can be tender if you don’t sail it right. Heel it over running downwind in a blow while heating it up, no doubt the rudder will loose its grip. But I’ve done the same driving a Farr/Mumm 30.  Upwind I shorten sail earlier than other boats in certain conditions but can point. In light air if set up right it’ll and it’s not your first time sailing the boat you’ll be able to keep moving and as fast or faster than boats with the same speed potential  

when C&C introduced the 29 it was meant to replace the 30 as an updated model, but both sold well

The only thing that the 29/29-1 and the 29-2 share is the name. The difference between the 3 versions is as follows: the original had forward and aft lower shrouds, oven/stove, removable table and diesel was an option in ‘77, mine was the 4th one made at the Rhode Island plant (Carroll Marine) and finished in Oct ‘76. For the model year ‘77. 

In ‘79 the 29-1 was introduced. they switched the rigging to a single lower shroud and a baby stay, updated the cabin, 2 burner stove different ports a teak strip Other than that the hull and deck were pretty much the same loa 29’7.25”, beam 10’3 5/8, draft 5’3”. J dimension is 12.75”. 

The 29-2 is a different boat all together  I don’t have the exact measurements but roughly it’s 28’6” loa, 9.5’ beam  mast is a foot shorter, J dimension also a foot shorter and the boom is 1 longer. It’s closer to a 27-3 than a 29. 

They both rate the same on Lake Ontario. I prefer the earlier or “original” 29, I don’t get my glasses knocked off by the backstay (I do on the mk2), bigger cockpit, bigger cabin area. As far as performance it can go either way depending on the Boat, sails, crew and preparation. People say that the 29/29-1 were better in light air, 29-2 in heavy air but I don’t necessarily agree.  

So there is my comments, I could talk about these boats all day(like you couldn’t tell already by my post!) , I’ve collected much of the history of the class, sailed with the charter members of the fleet, documented how the class started, how they worked with the designers and sailmakers, learned all that I could from getting beat by and sailing with the Chief, Skip Doyle out of the Niagara river (YYC & NOLSC) who is legendary and one with the most wins in our fleets. 

Any questions let me know

John - Celtic Fire  

 

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you can check out the race results at www.genesseyc.org besides the fleet scores for the comparison of the 3 models we score them overall too so you can see how they do against all of the boats (albeit staggered starts and different conditions may be had through the race, so it’s a representation but may not be as accurate as one would like ) 

 

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The boat has beautiful lines, IMHO. Very  sexy. One of the few C&C’s I haven’t gotten a ride on as yet, so nothing if real value to add, other than I’m looking for one for myself. 

Only problem is that most have wheels. Only seen one fillet boat on the market around here and they want too much. 

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Yes, the older 29 was one of the most tender boats to come out of the C&C design shop The 29-1 had a narrow waterline beam and a pinched stern, both of which made the boat a bit squirrely downwind. The 29-2 is a very different boat, but it is also a little tender.

stability.jpg

 

No wonder you say it sails like a big dinghy. 

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10 hours ago, Peanut Butter said:

The boat has beautiful lines, IMHO. Very  sexy. One of the few C&C’s I haven’t gotten a ride on as yet, so nothing if real value to add, other than I’m looking for one for myself. 

Only problem is that most have wheels. Only seen one fillet boat on the market around here and they want too much. 

Ours had a tiller, so no issues trying to fit behind the wheel. It was a great boat for singlehanding, all the controls were right there.

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Irish member if anyone wants a 29-II at Genesse I've got 1985 model for sale. Ready to race with full race inventory including spinnakers. Freshwater only on Lake Erie.

Jude4 (2) (1) (2).jpg

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On 11/23/2017 at 1:16 AM, Peanut Butter said:

The boat has beautiful lines, IMHO. Very  sexy. One of the few C&C’s I haven’t gotten a ride on as yet, so nothing if real value to add, other than I’m looking for one for myself. 

