V. Green

Someone tried to kill me tonight

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2 minutes ago, the_abandoned_brane said:

You really need to find out what happened in cities across the us over the last 5 years. You're ignorance is not my problem. 

They don't want to be treated like white people, they want special privileges. They want to not be held accountable for their actions. And they're getting it.

First of all, you are full of shit.  Secondly, you have enough of your own problems to deal with, stop trying to avoid introspection.  What will it hurt to take a deep look inside yourself?  You already know you are an asshole, accept the responsibility for your actions, try to do better and stop worrying what others are doing.  You have fucked up the lives of those close to you more than any black stranger with or without a gun ever has.  You have 2 choices. You can try to understand your behavior and strive to do better, or you can continue to live in denial and blame your situation on everybody but yourself.  It isn't easy to accept that you are an asshole but until you realize that, you will never be on the road to being a less imperfect person.  Look at it this way. Your life can't get much worse, but with a little work, it can become significantly better.  Get better or get bitter, the beauty of life is you can make that choice.  You have apparently chosen to get bitter but it's never to late to reverse your course.

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11 minutes ago, the_abandoned_brane said:

You really need to find out what happened in cities across the us over the last 5 years. You're ignorance is not my problem. 

They don't want to be treated like white people, they want special privileges. They want to not be held accountable for their actions. And they're getting it.

You're ignorance is not my problem either. Looser.

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29 minutes ago, the_abandoned_brane said:

That's happened all across the US to a lesser extent. Obama DOJ tied the hands of cops, now criminals no longer fear them nor the justice system. We're devolving into a 3rd world country.

http://fox59.com/2017/10/30/video-group-of-teens-rob-two-cvs-stores-in-cleveland-more-than-50-times/

Oh yeah, big news, FOX blames Obama for something bad.... WAAH! oh wait he's not President any more, everything's all better now. Even beer is better!

-DSK

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Jebus Vern, you calmly dealt with a person that might have tried to kill you, no problem, and you can't deal with the inevitable thread drift here?  This is Political Anarchy, after all.

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Just now, the_abandoned_brane said:

nEYvIilm.gif

Wow, posting an old worn out meme, featuring an old, worn out buzz word.  I guess you showed him!

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The guy deals with jerks in real life on an almost daily basis, it's no wonder he wants to avoid them on the internet.

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58 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

The guy deals with jerks in real life on an almost daily basis, it's no wonder he wants to avoid them on the internet.

A few bad apples ruin it for everyone. 

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On 11/25/2017 at 1:31 AM, Greever said:

The criminal is going to fight a uniformed police officer over a cellphone or an insulin pump? Hell, maybe he had a soft furry unicorn in his back pocket and just wanted to give it to the nice police officer...

In my opinion people who attempt to kill police officers have no place in our society.

Philly's got a point  - you do too, if we are talking about someone who's rational, and in control of their faculties.  Cops don't have the luxury of making that determination BEFORE deciding how to respond, and have to consider a wide range of possibilities in a split second - and it's precisely this reason that even though I hate cops deplyed as armed revenue generation agents?  I will almost always give them the benefit of the doubt. 

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3 hours ago, soak_ed said:

Capital punishment is not the answer.  Rather ironic that many think the best way to stop killing is to kill people.  Doesn't seem to be terribly effective either.  It seems the so called Christians, or the followers of Christ prefer the Old Testament when it comes to punishing wrong doing, the old eye for an eye shit.  As a matter of fact, most Christians seem to me to believe more in the Old Testament hard line attitudes on homosexuality, adultery, punishment, etc.  They chose to ignore the teachings of the namesake of their cult, non violence, forgiveness, turn the other cheek, etc.  They should call themselves Abrahamists or something, not Christians.  Bunch of fucking hypocrites.

By the way, as much as I appreciate good LEOs like Vernon, I don't think any group should be singled out for special treatment in the eyes of the law.  I disagree entirely with the idea that killing a LEO is any worse than killing any other human being.  They know the risk when they sign up for the job. 

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/10/03/palm-springs-police-ambush-timeline-terrible-day/674586001/

 

Now, what good will it do keeping this asshat in jail for 60 years, like Charles Manson?  If he gets let out, do you want him living near your daughter and her family?  Life Without Parole doesn’t exist in California!  This shitbag should have still been behind bars when this occurred!  What do you want to do with those who should never be in public again?  

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3 hours ago, V. Green said:

Well this is spiraled out of control, see you guys later.

 

7 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

And "looser" joins the SA lexicon. Thanks AB. Looser.

