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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
duncan (the other one)

VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

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The boats are already equipped with a yellow brick tracker in case of a capsize , but in any case, the data has already been transmitted to Alicante, so  no need for another transmission.

btw, the playback track data is sitting on all our computers, but encrypted. Stan honey and SiFi have known for years how to extract it for analysis.

the teams asked for fewer updates on the boats this edition 

Pushing the data to the fans is not a technical issue. Only thing I can guess for the manpower is on the team side. Staffing for more frequent analysis coming out of the RC might be an issue. Maybe to keep  team costs down? Bruno Dubois mentioned in the Live a few days ago he oversees a staff of 40.

So, perhaps the next argument we’ll hear is that too much team manpower is needed to analyze the data. 

Ñeti might be look like he’s playing the game, but maybe he’s actually analyzing the VORG data routes :lol:

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4 minutes ago, stief said:

So, perhaps the next argument we’ll hear is that too much team manpower is needed to analyze the data.

Right. Maybe it's more about restricting data to the teams than it is to the fans.

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Leg 4, Melbourne to Hong Kong, day 11, sunrise on board Vestas 11th Hour

brings ominous rain clouds, which after a night of consistent sailing and steady gains, risks everything.

Photo by Amory Ross/Volvo Ocean Race. 11 January, 2018.

Screen Shot 2018-01-12 at 12.04.16 AM.png

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13 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

Meanwhile, Annemieke tells how she felt about the rule 69 issue

Her own opinion about it is all I care about, and she wasn't offended by the video, only by how people claimed that she must have been.

 

Like many here opined, she states:

“.. I don’t see any issue about it. Some people do, and I think we must respect them of course but it is surprising me that people from outside can initiate a Rule 69 protest."

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2 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

I think they have more important things to worry about than listening to the clown posse here

You'd be surprised.

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30 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

...but it is surprising me that people from outside can initiate a Rule 69 protest."

The recent amendments were in part drafted to facilitate exactly that. Protests being settled in the carpark was obviously at the front of their mind.

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:

Speculating as to why not more frequent updates.  I think the teams get a clearer picture in real or nearer real time than than they do pouring over old data.

I really have no idea.  Just a guess.

Since there is no channel back from the shore teams to the boats during the leg it doesn't matter how often they get tracker data to analyze.

It might be easier to compare boat performances by the shore team for preparation of the next leg when they get live tracker since it might be easier to correlate weather, ... with the tracker info. But also this should be marginal.

Also the manpower argument for live is nonsense in my opinion. I could understand technical limitations (e.g. cpu power for longer period, ...) or cost (a lot more data transferred to the internet and companies usually don't have data flatrates as home users).

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe a big call but I'm thinking Capey might try a Buffalo as those in front squeeze themselves more left as a group than they really want to as apposed to staying right if they were alone.

So much for that theory....the lads out to the right are in the glue.. if they are not cranked up at next update that will give the insiders a big jump.

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13 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Seems like there's no getting out of this.

As always prudent minds separate climate from weather. But it sure seems like the warmer temperatures, particularly ocean temperatures, this year is working wonders. 

Hopefully that doesn't mean the high pressures buffer the southern ocean lows from gradually mixing and we end up with April disaster at Cape Horn. 

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1 hour ago, Elisa said:

Who said Doldrums are boring? That is another surprising tracker update. :lol:

Not often we see negative VMG figures. Even at those single-digit numbers, when combined with the positives, that's very quick separation. As you say, Elisa far from boring.

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On the subject of updates, I think a big problem in the discussion is the false dichotomy between the tracker going live and timely updates.

In fact I suspect there may be a bit of deliberate avoiding the question in the VOR office here.  We are told (more than once) that the manpower to be live is too great to keep up and so we must live with 6 hour updates. This is avoiding the question. We are not asking for live updates for the entire race. We are asking for the six hour update rate to come down to something that allows us to see what is happening.  This isn't Formula 1, we don't need ten second updates.  We would be deliriously happy with hourly updates. 

