martin.langhoff

Small Asymmetric Spinnaker for Taz

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I sail a couple of Topaz Taz dinghies with my 7yo son. It's a complete blast. We also sail a foiling cat together, and he's getting used to trapezing and asy spinnakers. I've already rigged a homebrew trapeze rig on the Taz, and have a rough idea of how I'd setup a DIY spi chute, fixed pole, etc.

But I'm missing an appropriately sized spinnaker / code 0, ideally something I can get secondhand / cheap from an existing boat. The main has 4.2m2 , and we have limited attachment points so I'd aim for smallish - 3.5m2

Ideas, suggestions? Ideally, I'm looking for something I can search craigslist for, even if I have to get it cut shorter.

To be clear, this is purely for fun, learning and exploration. No class rules apply, we may well sail slower than without, and we'll definitely end up in the drink.

And when the local opti fleet sails by, we'll buzz it with our skiffish sailplan :-)

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19 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

I sail a couple of Topaz Taz dinghies with my 7yo son. It's a complete blast. We also sail a foiling cat together, and he's getting used to trapezing and asy spinnakers. I've already rigged a homebrew trapeze rig on the Taz, and have a rough idea of how I'd setup a DIY spi chute, fixed pole, etc.

But I'm missing an appropriately sized spinnaker / code 0, ideally something I can get secondhand / cheap from an existing boat. The main has 4.2m2 , and we have limited attachment points so I'd aim for smallish - 3.5m2

Ideas, suggestions? Ideally, I'm looking for something I can search craigslist for, even if I have to get it cut shorter.

To be clear, this is purely for fun, learning and exploration. No class rules apply, we may well sail slower than without, and we'll definitely end up in the drink.

And when the local opti fleet sails by, we'll buzz it with our skiffish sailplan :-)

I haven't sailed the Taz, but we have Topaz Unos. They're already WAY faster than the Optis. I test sailed one with the spinnaker kit and it does add some fun. Might have a bigger power blast for somebody weighing half what I do. For thrills, a spinnaker should be at least as big as the main.

FB- Doug

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Snipe jib is light Dacron and about the right size for a Code 0. Already has wire luff. 420 spin can be cut down to be an assy. IDK that mast will handle a big increase in sail area, but wtf go for it.

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LOOK ON E-BAY UK, LOTS OF THEM, WHERE I'VE BROUGHT ALL MINE FROM.

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e-bay UK has a lot of fun small spinnakers, great hint. Looking around I spotted that the UK Mirror dinghy has a (symmetric) spinnaker of about the right surface. Getting closer...

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Try Baconsails.com

They have a massive choice of second-hand sails, you can filter your search by sail dimension (luff, foot, leech) if I remember well.

I bought 3 sails from them over the years, including some tiny spinnakers. I have never been disapponted.

 

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The Australian Manly Junior has what is essentially a small assy or screecher, not sure of the area.

Although it's a mast mounted pole, the tack is permanently attached to the pole and braces while the clue is attached to the sheets.

To gybe, you have to throw the pole around the forestay and clip it to the mast again on the other tack.

You could simply rig it with a fixed pole instead.

The sail is too small to operate as a true assy on the 2 handed MJ but on a single handed junior boat, maybe somewhat better.

http://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-10053-0-0-0&sID=305863

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6 hours ago, kenwstr said:

The Australian Manly Junior has what is essentially a small assy or screecher, not sure of the area.

Although it's a mast mounted pole, the tack is permanently attached to the pole and braces while the clue is attached to the sheets.

To gybe, you have to throw the pole around the forestay and clip it to the mast again on the other tack.

You could simply rig it with a fixed pole instead.

The sail is too small to operate as a true assy on the 2 handed MJ but on a single handed junior boat, maybe somewhat better.

http://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-10053-0-0-0&sID=305863

Is this true of all MJ? I wondering so I looked it up, and it's delightfully like a lot of other dinghy, with a boom mounted bungee, love the idea for a youth dinghy! Wish we did that here in the US

 

 

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7 hours ago, kenwstr said:

The Australian Manly Junior has what is essentially a small assy or screecher, not sure of the area.

Love it! Looks like the area is small (2.2 / 2.5m?), which is ideal for my goals. Problem is, I can't find them in ebay au, gumtree nor trading post. Some clubs have their own online boards, but it's generally whole boats. The Manly Yacht Club (oh what a name!) doesn't have links. North Sails says there's too much variation so each MJ sail is custom.

@kenwstr do you know where to search further? Are you in Australia? 

