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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
badlatitude

Arm Touching is 'Battery' Worthy of Lawsuit

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A Republican has a snowflake meltdown.

 

Conservative state Rep. Daryl Metcalfe wants everyone to know that he’s heterosexual, has a wife, and doesn’t want to be touched — at least not by a male colleague.

The Republican from Butler County made that clear Tuesday during a meeting of the House committee he chairs.

Mr. Metcalfe’s comments, captured on video, came after the committee’s ranking Democrat, Rep. Matt Bradford of Montgomery County, was trying to make a point about a bill having to do with land use and, for a split second, put his hand on Mr. Metcalfe’s left forearm. The two were seated side by side at a conference table.

“Representative Bradford,” said Mr. Metcalfe, interrupting Mr. Bradford in mid-sentence. “Look, I’m a heterosexual. I have a wife, I love my wife. I don’t like men, as you might. But stop touching me all the time.”

He then added: “It’s like, keep your hands to yourself. Like, if you want to touch somebody, you have people on your side of the aisle that might like it. I don’t.”

A shocked Mr. Bradford — who, according to his official biography, is married to a woman and has four children — began laughing.

“We are officially off the rails,” Mr. Bradford said, as his colleagues began erupting in laughter and one sitting next to him put her hand up to shield her face from a video camera. “My intent was just to beg for your permission for about 30 seconds.”

“Then beg, don’t touch,” Mr. Metcalfe retorted.

Mr. Bradford responded: “I don’t know where we go from here.”

In an interview Tuesday afternoon, Mr. Metcalfe said that Mr. Bradford for months has been “continually reaching out and touching me,” and that he has asked him to stop.

“If someone touches another person, and they say, ‘stop touching me,’ and they don’t stop, that’s serious business,” Mr. Metcalfe said.

Where he comes from, Mr. Metcalfe added, such behavior could constitute battery — and would justify someone defending himself.

Mr. Bradford, for his part, said that when he reached out to touch Mr. Metcalfe, he was simply attempting to “restrain him so I could finish my thought.” Mr. Metcalfe has been known to shut down colleagues who talk for too long — or who express views that are antithetical to his.

Mr. Bradford was adamant about one thing: He was not making a pass at the Republican chairman.

“I have no idea what goes on in his head,” Mr. Bradford said of Mr. Metcalfe, “and some days I’m glad for that.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2017/12/05/Daryl-Metcalfe-Republican-conservative-heterosexual-Pennsylvania-House/stories/201712050160

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That shit gets old fast. The clip makes Metcalf look bad but betcha this has been going on for awhile as he suggests.

And what's with all the metrosexual man hugs these daze?

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2 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

That shit gets old fast. The clip makes Metcalf look bad but betcha this has been going on for awhile as he suggests.

And what's with all the metrosexual man hugs these daze?

Maybe you just exude a certain...... Aura.... Maybe you're sending gay signals that you aren't even aware of.

Do you often put a cowboy bandana in your back pocket for no apparent reason?

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9 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Metcalfe. Closet queer! No doubt!

 

Gayer than a rainbow.

 

Dude doth protest too much'eth

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27 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Maybe you just exude a certain...... Aura.... Maybe you're sending gay signals that you aren't even aware of.

Do you often put a cowboy bandana in your back pocket for no apparent reason?

Yuk yuk yuck!

It's pussifcation. It's generational, pussy. Get off my arm.

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As an Italian, my hands are part and parcel of my speech.  I was raised in a family that was expressive, both vocally and physically.  We say "I love you" and we hug.  When I shake your hand, I will often hold your elbow with my other hand.  When we talk, I'll often make physical contact.  It's how I interact.  Never once has anyone suggested such contact was unwelcome.  In fact, more than a few friends have admitted they are more expressive as a result of our interactions.

I am also happily married with two children.  I mean nothing romantic or sexual in my touch.  I will say I do not interact with my students in this fashion.  I am known for "high fives" and "fist bumps" in the hallway and the classroom.  Nothing more than a tap.

That Mr. Metcalfe used the contact as an opportunity to imply Mr. Bradford "likes men" is pathetic.

 

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8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

As an Italian, my hands are part and parcel of my speech.  I was raised in a family that was expressive, both vocally and physically.  We say "I love you" and we hug.  When I shake your hand, I will often hold your elbow with my other hand.  When we talk, I'll often make physical contact.  It's how I interact.  Never once has anyone suggested such contact was unwelcome.  In fact, more than a few friends have admitted they are more expressive as a result of our interactions.