So the question/request/plea to the VOR office is not about having the tracker live.  It is - Please can we have updates every hour?

It is hard for them to duck that. 

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12 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

On the subject of updates, I think a big problem in the discussion is the false dichotomy between the tracker going live and timely updates.

In fact I suspect there may be a bit of deliberate avoiding the question in the VOR office here.  We are told (more than once) that the manpower to be live is too great to keep up and so we must live with 6 hour updates. This is avoiding the question. We are not asking for live updates for the entire race. We are asking for the six hour update rate to come down to something that allows us to see what is happening.  This isn't Formula 1, we don't need ten second updates.  We would be deliriously happy with hourly updates. 

So the question/request/plea to the VOR office is not about having the tracker live.  It is - Please can we have updates every hour?

It is hard for them to duck that. 

We had 3hr updates last edition, still not clear to me why that was not kept on board this round. Would already be a substantial improvement IMHO. 

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Leg 4, Melbourne to Hong Kong, Day 11 onboard Turn the Tide on Plastic.

More drama unfolding as we try and push northwards in rhe super light wind and Brunel appeared on our stern through the storm clouds they came sailing out......

Photo by Brian Carlin/Volvo Ocean Race. 12 January, 2018.

Screen Shot 2018-01-12 at 4.06.13 AM.png

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3 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Do you think their compasses have gone wrong with the change to the Northern Hemisphere? Some of them are going 180 degrees the wrong way :ph34r:

Ah yes, but do notice that the two fastest reported speeds are Chinese. Mind control to major Tom.

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5 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Leg 4, Melbourne to Hong Kong, Day 11 onboard Turn the Tide on Plastic.

More drama unfolding as we try and push northwards in rhe super light wind and Brunel appeared on our stern through the storm clouds they came sailing out......

Photo by Brian Carlin/Volvo Ocean Race. 12 January, 2018.

Screen Shot 2018-01-12 at 4.06.13 AM.png

Pot au noir for sure.

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32 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Leg 4, Melbourne to Hong Kong, Day 11 onboard Turn the Tide on Plastic.

More drama unfolding as we try and push northwards in rhe super light wind and Brunel appeared on our stern through the storm clouds they came sailing out......

Photo by Brian Carlin/Volvo Ocean Race. 12 January, 2018.

Screen Shot 2018-01-12 at 4.06.13 AM.png

Beautiful dramatic pic! 

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3 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

I think a big problem in the discussion is the false dichotomy between the tracker going live and timely updates.

Fuck Francesca can we use laungage fools like me here can understand like say "bullshit difference". The Rhodes Scholar door is down the hallway. :-)

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15 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe a big call but I'm thinking Capey might try a Buffalo as those in front squeeze themselves more left as a group than they really want to as apposed to staying right if they were alone.

 

Right is good...fuck Capey don't you own a record player with this bit of vinyl in your collection?

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Well they can enjoy their day in the lead again but I know where I'd rather be...and that ain't where they are.  Vestas, Akzo & Dongfeng in stronger position with wind filling in from north east. However in saying that, looking at Forss's tracker they all come together again between Taiwan & Philippines so once they get into more constant breeze it's game on and full on drag race.

Fascinating.

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Very hard to believe they will find the height to get over the mess that lies in front of them before the rest of the fleet rolls them. 

Still a bit of a lottery out there, but you would be betting on being as far north as you could be to improve your odds.

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25 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

Still a bit of a lottery out there, but you would be betting on being as far north as you could be to improve your odds.

Francesca for an English Professor you are finally starting to make sense. Capey had a chance of stardom and blew it..then again I'm sitting in a air-conditioned saloon with the twins just chewing the fat..not mine of course, the sun ain't down yet for hours here.

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1 hour ago, albanyguy said:

However in saying that, looking at Forss's tracker they all come together again between Taiwan & Philippines

My guess is the deltas when they converge there will be truckloads and it won't favour those who went for the early and lefty "off-ramp".

