duncan (the other one)

VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

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2 minutes ago, ardel said:

If spratly Islands are chinese

Do not , I repeat Do Not go there .

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^^

beauty of watertight bulkheads

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't forget this is bamboo land. I  could tell you some stories about construction  workplace  deaths and investigations in China other than to say it ain't like anywhere people here come from.  You had  better jump on a plane Scan and take control.

images (35).jpeg

 Oh for sure. Depends on the level of corruption. If the fishing vessel was clearly negligent they might chalk it all  up to him. 

10 POB on the fishing vessel? Not a dinghy. 

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looks to have been struck from aft

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Because the SI story reported Vestas pulled the fishermen from sinking boat/water, and the other story reported that another commercial vessel (fishing boat?) transported the 9 uninjured to shore. Both can be true. 

THE VOR article below does not say anything about a transfer. It MAY have happened that way but neither article says so.
 
 
18:46 UTC
Volvo Ocean Race

01:10 GMT - January 20, 2018.

The Volvo Ocean Race can confirm Vestas 11th Hour Racing, one of the teams competing in the 2017-18 race, has been involved in a collision with a non-race vessel before the finish of Leg 4, near Hong Kong.

The team has retired from Leg 4 and is proceeding to Hong Kong unassisted and under its own power.

Race Control at Volvo Ocean Race headquarters was informed of the collision by the team moments after it happened at approximately 17:23 UTC on Friday January 19, 2018 (01:23 local time on Saturday morning).

The Vestas 11th Hour Racing team issued a Mayday distress call on behalf of the other vessel, alerting the Hong Kong Marine Rescue Coordination Centre (HKMRCC) and undertook a search and rescue mission.

HKMRCC has informed Race Control that a commercial vessel in the area was able to rescue nine of the crew and that a tenth crew member was taken by helicopter to hospital.

All of the crew on Vestas 11th Hour Racing are safe. Their boat suffered damage and the team has officially retired from the leg, but the team is able to motor to shore.

More information will be released as it becomes available.

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Assuming the horizontal tear was from the sheer of the fishing boat, I'd estimate about 3' of freeboard...probably less than 30' length. Boat may not have much damage, but was swamped and sank nearly immediately. Just some SA speculation.

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looks as if the pointy end went in

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39 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Sad for the fisherman but could quite easilly have been one or more Vestas crew members. Then the shit would hit the fan at VOR HQ.

why would there be a difference?

 

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6 minutes ago, Mid said:

looks to have been struck from aft

Maybe. Or they hit the stern quarter?

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Just now, southerncross said:

Maybe. Or they hit the stern quarter?

that'd work also

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2 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Assuming the horizontal tear was from the sheer of the fishing boat, I'd estimate about 3' of freeboard...probably less than 30' length. Boat may not have much damage, but was swamped and sank nearly immediately. Just some SA speculation.

I’d assume a bit larger if they had ten crew on board. Keep in mind, Vestas was heeled over doing 20 knots on a beam reach at the time. 

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Just now, Monkey said:

I’d assume a bit larger if they had ten crew on board

they'd put 10 in a sardine tin

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1 minute ago, See Level said:

Or maybe they were hit.

also possible if parked up

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43 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't forget this is bamboo land. I  could tell you some stories about construction  workplace  deaths and investigations in China other than to say it ain't like anywhere people here come from.  You had  better jump on a plane Scan and take control.

 

This is Hong Kong, with one of the highest regarded legal systems in the world that is quite distinct from the laws and legal system of People's Republic of China.

The Hong Kong Police , HKPF , are also NOT under the control of mainland authorities. The marine division with 3,000 officers and 140+ vessels have resources that make New York City's marine and harbor division look third world in comparison.

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2 hours ago, Miffy said:

Ignore him. Child on an island with only internet. 

lol removed in respect for fisherman, didn't know that yet. RIP the poor soul.

Childish remark, nevertheless Miffy.

