duncan (the other one)

VOR Leg 4 Melbourne to Honkers

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13 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

They'll be forced to act Hoppy as the AC was. Ports are getting busier problem will increase & you don't want to see your favourite skipper locked up for breaking 3 Colregs. Kinda a fundamental when going to sea. 

You guys - you and Hoppy, are trying to address, in our first world (presumptuous and not necessarily true) reality a real issue.

Hats off - don't give up.. I'm getting long in the tooth but I'll back you so long you make sense....

Ironic this situation should arise in a place which comprises 1st, 2nd & 3rd.

PS - can anyone explain the 2nd world........ 

Having just seen the previous photo post I live in hope........

Fortunately I wasn't there....................

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3 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Gough is doing it wrong. 

He gets an A+ for effort and a F- for execution.

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Dongfeng and Brunel:

 

 

Bummer. He knows he's slow, but he doesn't yet know why. Got to be a tough position. 

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12 minutes ago, mad said:

Oh FFS, can’t some of you lot just fuck off back to America’s cup anarchy? 

I am afraid that's a faint hope Mad, all Kiwi hell is gone break loose in leg 6, guaranteed. And all Kiwi's are badly infected by the AC virus, or is it a cancer...

What this forum needs is a comprehensive filter. Like show no posts of posters with more than 1000 posts in the AC forum, or no posts without foul language, or no newby's without tits, or no post of people with >250 likey's. Get the idea?

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14 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

They'll be forced to act Hoppy as the AC was. Ports are getting busier problem will increase & you don't want to see your favourite skipper locked up for breaking 3 Colregs. Kinda a fundamental when going to sea. 

Let’s wait for all the facts before we start rewriting the event. 

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2 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

PS - can anyone explain the 2nd world........ 

I think that 2nd world are countries that think they are 1st world but so many aspects of their society is still 3rd world. Everyone only ever wants to admit to jumping from 3rd to 1st. 

 

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1 minute ago, hoppy said:

I think that 2nd world are countries that think they are 1st world but so many aspects of their society is still 3rd world. Everyone only ever wants to admit to jumping from 3rd to 1st. 

 

Sounds like many parts of Australia and the US. 

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

Sounds like many parts of Australia and the US. 

That's the outback and remote countyside. Most of us live in the capital cities and don't give a fuck about whats outside.

Although our broadband infrastructure in the cities is not even up to 3rd world standards :angry:

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14 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

What this forum needs is a comprehensive filter. Like show no posts of posters with more than 1000 posts in the AC forum, or no posts without foul language, or no newby's without tits, or no post of people with >250 likey's. Get the idea?

Call it insecurity but I'm not always sure about myself. No pleasant response required.

However greater than 250 likes may not be the way ahead (perhaps I got my port n stbd a about f). New blood n all that..

I posted some during the previous race and much more this time around.

It seems this thread regulates it'self - is that not a true state of anarchy.......

Though to be fair maybe we do have a boss.. 

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1 minute ago, hoppy said:

That's the outback and remote countyside. Most of us live in the capital cities and don't give a fuck about whats outside.

Although our broadband infrastructure in the cities is not even up to 3rd world standards :angry:

Careful, you only a couple of steps away from being a Shithole. :P

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Let’s wait for all the facts before we start rewriting the event. 

We shall see, based on the track, even if the fishing vessel was underway & lit Vestas still has a case to answer for under: 

Rule 2 

Rule 5 

Rule 6 

Rule 7

Rule 8

Rule 19

Of course the fishing vessel may well have broken a few that ultimately caused the problem, but you cannot plough into the car in front when you are not looking and blame it solely on lack of brake lights. 

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

Careful, you only a couple of steps away from being a Shithole. :P

I'd prefer to think Banana Republic.

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3 minutes ago, hoppy said:

That's the outback and remote countyside. Most of us live in the capital cities and don't give a fuck about whats outside.

Not giving a F about outside might be part of the problem.....

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4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

We shall see, based on the track, even if the fishing vessel was underway & lit Vestas still has a case to answer for under: 

Rule 2 

Rule 5 

Rule 6 

Rule 7

Rule 8

Rule 19

Of course the fishing vessel may well have broken a few that ultimately caused the problem, but you cannot plough into the car in front when you are not looking and blame it solely on lack of brake lights. 