If you have any sense left you might want to pay attention to Ed.

 or possibly V Green.:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, silent bob said:

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/10/03/palm-springs-police-ambush-timeline-terrible-day/674586001/

 

Now, what good will it do keeping this asshat in jail for 60 years, like Charles Manson?  If he gets let out, do you want him living near your daughter and her family?  Life Without Parole doesn’t exist in California!  This shitbag should have still been behind bars when this occurred!  What do you want to do with those who should never be in public again?  

They need to be in jail as long  as they are sentenced for.  They arrive at these sentences based on a number of factors.  I presume they know something about it, they've been doing it for a long time.  Same thing with the parole board.  If they think the prisoner is rehabilitated enough for parole, then so be it.  Killing them is just wrong on many levels in my opinion.

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15 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yes, because a shit bag criminal in the middle of an altercation with a cop usually reaches for a cell phone or an insulin pump while he's being told emphatically not to reach in his waistband....

JFC!  The ONLY reason I'm glad VG didn't shoot this shit bag is I wouldn't want him to have to deal with the hassle and the inevitable moral ramifications that he would likely carry with him for the rest of his life regardless of how "good a shoot" it might have been.  But I honestly have to say I wish the shitbag had pulled the gun out and some other OKL officer with a body cam had put two in his chest and dropped the shitbag DTS. 

Sorry, but the world would have been a better place today without said shitbag in it.  Just saying.

Your judgment of this guy's role in society may be 100% correct, but at the time, Ofc Green didn't have the benefit of knowing the item was a gun. He followed his training and procedures. People involved in fights with cops aren't necessarily rational or making good, reliable decisions. 

Your opinions of the value of this "shitbag" to society are irrelevant, but I'm sure you feel better about yourself and your arguments for having spewed them. Thanks for sharing!

But you are completely correct that the hassle (administrative and legal) and the personal ramifications of being the "winner" of a lethal encounter suck. Best to avoid, when able.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Who cares?

There's over 7 billion people in the world - why should we make allowances for dangerous assholes just because they might become more civilized in a few decades?

Because

7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

we do NOT want our law enforcement officers to become executioners of suspected criminals.

And because

6 hours ago, soak_ed said:

Capital punishment is not the answer.

And probably a few more reasons that V might share if he were not frustrated with us. Like the fact that it's really no fun shooting someone, even if they need shooting.

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Can't we just be glad Mr. Green is OK? His choices couldn't have been horrible. Maybe different than what you or I would do but maybe that's why he wears a badge and we do not.

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3 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

And "looser" joins the SA lexicon. Thanks AB. Looser.

You just picked up on that?

Have you and your elk heard about Eva Dent yet?

 

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44 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You just picked up on that?

Have you and your elk heard about Eva Dent yet?

 

Shouldn't it be "Have you and your elk herd about Eva Dent yet?"

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17 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:
19 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

The odds are overwhelming that this shitbag will do nothing but more bad stuff.

He has a family.

People do change over time. Young men are violent. Not so much after age 50.

Maybe.  But that's 25 years worth of shitbaggery that I'm not willing to have society have to tolerate.  Lock him up until he's > 50 and we're getting somewhere.

 

ETA - I would submit that his "family" is likely FAR better off without this shitbag in their life.  

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Jeff can be forgiven for not referencing it himself, giving his belief that our legal system is primarily driven by Judeo-Christian values </irony font>

Fuck off.  I never said that.  I said that our legal system was originally based on Judeo-Christian values and as such that history should at least be acknowledged.  I never once said it is currently driven by that.  Did I mention to fuck off??

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Just now, Shootist Jeff said:

Fuck off.  I never said that.  I said that our legal system was originally based on Judeo-Christian values and as such that history should at least be acknowledged.  I never once said it is currently driven by that.  Did I mention to fuck off??

isn't it?

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2 hours ago, austin1972 said:

Can't we just be glad Mr. Green is OK? His choices couldn't have been horrible. Maybe different than what you or I would do but maybe that's why he wears a badge and we do not.

I think that's Corporal Green... And I'm very glad that he's OK (In OKC), and I'm very grateful to him for doing a job that most people would not.

Thank you again, Vernon.

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5 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

And "looser" joins the SA lexicon. Thanks AB. Looser.

DUDE!  Looser has been in the SA lexicon for years now.  Jeez, are you new here?

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10 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:
10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Jeff can be forgiven for not referencing it himself, giving his belief that our legal system is primarily driven by Judeo-Christian values </irony font>

Fuck off.  I never said that.  I said that our legal system was originally based on Judeo-Christian values and as such that history should at least be acknowledged.  I never once said it is currently driven by that.  Did I mention to fuck off??

