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PJF

J24 sump...epoxy or polyester resin filler?

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Getting ready to cut the last of the filler out of an 81 J24 sump around the aft keel bolts...when I re-fill, and going by the class website guide, do I use polyester or can I use west epoxy?   thoughts on difference?  epoxy bonds better but is more brittle.   I have milled fibers to mix.   ideas?  

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Here  This gallery includes a good example of the repair you're talking about on a 1986 hull, which has two deep sections of keel sump forward, and one section full of vermiculite aft under the lifting strap.

This is the correct, strong, J24 Class accepted method of filling the sump, for boats where one or more bays of the sump are filled up to the level to support the keel bolts torqued down.  What you're looking at is a well cleaned, well abraded, ground surface (either 36 or 45 grit disk if I recall correctly).  Prep a stack of cloth and high density foam (penske board, similar) plates to dry fit, first.  Use epoxy neat to saturate the surfaces once clean and prepared to bond, then follow with epoxy thickened with structural filler.  A g10 plate at the top, incorporated with a  couple of sheathes of glass tied into the hull liner to both sides of the keel to cap it off nicely.  Remember to create at least one or more drain holes into the deepest part of the bilge.

Do not pour straight resin, regardless of the resin.  Do not pour thickened epoxy or polyester without laying cloth and foam.  You'll have made a very solid mess of things.

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The photos are locked but I have seen similar pictures.  Is there sufficient structure to prevent compression and movement in the keel when the keel bolts are torqued down?   The J Class site shows a full pour, while others show your suggested method of high density foam and compression sleeves around the bolts.   And i have no idea where to get 5/8" bolt compression sleeves.   

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On 12/1/2017 at 3:53 PM, PJF said:

The photos are locked but I have seen similar pictures.  Is there sufficient structure to prevent compression and movement in the keel when the keel bolts are torqued down?   The J Class site shows a full pour, while others show your suggested method of high density foam and compression sleeves around the bolts.   And i have no idea where to get 5/8" bolt compression sleeves.   

A compression sleeve would be a tube of G10 that is slid over the bolt if I'm not mistaken.  You could find that at McMaster Carr

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No compression sleeves.  Layers of glass cloth sandwiching high density foam, capped with a topping plate of G10.  There's no one in the class measurement community that would currently recommend a straight pour of resin of any kind, it just doesn't provide any structural integrity.

First make the stack to fit

15661957925_a390a19eb5_z.jpg.3e7f98ce4d00ba3dfe4d370fb4cb4ebe.jpg

Dry Fit

15041812133_bf0ee98154_z.jpg.b0b116b3c7e8e416f8ac7c489d2a8dd6.jpg

Tie g10 plate/top of fill into surrounding hull with a layer or two of glass cloth.  Allow to cure several days before final torque values.

15041805813_a3a2f49a82_z.jpg.4a053985ed00938c4b3022f69b99a65f.jpg

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ok, your photos are great, but the plates of foam and glass are horizontal vice vertical.   Damn, I am confused.   Yours makes sense because it is like laying bricks, but I have see other photos where they put in "vertical sheets" with pour in between.   Good excuse to start drinking over the winter and just go for the consensus this spring the it is warm enough to epoxy.   This is a "spare J24" that will be used to allow newbies into the class to try it out.   But still want to be class legal.   

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Yeah I think the problem is the word "pouring."

"pouring" is like 1987 and polyester is the thing, and it's not actually a good way to do this.

Laminating a new stack of foam interlaced with glass cloth, and epoxy with structural filler, layer by layer, is going to yield a significantly better result.  That's why the layers are horizontal.

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Getting ready to do verm job with the Waterline kit.

The kit doesn’t come with resin.

Looking at ordering some but there’s a lot to choose from out there.

Someone please advise, it sounds like epoxy resin be the preferred type of resin for this project? 

Any suggestions for type, brand, source appreciated.

Originally, I expected to be “pouring” large amounts of resin to fill the sump. After reading above posts and waterline instructions I realize it will be more brick laying in a resin putty. Using the method referenced above with Penske foam, same as Waterlines instructions, what might be a reasonable estimate of how much resin to order?

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Waterline got back to me. 

The original quote was for just aft section of sump.

Once I let them know It’s the entire sump they had to Redo the quote.

The price for the kit for the entire sump is $1434.00

the additional cost is for more Penske foam and additional section of flooring

Seems a little weird.  Oh well need the kit.

Pulled the trigger today. 

Will share on how it goes.

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Jeez!  I Wish I had seen this earlier, in case my experience would be helpful in terms of cost.   I'm all for a quality repair, but it seems like overkill to me.  I filled mine with polyester and chopped fiber in 1996.  I did it in a few pours so that it wouldn't overheat while curing.  It's still absolutely fine today.  Cost something like $30 in materials.

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Sump 22 years after filling...  I don't see any problems.  Each bolt is holding about 200# of ballast.

Keel sump.jpg

Edited by Vpharris
additional information

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