I am also happily married with two children.  I mean nothing romantic or sexual in my touch.  I will say I do not interact with my students in this fashion.  I am known for "high fives" and "fist bumps" in the hallway and the classroom.  Nothing more than a tap.

That Mr. Metcalfe used the contact as an opportunity to imply Mr. Bradford "likes men" is pathetic.

 

Not just Bradford, but the rest of his party. Metcalfe is a doofus and quite possibly a closet queen.

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10 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

As an Italian, my hands are part and parcel of my speech.  I was raised in a family that was expressive, both vocally and physically.  We say "I love you" and we hug.  When I shake your hand, I will often hold your elbow with my other hand.  When we talk, I'll often make physical contact.  It's how I interact.  Never once has anyone suggested such contact was unwelcome.  In fact, more than a few friends have admitted they are more expressive as a result of our interactions.

I am also happily married with two children.  I mean nothing romantic or sexual in my touch.  I will say I do not interact with my students in this fashion.  I am known for "high fives" and "fist bumps" in the hallway and the classroom.  Nothing more than a tap.

That Mr. Metcalfe used the contact as an opportunity to imply Mr. Bradford "likes men" is pathetic.

 

That would be considered weird around here.

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7 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

As an Italian, my hands are part and parcel of my speech.  I was raised in a family that was expressive, both vocally and physically.  We say "I love you" and we hug.  When I shake your hand, I will often hold your elbow with my other hand.  When we talk, I'll often make physical contact.  It's how I interact.  Never once has anyone suggested such contact was unwelcome.  In fact, more than a few friends have admitted they are more expressive as a result of our interactions.

I am also happily married with two children.  I mean nothing romantic or sexual in my touch.  I will say I do not interact with my students in this fashion.  I am known for "high fives" and "fist bumps" in the hallway and the classroom.  Nothing more than a tap.

That Mr. Metcalfe used the contact as an opportunity to imply Mr. Bradford "likes men" is pathetic.

 

I know, exactly what you're saying, what set this apart is the extreme dressing down and not even a rudimentary comment like keep your hands to yourself, or please don't touch me. Who needed to know how straight he was or needed to tell anyone he was married? It was an outrageous expression for a public meeting and I went away from the video thinking this guy has some serious problems.

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4 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

That would be considered weird around here.

Wouldn't bother me a bit.  

Not everyone is as uptight as you and your brethren.

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5 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I know, exactly what you're saying, what set this apart is the extreme dressing down and not even a rudimentary comment like keep your hands to yourself, or please don't touch me. Who needed to know how straight he was or needed to tell anyone he was married? It was an outrageous expression for a public meeting and I went away from the video thinking this guy has some serious problems.

Exactly.  If he didn't want to be touched, say "Don't touch me" or "Stop touching me".

To asset his heterosexuality as a justification and imply his fellow rep is gay is beneath juvenile.

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

Exactly.  If he didn't want to be touched, say "Don't touch me" or "Stop touching me".

To asset his heterosexuality as a justification and imply his fellow rep is gay is juvenile.

Yes, the Democrat vs Republican point was funny, like there are no gay Republicans. I think we need to make a Denny Hastert award for this kind of behavior. The biggest homophobe in the House turned out to be gay and a pedo.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

  When I shake your hand, I will often hold your elbow with my other hand. 

Well stop it!.

It's called a handshake for a reason - it's not a hand and arm shake.

You can do that shit with family if you and they want - nobody else.

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20 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Well stop it!.

It's called a handshake for a reason - it's not a hand and arm shake.

You can do that shit with family if you and they want - nobody else.

If you really want to fuck with people, hold out your left hand.

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I think he liked being touched, but didn't like being touched on camera.  The party of perverts is like that.

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22 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

If you really want to fuck with people, hold out your left hand.

I've known several people either missing a right hand/arm, or with a prosthetic hand/arm, who extend their left hand.... It takes a moment, and it's undeniably awkward if you don't know before..... But a couple of them have made the conscious effort to ease the situation by either extending their left hand, while exhibiting the right stump/device in advance, or having someone tell me in private in advance. The few times that I've grabbed an arm stump and shook have always been a little disconcerting, but the other person was usually smiling, knowing that they'd thrown you off balance, but no hard feelings, eh?

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24 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Dude has got to be gay. NTTIAWWT

Nothing wrong with being gay. Barking about being hetero and saying the opposition party has gays while his doesn’t? Definitely something wrong with that.

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Some of my coworkers are huggers. Some are women, some are men. Some are men who used to be women and vice versa.

