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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
duncan (the other one)

VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

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20 minutes ago, Geert said:

A 12,5Ton VOR65 can sink a descend size of fishing boat I think, especially if runs over it and pushes the gangway under water. Even if the general consensus is that Vestas hit the fishing boat, I doesn't automatically mean it's (only) their fault.

Have you ever been on a boat?I was going to make some more complex arguments but maybe there's no point

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Is there a special places where all these trolls and new posters hide while waiting for things such as this?

 The last 5-6 pages have displayed some disgusting behaviour, clamouring for information before anything has been clarified, insinuating guilt, on various parties, bitching and arguing with each...etc, etc. It’s like a bunch of people at a train wreck trying to take photographs, surmising what’s happened before the bodies and wreckage have been moved,  fucking disgusting!!<_<<_<

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Didn't they race through Singapore on the last round, or the one previous

I understand that 30 miles out is the "high seas." But, Hong Kong is one of the busiest ports in the world, with a known reputation for multiple unlit vessels operating at night. My sphincter tightens just thinking about it.

 Charles is hammer down about an hour behind you, he will be right on your ass the second the wind turns off, so you can't really throttle back.  You don't want excess caution to cost you to lose a points, so you "imitate the action"of a Frenchman, and go for it.  Unfortunately, God doesn't protect you like he favors the French......as you learn the hard way.

Bonus point if you know the reference.

SHC

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16 minutes ago, Elisa said:

Don’t want to sound inpatient , I probably do, but should there not be a tiny more coming out of VOR?

It is 24hrs almost. VOR CEO could say something about the tragedy, even say that he has not all answers but are fully cooperating with local authorities. Perhaps say something about other injured people, the Vestas boat and crew? I’m not a communication professional but this would make sense to me. 

You ask a difficult question. VOR CEO. That is a conundrum isn't it? The invisible virtual CEO team. Never yet shown their faces. 

Right now I smell a leadership vacuum. It is bad enough that the CEO team have been absent since taking up the position, but the way this  accident has unfolded from the point of view of the VOR smacks of a total lack of leadership.  It is minions desperately trying to work a very difficult situation with either no guidance, or possibly ridiculous orders from a CEO team who have no clue what to do and are hiding under their beds hoping it will all go away. 

It is problems like this that divide the managers from the leaders. 

If we don't see the CEOs in the next 24 hours, in person, I think we can write them off. The Volvo group should terminate their contract forthwith. They are clearly simply not up to the job.

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18 minutes ago, Herman said:

A bit of extra info in Chinese transgarbled by Google which is better than all the specuguessing going on here.

The deceased fisherman is Mr. Xu, 50 years old and owner of the boat.

HKMRCC received around 02:00 AM local time a message.

Around 04:30 both the Challenger 605 and helicopters were on scène.

Around 05:55 the fisherman, who was in a coma, arrived at the hospital.

Anyone wants to do a full proper translation?

http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/20180120/mobile/bkn-20180120094402324-0120_00822_001.html

 

This article also has video of the rescue and Vestas on the hard. 

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14 minutes ago, mad said:

Is there a special places where all these trolls and new posters hide while waiting for things such as this?

 The last 5-6 pages have displayed some disgusting behaviour, clamouring for information before anything has been clarified, insinuating guilt, on various parties, bitching and arguing with each...etc, etc. It’s like a bunch of people at a train wreck trying to photographs, fucking disgusting!!<_<<_<

What are you expecting from Sailing Anarchy ?

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11 minutes ago, mad said:

Is there a special places where all these trolls and new posters hide while waiting for things such as this?

 The last 5-6 pages have displayed some disgusting behaviour, clamouring for information before anything has been clarified, insinuating guilt, on various parties, bitching and arguing with each...etc, etc. It’s like a bunch of people at a train wreck trying to take photographs, surmising what’s happened before the bodies and wreckage have been moved,  fucking disgusting!!<_<<_<

Calm down you big girls blouse. 

I was pretty careful to point out that I am only speculating. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Grubbie said:

Have you ever been on a boat?I was going to make some more complex arguments but maybe there's no point

Congrats for the stupidest question in the threat. No need to get personal when you're out of arguments, this is not a pissing contest.

 

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21 minutes ago, Steve Clark said:

Didn't they race through Singapore on the last round, or the one previous

I understand that 30 miles out is the "high seas." But, Hong Kong is one of the busiest ports in the world, with a known reputation for multiple unlit vessels operating at night. My sphincter tightens just thinking about it.

