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southerncross

Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Only someone who has never read or understood a history book would pretend there has ever been equality in sailing (or life, or any sport, or...)

That's like the people who complain that black folks getting more aid for their neighborhood's schools than rich white neighborhoods is "reverse racism".  It shows a total lack of understanding of history and how it effects the present.  

There should be NO equality until women have at least some semblance of being able to compete on a level playing field with men.  Get back to me when we're at that point, and we can talk about the poor men who are now being abused by Dee and her team.

In response to "Basic fairness, premise of equality"

> there has ever been equality in sailing (or life, or any sport, or...) 

Indeed and we should try support efforts to reduce this on all fronts.  Out reach programs for sailing seem obvious, affirmative action absolutely, reparations seem due in some cases ... but lets not ignore equal protection under the law, or R69 in this case.  We can never undo an injustice done to a group by committing or accepting injustice against an individual.  

 

 

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9 minutes ago, mrcottonwood said:

but lets not ignore equal protection under the law, or R69 in this case.  We can never undo an injustice done to a group by committing or accepting injustice against an individual.  

 

 

Well stated.

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7 hours ago, mad said:

I wonder how many of the jury are wishing they'd never been dragged into this little debacle, they're decision is going to come under a large amount of scrutiny and possibly set the benchmark for future cases.

That's exactly what happened recently at our club - the jury for hearing a rule 69 all ran away when they realised that this has implications outside of the sport. Deformation can be expensive to defend and even more so to lose. 

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27 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Unless you were onboard, you do not know the banter that went on when the camera were not filming. I have no opinion on Witt and a teenage daughter because I do not know what he is like and if she was old enough to go sailing, I'm sure she could make her own mind up whether she wants to listen to his jokes.

 

This. We simply don't know the context outside the video, in my case I don't know the people involved. Don't know the social dynamics aboard. Not my place to decide who should be offended and who was ott offensive. Jesus,  racing to Bermuda one time the topic of conversation for two days was constipation. We even made up some horrible ditties about it. While posting a video on social media would have been tasteless, it's hardly rule 69 material. Some peep just have nothing better to do than seek perpetual outrage. 

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

On transparency…

At SHK Scallywag, etc

Also in:   http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/9601_The-world-according-to-David-Witt.html   

On his first memory of the Volvo Ocean Race…

Actually, a current Volvo Ocean Race legend, Neal McDonald, introduced me to the race back in 1993. It was the first time I’d seen this event, and as a skiff sailor from Australia, I remember being really inspired by it. I realised it was a whole other way of life. I then went on to do part of the race on board Innovation Kvaerner in 1997-98. The fact that I haven’t done the whole thing is one of the attractions of doing this for me. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do, but I’m pretty headstrong and I can’t put up with a lot of the more political, corporate crap that goes on in some campaigns, which is why I haven’t been involved until now. This time, I get to do things my way.

 

Worth a (re)-read methinks. Just an honest, open, ...blunt guy, a sailor who loves the sport.

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6 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

That's exactly what happened recently at our club - the jury for hearing a rule 69 all ran away when they realised that this has implications outside of the sport. Deformation can be expensive to defend and even more so to lose. 

More info, if you would. Curious if you got a chance to ask them why,  "Legalities" often seems a catchphrase, like when IT guys/ governments throw out "security" . 

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47 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I hope my daughter will be open minded and not have her head messed up by left wing feminist teachers.

:face palm: 

:sigh:

:face palm:

omg...

 

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Not a female opinion but nevertheless:

Overall, everyone is very nice on board with me. I came across a good team! But I do not think there is a bad team. On the first leg, I was on Team Sun Hung Kai / Scallywag skippered by David Witt, an Australian boat that, a priori, was not obvious. After a week with them, I did not want to leave!

Jérémy Lecaudey is a cameraman-editor specializing in outdoor sports, especially on the world tour of Kitesurfing and skiing. He prepared mainly with the Dongfeng teams and Dee Caffari's Turn The Tide on Plastic .

http://voileactu.blog.lemonde.fr/2017/12/07/a-bord-de-dongfeng-nom-de-code-obr/

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2 hours ago, southerncross said:

Bouwe the bad boy?

