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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
kent_island_sailor

Misogyny in sailing?

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Clean seems to think sailing in general, perhaps SA, and definitely some of the posters on SA have issues with sexism and misogyny.

He could be correct and I think I found one example just now posted on the front page:

So this is what all the fuss is about?  This is cause for a Rule 69 protest? This is what Dawn Riley is butting her ample posterior into? Seriously?  Video subject to Fair Use on this subject but copyright credit to VOR…

Last I checked, Ms. Riley having a big ass (or not) is not a professional qualification to sail a boat or comment on same :rolleyes:

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it is funny to see a post about sexism being sexist, but would you expect anything else from them? 

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Are you inferring that I hate women? That's a fucking insult. And I don't hate Dawn Riley. I don't even know Dawn Riley, but Dawn Riley hates us. You should ask her why she hates us. It is a hell of a story. You really think i'm a misogynist because of the phrase that you highlighted? That's funny.

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27 minutes ago, Editor said:

Are you inferring that I hate women? That's a fucking insult. And I don't hate Dawn Riley. I don't even know Dawn Riley, but Dawn Riley hates us. You should ask her why she hates us. It is a hell of a story. You really think i'm a misogynist because of the phrase that you highlighted? That's funny.

 

                                    :mellow:

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31 minutes ago, Editor said:

Are you inferring that I hate women? That's a fucking insult. And I don't hate Dawn Riley. I don't even know Dawn Riley, but Dawn Riley hates us. You should ask her why she hates us. It is a hell of a story. You really think i'm a misogynist because of the phrase that you highlighted? That's funny.

So do we get to hear it then?

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This place is totally sexist.  If you don't believe it, show me your tits.  It isn't about hating woman, it is about respect. I can't image how woman feel looking at this site.  I find it offensive and it is pretty hard to offend me. 

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7 minutes ago, mad said:

So do we get to hear it then?

sadly, due to legal issues, i cannot. 

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6 minutes ago, allene222 said:

This place is totally sexist.  If you don't believe it, show me your tits.  It isn't about hating woman, it is about respect. I can't image how woman feel looking at this site.  I find it offensive and it is pretty hard to offend me. 

no it isn't. some of the content in the forum might be. clean and i are far from sexist. 

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Wasn't this all about Rule 69 issues?    Doesn't that rather speak for itself ?   Probably the only Rule that is correctly numbered.    When did SA lose its sense of humour?   Or did it ever have one.    SA  posting without humour  should be banned.     Can we get Al Franken to be a moderator ??

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> isn't sexist?

In your dreams mate... I would suggest to any female sailor that if they were to come on here above everything else they need to pretend to be male, and even then probably better not.

 

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7 minutes ago, Editor said:

sadly, due to legal issues, i cannot. 

*********** style legal issues?

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Clean seems to think sailing in general, perhaps SA, and definitely some of the posters on SA have issues with sexism and misogyny.

He could be correct and I think I found one example just now posted on the front page:

So this is what all the fuss is about?  This is cause for a Rule 69 protest? This is what Dawn Riley is butting her ample posterior into? Seriously?  Video subject to Fair Use on this subject but copyright credit to VOR…

Last I checked, Ms. Riley having a big ass (or not) is not a professional qualification to sail a boat or comment on same :rolleyes:

So if I say you have a big butt it is misandry?

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13 minutes ago, Editor said:

no it isn't. some of the content in the forum might be. clean and i are far from sexist. 

If I got the kind of posts in my forum that you get, I would delete them.  You need to take responsibility for what you own.

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Clean seems to think sailing in general, perhaps SA, and definitely some of the posters on SA have issues with sexism and misogyny.

He could be correct and I think I found one example just now posted on the front page:

So this is what all the fuss is about?  This is cause for a Rule 69 protest? This is what Dawn Riley is butting her ample posterior into? Seriously?  Video subject to Fair Use on this subject but copyright credit to VOR…

Last I checked, Ms. Riley having a big ass (or not) is not a professional qualification to sail a boat or comment on same :rolleyes:

Dennis Conner is.......... overqualified!

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2 minutes ago, allene222 said:

If I got the kind of posts in my forum that you get, I would delete them.  You need to take responsibility for what you own.

but you aren't me. i am a believer in free speech.

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11 minutes ago, hasher said:

So if I say you have a big butt it is misandry?

who cares? and who in the hell would be offended by it?

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Words and labels have no meaning anymore, and nothing is funny.

Misogyny, sexism, assault, harassment, “me too,” racism, bigotry, fascism, naziism, ablism, agism, blah blah blah.

”Journalists” have diluted and eroded the meaning of once potent words to the point where everyone is some form of “ist” or puveyor of an “ism.”  In the process, they did a huge disservice to victims of the acts and attitudes described by the original intended meanings of the words.