 Charles is hammer down about an hour behind you, he will be right on your ass the second the wind turns off, so you can't really throttle back.  You don't want excess caution to cost you to lose a points, so you "imitate the action"of a Frenchman, and go for it.  Unfortunately, God doesn't protect you like he favors the French......as you learn the hard way.

Bonus point if you know the reference.

SHC

"once more into the breach"...

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1 minute ago, Geert said:

Congrats for the stupidest question in the threat. No need to get personal when you're out of arguments, this is not a pissing contest.

 

You have got to be kidding.... 

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16 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

What are you expecting from Sailing Anarchy ?

Says another lurking vulture that’s suddenly appeared....

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6 minutes ago, Yeah Buoy said:

Yes, the same photo that was posted in this very thread a few pages back...

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14 minutes ago, Grubbie said:

Calm down you big girls blouse. 

I was pretty careful to point out that I am only speculating. 

 

Did you join specifically to comment on this incident, or is this a sock?

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6 hours ago, Frogman56 said:

Heres my AUD 1000 to kick the can.

Great idea! Start a crowd fund kick starter funding thingo and I'm sure a lot of fans will put in some funds (including me).

I'm sure there will eventually be some official reparations, but they will take time and probably not go to all involved. As well as the family and friends who have lost somebody there are 9 sailors who have lost their friend/boss/job/home?

It will be harder for VOR or teams to give financial assistence soon, as there could be implications of fault as a result.  For my part even if the fishing boat was negligent and wholly responsible, I'm happy to donate a few dollars to help those badly affected by the sport I support.....

At least that would feel better that watching all of us idiots calling each other idiots. Perhaps we should start a swear jar and then sparrow could contribute the most funds as well as opinions.

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, opusnz said:

Having sailed into it myself, I thought it was crazy to race in to a port like Cochin (Kochi) in the 2008/2009 race.   To go in at such high speed seemed wreckless to me and I figured it was a miracle nobody got into a collision that year.   Unless you have gone in or out of an area like that, you don't understand how congested and crazy it can be, especially on a day when the small fishing boats are trying to get back to market.    AIS is useless since most of the small boats don't use it.   Radar is great but a small wooden boat in waves may be very hard to pick up.   It could be that speeds of 20 knots going into Hong Kong is simply too fast to see the small, poorly lit and non AIS boats in the area.    If you are in a restricted or dangerous area with known navigation hazards, you must take all precautions and being in a race doesn't mean a thing.   It is possible that Vestas could be deemed to be at fault here, even if the boat they hit was not being operated properly.   I think this could get very messy in the courts.     What a tragedy for everybody.....

Radar reflectors?

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20 minutes ago, oceangeek said:

Yes, the same photo that was posted in this very thread a few pages back...

Whoops. I can’t keep up with this thread anymore.  

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Interesting ColRegs question.  Unless the fishing vessel was showing lights for a a vessel fishing with nets, it looks like the sailboat was stand-on. 

But even as stand-on they were still obligated to avoid a collision.  

If the other vessel had a crew of 10 she had to be a decent size.  Wonder if they had radar on

Going to be an interesting inquiry. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Is there a special places where all these trolls and new posters hide while waiting for things such as this?

It's like a cruise ship just pulled into port and unleashed the passengers...

 

I'm of the thought the big gash is from a pilothouse after v11 ran up and over the fishing boat rail, stopped, settle down and swamped the fishing boat. 

Bad news all around

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It appears in the rescue vids and stills that a life raft was deployed - assuming it was Vistas raft, good move by them; is there anything in the racing rules that says they have to retire if raft is deployed?

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Still dumfounded by the accident, tragic.
Anyone interested in some B-roll stuff of the arrivals? Then I would upload it and embed it here, but if not, I can understand. I do not feel like celebrating the leg finish anyway

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9 minutes ago, MetalMan said:

It appears in the rescue vids and stills that a life raft was deployed - assuming it was Vistas raft, good move by them; is there anything in the racing rules that says they have to retire if raft is deployed?

I was surprised to see the raft, they’re incredibly unstable when light with a helo downdraft. I’ve been in a 10 man with 3 people in it that nearly capsized when the whichman was in the door (training exercise). I would have thought that a hi-line would be the favoured option, unless they weren’t clear on the state of the damage to the boat. 

