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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
11233

J/112E

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So, I’m pretty close to finalizing my order for a J/112E (looks like I’m hull# 33), and I wanted to check in with any owners or crew that have sailed on a 112 for any suggestions of features for the build. The boat will be used for a fair amount of double-handed coastal cruising with the S.O. as well as Weds night beer can racing and a few weekend destination regattas.

As a long-time J/109 owner, the boat felt both VERY familiar under sail as well as markedly different. The lightness of the carbon rig kept the boat on her feet shorthanded, and the longer waterline/sharper entry point helped to cut through some messy chop and waves that the 109 would have slammed into. Not sure how I feel about the new mainsail trimming system yet, but LOVED the recessed wheel!

For options, other than the teak deck and shoal draft keel I’m pretty much adding them all. There are a few non-standard enhancements I plan of having added at the time of commissioning such as a mainsail track system from either Antal or Tides, lazy jacks, and a hot/cold shower at transom. Gotta make life easy for the two of us on the extended cruising after all.

So J/112E owners, any other suggestions you have for equipment or configuration? Anything you had done (or maybe more importantly didn’t do) at the time of purchase/commissioning that you now regret? Oh, and what did you go with for sails, in particular spinnaker(s)? At this point I am pretty sure I’m going with an A1.5, trying to decide if the A2 in a must-have or just a want-to-have. What have you found the sweet spot is for sailing off the wind?

Lots of questions I know, any insights from people who have spent some time on a sistership will be greatly appreciated!!

 

Grazie, and ciao for now!

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Not a 112E owner, but I would definitely look at the Ubi Maior Jiber if you are planning on having a jib furler.  See the J121 and Ubi Maior threads for deets.

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On 11/27/2017 at 3:10 PM, J28 said:

Not a 112E owner, but I would definitely look at the Ubi Maior Jiber if you are planning on having a jib furler.  See the J121 and Ubi Maior threads for deets.

Hmmmm, interesting alternative to the stock roller furling unit. Thanks for bringing this product to my attention.

I'm mostly going with the stock items on the boat, the one exception is that I am considering using the Selden reversible winches in place of the Harken 46STA primaries and the 40STA mainsail winches. Love the idea of being able to get a little ease in with just the push of a button and turn of the handle. Anyone else out there had good/bad experiences with these?

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12 minutes ago, 11233 said:

Hmmmm, interesting alternative to the stock roller furling unit. Thanks for bringing this product to my attention.

I'm mostly going with the stock items on the boat, the one exception is that I am considering using the Selden reversible winches in place of the Harken 46STA primaries and the 40STA mainsail winches. Love the idea of being able to get a little ease in with just the push of a button and turn of the handle. Anyone else out there had good/bad experiences with these?

One more thing to go wrong. What's wrong with easing it on the drum?

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I am a 109 owner but have a few thoughts, most of which you have probably covered already. Mine was one of the last ones built, and was made in France, which I think is the same as the 112. Some of this may apply.

I looks like the 112 comes with the same volvo D1-30 as mine, access to the right side of the motor is super tight, not enough room to pull the fuel and oil filters out without slopping petroleum products. Unless J has widened the engine box on the 112 it would be great to have a side access panel. Mine was delivered with a volvo brand secondary fuel filter/water separator. It is fussy to deal with, does not have a clear bowl to check for water, and the filter elements are expensive (and take 3 O rings to change). Spec a Racor if you can.

For some reason new boats seem to not have a proper raw water strainer for the motor installed. Adding one after the fact was not too bad, but why not have it done up front.

I did not see if cabin heat is an option, but since we sail in the PNW we added a forced air unit. If you are considering it try to get it done as the boat is built. I added it later and it was a complex project since there are lots of tight areas in these shallow bilge boats. If you do, think about an outlet in the big aft storage area, it is great for drying out wet gear rather than have it in the head or dripping in a locker.

Mine was made without access ports in the fuel and water tanks, and no level sender in the water tank. I am not sure if this was an unchecked option by the first owner, but again a lot easier to add during the build than later.

The hatches on mine are by Moonlight and too lightly built. If the builder still uses them reqest an upgrade. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, ASP said:

One more thing to go wrong. What's wrong with easing it on the drum?

Nothing at all wrong with removing it from the self tailer and easing the sheet, a fine time-honored way to trim a sail. Well, at least time honored since there have been self-tailing winches, that is. But, as someone who like shiny new things, I was wondering if there are any benefits to a "new" way to do this.

For example, if I were single-handing it is likely I would be cross-sheeting the jib to the windward side so I could sit up high and easily get to the traveler, the mainsheet winch and the jib winch. If I hit a lull and needed to ease both sails, it seems likely that without using the autopilot or driving with my leg that I could reach to both winch handles, press the button in the middle of the handle and give a little turn to ease out the sheets of both the main and the jib. And as that adjustment usually means easing out until you get a bit of a luff and then trimming back in, I am imagining that would be VERY easy and VERY fast with the Selden reversible winches, all while being able to manually steer with my hand and not my foot!! 

But maybe the winches do not work as advertised, and in the end you need to end up easing the old way. Or perhaps they are far more likely to fail than the standard two-speed winches. That is what I am wondering. Have you (or anyone else) had much experience with these in actual conditions, versus the promo materials the manufacturer has out there??

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Sounds overly complicated and  energy intensive.  Why waste precious stored  energy easing a sheet. 

  I have used backwinders , but they were on huge sailing yachts.  Conventional sheet easing was simply too dangerous. 

 

Better to spend money on systems that make shorthaded cruising easy..... for instance an anchor chain counter with a cockpit mounted up and down joystick.  I use the Quick model . 

 

 

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14 hours ago, steele said:

I am a 109 owner but have a few thoughts, most of which you have probably covered already. Mine was one of the last ones built, and was made in France, which I think is the same as the 112. Some of this may apply.

I looks like the 112 comes with the same volvo D1-30 as mine, access to the right side of the motor is super tight, not enough room to pull the fuel and oil filters out without slopping petroleum products. Unless J has widened the engine box on the 112 it would be great to have a side access panel. Mine was delivered with a volvo brand secondary fuel filter/water separator. It is fussy to deal with, does not have a clear bowl to check for water, and the filter elements are expensive (and take 3 O rings to change). Spec a Racor if you can.

For some reason new boats seem to not have a proper raw water strainer for the motor installed. Adding one after the fact was not too bad, but why not have it done up front.

