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Thisbe_8Can9

Melges IC-37 Chosen as new platform for Canada's Cup Match racing regattas

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The Royal Canadian Yacht Club is proposing to use the Melges IC-37 as the next platform for the Canada's Cup.  The cup will be sailed in 2020, 2022 and 2024 at the RCYC and is a match race between the USA and Canada.  In the past various classes and designs have been used which were all designed to a rule and not strict one designs with the only exception being four challenges in Farr 40's.  With the strict class rules already in place for this new class is this the right boat for the Canada's Cup?

I like what I am seeing from the behind the scenes pictures of the building of the plug and mold and it will be a great boat for the NYYC Invitational regattas but will it be a boat that develops followers outside of these events?

Thoughts? Opinions?  I know you have them.

http://www.melgesic37class.com/news/2017/9/19/behind-the-scenes

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OD is great for the Olympics and class championships (obviously), but for these types of challenges, I prefer that a design element becomes part of the equation.

No pros and a form of nationality requirements would be nice too.

Probably a pipe dream, but my choice would be to use the 12 mR class - to replace the America's Cup as the showcase for this class - but likely cost prohibitive.

Barring that, 8 mR  or even 6mR would be my second choice given their history in the area. 

Finally, maybe a couple of the more radical IOR board boats that competed in the Canada's Cup could be replicated (Aggressive II and Evergreen)  Would be odd, but pretty cool IMO

But that's just the opinion of a geezer.

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31 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

OD is great for the Olympics and class championships (obviously), but for these types of challenges, I prefer that a design element becomes part of the equation.

No pros and a form of nationality requirements would be nice too.

Probably a pipe dream, but my choice would be to use the 12 mR class - to replace the America's Cup as the showcase for this class - but likely cost prohibitive.

Barring that, 8 mR  or even 6mR would be my second choice given their history in the area. 

Finally, maybe a couple of the more radical IOR board boats that competed in the Canada's Cup could be replicated (Aggressive II and Evergreen)  Would be odd, but pretty cool IMO

But that's just the opinion of a geezer.

Totally agree with the fun thoughts here.......you should all read Doug Hunter's book  Against the Odds  which  discloses a lot about  CC  and  RCYC   and the concept of design and development with Evergreen.     Perhaps ask  Andy Wiggers about working with Brendan Dobroth and building Coug etc  and coping with the design / build issues.     I think the Melges  is an adequate toy for OD types but CC needs something to make it stand out from a simple Regatta.     Design / build  is what separates  the ordinary from the extraordinary.     Its pitiful when the RCYC members become so poverty stricken that they have to try to reduce the CC  to something no one will care about.   Pitiful actually.     But boy they  have lots of money to do $7million worth of renovations to bricks and mortar.     Perhaps they should rename themselves as the  RCBuildingsClub  instead.

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35 minutes ago, GC&GC said:

Totally agree with the fun thoughts here.......you should all read Doug Hunter's book  Against the Odds  which  discloses a lot about  CC  and  RCYC   and the concept of design and development with Evergreen.     Perhaps ask  Andy Wiggers about working with Brendan Dobroth and building Coug etc  and coping with the design / build issues.     I think the Melges  is an adequate toy for OD types but CC needs something to make it stand out from a simple Regatta.     Design / build  is what separates  the ordinary from the extraordinary.     Its pitiful when the RCYC members become so poverty stricken that they have to try to reduce the CC  to something no one will care about.   Pitiful actually.     But boy they  have lots of money to do $7million worth of renovations to bricks and mortar.     Perhaps they should rename themselves as the  RCBuildingsClub  instead.

Building on those thoughts, I always thought it would be interesting to see what designers could do with IOR today...if they eliminated elements of IOR most deleterious to performance, such as: DLF, CGF, and SHR.  Also allow full length battens.  I'm fairly confident the resultant designs would be lighter, stiffer, with more SA than their predecessors. 