Come on Scanas - we haven't got a :)ing clue what happened.

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7 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

We shall see, based on the track, even if the fishing vessel was underway & lit Vestas still has a case to answer for under: 

Rule 2 

Rule 5 

Rule 6 

Rule 7

Rule 8

Rule 19

Of course the fishing vessel may well have broken a few that ultimately caused the problem, but you cannot plough into the car in front when you are not looking and blame it solely on lack of brake lights. 

Was it underway?

Was it lit?

 

Have a day off from being a dick, you might even enjoy it. 

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24 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Fuck it, the safest option is to cancel the race all together and only race with official teams in the VOR game.

Great option! Reduced costs, more time for drunken parties in the stopovers, instant refereeing and penalties, special prices for the best hentai porn, more collisions, deaths, and keelhauling. Virtual limitless possibilities. 

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1 minute ago, rogerfal said:

Not giving a F about outside might be part of the problem.....

In terms of broadband, the politicians hunting votes pushed out the NBN (national broadband network) into the countryside for votes rather than rolling it out into the cities where they could get 1000's of times more paying subscribers early on in the roll out.

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I'm taking a guess that Scanas n Hoppy might be younger than Mad n I. Put me right....

I'll declare - 1961

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1 minute ago, rogerfal said:

I'm taking a guess that Scanas n Hoppy might be younger than Mad n I. Put me right....

I'll declare - 1961

Fuck! You’re old! :lol:

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1 minute ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Great option! Reduced costs, more time for drunken parties in the stopovers, instant refereeing and penalties, special prices for the best hentai porn, more collisions, deaths, and keelhauling. Virtual limitless possibilities. 

Rather than competing to get the boats to come to their port, the host cities will be trying to get the eSports event. No need to be a city on RTW route or even being near the coast

6361018672555427672035284_esports_1865bx 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Fuck! You’re old! :lol:

I've always said that you are only as old as the women you feel. So that makes me 1979 ;)

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1 minute ago, hoppy said:

I've always said that you are only as old as the women you feel. So that makes me 1979 ;)

and yes I stole that off Groucho Marx.

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5 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

I'm taking a guess that Scanas n Hoppy might be younger than Mad n I. Put me right....

I'll declare - 1961

I've got shoes older than that.

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Nothing wrong with that - was it him that said the thing about not being a member of...........anything that wanted him.............

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

I've got shoes older than that.

Send them my way then........... big bro

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4 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

lucky me ;)

JFK, no luck for me. I've been trying for 2018 years to get those nails out, and make a come back.

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I like to think old fuckers gave them the fear - any case all calm now.........

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1 hour ago, paps49 said:

 

Maybe he bought the 15 carbon cutters??

 

 

At least they didn't do a "Hollywood".

 

Including Vangard I think.

I really dont think a forensic inspection of Vestas hull will tell them much they don't already know.

You are right. Indeed Vanguard is alive and well in HK

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3 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Nothing wrong with that - was it him that said the thing about not being a member of...........anything that wanted him.............

Quote

 

Dear Board,

I don’t want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.

Sincerely yours,
Groucho Marx.

 

 

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Just now, Fiji Bitter said:

JFK, no luck for me. I've been trying for 2018 years to get those nails out, and make a come back.

Wondered where you were - on the veranda for a fat one or just busy about your day..

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1 minute ago, Sailabout said:

I wonder which American on board is listed as the Skipper?

FO, no questions asked here, only facts! And your age is?

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6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The locust munching ambulance chasing turnips disappeared as quickly as they appeared ....or do they only come out at night?

PS it is night

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We've got the track, the weather, the boat speed, the damage photos, nothing from Vestas media, a sunk fishing boat & a dead man. Suffice to say some Colregs were broken. 

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2 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

We've got the track, the weather, the boat speed, the damage photos, nothing from Vestas media, a sunk fishing boat & a dead man. Suffice to say some Colregs were broken. 

Who is this we? Are you included?

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3 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Wondered where you were - on the veranda for a fat one or just busy about your day..

Way too hot on deck and fat one's don't fit too well. Just a glass of whine and busy catching up right here, as you can see.

And you, no need to ask, we know!