Reportedly, as EDIO Mr Doerr received at least two complaints. We have a copy of the first complaint from a Mr Alex Haworth. We do not know the gentleman nor his nationality. Mr Haworth's complaint named Bouwe Bekking of Team Brunel and Mr Witt, not Mr Hayles. The complaint against Mr Bekking stemmed from this 14 Oct 17 BBC article. The complaint against Mr Witt was for a post to the Scallywag team's Facebook page, long since removed, and for this 4 July 17 article on the VOR website. The complaint was only links to articles with no discussion or argumentation as to why the articles rose to the level of Rule 69 "misconduct." 

https://www.sailingillustrated.com/single-post/2017/12/07/VOR-Rule-69-protest-has-been-dismissed-on-a-number-of-grounds

Just read the BBC link that was the so-called basis for the Bouwe Bekking complaint. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/sailing/41510271

This is a fucking ridiculous situation for the sport and it’s ruling body to be in if this is warranted for every single complaint. 

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7 minutes ago, mad said:

This is a fucking ridiculous situation for the sport and it’s ruling body to be in if this is warranted for every single complaint.

One way to turn it on it's ridiculous head would be to flood the WS with a ridiculous number of unsubstantiated complaints.

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

Just read the BBC link that was the so-called basis for the Bouwe Bekking complaint. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/sailing/41510271

This is a fucking ridiculous situation for the sport and it’s ruling body to be in if this is warranted for every single complaint. 

This entire thread has been filled with overreactions as ridiculous as the Anglo-American focused culture war nonsense that probably contributed to the Haworth. And also a over hysterical response to the jury meeting as if we're creating some ad hoc tribunal court in the Hague to deal with war criminals. Expenses, random numbers, blah blah blah.

 

Keep making complaints. No one will turn down an opportunity to write off expenses to visit Auckland, Hong Kong in the coming legs. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

LOL, she's really grasping at straws to justify her fauxrage. And we've already learned it's based solely on not liking the skipper. 

She??

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

Just read the BBC link that was the so-called basis for the Bouwe Bekking complaint. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/sailing/41510271

This is a fucking ridiculous situation for the sport and it’s ruling body to be in if this is warranted for every single complaint. 

Nice find Mad. 

Quote

"We have two fantastic ladies on board and we can be really happy with the team we have put together," he said. "Everybody is now just the same."

Ehler and Lush were part of the first all-female crew for 25 years to win a leg of the race when Team SCA won the eighth leg of the 2014-15 event.

And the former has been appointed "boat captain" by Bekking - a role which means she is responsible for all technical aspects of the boat, as well as the safety equipment.

Bekking believes the changes are generally positive as they "get more girls interested in the sport", but says teams were not consulted beforehand.

"We weren't asked about the rule changes but you just have to live with their decision and take it on the chin," he said.

"For Volvo, they have to sell cars and trucks. Around half of the world's population is female so if you have more females in the race, they have more attention for their products. 

"It's a pure marketing thing. Will it work out? We will see."

Race director Phil Lawrence said: "We're determined to maintain our female presence in the race.

Bouwe handled the situation right--sorry he got caught up in the dragnet of the 69er. 

Sheesh--the skill set needed to race at this level. Keeping a team together through social and southern storms. Toughest test of a team indeed. 

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9 hours ago, random said:

Fuck mate, it's about Witty's actions, nothing to do with whether AB felt threatened. 

What was that...?  Did you just say something...?  For 647th fucking time...

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1 hour ago, SOSOS said:

I'll tell you why I think Witt is wrong in this case and would be wary of letting my daughter anywhere near him (not that you asked). The issue to me is not whether he was crass but that he was doing it from a position of power on the boat and that the woman who it was directed at (or near) was below him in the pecking order. Had she been the owner and he the bowman, he can say whatever he wants and she can kick him off the boat if she's offended. In this circumstance, whether she's offended doesn't matter and if she is she's stuck putting up with it for another 1000 miles at least. The power structure is what most sexual harassment issues stem from, not what was said.