Only problem is that most have wheels. Only seen one fillet boat on the market around here and they want too much. 

I agree, they are good looking boats. The wheel is a big drawback in my opinion. But given what others have said about the characteristics, looks like all in all is a nice package. There is always given and take when looking at older boats. You have to live with what someone else wanted at the time.

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23 hours ago, Callahan said:

Irish member if anyone wants a 29-II at Genesse I've got 1985 model for sale. Ready to race with full race inventory including spinnakers. Freshwater only on Lake Erie.

Jude4 (2) (1) (2).jpg

For sure this one is a PHRF-LE cheater boat......  HA HA

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On 11/22/2017 at 5:23 PM, irishember said:

I’ve had my 29 for 23 or so years and I am sailing out of Genesee Yacht Club, Rochester NY on Lake Ontario where we have 10 29’s and all but 1 or 2 race weekly in a one design fleet. Most of them are 29’s and 29-1’s with 3 29-2’s. 

As a past class president and cheerleader to get the GYC fleet from one to the numbers we have now (and still growing possibly by 3 next season) with 4 more at neighboring clubs.  As mentioned before the epicenter moved from Youngstown/Niagara on the lake ( where the factory was) to Rochester. 

I own a 29-0 and love it, people say it’s tender downwind but if you keep the Boat “under the chute” it sails like a bat out of hell. Any boat can be tender if you don’t sail it right. Heel it over running downwind in a blow while heating it up, no doubt the rudder will loose its grip. But I’ve done the same driving a Farr/Mumm 30.  Upwind I shorten sail earlier than other boats in certain conditions but can point. In light air if set up right it’ll and it’s not your first time sailing the boat you’ll be able to keep moving and as fast or faster than boats with the same speed potential  

when C&C introduced the 29 it was meant to replace the 30 as an updated model, but both sold well

The only thing that the 29/29-1 and the 29-2 share is the name. The difference between the 3 versions is as follows: the original had forward and aft lower shrouds, oven/stove, removable table and diesel was an option in ‘77, mine was the 4th one made at the Rhode Island plant (Carroll Marine) and finished in Oct ‘76. For the model year ‘77. 

In ‘79 the 29-1 was introduced. they switched the rigging to a single lower shroud and a baby stay, updated the cabin, 2 burner stove different ports a teak strip Other than that the hull and deck were pretty much the same loa 29’7.25”, beam 10’3 5/8, draft 5’3”. J dimension is 12.75”. 

The 29-2 is a different boat all together  I don’t have the exact measurements but roughly it’s 28’6” loa, 9.5’ beam  mast is a foot shorter, J dimension also a foot shorter and the boom is 1 longer. It’s closer to a 27-3 than a 29. 

They both rate the same on Lake Ontario. I prefer the earlier or “original” 29, I don’t get my glasses knocked off by the backstay (I do on the mk2), bigger cockpit, bigger cabin area. As far as performance it can go either way depending on the Boat, sails, crew and preparation. People say that the 29/29-1 were better in light air, 29-2 in heavy air but I don’t necessarily agree.  

So there is my comments, I could talk about these boats all day(like you couldn’t tell already by my post!) , I’ve collected much of the history of the class, sailed with the charter members of the fleet, documented how the class started, how they worked with the designers and sailmakers, learned all that I could from getting beat by and sailing with the Chief, Skip Doyle out of the Niagara river (YYC & NOLSC) who is legendary and one with the most wins in our fleets. 

Any questions let me know

John - Celtic Fire  

John knows his stuff.  So take the above as a review of the boat, grounded in fact!

 

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2 hours ago, freewheelin said:

I agree, they are good looking boats. The wheel is a big drawback in my opinion. But given what others have said about the characteristics, looks like all in all is a nice package. There is always given and take when looking at older boats. You have to live with what someone else wanted at the time.

Agreed. Also have to live with available inventory. No point spending your days looking for a virgin unicorn...

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