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2 hours ago, 12 metre said:

OD is great for the Olympics and class championships (obviously), but for these types of challenges, I prefer that a design element becomes part of the equation.

No pros and a form of nationality requirements would be nice too.

Probably a pipe dream, but my choice would be to use the 12 mR class - to replace the America's Cup as the showcase for this class - but likely cost prohibitive.

Barring that, 8 mR  or even 6mR would be my second choice given their history in the area. 

Finally, maybe a couple of the more radical IOR board boats that competed in the Canada's Cup could be replicated (Aggressive II and Evergreen)  Would be odd, but pretty cool IMO

But that's just the opinion of a geezer.

While I would love to see 8's or 6's in the Canada's Cup the reality is that there isn't much interest in those boats, there are I believe six modern 8's at three clubs on Lake Ontario with rumors of a seventh boat in Europe and none on any of the other great lakes and to the best of my knowledge there are no 6mR of any kind on Lake Ontario. Also I am fairly certain that the last modern 8 to be built for Lake Ontario was likely launched in the early 1990's.

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i know Andy Wiggers built a lovely R boat not long ago........beautiful boat.......

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39 minutes ago, GC&GC said:

i know Andy Wiggers built a lovely R boat not long ago........beautiful boat.......

Renegade was and is a beautiful boat but it has been somewhere around thirty years since she was launched.

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26 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Renegade was and is a beautiful boat but it has been somewhere around thirty years since she was launched.

Mate, when you have Alzheimer's, thirty years ago could have been tomorrow. 

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R boat built by Wiggers 1987........Designer Theut/Flood........called Renegade.......30 years ago........time flies when you are having fun and not hating people.......

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Will the lifelines and stanchions be easy to remove?

The Congressional Cup Catalina 37s realized much less damage in close match racing when they started derigging the lifelines for top tier events.

 

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13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

While I would love to see 8's or 6's in the Canada's Cup the reality is that there isn't much interest in those boats, there are I believe six modern 8's at three clubs on Lake Ontario with rumors of a seventh boat in Europe and none on any of the other great lakes and to the best of my knowledge there are no 6mR of any kind on Lake Ontario. Also I am fairly certain that the last modern 8 to be built for Lake Ontario was likely launched in the early 1990's.

not entirely true. The CC last year was sailed in 8mr yachts. The main problem with these yachts is that the Canadian/North American have more modern 8mr yachts, whereas the European fleets are more classics (2nd and 3rd rule). Canada now has Hollandia, which has been worldchamp for a while now. but the 2 competing boats at the canada's cup, were both imported from Europe (UK and NL).  I would have loved to see the 8's continue with this race as it brings forward development in the yachts beyond the fleetracing updates that generally happen. 

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10 minutes ago, JMOD said:

not entirely true. The CC last year was sailed in 8mr yachts. The main problem with these yachts is that the Canadian/North American have more modern 8mr yachts, whereas the European fleets are more classics (2nd and 3rd rule). Canada now has Hollandia, which has been worldchamp for a while now. but the 2 competing boats at the canada's cup, were both imported from Europe (UK and NL).  I would have loved to see the 8's continue with this race as it brings forward development in the yachts beyond the fleetracing updates that generally happen. 

8mr yachts are beautiful, but probably not the right boat to get people excited about the future.  The IC37 platform seems like a pretty natural fit and should encourage some close match racing.

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I quite enjoyed the throwback 8 metre action in the last Cup and think the choice of boat qualified as distinguished from your 'average' regatta. As a spectator sport for the average sportsfan I doubt match racing ever moves beyond chess, but if the boats look great on the water and at the dock it generates a bit of buzz(America's Cup got a wider audience talking about the foilers). 

But hey, time marches on and these boats seem like a decent choice.

As far as mounting a 2 or 3 boat training and racing campaign with the Melges, that wouldn't be entirely cheap for the impoverished punter(s) who step up. 

I like the mention of a nationality requirement on both teams. 

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Rather than be a "me too" race, make it distinctive. 