And that could very well apply to the rest of the (male) crew as well!! And I’m really not sure where you’re going with your owner/bowman straw man argument. 

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Hadn't heard that particular phrase, thanks.  Googled to see if it was similar to the  "signed. shocked and appalled" mostly heard here.

Huh. Cat videos. no thanks.

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1 hour ago, stief said:

More info, if you would. Curious if you got a chance to ask them why,  "Legalities" often seems a catchphrase, like when IT guys/ governments throw out "security" . 

Search for the Brisbane to Keppel race thread on this board. I guess it is that being found guilty of rule 69 breach hurts ones reputation outside of the sport and those conducting these kangaroo courts are generally unqualified to do so. So their finding could wind up in a real court. 

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Does this mean we can get back to funny jokes and real people on board ....?  Can't wait till the next skit from Humphrey B Bear or Dr Clogs

Ok folks .. move away, nothing to see here

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52 minutes ago, southerncross said:

One way to turn it on it's ridiculous head would be to flood the WS with a ridiculous number of unsubstantiated complaints.

Exactly, this could be just the start of malicious accusations. But maybe all involved should seek some serious legal advice before embarking down this path!!!

 

Quote

The recent case of Willers v Joyce [1] has broadened the long-established boundaries of the tort of malicious prosecution.  Previously available only in relation to criminal claims, this case now offers a brand new cause of action for a defendant who has suffered as a result of the malicious prosecution of civilproceedings against it, for which there was no reasonable and probable cause.

https://www.walkermorris.co.uk/publications/malicious-prosecution-civil-proceedings-new-option-victims-malicious-claims/

 

I have absolutely no legal training or affiliation. But it’s not difficult to see the mine field that people are potentially walking into. 

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

Search for the Brisbane to Keppel race thread on this board. I guess it is that being found guilty of rule 69 breach hurts ones reputation outside of the sport and those conducting these kangaroo courts are generally unqualified to do so. So their finding could wind up in a real court. 

Thanks. Will do. Hadn't heard of Coady before this thread either. 

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5 minutes ago, stief said:

Hadn't heard that particular phrase, thanks.  Googled to see if it was similar to the  "signed. shocked and appalled" mostly heard here.

Huh. Cat videos. no thanks.

Cat videos.?? :blink:

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1 hour ago, EvaOdland said:

 

:face palm: 

:sigh:

:face palm:

omg...

 

Yeah,  posting good things, and then getting mixed up sometimes. 

Happens to most of us here...

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Just now, mad said:

Well that wasn’t my link! :lol::lol:

Right--I was looking for the canadian equivalent ("shocked and appalled, I thought)  to "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" , which I hadn't heard of. Thought you'd get a laugh out of the result.

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3 hours ago, EvaOdland said:

Well some sort of line was of drawn in something that resembles sand in a flooding tide...a process developed, tested, hated, condemned, rejected, ignored, forgotten... 

The tether light is off and you are now free to swing your dicks about the cabin.

 

 

image.jpg

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3 hours ago, random said:

Fucking funny how the WS process and those involved in it has been bagged relentlessly here.  But now they will all be good.

 

image.jpg

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2 hours ago, SOSOS said:

I'll tell you why I think Witt is wrong in this case and would be wary of letting my daughter anywhere near him (not that you asked). The issue to me is not whether he was crass but that he was doing it from a position of power on the boat and that the woman who it was directed at (or near) was below him in the pecking order. Had she been the owner and he the bowman, he can say whatever he wants and she can kick him off the boat if she's offended. In this circumstance, whether she's offended doesn't matter and if she is she's stuck putting up with it for another 1000 miles at least. The power structure is what most sexual harassment issues stem from, not what was said.

And yet those of your elk find it completely acceptable that your children are taught at school that it is fine for boys to use the girls toilet and encouraged to try homosexuality. And You are so proud of your views that you use a sock puppet to post them. 

Grow a pair.

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16 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

And yet those of your elk find it completely acceptable that your children are taught at school that it is fine for boys to use the girls toilet and encouraged to try homosexuality. And You are so proud of your views that you use a sock puppet to post them. 

Grow a pair.

I’m thinking of patenting the latest in forum technology, how does the LB15 TrollSniffer sound?