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32 minutes ago, Snore said:

Interesting ColRegs question.  Unless the fishing vessel was showing lights for a a vessel fishing with nets, it looks like the sailboat was stand-on. 

But even as stand-on they were still obligated to avoid a collision.  

If the other vessel had a crew of 10 she had to be a decent size.  Wonder if they had radar on

Going to be an interesting inquiry. 

Not really interesting as the ColRegs are pretty clear.

RULE 17
Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a)
(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall
keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her
maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel
required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in
compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and
speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of
the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to
avoid collision.

Rule six also highlights concentration of fishing vessels as to determine safe speed.

RULE 6
Safe Speed
Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can
take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a
distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions

n determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those
taken into account:
(a) By all vessels: (ii) the traffic density including concentration of fishing vessels or any
other vessels

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Still dumfounded by the accident, tragic.
Anyone interested in some B-roll stuff of the arrivals? Then I would upload it and embed it here, but if not, I can understand. I do not feel like celebrating the leg finish anyway

Yes. Drop it in please, Rennie.

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21 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Still dumfounded by the accident, tragic.
Anyone interested in some B-roll stuff of the arrivals? Then I would upload it and embed it here, but if not, I can understand. I do not feel like celebrating the leg finish anyway

Go for it Renn, be interesting to see the reactions of the crews as they finish, I’m assuming that they would all be well aware by time they docked. I wonder if there were any other close calls as they all came in?

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15 minutes ago, MetalMan said:

It appears in the rescue vids and stills that a life raft was deployed - assuming it was Vistas raft, good move by them; is there anything in the racing rules that says they have to retire if raft is deployed?

"good move"
What a stupid stance !
Before stating that it is 'good' or 'bad', you'd better ask yourself many questions
Why DF have been asked to continue by VOR control, when few minutes later you see Vestas track like if they are still searching a missing man.
How was communication between fishing boat and Vestas
How was communication between Vestas and VOR control
How was communication from VOR with other, especially DF which was close and has a chinese speaking on board who could have talk with the fishing crew
When did they realize there was still a missing man on the fishing boat

After knowing that they finally discover the boat owner, unconcious, and had to lift him with helicopter. The matter to know if deploying a raft to facilitate the evacuation is compliant with the racing rules is completly irrelevant.

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Here are the B-roll videos.
In addition, VOR uploaded many interviews. I cannot go through them, but will upload most of them anyway. They could include double posts with other sources.

 

EDIT: Just saw that there are no interviews in here at all. Just the finish line crossings etc.
 

 

 

 

 

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What a tragedy, especially for the fisherman's family / loved ones.

I would not be surprised if the fishing boat was not properly lighted (if at all). The crews arriving in the dark were all well aware of the situation they were getting in and these are experienced sailors. I would be truly shocked if they did not have a proper lookout. Then again they were tired, but the adrenaline must have been high. I assume there is video footage.

Whatever the outcome the Vestas / 11th hour team must be devastated, and I assume the VOR will make changes to arrivals at night in busy ports. As suggested by others they can finish at sea, or they can be forced to wait until daybreak, then restart in the same order (which can get complicated if the fleet is spread out). Yes, who comes out at 3 am to see a boat finish in the dark? Hardly a spectacle.

There are a lot of great posts here, but some of you should consider removing some of your posts here. You can insult one another, yourself, and your own intelligence in other threads, but this is a tragedy. Please show some respect!

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24 minutes ago, Wavedancer II said:

Bad news indeed. World news will pick up on this tragedy and bring down the sport we love.

I doubt that. People die at sea often. It's a dangerous place. Shit happens.

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41 minutes ago, Soley said:

Not really interesting as the ColRegs are pretty clear.

RULE 17
Action by Stand-on Vessel

(a)
(i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall
keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her
maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel
required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in
compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and
speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of
the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to
avoid collision.

Rule six also highlights concentration of fishing vessels as to determine safe speed.

RULE 6
Safe Speed
Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can
take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a
distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions

n determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those
taken into account:
(a) By all vessels: (ii) the traffic density including concentration of fishing vessels or any
other vessels

 

 

The $1M question is “did the fishing vessel have compliant running lights”.