Ontario (and the Great Lakes) have had long standing "R" and 8mR fleets.

They are intrinsically "pretty" boats, with a traditional look and feel. 

Why not capitalize on that, and choose either Universal or International rules, and build in modern materials, without restriction. 

An R boat in Carbon fiber with a Depleted Uranium bulb would be both lovely to look at and very fast to sail... 

Toss in an overnight distance race with minimal offshore safety gear to keep the boats a bit sane, perhaps even tie it into LYRA and have the Freeman be the distance course, with in port racing before/afterwards to give a spectator mass. 

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1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

Why not capitalize on that, and choose either Universal or International rules, and build in modern materials, without restriction. 

An R boat in Carbon fiber with a Depleted Uranium bulb would be both lovely to look at and very fast to sail... 

That and unlimited spinnaker dimensions.

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Just now, Ozzy said:

That and unlimited spinnaker dimensions.

I vaguely recall that "Vitesse" R3 had a ~ 15' pole on a ~10' J and the spinnaker width was gynormous.  End for end gybes without lifelines was good sport at age 18. 

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great ideas guys......would love to see it....... but it won't happen because of   money  money  money  money   money   money  ......  I don't know about your clubs but the  RCYC  has no money to match the  great old days of  design / build.     It is a pity but it is real.

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3 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

An R boat in Carbon fiber with a Depleted Uranium bulb would be both lovely to look at and very fast to sail... 

Yes, if you think 6.4 knots is fast

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Just now, in_TO said:

Yes, if you think 6.4 knots is fast

7.8 dead down wind in 12 knots of wind.

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If you want "fast", just sail in February and put it on blades...

If you want to have an interesting race, that spectators can identify with, and that they can actually "see" then 8 kts is fine. 

 

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in sailboat racing it is not an issue of top speed........it is relative speed as between the  racers........if two racers are going 30 and 30.1 knots the differential is the same as going 6.4 and 6.5 knots......if not,   why would anybody bother racing........

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I'm all for open classes in principle but I think you saw the reality in the 8mR challenge of 2016 - no new boats were built for that competition.  Metre-rule boats generally are pretty mature designs where resources are probably better spent tweaking and training existing boats rather than designing and building for the same $$$.

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6 hours ago, GC&GC said:

in sailboat racing it is not an issue of top speed........it is relative speed as between the  racers........if two racers are going 30 and 30.1 knots the differential is the same as going 6.4 and 6.5 knots......if not,   why would anybody bother racing........

what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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^^^^^^^^^^ That is sanity.  Find a US dance partner and then define the challenge or you are just jacking off.  

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1 hour ago, Laserty said:

what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

+1

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49 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Conclusion, Canadians want to make masturbation an international sport.

Dont for a moment think that fuckwit,  dave, speaks for any of us.

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49 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Conclusion, Canadians men and women from all over the world want to make masturbation an international sport with in-depth coverage on TSN.

FIFY

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15 hours ago, Laserty said:

what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

WTF?  With the exception of his math being off, GC was absolutely correct. Your argument is just as bad as the shitty Adam Sandler movie you quoted. 

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On 12/1/2017 at 12:33 PM, GC&GC said:

.....if not,   why would anybody bother racing........

How about because it is proper fun? At least thats what it is meant to be. Dinosaur 

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22 hours ago, Monkey said:

WTF?  With the exception of his math being off, GC was absolutely correct. Your argument is just as bad as the shitty Adam Sandler movie you quoted. 

It’s hard to soar with the eagles when you’re surrounded by turkeys. 

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On 11/30/2017 at 4:50 PM, GC&GC said:

 Its pitiful when the RCYC members become so poverty stricken that they have to try to reduce the CC  to something no one will care about.   Pitiful actually.     

very few have cared about the CC for a decade, if not much longer.  something is better than nothing?

 

 

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you may have a point there Clean.........but it was so much more fun when you had new designs to drool over on both sides........using  Melges  OD"s  doesn't cut it.......