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13 hours ago, Miffy said:

I think the revised game plan was for them to alternate on legs going forward. But the raw material coming off the boat makes it seem so diff a boat. 

Besides the navigation work, Brian getting a pair of binoculars and watching MAPFRE? Not many better analysts who can compare setups and chalk down diff modes. 

Unlike others with strange egos, Brian the sort of guy who'll take out the whipping kit and mark the haylards for you to tell you how to replicate speed. 

Nico and Brian are on board for the next leg. Martin taking a break.

Yes, Brian has brought a different dimension, but the team have been moving themselves forward quite dramatically since the start of the race, so it is by no means all down to him.  Dee was very clear before the start that if they could stop the losses during the day 3-4 of the leg then they would be in the hunt, and that was when the broke East with DFRT.  I am 100% certain that some of the youngsters are stars of the future. 

Brian is probably more involved on deck, but don't think that the team being closer to the leaders is all down to him. He is a very similar character to Nico, but Nico is a bit quieter, and therefore the OBRs get more from Brian.  

Dee and Brian have done a lot of sailing together; Transat Jaques Varbres, Fastnet, MOD70s, so there is a stronger relationship there naturally.

 

Overall has he brought more to the performance, sure, but not quite as much as some here are making out.

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On the subject of 6 hour updates... surely the teams all have subscriptions to satellite AIS services so the shore teams can see all the boats whenever a satellite goes over.  I'm not sure how frequent that is, but it does show that shore teams have other means of obtaining data other than just the 6 hourly feed.

For that matter, if boats wanted to cheat, they could easily have private satellite data links and subscriptions to AIS feeds... or mates that work for iridium that might leak info...

If it is to stop boats cheating, then I think they have the balance wrong.  They could make the spectacle better by trusting the boats more not to cheat.  They even have the OBRs who work for the race and can observing any  blatant infringements. 

The other strange thing is that they appear to have humans who look for key moments and then update the tracker at less than 6 hour intervals, so if this was for fair racing, then surely the key moments would be precisely the time that strict 6h updates should apply?!?!?  The intermittent reinforcement of occasional manual updates is also really frustrating as you can set a regular schedule of looking at the result as you can go to look at the 6h only to find out that an update was done 2 hours ago and you have another 4 hours to wait?!?!?

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You can't have been looking that much.

Irrespective of unscheduled updates the scheduled updates are always at....

01.00, 07.00, 13.00, 19.00 all  UTC.

So you can happily set your alarm clock for these intervals and you won't be disappointed.

Off you go..

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While we are waiting just hours away to see who unglues first...this just in and a guy probably the pinnacle of having worked out how to leverage sponsorship in SH offshore sailing while being encumbered by being an Anglo.

 

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1 hour ago, gregwilkins said:

On the subject of 6 hour updates... surely the teams all have subscriptions to satellite AIS services so the shore teams can see all the boats whenever a satellite goes over. 

..For that matter, if boats wanted to cheat, they could easily have private satellite data links and subscriptions to AIS feeds.. .

You clearly have no understanding of how things work in the real Nav Sailboat world and gear on these boats with that shit..have you ever been outside the sight of land in a boat?

Fuck me.

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1 hour ago, gregwilkins said:

On the subject of 6 hour updates... surely the teams all have subscriptions to satellite AIS services so the shore teams can see all the boats whenever a satellite goes over.  I'm not sure how frequent that is, but it does show that shore teams have other means of obtaining data other than just the 6 hourly feed.

For that matter, if boats wanted to cheat, they could easily have private satellite data links and subscriptions to AIS feeds... or mates that work for iridium that might leak info...

If it is to stop boats cheating, then I think they have the balance wrong.  They could make the spectacle better by trusting the boats more not to cheat.  They even have the OBRs who work for the race and can observing any  blatant infringements. 