We might to review that name, it needs a good acronym, that’s the secret. 

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Quote

"For Volvo, they have to sell cars and trucks. Around half of the world's population is female so if you have more females in the race, they have more attention for their products.

 

Yes this has serious implications for Volvo in the market place. Volvo station wagons are the number one choice of soccer mums worldwide - not just for their  great safety record but for their spacious interiors, having plenty of room up front for the kids, and the Labrador and  room in the back for the groceries and pick up hubbies beer on the way home.  tough yet stylish enough to drop hubby of at the yacht club in. Great rear view mirror for touching up the makeup before picking up hubby. Remember girls he has worked hard all week so make that extra effort so both the car and you are looking at your best when you go to get him and his mates from the pub. 

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

 

Yes this has serious implications for Volvo in the market place. Volvo station wagons are the number one choice of soccer mums worldwide - not just for their  great safety record but for their spacious interiors, having plenty of room up front for the kids, and the Labrador and  room in the back for the groceries and pick up hubbies beer on the way home.  tough yet stylish enough to drop hubby of at the yacht club in. Great rear view mirror for touching up the makeup before picking up hubby. Remember girls he has worked hard all week so make that extra effort so both the car and you are looking at your best when you go to get him and his mates from the pub. 

Well played!

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31 minutes ago, random said:

 

The hearing has come and gone ... but this stench is still here!

Screenshot from 2017-12-06 14-56-16.png

Welcome to the Randumb breakfast show....we were going to talk about how to apply cream to Randumb's tiny balls but he just wants the skipper to give them a sniff. He seeks attention in strange ways.

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One of the things that has come out of this is despite some saying the rule 69 process is deeply flawed and even some healthy scepticism, the system actually worked rather well. A complaint was made, there was  no cover up, the complaint was properly examined and it was dismissed. Whatever you think of Dawn Riley and anybody else who filed a complaint, I think they would have had far more grounds for real complaint about if their case had not been investigated at all, which is what I think many would have preferred. 

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4 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

One of the things that has come out of this is despite some saying the rule 69 process is deeply flawed and even some healthy scepticism, the system actually worked rather well. A complaint was made, there was  no cover up, the complaint was properly examined and it was dismissed. Whatever you think of Dawn Riley and anybody else who filed a complaint, I think they would have had far more grounds for real complaint about if their case had not been investigated at all, which is what I think many would have preferred. 

If they react like this for every complaint, the IJs will retire rich and some races will be bankrupt in a years time. 

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8 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

One of the things that has come out of this is despite some saying the rule 69 process is deeply flawed and even some healthy scepticism, the system actually worked rather well. A complaint was made, there was  no cover up, the complaint was properly examined and it was dismissed. Whatever you think of Dawn Riley and anybody else who filed a complaint, I think they would have had far more grounds for real complaint about if their case had not been investigated at all, which is what I think many would have preferred. 

I think it’s a difficult rule but it’s also nice to have it. 

I also think that the teams will have it in mind and think things through, they will all try to avoid getting protested. So Dawn Riley and everybody else who agreed with her will have made an effect. And that’s ok. 

Hopefully the effect won’t be that all we get is boring videos...but if I was Witt now, I’d upload a couple of videos of them just eating, not saying anything. Vendée style (its late, I don’t remember the old mans name but he was hilarious). Just to make a little fun about this rather serious matter :) 

 

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8 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

but if I was Witt now, I’d upload a couple of videos of them just eating, not saying anything. Vendée style (its late, I don’t remember the old mans name but he was hilarious). Just to make a little fun about this rather serious matter :) 

That would be pretty funny and if the took an entirely different "very proper" tact in the whole thing.

"I say Witt, old man, would you mind passing the salve for the dangly bits?"

"Oh, certainly, 'ol sport.  Spot of tea with that?'

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11 minutes ago, random said:

Why?  The point has been made.  The video is still there.  The sea-bogan has been highlighted for what he is and will no doubt be more careful about the content of his breakfast shows now.

No one seriously believed that anything more than ask for an apology would have been requested anyway.

