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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Adam

Bowsprit and Dockage

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I'm working on the purchase of a Hallberg Rassy 41.  The boat is called a "41", but is actually closer to 51 feet when you include the windvane and bowsprit.  For those who have similar appendages that extend the length of your boat, does your marina charge you dockage based on the LOD or LOA?  A 10 difference in length at 18$ a foot is significant, looking forward to your thoughts.

 

thanks!

 

adam

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At our marina you rent a slip and your boat has to fit inside the slip.  In  your case, you would likely be in a 60 foot slip as a 50 foot one would be too short.  You can't have any part of the boat stick out of the slip.  A boat near me had to move because of the wind steering, which isn't even one of the things you mention.  It might very well be that other marinas charge by the boat but not ours.  I am lucky as they have 36 foot slips as I know some marinas would put me in a 40 foot slip.

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1 minute ago, allene222 said:

At our marina you rent a slip and your boat has to fit inside the slip.  In  your case, you would likely be in a 60 foot slip as a 50 foot one would be too short.  You can't have any part of the boat stick out of the slip.  A boat near me had to move because of the wind steering, which isn't even one of the things you mention.  It might very well be that other marinas charge by the boat but not ours.  I am lucky as they have 36 foot slips as I know some marinas would put me in a 40 foot slip.

He does mention the wind steering when he mentions the "windvane".

Our marina has similar rules, although I have bashed my head on overhanging bowsprits in the dark...

We are charged by the square foot.

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I actually think that our marina enforces by complaint.  I moved a boat back that had its anchor in the walkway.  I think the slip was big enough but the boat owner didn't tie up to keep his damn anchor out of the way.  I complained about the boat next to mine and they moved them into a larger slip.  Apparently they had been in a similar sized slip for 5 years without complaint.  I just didn't want to run into all that wind steering stainless.

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Marinas here in WA vary, though most charge for total length of any fixed part of the boat. I have seen a few that allow for sprits and pulpits to overhang, but generally not any part of the bow or stern.  Shilshole here in Seattle is particularly strict and regularly runs the docks looking for any overhanging item . Paddle boards stored in the front sail bags etc. They will tag you then fine you then move you to a larger slip and charge you more. I know a J-boat that got charged after breaking the sprit and unable to retract. They were days away from moving to a 40' slip. and finally got it cut off and corrected. No mercy from the port, had to pay the fine and got a good talking to.

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That's why my sprit is completely demountable at the dock. No reason to pay $225 every month for a carbon tube!

 

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Generally marinas charge for L O A - Length Over All,  as in:  The total length of the boat from one end to the other,  sparred or not.

Not the waterline, Length on deck or anything else.  Boom overhangs,  boomkins, sprits, dinghy davits - just as much as can be objectively measured.  

Welcome to boating.   Nobody ever said "I need to save money,   I know,  I'll buy a yacht."

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My marina charges for every inch - you don't want to have a fender off your transom or it will cost you $9 per month.

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I'm in a Tayana 37.  37' length on deck, 43' LOA (including the sprit ).  We pay slip fees for ever inch...

Yep, sorry sucker.  They charge us by the foot that we occupy, not the foot that we claim on deck.

If you got a wind vane, be sure you'll pay a bit more for that shit hanging off your ass end......

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In my marina it's LOD but no more than 2' overhang allowed in the 30' slips. I think that most marinas have similar rules regarding max overhang in order to keep the fairways open - if you hang into the fairway too much then they move you to a larger slip.

Is the $18 monthly? If it is it might be either different boat or mooring time for you

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32 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

Generally marinas charge for L O A - Length Over All,  as in:  The total length of the boat from one end to the other,  sparred or not.

Not the waterline, Length on deck or anything else.  Boom overhangs,  boomkins, sprits, dinghy davits - just as much as can be objectively measured.  

Welcome to boating.   Nobody ever said "I need to save money,   I know,  I'll buy a yacht."

well I am the odd one

but we lived at anchor to save on paying lot rent for the trailer

first on a 24ft sb then traded on a 47 ft f/g houseboat

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4 hours ago, Locus said:

Marinas here in WA vary, though most charge for total length of any fixed part of the boat. I have seen a few that allow for sprits and pulpits to overhang, but generally not any part of the bow or stern.  Shilshole here in Seattle is particularly strict and regularly runs the docks looking for any overhanging item . Paddle boards stored in the front sail bags etc. They will tag you then fine you then move you to a larger slip and charge you more. I know a J-boat that got charged after breaking the sprit and unable to retract. They were days away from moving to a 40' slip. and finally got it cut off and corrected. No mercy from the port, had to pay the fine and got a good talking to.

+1 here. i was 4" to long for a 30' slip at shilshole, they wanted me to get a 34' slip.  took off the anchor roller and remeasured and all is good.  they can be so picky about length, but, isnt there a rule that every boat there has to be able to leave the slip, motor around the breakwater, and return???  lot of Zombies around there, just saying..

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Their business has nothing to do with yachts or boats.  It's simply revenue collection. You need to adjust to that (increased fees) or move (if you can).

 

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Marinas have two commodities:  Linear length of dock space and square feet of water surface area.* 

If you ran a marina, how would you go about charging for a boat that takes up 51' feet of dock length to park itself?  

 

*(And the soda machines, of course)

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21 hours ago, Kirklandboat said:

they can be so picky about length, but, isnt there a rule that every boat there has to be able to leave the slip, motor around the breakwater, and return??? 

No. There's a lot of boats that live there that don't have a motor. They're at the north end.