I did not see if cabin heat is an option, but since we sail in the PNW we added a forced air unit. If you are considering it try to get it done as the boat is built. I added it later and it was a complex project since there are lots of tight areas in these shallow bilge boats. If you do, think about an outlet in the big aft storage area, it is great for drying out wet gear rather than have it in the head or dripping in a locker.

Mine was made without access ports in the fuel and water tanks, and no level sender in the water tank. I am not sure if this was an unchecked option by the first owner, but again a lot easier to add during the build than later.

The hatches on mine are by Moonlight and too lightly built. If the builder still uses them reqest an upgrade. 

 

 

Interesting about the side access panels. On my 109 built in 2004 there were access panels both in the head on the starboard side as well as in the aft cabin on the port side. I am pretty sure that on the 112 I sailed on earlier this month that there was an access panel on the starboard side; I don't remember if there was one on the port side in the head. 

Great call on the Racor! I had one of those installed on my current boat and it paid dividends almost immediately, when the engine started running poorly and was stalling a low speeds while coming into the dock. Went below, flipped the handle to the second filter and she started up just fine and ran like a dream from that point on. A few weeks lter when the new filter came in I replaced the fouled one and we were good to go.

I don't think I'll go with AC or heat, as the times that has been necessary in the past in this area are few and far between. A good dehumidifier that can run while one is away from the boat is worth it's weight in gold however...you leave with the spinnaker soaking wet on Wednesday and when you come back on Friday it is as fry as a bone and the bot is smelling oh so fresh.

Thanks for the ideas!!

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If the set up on the Volvo is the same as mine port side access is not needed, all the routine maintenance stuff is on the right.

Agree on the dehumidifier, safer and more effective when away from the boat. We only use the heat while on the boat.

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19 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Sounds overly complicated and  energy intensive.  Why waste precious stored  energy easing a sheet. 

  I have used backwinders , but they were on huge sailing yachts.  Conventional sheet easing was simply too dangerous. 

 

Better to spend money on systems that make shorthaded cruising easy..... for instance an anchor chain counter with a cockpit mounted up and down joystick.  I use the Quick model . 

 

 

Yes, I have that Quick cockpit mounted remote for the anchor chain on the current boat, it came in VERY handy this summer!! As far as the reversible winch, to the best of my knowledge there is no "stored energy". You turn the handle clockwise for the high gear, counter clockwise for low gear, and then press a button in the middle of the handle grip which puts the winch in a "third" gear that happens to be reverse instead of high when you turn the winch clockwise.

There is a promo video here below, but what I'd really like to know form anyone that has used this is if they work well and are useful.

 

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I assumed that you were speaking about a powered winch.

when you dump a sheet in a gust you may dump meters of sheet...i cant imagine fitting a winch handle , then backwinding out a few meters.

im also hesitant to ever leave a winch handle in a winch . Sounds like an  Accident waiting to happen 

a back winder might be handy for regatta sail fine trim .  I assume that it requires a special, propriatary winch handle ?

do these handle lock into the winch like a conventional  handle 

 

looks difficult to rapidly remove the sheet from its self tailer, especially ifthe sheet is locked hard into the tailer jaws. 

 

 

Best to find someone who has used them .

 

what is the cost difference compared to a normal winch . 

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3 hours ago, 11233 said:

There is a promo video here below, but what I'd really like to know form anyone that has used this is if they work well and are useful.

 

Drop me a PM and I'll connect you to the owner/skipper of the boat in the vid.

He swears by them, but I guess there's a reason why they're still a niche product.

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On 11/30/2017 at 3:21 PM, 11233 said:

Interesting about the side access panels. On my 109 built in 2004 there were access panels both in the head on the starboard side as well as in the aft cabin on the port side. I am pretty sure that on the 112 I sailed on earlier this month that there was an access panel on the starboard side; I don't remember if there was one on the port side in the head. 

Great call on the Racor! I had one of those installed on my current boat and it paid dividends almost immediately, when the engine started running poorly and was stalling a low speeds while coming into the dock. Went below, flipped the handle to the second filter and she started up just fine and ran like a dream from that point on. A few weeks lter when the new filter came in I replaced the fouled one and we were good to go.

I don't think I'll go with AC or heat, as the times that has been necessary in the past in this area are few and far between. A good dehumidifier that can run while one is away from the boat is worth it's weight in gold however...you leave with the spinnaker soaking wet on Wednesday and when you come back on Friday it is as fry as a bone and the bot is smelling oh so fresh.

Thanks for the ideas!!

My J/109 (hull 266) built in US has access panels both sides same as yours.  What hull number was your J/109?  If you get a chance to crawl around on the 112 see if there is anything that needs access on both sides of the engine and ask when they build it to do that.  I second the dehumidifier recommendation.  Where will the homeport be located?  That might determine what other needs are.

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On 12/1/2017 at 12:48 PM, Blur said:

Drop me a PM and I'll connect you to the owner/skipper of the boat in the vid.

He swears by them, but I guess there's a reason why they're still a niche product.

Will do, I'd love to talk to him!

 

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11233, I'm J/112e #32. (USA 61232).

We just finalized our order and went into production.

I went with the UBI MAIOR JB22RW furler after seeing the J/121 in Annapolis and doing some research.

We also upgraded all the winches to Performa, and the clutches to Spinlock XTR812s.

We kept the AG+ Aluminum Mast for PHRF at the recommendation of the designer, Al Johnstone.

J/Composites has made the Port side access Hatch to the Engine standard now... I was going to have it added.

I designed a custom Nav Station to get room for a full B&G system and an 18 circuit distribution panel.

I'm also going with a full Harken Hydraulic Backstay (like the J/121) this is being done in Detroit after she arrives.

And we're changing the Nautos Rigid Vang to something stronger after seeing it snapped in half on a recent J/112e in Chicago.

I'm doing a two phase program on the sails... ULLMAN FiberPath Enduro for my Single / Double-Handed / Working / Delivery set. The full race sails TBD.

VERY excited, we're coming from a S&S IOR design from the '70s that we raced for 20 years.

Where are you located?

 

D764694F-E930-454D-B9ED-518851DD649D.png

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14 hours ago, WHK said:

My J/109 (hull 266) built in US has access panels both sides same as yours.  What hull number was your J/109?  If you get a chance to crawl around on the 112 see if there is anything that needs access on both sides of the engine and ask when they build it to do that.  I second the dehumidifier recommendation.  Where will the homeport be located?  That might determine what other needs are.