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Why dont you put together a team, dave? Surely you have the cash just sitting around,  and there must be people who are willing to sail with you.

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I liked the 8's to race the CC. would be nice if they continued. but indeed, they have not built new boats and beating Hollandia would be tricky for most of the 8's , but especially for Yquem, which would only be competitive in the heaviest of weathers. I would have chosen Juanita or Miss U as competitive yachts.


I like one design racing, or racing in competitive box rules. the Change to ic37's for sure it's a good thing. it comes down to tactics and teamwork. For match racing, you just need 2 similar boats. But I like it when the team is put under pressure and have a shitload to do under heavy loads like on mr yachts. this puts the true emphasis on teamwork and performing under pressure, whereas the simplicity of more modern yachts put the emphasis on speed and placement of the yacht. I like sailing in both styles though. so yes, I will follow the Canada's cup

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On 11/30/2017 at 3:34 PM, Cal20sailor said:

If RCYC loses in 2020, why would they host in 2022 or 2024?  

They host every year, 2020, 2022 and 2024 regardless of who wins or looses.  The trophy goes to the winning club. 

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9 hours ago, GC&GC said:

you may have a point there Clean.........but it was so much more fun when you had new designs to drool over on both sides........using  Melges  OD"s  doesn't cut it.......

yeah but that was a lifetime ago.  When was the last CC design challenge?

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Bucky...

I think it should be done in GP classes, preferably GP42s.  There have been good developments in the class, and there are a number of good boats available now to be used as training platforms.  The boat is a perfect size to sail on the great lakes, and are also a natural fit with the ORC Worlds at NYYC in 2020.  The GP classes will allow for a design factor, while still keeping the boats in a narrow band.  Of course, under ORC, race management is critical, which could be a challenge...

I dunno, maybe my bias is showing.  

P

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8 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

yeah but that was a lifetime ago.  When was the last CC design challenge?

i think back in the mid '80's.......Brendan Dobroth design called Coug  built by Wiggers ( twice I think).......time flies........

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9 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

yeah but that was a lifetime ago.  When was the last CC design challenge?

1994 in MORC 30s.  USA's Champion Eagle (N/M) over Canada's Absolute (Dobroth).

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On 12/1/2017 at 10:49 PM, Cal20sailor said:

Conclusion, Canadians want to make masturbation an international sport.

If it's a spectator sport I think the US could put up a good team of household names...

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3 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

1994 in MORC 30s.  USA's Champion Eagle (N/M) over Canada's Absolute (Dobroth).

You sure about that mate? Our man dave thinks it was coug in the mid 80s.

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28 minutes ago, basketcase said:

You sure about that mate? Our man dave thinks it was coug in the mid 80s.

Whatever he wants to call himself today, he's wrong again.  Just wait for it, next he'll come back with some snotty diatribe about 30'ers being pissant,.

 

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13 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

yeah but that was a lifetime ago.  When was the last CC design challenge?

1994 when they did it in MORC Maxi 30's.  

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I completely forgot the little boats.......didn't they do that series in the City Club indoor pool ?

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2 minutes ago, GC&GC said:

I completely forgot the little boats.......didn't they do that series in the City Club indoor pool ?

No worries dave, we understand that you are going through a bit of a hard time with your dementia. Chin up, dinosaur. 

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The 30's still have the most participation going for them as well. We had 4 boats in the Canadian series and BYC had 3 boats. There was a lot of $$ thrown at that cup, 4 new boats built, Lots of keel, rudder and rig mods done to the older boats. Finals was Hans Fogh against Larry Klein. The US finals was Larry vs T Hutch. Its to bad that it the boats were deemed not prestigious enough, because I think if they did another cycle in them it would have continued to grow. But it did not and it laid stagnet for several yeas and then the Farr 40's came along.

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7 hours ago, GC&GC said:

i think back in the mid '80's.......Brendan Dobroth design called Coug  built by Wiggers ( twice I think).......time flies........