Really?

So, our legal system -should- have bible verses and quotes from Jesus (in English, presumably?) because it originated in Judeo-Christian values; but our legal system and our culture should absolutely reject the actual Christian value of seeking redemption and forgiveness?

I can see why you'd prefer that I fuck off. But hey, I'm not mean about it, you can always seek redemption

-DSK

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4 hours ago, phillysailor said:

But you are completely correct that the hassle (administrative and legal) and the personal ramifications of being the "winner" of a lethal encounter suck. Best to avoid, when able.

It sure beats the ramifications of being the looser of a lethal encounter.

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10 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

DUDE!  Looser has been in the SA lexicon for years now.  Jeez, are you new here?

Sometimes, you gotta let the old people think they're still relevant. Otherwise It breaks their spirit, and they become incontinent.

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3 hours ago, soak_ed said:

They need to be in jail as long  as they are sentenced for.  They arrive at these sentences based on a number of factors.  I presume they know something about it, they've been doing it for a long time.  Same thing with the parole board.  If they think the prisoner is rehabilitated enough for parole, then so be it.  Killing them is just wrong on many levels in my opinion.

Jerry doesn’t want to build prisons, he wants all the money for his magic train, so he revamped the California penal system.  Attempted murder gets knocked down to Simple Assault, which is deemed  “Non-Violent”! So, they serve a couple months in the county jail, then get sprung.  Parole violations, they pop them in for a couple of days and spring them loose.  Revolving door!  A serious felony will spend less than half their sentence behind bars, here!  The only backbone he ever showed was towards the Manson Family.  Probably because he lived close to the Tate/LaBianca murders.  It seems like people get in more trouble here for sexual harassment or animal abuse than they do for phisically harming or killing someone!  Jerry even raised the bar for Grand Theft so that less people go to jail for theft.  Most get simple, unsupervised probation.  

You didn’t answer the question; If someone like Manson, or the shitbag that fought V. Green, gets out on Parole, would you want them living near your daughter and her children?

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

So, our legal system -should- have bible verses and quotes from Jesus (in English, presumably?) because it originated in Judeo-Christian values; but our legal system and our culture should absolutely reject the actual Christian value of seeking redemption and forgiveness?

Reject?  Where did you get that from?  Pulling stuff out of your ass again, I see.

And when you can show me instances of our American legal system and even the British one that preceded it mentions Allah or Vishnu or Buddah in our legal documents and teachings, I'm more than willing to put up some passages over the Alabama courthouse door from the koran.  Until then, this whole argument against the 10 Commandments or other bible passages in our courthouses is just standard librul silliness.

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22 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Until then, this whole argument against the 10 Commandments or other bible passages in our courthouses is just standard librul silliness.

Not according to SCOTUS. Frankly, they have just a little more authority than you on the matter. Just sayin'

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21 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Reject?  Where did you get that from?  Pulling stuff out of your ass again, I see.

 

 

Ah, no. You seem to love this accusation but you've been wrong every time. Did you already forget you said.............................................

20 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

...   ...  JFC!  The ONLY reason I'm glad VG didn't shoot this shit bag is I wouldn't want him to have to deal with the hassle and the inevitable moral ramifications that he would likely carry with him for the rest of his life regardless of how "good a shoot" it might have been.  But I honestly have to say I wish the shitbag had pulled the gun out and some other OKL officer with a body cam had put two in his chest and dropped the shitbag DTS. 

Sorry, but the world would have been a better place today without said shitbag in it.  Just saying.

 

Chockablock with forgiveness and hopes for redemption, oh yes.

-DSK

 

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ah, no. You seem to love this accusation but you've been wrong every time. Did you already forget you said.............................................

Chockablock with forgiveness and hopes for redemption, oh yes.

-DSK

Much as I tend to side against the forum's resident gun princess; that's just Jeffie expressing his personal preference in regards to the perp in question. It's not him making a comment about what the legal system should or shouldn't be like. The guy spouts enough retarded drivel without having to make it up, Steam. Leave the "I'll tell you what your position is" shit to Tom - he's not only occupying that niche, he's got it fortified across a dozen threads. ;)

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12 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Much as I tend to side against the forum's resident gun princess; that's just Jeffie expressing his personal preference in regards to the perp in question. It's not him making a comment about what the legal system should or shouldn't be like. The guy spouts enough retarded drivel without having to make it up, Steam. Leave the "I'll tell you what your position is" shit to Tom - he's not only occupying that niche, he's got it fortified across a dozen threads. ;)

OK sorry. So, saying that the crook deserved to be shot except that it would cause too much administrative headaches is really a very Christian sentiment?