Ah, hello V.S.! We met a few years back at NYYC during the 109 NAs. Hope all is well with you!! I was hull #171 back in the 109 days, a little bit of an earlier adopter on the 112 I guess. Going to be based out of Boston, but will be down in your neck of the woods for some cruising this summer, with any luck!!

 

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8 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

11233, I'm J/112e #32. (USA 61232).

We just finalized our order and went into production.

I went with the UBI MAIOR JB22RW furler after seeing the J/121 in Annapolis and doing some research.

We also upgraded all the winches to Performa, and the clutches to Spinlock XTR812s.

We kept the AG+ Aluminum Mast for PHRF at the recommendation of the designer, Al Johnstone.

J/Composites has made the Port side access Hatch to the Engine standard now... I was going to have it added.

I designed a custom Nav Station to get room for a full B&G system and an 18 circuit distribution panel.

I'm also going with a full Harken Hydraulic Backstay (like the J/121) this is being done in Detroit after she arrives.

And we're changing the Nautos Rigid Vang to something stronger after seeing it snapped in half on a recent J/112e in Chicago.

I'm doing a two phase program on the sails... ULLMAN FiberPath Enduro for my Single / Double-Handed / Working / Delivery set. The full race sails TBD.

VERY excited, we're coming from a S&S IOR design from the '70s that we raced for 20 years.

Where are you located?

 

D764694F-E930-454D-B9ED-518851DD649D.png

Hello 32!

Homeport of Boston, MA, with sailing from the Gulf of Maine to Long Island Sound. Very cool info about your build, a few questions for you...

1) You're the second person to mention the Jiber to me. Very interesting concept, certainly looks like it makes getting the sail up/down (especially in any amount of breeze) a heck of a lot easier. Do you hank it on to the forestay with soft hanks? I have also seen a video where it looked like there was some zipper mechanism, but can't quite make it out. What were the major pros/cons that sent you that way?

2) What kept you from going with the carbon rig? Was there a really big hit on the rating?? I loved the feel of the boat with so much less weight aloft, especially as we will be doing a lot of short-handed sailing. Of course, it does add a good chunk of change to the final price, so I'm not sure if it is worth it.

3) Yup, going with the remote hydraulic adjuster on the pedestal, will make it VERY easy to adjust the backstay while driving/trimming. On the 109 we were CONSTANTLY adjusting the backstay for changing wind-speeds, so this will be a nice improvement. What are the "standard" clutches they were planning on installing and why specifically did you go with the Spinlock XTRs?

4) What are your plans for the chute? I'm sold on doing an A1.5, but thinking of also adding an A2 for some deeper sailing. And what size is your sailmaker specing our for the kite? The J/boats specs called for something in the 120 m2 (1.292 sq ft) range for the spinnaker, which was the size of the "big" PHRF chute on my 109. But my sailmaker came back with sail designs in the 155-165 m2 (1,655-1,774 sq ft) range, which seems VERY big to me, especially for double-handing, plus likely to incur a big ratings hit. What are you seeing from your sailmaker for design specs??

Congrats on the new boat, she will definitely be a big change after the S&S. I LOVED the way my 109 sailed over the 12 years I had her, the 112 is a lovely evolution that should no doubt provide at least that many years of enjoyment going forward!!

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Hello Boston 33!

1) Pros: No Extrusion on the Headstay, just Rod, so its lighter and has less windage; 2) Easy Up/Dpown as you mentioned, great for short-handed; 3) Lower profile Drum, allows a sail size closer to normal; 4) Furls 'Top-Down' thanks to the Spindle at the top capturing the Shuttle at full hoist. You can use Soft Hanks *or* a Zipper Bag Luff - we're going with Soft Hanks, I believe the Zipper Bag would kill the Easy Up/Down advantage. Cons: $$$

2) The proven PHRF penalty in the USA is -6 sec/mile right now (see DAUNTLESS). And Al Johnstone says this Aluminum Mast (custom designed specifically for this boat) is very special, and after sailing the boat in Annapolis in 18-22KT I agree, the boat is plenty stiff with the AG+ Rig. The AG+ Mast also has a very special design: it can take Antal 40 Cars for the Main *or* Bolt Rope, with no modification and *no* Track... very cool and works perfectly with our intended program.

3) We took a credit for the SailTec Hydraulics and are going with the Harken 'Compact Panel' product that J/Boats is putting on the J/121. On the Clutches: the standard ones are Antal 814s, the Spinlock XTR812s are much easier to service (all above deck) and have a 'new and improved' clutch mechanism deisgned specifically for smaller hi-tech line.

4) I'm starting with a used J/111 110SQM. After we get a feel for that size we'll make our decision on the new ones. Gut feel: nothing bigger than 120SQM for short handed, and a 140SQM (A2) for crewed / ligher breezes.

Congrats to you as well. We have several J/109 owners here that are always smiling! Two of my crew were on teh 109 "GOAT RODEO" and came back and said "You need one of those!". I almost bought a used one but decided I'm buying my dream boat, to sail to the grave, hopefully 20+ years at least!  ; ) 

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3 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

Hello Boston 33!

1) Pros: No Extrusion on the Headstay, just Rod, so its lighter and has less windage; 2) Easy Up/Dpown as you mentioned, great for short-handed; 3) Lower profile Drum, allows a sail size closer to normal; 4) Furls 'Top-Down' thanks to the Spindle at the top capturing the Shuttle at full hoist. You can use Soft Hanks *or* a Zipper Bag Luff - we're going with Soft Hanks, I believe the Zipper Bag would kill the Easy Up/Down advantage. Cons: $$$

2) The proven PHRF penalty in the USA is -6 sec/mile right now (see DAUNTLESS). And Al Johnstone says this Aluminum Mast (custom designed specifically for this boat) is very special, and after sailing the boat in Annapolis in 18-22KT I agree, the boat is plenty stiff with the AG+ Rig. The AG+ Mast also has a very special design: it can take Antal 40 Cars for the Main *or* Bolt Rope, with no modification and *no* Track... very cool and works perfectly with our intended program.