The other strange thing is that they appear to have humans who look for key moments and then update the tracker at less than 6 hour intervals, so if this was for fair racing, then surely the key moments would be precisely the time that strict 6h updates should apply?!?!?  The intermittent reinforcement of occasional manual updates is also really frustrating as you can set a regular schedule of looking at the result as you can go to look at the 6h only to find out that an update was done 2 hours ago and you have another 4 hours to wait?!?!?

tinfoilhat.jpg

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4 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Scally's currently fastest SOG, too..

restart!

Very risky strategy but it seems that there is a wind lane ahead of them.

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2 hours ago, Potter said:

Nico and Brian are on board for the next leg. Martin taking a break.

Yes, Brian has brought a different dimension, but the team have been moving themselves forward quite dramatically since the start of the race, so it is by no means all down to him.  Dee was very clear before the start that if they could stop the losses during the day 3-4 of the leg then they would be in the hunt, and that was when the broke East with DFRT.  I am 100% certain that some of the youngsters are stars of the future. 

Brian is probably more involved on deck, but don't think that the team being closer to the leaders is all down to him. He is a very similar character to Nico, but Nico is a bit quieter, and therefore the OBRs get more from Brian.  

Dee and Brian have done a lot of sailing together; Transat Jaques Varbres, Fastnet, MOD70s, so there is a stronger relationship there naturally.

 

Overall has he brought more to the performance, sure, but not quite as much as some here are making out.

Potter not convincing as the Player Queen, methinks.

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Re Scally in terms of position (points) they have nothing to lose. If there is quarter of a chance they might as well gamble.

Hopefully they don't run out of food if it all goes wrong!!

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I can see it's one of those days............

The heat and lack of breeze can have a strange effect I believe.............

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If you think I protest too much, well that is your opinion.  I am just saying that people are reading too much into it, and giving you more information. I don;t have to, and I am rarely here to defend anything, you have your opinion and I have mine...mine just comes from a position of more information than yours, and so was willing to share that info.. 

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23 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Any Spanish speakers - Chus?

Joan in the raw posted 10.49.

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/raw.html

Making it short:

"Here we are, dead-stopped in between squalls, being closer to Hong Kong than others is anecdotic because what's interesting now is to find the wind and the wind is to the East, so boats to the East can win some miles later"

"We went West and we could make quite a bit of North (as much as the rest) and then, with what we had, we tried to go Northeast"

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1 minute ago, chuso007 said:

Making it short:

"Here we are, dead-stopped in between squalls, being closer to Hong Kong than others is anecdotic because what's interesting now is to find the wind and the wind is to the East, so boats to the East can win some miles later"

"We went West and we could make quite a bit of North (as much as the rest) and then, with what we had, we tried to go Northeast"

Largely similar to a discussion we were having in Hong Kong earlier this afternoon (it is now evening here) that DFRT & Vestas & Akzo are probably in the best place right now and it would not take the wind getting to them too much before the pack to the west to leave them in their wake. Next 6 - 12 hours could be quite telling in the local (HK local) sailors eyes

SS

 

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40 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Re Scally in terms of position (points) they have nothing to lose. If there is quarter of a chance they might as well gamble.

Hopefully they don't run out of food if it all goes wrong!!

Exactly, I would rather be in the Vestas group but IMHO considering where they were before, they might as well try something that might work. 

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3 hours ago, Potter said:

Nico and Brian are on board for the next leg. Martin taking a break.

 

Martin is doing a presentation on the Gothenburg Boat Show during his break, February 3rd. I'm definitely going :) 

 

Edit: ....and try to convince the boyfriend that I'm only there for the boats :ph34r:

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"60/40" said Nicho about the chance of a picking the right side of a cloud.

So, of the many chances the navs had to pick the 'right' side, who failed less than the others?

Still a few clouds to go, but so far SiFi is winning.