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4 minutes ago, southerncross said:
 
 

Waglan Island fishing boat collided 10 people fell into the sea rescued 1 people to hospital death

January 20, 2018 09:44
bkn-20180120094402324-0120_00822_001_01p.jpg?20180120103715
Wrangler accident occurred. (Data picture)
 

An incident of crashes occurred on the sea off to the east of Waglan Island. Police reported to a mainland fishing boat about 2.32 am at a collision with a sailboat off the Waglan Island outside the waters of Hong Kong, in which 10 of the fishing boats fell into the sea Police and firefighters rescued them. One of them was seriously injured. A flight crew sent a helicopter to Eastern Hospital for treatment. However, it was confirmed that the vehicle was dead at 6.30 am and the police were conducting an investigation.

It is learned that Hong Kong is holding a sail race recently. The tournament sail started on October 22 last year in Alicante, Spain. The fleet of seven seasons will sail over 45,000 nautical miles across the world and travel through 12 cities including Hong Kong And will end at The Hague by the end of June next year. It is the longest, hardest and hardest sport in the world. Reporters from the East Network are learning from the organizers.

 

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One way or another, I feel horrible. Some random guy just died because of our sport. I’m not going to whine about new rules or any of that nonsense, I just feel bad. 

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Marinetraffic shows VS11(yellow arrow) heading to a different docking area than VOR race village (red arrow). Do any of you local HK folks have any insight on this location?

VestasHK.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I’d assume a bit larger if they had ten crew on board. Keep in mind, Vestas was heeled over doing 20 knots on a beam reach at the time. 

The hole is close enough to bow of Vestas that heel angle wouldn't change height above water very much. 10 aboard isn't a stretch, don't know what kind of fishing they were doing. 

It's possible that the boats tangled, and a piece of gear like an outrigger made the hole, but it looks to me like it was the hull.

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3 minutes ago, Forestdawg said:

Marinetraffic shows VS11(yellow arrow) heading to a different docking area

YIU LIAN DOCKYARDS

Yiu Lian Dockyards (Shekou) Ltd. with its rich experience and high-quality team work has successfully completed repair of all sorts of vessels and rigs at home and abroad.

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6 minutes ago, Forestdawg said:

Marinetraffic shows VS11(yellow arrow) heading to a different docking area than VOR race village (red arrow). Do any of you local HK folks have any insight on this location?

VestasHK.jpg

 

There's a marine police dock all the way in Siu Lam.

 

I understand the sponsors want to get PR and the VOR wants to get on with it - but honestly at this point, the docking coverage just seems... tone deaf and indifference. 

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^^

look for the bar that pops up and choose insert as a link

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I posted this in the Sailing thread not realising this thread was already started. 

 

Oh my.  There seems to be bad juju following Vesta?!  I can only imagine them clipping along at 20+kits and out of no where, a junk with out lights? Let see what comes out of the investigation.

i know here in Manila Bay, Basnigs (large fishing bangca (outrigger type) ) actually hunt sailboats to snag them in their nets to extort money.  Not sure if this is done in HK?,,,but who know? 


 

 

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31 minutes ago, familysailor said:
THE VOR article below does not say anything about a transfer. It MAY have happened that way but neither article says so.
 
 
18:46 UTC
Volvo Ocean Race

01:10 GMT - January 20, 2018.

The Volvo Ocean Race can confirm Vestas 11th Hour Racing, one of the teams competing in the 2017-18 race, has been involved in a collision with a non-race vessel before the finish of Leg 4, near Hong Kong.

The team has retired from Leg 4 and is proceeding to Hong Kong unassisted and under its own power.

Race Control at Volvo Ocean Race headquarters was informed of the collision by the team moments after it happened at approximately 17:23 UTC on Friday January 19, 2018 (01:23 local time on Saturday morning).

The Vestas 11th Hour Racing team issued a Mayday distress call on behalf of the other vessel, alerting the Hong Kong Marine Rescue Coordination Centre (HKMRCC) and undertook a search and rescue mission.

HKMRCC has informed Race Control that a commercial vessel in the area was able to rescue nine of the crew and that a tenth crew member was taken by helicopter to hospital.

All of the crew on Vestas 11th Hour Racing are safe. Their boat suffered damage and the team has officially retired from the leg, but the team is able to motor to shore.

More information will be released as it becomes available.

All the vo65 sailboats are commercial vessels.

