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Ridiculously Overpriced Boats

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4 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

Don's a great guy (when I knew him long ago) and the boat has been a "learning boat" since the mid 70s.  I can't recall her ever being particularly competitive but she is a grand old dame nonetheless!

 

Don's an absolute legend! I hear he's still kicking around KYC but sails alot less these days due to his age.

Thanks for the history - its a cool story of an iconic boat 

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I sailed with John Odenbach Sr. With and against John, Fritzy and Gardy. Have never sailed with a finer family. Great corinthians. Of course Lou kept them all in line.

Lioness, i think we travelled the same road. Remember George Sibley?

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On 12/8/2017 at 8:59 PM, slap said:

Only off by a factor of 2 or 3.

Somewhere in there. Ran across an Irwin 42 of similar vintage for sale by the original owner yesterday. Looks nice. Half the price of that one.

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On 11/28/2017 at 4:48 PM, 12 metre said:

True, but my comments were with regard to the C&C 43 in question

The  boat you are referring to would be the Redline 41 "Red Jacket" which won 1967 SORC and is allegedly the first cored boat built.  She was designed by C&C, but predates C&C Yachts.

Red Jacket may be able to sell for a premium because of her historical significance, but the same could not be said for other Redline 41s.  There is a very nice one advertised in West Van right with an asking price of about $80k

Some IOR boats that IMO might sell for a substantial premium because of their historical significance (provided they are in excellent condition) include: Ganbare, Magic Bus, and Imp.

I might even include Terrorist in that group because of her revolutionary design -which was quickly banned.  Okay, not banned, but heavily penalized.  She was laying falling apart in a yard in Port Townsend a few years ago until someone in Texas bought her and did a wonderful restoration job on her.  I think they even kept her infamous bilge boards.

terr7 best.JPG

Terrorist.jpg

Terrorist_Aug 14_2.jpg

Aug 13_2.jpg

Why the fuck anyone would waste money on an ugly POS like that is beyond me. Recently our council spent a kings ransom restoring a substation built in 1956 because it was a 'historically significant building'. The Architect (my father) said no it wasn't  - it was a industrial brick box built to house electrical equipment. He suggested they bulldoze it and built an attractive building. That boat is ugly as fuck, would be a shit of a thing to steer and the deck layout is just plain awful. Still its his money and he can piss it up against any wall he wishes. Pity he didn't at least get someone with half a clue to choose the paintwork and the sign writing. 

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On 11/28/2017 at 10:49 PM, Steam Flyer said:

That is awesome. Looks like a beautiful restoration along with suitable updates/upgrades thrown in.

Any chance you could get me an ounce of what you are smoking?

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LB - you realize that Terrorist was designed by Bruce King don't you?

Calling one of his boats ugly is hubris of the first magnitude.

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I could understand the cockpit layout if it had a traveler, I can’t stand split cockpits...but I can appreciate the tumblehome...

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

LB - you realize that Terrorist was designed by Bruce King don't you?

Calling one of his boats ugly is hubris of the first magnitude.

Even Charlize Theron takes an occasional dump

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11 hours ago, LB 15 said:

That boat is ugly as fuck, would be a shit of a thing to steer and the deck layout is just plain awful. Still its his money and he can piss it up against any wall he wishes. Pity he didn't at least get someone with half a clue to choose the paintwork and the sign writing. 

The paint scheme and lettering is matched how it was originally painted in the 70's, it is a restoration after all. Might not be fashionable today, but i think it looks great.

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2 hours ago, Looper said:

This.

Don't see it. Given that laser have a monopoly product and captive customer base their prices don't seem ridiculous to me... High, arguably, but not ridiculously so.

 Anyway, your post misses the point of the class. You are not paying for the boat. 

Cheers, 

               W.

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5 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

I could understand the cockpit layout if it had a traveler, I can’t stand split cockpits...but I can appreciate the tumblehome...

As I posted earlier, I believe it does have a traveller - their looks to be a mounting surface for a curved track on the front face of the partition maybe 8" below the top of the coaming.  I  can't imagine any top level 1T not having one.