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1 hour ago, Potter said:

If you think I protest too much, well that is your opinion.  I am just saying that people are reading too much into it, and giving you more information. I don;t have to, and I am rarely here to defend anything, you have your opinion and I have mine...mine just comes from a position of more information than yours, and so was willing to share that info.. 

Got there at last Potter, well done!

You make no secret of being a Dee fan. I make no secret of being a Brian fan. Don't quite see why you felt it necessary to downplay Brian's likely contribution, other than the obvious. You are not on the boat so how can you be objective? Just be happy the boat seems to be doing better. I am.

 

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Have to wait for the YT Live to hear about the 3 ocean current models that VOR provide, but interesting that Rosco also uses another (private source?) with  3 weeks accuracy that they upload to the boat at the last minute.

Good comment that Pascal is an excellent driver because he knows the performance data. Hmmm.  Numbers guy who can use them to ‘feel’ the helm. 

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6 minutes ago, staysail said:

Got there at last Potter, well done!

You make no secret of being a Dee fan. I make no secret of being a Brian fan. Don't quite see why you felt it necessary to downplay Brian's likely contribution, other than the obvious. You are not on the boat so how can you be objective? Just be happy the boat seems to be doing better. I am.

 

I am not downplaying Brian's contribution, I am saying that the team are improving by more than just the addition of him.  I mentioned Dee's history with him to give background. No, I am not on the boat right now, but I probably have more comms with it than most.  If you don't want to pay attention to knowledge based insight then that is your choice, but claiming I am protesting too much is just wrong.

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3 hours ago, gregwilkins said:

On the subject of 6 hour updates... surely the teams all have subscriptions to satellite AIS services so the shore teams can see all the boats whenever a satellite goes over.  I'm not sure how frequent that is, but it does show that shore teams have other means of obtaining data other than just the 6 hourly feed.

For that matter, if boats wanted to cheat, they could easily have private satellite data links and subscriptions to AIS feeds... or mates that work for iridium that might leak info...

OK, simple technical component. The boats carry a type B AIS transponder. The transmitter power of these is too low to be picked up by the sat systems. Proper ships carry type A, which can usually be picked up.  So, sadly, no - you can't track the fleet with AIS except when they are in range of shore based stations. If it were possible there are a number of us here who would be quite happy to purchase a subscription and make the data available for the non official trackers.

There is zero chance they would use a clandestine sat link. That would need another sat system on the boat. You can't just add another channel to the existing Inmarsat system - that is under VOR control, and Inmarsat are a sponsor - they would hardly be going to turn a blind eye. Maybe you could smuggle an Iridium handset onto the boat,  but in the end something as overtly cheating as this would not be smart - you would get caught.  It would not just be a bad day for the team to be caught, but a pretty short trip to a Rule 69 hearing.  Such cheating is career limiting. Consequences would make the result of a few handfuls of lead shot in the wrong place look like a slap on the wrist and a stern talking to.

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Funny line in the Daily Live...  "It seems like one of those races where you just can't switch off from the tracker".  That would be true...  if the tracker was updating.  We'd all be glued to it.  But...  when it updates once every 6 hours, it's pretty easy to "switch off from the tracker" for 5:55 of every 6:00.

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6 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Funny line in the Daily Live...  "It seems like one of those races where you just can't switch off from the tracker".  That would be true...  if the tracker was updating.  We'd all be glued to it.  But...  when it updates once every 6 hours, it's pretty easy to "switch off from the tracker" for 5:55 of every 6:00.

Yup. I was almost yelling at the screen at that point. 

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11 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Funny line in the Daily Live...  "It seems like one of those races where you just can't switch off from the tracker".  That would be true...  if the tracker was updating.  We'd all be glued to it.  But...  when it updates once every 6 hours, it's pretty easy to "switch off from the tracker" for 5:55 of every 6:00.

 

3 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

Yup. I was almost yelling at the screen at that point. 

Surely they have a live tracker they are looking at. Maybe Niall forgets that's not the case for us?

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