And now that the entire world is butthurt over every perceived ism, nothing is funny.

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40 minutes ago, Editor said:

no it isn't. some of the content in the forum might be. clean and i are far from sexist

Time after time after time after time what is on the front page puts the lie to that.  But, hey, I'm sure, some of your best friends are women.

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22 minutes ago, Whisper said:

Words and labels have no meaning anymore, and nothing is funny.

...snip...

And now that the entire world is butthurt over every perceived ism, nothing is funny.

Once upon a time a  fair few people thought Andrew Dice Clay was funny.  Now?

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Ed....Just FYI,

Clean was going on about misogyny and sexism in sailing in the now deleted thread, seemingly forgetting his caption contest involving a teen aged schoolgirl in a catholic school uniform, then the thread goes down the memory hole, and then Dawn Riley has a big ass :rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, monsoon said:

Once upon a time a  fair few people thought Andrew Dice Clay was funny.  Now?

I never liked him.

But dammit!  If people can’t laugh at themselves anymore, we’re fucked.

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1 hour ago, Editor said:

but you aren't me. i am a believer in free speech.

So.. if topless picts, crude language and other stuff can be left on in favor of free speech.. can we resurrect the deleted thread where jen was commenting?  Her comments were interesting... 

BTW, Free speech is a bummer.. It lets people you do not agree with say their mind.. YET... it allows you and others to show people who are speaking with a closed mind how much bigger the world is, and how ridiculous their perspective is.. or it helps one learn other’s perspective.

 

I am also in favor of free speech.  I have experienced first hand true dictatorships and real STASI tactics.....  and am grateful for all (imperfect as it is) that the United States of America provides...

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7 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Ed....Just FYI,

Clean was going on about misogyny and sexism in sailing in the now deleted thread, seemingly forgetting his caption contest involving a teen aged schoolgirl in a catholic school uniform, then the thread goes down the memory hole, and then Dawn Riley has a big ass :rolleyes:

Body shaming is not sexism.  That’s a different flavor of bullying.

Words used to have meaning.

My ass is big.  I will reduce it by New Years.  I’m a white male, therefore my comments about my ass cannot be any sort of ism.  We’re not allowed to be victims.

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Misogyny in sailing? Sadly, yes, it still exists. We are in the last third of the second decade of the Twenty First century and I know of male owners who would rather not sail their boats at all than have women, no matter their sailing ability or skill set, form part of their crew. Sadly, that still happens but fortunately those dinosaurs are becoming an increasingly scarce minority. 

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5 minutes ago, thereefgeek said:

My wife can bleed diesel quicker than most of you Nancies, so yeah, I'm a sexist against pussy men.

So, do normal tampons work?—or does she need the oil absorbant variety?

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2 minutes ago, Last Post said:

Misogyny in sailing? Sadly, yes, it still exists. We are in the last third of the second decade of the Twenty First century and I know of male owners who would rather not sail their boats at all than have women, no matter their sailing ability or skill set, form part of their crew. Sadly, that still happens but fortunately those dinosaurs are becoming an increasingly scarce minority. 

Frankly, I know nobody like that.  I race on boats with crews that are pretty evenly matched, and my own boats are 50/50 crews.

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1 hour ago, Editor said:

but you aren't me. i am a believer in free speech.

But you set the standards.  You own it and you have set limits.  It is just that you have chosen to set your standards very low.  Your site has a ranking 10 times higher than mine so I am in no position to tell you how to run your business.  Mine is close to Quantum Sails, yours close to West Marine.  More power to you.  But the net is that your site is extremely sexist.  One could argue it is more because of your inaction than action but as you can see even that would in fact get an argument.

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If we want to insure help make all feel welcome.. then.. perhaps the rules should be modified:

(from http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/announcement/22-abbreviated-rules/ )

Abbreviated rules

Zapata

By Zapata 
07/28/2017

 

Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version:

  1. Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses
  2. Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game.
  3. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7

If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.  

We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement.

Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.  

If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.

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I met Dawn about 10 yrs ago.  She was solid then.  I have zero doubt that she could beat the shit out of Ed.  She sailed around the world and he throws up on SD Bay.  Go figure.  Ed I like you and what you're doing with the SC33, but Dawn doesn't deserve this.  

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6 hours ago, Whisper said:

Words and labels have no meaning anymore, and nothing is funny.

Misogyny, sexism, assault, harassment, “me too,” racism, bigotry, fascism, naziism, ablism, agism, blah blah blah.

”Journalists” have diluted and eroded the meaning of once potent words to the point where everyone is some form of “ist” or puveyor of an “ism.”  In the process, they did a huge disservice to victims of the acts and attitudes described by the original intended meanings of the words.

And now that the entire world is butthurt over every perceived ism, nothing is funny.