Where do these idiotic rumors come from?

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"I understand that the vessel to be moored at Shilshole Bay Marina must be navigable in open water under its own power as per Moorage Tariff item 1300-A-17: “Boats moored in a Port harbor must, at all times, be completely seaworthy and ready for immediate cruising in local waters.”"

 

That is the actual policy for Shilshole Bay Marina. 

There are a lot of zombies that don't seem to meet that.  An engine isn't required though.

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There is the fee charged for the slip, and the enforcement of fitting into the slip. Our YC doesn’t get as fussy about overhanging the walkway in a strong tide/wind as it does hanging into the fairway. We rent the slip, and your boat(s) are supposed to fit, including tenders. 

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On 11/23/2017 at 3:51 PM, Jammer Six said:

No. There's a lot of boats that live there that don't have a motor. They're at the north end.

Where do these idiotic rumors come from?

Ummmm.... the Main dude in the office when I first signed my moorage agreement. That's what he told me and its on the moorage agreement.

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3 hours ago, Kirklandboat said:

Ummmm.... the Main dude in the office when I first signed my moorage agreement. That's what he told me and its on the moorage agreement.

lol

Explain how the boats at the north end that have no motors get it done.

Show me.

https://www.portseattle.org/Marinas/Shilshole-Bay-Marina/Documents/MonthlyMoorageApp_FORM.pdf

https://www.portseattle.org/Marinas/Shilshole-Bay-Marina/Documents/Liveaboard Agreement Final 2012-06-26.pdf

https://www.portseattle.org/Marinas/Shilshole-Bay-Marina/Documents/MonthlyMoorageApp_FORM.pdf

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"navigable in open water under it's own power" doesn't mean that it needs to have a motor, oars are also legal.  I've rowed one the engineless keel boats from near Bainbridge back to the marina before. Sailing is more fun, but rowing works and gets you around inside the marina.

I quoted the full actual text of the rule a few posts up.

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I think the real answer for the OP is that it depends, you have to talk to the specific marina and see how they charge.

At least one of the local marinas here charges by vessel LOA for slips up to 30', but for bigger boats they charge either for boat length or slip length, whichever is greater. So if you want to put your Cal 25 in a 45 foot slip you'll pay for 45'. Which makes sense, from the marina's perspective. 

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On 11/24/2017 at 7:15 PM, SloopJonB said:

Kirk - look who you're talking to.

J-6 maintains his perfect record of not being right about anything.  I'm starting to think he's auditioning for a job as a Russian troll.  Building his resume.

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Well, in this case he wasn't wrong.  It must be the first time.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Alex W said:

Well, in this case he wasn't wrong.  It must be the first time.

 

 

I've got him on ignore and I still know he was wrong.

He is genetically predisposed to it.

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4 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

He must be a Trump supporter.

Seriously? No matter what the topic, it always ends up being political...

edit: (not proud to live in a sanctuary city, because my family came to this country the LEGAL way)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, thereefgeek said:

]edit: (not proud to live in a sanctuary city, because my family came to this country the LEGAL way)

That always cracks me up.

If a hundred thousand Mexicans invaded San Diego, held that town by force of arms, established an "immigration office", and declared that everyone who came after them through that office was "legal", it would have just as much "legitimacy" as Ellis Island.

Have a seat. Your family were illegal immigrants.

P.S. Study Spanish. If you don't, the invader will take your children and force them to learn their language.

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2 hours ago, thereefgeek said:

Seriously? No matter what the topic, it always ends up being political...

edit: (not proud to live in a sanctuary city, because my family came to this country the LEGAL way)

He was just proving my point.

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Santa Cruz Harbor charges by the length of the boat (every inch) or the size of the slip, whichever is greater, and they round up. I have to pay for 32 feet for my Un-30 (Wilderness 30 prototype) because they measure from the bow pulpit to the prop on the outboard in the stored position. I asked for a remeasure because I thought it was closer to 31 feet, but no. Once over 31 feet the next increment is 32.

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6 hours ago, msvphoto said:

Santa Cruz Harbor charges by the length of the boat (every inch) or the size of the slip, whichever is greater, and they round up. I have to pay for 32 feet for my Un-30 (Wilderness 30 prototype) because they measure from the bow pulpit to the prop on the outboard in the stored position. I asked for a remeasure because I thought it was closer to 31 feet, but no. Once over 31 feet the next increment is 32.

Good one!

We are 32'9" but actually about 3' shorter than the Catalina 30 next to us due to pulpits & dinghies on davits. Pay the same amount because the marina charges by the LOD (length of dock, in this case.) which is a 30' slip. Hard for the marina to charge us more when we take up less space.

They also poke out into the fairway a good deal more than we do which also provides some protection against errant boaters.

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Anacortes (Cap Sante) is quite strict about this for monthly moorage - extreme over all length and nothing can overhang the slip. It's a safety issue they say. Curiously, they are quite happy to have me rent one of the 46' slips by the day for as long as I want to pay it, but will not rent me the same slip by the month. According to them, my 45' boat is 47'3". 

Most daily slips the harbormaster will take my word for it that it is a 45' boat. Some actually measure even for one night. Only one place I stayed was I given a break. Coming back from Georgian bay late in the season, the (lady) wharfinger at Tobermory said she'd charge me only for 40' - "cold weather shrinkage" she called it. 

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Gollygosh I'm sure glad I don't dock on the West Coast. Three marinas in New England have billed me for 50ft but if you put the anchor on the roller it becomes 51ft. So far no one has been that picky.

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