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Who is this we? Are you included?

Apprentice perhaps...

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Just now, Fiji Bitter said:

No, it's not.

oh yes it is - oh no it's - oh..

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2 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

oh yes it is - oh no it's - oh..

Time for you to visit my clinic:

Cannot get enough of it...

 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Good night at the pub?

Gentle.

over 6 hours. finished work. 4 in town. 2 in the village.

landlords been given his marching orders. probably already sold for development. maybe the village want's to mobilise... will sleep on that one...

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26 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The locust munching ambulance chasing turnips disappeared as quickly as they appeared ....or do they only come out at night?

Come for the Volvo news, stay for the old dudes getting mad online. 

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4 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Counting not your strong suit huh? 

You start leg 5

ps hope you are not your avatar o-wise I could fall in lust - right on from Cornwall

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2 minutes ago, Wild Things said:

Come for the Volvo news, stay for the old dudes getting mad online. 

I'm chilled

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3 minutes ago, Wild Things said:

Come for the Volvo news, stay for the old dudes getting mad online. 

New forum filter is not working properly, it filters 1 tit instead of your post.

Image result for one tit

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18 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Gentle.

over 6 hours. finished work. 4 in town. 2 in the village.

landlords been given his marching orders. probably already sold for development. maybe the village want's to mobilise... will sleep on that one...

Charming pub and nice little village...are you the only one who drinks Barcardi & Coke?

 

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There never was a Friday show. They announced that in the quick fix earlier in the day. Typically there are no shows once the race is over. So no surprise here. Just the total lack of anything else. Easily enough time for the CEO team to have flown down now. It is getting very late for them to prove they have not dropped the ball. 

Ah, of course there is a timezone issue when we talk of this. I'm talking Oz time and thus days are relative to that. 

Edited by Francis Vaughan
Add Timezone clarification

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39 minutes ago, ALGEDI said:

The Volvo race website has removed the Daily live video show for Friday, and no Saturday show yet?

They are in lock-down to stop all leaks ..George Smiley is on the case hunting for Tom Ehman's mole.

images (50).jpeg

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4 hours ago, overlay said:

WTF,

Someones father/brother/son has died. SHOW SOME FUCKING RESPECT. 

Fuck off mate. VOR management need to release a joint statement in front of the media with all skipper sat behind them stating they will support any investigation, and the crew of Vestas. Their silence, other than

acknowledging the instance, has been piss poor. It came through plenty of media sources than the only one that mattered in this "live" event.

allow Scallywag to celebrate their achievement.

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52 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Charming pub and nice little village...are you the only one who drinks Barcardi & Coke?

 

I knew you'd do that..................... genuinely.....loalot

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50 minutes ago, ALGEDI said:

The Volvo race website has removed the Daily live video show for Friday, and no Saturday show yet?

No broadcast on Friday.

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From South China Morning Post

Andrew McNicol UPDATED : Saturday, 20 Jan 2018, 11:40PM

The fatal collision between a Volvo Ocean Race yacht and a fishing vessel east of Waglan Island, just outside Hong Kong waters, on Saturday has highlighted the dangers of racing in or around one of the busiest ports in the world.

Hong Kong was ranked the sixth-busiest port in the world from 2007-2016, according to the International Association of Ports and Harbours, with an estimated 300,000 to 400,000 vessels entering and leaving annually.

The Marine Department records a total of 18,540 Hong Kong-licensed vessels in 2016, an increase from 13,519 in 2007. Fishing carriers, sampans and vessels – class three vessels – make up 6,631 of the total. Figures for vessels from the mainland plying adjoining waters were not available but sailors’ accounts suggest they are numerous.

“When you sail out of Hong Kong on the first night, it’s a shocker,” said Hong Kong policeman Justin Shave, who has raced on Hong Kong boats Ragamuffin and Scallywag. “Fishing boats and nets are everywhere – it’s a nightmare.”

“They are extremely hard to predict and the navigation lights are not clear. Fishing vessels may drop miles of fishing lines in the water with sailing boats having to duck and weave through.”

Weaving through the heavy marine traffic and avoiding boats and fishing lines requires extra concentration at the best of times. Introduce seven 65-foot long, 10-storey high Volvo Ocean boats to the mix and the chance of accidents surely increases.