I won't make that mistake again.

-DSK

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34 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

OK sorry. So, saying that the crook deserved to be shot except that it would cause too much administrative headaches is really a very Christian sentiment?

No, and Jeffie didn't say it was. He said it was HIS preference regarding the perp. He said nothing at all about whether it was a Christian sentiment. If you want to say Jeffie isn't being very Christian in expressing that sentiment, I don't think anyone would argue with you about it - not even the gun princess himself. I don't ever recall him pretending to be a good Christian. 

He still didn't say anything about what the legal system or US culture should be in the post you're quoting.

 

29 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

We do all agree Jeff is an asshole?

Well yeah. That's a given. Just not one pretending to be a good Christian boy. The cross-dressing kind of gives it away. :lol: 

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I don't care that much. We're all assholes on this bus.

Firesign Theatre?  Damn, off the rails here we come.  

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46 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

We do all agree Jeff is an asshole?

Yes

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14 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:
1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

We do all agree Jeff is an asshole?

Yes

I thought that was a rhetorical question.

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Just now, Ishmael said:

I thought that was a rhetorical question.

It was, but sometimes the bottom feeders just have to feed.  Jeff, you're the insecure brother I never had.  Love you buddy.  

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On 11/24/2017 at 9:35 PM, V. Green said:

Well that was a shitty day,  I have been away from here for a while but decided to come back and post this, and yes I realize it isn't political but this is where I am active.

 

I responded to a shoplifting call tonight and knew I would be without backup for a bit because both the other guys on duty were on other calls/traffic stops. I show up as the suspect is leaving the store and see him enter a vehicle. I blocked him into a parking spot and he couldn't pull forward due to a concrete pole in front of his car. As I approached I saw him reaching towards the center console, I instructed him to put both his hands out the window and he only showed me his left hand. I was able to control it and ordered him out of the car, he was reaching towards the back of his waistband as he was seated in the driver's seat. We had a 45 second physical altercation as i attempted to keep him from bringing his hand out from behind him. I was eventually able to open the door of the car and pulled him out.

When we hit the ground he kept reaching for his waistband and I felt a hard object in his waistband. I was able to control his hands and got him handcuffed, I then began a search of him and found a loaded handgun in his waistband. About that time a 2nd officer arrived on the scene and they controlled the passenger of the vehicle. 

Anyways, that is it, just had to vent! I am all banged up and kinda pissed off, the suspect is in jail and I am alive. But fuck that sucked!

that's why you're armed to the teeth, innit? you da man for not employing robocop mode.

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8 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:
9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

OK sorry. So, saying that the crook deserved to be shot except that it would cause too much administrative headaches is really a very Christian sentiment?

No, and Jeffie didn't say it was. He said it was HIS preference regarding the perp. He said nothing at all about whether it was a Christian sentiment. If you want to say Jeffie isn't being very Christian in expressing that sentiment, I don't think anyone would argue with you about it - not even the gun princess himself. I don't ever recall him pretending to be a good Christian. 

Sigh.

Jeff said (in a different thread) that we -should- have Christian slogans all over the courthouse, because our legal system originated in Judeo-Christian values (or words to that effect). Personally I don't know why we should have Bible verses instead of from the Torah, if that's true, but anyway, does that suggest to you that Jeff associates some sort of Christian underpinnings in the way we should approach the law, attitude towards criminals, etc etc? Then he comes out and says a shoplifter ought to be shot.

Please don't stick your paddle in the water if you haven't been keeping up. That all may have been too much of a leap for you, if so, I apologize.

FWIW I agreed with his sentiment that the scumbag is almost certain to be a waste of our oxygen -BUT- we follow higher principles for a reason.

-DSK

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9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Jeff said (in a different thread) that we -should- have Christian slogans all over the courthouse, because our legal system originated in Judeo-Christian values (or words to that effect). Personally I don't know why we should have Bible verses instead of from the Torah, if that's true, but anyway, does that suggest to you that Jeff associates some sort of Christian underpinnings in the way we should approach the law, attitude towards criminals, etc etc? Then he comes out and says a shoplifter ought to be shot.

Sigh.

Yes, Jeffie said those things. None of them is a statement claiming that he is Christian. Princess Jeffie doesn't hide the fact he is a gung-ho asshole willing to put down those he thinks the world is better off without. He has never hidden that. Any claim on his part to being a good Christian is, unless & until we see a quote otherwise, purely a figment of your imagination.