Nah. Journalists write (or show) what newsworthy people say and do. Often they know it's bullshit. But if social "scientists" make up a new "ism," well it's new, and so it's news. That's not a comment on the validity of the new "ism," only a report that some scientists made one up. Don't confuse Hannity or Krugman (as examples) for journalists. They are talented, but they are in the entertainment business. When they talk about "ism's" they're just doing the same thing any other doofus with an opinion can do, just in a more entertaining way.

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6 hours ago, monsoon said:

Once upon a time a  fair few people thought Andrew Dice Clay was funny.  Now?

Howard Stern, Andrew Dice Clay, 2 Live Crew ... they were briefly funny in a mouth-hanging-open way. The outrage, the rule breaking. I laughed, even though I knew they were being needlessly mean  to whole groups of people who did nothing to deserve it except perhaps to be different. I feel a little guilty. Not really. The edginess being gone, they all just sound foolish now. Or maybe I got old.

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9 hours ago, Editor said:

but you aren't me. i am a believer in free speech.

Bull.  Shit.  You're all for speech that doesn't bother you.  But get under your skin ?  Ban.  

 

To put it another way,  you go after people who piss you off.  And sexism is clearly not on the list of things that do that. 

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7 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

I met Dawn about 10 yrs ago.  She was solid then.  I have zero doubt that she could beat the shit out of Ed.  She sailed around the world and he throws up on SD Bay.  Go figure.  Ed I like you and what you're doing with the SC33, but Dawn doesn't deserve this.  

Unfortunately Dawn decided this case, so she does deserve some of it, not the physical comments however.

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8 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

She sailed around the world and he throws up on SD Bay. 

Nelson got seasick.

If you use that to judge anything about sailors, that tells me everything I need to know about your sailing ability.

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11 hours ago, allene222 said:

But you set the standards.  You own it and you have set limits.  It is just that you have chosen to set your standards very low.  Your site has a ranking 10 times higher than mine so I am in no position to tell you how to run your business.  Mine is close to Quantum Sails, yours close to West Marine.  More power to you.  But the net is that your site is extremely sexist.  One could argue it is more because of your inaction than action but as you can see even that would in fact get an argument.

the only way there can be truly free speech and  standards of opinion that are not simply trolling,   is to end anonymity of posts......the agreement of membership should require publication of names/addresses/phone numbers in Profiles........anonymous opinions are seldom true opinions........

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34 minutes ago, GC&GC said:

the only way there can be truly free speech and  standards of opinion that are not simply trolling,   is to end anonymity of posts......the agreement of membership should require publication of names/addresses/phone numbers in Profiles........anonymous opinions are seldom true opinions........

That would end a lot of true opinions. Many of us have professional lives that require us NOT to say what we really think.

My whole reason for this thread is calling out SA on what appears to be a massively double standard. Ed (now) and Clean (old version) seem/seemed very much onboard with all kinds of "look how big her tits are, no PFD needed" stuff.  Well OK, sailors are like that. Then Clean gets on everyone for attacking the clueless duo because of misogyny, as if they would get a pass if they were men :rolleyes: So SA braintrust............which is it? I am on other squeaky-clean forums and I like them for what they are, but if SA wants to be that you'll all need to have a meeting and get a consistent message out ;)

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14 hours ago, Last Post said:

Misogyny in sailing? Sadly, yes, it still exists. We are in the last third of the second decade of the Twenty First century and I know of male owners who would rather not sail their boats at all than have women, no matter their sailing ability or skill set, form part of their crew. Sadly, that still happens but fortunately those dinosaurs are becoming an increasingly scarce minority. 

So true!  I used to crew on a boat, where the owner let me pick a guest helmsperson, when he was out of town.  He freaked out when I told him a woman was going to be driving!!  I told him, that she had won prestigious Cup, way back when he was still wearing short pant knickers!!  Shut him right down....

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17 hours ago, Editor said:

Are you inferring that I hate women? That's a fucking insult. And I don't hate Dawn Riley. I don't even know Dawn Riley, but Dawn Riley hates us. You should ask her why she hates us. It is a hell of a story. You really think i'm a misogynist because of the phrase that you highlighted? That's funny.

after reading the PA thread below, and then the ed's post here.... there seems to be a striking similarity 

 annnnd banned in 3....2.....1....

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6 minutes ago, mustang__1 said:

after reading the PA thread below, and then the ed's post here.... there seems to be a striking similarity 

"You think i hate women? I love women, I'm the most not sexist person there is, okay? I dont hate Dawn Riley, but she hates me, believe me! Believe me, she hates us so much, you should ask her why. Ask her! I dont even know her but she hates me, okay? You think I'm misogynist because I said she has a big ass? She does though, I've seen it. Never met her though, she hates me! Sad!"

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16 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

This site is one of the most sexist sites on the net.