I really never think about it. You know who the huggers are and just kind of expect it. Doesn't bother me although I'm personally a fist bump kinda guy. Germs and chronic atopic eczema don't really mix well.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Well stop it!.

It's called a handshake for a reason - it's not a hand and arm shake.

You can do that shit with family if you and they want - nobody else.

And then there’s the Scandahoovian crowd- my grandmother insisted on handshakes, no hugs, and it was excellent.  I find huggers really embarrassing as a result, but I’ve also found that huggers have the weight of the social contract behind them, so demurring a hug is considered offensive, no matter how many willies I’m experiencing.  Then there’s kissers and interrupters, but bleah! bleah! That’s another step beyond!  I like my social normal space about 3 feet.  But that’s generally considered antisocial....so............

Who respects whom and how?  Should I give up my space?  Should others give up social intimacy?

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

And then there’s the Scandahoovian crowd- my grandmother insisted on handshakes, no hugs, and it was excellent.  I find huggers really embarrassing as a result, but I’ve also found that huggers have the weight of the social contract behind them, so demurring a hug is considered offensive, no matter how many willies I’m experiencing.  Then there’s kissers and interrupters, but bleah! bleah! That’s another step beyond!  I like my social normal space about 3 feet.  But that’s generally considered antisocial....so............

Who respects whom and how?  Should I give up my space?  Should others give up social intimacy?

I like to greet huggers with a big groin grind. Sorts them out in a hurry. It's OK because I wear a hazmat suit. It's a little awkward at parties, but the ones that survive think it's good.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

I like to greet huggers with a big groin grind. Sorts them out in a hurry. It's OK because I wear a hazmat suit. It's a little awkward at parties, but the ones that survive think it's good.

Mmmmmm, Tyvek........

Reusable!

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5 hours ago, Amati said:

And then there’s the Scandahoovian crowd- my grandmother insisted on handshakes, no hugs, and it was excellent.  I find huggers really embarrassing as a result, but I’ve also found that huggers have the weight of the social contract behind them, so demurring a hug is considered offensive, no matter how many willies I’m experiencing.  Then there’s kissers and interrupters, but bleah! bleah! That’s another step beyond!  I like my social normal space about 3 feet.  But that’s generally considered antisocial....so............

Who respects whom and how?  Should I give up my space?  Should others give up social intimacy?

3 feet! Do not move to China.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Well stop it!.

It's called a handshake for a reason - it's not a hand and arm shake.

You can do that shit with family if you and they want - nobody else.

My great Uncle Carmine. Once told me that was so the person couldn’t make any fast moves and stab you (yeah he was connected ) B)

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2 hours ago, Gissie said:

3 feet! Do not move to China.

Or plunge into rush hour on any train-like device in Tokyo....

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9 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

I've known several people either missing a right hand/arm, or with a prosthetic hand/arm, who extend their left hand.... It takes a moment, and it's undeniably awkward if you don't know before..... But a couple of them have made the conscious effort to ease the situation by either extending their left hand, while exhibiting the right stump/device in advance, or having someone tell me in private in advance. The few times that I've grabbed an arm stump and shook have always been a little disconcerting, but the other person was usually smiling, knowing that they'd thrown you off balance, but no hard feelings, eh?

Fencer’s handshake!

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27 minutes ago, Amati said:

Or plunge into rush hour on any train-like device in Tokyo....

As uncomfortable as that is, the hand clasp, and lean-in to chest touch seems to have gone metrosexual from the pro sports world. Maybe it's the other way around. 

I think the guesstimate was 1:10 men are gay or getting there. Perhaps it's much higher. Looks like it might be 50/50 in big entertainment.

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15 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

And what's with all the metrosexual man hugs these daze?

It's the new generation, I guess the gals won't hug the guys much anymore without calling a lawsuit twenty years later, so the guys hug each other instead of beating the crap out of each other in front of the pool hall from which they got 86'd.

I think it's excellent. Just because I hug the goalie doesn't mean I want to bang the goalie.

And I've noticed that the 60-some year old women like to hug again too, which is better than awesome. Who needs to hug the young women when the older gals just melt all over a fella? You gotta take what you can get, right?

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I have a life long friend who, after college moved to Spain. Got married had kids, got divorced, got remarried had more kids, moved to Germany...... All this time he's come back to the USA to visit family and friends at least once a year... Every time he comes back his sense of personal space gets smaller and smaller. To the point a few years ago while we were talking and I could feel his feet next to mine. I knew exactly what he'd had for dinner, and what kind of shampoo he used. I asked him to back off in a good natured way, and he did. He laughed and said that he got a lot of that reaction in the states, but in Europe it was considered rude to stand  an arms length away.... Now in conversation with his wife, I had no problems with her lack of sense of personal space.