3) We took a credit for the SailTec Hydraulics and are going with the Harken 'Compact Panel' product that J/Boats is putting on the J/121. On the Clutches: the standard ones are Antal 814s, the Spinlock XTR812s are much easier to service (all above deck) and have a 'new and improved' clutch mechanism deisgned specifically for smaller hi-tech line.

4) I'm starting with a used J/111 110SQM. After we get a feel for that size we'll make our decision on the new ones. Gut feel: nothing bigger than 120SQM for short handed, and a 140SQM (A2) for crewed / ligher breezes.

Congrats to you as well. We have several J/109 owners here that are always smiling! Two of my crew were on teh 109 "GOAT RODEO" and came back and said "You need one of those!". I almost bought a used one but decided I'm buying my dream boat, to sail to the grave, hopefully 20+ years at least!  ; ) 

Many tanks for the input.

1) Yes, I thought the zipper bag would kinda defeat the ease of handling. I am going to seriously consider this.

2) We get -3 for a carbon rig up here in NE. I am going with a mainsail track system, likely the Antal, so the fact the aluminum mast accepts it without modification is well worth thinking about.

3) Yes, I'm doing the remote panel as well, and was considering an upgrade to clutches.

4) Thanks for the measurements!

And here is hoping for 30+ years...or at least until the J/113x hits the market!! ;-)

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Raced the 112e Davanti Tyres in the Uk. Awesome boat, she is a very pimped out version with fin keel and carbon rig.

Sails. A2 I would say is pretty important if you plan on doing any racing in more than 10 knots. North have done some fast sails already so deffinatley worth talking to them. 

Worth upgrading deck hardware to get the most enjoyment out of the boat. 

They point really well and are a joy to sail

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Cats... thanks for the information.

I followed DAVANTI TYRES all year as J/LANCE 12, incredible performance under both names!

 I've spoken with Didier (J/Composites) at length in Annapolis. I have taken some of their mods to my boat but not all, I'm setting ours up as a PHRF/ORR boat--no IRC in Detroit anymore--so I'm keeping the 'bulb' Keel, and no Carbon Mast, to remain 'PHRF Neutral'.

I'm defintely doing the Jib Inhaulers. I almost went with the Locking Jib Halyards and Cunnighams (Cool!) but I would take a penalty for that.

I did upgrade all the Winches to Peforma, the Clutches to Spinlock, and the Furler to UBI like J/121.

Anything I missed?

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3 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

Our boat's intro to Detroit friends...

 

Looks like you are just a LITTLE bit excited for the new ride!!! When does she arrive in the US? Are you doing B&G for the instruments??

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4 hours ago, Cats Rule said:

Raced the 112e Davanti Tyres in the Uk. Awesome boat, she is a very pimped out version with fin keel and carbon rig.

Sails. A2 I would say is pretty important if you plan on doing any racing in more than 10 knots. North have done some fast sails already so deffinatley worth talking to them. 

Worth upgrading deck hardware to get the most enjoyment out of the boat. 

They point really well and are a joy to sail

Thanks Cats Rule. No fin keel for me, but I am seriously leaning towards the carbon rig. After sailing my 109 close to 25k nm with an aluminum stick, the difference in feel was immediately noticeable when driving the 112. 

Do you have a contact on Davanti I can talk to about spinnakers? Struggling with the correct size for the kites, especially for the A2.

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11233, uh, yeah... EXCITED. 

We're going with all B&G H5000 - Hercules. J/Composites is doing a custom Nav Station cabinet from a design I did with Didier to house it all.

The boat is expected in R.I. in April, and we truck it to Detroit from there.

My wife and I are going to the J/Composites factory at the end of January to see her before decking.

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2 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

11233, uh, yeah... EXCITED. 

We're going with all B&G H5000 - Hercules. J/Composites is doing a custom Nav Station cabinet from a design I did with Didier to house it all.

The boat is expected in R.I. in April, and we truck it to Detroit from there.

My wife and I are going to the J/Composites factory at the end of January to see her before decking.

Where will you be keeping/racing your new boat in Detroit?

I crew on the J111 Freedom, I expect we'll be seeing each other on the water next summer.

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glexpress... We've moved to GLYC from JBM, longtime LSSC members.

Freedom was BRITISH SOLDIER correct?

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On 12/5/2017 at 12:21 AM, TJM.CODE said:

11233, I'm J/112e #32. (USA 61232).

We just finalized our order and went into production.

I went with the UBI MAIOR JB22RW furler after seeing the J/121 in Annapolis and doing some research.

We also upgraded all the winches to Performa, and the clutches to Spinlock XTR812s.

We kept the AG+ Aluminum Mast for PHRF at the recommendation of the designer, Al Johnstone.

J/Composites has made the Port side access Hatch to the Engine standard now... I was going to have it added.

I designed a custom Nav Station to get room for a full B&G system and an 18 circuit distribution panel.

I'm also going with a full Harken Hydraulic Backstay (like the J/121) this is being done in Detroit after she arrives.

And we're changing the Nautos Rigid Vang to something stronger after seeing it snapped in half on a recent J/112e in Chicago.

I'm doing a two phase program on the sails... ULLMAN FiberPath Enduro for my Single / Double-Handed / Working / Delivery set. The full race sails TBD.

VERY excited, we're coming from a S&S IOR design from the '70s that we raced for 20 years.

Where are you located?

I'm interested in hearing about your experience with the Ubi Maior Jiber after you splash your new ride as I am considering dumping our Harken furler for one. 

Beautiful boat BTW!

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1 hour ago, TJM.CODE said:

glexpress... We've moved to GLYC from JBM, longtime LSSC members.

Freedom was BRITISH SOLDIER correct?

That's correct, USA 84 built in france.

I was a LSSC kid way back in the day, grew up sailing with my dad on brothers on Gallivant.

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glexpress... I remember GALLIVANT!

My brother Leo and I had the Bristol 29 LUMPY GRAVY, and the Hughes 35 IMMISERICORS.

My brother Damian had the J/30 LOOMING DEBAUCHERY.

My parents had the Legend 37 HAWK.

My cousin Mike has the Santana 35 ITSFUNAGAIN.

And my Uncle John had Y.O.L.O. - he founded LSSC.

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13 minutes ago, TJM.CODE said:

glexpress... I remember GALLIVANT!

My brother Leo and I had the Bristol 29 LUMPY GRAVY, and the Hughes 35 IMMISERICORS.