+1 on this. There is good information on here, but I cant imagine many women would feel comfortable on here accessing in. Not a very good representation of the sport.

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18 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Clean seems to think sailing in general, perhaps SA, and definitely some of the posters on SA have issues with sexism and misogyny.

He could be correct and I think I found one example just now posted on the front page.

i'm not sure how this is surprising or how this is the one example you were able to find. there is literally and entire thread devoted to whether some sailor on youtube got a boob job or not.

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49 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

So true!  I used to crew on a boat, where the owner let me pick a guest helmsperson, when he was out of town.  He freaked out when I told him a woman was going to be driving!!  I told him, that she had won prestigious Cup, way back when he was still wearing short pant knickers!!  Shut him right down....

I think I’d decide never not to sail with or for dickheads like that, much the same as racist crew members. Though the last one was a long time ago, and was flicked the next day, with his flight ticket in hand. 

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@Editor Please google "forum code of conduct" to get some examples of what other sites do.  You can believe in free speech and still have some rules beyond don't out people and whatever the hell that first rule means.  

This can still be a great sailing forum without being offensive to half the population.  You just need to set some reasonable standards.  Free speech has limits, always has.  They just need to be defined appropriately.

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

I think I’d decide never not to sail with or for dickheads like that, much the same as racist crew members. Though the last one was a long time ago, and was flicked the next day, with his flight ticket in hand. 

Racist, who said anything about racist? Stay on point. The vid is two blokes having a go for fuck sake.

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4 minutes ago, allene222 said:

@Editor Please google "forum code of conduct" to get some examples of what other sites do.  You can believe in free speech and still have some rules beyond don't out people and whatever the hell that first rule means.  

This can still be a great sailing forum without being offensive to half the population.  You just need to set some reasonable standards.  Free speech has limits, always has.  They just need to be defined appropriately.

banning posting pornographic pics would be a good start, but I'm new here....

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36 minutes ago, freewheelin said:

 Not a very good representation of the sport.

This is partially semantics, but the phrase "good representation" here is really imprecise and can be taken in a variety of ways and should be adjusted. If you are trying to say that SA does not provide a favorable projection of the sport or its participants, you are right. The unsanitized, uncensored look at sailing can be pretty rough.  If you are trying to say that SA does not provide an accurate representation of the sport or its participants I disagree. SA is an accurate reflection of sailing, which is a reflection of society as a whole.

We're no better or worse than golfers, hockey players, footballers, cyclists etc. (We are better than power boaters and jetski enthusiasts though - that is evident).  A big difference here is that in our sport, in contrast to most, men and women increasingly compete together, even at the highest levels. There will always be assholes, and as long as there are assholes, there will be run-ins. A single drop of sewage in a barrel of excellent wine makes a barrel of sewage. There are more than a few turds floating in the punchbowl of SA, but that's probably proportional to the broader population. The danger of loosely-moderated forums is that the turds can spread their taint far and wide, relatively unchecked. The benefit is that we can look at the reflection of ourselves as a society, consider that our wine barrel contains sewage, and try to do something about it. We can readily identify the turds here, and we are free to engage or not, ignore or not, ostracize if we see fit, etc.

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And for what it's worth, an ample posterior is an asset (no pun intended) for a crew member, male or female, provided they can get it to the fucking high side and under the lifeline in a timely fashion.

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18 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

having a big ass (or not) is not a professional qualification to sail a boat or comment on same :rolleyes:

Here’s an actual provable qualification. For equal crew weight, carrying in the hips is less hiking moment than upper body. 

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5 minutes ago, ajbram said:

This is partially semantics, but the phrase "good representation" here is really imprecise and can be taken in a variety of ways and should be adjusted. If you are trying to say that SA does not provide a favorable projection of the sport or its participants, you are right. The unsanitized, uncensored look at sailing can be pretty rough.  If you are trying to say that SA does not provide an accurate representation of the sport or its participants I disagree. SA is an accurate reflection of sailing, which is a reflection of society as a whole.

We're no better or worse than golfers, hockey players, footballers, cyclists etc. (We are better than power boaters and jetski enthusiasts though - that is evident).  A big difference here is that in our sport, in contrast to most, men and women increasingly compete together, even at the highest levels. There will always be assholes, and as long as there are assholes, there will be run-ins. A single drop of sewage in a barrel of excellent wine makes a barrel of sewage. There are more than a few turds floating in the punchbowl of SA, but that's probably proportional to the broader population. The danger of loosely-moderated forums is that the turds can spread their taint far and wide, relatively unchecked. The benefit is that we can look at the reflection of ourselves as a society, consider that our wine barrel contains sewage, and try to do something about it. We can readily identify the turds here, and we are free to engage or not, ignore or not, ostracize if we see fit, etc.