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17 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

That shit gets old fast. The clip makes Metcalf look bad but betcha this has been going on for awhile as he suggests.

And what's with all the metrosexual man hugs these daze?

As a french-canadian hippiefreak, with lots of gay friends, who's spent a fair bit of time in Italy  -  I habitually hug close friends  -   male or female, gay or straight  -  heck, many get a kiss on both cheeks. 

Nonetheless  -  I had this one co-worker, couple years back, who was more touchy than I was comfortable with  -  and I agree with you, it gets really old, really fast.  I also agree that Bradford vibes like someone who touches whether or not it'll be okay.  It's a form of "vibe blindness", as another coworker phrased it.

If I ask you to get off me, and your response is a condescending "you don't really mean that" and an attempt at another hug?  You're just being an asshole, and I have no problem calling you on it. 

But you know what?  I managed to get him to respect my personal boundaries & stop touching me all the time, without having a homophobic freakout about it.  The right tone of voice, is all it takes. 

 

(He's straight, if that matters  -  just a metrosexual hippie type, overcompensating for being from Texas.)

 

(and come to think of it  -  In my experience, gay men are much less likely to touch when it's not welcome)

 

 

 

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My wife loves arm touching when she talks to me and it annoys the hell out of me. I have told her this but she continues to do it. I am tired of the tapping on my arm while listening to her.  I agree that people should keep their hands to themselves unless they know the other person is ok with it.

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One of my best friends is French and when I see him he kisses me on both cheeks (the face ones). The first time  being a hetero WASP I thought yuck (he has a beard too)! But , I got over it and have moved on but I have not started the greeting with  my male friends in Canada.  So to each their own get over it. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

One of my best friends is French and when I see him he kisses me on both cheeks (the face ones). The first time  being a hetero WASP I thought yuck (he has a beard too)! But , I got over it and have moved on but I have not started the greeting with  my male friends in Canada.  So to each their own get over it. 

 

 

To clarify: french canadian men don't kiss each other on both cheeks.  We're americanized (or anglo-canadianized), to that extent.  We often hug hello, though. 

French canadian women habitually kiss men and women on both cheeks. 

A lot of (not all) gay men & women kiss both cheeks.  And many, if not most, Italians.

 

Caveat, for all of the above: close friends and family.  Not coworkers or other casual acquaintances.  Only the French french do that.

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15 hours ago, badlatitude said:

thinking this guy has some serious problems

If you lived in PA, you'd already know it.  He's notorious.  

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I like to greet huggers with a big groin grind. Sorts them out in a hurry. It's OK because I wear a hazmat suit. It's a little awkward at parties, but the ones that survive think it's good.

Yeah, use to do the groin grind (with some added hand cupping on the butt cheeks for extra depth) until one time I got my belt buckle locked up with another guys. Took forever to get unhooked. Talk about embarrassing. I advise caution or suspenders.

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55 minutes ago, frenchie said:

To clarify: french canadian men don't kiss each other on both cheeks.  We're americanized (or anglo-canadianized), to that extent.  We often hug hello, though. 

French canadian women habitually kiss men and women on both cheeks. 

A lot of (not all) gay men & women kiss both cheeks.  And many, if not most, Italians.

 

Caveat, for all of the above: close friends and family.  Not coworkers or other casual acquaintances.  Only the French french do that.

He lives in Strasbourg so French French is the phenotype  

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5 hours ago, dacapo said:

My great Uncle Carmine. Once told me that was so the person couldn’t make any fast moves and stab you (yeah he was connected ) B)

Joe Trudeau used that technique on Trump to prevent that weird grab & pull shake thing that the Orange Idiot uses.

Apparently Joe was briefed about it in advance and moved in on Trump like a bitch and got a fairly normal handshake accomplished by grabbing Trumps upper arm with his left hand.

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4 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

As uncomfortable as that is, the hand clasp, and lean-in to chest touch seems to have gone metrosexual from the pro sports world. Maybe it's the other way around. 

I think the guesstimate was 1:10 men are gay or getting there. Perhaps it's much higher. Looks like it might be 50/50 in big entertainment.

From what I've observed it's not the Metrosexuals doing it, it's much lower rent than that - custom chopper builders and the like.

Any sort of tricky handshake makes me suspicious of that person - from secret shit like the Masons to that shoulder bump quasi-hug thing. I mean WTF? Why can't they just shake hands like normal people? Is it some sort of false intimacy or something?