My brother Damian had the J/30 LOOMING DEBAUCHERY.

My parents had the Legend 37 HAWK.

My cousin Mike has the Santana 35 ITSFUNAGAIN.

And my Uncle John had Y.O.L.O. - he founded LSSC.

Dad had a few good seasons with the old Gallivant, we still see her from time to time.  The current owner sails her out of GP Farms Pier.

Anyway, aside from Wednesday nights (I assume) what races do you have planed next summer?

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glexpress... Wednesday nights, for sure.

Maybe Tuesdays or Thursdays.

DRYA Saturdays, BYC Long Distance, WYC Overnighter. No Mac in 2018. Mac in 2019 for sure, and Huron Challenge is it is run.

The boat will probably not be on the water until late June or early July.

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9 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

11233, uh, yeah... EXCITED. 

We're going with all B&G H5000 - Hercules. J/Composites is doing a custom Nav Station cabinet from a design I did with Didier to house it all.

The boat is expected in R.I. in April, and we truck it to Detroit from there.

My wife and I are going to the J/Composites factory at the end of January to see her before decking.

Haha, master of understated are you!

Likely to do B&G but not the high-end stuff, going with Zeus3 chartplotter, Triton2 displays, etc...and if all goes as planned a trip to Olonne-sur-Mer for us as well...with a stop or two in Paris, bien, bien sûr! Perhaps we will see you there...

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11233, when are you planning on going? 

We want to see her before the decking, so they're telling us to go somewhere in JAN 30 - FEB 5.

We'd love to meet up there if we overlap.

...

We had Zeus2 and Triton2 on our last boat... loved it.  Advice: Be sure to install with cables from MARETRON not the cheap B&G cables.

I work with DeviceNet (24vdc) in Auto plants. NMEA 2000 is actually 12vdc DeviceNet. Cables are everything. the MARETRON cables are made by TURCK... industrial stuff.

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You two are way ahead of me on these things, but I agree on the Nautos vang. Mine has not shown any sign of failure, but lots of creaking and growning. Going with a higher end product would be worth it just to reduce the noise. 

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On 07/12/2017 at 3:12 AM, 11233 said:

Do you have a contact on Davanti I can talk to about spinnakers? Struggling with the correct size for the kites, especially for the A2.

Try contacting Paul Heys via Key Yachting, they’re the UK J dealer and from what I remember he was out on Davanti regularly. 

http://www.keyyachting.com/

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On 2017-12-05 at 6:21 AM, TJM.CODE said:

And we're changing the Nautos Rigid Vang to something stronger after seeing it snapped in half on a recent J/112e in Chicago.

Do you know how it broke and what are you replacing it with? 

We have the Nautos on the J/111 and I'm in the process of rebuilding it with carbon tubes :)

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On 12/7/2017 at 8:32 PM, steele said:

You two are way ahead of me on these things, but I agree on the Nautos vang. Mine has not shown any sign of failure, but lots of creaking and growning. Going with a higher end product would be worth it just to reduce the noise. 

The US built models come with the Hall Spars Quick Vang Model B12 - similar creaking and groaning but the vang has been durable.  I surrounded the vang mounting forks with stainless washers on the clevis pin to take up slack and prevent the vang from twisting when under load.  It helped keep the vang better aligned.

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3 hours ago, Blur said:

Do you know how it broke and what are you replacing it with? 

We have the Nautos on the J/111 and I'm in the process of rebuilding it with carbon tubes :)

The owner's 11 year old son was helping him bring the boat to the hoist to winter. Dad told his son to tighten up the main sheet to stop the boom from moving around. The Main sheet on the J/112e is lead to two Harken 40 winches. The son must not have realized how strong his was with a 40 in hand... SNAP.

The J/112e USA build still comes with the NAUTOS, so I removed it for a credit and I'm talking to Hall Spars, they still make the Quick Vang.

I'm also considering going to a BOOM KICKER, it's basically impossible to break, I had one for 20 years on my Hughes 35... no noise, no breakage, no problems.

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1 hour ago, TJM.CODE said:

The owner's 11 year old son was helping him bring the boat to the hoist to winter. Dad told his son to tighten up the main sheet to stop the boom from moving around. The Main sheet on the J/112e is lead to two Harken 40 winches. The son must not have realized how strong his was with a 40 in hand... SNAP.

The J/112e USA build still comes with the NAUTOS, so I removed it for a credit and I'm talking to Hall Spars, they still make the Quick Vang.

I'm also considering going to a BOOM KICKER, it's basically impossible to break, I had one for 20 years on my Hughes 35... no noise, no breakage, no problems.

My J/109 had the Harken vang as I recall, and I put that thing through some serious abuse ove the years without a problem. That being said, the Boom Kicker looks pretty cool, perhaps that would be worth trying. I am guessing it is the Nautos 91330 that comes as the standard option, is that right?

BTW, let's keep in touch about the factory tour. We have a few moving pieces on the travel schedule right now, but if we can make a trip over there work it would be great to meet up with you guys there!!

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Just now, 11233 said:

My J/109 had the Harken vang as I recall, and I put that thing through some serious abuse ove the years without a problem. That being said, the Boom Kicker looks pretty cool, perhaps that would be worth trying. I am guessing it is the Nautos 91330 that comes as the standard option, is that right?

BTW, let's keep in touch about the factory tour. We have a few moving pieces on the travel schedule right now, but if we can make a trip over there work it would be great to meet up with you guys there!!

I had a Boom Kicker on my J/30 and they do work well with virtually nothing on it to fail.  One precaution is to make sure the crew knows it does not provide the same level of support as a rigid vang.  People have been "surprised" when they lean on the boom and expect it to support them if you don't have a topping lift (or halyard or sail) attached.  It gently launches them over the side :)

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11233... As soon as we have our Factory dates I'll let you know.

On the NAUTOS, I'm not sure of the standard Part No.

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3 minutes ago, WHK said:

I had a Boom Kicker on my J/30 and they do work well with virtually nothing on it to fail.  One precaution is to make sure the crew knows it does not provide the same level of support as a rigid vang.  People have been "surprised" when they lean on the boom and expect it to support them if you don't have a topping lift (or halyard or sail) attached.  It gently launches them over the side :)

10-4, first order of training on our boat is to attach the Main Halyard to the end of the boom when the Main is dropped.

Never lost a crew overboard, Thank God, and hopefully never will.