@Laurent baconsails is excellent! Still, sails it has are way large for my goals.

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Yes I am in Australia.  I sailed a MJ "Tangara"  out of Oak Flats SC NSW around the turn of the 60s-70s.  A lot has changed since.  The boats look essentially the same shape, but were plywood back then.  I thought from the pics that the spinnaker arrangement looked the same but from the video is obviously different now.  It was definitely an assy cut back in the day with 2 braces on the tack and 2 sheets on the clue.  You couldn't jibe by the method shown in the video but had to throw the pole around the fore-stay to the lee side, jibe and then reset the pole.  They all seemed to be that way then, at least that's my memory.  I don't have anything to do with them these days of course.  You could try contacting the class association.  Some associations run a swap and sell page.  It was a popular class originally intended as a trainer to move youth into the Sydney skiffs.

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What about a ra feva chute?  small frac assym on a short spirit.  Should be easier to locate in gb

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@Locus Googling around, I find that RS Feva Spinnaker area‎: ‎73 sq ft (6.8 m2). We're discussing kites, ideally asy, of 2.5m2 to 4.5m2.

The Taz has 4.5m2 on the main, and about 1.5m2 jib. We're shooting for some madness, but still there's limits to what boat and crew can carry.

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

@Locus Googling around, I find that RS Feva Spinnaker area‎: ‎73 sq ft (6.8 m2). We're discussing kites, ideally asy, of 2.5m2 to 4.5m2.

The Taz has 4.5m2 on the main, and about 1.5m2 jib. We're shooting for some madness, but still there's limits to what boat and crew can carry.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't sure how large it is,  but since it looks like you will be cutting down a spin it might be a good place to start

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@ortegakid - cool idea. Still, couple sizes too big. 

So far, I have a couple of leads with second hand symmetricals for Mirror Dinghies, and a couple of interesting asymmetricals from Jeckells ( http://jeckells.co.uk/ ). I have measured the boat, the candidate sails all fit... I have a spin pole (fixed - bowsprit) and a plan on how to rig it all up. A little Xmas project.

Our young sailor here has been making cards for Santa asking for an asy; and I've been telling him that if he delivers, we'll have to be crafty to figure out how to rig it on the Taz and make it all go. He's stoked. As am I.

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YOU NEED SEE HOW MX SPIN HALYARD AND RETRIEVAL WORKED, CAN SHARE DIAGRAM IF NEED, BRILLIANT.

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@ortegakid - sure! I am interested. I spotted somewhere that the mx-next has "reverse purchase" so a short pull gets it all the way up. Is that what you're talking about?

I have a good reference from the continuous halyard-dousing line setup in my Whisper catamaran, but it is simple and straightforward... 

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YES, WAS 1-2, SO TWO PULLS AT MOST ALL WAY UP, WILL FIND DOCUMENT AND SHARE TO YA.

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Santa brought a spinnaker that fits the boat just right, and we fabbed the missing bits in carbon fiber ourselves :-)

First sail today! We're thrilled to bits. Couple of things to improve -- spinnaker chute is too small, one of the sheet blocks came off, but we'll be at it again tomorrow. All around us the Orange Bowl crowd in their cookie cutter boats couldn't peel their eyes off ours. Ha!

 

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Well done on getting it all together.  My only suggestion is try moving the sheet block more aft.  This will open up and flatten the leech, giving the kite an assy profile while reducing heeling moment and drag.  The boat will go faster and stay upright easier.

Ken

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Thanks @kenwstr!

Sailed again today. Still a few things to sort out.

The spin pole setup is a winner, I fabbed it from a bit of PVC pipe, carbon fiber, and a carbon tube from ebay. OTOH, the spinnaker chute, fabbed from hose, carbon fiber and an Ikea bag is just not working, so I have to come up with a plan B. The reinforcement pad in the spinnaker where the dousing line gets attached is stiff and has a very large diameter. It just doesn't fit; and it doesn't want to "turn the corner".

The cam cleats need a riser, so they set/cleat easier. I'll probably fab that in carbon.

The spinnaker sheet block is not in the ideal position. I need to experiment more and see it sailing in different angles, but I think @kenwstr is right, and needs to move aft. I have a plan on how to do that without adding holes, but'll take some fiddling. 

We get some line tangled, so we'll shorten some lines, perhaps add some bungee takeups.

Cannot add reverse ratios, because the boat owner has just the right strength to hoist it (and not enough to douse it with this crap chute). Maybe in a couple years.

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Several upgrades, most notable a newly done spinnaker chute bag in laminate + velcro self-adhesive tape... 

 

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