Jeffie might actually believe he is Christian. Met some pretty fucked up "Christians" in my time, so it wouldn't surprise me. However, we don't get to decide that for him. If you got him claiming the religious mantle - quote him doing so. Until then, you're stretching and you know it. Odd thing is, you don't need to make this shit up. Plenty of real stupidity on his part to mock him for if that's your thing.

 

9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Please don't stick your paddle in the water if you haven't been keeping up. That all may have been too much of a leap for you, if so, I apologize.

Please stop making up shit and you won't be asked to back it up. That all may be too much of a leap for you, if so, I apologise. 

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13 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:
10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Jeff said (in a different thread) that we -should- have Christian slogans all over the courthouse, because our legal system originated in Judeo-Christian values (or words to that effect). Personally I don't know why we should have Bible verses instead of from the Torah, if that's true, but anyway, does that suggest to you that Jeff associates some sort of Christian underpinnings in the way we should approach the law, attitude towards criminals, etc etc? Then he comes out and says a shoplifter ought to be shot.

Sigh.

Yes, Jeffie said those things. None of them is a statement claiming that he is Christian. Princess Jeffie doesn't hide the fact he is a gung-ho asshole willing to put down those he thinks the world is better off without. He has never hidden that. Any claim on his part to being a good Christian is, unless & until we see a quote otherwise, purely a figment of your imagination.

Jeffie might actually believe he is Christian. Met some pretty fucked up "Christians" in my time, so it wouldn't surprise me. However, we don't get to decide that for him. If you got him claiming the religious mantle - quote him doing so. Until then, you're stretching and you know it. Odd thing is, you don't need to make this shit up. Plenty of real stupidity on his part to mock him for if that's your thing.

@Steam Flyer Actually I never once said courthouses should be covered in bible slogans.  So fuck you again for trying to make shit up that I never said.  I said, given the fact that our country and our legal system had Judeo-Christian values as the foundation to our legal system, it is not surprising nor should it be shocking to anyone that we might have a christian inscription or a bible reference to justice as an historical shout-out to that lineage.

And to bents, I never claimed to be a Christian because I am not a theist.  I am agnostic at best.  I don't discount the possibility that there could be some higher force out there - whether it be a god, space aliens, FSM, whatever.  But I don't know for sure and care even less.  I certainly don't have the certainty that atheists claim to have.  And I think Atheists and theists are equally misguided and wrong in their claim to certainty.    

The fact that stunning women like Scarlet Johansson and Meghan Markle even exists make me hesitant to discount that there is actually a god after all.  

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14 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Please stop making up shit and you won't be asked to back it up. That all may be too much of a leap for you, if so, I apologise. 

Making shit up is what steamers does.  Everyone's gotta have a skill in life and I guess this is his niche.

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8 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And to bents, I never claimed to be a Christian because I am not a theist.  I am agnostic at best.  I don't discount the possibility that there could be some higher force out there - whether it be a god, space aliens, FSM, whatever.  But I don't know for sure and care even less.  I certainly don't have the certainty that atheists claim to have.  And I think Atheists and theists are equally misguided and wrong in their claim to certainty.

Didn't think you had. Pretty sure I'd have caught the "Fuck you, Jesus Christ" at least once if you had. :lol: 

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1 minute ago, Bent Sailor said:

Didn't think you had. Pretty sure I'd have caught the "Fuck you, Jesus Christ" at least once if you had. :lol: 

HA!  :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Atheists and theists are equally misguided and wrong in their claim to certainty.    

The fact that stunning women like Scarlet Johansson and Meghan Markle even exists make me hesitant to discount that there is actually a god after all.  

You can think whatever you like, I am an atheist and I am pretty damn sure there isn't any deity out there.  It is unwise to state anything with complete certainty so that's why I said I am pretty sure.  I can say with some certainty that there is far more scientific evidence against rather than for, a supreme being.  I do think there is a lot of wisdom in almost all of the world's major religions and valuable lessons to be learned from them, I just discount the god part.  And please don't counter with the old; 'Well, I'm not saying God is this old white dude, I am talking about some nebulous life force' or some such shit.  That's just hedging your bet and is essentially meaningless.

Scarlett Johansson is mine so just keep your grubby fantasies off of her.  You can have that Merkel girl, she looks too much like her mother Angela, to me.

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

but anyway, does that suggest to you that Jeff associates some sort of Christian underpinnings in the way we should approach the law, attitude towards criminals, etc etc? Then he comes out and says a shoplifter ought to be shot.