Some fisherman can go “stealth”.  I won’t judge until all the data is in 

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"In regards to the investigation, it wouldn't surprise me that VOR has video of the collision.  If not the direct hit, then everything after and add to that an OBR that would have been taking video/photos to document." I think I remember the video is always taping and then overrides itself. So there is a button crew can hit and then have the last 90 seconds or so and then roll on. That's why we always see the chinese gybes, etc. Correct??

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4 minutes before and after the button pushed for the auto save video.

And I've seen broadband radar pick up a lot smaller targets.

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1 hour ago, Liquid said:

It's like a cruise ship just pulled into port and unleashed the passengers...

 

I'm of the thought the big gash is from a pilothouse after v11 ran up and over the fishing boat rail, stopped, settle down and swamped the fishing boat. 

Bad news all around

At least you have a plausible theory. Looks far too much like a puncture wound to me.

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7 hours ago, Herman said:

we just thought, bugger this, we’re just going to through all the technology out the window, put our heads outside the boat and look at the clouds and decide what we’re going to do, and basically stick to it.”

Sounds like they stopped listening to Libby to me.

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3 hours ago, mad said:

Is there a special places where all these trolls and new posters hide while waiting for things such as this?

 The last 5-6 pages have displayed some disgusting behaviour, <snip>,  fucking disgusting!!<_<<_<

300?cb=20110117133053

Edit: Mad is our Bald Eagle of appropriate behaviour,

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Apologies that these interviews are just cut together without editing. It would take too much effort/time to polish them. Assuming, you'd rather like it fast than pretty anyway... 

The first one, more to follow...
 

 

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1 hour ago, AnotherSailor said:

 

Whatever the outcome the Vestas / 11th hour team must be devastated, and I assume the VOR will make changes to arrivals at night in busy ports. As suggested by others they can finish at sea, or they can be forced to wait until daybreak, then restart in the same order (which can get complicated if the fleet is spread out). Yes, who comes out at 3 am to see a boat finish in the dark? Hardly a spectacle.

 

No. Fucking stupid. First of all the accident happened a long way from the port. You want the finish to be 50 miles outside???

Secondly - boats to wait and restart?! For how long? Sometimes the last boat is days behind the others. 

Stupid. Just log off please. 

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2 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

Stupid. Just log off please. 

You heard the lady, you've been told!

woman-doing-her-nails-in-office-picture-

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Yep finishing in crowded seaways at night is dangerous, too dangerous. 

Do I have to provide a link?

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Random thought from a sailor who knows little about fishing...  In fishing areas like where this occurred...  are some areas densely populated with fishermen while others are sparse or empty?  My impression is that fishermen congregate in areas where topography, currents, water temps, etc, make for the best fishing.  I'm wondering if perhaps some additional exclusion zones would enable boats to race to ports with dramatically reduced risk?

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As time goes by, these 'talking head' interviews on the dock add less and less value.

They are starting to sound like Peter Burling at Bermuda to me.  A string of clichés.  Blah blah fucking blah.

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Just now, jackolantern said:

Counting not your strong suit huh? 

Not interested in Leg 5.  Be by guest.

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2 hours ago, Firebar said:

I was surprised to see the raft, they’re incredibly unstable when light with a helo downdraft. I’ve been in a 10 man with 3 people in it that nearly capsized when the whichman was in the door (training exercise). I would have thought that a hi-line would be the favoured option, unless they weren’t clear on the state of the damage to the boat. 

You must have been sitting on an inflatable SUP. When an ocean liferaft has the ballast pockets full (which is automatic) they weigh hundreds of kilos without people aboard. No problems with chopper downdraft.

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Fucking tragic and I feel somewhat responsible for being the audience / fan / participant for a sport that killed the fisherman.  My condolences for your loss if you're a family member or friend.  And please understand this is Sailing Anarchy, not Sailing Nice-Nice.

Let's talk about maintaining a lookout. The sprit and headsail at 25+ degrees heel must have a blind spot of 30 degrees or more from any station on board that a sailor can maintain.  And that's if you regularly send a lookout to the leeward quarter and forward to the weather shrouds.  Even then, you still have a 30 deg blindspot, I think.  

How do they typically maintain a lookout?

 

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6 hours ago, cremedelameme said:

100% guarantee no maritime lawyers here this is painful to read.

There's at least one, but it's not Sailabout, Marin or anyone else talking about criminality, detention or bail (???) before anything of substance is known. 

 

Absolute nonsense.

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yep , this thread is past it's use by date .