Former America’s Cup China team member and Hong Kong Catamarans project manager Thierry Barot said the competing sailing boats’ speed – travelling at roughly 20 to 30 knots – may have played a role in the collision, which killed one of the 10 fishing vessel crew members.

“The boats go over 20 knots, so the distance to see [in front of you] and react becomes shorter and shorter. It makes a difference, just like if you’re driving on the highway.

“When you spot something, the first thing to do is to identify what it is, where it’s going and where you’re going. You are always estimating with the resources and electronics on board, but the problem is that you’re going fast.”

But Barot is quick to defend the “pure” and “open” waters, insisting safety is at the top of every captain’s priority.

“These guys are professional and they know how to manage dramatic situations because there is a lot of training these days; safety and security,” said Barot. “Thirty years ago you just got on a boat, but now they have to pass their yacht masters and different safety exams.

“[Collisions] happen at sea, on the road, and in the air, everywhere. It was night time, the fishermen were doing their job and so were the sailors. It’s bad news for everyone, but the sea is for everyone – it must be shared.”

Robby Nimmo contributed to this report

d38e6784-fdc0-11e7-b2f7-03450b80c791_1280x720_191631.jpeg

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46 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Come on Scanas - we haven't got a :)ing clue what happened.

Indeed.

I have just had a ping from "Facebook Yacht Club" Tom Ehman posts on his Sailing illustrated "VOR: Details of the fishing boat collision, sinking, and rescue, courtesy of the South China Morning Post"

Talk about "I know a man who knows a man who was chatting to someone else who told his he heard etc etc.

 

Cheap and easy way to try and build your website.

And reading some of the responses, some clearly knowledgeable people but a lot seem to know much less than your average anachists - quite entertaining reading

SS

 

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5 minutes ago, Swanno said:

 

Certainly hit the BBC and some of the nationals here...

Completely agree on a VOR team* and skippers broadcast.

*With respect, Phil Lawrence, Conrad, Nial, Gonzalo, a Swede, poss other "race experts" plus...

To show respect, responsibility (due process non the less), compassion & humility, maybe with a view to looking forwards..

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

That gives the boats another 12 hours to collect a fishing boat or be collected by a tanker.

So you have a choice of trying to sleep whilst the boat is bobbing around doing SFA or sail for 2 or 3 more hours and get a proper sleep at the dock or in a hotel room.

What a winner idea.... 

 

So what do all of the finish out to sea supporters think they should do when the fleet pass through the top of the Philippines, stop and wait for daylight? after all there are probably plenty of fishing boats there.

Fuck it, the safest option is to cancel the race all together and only race with official teams in the VOR game. 

There is nothing to stop them moving out of harms way if necessary.

My experience is that when you are hove to the boats motion is a lot more comfortable than a boat doing 20 knots.

If you need to kill someone to continue your sport maybe it would be better to cancel the racing.

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2 minutes ago, Not Nice said:

The boats should probably have FLIR for navigating areas like this. It would help anyway 

Are many people using this at the moment. Military I suppose.

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1 minute ago, rogerfal said:

Are many people using this at the moment. Military I suppose.

Military and some commercial. They make marine specific cameras that you can get retail. Not cheap 10-15k but its a drop in the bucket if it saves lives

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So y'all think Vestas was travelling at a safe speed for the conditions with a lookout forward. Be sure to wake me when they post that OBR footage. 

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Just now, SCANAS said:

So y'all think Vestas was travelling at a safe speed for the conditions with a lookout forward. Be sure to wake me when they post that OBR footage. 

Can only speak for myself but isn't that part of the question?.. one of many questions..

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6 minutes ago, Not Nice said:

Military and some commercial. They make marine specific cameras that you can get retail. Not cheap 10-15k but its a drop in the bucket if it saves lives

Just about every motor yacht is flir equiped around the Salish sea and most every were now.

They start around $4000.

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2 minutes ago, rogerfal said:

Can only speak for myself but isn't that part of the question?.. one of many questions..

People seem to think that there is a version of events that exonerates Vestas. 

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Just now, SCANAS said:

People seem to think that there is a version of events that exonerates Vestas. 

Well that version doesn't exist .