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On 12/7/2017 at 6:31 PM, Bus Driver said:

Wouldn't bother me a bit.  

Not everyone is as uptight as you and your brethren.

Doesn’t surprise me bit as I was was responding to your post stating you enjoy touching men.  Do you do so after they’ve asked you to stop?  Do you do it to women as well?

definitely not accepted behavior around here.

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44 minutes ago, Rockdog said:

Doesn’t surprise me bit as I was was responding to your post stating you enjoy touching men.  Do you do so after they’ve asked you to stop?  Do you do it to women as well?

definitely not accepted behavior around here.

No difference between men and women. 

And, if they say the touch is unwanted/unwelcome, I respect that. Rarely ever happens. 

Feel free to try and insult me with that info. 

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If arm touching is going to be a felony, there are a lot of waitresses that are going to miss out on a lot of hefty tips from men taking their wives out to dinner on Valentine's day......

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3 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

No difference between men and women. 

And, if they say the touch is unwanted/unwelcome, I respect that. Rarely ever happens. 

Feel free to try and insult me with that info. 

So if someone asked you to stop touching them but you continued to do so would you think an outburst from them to out of line?

Do you think no one you touch feels uncomfortable by it because they don’t tell you so?

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3 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

No difference between men and women. 

And, if they say the touch is unwanted/unwelcome, I respect that. Rarely ever happens. 

Feel free to try and insult me with that info. 

Oh wait! I see you touch people even though there is a possibility they will be uncomfortable with.  You just do it as long as they don’t say to stop.  Do you ask their permission before doing so?

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3 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

If arm touching is going to be a felony, there are a lot of waitresses that are going to miss out on a lot of hefty tips from men taking their wives out to dinner on Valentine's day......

Not following that one

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6 hours ago, Rockdog said:

So if someone asked you to stop touching them but you continued to do so would you think an outburst from them to out of line?

Do you think no one you touch feels uncomfortable by it because they don’t tell you so?

If they asked me to stop, I would stop. I already said that. Read much?

It is possible I have touched someone without knowing it made them uncomfortable. My mind reading skills are not highly tuned. Then again, if during a handshake with which they voluntarily participated, I enveloped their right hand in both of mine or I lightly touched their right elbow with my left hand, and that made them uncomfortable, I would hope they would say something. 

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6 hours ago, Rockdog said:

Oh wait! I see you touch people even though there is a possibility they will be uncomfortable with.  You just do it as long as they don’t say to stop.  Do you ask their permission before doing so?

Yep.  The possibility exists.  If I put out my hand to shake yours, and you reciprocate by taking my hand, you own at least half of the contact.

 

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7 hours ago, Rockdog said:

Not following that one

One of the tried and true waitress tip tricks is to determine who the alpha male at a  table of 4-8 is and pay special attention to him, lightly touch his shoulder, elbow, arm,  wrist when attending to him, lean in near to him so he can smell you.

Or if it's a hetero-couple, do the same thing but less obviously, to the man. Make him feel like you're interested in him in a mysterious kind of way.

From what I've been told by people in the restaurant/catering industry, properly carried out these tactics can triple to quadruple a normal tip.

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Interesting thread, seems there is quite a bit more latent sexual hangups and homophobia than I realized. The things I learn here.

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13 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

No difference between men and women. 

And, if they say the touch is unwanted/unwelcome, I respect that. Rarely ever happens. 

Feel free to try and insult me with that info. 

Usually, in this kind of situation, it takes a warning.  Most reasonable people would not be opposed to such touching, but once a person lets you know that they are opposed to it, then it is off limits.

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4 hours ago, jzk said:

Usually, in this kind of situation, it takes a warning.  Most reasonable people would not be opposed to such touching, but once a person lets you know that they are opposed to it, then it is off limits.

Agreed.

For the record, I cannot recall a specific example of someone saying "Don't do that..."

I guess I run in different circles than Rockdog does.

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2 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Agreed.

For the record, I cannot recall a specific example of someone saying "Don't do that..."

I guess I run in different circles than Rockdog does.

Not even any strident declarations of heterosexuality?

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38 minutes ago, Battlecheese said:

Not even any strident declarations of heterosexuality?

I don’t recall any time an acquaintance felt the need to announce his/her heterosexuality as a defense against an imagined come on. 

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17 hours ago, Rockdog said:

Not following that one

That's becoming a very long list.

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He heh heh!....................... Strident declarations of heterosexuality......

 Heh!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heh heh!

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