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40 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Random thought from a sailor who knows little about fishing...  In fishing areas like where this occurred...  are some areas densely populated with fishermen while others are sparse or empty?  My impression is that fishermen congregate in areas where topography, currents, water temps, etc, make for the best fishing.  I'm wondering if perhaps some additional exclusion zones would enable boats to race to ports with dramatically reduced risk?

You sure do know little about fishing.

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14 minutes ago, littlechay said:

You must have been sitting on an inflatable SUP. When an ocean liferaft has the ballast pockets full (which is automatic) they weigh hundreds of kilos without people aboard. No problems with chopper downdraft.

seconded. one of our medevacs (don't ask...) the chopper requested we deploy a liferaft and evacuate from there rather than the yacht.

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StaySail! Good to see you here, care to share your thoughts about all this? 

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2 minutes ago, Elisa said:

StaySail! Good to see you here, care to share your thoughts about all this? 

Thanks.

It is a sad day. Francis is the one here who's posts I respect on this, and I have nothing to add.

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2 hours ago, AnotherSailor said:

What a tragedy, especially for the fisherman's family / loved ones.

I would not be surprised if the fishing boat was not properly lighted (if at all). The crews arriving in the dark were all well aware of the situation they were getting in and these are experienced sailors. I would be truly shocked if they did not have a proper lookout. Then again they were tired, but the adrenaline must have been high. I assume there is video footage.

Whatever the outcome the Vestas / 11th hour team must be devastated, and I assume the VOR will make changes to arrivals at night in busy ports. As suggested by others they can finish at sea, or they can be forced to wait until daybreak, then restart in the same order (which can get complicated if the fleet is spread out). Yes, who comes out at 3 am to see a boat finish in the dark? Hardly a spectacle.

There are a lot of great posts here, but some of you should consider removing some of your posts here. You can insult one another, yourself, and your own intelligence in other threads, but this is a tragedy. Please show some respect!

First you mumble the standard sympathy statement: "What a tragedy, especially for the fisherman's family / loved ones."

Next you immediately disparage them: "I would not be surprised if the fishing boat was not properly lighted (if at all)."

Then you assure your audience that it hardly possible Vestas may have contributed to the cause of the accident: "The crews arriving in the dark were all well aware of the situation they were getting in and these are experienced sailors. I would be truly shocked if they did not have a proper lookout.

With a disclaimer: "Then again they were tired, but the adrenaline must have been high."

And an assumption that has been discussed and pretty much been beaten to death for several pages: "I assume there is video footage."

In closing, you toss out a general insult for those who have been actively posting on an emotionally charge subject: "but some of you should consider removing some of your posts here. You can insult one another, yourself, and your own intelligence in other threads, but this is a tragedy."

Well, duh! Thanks for pointing that out. Some of us might have missed it.

And to top it off: "Please show some respect!"  Well, you too could show some respect.

Did I miss anything?

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54 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Fucking tragic and I feel somewhat responsible for being the audience / fan / participant for a sport that killed the fisherman.  My condolences for your loss if you're a family member or friend.  And please understand this is Sailing Anarchy, not Sailing Nice-Nice.

Let's talk about maintaining a lookout. The sprit and headsail at 25+ degrees heel must have a blind spot of 30 degrees or more from any station on board that a sailor can maintain.  And that's if you regularly send a lookout to the leeward quarter and forward to the weather shrouds.  Even then, you still have a 30 deg blindspot, I think.  

How do they typically maintain a lookout?

 

I don't know exactly what happened here,but I suspect that several understandable mistakes and assumptions  are the cause.

One thing for sure is that fishermen are more than capable of killing themselves without assistance from the sailing community. 

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Some more positive photos from the "winners are grinners"

26910430_1663630223702128_33567906218095

18836894_1663630200368797_79474302619070

26841542_1663630377035446_51098998653723

26841464_1663629783702172_30869554845710

26962228_1663629987035485_22578656651476

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, bower bird said:

I wonder if these boats could have port and starboard brake plates on the stern.

One or both could deploy from a split button on the hub of each wheel.

Not NASCAR.

The point would be to rip the stern of the boat so it sinks?

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36 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Some more positive photos from the "winners are grinners"

26910430_1663630223702128_33567906218095

18836894_1663630200368797_79474302619070

26841542_1663630377035446_51098998653723

26841464_1663629783702172_30869554845710

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WTF,

Someones father/brother/son has died. SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT. 