Topsides_stern.jpg.4d6a8af6ca0d6d474d777f75650b71c8.jpg

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14 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Why the fuck anyone would waste money on an ugly POS like that is beyond me. Recently our council spent a kings ransom restoring a substation built in 1956 because it was a 'historically significant building'. The Architect (my father) said no it wasn't  - it was a industrial brick box built to house electrical equipment. He suggested they bulldoze it and built an attractive building. That boat is ugly as fuck, would be a shit of a thing to steer and the deck layout is just plain awful. Still its his money and he can piss it up against any wall he wishes. Pity he didn't at least get someone with half a clue to choose the paintwork and the sign writing. 

As one of your famous compatriots once said "the fastest boat is the most beautiful".

That Terrorist was acknowledged as the fastest boat at the '74 OTC (only a dismasting prevented her from winning) gives lie to the statement that she is an "ugly POS"

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I can understand why someone would spend a fortune restoring a truly beautiful classic like Dorade or Stormy weather - even a swan from that era. Those boats are timeless. Put one of them next to that fugly Pos and see what I mean. That boat represents the worst of the terrible design features of that era - cheese cutter stern, transom hung rudder, 45 degree stem rake and a truly awful deck layout. It's like restoring an Leyland P76 (australias equivalent to the Edsel). Still it's his coin so his to spend on what ever he wants.  Fast? It's all relative of course but didn't someone say it was banned?  And it would have won some series if it hadn't dropped its rig? Well if my Aunt had Balls she would be my uncle. 

BTW it Looks a lot like Ceil III and Rampage - Bob millers Hobart winners (from 73 and 75 IIRC) they are still butt ugly as well. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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28 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Sorry to say it LB but your taste is all in your mouth.

Each to their own mate. Regardless of what I think I am sure the boat brings the owner great pleasure and that after all, are what boats are for. 

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4 hours ago, 12 metre said:

As I posted earlier, I believe it does have a traveller - their looks to be a mounting surface for a curved track on the front face of the partition maybe 8" below the top of the coaming.  I  can't imagine any top level 1T not having one.

Topsides_stern.jpg.4d6a8af6ca0d6d474d777f75650b71c8.jpg

I’ll say you’re both right and wrong. Take a look at the photo of Terrorist in the photo of her sailing. There’s a track visible that isn’t shown in the photo at the dock. Not recessed though, but up top. I’m guessing that dock photo was part way through the restoration, with a temporary padeye. 

Edit: I’m dumb. Just realized the boat’s still white when it has a visible traveler. Maybe the new owner is big on Vang sheeting. 

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18 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I’ll say you’re both right and wrong. Take a look at the photo of Terrorist in the photo of her sailing. There’s a track visible that isn’t shown in the photo at the dock. Not recessed though, but up top. I’m guessing that dock photo was part way through the restoration, with a temporary padeye. 

Edit: I’m dumb. Just realized the boat’s still white when it has a visible traveler. Maybe the new owner is big on Vang sheeting. 

Looks like it has a traveler in this pick.

5a1d0b3c46e6a_Terrorist_Aug14_2.jpg.7dcf7115ef64ec356e709bf3cc4784fe (2).jpg

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2 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Looks like it has a traveler in this pick.

5a1d0b3c46e6a_Terrorist_Aug14_2.jpg.7dcf7115ef64ec356e709bf3cc4784fe (2).jpg

Yes, if you zoom in enough you can see the track bolts and kind of make out a car. The main trimmers back leg is angled forward a bit, resting on the angled structure I though might house the traveller (although it would have been a very awkward spot for one)

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29 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Looks like it has a traveler in this pick.

5a1d0b3c46e6a_Terrorist_Aug14_2.jpg.7dcf7115ef64ec356e709bf3cc4784fe (2).jpg

Thanks for posting that. I tried to do the same, but my phone wasn’t in the mood. 

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I’m hoping there is a traveller now, but the pic at the dock looks like a pad eye using the cockpit bulkhead as a Barney post. 

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Actually looks like the traveller was removed and the aft winches moved back closer to the cockpit bulkhead if you look closely at the racing and berthed images. The paint job might be different too

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That little fitting on top of the cockpit divider must be a temp thing, I can't imagine sheeting to it in anything over 5 knots. 