You and mark set can always go over to scuttlebutt if you want a sanitized version of the sport. No one is forcing you to post here.

Oh Mark set.

Fuck off newb and show us your GF tits. (its a historical welcome)...

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3 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

You and mark set can always go over to scuttlebutt if you want a sanitized version of the sport. No one is forcing you to post here.

Oh Mark set.

Fuck off newb and show us your GF tits. (its a historical welcome)...

I've been reading for a month before i started posting so i knew what i was in for. Just a suggestion, i'd rather not have porn randomly pop up while im at work. 

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8 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Fuck off newb and show us your GF tits. (its a historical welcome)...

No its not, its just some crap a bunch of newbies made up. There was nothing like that on the real SA forum.

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9 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

You and mark set can always go over to scuttlebutt if you want a sanitized version of the sport. No one is forcing you to post here.

I wasn't suggesting I wanted the sanitized version. I just see how it could be rough for the uninitiated. 

Like i said, we can see what we are in for, and decide for ourselves whether to engage with it or not. As an example, I have decided to reply to you and congratulate you on remembering to welcome Mark Set appropriately. If i was offended by you being an offensive fuckwit and decided that I felt bad for Mark Set I could have just sat here and watched the tirade unfold. Instead I am participating.

Mark Set, Fuck off Newb (think of it as a secret handshake).

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13 minutes ago, Mark Set (BIMBO Local 713) said:

I've been reading for a month before i started posting so i knew what i was in for. Just a suggestion, i'd rather not have porn randomly pop up while im at work. 

If you knew what you were in for, then you can predict the type of images that will show up as you scroll through the annals of SA. This is not a random occurrence.

If porn is randomly popping up while you were at work - truly a random occurrence, you are surfing too much porn on your work computer. Please wipe down your keyboard and for fuck's sake wash your hands before lunch.

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22 minutes ago, GC&GC said:

Deep State versus Newbies.......lovely.......what's the demarcation point?  5,000 posts ?   

it's about 1.2 quid pro quo^2 less than a parsec 

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13 minutes ago, GC&GC said:

Deep State versus Newbies.......lovely.......what's the demarcation point?  5,000 posts ?   

You're having trouble getting to 500 on any one account. Try getting flicked less often.

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For some people this is a very important and serious issue which greatly impacts their lives.

For others, well they just can’t understand why everybody is getting all bent out of shape over what they consider to be regular, normal and ordinary – a big nothing.

One of the recurring difficulties with this issue are the women who wait decades before making their allegations. At least Dawn did not wait, she let her feelings be known immediately, so there’s that.

Not to be dismissive, but it does seem that alleging sexual harassment is the trendy thing for women to do today. Almost as if they are caught up in the moment and feel obligated to make some sort of allegation about something, anything, just so they can be a part of the conversation.

victim.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Parma said:

For some people this is a very important and serious issue which greatly impacts their lives.

For others, well they just can’t understand why everybody is getting all bent out of shape over what they consider to be regular, normal and ordinary – a big nothing.

One of the recurring difficulties with this issue are the women who wait decades before making their allegations. At least Dawn did not wait, she let her feelings be known immediately, so there’s that.

Not to be dismissive, but it does seem that alleging sexual harassment is the trendy thing for women to do today. Almost as if they are caught up in the moment and feel obligated to make some sort of allegation about something, anything, just so they can be a part of the conversation.

victim.jpg

Calling it a trend trivializes something that is much more complex and is dismissive whether you were trying to be or not. I'm sure there is a very real heightened sensitivity to all things misogynistic or patriarchal at the moment. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore the more pervasive climate that has led to that level of sensitivity. I don't get pissed at my wife for leaving half-full glasses of water all over the house,  but when it's part of a pattern that consists of more egregious examples of forgetfulness (leaving the house with doors open, leaving stove on, forgetting to feed dog) I feel justified in reacting more strongly than would normally be appropriate for a few water glasses. I'm not saying that "garden variety" harassment is ever ok, but when society has gotten to a point that the pattern has resulted in a president who openly brags about his pussy-grabbing exploits and publicly extolls the merits of electing pedophiles to office, we have to acknowledge that things have gotten out of hand to the point that making examples of relatively benign behaviour is well-justified. 

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21 minutes ago, ajbram said:

Calling it a trend trivializes something that is much more complex and is dismissive whether you were trying to be or not. I'm sure there is a very real heightened sensitivity to all things misogynistic or patriarchal at the moment. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore the more pervasive climate that has led to that level of sensitivity. I don't get pissed at my wife for leaving half-full glasses of water all over the house,  but when it's part of a pattern that consists of more egregious examples of forgetfulness (leaving the house with doors open, leaving stove on, forgetting to feed dog) I feel justified in reacting more strongly than would normally be appropriate for a few water glasses. I'm not saying that "garden variety" harassment is ever ok, but when society has gotten to a point that the pattern has resulted in a president who openly brags about his pussy-grabbing exploits and publicly extolls the merits of electing pedophiles to office, we have to acknowledge that things have gotten out of hand to the point that making examples of relatively benign behaviour is well-justified. 