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Sailing boat cross the island hit the sinking fishing boat 10 people fall into the sea one person died

 
28,790
Build Time (HKT): 0120 09:53
     

At about 2 am, a racing sailing vessel collided with a mainland fishing tackle east of Waililan Island. After the accident, the fishing boat sank. 10 people landed on the sea and were later rescued by the Mainland fishing vessel However, one of them was seriously injured and was taken over by the Government Flying Service's helicopter to the Eastern Hospital for treatment. However, it was delayed until about 6:30 a.m for the confirmed death. Police are investigating the collision between the two vessels. It is reported that the sailing boat involved 20 meters long, there were 10 people on board, all of them were not injured.

As the Volvo Ocean Race was recently held in Hong Kong for the first time recently, Hong Kong Subway Station is the fifth of the 12 sub-stations of the 45,000-mile race. It is the largest sailing event in Hong Kong. "Apple "We are going to the General Assembly to know if the sailing vessel is participating in the vessel.

 

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30 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

why would there be a difference?

 

The simple realities of how life is treated depending which world it is happening. It takes a lot of deaths to occur in the third world to make it forward of page 3 in the western media.

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The simple realities of how life is treated depending which world it is happening. It takes a lot of deaths to occur in the third world to make it forward of page 3 in the western media.

Hong Kong is about as first world as it gets

Point taken though.

Edited by rustylaru
addition

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look a bit closer at this and picture the bow in a seaway

Untitled.jpg.4cfb94fdd6f287d56c3628e9904dd805.jpg

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4 minutes ago, rustylaru said:

Hong Kong is about as first world as it gets

well happy to debate that BUT not in this thread

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1 minute ago, Mid said:

look a bit closer at this and picture the bow in a seaway

Untitled.jpg.4cfb94fdd6f287d56c3628e9904dd805.jpg

Ridden over the top. 

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yep , be nothing but sail boat fuel forward below

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4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Ridden over the top. 

Making more sense and as to the size of the boat.

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SA has made the volvo twitter feed

 

1.jpg.1f9d93628dfaabd4903e5b5c9f8a3103.jpg

 

2.jpg.91bc7261dd144a0cb4123bee021b7b11.jpg

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Thinking about this incident and what organizational changes we should think about to make it safer... the earlier suggestion re ending the formal leg offshore in more isolated waters and requiring boats to sail to the "photo finish" for sponsors ROI may be needed sooner rather than later.

In retrospect, it is a matter of time at 20 knots, competitive pressure, low visibility, duration and stressors of offshore sailing... the French scene starts and ends further out at shore. Might be a good model.

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Just now, Miffy said:

Thinking about this incident and what organizational changes we should think about to make it safer... the earlier suggestion re ending the formal leg offshore in more isolated waters and requiring boats to sail to the "photo finish" for sponsors ROI may be needed sooner rather than later.

yep , common practice in SEA regatta's

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2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Thinking about this incident and what organizational changes we should think about to make it safer... the earlier suggestion re ending the formal leg offshore in more isolated waters and requiring boats to sail to the "photo finish" for sponsors ROI may be needed sooner rather than later.

In retrospect, it is a matter of time at 20 knots, competitive pressure, low visibility, duration and stressors of offshore sailing... the French scene starts and ends further out at shore. Might be a good model.

+1

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Mainstream Media

South China Morning Post reports that the fishing boat was from Mainland China

A mainland fishing boat hit a sailing boat at about 2.30am to the east of Waglan Island, a police spokesman said. The fishing boat sank and the 10 people fell into the sea.

One crew member was seriously injured and taken to hospital by helicopter. He was confirmed dead at 6.30am.

All of the crew were sent to Eastern District Hospital for treatment, the report concluded.

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/201295/One-reported-dead-in-collision-with-fishing-boat

 

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57 minutes ago, IPLore said:

This is Hong Kong, with one of the highest regarded legal systems in the world that is quite distinct from the laws and legal system of People's Republic of China.

That may well be but it is not the judiciary nor state law administrators that report on marine accidents. 

57 minutes ago, IPLore said:

The Hong Kong Police , HKPF , are also NOT under the control of mainland authorities. The marine division with 3,000 officers and 140+ vessels have resources that make New York City's marine and harbor division look third world in comparison

The Marine Department is a state instrumentality independent of the Hong Kong Police Force, Port Authorities etc and is big as you say comensurate with the volume of traffic through the place. However it my understanding that resources allocated to the  Marine Accident Investigation Section (MAIS) of that Department have been somewhat lacking in recent times. My understanding however may well be wrong. 