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15 minutes ago, Herman said:

Nice example. A lot of posters never seen before in the thread dumping their shit. And posting twice “positive photos” is a joke imho. Post a “positive photo” of the funeral of Mr. Xu and count the number of grins there. Unbelievable and tasteless.

You truely are an arsehole. The world does not stop because of one tragic incident. "Unbelievable and tasteless" would be posting a photo of the victim and joking about it. You must be one depressing arsewipe. Go take your depression to a Bruine café.

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1 minute ago, overlay said:

WTF,

Someones father/brother/son has died. SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT. 

Get a life, the world does not stop. So you are going to complain that team scallywag were out celebrating rather than looking somber?

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

On a more serious note.

For the RO it would have been an absolute shit fight today trying to workout who has investigatory jurisdiction between HK's Marine Accident Investigation Section (MAIS) and the Maritime Safety Administration of the People's Republic of China (CMSA) in Beijing. MAIS would have been demanding that they have it, which is horseshit, but maybe they went quiet as to even poor blind Freddy they had no jurisdiction.

That alone explains why not a lot of info is coming out of the RO on this incident.

I hate to say it as I'm not a great fan of one legged Turner, but his experience in this part of the world would have been very helpful to the RO and Vestas Team today.

I suspect a race friendly arrangement has now been nailed down today and details released tomorrow with no loss of face occuring on the island and in Beijing.

 

Just come in.

1000's of posts behind -

wouldn't it be lovely if people could find a way to speak their truth and love-

Live or die - a choice for humanity..

N best we sort it out cos otherwise we'll be ...... full stop

Jack's alright........

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To the depressing fuckers, take a look at this site and mourn every single death http://www.worldometers.info/

A tragic incident happened yes, no one is joking about the incident now that the magnitude of the incident is now known. No one is joking about the deceased. No one here personally knows the deceased or knows of them. People die constantly and the world moves on. If you dwell on every tragedy that you read about on the news or on a forum then you'll be so depressed that you'll be adding to the statistics soon enough.

 

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The people ragging on Witty for celebrating need to get some timeline in perspective. The NZ herald's article says the fisherman was confirmed dead at 0630 local; Scallywag finished at 0145 local. Inbetween those times who knows how much info they had. Probably "Vestas creamed a boat but are able to make it back under their own power all 10 souls from the other boat are accounted for and one has been medevaced." Enough for a pause and a round of "well we'd better save some for them that's a shame" but not party-ending news.

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8 minutes ago, cremedelameme said:

The people ragging on Witty for celebrating need to get some timeline in perspective. The NZ herald's article says the fisherman was confirmed dead at 0630 local; Scallywag finished at 0145 local. Inbetween those times who knows how much info they had. Probably "Vestas creamed a boat but are able to make it back under their own power all 10 souls from the other boat are accounted for and one has been medevaced." Enough for a pause and a round of "well we'd better save some for them that's a shame" but not party-ending news.

Amen - the world still turns.

They won the race.  since I have posted this 100 people died somewhere.

life goes on.

lighten up francis.

I meant this for the others - not creme

Edited by Code 2

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For busy ports what about a speed limit starting at the beginning of the congestion pre determined by VOR. 

Say 10 or 12 knots & time deducted if they go over so they have to stick to it.

The telemetry is good enough & could add some boat handling & tactics to the finish.

It would allow them to have on water finishes near the media & spectators.

Wouldnt be required for every finish like Auckland. 

Not all races end in enough breeze for it to come into play.

Would go along way in acknowledging the problem, making a change to make things safer for the skipper in terms of keeping a safe speed (colregs) too

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2 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Fucking tragic and I feel somewhat responsible for being the audience / fan / participant for a sport that killed the fisherman.  My condolences for your loss if you're a family member or friend.  And please understand this is Sailing Anarchy, not Sailing Nice-Nice.

Let's talk about maintaining a lookout. The sprit and headsail at 25+ degrees heel must have a blind spot of 30 degrees or more from any station on board that a sailor can maintain.  And that's if you regularly send a lookout to the leeward quarter and forward to the weather shrouds.  Even then, you still have a 30 deg blindspot, I think.  

How do they typically maintain a lookout?

 

Not to drone on

Had an extremely near miss in the Slowlent a couple of years or so ago - pleased to say we were going uphill but could easily have been the other way.

Impressed with the Fast 40's (possibly with the benefit of being larger boats) who always seemed to have a small person on the leeward quarter when going downhill.