The '81 Coug was a Peterson.  The '84 Coug II was Dobroth.  Last of the IOR boats was '88 which was sailed in One Tons (Challenge 88 def. Steadfast AT&T)

crashdog's suggestion of GP 42 might be the best suggestion for those wanting a design element in the picture.  Would be good for class exposure and kind of fits in well size wise with the boats from the heydays of CC.  

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7 hours ago, CriticalPath said:

1994 in MORC 30s.  USA's Champion Eagle (N/M) over Canada's Absolute (Dobroth).

alright, so it's been one-design for a monkey's lifetime

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31 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

The '81 Coug was a Peterson.  The '84 Coug II was Dobroth.  Last of the IOR boats was '88 which was sailed in One Tons (Challenge 88 def. Steadfast AT&T)

crashdog's suggestion of GP 42 might be the best suggestion for those wanting a design element in the picture.  Would be good for class exposure and kind of fits in well size wise with the boats from the heydays of CC.  

GP42 class is dead and buried tho

could do Fast 40s

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what is the difference between a Fast 40 and Melges 37  in concept.    One design and essentially blown up dinghies.     How do they do a 3 day long distance race without being charged by the UN  with child abuse or sailor genocide?    I would prefer the 8's or upgrade to 12's for the majestic aspect.     Big dinghies have no go forward family value  and television only likes close racing with minor speed differentials......tacking duels sell.......run away drag races on small  boats does not sell.    you don't want run away acceleration if you want to create a revenue based following.  Both boats have to be in the camera frame.     If you want to keep your family together and involved,    there has to be something to talk about to make it worthwhile. .   Something to aspire to acquiring  for your family's enjoyment   before you get the lawyer's letter and are reduced to a one bdrm apt and a row boat.

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2 hours ago, GC&GC said:

what is the difference between a Fast 40 and Melges 37  in concept.    One design and essentially blown up dinghies.     How do they do a 3 day long distance race without being charged by the UN  with child abuse or sailor genocide?    I would prefer the 8's or upgrade to 12's for the majestic aspect.     Big dinghies have no go forward family value  and television only likes close racing with minor speed differentials......tacking duels sell.......run away drag races on small  boats does not sell.    you don't want run away acceleration if you want to create a revenue based following.  Both boats have to be in the camera frame.     If you want to keep your family together and involved,    there has to be something to talk about to make it worthwhile. .   Something to aspire to acquiring  for your family's enjoyment   before you get the lawyer's letter and are reduced to a one bdrm apt and a row boat.

You really have no idea, do you dave? Dinosaur 

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Next schedule cup is in 2020. 

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On 12/4/2017 at 5:46 PM, GC&GC said:

what is the difference between a Fast 40 and Melges 37  in concept.    

One is fast, the other one is a Melges

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Seriously? who really gives a flying fuck about this meaningless cup after all these years? Slow boats. Designed boats. what the fuck ever boats. Near as I can tell, there are, at most, 100 people who care about the freaking CC. The only people I've heard mutter this rivalry are IOR or MORC has-beens who simply want bragging rights for their failing local yacht clubs. Good Lord, lets focus our energies on something that will actually move the needle… I am. and have been for more than a decade, moving on...

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4 hours ago, S291sailor said:

Seriously? who really gives a flying fuck about this meaningless cup after all these years? Slow boats. Designed boats. what the fuck ever boats. Near as I can tell, there are, at most, 100 people who care about the freaking CC. The only people I've heard mutter this rivalry are IOR or MORC has-beens who simply want bragging rights for their failing local yacht clubs. Good Lord, lets focus our energies on something that will actually move the needle… I am. and have been for more than a decade, moving on...

Because tearing up the lakes in an S2 is so relevant. 

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This is a great move and the quickest way to get an event like the CC up and running again. When you decide to go with OD production boats, you're able to run the event more frequently and with much less hassle. The CC does not need to be the AC.

If you're going to go the OD, production boat route, why not teams of three? IC-37, J/105 and Tartan 10?