Also if the fishing vessel is not HK registered but mainland registered MAIS might not even get a look in.

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49 minutes ago, Forestdawg said:

Marinetraffic shows VS11(yellow arrow) heading to a different docking area than VOR race village (red arrow). Do any of you local HK folks have any insight on this location?

VestasHK.jpg

Tsing Yi is peppered with little boatyards - check out on Google Earth. My own boat was built thre as were two of the 1979 HK Admiral's Cup team which did rather well (3rd overall I think)

 

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As bad as this all is, it's a good thing Akzo didn't hit.  I think Nicho would have had a coronary.

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Repairs will not begin until HK accident investigation is over. I suspect Miffy is right and V11 has been directed where to go by the HKPFMD.  

I hope someone from VOR is on their way to meet them with dry clothes and food. They will be exhausted but they may have to be interviewed before they can get to a hotel and shower.

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

That may well be but it is not the judiciary nor state law administrators that report on marine accidents. 

The Marines Department is a state instrumentality independent of the Hong Kong Police Force, Port Authorities etc and is big as you say comensurate with the volume of traffic through the place. However it my understanding that resources allocated to the  Marine Accident Investigation Section (MAIS) of that Department have been somewhat lacking in recent times. My understanding however may well be wrong. 

Also if the fishing vessel is not HK registered but mainland registered MAIS might not even get a look in.

You may be right Jack. According to the newspaper report the collision happened just outside HK waters. It happened between a Cayman islands registered vessel with a destination of HK and a China registered vessel which sank. I have no idea whose jurisdiction such an investigation would be but I would assume HK or the Caymans - anyone know?

SS

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Is Vestas in trouble for violating Colregs? The preamble of Part 2 mentions boats racing must obey Colregs when encountering boats not racing, but it's not a numbered Rule.

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1 minute ago, IPLore said:

Repairs will not begin until HK accident investigation is over. I suspect Miffy is right and V11 has been directed where to go by the HKPFMD.  

I hope someone from VOR is on their way to meet them with dry clothes and food. They will be exhausted but they may have to be interviewed before they can get to a hotel and shower.

On the purely humane level  hope this is true. Can't imagine what they have been through. 

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It will be some time before we know anything about what happened. Because there has been a fatality the Police need to investigate, then insurance and then a serious repair (although that section is probably already being made in Persico). Sadly they will not be going anywhere for some time.............

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Having sailed into it myself, I thought it was crazy to race in to a port like Cochin (Kochi) in the 2008/2009 race.   To go in at such high speed seemed wreckless to me and I figured it was a miracle nobody got into a collision that year.   Unless you have gone in or out of an area like that, you don't understand how congested and crazy it can be, especially on a day when the small fishing boats are trying to get back to market.    AIS is useless since most of the small boats don't use it.   Radar is great but a small wooden boat in waves may be very hard to pick up.   It could be that speeds of 20 knots going into Hong Kong is simply too fast to see the small, poorly lit and non AIS boats in the area.    If you are in a restricted or dangerous area with known navigation hazards, you must take all precautions and being in a race doesn't mean a thing.   It is possible that Vestas could be deemed to be at fault here, even if the boat they hit was not being operated properly.   I think this could get very messy in the courts.     What a tragedy for everybody.....

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1 hour ago, southerncross said:
1 hour ago, SCANAS said:

Ridden over the top. 

Making more sense and as to the size of the boat.

I guess you conclude that from the scrape around the waterline and so the hole was caused by impact with the deckhouse or other part. We don't know.

I feel a bit numb - sad for the person who died, their family and dependents if that applies. Sad for Vestas and all involved with the race.

VOR's response with regards communication is bewildering though consistent with what has gone before. The apparent lack of independent journalists on the ground may be a factor.

Re other media I've viewed all of the links posted on this forum.

Perhaps a full statement will appear in the next few hours though no doubt not before the lawyers are consulted. In any case the incident is now the subject of a police investigation.

Even though Vestas did not finish there maybe a case for redress (RRS 62.1 (b) & (c)) however it's not possible to comment further without full knowledge of the incident.