No one seriously believed anything you posted. Witt has been exonerated, your side of the discussion lost and common sense has prevailed. Time now for you to return to your more sensible crusades like proving that the republican party flew the planes into the world trade center and that the sea level is rising. 

Arseclown.

 

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So to all those that wanted Witt's head turn your anger to the SA Editor..! 

Quote Front Page "

Thank christ cooler heads prevailed in the ludicrous VOR Rule 69 protest lodged against Scallywag was dismissed. As we understand it, Dawn Riley (and perhaps others) filed a complaint at the World Yacht Racing Forum last week about said “incident”. That went to World Sailing, as there is a new procedure for all WS sanctioned events, where basically anyone can file a complaint and it has to get investigated.

That’s what happened here. As we understand it, nobody involved in this edition of the race, from VOR to the teams, etc. filed a complaint.

Now let’s hope this gives pause to the politically correct, hand-wringing people who want to over legislate this sport to their nanny state ideal. Get back to sailing and quit worrying about what “bad words” other people are saying. Especially when it has nothing to do with you, Dawn Riley. "

I'd say well said..! WTF is the world coming too..

 

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I love the Volvo logo. Clearly the strong association with the male symbol drives soccer mums crazy with desire. Chicks dig a mans man.

New-Volvo-Logo-emblem.jpg

 

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13 minutes ago, random said:

Why?  The point has been made.  The video is still there.  The sea-bogan has been highlighted for what he is and will no doubt be more careful about the content of his breakfast shows now.

No one seriously believed that anything more than ask for an apology would have been requested anyway.

giphy.webp

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Dee and Witt formed a sort of bond while battling it out at the back.  There's even a video somewhere of Dee suggesting they get a drink when it was over to catch up and compare notes.

Good thing for Witt it seems.

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4 hours ago, Christian said:

Maybe you need to get over yourself.  

Already is all over himself.........

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12 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

giphy (3).gif

I have ordered one ambulance for both of them, then going to the same institution.

The end result might be a lot of fun, or not... 

Image result for tantrum baby

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

I hope my daughter will be open minded and not have her head messed up by left wing feminist teachers.

 

1 hour ago, hoppy said:

What's your problem?

I will make sure that she knows she is equal or even better than men and that she can do anything she sets her mind to. But I don't want her mind fucked up by a man hating femisist misandrists.

Sorry, but I am losing you here.

As I read it you say you don't want your daughter's mind fucked up by YOU.  Surely, I am reading this wrong ?

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

One of the things that has come out of this is despite some saying the rule 69 process is deeply flawed and even some healthy scepticism, the system actually worked rather well.

It has actually shown the system is busted and in bits. The sailing community, many who wouldn't know a 69er if they fell over it until now, have collectively had a "what the fuck moment".

Hopefully, though probably unlikely this also extends to World Sailing. Surely, even for them the penny dropped has dropped and they have come to the realisation that they can't gallop around the world fucking with people's rights, thinking they are immune from the laws of the land. In this case putting people's livelehoods on the line off the back of unrelated 3rd party frivolous complaints.

I await with interest to see if Dawn Riley has the guts to stick her head up above the parapet now and justify her actions with a bunch of weasel words.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I await with interest to see if Dawn Riley has the guts to stick her head up above the parapet now and justify her actions with a bunch of weasel words.

Am looking forward to it !!!

 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Volvo station wagons are the number one choice of soccer mums worldwide

LB since when did they start calling Pussywagons ..Volvo Station Wagons?

unnamed (10).gif

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I believe the thing about Swedes preferring to get laid in their cars is on account they don't trust their handiwork with their IKEA beds and the leftover bits.

images (43).jpeg

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14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

It has actually shown the system is busted and in bits. The sailing community, many who wouldn't know a 69er if they fell over it until now, have collectively had a "what the fuck moment".

I have a very different take on it.You need to be really dumb if you don't think that WS has a process or rules against bringing the sport into disrepute and therefore rule 69 should come as no surprise, even if you haven't heard of it before.Every other sport I know has such clauses (English football managers manage to fall foul of this sort of rule all the time at press conferences!). What everybody now knows is that there is a system and it works. The evidence for it working is that it dismissed the case.