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4 hours ago, 11233 said:

BTW, let's keep in touch about the factory tour. We have a few moving pieces on the travel schedule right now, but if we can make a trip over there work it would be great to meet up with you guys there!!

We've booked our trip for the week right after the Düsseldorf Boat Show, JAN 29 - FEB 4. We should be in Les Sables d'Olonne WED-THURS-FRI, then in Paris FRI & SAT nights.

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An interesting discussion.  Well done guys!  It sounds like a great journey you are on.  

I'm equally looking for a nice racer/cruiser, IRC, coastal/inshore, generally light winds, LOA <40ft, short-handing essential and not requiring a crack crew in every position to race (often with family onboard). 

Liking the sound of the J112E a lot and it's high on my selection list, along with an XP 38.  An alternative is going down the J111 route, but we may not get the greatest potential out of that boat and the interior would just be on the transition point of the required comfort side.

11233 and TJM.Code - May I ask what other boats, if any, did you have on your comparison list?  I'm currently a happy JBoat owner and like much about the brand and product, but not wedded to them as such.     Any thoughts appreciated.

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8 hours ago, Grinning Ape said:

11233 and TJM.Code - May I ask what other boats, if any, did you have on your comparison list?  I'm currently a happy JBoat owner and like much about the brand and product, but not wedded to them as such.     Any thoughts appreciated.

When I first saw the J/112e announced around DEC 2015 it was exactly what I was looking for... until I saw the price, major sticker shock.

So, for two years I searched for an alternative: a used C&C 110, used C&C 115, and new C&C 30 One Design, a used J/109, a used J/111, a new J/111...

I went so far as to put a deposit down on a new C&C 30 One Design (its such a cool boat), but realized on the water in 18-20kts that she was not the boat for Single/Double Handed (my wife Cathy knew all along but humored me!).

Then we went to Annapolis, saw the J/112e in person, came back the next spring, took a test sail, and I was convinced, this was the perfect boat for me, my friends, and family. She's stiff, stable, seakindly, easily driven, very well rigged, simple, and FAST. On a 18-22kt day we were doing 9-11kts effortlessly just screwing around with cruising sails and a undersized borrowed kite.

I also test sailed a J/111 in Chicago, wow, that's a 'Wet Corvette'. So much fun to drive, amazing carbon rig, tracks upwind like its on rails. But, in heavy air she needs a full crew, light and nimble is not what I want by myself in the middle of Lake Huron in 30kts.

So, I saved my money, sold my old boat, worked harder for few years; and now, I'm getting my dream boat.

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8 hours ago, Grinning Ape said:

11233 and TJM.Code - May I ask what other boats, if any, did you have on your comparison list?  I'm currently a happy JBoat owner and like much about the brand and product, but not wedded to them as such.     Any thoughts appreciated.

One other thing... I followed J/LANCE 12 (the J/Composites 'factory boat') for all of 2017. She's a tricked out 'Grand Prix' version of the J/112e. Look up her race results.

Didier (J/Composites CEO) proved to everyone that this boat can RACE. They won every major IRC event they entered, then sold the boat to Chaz Ivill in the UK (she's now called DAVANTI TYRES), and he's been doing the same there. That was all I had to see to be locked in, we put down our deposit in October.

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Congrates to both of you with the new beauty!    I saw the 112 myself this summer and it looks like a great alround boat.

I'm surprised to read people have issue with the Nautos vang.  On my J/111 the Nautos vang looks like bomb proof and probably the last piece of the rig that will ever break down.

@Blur:  as the Nautos is quite heavy I also thought  about replacing the tubing with carbon.  Not sure if standard tubes are available which are strong enough (for compression).  Also thought about having a layer of glass on the inside to prevent corrosion on the alu end-parts.

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11 hours ago, Grinning Ape said:

An interesting discussion.  Well done guys!  It sounds like a great journey you are on.  

I'm equally looking for a nice racer/cruiser, IRC, coastal/inshore, generally light winds, LOA <40ft, short-handing essential and not requiring a crack crew in every position to race (often with family onboard). 

Liking the sound of the J112E a lot and it's high on my selection list, along with an XP 38.  An alternative is going down the J111 route, but we may not get the greatest potential out of that boat and the interior would just be on the transition point of the required comfort side.

11233 and TJM.Code - May I ask what other boats, if any, did you have on your comparison list?  I'm currently a happy JBoat owner and like much about the brand and product, but not wedded to them as such.     Any thoughts appreciated.

Grinning Ape,

I've owned two boat in my life, a J/109 for over 10 years, and my Jeanneau 41 DS for the last two. Loved the feel and performance of the 109, loved the ease of sailing and luxury of cruising in the 41DS. But what I REALLY wanted was a bit of a mashup between the two. And I also felt the 40' of the Jeanneau was just too big for our needs.

So I started out searching for used boats in the 35-38' range built from 2010 onwards. Most of the boats in this range a squarely in the non-performance cruiser range, (Beneteau, Jeanneau, Hanse, etc...) and a few of them seemed to be in the high performance, non-cruiser range (J/111, Sunfast 3600). To my eyes, boats like the Elan E/S4, X-Yachts Xc35 or XP 38, Dehler 38, Dufour 36P etc...seemed to bridge this gap. The 112E was not even on my radar, until the 122E popped up on a search. While I loved how that was a great combo of a cruiser/racer, it was just too big. But at that point I said "oh look, there is a 36' version of it called the J/112E". The next thing I noticed was there were no used models on the market, which made sense as it was a relatively new boat. As I dug deeper into research on the 112E it just started checking off pretty much every box for me. It seemed too good to be true...that is, until I went out sailing on one for 3 hours. The performance under sail was fantastic, the setup was ideal for single/double handing, and the accommodations belowdeck would work perfectly for our costal cruising. 

One thing I was VERY conscious of was the SA/D ratio. I was trying to find a boat that was light enough to keep the sail area small for shorthanded situations, but heavy enough to handle choppy seas and bad conditions when they arrise. The 112E was in my mind an improvement ove the 109, as it sailed like a much bigger boat but no longer required the 155% Genoa that rally made the 109 perform. Given your list above, I have no doubt this boat should be on your list. Have you sailed one yet??

At that point, as a past J/boat owner my search was over. I cannot say enough good things about my previous J/boat, the local dealer and J/boats themselves, just down the road from me in Newport RI. I stopped my search and pulled the trigger on the 112E. Looking forward to the build process once again, and taking delivery of her in 2018!!