Questions about the speed of modern sailing boats and their ability to keep a lookout will arise. Not to mention poorly lit fishing boats if this is the case.

Many questions but without facts much is purely speculation.

 

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4 minutes ago, thetruth said:

It will be some time before we know anything about what happened. Because there has been a fatality the Police need to investigate, then insurance and then a serious repair (although that section is probably already being made in Persico). Sadly they will not be going anywhere for some time.............

Firstly, let it be said, I don't think there is anyone that I have seen that is not pretty devastated by the death of a seaman... irrespective of whether he/she be a crew member of one of the VOR boats , anyone else. Yes... the crew would be more familiar .... but I think it stops there.

What is remarkable to me though, is the issue of speculation. Clearly, there are some strong views about this, but what cannot be denied, is the "common knowledge" on SA and the closeness this speculation turned out to reality.  In fact, it was SA that first drew attention to an issue with Vestas.

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VOR and Volvo aren't helping themselves any and there would be a lot less speculation if there wasn't this media blackout.  Only showing smiling finishers while ignoring a tragedy is a piss poor response.   

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1 minute ago, opusnz said:

VOR and Volvo aren't helping themselves any with this media blackout.  Only showing smiling finishers while ignoring a tragedy is a piss poor response.    

Could not have put it better myself.

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21 minutes ago, opusnz said:

Having sailed into it myself, I thought it was crazy to race in to a port like Cochin (Kochi) in the 2008/2009 race.   To go in at such high speed seemed wreckless to me and I figured it was a miracle nobody got into a collision that year.   Unless you have gone in or out of an area like that, you don't understand how congested and crazy it can be, especially on a day when the small fishing boats are trying to get back to market.    AIS is useless since most of the small boats don't use it.   Radar is great but a small wooden boat in waves may be very hard to pick up.   It could be that speeds of 20 knots going into Hong Kong is simply too fast to see the small, poorly lit and non AIS boats in the area.    If you are in a restricted or dangerous area with known navigation hazards, you must take all precautions and being in a race doesn't mean a thing.   It is possible that Vestas could be deemed to be at fault here, even if the boat they hit was not being operated properly.   I think this could get very messy in the courts.     What a tragedy for everybody.....

@02.21 am in the dark

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Drift:

Drone Saves Drowning Swimmers for First Time Ever
National Geographic

The lifeguards piloting the drone were being trained on how to use the device when beachgoers alerted them to the teens who needed rescuing. Read the full story

 
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Am a senior associate with one of the world's largest public affairs/public relations firms. One thing i have learned dealing with crises involving a fatality  is that there is ALWAYS more information available to insiders than those in the public domain. To whit in this instance, the fatality, the helo lift, the redirection of Vestas et al. The clamour for real time info is palpable. But operationally coms lags of necessity. Not an apology for the professionals in this instance, who it can be argued dropped the ball once the severity was known. But context is everything. They had it. we didn't.

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Would be very cool if the drone buoy had some sort of nightvision spotting scope. Hard to see how one of those would've helped in this particular situation though. 

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5 minutes ago, Cwinsor said:

Am a senior associate with one of the world's largest public affairs/public relations firms. One thing i have learned dealing with crises involving a fatality  is that there is ALWAYS more information available to insiders than those in the public domain. To whit in this instance, the fatality, the helo lift, the redirection of Vestas et al. The clamour for real time info is palpable. But operationally coms lags of necessity. Not an apology for the professionals in this instance, who it can be argued dropped the ball once the severity was known. But context is everything. They had it. we didn't.

I understand but it has been hours since the event occurred and it has already been reported several places elsewhere.    They should have given more info hours ago.

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It is more than 4 /2 hours since their last news report.  If you go by their site,  Vestas is still motoring ashore yet they have been tied up for hours.   Their twitter and race blog is no better.  All it shows is boats finishing with no mention of anything to do with Vestas.   The individual boat blogs are blocked out.

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2 minutes ago, opusnz said:

It is more than 4 /2 hours since their last news report.  If you go by their site,  Vestas is till motoring ashore yet they have been tied up for hours.   Thei twitter and race blog is no better.  All it shows is boats finishing with no mention of anything to do with Vestas.   The individual boat blogs are blocked out.

Serious question. 

Is the crew being detained/questioned by the HK authorities?

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