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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
duncan (the other one)

VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

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27 minutes ago, Frogman56 said:

Maybe I was too subtle; but consider that when the grib and all the overlays you can find are only about 50 % reliable, the decisions are significantly subjective; but also based on observing what you have (versus the models) and knowing where the strongest wind will be (mostly) as providing the best result.

In this instance (looking forward) it would appear that (for Scally) keeping the bow toward a gate about 20 NM off the NE tip and Luzon would be 'relatively safe'.

Sure.  But to say he GRIB is only 50% reliable isn' a number you can simply fold into another set of odds. You need to define what you mean by reliable, and recognise that 50% is a figure of merit that can have a wide range of meanings. Sometimes the weather is hard edged - either his system hits us or this other one dominates our wind. Other times it is a matter of degree: is the wind speed out by xx knots or yyy degrees?  If it is the latter you are looking a a probability density, not a single number. There are odds to play, but it isn't like betting on the ponies.  

Thus, as you note, subjectivity, but also a range of other domain knowledge, comes into play. 

The difficulty for Scally is that the relatively safe option may not be safe enough. What if you crunch the numbers and decide it holds a 50% chance of leading to a win?  This why looking at the other boats matters as well. You may choose to cover even when it means that you bleed some miles. Here you do begin to crunch the odds more, as you are looking for specific tactical plays in the end game. End games are a different problem to the rest of any race. 

If it was always just a matter of choosing the best bet for good wind it would be a lot easier. But you have to keep an eye on the competition. You have to worry that within the range of possible real weather, they get the jump on you. Just playing the odds for best boatspeed will not always win you the race. And sometimes you have a number of equally attractive (or ugly) options to choose from.

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17 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Funny, after all the scally has to gybe talk the VOR prediction now has then gybe right back. 

Spend some lead and get some in the bag. Surprised they didn't go earlier as I imagine many are.

As you can see they've lost a good 10 NM so far and maybe another 40 to get down to VSII's line.

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1 hour ago, Elisa said:

STM interesting feature among the ones racing, utter BS to hide boats from the viewers and fans. 

I kind of like stealth mode. It adds a bit of suspense.

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48 minutes ago, boomer said:

I'm guessing Dongfeng is about 20 miles behind Vestas.

It's pure fantasy that Dongfeng has skipped 55nm ahead Akzo in just a few hours, while sailing in essentially the same water.  I say they come back on within 10nm of Akzo.

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Pajama party onboard Akzo.

Screen Shot 2018-01-17 at 3.12.58 PM.png

Talking about visibility of clothes...:unsure:

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35 minutes ago, Varan said:

I kind of like stealth mode. It adds a bit of suspense.

Do you also like wearing too small shoes, because it is such nice feeling when you take them off?  :wacko:

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3 minutes ago, silvestert said:

New role... Trimmer-Helmsman

That is actually a Brunel thing. Most crew are listed as Helm-Trimmer in the crew lists. 3 exceptions so far: Bouwe Skipper, Capey Nav, Carlo Bowman

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2 minutes ago, southerncross said:

They should pick up Vestas on AIS soon (and shit themselves) and cover.

LOL

Yeah, I guess they will not be expecting them there...

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4 minutes ago, Chasm said:

So, when will Scally turn back? Any ideas?

Get in line with the top of the Philippines and gybe back, similar to VS's line. Don't think it makes sense to go deeper than that.

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3 minutes ago, silvestert said:

LOL

Yeah, I guess they will not be expecting them there...

I corrected that.  Vestas will still be out of range when they cross in about half an hour.

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Nah they must have a good idea of where VS will be, they only got a report 31/2 hours ago. To far away for AIS - yous pulling our leg......

And yep somwhere near Vestas line...

Edit - you were pulling our leg...

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12 minutes ago, Elisa said:

Talking about visibility of clothes...:unsure:

And one notices the clothing is Zhik. Seems the fashionable colour is sea grey. It isn't clear one could pick a worse colour for safety if one tried.

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Just now, Francis Vaughan said:

fashionable colour

That is the most frumpy kit I've ever seen.  I'm embarrassed for them.  

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Snap - all paying attention.....

Gotta wait for hours now.......... Fucker

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2 hours ago, southerncross said:

How to make Offshore Racing a spectator sport:

Go Live close to the finish.  Stealth mode.  Raw media.  Race Experts fueling the drama with Tweets. 