1) I did not call it a trend, I called the trendy. Nobody would deny that today's conversation about sexual harassment is very trendy.

2) I'm specifically not being dismissive of the subject as a whole but, like it or not, I have to agree with the editors comment that the given behavior does not seem to meet the reasonable person standard for a case of harassment.

3) Making an example of benign behavior is not justified, it's a witch hunt.

But yes, I generally agree with what I perceived to be your sentiments. It would be nice if more people would act in a more restrained fashion so the rest of us don't have to exist in an uncomfortable setting.

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Lets get over this one incident - it may be the VOR but its really just a small offshore fleet with a bunch of CAT3s on used boats. They aren't even selling anything (you can't say North is outsailing Doyle here, maybe they were just the lowest bidder).  The ONLY thing of interest is the human aspect, else they wouldn't be putting such effort into the media.Yes, this probably shouldn't have been put on the website, but neither should much of the drudgery they do put out there (maybe fire the onboard video editor!?)

To get up close and personal, and then call Rule 69 on a light hearted ribbing is way too politically correct. Crotch rot happens and they were just  making light ofsome of  the problmes on board in an offshore race.Yes, it happens to be happening during an inopportune time when key political types are getting thrown out of office  (rightfully) due to their power trips over women. A little ribbing does not cross that line.

My daughter had some friends over and they asked if I wanted to join the conversation on tampons vs pads - as was the girl in the video, I was a little tongue tied - but to get all hung up on this video as the/a key problem in sailing, no.

 

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29 minutes ago, Parma said:

1) I did not call it a trend, I called the trendy. Nobody would deny that today's conversation about sexual harassment is very trendy.

OK.... however, you didn't say the conversation was trendy... you said "alleging sexual harassment" was trendy. See below. To me, "trendy" means that people are doing it because it's fashionable. That's like not really thinking fedoras are good-looking, but wearing theb because the trendy hipsters are wearing them. I think the women who are speaking out have had these things happen to them and feel safe and empowered to finally say something they have been feeling for a long time since others are doing it. Like a socially constructive analogue of the bigoted statements being spewed by some now that the Trumpster has legitimized sentiments that they have held for a long time.

2) I'm specifically not being dismissive of the subject as a whole but,

I'm not trying to pick bones or argue with you, but just to shed light on this. I am glad you are not trying to dismiss the subject as a whole, but calling alleging sexual harassment "trendy" is dismissive of the claims of the victims.

like it or not, I have to agree with the editors comment that the given behavior does not seem to meet the reasonable person standard for a case of harassment.

I agree. The video is pretty innocuous. If the complainers had experienced the crotch rot that accompanies multiple days in your foulies and long hours sitting on the rail, they would have seen this in a different light.

3) Making an example of benign behavior is not justified, it's a witch hunt.

Maybe i wasn't completely clear here.... falsely making an example of truly benign behaviour (like in the video) is a witch hunt. What I meant by "relatively benign" was that making a sexist joke in front of a female crew member, while not appropriate, doesn't rise to the level of pussy grabbing. It's RELATIVELY benign. In light of the current climate, maybe a lack of tolerance for RELATIVELY benign behaviour is justified.

But yes, I generally agree with what I perceived to be your sentiments. It would be nice if more people would act in a more restrained fashion so the rest of us don't have to exist in an uncomfortable setting.

 

1 hour ago, Parma said:

Not to be dismissive, but it does seem that alleging sexual harassment is the trendy thing for women to do today.

 

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19 hours ago, Editor said:

no it isn't. some of the content in the forum might be. clean and i are far from sexist. 

You do control the front page though, and that is often at least as sexist as the forums.

Example post: http://sailinganarchy.com/2017/10/29/welcome-to-lisbon/

What is this doing besides objectifying women?  How are posts like this supposed to make all sailors feel welcome to this site?

Sailing Anarchy is one of the primary (if not the primary) sources for information on competitive sailing on the internet, and having the front page be a major turnoff for over half the population isn't going to help people think that sailing is free of misogyny.

Thankfully I don't run into the same stuff in my day to day interactions with local sailors...

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Seriously?  The standard response to new people on this site is "show us your wife's tits".

And you expect women to be comfortable here?  In this thread one guy already tried to be funny about tampons. It's crude and juvenile. Is it ILLEGAL?  Probably not. So if it's not illegal, there's no problem, right?  I mean, that seems to be the operating system. If it's not illegal, then it's good.