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I have to side with Life Boat on this one: Terrorist is and was an ugly boat. The fact that it was semi-functional is not enough to make it pretty.

Al Cassel built it (for himself) in his Sparcraft mfg facility in Costa Mesa.

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2 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

I have to side with Life Boat on this one: Terrorist is and was an ugly boat. The fact that it was semi-functional is not enough to make it pretty.

Sounds like a candidate for Admiration.

If there really is a traveler.

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Would be nice to sell my Tanzer 22 for more than it is worth, as in over priced. But they can be had for $2,000.00 most days. Some for less.

But I have about $4,000.00 of new sails. Better to keep it and sail in the odd regatta. Maybe the Swiftsure inshore race.

My regular boat is a Viking 33. One guy I heard of, spent around $70,000.00 on his. Figured it was better than any new boat he could find.

Unkle Crusty

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On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 1:04 PM, Somebody Else said:

I have to side with Life Boat on this one: Terrorist is and was an ugly boat.

Have to (mildly) disagree.  Fast is beautiful.  And in its day, Terrorist was unquestionably fast.  So much so that they changed the rule in order to not make all the other designs obsolete.

Also a blast to sail.

Classic proportions and graceful lines?  No.  But Terrorist is beautiful in the same sense that a navy destroyer or a stealth fighter are beautiful.  Not sleek, not elegant, but designed to deliver an outcome as ruthlessly and efficiently as possible.

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3 hours ago, Unkle Crusty said:

Would be nice to sell my Tanzer 22 for more than it is worth, as in over priced. But they can be had for $2,000.00 most days. Some for less.

But I have about $4,000.00 of new sails. Better to keep it and sail in the odd regatta. Maybe the Swiftsure inshore race.

...didn't realize the Inshore Swifsure was held on a very small lake.  :mellow:

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On 12/14/2017 at 3:45 PM, LB 15 said:

I can understand why someone would spend a fortune restoring a truly beautiful classic like Dorade or Stormy weather - even a swan from that era. Those boats are timeless. Put one of them next to that fugly Pos and see what I mean. That boat represents the worst of the terrible design features of that era - cheese cutter stern, transom hung rudder, 45 degree stem rake and a truly awful deck layout. It's like restoring an Leyland P76 (australias equivalent to the Edsel). Still it's his coin so his to spend on what ever he wants.  Fast? It's all relative of course but didn't someone say it was banned?  And it would have won some series if it hadn't dropped its rig? Well if my Aunt had Balls she would be my uncle. 

BTW it Looks a lot like Ceil III and Rampage - Bob millers Hobart winners (from 73 and 75 IIRC) they are still butt ugly as well. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

I’m doing the wooden composite racer restoration myself right now. I’d like to race against Dorade and Stormy Weather to Bermuda. I understand your thinking...except The Auntie/Uncle thing. But I’ll think about it for a while and see if I can imagine Aunt Marge yelling about her balls dipping the bowl!

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11 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

...didn't realize the Inshore Swifsure was held on a very small lake.  :mellow:

The whole Salish Sea is just a big salt water lake with tides. ;)

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14 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

...didn't realize the Inshore Swifsure was held on a very small lake.  :mellow:

Which part of my message made you think it was on a very small lake?

Unkle Krusty

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On 12/9/2017 at 10:34 PM, Nirie said:

I sailed with John Odenbach Sr. With and against John, Fritzy and Gardy. Have never sailed with a finer family. Great corinthians. Of course Lou kept them all in line.

Lioness, i think we travelled the same road. Remember George Sibley?

“What cannon” George ? And the “boys from Cirrus” as well as Sill’s, Dodges, Stuart’s  et al.  

I tended bar at SBYC ‘75 & ‘76. Raced laser, Rboat #3 Vitesse with Drew Frech, and family’s Columbias. 

Lived at 22 Ontario Blvd in Hilton next to Odenbach compound in ‘60-64 (born ‘56) but remember Rampages from Labor Day races to SBYC and LyRA 

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8 hours ago, Unkle Crusty said:

Which part of my message made you think it was on a very small lake?