How to take the excitement out of a spectator sport.

Stealth mode.

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Just now, rogerfal said:

Snap - all paying attention.....

Gotta wait for hours now.......... Fucker

This might kill me. 

But nice move, why not. 

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Just now, southerncross said:

How to take the excitement out of a spectator sport.

Stealth mode.

Yep like we don't need to see!!!!!

Might as well fuck off for 24 hours.

Southern - Looks like you caught a gybe just before they went.

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Just now, rogerfal said:

Southern - Looks like you caught a gybe just before they went.

Nah.  Sorry. That was forecast mode which has been predicted them to gybe since yesterday.

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2 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Might as well fuck off for 24 hours.

Pretty much.

Vestas will go stealth soon as well.

May as well turn off the Live Tracker.

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2 hours ago, boomer said:

I'm guessing Dongfeng is about 20 miles behind Vestas.

The tracker was still reporting Dong's position and statistics a/o the 0700 report:

Skally, Vestas and Dong a/o the 0700 report

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
                        
   
David Witt
ETA Status
- RAC
SOG kt COG
16.0 288°
VMG kt DTF nm
16.0 938.0
TWS kt TWA
13.8 119°

                    

Charlie Enright
ETA Status
- RAC
SOG kt COG
13.6 295°
VMG kt DTF nm
13.5 1 033.1
TWS kt TWA
13.0 130°
 
 
Charles Caudrelier
ETA Status
- STM
SOG kt COG
15.4 288°
VMG kt DTF nm
15.4 1 068.2
TWS kt TWA
13.0 129°
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

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DF back about 22.30 methinks. Maybe come back then.

Still no Steif - assuming he has one, do you think the Mrs has had words or accidentally dropped his device.......... 

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2 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

DF back about 22.30 methinks. Maybe come back then.

Still no Steif - assuming he has one, do you think the Mrs has had words or accidentally dropped his device.......... 

He has really low WiFi at the moment.  I thought the Cartel had them.

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1300 report positions for Skally, Vestas  and Dong:

David Witt
ETA Status
- RAC
SOG kt COG
16.0 304°
VMG kt DTF nm
15.4 841.6
TWS kt TWA
16.5 124°
 
 
Charlie Enright
ETA Status
- RAC
SOG kt COG
15.2 277°
VMG kt DTF nm
14.7 935.0
TWS kt TWA
15.2 129°
 
Charles Caudrelier
ETA Status
- STM
SOG kt COG
19.6 277°
VMG kt DTF nm
19.1 960.0
TWS kt TWA
20.2 136°
   
   
   
   
   
   

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5 minutes ago, Dog said:

A quick explanation of stealth mode please. Limitations on use etc...Thanks

GOING STEALTH

Stealth mode - a fancy feature in the race.

Yesterday we were figuring out who which character of Top Gun is, and now there is a boat in “Stealth Mode” Coincidence?! I THINK NOT!
Below you'll see self proclaimed Kyle "Iceman" Langford

What is this uber cool Stealth Mode then?
It’s a new feature teams can use once per leg. The GPS-position of that team will then be withheld for 3 position updates. That comes down to 24 hours of Stealth. So the spectators and the other teams can only guess where they are...

There are a few remarks though; it can’t be used shortly after the start and before the finish. And even more important: AIS* can never be turned off, so if teams are within AIS range, Stealth mode doesn’t really work. The range of AIS is about 15nm.

BUT WHY?
As long as team know where you’re going they can anticipate your actions. By putting Harry Potters Invisibility Cloak on, you can surprise the others by making radical decisions. Or make others believe you are doing something radical.

*AIS  
The AIS, Automatic Identification System, is a safety system with which ships all over the world can see each other on screen. A boat sending an AIS signal, sends his location, course and speed. Very handy when there is mist, rain or other circumstances that influence visibility. The teams use the AIS to keep a very close eye on each other. 

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3 minutes ago, Varan said:

V11's VMG is 2.4, Dong's VMG is ??. Where could they be? (Isn't stealth fun B))

Dong's VMG was 15.4 at 0700 and 19.1 at 1300...

 

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2 minutes ago, familysailor said:

Dong's VMG was 15.4 at 0700 and 19.1 at 1300...

 

Where are you getting those numbers from?