19 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hopefully, though probably unlikely this also extends to World Sailing. Surely, even for them the penny dropped has dropped and they have come to the realisation that they can't gallop around the world fucking with people's rights, thinking they are immune from the laws of the land. In this case putting people's livelehoods on the line off the back of unrelated 3rd party frivolous complaints.

3rd party complaints, when it is about something like a video placed in a public domain, are not unreasonable and need to be allowed. Consider an extreme situation (that will not happen). The OBR records crew members having sex and that is posted. Nobody involved with the race does anything. Surely a 3rd part complaint would be reasonable. If you accept that impossible and mildly absurd case at one end of the spectrum and what you call a 3rd party frivolous complaint at the other end, surely there has to be a place for 3rd party complaints.

Then the question is who decides the complaint is frivolous.  That decision must be seen to be made in a fair and reasonable manner and I cannot see how that can be done by one person with no legal training. In other words, you do need an IJ. Also, in this case, while I don't personally think this situation warranted a rule 69 sanction, I don't find it frivolous as it related to what is acceptable for public broadcast. This case was made harder because from what has been said, i do not believe that the complaint came from just one person. Press reports suggests at least one other besides Riley, while pub talk suggests there were 4 or 5 complaints.

I don't believe that WS had any other option but to convene an IJ to look at it. 

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1 minute ago, Team_GBR said:

I have a very different take on it.You need to be really dumb if you don't think that WS has a process or rules against bringing the sport into disrepute and therefore rule 69 should come as no surprise, even if you haven't heard of it before.Every other sport I know has such clauses (English football managers manage to fall foul of this sort of rule all the time at press conferences!). What everybody now knows is that there is a system and it works. The evidence for it working is that it dismissed the case.

3rd party complaints, when it is about something like a video placed in a public domain, are not unreasonable and need to be allowed. Consider an extreme situation (that will not happen). The OBR records crew members having sex and that is posted. Nobody involved with the race does anything. Surely a 3rd part complaint would be reasonable. If you accept that impossible and mildly absurd case at one end of the spectrum and what you call a 3rd party frivolous complaint at the other end, surely there has to be a place for 3rd party complaints.

Then the question is who decides the complaint is frivolous.  That decision must be seen to be made in a fair and reasonable manner and I cannot see how that can be done by one person with no legal training. In other words, you do need an IJ. Also, in this case, while I don't personally think this situation warranted a rule 69 sanction, I don't find it frivolous as it related to what is acceptable for public broadcast. This case was made harder because from what has been said, i do not believe that the complaint came from just one person. Press reports suggests at least one other besides Riley, while pub talk suggests there were 4 or 5 complaints.

I don't believe that WS had any other option but to convene an IJ to look at it. 

so you said,

and said, 

and said, 

and said....

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7 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I have a very different take on it...

But first do you mind coming back to us on that when you have your car up and going.

images (44).jpeg

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24 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

 

  That decision must be seen to be made in a fair and reasonable manner and I cannot see how that can be done by one person with no legal training. In other words, you do need an IJ.

Questions of sexual harrassment should be decided by people with no legal training other than their sailing judging?

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Actually Jack they don't gallop round the world, they only get involved (as I understand) when it is a World Sailing sanctioned event. For example when David Witt faced a Rule 69 hearing in Hong Kong regarding a open 'club race' World Sailing had no involvement.

Just saying

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On 06/12/2017 at 12:13 PM, Team_GBR said:

Seriously, WTF do International Jurors in the sport of sailing know about this sort of thing? It doesn't matter what your view of the rights or wrongs of this case, the people deciding it are unlikely to have any experience in the matter making the whole process a farce.

The Flip and the Flop...

2 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

One of the things that has come out of this is despite some saying the rule 69 process is deeply flawed and even some healthy scepticism, the system actually worked rather well. A complaint was made, there was  no cover up, the complaint was properly examined and it was dismissed.

You were dead right first time.

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9 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Questions of sexual harrassment should be decided by people with no legal training other than their sailing judging?

What? Using the word scrotum in a silly skit is sexual harassment? If AB said the word uterus in a skit would she be sexually harassing the guys? 