And speaking of making shit up, Steamboi, I never once said VG should have just executed the "shoplifter".  I said I wish the shitbag had actually gotten his gun out so that VG had a legitimate and legal reason to remove a piece of garbage from the earth.  There is a huge difference in what I said and what you lied about me saying.  Just saying.

And btw - nice job labeling this shitbag as only a "shoplifter".  He was not just a shoplifter, was someone who wrestled with a police offer and attempted to kill him.  You knew that and yet you tried to downplay this and make it sound like he just committed a minor offense and that this is all an over-reaction.  Your colors come through with every typed word you leave here.

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5 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

Scarlett Johansson is mine so just keep your grubby fantasies off of her.  

Soak, I have just fantasized that I came all over Scarlett's face right after she tongued my ass immediately before she was on the way to see you with no time to shower first.  Think about that the next time you fantasize about kissing her.  You're welcome.

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26 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

 I am agnostic at best.  I don't discount the possibility that there could be some higher force out there - whether it be a god, space aliens, FSM, whatever.  

Just as an aside, that's sometimes referred to as 'God of the cracks'...essentially as physics pushes outward, what's left in the cracks that physics can't explain is God.

Physics has an equivalent issue when it comes to morality and determinism.  You can get a long way but eventually you run into 'well, just because' and that's that.  That boundary doesn't have a nice pithy name of which I'm aware.

 

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2 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Just as an aside, that's sometimes referred to as 'God of the cracks'...essentially as physics pushes outward, what's left in the cracks that physics can't explain is God.

Physics has an equivalent issue when it comes to morality and determinism.  You can get a long way but eventually you run into 'well, just because' and that's that.  That boundary doesn't have a nice pithy name of which I'm aware.

 

How typically human to think if we can't explain it, it must be supernatural.  Given the scope of human knowledge 500 years ago compared to today, it would be foolish to think there aren't answers out there somewhere.  And even if there aren't, that doesn't make a terribly strong argument for some supreme entity.

In a sideways leap of thought, I am reading Asimov's Foundation Trilogy and I have to admit, I don't know what the fuss is all about.  I will readily admit I am not a big SciFi fan.  The only SciFi that ever captured my attention was the Dune series.  I have read every one of them including the ones written after Frank Herbert's death.  That and Terry Pratchett, who really defies description but some people might call it fantasy/SciFi.

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15 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Just as an aside, that's sometimes referred to as 'God of the cracks'...essentially as physics pushes outward, what's left in the cracks that physics can't explain is God.

Physics has an equivalent issue when it comes to morality and determinism.  You can get a long way but eventually you run into 'well, just because' and that's that.  That boundary doesn't have a nice pithy name of which I'm aware.

Sorry, but there is no physics issue with morality and determinism. Morality and physics don't overlap. One is a philosophical construct about how people should act and why, based on assumptions of some nebulous "good" - the other is an area of science that determines the nature of the universe regardless of whether or not people are present. 

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15 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

How typically human to think if we can't explain it, it must be supernatural.  Given the scope of human knowledge 500 years ago compared to today, it would be foolish to think there aren't answers out there somewhere.  And even if there aren't, that doesn't make a terribly strong argument for some supreme entity.

In a sideways leap of thought, I am reading Asimov's Foundation Trilogy and I have to admit, I don't know what the fuss is all about.  I will readily admit I am not a big SciFi fan.  The only SciFi that ever captured my attention was the Dune series.  I have read every one of them including the ones written after Frank Herbert's death.  That and Terry Pratchett, who really defies description but some people might call it fantasy/SciFi.

Psycho-history is actually one of the best explanations for the coexistence of determinism and freewill. That's actually a really big deal is both theology circles and in general philosophy.  Pretty brilliant insight from a dude with multiple personality disorder :)

--------------------

'And even if there aren't, that doesn't make a terribly strong argument for some supreme entity."

As Clarke put it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."  If you believe that, then it is virtually GUARANTEED that there is a supreme being or something indistinguishable from it.  Whether that supreme being gives a shit about us is the essence of the theist/deist debate.

Unless we fall into one of the the various solutions to the Fermi Paradox and discover that you're just players in my ancestor simulation.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Psycho-history is actually one of the best explanations for the coexistence of determinism and freewill. That's actually a really big deal is both theology circles and in general philosophy.  Pretty brilliant insight from a dude with multiple personality disorder :)

--------------------

'And even if there aren't, that doesn't make a terribly strong argument for some supreme entity."

As Clarke put it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."  If you believe that, then it is virtually GUARANTEED that there is a supreme being or something indistinguishable from it.  Whether that supreme being gives a shit about us is the essence of the theist/deist debate.