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3 minutes ago, familysailor said:

I can still read DTF, SOG, and all else on the drop down menu in the tracker for those in and out of stealth. Anyone else?

You mean DTL?  No I can't see it on mine..

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2 minutes ago, familysailor said:

I can still read DTF, SOG, and all else on the drop down menu in the tracker for those in and out of stealth. Anyone else?

Dong has gybed based on COG. 205

https://www.volvooceanrace.com/static/tracker/leg04_babylon.html

Pro Mode - Yes from the graphs

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1 minute ago, southerncross said:

You mean DTL?  No I can't see it on mine..

No DTL, you have to do the math. It has everything else though...

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3 minutes ago, familysailor said:

No DTL, you have to do the math. It has everything else though...

Hadn't noticed that before.

Screen Shot 2018-01-17 at 5.26.37 PM.png

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Are you using the tracker with the drop down menu in the upper right hand corner?

Seems like a significant glitch if the boats can read the same reports...

Try my link above

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I'm sure this has been covered before but here goes anyway.

AIS is broadcast on VHF so is only 'line of sight', normally in my experience this is around 10-12 miles, but sometimes further when atmospherics are favourable. Height of antenna has the biggest effect on range so assuming the antenna is on top of the mast and not on the transom I'd guess 10-12 miles. If its on the transom it could be more like 8-10 miles. It transmits name, position, range, bearing, speed, course, heading, vessel type, destination, how many people onboard and navigational status (sailing, underway, aground etc ). Some software will give you a CPA (closest point of approach) and other anti collision information, but AIS should not be used as a sole collision avoidance tool as its accuracy is based on information provided by the other yacht/vessel which you don't know is accurate. Better to use the radar/visual bearings for that!

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1 minute ago, familysailor said:

Are you using the tracker with the drop down menu in the upper right hand corner?

Seems like a significant glitch if the boats can read the same reports...

Try my link above

See above edited.

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When I tried to take a screen shot last night Firefox popped up with a notification saying they were not available at this time on the newest version of Firefox. I resorted to copy and paste but its glitchy and time consuming.

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3 minutes ago, familysailor said:

Are you using the tracker with the drop down menu in the upper right hand corner?

Seems like a significant glitch if the boats can read the same reports...

Try my link above

Cool, thanks!

a.jpg.691efbd7f22c7ce7fd31e15c1588eb6b.jpg

I was used to the stupid drop-down that shows notices. Didn't notice this one was different until now. Appreciated!

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Since we're posting publicly about this, it will probably be a matter of time before they shut the data down.

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4 minutes ago, familysailor said:

Seems like a significant glitch if the boats can read the same reports...

The boats don't get what we get - they simply get 6 hourly snapshot numbers only.

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Just now, Varan said:

Cool, thanks!

a.jpg.691efbd7f22c7ce7fd31e15c1588eb6b.jpg

I was used to the stupid drop-down that shows notices. Didn't notice this one was different until now. Appreciated!

Well you can post screen shots now. I can stop the copy past tap dance.

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Just now, southerncross said:

Since we're posting publicly about this, it will probably be a matter of time before they shut the data down.

fuck em!

 

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4 minutes ago, BozoC said:

Dong gybed just after Vestas and SK gybed back toward HK

I'm seeing that - VMG using Pro-mode

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1 minute ago, Varan said:

fuck em!

 

Yah, seriously.  Who does it hurt anyway?  Do they have so little trust in the teams not to cheat?

Funny how, one way or another, we find a work around from Forss tracker and Expedition updates to this.

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Just now, rogerfal said:

 

The boats don't get what we get - they simply get 6 hourly snapshot numbers only.

So they can't see what we see in the drop down?

I was diddling with the drop down menu last night.

That's when I first thought something was wrong as Dongs DTF on the first report after going stealth put them close to Vestas. I rewound to their position on the tracker to right before they disappeared and they were still moving along on the tracker.

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6 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Since we're posting publicly about this, it will probably be a matter of time before they shut the data down.

Should I have kept it to myself?

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Just now, familysailor said:

Should I have kept it to myself?

Nah.  It's not about you or anyone else reacting to restricted data.  It's more about the restriction of data.

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Dong seems happy to stick with (aka follow) V11. Sneaky little Scally, gybe, go stealth, then gybe back when V11 gybes.

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