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8 hours ago, S291sailor said:

Seriously? who really gives a flying fuck about this meaningless cup after all these years? Slow boats. Designed boats. what the fuck ever boats. Near as I can tell, there are, at most, 100 people who care about the freaking CC. The only people I've heard mutter this rivalry are IOR or MORC has-beens who simply want bragging rights for their failing local yacht clubs. Good Lord, lets focus our energies on something that will actually move the needle… I am. and have been for more than a decade, moving on...

Your watchword  needs changing....".....by humble example. "   ........  S,  stop blowing kisses to yourself in your favourite mirror ...........  

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2 hours ago, GC&GC said:

Your watchword  needs changing....".....by humble example. "   ........  S,  stop blowing kisses to yourself in your favourite mirror ...........  

He is not far from wrong, dave.

Fucking dinosaur 

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It's all about relevance.  For the last event it was tied in with the 8m world cup.  So for that specific year it was appropriate for the RCYC. it wasn't appropriate for any other club that cared about match racing, but for the RCYC it made a lot of the senior members happy.  The boats themselves are atrocious for MR.  The driver has virtually no visibility to what's going on, and the boats are so miss-matched that in the last cup there could have only been one winner.  The H-Team did a very good job sailing the boat, however, in the finals, the only way to lose was for the rig to come down... and then the spare rig to come down... then for the boat to sink.

The idea of bringing 12's to Toronto, BYC, or CYC is just asinine.  If you think that bringing in that size of boat with a enormous crew contingent is good idea for this event than you should really just go sit in a corner and continue watching "Murder She Wrote".   Also brought up is the design element.  On the great lakes, is there any design racing happening? The reality is that is just not part of the sport, unless you are ocean racing on something like a TP52 or the like.  

In the last 5 cups the two largest complaints from participants is the lack of awareness (a.k.a schedule) and communication.  It looks to be that those issues are well on the way to being on the right track.  Not perfect, but so much better than what they were before.

The boat selected looks to be (IMHO) a very good step in the right direction.  It's a "sporty" boat that will have decent performance up and down.  It doesn't look like it will get onto a full step down hill, so that will help to keep the racing a little tighter.  The crew #'s are manageable, and there are some good rules about incorporating women and youth.  The price tag is manageable, but not excessive.  It is also a boat that fits the needs of many club and weekend racers.

The way to get back to being relevant is to be progressive not regressive. Choosing a platform that people aspire to be part of will drive interest and participation.  No one wants to watch or participate for the CC in T-10's, J105's, or B36.7s but hopefully the choices made by the CC committee will advance the cup for the next 8 - 10 years.  Not to mention having more clubs being able to properly challenge to compete in the NYYC invitational is a nice side bonus.

My biggest negative with the 37's is a deal breaker for many programs.

With no paid pro's on board, it's my opinion that this will dramatically reduce the amount of interested competitors.  Imagine our friend "Bob" has a active race program, he has a few boats, some big, some small, but he has a very good network of C1 and C3's that he likes to sail with. Bob is exactly the kind of owner that should be attracted to the CC.   Bob has a favorite pro, lets call him "Mike",  Bob and Mike sit down and talk about the next year or two.  Mike suggests to Bob a very good series of events, 10 - 12 a year where he knows he will get paid well, and he and Bob will have a good chance of success.  Bob trusts Mike and relies on him for a good portion of the planning and logistics of his sailing team.  Mike handles everything involved with the crew, but isn't such a great (Mr. Fixit) boat guy, so that is why "Steve" is on the roster as the Boat Captain.  There is no way Mike will suggest anything to do with the CC because he knows that he cant sail and therefore wont get paid.  In reality he will actively push Bob not to do the CC so his workload stays reasonable.  The rules right now say that Bob can sail with Steve (he cant trim or call tactics but can be on the boat), but he cant sail with Mike, his "go to" guy.  Mike is going to suggest Bob goes to another event.  Bob will listen to Mike.