Dudes bellow "Where's your sense of humour?".   My response is to roll my eyes, 'cause if by now you can't figure out that being a juvenile asshole is not going to win you points in the world, then I really can't help you.  If you're 50 years old and you still haven't figured it out then nothing I'm going to write is going to make any difference.

There's an ongoing advertising point on Sailing Anarchy, which is that those other guys are "sanitized" and "we're better than they are" and "we tell it like it is". I have news for folks.... being a juvenile asshole is NOT the same thing as being a realistic reporter.   Clean / Ed. you could have written the article about whatever rule/infraction the Dawn Riley was protesting WITHOUT the comment about her ass.  The comment about her ass added exactly nothing to the content of that article. NOTHING.  All it did was show what YOU are like, rather than anything about Dawn  Riley, the infraction being investigated, or anything else.

Upshot was, I read that front page article and I thought again about whether I really want to spend time on this site. Do I want to support a site where a significant number of the participants think it's funny to make tampon jokes and the site editor/owner makes comments about Dawn Rileys butt?  I didn't post here for about 5 years for the reason that I just didn't want to be associated with juvenile shit like that.  I'm back for now, but the more I see "show us your girlfriends tits" ...or comments like  they guy above who asked if another participants wife needed oil absorbent tampons, the harder it becomes to participate.

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1 hour ago, ajbram said:

Calling it a trend trivializes something that is much more complex and is dismissive whether you were trying to be or not. I'm sure there is a very real heightened sensitivity to all things misogynistic or patriarchal at the moment. But that doesn't mean that we should ignore the more pervasive climate that has led to that level of sensitivity. I don't get pissed at my wife for leaving half-full glasses of water all over the house,  but when it's part of a pattern that consists of more egregious examples of forgetfulness (leaving the house with doors open, leaving stove on, forgetting to feed dog) I feel justified in reacting more strongly than would normally be appropriate for a few water glasses. I'm not saying that "garden variety" harassment is ever ok, but when society has gotten to a point that the pattern has resulted in a president who openly brags about his pussy-grabbing exploits and publicly extolls the merits of electing pedophiles to office, we have to acknowledge that things have gotten out of hand to the point that making examples of relatively benign behaviour is well-justified. 

Top of page......underdawg says..... " Don't insinuate Pedo" ........ where are the Moderators?   This is Pedo pos/neg  opinion..... Why do you Democrats spend all your time fixated on Pedo"s......its a pattern.......its egregious......its pervasive climate......heightened sensitivity......patriarchal........whose your daddy????

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12 minutes ago, GC&GC said:

Top of page......underdawg says..... " Don't insinuate Pedo" ........ where are the Moderators?   This is Pedo pos/neg  opinion..... Why do you Democrats spend all your time fixated on Pedo"s......its a pattern.......its egregious......its pervasive climate......heightened sensitivity......patriarchal........whose your daddy????

You sir are a fucking idiot.

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It's sad, you know?  First of all, the site is significantly more grown-up and less constantly asshole  than it was 7-8 years ago.

I have a thread going in Fix-It anarchy about a rudder I'm building and it's absolutely great. I mean....fantastic. Guys are sharing tons of insights, sources for materials, experiences. I'm blown away. THAT is what SA could be, and sometimes is.

But then you go to the General Anarchy page and see "show us your wifes tits" and "I hate it when women flush tampons down my head" and comments about how some guys wife needs medical attention. hahahahaha. You look at the front page and see comments about Dawn Rileys ample butt.

Yeah, that's hard-hitting sailing journalism. That's what makes SA so so so much better than those other sailing sites. Um....

No.

I don't expect it to change. But the eds should probably understand that at least for me, every time I see stuff like that I reconsider..."do I really want to participate in that?  Is the good stuff worth the bad stuff?"

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20 hours ago, Jammer Six said:

This site is one of the most sexist sites on the net.

Location: Seattle.

"Black Lives Matter" and "Proud to live in a sanctuary city" in the signature.

 

...how's your heart, Jammer? Bloody, by any chance?

                                                                                                                                            

 

There's a big divide between sexism as an attitude and sexism as an institution. Sailing as a sport with lots of older men has a great deal of attitudinal sexism. Some women take that better than others; I've heard more than a few guys told off for being assholes. That said, who doesn't have to deal with some crassness? If you can't brush it off or tell the person to go fuck themselves then you might have an oversensitivity problem. Stupid comments that don't cross the line into physical harassment are harmless and are reflective of ignorance. The last thing we should be doing is encouraging folks to let other people's ignorance dictate their feelings.

 

Sexism as a purposive institution designed to keep women out of sailing is different entirely. The level of participation of women in sailing in the high school and collegiate levels seems to suggest that no such thing exists. There are any number of famous female sailors and although there are less women than men doing it at the highest professional level that doesn't change the fact that women can and do choose to become professional sailors. Why just restrict our discussion to sailing, however? Why don't we talk about getting more men in field hockey, or volleyball, or any number of women-dominated sports? Why don't we talk about getting more men in school in the first place, or raising men's graduation rate to match women's?