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Just now, RKoch said:

What? Using the word scrotum in a silly skit is sexual harassment? If AB said the word breasts in a skit would she be sexually harassing the guys? 

Better equivalent.  Can be viewed clinically or sexually.

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2 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Actually Jack they don't gallop round the world, they only get involved (as I understand) when it is a World Sailing sanctioned event.

I was being metaphoric Shang... WS rules encompass the world in the context of my comment they are being applied and enforced with disregard to other laws. For instance the 49'r girl and her discrimination case, this being in my mind anyway a workplace matter etc.

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

What? Using the word scrotum in a silly skit is sexual harassment? If AB said the word uterus in a skit would she be sexually harassing the guys? 

I think the correct term would be 'taint'

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15 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Questions of sexual harrassment should be decided by people with no legal training other than their sailing judging?

I agree Mr Clean. Some rules hearings are all about SAILING RULES, even most Rule 69 hearings.

However, when a case is not, for example, an incident on the race course involving one or two boats then surely, just as in a 'normal' court of law, experts should be called upon.

SS

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I was being metaphoric Shang... WS rules encompass the world in the context of my comment they are being applied and enforced with disregard to other laws. For instance the 49'r girl and her discrimination case, this being in my mind anyway a workplace matter etc.

Now I see your point

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So when does the breakaway world sailing organisation start?

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Questions of sexual harrassment should be decided by people with no legal training other than their sailing judging?

Was this a case about sexual harassment or was it about whether a crass skit brought the sport into disrepute?   If it was the former, I agree with you and had made that point before, but if it was the latter, which is what I believe they really ruled on, isn't an IJ as good an authority as any? In other sports, it is usually a committee of "elders" who rule on this sort of thing, so sailing seems no different.

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1 hour ago, random said:

Looks like the Neanderthals are still bleating the same as they were before the hearing.

Rationally most know that Witty crossed the line, but they need to form a circle jerk to reassure each other that it is OK to hold the line, talk each other up, have a hug-and tug.

Calm down boys, the sky has not fallen for the rich old white cunts, it's just fractured, that's all.

No little flower the hearing has shown that the only line that witty crossed was the finishing line. I hope my little downvoting fun didn't contribute to this meltdown you are having. Why are you taking this so hard - you are always wrong and everyone already knew you were an arseclown...

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A kind soul sent me this link to a Yachting World report on the protest being dismissed. This interesting extract and a titbit at the end is highlighted for the benefit of the handwringers and or interlectually challenged.

"The video incident is not the first time David Witt has been at the centre of controversy. Before the race he was widely quoted as saying that he planned to sail with seven men only, because he considered the crew allocation rules a ‘social experiment’.

Before the race start in Alicante, Witt told Yachting World he was “100 per cent misquoted”, adding: “What I said was, I think the rule is terrible, that I’m not supportive of the rule. I think it’s ridiculous there’s a boat left in the shed and there’s not an all-women in the race.

“I’ve had women sailing on my boat for the last 15 years, and there are more women sailing in this race that have sailed with me in campaigns outside the Volvo Race than any other person in the race.”

http://www.yachtingworld.com/news/misconduct-charges-dropped-against-volvo-ocean-race-skipper-while-navigator-steps-down-111350#FfMYZBJCIqAhscqc.99

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

Was this a case about sexual harassment or was it about whether a crass skit brought the sport into disrepute?   If it was the former, I agree with you and had made that point before, but if it was the latter, which is what I believe they really ruled on, isn't an IJ as good an authority as any? In other sports, it is usually a committee of "elders" who rule on this sort of thing, so sailing seems no different.

No I think the purse clutches have taken the right for sports to deal with this kind of shit away from themselves. In matters like this that could have real world legal consequences any offended snowflake that is unhappy with the sports outcome will be encouraged by a lawyer to take it to a real court crying they were denied procedural fairness (as it is know here). Next thing you know the sport is on the cover of the newspaper and the real damage to the sport begins. The biggest risk to participation from this matter is heaps of young girls not taking up sailing because of the number of pussified snowflakes they see commenting.