I know there are Corinthian programs out there, but lets look at the reality.  The programs that are willing to spend the money on this kind of event are generally not Corinthian.  For the Toronto market it is one thing, because T.O. generally isn't very favorable to pro's.  Where as many of the US markets rely very heavily on pro's to help get them around the course and hopefully win a regatta or two.

 

Change the pro rules to 2 per boat and I think this format is a winner.  

 

 

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The first one to create fire wins. Or, how about a wheel chiseling contest, followed by a down hill race? Also to be considered, and equally compelling: we could dig up both Captain Alexander Cuthbert and  Captain Josephus Williams and throw them out of a RCAF CC-177 Globemaster III and see which one hits the ground first?   

Otherwise, newer hull designs please.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hammer said:

The boat selected looks to be (IMHO) a very good step in the right direction.  It's a "sporty" boat that will have decent performance up and down.  It doesn't look like it will get onto a full step down hill, so that will help to keep the racing a little tighter.  The crew #'s are manageable, and there are some good rules about incorporating women and youth.  The price tag is manageable, but not excessive.  It is also a boat that fits the needs of many club and weekend racers.

The way to get back to being relevant is to be progressive not regressive. Choosing a platform that people aspire to be part of will drive interest and participation.  No one wants to watch or participate for the CC in T-10's, J105's, or B36.7s but hopefully the choices made by the CC committee will advance the cup for the next 8 - 10 years.  Not to mention having more clubs being able to properly challenge to compete in the NYYC invitational is a nice side bonus.

My biggest negative with the 37's is a deal breaker for many programs.

With no paid pro's on board, it's my opinion that this will dramatically reduce the amount of interested competitors.  Imagine our friend "Bob" has a active race program, he has a few boats, some big, some small, but he has a very good network of C1 and C3's that he likes to sail with. Bob is exactly the kind of owner that should be attracted to the CC.   Bob has a favorite pro, lets call him "Mike",  Bob and Mike sit down and talk about the next year or two.  Mike suggests to Bob a very good series of events, 10 - 12 a year where he knows he will get paid well, and he and Bob will have a good chance of success.  Bob trusts Mike and relies on him for a good portion of the planning and logistics of his sailing team.  Mike handles everything involved with the crew, but isn't such a great (Mr. Fixit) boat guy, so that is why "Steve" is on the roster as the Boat Captain.  There is no way Mike will suggest anything to do with the CC because he knows that he cant sail and therefore wont get paid.  In reality he will actively push Bob not to do the CC so his workload stays reasonable.  The rules right now say that Bob can sail with Steve (he cant trim or call tactics but can be on the boat), but he cant sail with Mike, his "go to" guy.  Mike is going to suggest Bob goes to another event.  Bob will listen to Mike.

I know there are Corinthian programs out there, but lets look at the reality.  The programs that are willing to spend the money on this kind of event are generally not Corinthian.  For the Toronto market it is one thing, because T.O. generally isn't very favorable to pro's.  Where as many of the US markets rely very heavily on pro's to help get them around the course and hopefully win a regatta or two.

 

Change the pro rules to 2 per boat and I think this format is a winner.  

 

 

Lets not forget that "Mike" is a Sailmaker from some other company then North, now not only can he not sail on the boat but his good customer is going to be spending $40-60K on sails from his competitor. I totally agree with Hammer here, 2 pro's and open sailmaker. Then maybe I will work on getting a client or two into this.

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36 minutes ago, Peacefrog said:

Lets not forget that "Mike" is a Sailmaker from some other company then North, now not only can he not sail on the boat but his good customer is going to be spending $40-60K on sails from his competitor. I totally agree with Hammer here, 2 pro's and open sailmaker. Then maybe I will work on getting a client or two into this.

Spoken like a selfish cunt. You are the problem with the sport.

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"For the Toronto market it is one thing, because T.O. generally isn't very favorable to pro's.  Where as many of the US markets rely very heavily on pro's to help get them around the course and hopefully win a regatta or two."

Well, isn't someone feeling special.

 

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