Unkle Krusty

...there part where you said it's a Tanzer 22.  :mellow:

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On 12/17/2017 at 2:05 PM, sledracr said:

Have to (mildly) disagree.  Fast is beautiful.  And in its day, Terrorist was unquestionably fast.  So much so that they changed the rule in order to not make all the other designs obsolete.

Also a blast to sail.

Classic proportions and graceful lines?  No.  But Terrorist is beautiful in the same sense that a navy destroyer or a stealth fighter are beautiful.  Not sleek, not elegant, but designed to deliver an outcome as ruthlessly and efficiently as possible.

Like saying a fat chick has a nice personality. Still, even fat chicks can find someone who desperately needs a ride. So if you like a bit of Tumblehome and ugly graphics here you go lads - knock yourself out.

 

 

 

 

bbw-model.jpg

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On 2017-11-28 at 12:26 PM, F'g Dinosaur said:

I remember Paul Phelan's  famous verbiage about the 1978 Canada's Cup building spree. Don Green's ideas for a breakthrough stripped out cupper  versus his attitude to build a fast yacht but a proper yacht .... "none of this high'tech throwaway vulgarity " . Different strokes for different folks. I believe Mia still sails whilst Evergreen was chainsawed.

I don't know about the ultimate fate of those two boats. Mia was sold to a Greek purchaser in 1978 and is not listed as active in the hull manufacturer's website. Evergreen was sold in 1981 and what happened next seems to be a mystery.

We do know that Evergreen convincingly and repeatedly beat Mia in the selection trials for the  '78 Canada's Cup. And of course Evergreen subsequently went on to triumph in the latter. But certain Mia is much more my idea of a 'proper' yacht.

Here's what Doug Hunter had to say in Against the Odds:

Quote

The campaigns of Mia VI and Evergreen are steeped in contrasts. Paul Phelan strove to build the proper yacht; Don Green revelled in the radicalism of carte blanche. Green's drive for the Canada's Cup was first and foremost a personal quest, albeit one which he was more than happy to allow his club to share in. It would be safe to say that the 1978 Canada's Cup had not been a goal of Paul Phelan until he realized that no one else from the RCYC was stepping forward to assume the weighty task of challenging for the prize. Phelan held great empathy for pride, honour and tradition. It was inconceivable to him for his club to let a Canada's Cup match slip by without fielding a contender. In shouldering this self-imposed burden, Phelan left himself exposed to the worst sort of disaster: the notion that he had let down over 130 years of greatness, hope and expectation.    

Evergreen_cover+-+Copy.jpg

On 2017-11-24 at 3:24 PM, Ozzy said:

The link no longer works. Is that the same boat that was recently donated to Broad Reach?

d0565ec3-b37e-46f5-a849-6a0e96915ef7.jpg

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On 11/28/2017 at 2:44 PM, 12 metre said:

May have been interesting to have sailed it in 8 mR.  Remember that Valiant was a development of Intrepid and we know how well Valiant sailed.

In the few photos I've seen of Iroquois, she looks like a bit of a cross between Intrepid and Valiant.    Iroquois appears to have a long bow overhang and short stern overhang with a relatively steep counter angle - more in keeping with Valiant than Intrepid to my eye.

A lot of the metre boat designers went down the wrong path after Intrepid up until Courageous (and restored Intrepid) in 1974.

In the 6 mR fleet, it seems the concensus that boats built between 1967 and the mid 70's (Toogooloowoo V for example) were not has fast as their long keel predecessors.

Nice looking boat

Iroquois.jpg

 

 

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4 hours ago, Svanen said:

The link no longer works. Is that the same boat that was recently donated to Broad Reach?

d0565ec3-b37e-46f5-a849-6a0e96915ef7.jpg

The boat in the ad was Jilasi. Was Jilasi donated to Broad Reach?

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6 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

Nice looking boat

Iroquois.jpg

 

 

That's a lovely boat, looks like a blast....... but I can't thinking that it'd be faster if they'd get their old asses up on the rail, design be damned

FB- Doug

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