A rare win for commonsense! Stick that up your arse Randumb.

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No Random I don't follow the thread 24/7 unlike others in this place, like yourself. I do have a life outside of this place and come here for the comic relief, especially that provided by your prime adversary. He's been on a good roll lately and long may it continue.

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I was looking forward to a full hearing and Witt pleading the skiff sailor defence....

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14 minutes ago, random said:

Fuck knows I have tried and failed.

Indeed fuck does. Everyone knows.

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3 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

I was looking forward to a full hearing and Witt pleading the skiff sailor defence....

Yes we cut our skiffle mates some slack as well. 

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Random,

I am looking at upgrading my wife's Volvo. I advised Volvo of this issue and told them unless what I consider to be a trivial and overblown issue was dumped, I wanted nothing to do with their brand. 

They rang me to let me know the outcome . 

Wasnt that a despicable act, using commercial influence on the sponsor as a means to put my view across? Thought I'd let you know so you can be morally disgusted with me. 

Thank god you aren't in my sailing scene, none of us would be game to say a word for fear of upsetting your moral principles, which seem to be completely out of kilter with my reality at least. 

Cheers,

SB 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Random,

I am looking at upgrading my wife's Volvo. I advised Volvo of this issue and told them unless what I consider to be a trivial and overblown issue was dumped, I wanted nothing to do with their brand. 

They rang me to let me know the outcome . 

Wasnt that a despicable act, using commercial influence on the sponsor as a means to put my view across? Thought I'd let you know so you can be morally disgusted with me. 

Thank god you aren't in my sailing scene, none of us would be game to say a word for fear of upsetting your moral principles, which seem to be completely out of kilter with my reality at least. 

Cheers,

SB 

 

 

Maybe Randumb can be convinced to leave the bay and do next years 70 B2G race? It would make the piss up even more fun than usual. Maybe we can get him to stick around for the Mad Monday lunchon. If he is in by then of course. He may have to rush off to protest the fleet for not having holding tanks passing Lady Elliot green zone. 

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I have heard through the grapevine that Witty is keen to keep the Breakfast Show format alive, but go incognito in case Dawn is watching.

IMG_20171208_151019.jpg

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Random can you please change your profile "Captain Goodvibes"would be very disappointed that such a person as you are besmirching his reputation.

 

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5 minutes ago, random said:

Ok ok you have finally convinced me.

The only way to deal with possible sexual harassment is to claim that 'she liked it'.

The appropriate response to the women who protested is to say that 'she has a fat ass'.

Keep up the good work guys!  Fucking awesome stuff your female fiends and family are proud of you I'm sure.

you have plenty of time to think about your misogynistic ways ,  while sailing your RC 1/2ksb on the local pond . you may even get a high five from another troll on shore after he see's the trim of your jib boom !

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Can we please get back to sailing? Today is the in-port and Sunday leg 3 then maybe we can discuss what this site is supposed to be all about.

See ya on the water!

Just sayin

'SS

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15 minutes ago, random said:

But she fucking liked it!  She put the beard on and shit!  I'm sure that the fact that Witty was the boat boss and could sack her if she didn't laugh at his jokes had absolutely nothing to do with her cooperation.  That's bullshit!  Keep up the good work guys awesome stuff.

And how the fuck can Dawn Riley be taken seriously when she has a fat ass?  I mean seriously!  I didn't realise that before, thanks guys!

And the full meltdown is finally happening.
Took a while though - probably the effect of LB's downvotes. Snowflakes don't deal well with that :lol:

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2 hours ago, random said:

Done to death mate.

Not sure if you have caught up with the thread, but the protest had nothing to do with anyone being offended.  Someone considered Witty's actions were bringing the sport into disrepute.

Please try to keep up.

randumb are there power blackouts interrupting your treatment or has Nurse Ratchet got the voltage dialed up too high??

Dawny is Offended by Incident > Dawny tells RO (& WYRF Audience) > RO Tells VOR EDIO > EDIO Investigates > EDIO concludes a IJ R69 Disrepute Hearing Req’d > EDIO advises IJ > IJ Convene > IJ Declare Incident is horseshit > randumbs head explodes
 

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