Rule 2 stipulates that following the COLREGS to the letter of the rule does not exonerate a skipper from his responsibility to operate his vessel safely and in a seamanlike fashion.

Very difficult to find an example where one vessel was 100% responsible .

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1 minute ago, SCANAS said:

People seem to think that there is a version of events that exonerates Vestas. 

I've missed out on that. Poss I should go up thread some.

However unless I've missed something significant can only come back to not knowing any detail beyond that posted by VOR and the various media.

Clearly there are matters which need to be addressed and I hope they are not brushed under the carpet.

You know how I feel from my post just above.

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haven't seen 'em from that angle Ozzie

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look even more likely that the bow road up and over ...................

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28 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

There is nothing to stop them moving out of harms way if necessary.

My experience is that when you are hove to the boats motion is a lot more comfortable than a boat doing 20 knots.

If you need to kill someone to continue your sport maybe it would be better to cancel the racing.

Given that small fishing vessels and cruising yachts can be found well out from coastlines all over the world, where do you suggest that the VOR sail at night? Perhaps you want them to hove to every night?

lets cancel every sport that has killed a spectator, innocent bystander or competitor. Ooops there might not be any left.

btw, your experience??? I doubt from your attitude that you have ever tried to sleep on a boat doing 20 knots aside from a geriatrics cruise ship.

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and ffs how did you manage to get -10 Ozzie , sure is some sad folk on here .

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24 minutes ago, Ozee Adventure said:

Forgive me if I'm repeating, I only went back a couple of pages & people were busy measuring themselves so I gave up.

The like is a thanks for posting - I haven't seen these close ups - foam exposed - as observed by others much earlier it does look like the bow rode up over the other boat.

We must hear and see all of the evidence.

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32 minutes ago, Ozee Adventure said:

Forgive me if I'm repeating, I only went back a couple of pages & people were busy measuring themselves so I gave up.

26904302_10213542602932557_8395090553231048044_n.jpg

26805381_10213542621573023_7792253838479281193_n.jpg

Yikes, in my Imagination that looks like an up and over with the big hole in the side from something like the overhang of the bridge or a bloody big piece of equipment.   Yikes!   That bit at the waterline cut through and seems like it went through the first bulkhead.  Do fishing trawler designs in that part of the world include a double bow?  If not that looks like they went over the gunwale and into the structure on deck.

amazing shots thanks for the find.

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16 minutes ago, Mid said:

and ffs how did you manage to get -10 Ozzie , sure is some sad folk on here .

I got a divorce & stayed away a few years, when I came back in Dec we had scores (I was -33)  - I have no need for any numbers +ve or -ve xxx 

We STILL don't have a kiss emjoi

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1 hour ago, rogerfal said:

Are many people using this at the moment. Military I suppose.

Raytheon sold Raymarine about 10 years ago to FLIR Systems whose speciality is cameras.

They sell a great range of thermal imaging cameras between Euro 3k and 30k.

Putting aside additional weight and obstruction aloft, B&G who supply VOR don't make them which might have something to do with it.

http://www.flir.com/marine/m400/

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As unfortunate as it is, this type of incident regularly occurs in these waters.  The only difference on this occasion is that there's a wider audience that are aware of it (i.e. SA readers).
- Colregs - Local fisherman are not reading up on colregs, or correct use of nav lights.  It doesn't exist in these waters for many vessels.  
- Speed -  The official speed limit in some of the fairways and TSS's of HKG is 15kts, and that's in the restricted areas for commercial shipping (Panamax sized vessels).  Within the harbour it's 10kts.  When 30nm out in open seas and these mega ships are doing 20-25kts with limited steerage.    V11 was doing ~20kts.  It's not a factor.  EDIT: Not having an adequate watch or lookout from both boats is a factor.  The accident would likely not have happened if that had been followed, regardless of which vessel was 'at fault'.
- MRCC - HKG does it because China won't.  Having said that, if needed, you'd want the HKG MRCC coming to S&R as they are some of the best trained and resourced in the world.  Full confidence in their ability to get the job done (that of saving lives).  
- Last week there were 32 sailors that perished in China waters from one accident between a petroleum tanker and another vessel, that has also caused a massive oil slick and ecological disaster.  There's not much mention of that around here.
 

 

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