Still, easy to manage that on a race lasting an hour in daylight ... - 17 days in, at night...?

Who would like to write the new rules... Colls or RRS?

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45 minutes ago, overlay said:

WTF,

Someones father/brother/son has died. SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT. 

Sure, stop the entire circus because of this tragic accident. Drama queen shit.

 

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Amazing how a tragedy attracts newbs to this forum.

RO, China, HK, Sweeeedes - one of you, take a lead.

Some poor bastard has paid with his life...........

 

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23 hours ago, southerncross said:

dumb luck?

What can’t Brian Hancock complain about?

Like many other sailors out there I have become a tad obsessed with the Volvo Ocean Race tracker especially at the start and finish of each leg. And I confess that in the last few days I have been keeping a close eye on the Hong Kong entry Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag. Some that read my stuff on a regular basis will know that I am not a big fan of David Witt, the skipper, although I have never met him and he may indeed be a great guy in person. 

I took exception to his comments about having women on board. He was originally against it not wanting to, as he put it, “participate in some kind of social experiment.” He has since had a change of heart and now there are two female sailors racing on board the good ship Scallywag. Annemieke Bes who has been there since the start, and more recently Libby Greenhalgh who replaced Steve Hayle as navigator.

So it was with mixed emotions that I watched Team Sun Hung Kai/Scallywag take line honors on the fourth leg into Hong Kong. There are, however, two things that I am happy about. I am happy that the local team won the leg that finished in their home port. It’s brutally hard to get sponsorship for an entry in the Volvo Ocean Race and I am sure that the people of Hong Kong will be more than chuffed that their local team was first across the line. I am also happy that the navigator was a female. Libby Greenhalgh is a very experienced sailor and I feel certain that their win was in no small part due to her experience and input.

Having said all that I hate to say what I am going to say next, but their win was pure dumb luck. The Scallywag crew were trailing the fleet for most of the leg. Maybe that was their strategy, but I doubt it. Being so far behind as the front runners approached the doldrums was a very nice gift. They were able to see the leaders sail into a hole, a total windless zone, and they sailed around all the other boats that were drifting aimlessly in circles. It must have been hell on board the leading boats to see the last place boat (by far) tack off in a different direction and do an end-run around the whole fleet.

But that’s sailing isn’t it? When sailing downwind the boats from behind bring the new breeze with them and the gap closes. Same goes for sailing upwind. The leading boats get into the new breeze first and leg out. We have all dealt with these kind of fluctuations, but seriously, have you ever seen the dead last boat catapult into first place in such a spectacular way? You can’t take anything away from them either. They played the cards that they were dealt and played them masterfully. I just hope that Mr. Witt gives his navigator credit where credit is due and does not grab all the attention for himself.

– Brian Hancock

 

22 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Why does SA continue to give Brian Hancock airtime? Clearly the guy is a tosser

Maybe he bought the 15 carbon cutters??

 

20 hours ago, southerncross said:

50907939188875943946.jpg

 

20 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Port bow impact on starboard tack so visibility forward and below with a lot of headsails up not flash.

At least they didn't do a "Hollywood".

 

18 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Tsing Yi is peppered with little boatyards - check out on Google Earth. My own boat was built thre as were two of the 1979 HK Admiral's Cup team which did rather well (3rd overall I think)

 

Including Vangard I think.

12 hours ago, manin said:

Really? Are they already repairing? Fastest survey and police investigation ever...

I really dont think a forensic inspection of Vestas hull will tell them much they don't already know.

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23 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

For busy ports what about a speed limit starting at the beginning of the congestion pre determined by VOR. 

Say 10 or 12 knots & time deducted if they go over so they have to stick to it.

The telemetry is good enough & could add some boat handling & tactics to the finish.

It would allow them to have on water finishes near the media & spectators.

Wouldnt be required for every finish like Auckland. 

Not all races end in enough breeze for it to come into play.

Would go along way in acknowledging the problem, making a change to make things safer for the skipper in terms of keeping a safe speed (colregs) too

Personally, that’s a shit idea. A slow drag race with a speed limit to the finish!!

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Just now, rogerfal said:

Amazing how a tragedy attracts newbs  vultures and trolls to this forum.

RO, China, HK, Sweeeedes - one of you, take a lead.

Some poor bastard has paid with his life...........

 

Fixed. 

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