Unless we fall into one of the the various solutions to the Fermi Paradox and discover that you're just players in my ancestor simulation.

 

 

Sorry, I don't buy any of it.  Theology and philosophy ponder questions, they don't answer them. 

I don't know if it's true but I remember being told that Asimov once said something to the effect of; "Many people have called me a narcissist, but nobody has ever called me wrong."  It stayed in my memory because I am similar to that.

As far as Clarke goes, the mere act of breathing is magic to a person of very low intelligence.  Just because most people can''t understand something certainly doesn't elevate it to the level of the metaphysical. 

As an atheist, the theist/deist debate is of little interest to me.

 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Soak, I have just fantasized that I came all over Scarlett's face right after she tongued my ass immediately before she was on the way to see you with no time to shower first.  Think about that the next time you fantasize about kissing her.  You're welcome.

That's just nasty - in every way.

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

That's just nasty - in every way.

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

Not since she died.  But your mother seems to like it just fine......

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3 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

...

Please stop making up shit and you won't be asked to back it up. That all may be too much of a leap for you, if so, I apologise. 

Somehow you jumped on the "made shit up" bandwagon and ended up showing that I actually didn't make up a thing. It's all real, you just don't like it.

Reality doesn't care whether you like it or not. Deal with it. Or not.

-DSK

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45 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Somehow you jumped on the "made shit up" bandwagon and ended up showing that I actually didn't make up a thing. It's all real, you just don't like it.

Um, no. I simply pointed out that Jeffie didn't say anything about your legal system and culture having to keep or reject the Christian value of redemption and forgiveness. That he has never expressed a desire for everyone to uphold Christian values on the forum and so wasn't being hypocritical in his position. I don't think much of the gun-bunny princess, but that's because of the things he actually DOES say. Plenty of retarded, sociopathic, and generally disagreeable shit one can quote him saying without having to make up a position for the man.

I've personally had enough of old wankers with their weird grudge fixations making shit up about me; and I try to uphold that "do unto others" thing. I mistakenly thought you were an agreeable chap and would do the decent thing when it was pointed out you were arguing based on something you had imagined or misread. My apologies for assuming that of you, I shan't do it again.

 

Quote

Reality doesn't care whether you like it or not. Deal with it. Or not.

Indeed, and despite our disagreement, you should feel free to rejoin me in said reality when you're done with the fantasies you're currently indulging in.

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Minor update to the whole story. 

Today I had my use of force review board where they review the video/situation and my use of force to make sure that what I did was justified. Chief, Captain, a Lieutenant, and one officer of the same rank as me (Sergeant these days). Review went well as expected, they agreed my use of force was reasonable and met the legal requirements and was within policy. 

After the board chief informed me that in 1991 he chase and fought this same guy when he was a rookie and the guy was 18. Made me feel old because I would have been 5 at the time.  

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58 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Um, no. I simply pointed out that Jeffie didn't say anything about your legal system and culture having to keep or reject the Christian value of redemption and forgiveness. That he has never expressed a desire for everyone to uphold Christian values on the forum and so wasn't being hypocritical in his position.

No, he just said that courtrooms should have Bible verses proudly and prominently displayed. That says nothing whatever about law & Christianity.

These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.

-DSK

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28 minutes ago, V. Green said:

Minor update to the whole story. 

Today I had my use of force review board where they review the video/situation and my use of force to make sure that what I did was justified. Chief, Captain, a Lieutenant, and one officer of the same rank as me (Sergeant these days). Review went well as expected, they agreed my use of force was reasonable and met the legal requirements and was within policy. 

After the board chief informed me that in 1991 he chase and fought this same guy when he was a rookie and the guy was 18. Made me feel old because I would have been 5 at the time.  

Sounds like he's had a long run of being really good at being really stupid.

Hmmmmmm........ Is one of PA's regulars missing today?

-DSK

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Not since she died.  But your mother seems to like it just fine......

So you not only have a singularly putrid mouth but you're a necrophiliac as well?

The truth will out.

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

No, he just said that courtrooms should have Bible verses proudly and prominently displayed. That says nothing whatever about law & Christianity.

Correct. It says something about how he feels the laws' history should be acknowledged. It does not say that he thinks the laws should remain focused on Christian values. Nor does it, as per the original statement you're trying to wiggle out of, say he is personally Christian or uphold Christian values himself. He expressed his views on the perp, which is a very different kettle of fish from expressing how one thinks the justice system should view & treat the perp.

Jeffie is an sociopathic asshole. No-one, not even the man himself, is debating that. You just thought that meant you could make up shit to hound him with. Just man up and move on Steam.