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2 hours ago, ajbram said:

If you knew what you were in for, then you can predict the type of images that will show up as you scroll through the annals of SA. This is not a random occurrence.

If porn is randomly popping up while you were at work - truly a random occurrence, you are surfing too much porn on your work computer. Please wipe down your keyboard and for fuck's sake wash your hands before lunch.

sorry, no, when im reading a forum about sailing (as rude as it may be) and occasionally someone posts pron for no apparent reason than their own puerile interest (which happens no matter the subject) then thats difficult to predict which makes it random. But like i said, Im still just a visitor here as it is, so do whatever you want. but as long as we are making recommendations to mods about what should be allowed im gunna chime in about that. so fuck all yall and show me your tits.

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1 minute ago, Mark Set (BIMBO Local 713) said:

sorry, no, when im reading a forum about sailing (as rude as it may be) and occasionally someone posts pron for no apparent reason than their own puerile interest (which happens no matter the subject) then thats difficult to predict which makes it random. But like i said, Im still just a visitor here as it is, so do whatever you want. but as long as we are making recommendations to mods about what should be allowed im gunna chime in about that. so fuck all yall and show me your tits at a pre-appointed convenient time for me within a sanctioned, designated forum so that I don't accidentally have to peruse said tits in front of my boss.

Fixed it for you

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37 minutes ago, Alan H said:

Seriously?  The standard response to new people on this site is "show us your wife's tits".

And you expect women to be comfortable here?  In this thread one guy already tried to be funny about tampons. It's crude and juvenile. Is it ILLEGAL?  Probably not. So if it's not illegal, there's no problem, right?  I mean, that seems to be the operating system. If it's not illegal, then it's good.

Dudes bellow "Where's your sense of humour?".   My response is to roll my eyes, 'cause if by now you can't figure out that being a juvenile asshole is not going to win you points in the world, then I really can't help you.  If you're 50 years old and you still haven't figured it out then nothing I'm going to write is going to make any difference.

There's an ongoing advertising point on Sailing Anarchy, which is that those other guys are "sanitized" and "we're better than they are" and "we tell it like it is". I have news for folks.... being a juvenile asshole is NOT the same thing as being a realistic reporter.   Clean / Ed. you could have written the article about whatever rule/infraction the Dawn Riley was protesting WITHOUT the comment about her ass.  The comment about her ass added exactly nothing to the content of that article. NOTHING.  All it did was show what YOU are like, rather than anything about Dawn  Riley, the infraction being investigated, or anything else.

Upshot was, I read that front page article and I thought again about whether I really want to spend time on this site. Do I want to support a site where a significant number of the participants think it's funny to make tampon jokes and the site editor/owner makes comments about Dawn Rileys butt?  I didn't post here for about 5 years for the reason that I just didn't want to be associated with juvenile shit like that.  I'm back for now, but the more I see "show us your girlfriends tits" ...or comments like  they guy above who asked if another participants wife needed oil absorbent tampons, the harder it becomes to participate.

Easy, don't.

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26 minutes ago, Alan H said:


I have a thread going in Fix-It anarchy about a rudder I'm building and it's absolutely great. I mean....fantastic. Guys are sharing tons of insights, sources for materials, experiences. I'm blown away. THAT is what SA could be, and sometimes is.

This is it exactly.  I deal with/ignore the misogyny here because there are nuggets (including your rudder thread) where I learn a lot of stuff.  I've also met some people on here who I've had fun sailing with (or competing against) in real life.

I'm glad that the recent headline news on this stuff has brought this up as a discussion on here.  I've always seen it shot down quickly when raised in the past.

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3 minutes ago, Movable Ballast said:

Easy, don't.

Absolutely right.  And I didn't for about 5-6 years.  I might not, again. Not sure. But every time I drop in to SA, I have to think..."do I want to be anywhere near this?"

Funny, I don't think that every time I go look at Pressure Drop, the SSS forum, or the Wooden Boat Forum.

But you are absolutely right. If I don't like it, then I can leave, right?  You bet.

 

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Moveable Ballast, the thing is, lots of people take your approach.  You don't like it? Nobody is forcing you to be here, get the 'F out.

The problem with that outlook is that it's black and white. It's all bad, or it's all good.  Either SA is 'f'ing great, or it sucks completely in every way.   Either you're here, or you're not.  There's no room in that approach for "Hey, let's make it better".  or  some stuff is awesome, but some of it just bites...

Personally, I think SA could be BETTER.  Not perfect, but better, if people would just shut up with a lot of the assholery. There's good stuff here, too.

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