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16 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

When I first saw the J/112e announced around DEC 2015 it was exactly what I was looking for... until I saw the price, major sticker shock.

So, for two years I searched for an alternative: a used C&C 110, used C&C 115, and new C&C 30 One Design, a used J/109, a used J/111, a new J/111...

I went so far as to put a deposit down on a new C&C 30 One Design (its such a cool boat), but realized on the water in 18-20kts that she was not the boat for Single/Double Handed (my wife Cathy knew all along but humored me!).

Then we went to Annapolis, saw the J/112e in person, came back the next spring, took a test sail, and I was convinced, this was the perfect boat for me, my friends, and family. She's stiff, stable, seakindly, easily driven, very well rigged, simple, and FAST. On a 18-22kt day we were doing 9-11kts effortlessly just screwing around with cruising sails and a undersized borrowed kite.

I also test sailed a J/111 in Chicago, wow, that's a 'Wet Corvette'. So much fun to drive, amazing carbon rig, tracks upwind like its on rails. But, in heavy air she needs a full crew, light and nimble is not what I want by myself in the middle of Lake Huron in 30kts.

So, I saved my money, sold my old boat, worked harder for few years; and now, I'm getting my dream boat.

Man, that's great.  I like your thought process, and especially your work ethic. More power to you!  I'm looking forward to following your build's development process.  
    

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16 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

One other thing... I followed J/LANCE 12 (the J/Composites 'factory boat') for all of 2017. She's a tricked out 'Grand Prix' version of the J/112e. Look up her race results.

Didier (J/Composites CEO) proved to everyone that this boat can RACE. They won every major IRC event they entered, then sold the boat to Chaz Ivill in the UK (she's now called DAVANTI TYRES), and he's been doing the same there. That was all I had to see to be locked in, we put down our deposit in October.

Yes, I've been following J/Lance's race progress with interest.  It's the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" approach.   

I know you mentioned that you won't be racing IRC, so just some observations:  

Fully tricked out and optimized for IRC got the rating down from the standard 1.06 to 1.044.  I'm not sure what the relative ratings variance was for the carbon stick penalty versus the fin keel benefit, plus whatever else they had upgraded (new sail dimensions?).  That was with a strong crew as well.  To be fair, they were also racing other factory teams, so the ISAF Group 3 racers should have balanced out.  That should mean a combination of fin keel and standard Alu rig would rate well on a normal IRC playing field, especially given the positive comments that you received regarding the Alu rig.  I note that J/Lance+Davanti has had some stiff competition from well sailed J/109's, which are always tough to beat at IRC ~1.02.  That's a good benchmark for 11233 to calibrate against. 
 

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13 hours ago, 11233 said:

Grinning Ape,

I've owned two boat in my life, a J/109 for over 10 years, and my Jeanneau 41 DS for the last two. Loved the feel and performance of the 109, loved the ease of sailing and luxury of cruising in the 41DS. But what I REALLY wanted was a bit of a mashup between the two. And I also felt the 40' of the Jeanneau was just too big for our needs.

So I started out searching for used boats in the 35-38' range built from 2010 onwards. Most of the boats in this range a squarely in the non-performance cruiser range, (Beneteau, Jeanneau, Hanse, etc...) and a few of them seemed to be in the high performance, non-cruiser range (J/111, Sunfast 3600). To my eyes, boats like the Elan E/S4, X-Yachts Xc35 or XP 38, Dehler 38, Dufour 36P etc...seemed to bridge this gap. The 112E was not even on my radar, until the 122E popped up on a search. While I loved how that was a great combo of a cruiser/racer, it was just too big. But at that point I said "oh look, there is a 36' version of it called the J/112E". The next thing I noticed was there were no used models on the market, which made sense as it was a relatively new boat. As I dug deeper into research on the 112E it just started checking off pretty much every box for me. It seemed too good to be true...that is, until I went out sailing on one for 3 hours. The performance under sail was fantastic, the setup was ideal for single/double handing, and the accommodations belowdeck would work perfectly for our costal cruising. 

One thing I was VERY conscious of was the SA/D ratio. I was trying to find a boat that was light enough to keep the sail area small for shorthanded situations, but heavy enough to handle choppy seas and bad conditions when they arrise. The 112E was in my mind an improvement ove the 109, as it sailed like a much bigger boat but no longer required the 155% Genoa that rally made the 109 perform. Given your list above, I have no doubt this boat should be on your list. Have you sailed one yet??

At that point, as a past J/boat owner my search was over. I cannot say enough good things about my previous J/boat, the local dealer and J/boats themselves, just down the road from me in Newport RI. I stopped my search and pulled the trigger on the 112E. Looking forward to the build process once again, and taking delivery of her in 2018!!

11233,

Many thanks for your thoughts.  The journey is half the fun of this process and you guys are selling it well to me! 

Your list is very similar to what I have been considering and keep circling back to the J/112E, so your post is very timely.  I currently live in Hong Kong but will most likely end up living back in Sydney at some point and will transport any new boat back there.  A recent post on the "J/Boats Australia" FB page shows 2 new J/112E's being delivered this month and another scheduled for January, so a fleet scene could develop there that I may add to in future.  Their FB post makes reference to the potential for "class racing".  However, I imagine that would be in the informal sense rather than any strict OD rules.  Unlikely to get their own class start for a while yet!  

It sounds like an ideal boat for coastal races and Sydney Harbour/Pittwater weekend/twilight racing plus enjoying a few overnight stays.  Being robust enough to sail outside Sydney Heads is an important consideration.  When things get ugly out there, you want to be in good hands!  

In answer to your question - "Have you sailed one yet??"    No.  However, I look forward to doing so soon.  That will require some forward planning as I'd like to do a back-to-back (or as close as possible) against an XP38 and maybe Dehler 38 Competition (though less enthusiastic).  Sydney 38 is a good boat but feeling tired now (+15 years) and I'd rather have a dedicated Asym (if only the Sydney GTS37 went into production, but no longer!).  The J/111 I know well and it's always an interim alternative, especially since the second hand market is now so reasonably priced.  Though there's nothing like the fun of doing your own build!    