 

2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.

Well, I wasn't going to way you have a weak mind, but since you've already gone there...

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3 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Correct. It says something about how he feels the laws' history should be acknowledged. It does not say that he thinks the laws should remain focused on Christian values. Nor does it, as per the original statement you're trying to wiggle out of, say he is personally Christian or uphold Christian values himself.

 

 

Thanks for explaining all that.

You're a better translator than I am, I barely speak Moron.

Religious-Politician.jpg

 

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I hate the fucker because he can fill out MAGNUM condoms.

Based on the law of averages, I'm the way I am because of people like him.

He should have been shot just to skew the averages.

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21 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

You're a better translator than I am, I barely speak Moron.

Religious-Politician.jpg

 

Sigh

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1 hour ago, V. Green said:

Minor update to the whole story. 

Today I had my use of force review board where they review the video/situation and my use of force to make sure that what I did was justified. Chief, Captain, a Lieutenant, and one officer of the same rank as me (Sergeant these days). Review went well as expected, they agreed my use of force was reasonable and met the legal requirements and was within policy. 

After the board chief informed me that in 1991 he chase and fought this same guy when he was a rookie and the guy was 18. Made me feel old because I would have been 5 at the time.  

Well done Vernon.  I am glad everything worked out well.  Hey, be careful out there!

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Thanks for explaining all that.

You're a better translator than I am, I barely speak Moron.

One can hardly tell. You write in Moron better than most idiots speak the language. :lol: 

 

1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Religious-Politician.jpg

Yup, Rick Perry is a downright hypocrite. No arguments there. What exactly was your point bringing him up?

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I'm glad you guys didn't chase Vernon away permanently.

I had to take a couple days to digest the situation that someone I don't even know went through. I'm sorry that Vernon and people like him, people like my Dad back in the day, people like 3 of my fraternity brothers, have to risk their lives over something as trivial as shoplifting, and risk not going home to their families cause some societal fucktard decides that day is a good day to kill someone.


Thank you Vernon, and thank you to your Elk as well.

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Thanks for explaining all that.

You're a better translator than I am, I barely speak Moron.

Religious-Politician.jpg

 

er, is it wrong that I'd like to witness that guy take a punch to the face?? if he did he'd probably pretend it was just a pat on the back.

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I'm glad you guys didn't chase Vernon away permanently.

I had to take a couple days to digest the situation that someone I don't even know went through. I'm sorry that Vernon and people like him, people like my Dad back in the day, people like 3 of my fraternity brothers, have to risk their lives over something as trivial as shoplifting, and risk not going home to their families cause some societal fucktard decides that day is a good day to kill someone.


Thank you Vernon, and thank you to your Elk as well.

+1

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10 hours ago, soak_ed said:

You can think whatever you like, I am an atheist and I am pretty damn sure there isn't any deity out there.  It is unwise to state anything with complete certainty so that's why I said I am pretty sure.  I can say with some certainty that there is far more scientific evidence against rather than for, a supreme being.  I do think there is a lot of wisdom in almost all of the world's major religions and valuable lessons to be learned from them, I just discount the god part.  And please don't counter with the old; 'Well, I'm not saying God is this old white dude, I am talking about some nebulous life force' or some such shit.  That's just hedging your bet and is essentially meaningless.

The bolded part seems to me to define you as agnostic, not atheist. An agnostic is an atheist who hedges his bets, which is what you're doing there.

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9 hours ago, V. Green said:

Minor update to the whole story. 

Today I had my use of force review board where they review the video/situation and my use of force to make sure that what I did was justified. Chief, Captain, a Lieutenant, and one officer of the same rank as me (Sergeant these days). Review went well as expected, they agreed my use of force was reasonable and met the legal requirements and was within policy. 

After the board chief informed me that in 1991 he chase and fought this same guy when he was a rookie and the guy was 18. Made me feel old because I would have been 5 at the time.  

Glad to hear that your judgement was vindicated, Vern, but,  more glad that you're OK. 

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:
7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I'm glad you guys didn't chase Vernon away permanently.

I had to take a couple days to digest the situation that someone I don't even know went through. I'm sorry that Vernon and people like him, people like my Dad back in the day, people like 3 of my fraternity brothers, have to risk their lives over something as trivial as shoplifting, and risk not going home to their families cause some societal fucktard decides that day is a good day to kill someone.


Thank you Vernon, and thank you to your Elk as well.

+1

I apologize for getting distracted into a petty shitfight on the side.

A belated +1 from here in the dunce corner. Lemme know when I can take off the hat, 'K?

-DSK

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