In the meantime, I'll be living vicariously through your build updates ;-)

 

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18 hours ago, TJM.CODE said:

One other thing... I followed J/LANCE 12 (the J/Composites 'factory boat') for all of 2017. She's a tricked out 'Grand Prix' version of the J/112e. Look up her race results.

Didier (J/Composites CEO) proved to everyone that this boat can RACE. They won every major IRC event they entered, then sold the boat to Chaz Ivill in the UK (she's now called DAVANTI TYRES), and he's been doing the same there. That was all I had to see to be locked in, we put down our deposit in October.

 

Is this "grand prix'  version actually a better (read: faster) sailing boat or only a (maybe even slower) downgraded version optimized for IRC?

 

 

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2 hours ago, ZeeZee said:

 

Is this "grand prix'  version actually a better (read: faster) sailing boat or only a (maybe even slower) downgraded version optimized for IRC?

 

 

It's defintely an optimized IRC version.

 

They did a few things for a better IRC rating:

1) Removed the Bulb Keel, and went with a Fin.

2) Downsized some sails. 

 

And then they did a lot of things that are not penalized under IRC to improve boat handling and trim:

1) Removed the Furler

2) Added Locking Jib Halyards

3) Added Dual Jib Cunninghams led to the crew on the rail.

4) Added PBO Backstay

5) AddedJib Inhaulers

6) Spec'ed Carbon Mast

etc.

See attached.

J112e - Grand Prix Version - Notes.pdf

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3 hours ago, ZeeZee said:

 

Is this "grand prix'  version actually a better (read: faster) sailing boat or only a (maybe even slower) downgraded version optimized for IRC?

 

 

This particular boat has been finishing ahead of 122s on the water. The fin keel will mean less stability but with a crew of 10 that won't be a problem below 20kts. Currently the only competition to have stopped it's winning streaks has been the jpk 1080

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Rate lower to go faster (in relative terms).
 

I did initially wonder if the intent of paring the IRC rating for J/Lance from the standard spec 1.06 to below 1.05 was to get into the Trans Quadra class.  J/Boats did that specifically with the J/11S (IRC J/111 1.096 down to J/11S 1.050).  However, that would create a very confusing marketing strategy by co-mingling the two boats if both were aimed at that market, which the J/112E is not. 

It's more likely the local cutoff for IRC divisions played a major part in decision making - e.g. Fastnet IRC3 (<1.05) versus IRC2 (>1.05) but more importantly - SPI Ouest IRC 1 starts at 1.06 versus  IRC 2 1.01-1.059.  It's better optics to be seen finishing with line honors in IRC 2 and win on corrected time rather than last across the line in IRC 1 (but still may do well on corrected, though unlikely given this year's results).  Incidentally, the 1.044 rating was exactly the same as the JPK 10.80, driven by none other than JPK himself, so the J/Lance team would have been, and were, very proud of that result! 

Upgrading the J/112E mast+boom to carbon penalty without taking the fin keel lower rating benefit may then start pushing you towards J/111 territory, which would be difficult when the 1 ton lighter J/111 starts planing away from you in the right conditions.  Most RORC races will see the J/112E competing directly against the J/111 and J/122E in IRC Division 2 (1.05-1.10).  This is now a crowded multi-product ratings category for the one brand.  Just a thought. 

It's an academic argument:  The J/112E is not just about playing the ratings game, otherwise you'd likely be looking at different criteria. Though it clearly can, and has, influenced some people's decisions.

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4 hours ago, Grinning Ape said:

A recent post on the "J/Boats Australia" FB page shows 2 new J/112E's being delivered this month and another scheduled for January, so a fleet scene could develop there that I may add to in future.  Their FB post makes reference to the potential for "class racing".  However, I imagine that would be in the informal sense rather than any strict OD rules.  Unlikely to get their own class start for a while yet!

It seems unlikely that any sort of One Design class will be possible with the J/112E. As I recall with the 109, right from the start there were OD rules and the only options (other than a shoal draft keel) did not make the boats all that different from one another. With the 112 having options such as a carbon rig and all of that fancy teak decking, it would appear any sort of homogeneity from boat to boat will be tough to achieve. But the truth is that of the almost 700 race I did with my 109 over the years, less than 5% we One Design, as there were never enough of them in my local area to get us our own start. 

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3 minutes ago, Grinning Ape said:

Upgrading the J/112E mast+boom to carbon penalty without taking the fin keel lower rating benefit may then start pushing you towards J/111 territory, which would be difficult when the 1 ton lighter J/111 starts planing away from you in the right conditions.  Most RORC races would then see the J/112E competing directly against the J/111 and J/122 in IRC division 2.  It would become a crowded multi-product ratings category for the one brand.  Just a thought. 

Agreed. I was talked out of taking the Carbon Rig by Al Johnstone and my salesman Rich Sterns (a competitive sailor) for this very reason.

I spec'ed my J/112e to be 'PHRF/Rating Neutral', I'm relying on the boat's basic design to give me the performance I'm looking for.

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I think one of the key drivers for the "low rating" version was to get J/112e J Lance into Class C at the ORC worlds in Copenhagen. And speaking to the crew there (and being on the water), it performed better than expected with limited horsepower... 

BTW do anyone know if the AG+ carbon boom was retrofitted in the UK, or a J/boats option? Initially, the boat had alu mast/boom.

28531070362_3965f70d05_k.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Blur said:

BTW do anyone know if the AG+ carbon boom was retrofitted in the UK, or a J/boats option? Initially, the boat had alu mast/boom.

Peter, Didier told me in Annapolis that the AG+ Carbon Boom was added to J/LANCE 12 (the second one) as a test of AG+'s ability to build carbon components for J/Composites. They're shooting for the Mast business. AG+ makes the custom Aluminum Mast for the 112, and its very nice, light, bendy, and handles Antal cars or bolt rope with no track.

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On 12/10/2017 at 12:39 AM, Grinning Ape said:

11233 and TJM.Code - May I ask what other boats, if any, did you have on your comparison list?  I'm currently a happy JBoat owner and like much about the brand and product, but not wedded to them as such.     Any thoughts appreciated.

I forgot to mention we were also looking at the Dehler 38 and Dehler 34. The Dehler 38 was more boat than we wanted, the 34--while beautiful and apparenly very well build--was not sporty enough. The owner of the Dehler 38 at the 2016 Annapolis Show set us on the right path however: "You want the ultimate Cruiser and the ulitmate Racer... in the same boat, don't give up."

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