Tempest

Another interesting boat

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One of the advantages of a yawl over a ketch is, the mizzen is usually stepped outside the cockpit, and nearly always aft of the cockpit sole. Seems that would be an intrusion on the Swan. I like the boat though, I'd try to live with it. It needs it's kick-ass for speed! :)

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53 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

It is a bit busy with a mast in the cockpit...but there are some advatages.   i sailed a sparkman and stevens ketch for few years...that mizzen allowed a beautiful sun awning that protected the helmsman , yet didnt interfere with sail handling and cockpit crew movements. 

Good place for antennae , radar and whatnot

when boomed out downwind the mizzen boom performed Perfectly as a outrigger for dragging fish lures outside the  disturbed water of the  wake

in rolley seas that mizzen could be sheeted in hard  to temper the roll period.

on a close reach the boat hauled ass. 

in regatta  mode , upwind downwind , we sailed bald of mizzen sails for a rating advantage

i liked that boat 

 

IMG_7772.jpg

You liked a Swan 65?

Ya think?

One of the most beautiful boats ever built. Legendary.

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On 1/6/2018 at 3:06 PM, SloopJonB said:

No "might be" about it - that boat is what started the Swan reputation. I imagine it would perform right on par with a Tartan 41 but with way more class.

I'm puzzled about the Yawl comments though - I only see any sign of a mizzen in one pic.

?????

I think 99% came from the factory as sloops. Many had/have soft decks behind the mast. 

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NIce C&C 44. Not really a singlehander, but could double hand easily. Dial in the transport costs to the west coast and add whatever else you want to put into it to cruisify it and suddenly it's not as cheap, but I'm digging that one.

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I'm starting to think that the Passport 40 might be the perfect boat.  It's sounding like it meets all of my requirements.  Passport 41 would be great too but it doesn't look like as many were made.  Only issue with this boats is price.  It appears as though everyone is well aware that they are good boats and the used prices reflect that which means it may be hard to get one for a price that makes fixing/upgrading financially viable.

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On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 5:08 PM, guerdon said:

Tempest,  If you are looking for low overall cost consider Hinckley, they are well made and usually owned by people who know it's best to always maintain .  I have worked on many and  I have never seen them not use the best building approach including parts replacement.  Remember you buy a boat by the pound, and what you sell it for is very unglamorous but is the real part of your cost.  I have seen undervalued boats that were were perfectly fine, but west coast sailors don't seem to click in with the old money folks that Hank Hinkley took care of.  He had a different approach, and never wanted to lose a customer and their offspring.  Good luck to you.

.

A few months ago my Hinckley SW42 went to a non-profit as I got a new boat. A local yacht broker found out and arranged to get her before she could ever make it to market. I suspect he got a bangin deal, probably less than I had spent on the boat in the previous 3-4 years. I'd had her kept in indoor heated storage and constantly maintained and upgraded to a very, very high standard. An excellent sailboat.

I had a painting done to remember her by:

 

IMG_7379mhr copy 2.jpg

IMG_0156 RFS.jpg

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Tempest: Passport 40 and 41 are identical boats except for the additional length added at the stern. Most 41's also had a taller rig.

Is the 41 a better boat than the 40? I'd say yes due to the taller rig, but not by much.

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

... Hinckley SW42 ... I had a painting done to remember her by:

IMG_0156 RFS.jpg

 

And you helped out a starving artist, too. I have a bunch of sketches of pets and boats from the past.  Better than photos IMHO

That is beautiful, thanks for posting CL

FB- Doug

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On 1/24/2018 at 4:30 AM, Tempest said:

Swan was there own company, right?  Guessing this swan is different than the previously mentioned swans.  Looks like a lot of boat for the money!

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Nautor-Swan-47-3112366/San-Diego/CA/United-States#.Wmf9E3mIZiQ

The Nicholsons were aways nice boats 

IMG_8057.jpg

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Big Nicholson's of that era were some of the most beautiful boats ever built.

image.png.c471f0774e90bd78f47cd2b911ac5134.png

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On 2/2/2018 at 8:03 AM, Cruisin Loser said:

A few months ago my Hinckley SW42 went to a non-profit as I got a new boat. A local yacht broker found out and arranged to get her before she could ever make it to market. I suspect he got a bangin deal, probably less than I had spent on the boat in the previous 3-4 years. I'd had her kept in indoor heated storage and constantly maintained and upgraded to a very, very high standard. An excellent sailboat.

I had a painting done to remember her by:

 

IMG_7379mhr copy 2.jpg

IMG_0156 RFS.jpg

That is a very beautiful boat (and great painting).  Any idea what she may have gone for?  I ask because, until this thread, I had never even heard of a Hinckley and that SW42 is a great looking boat and probably right along the lines of what I'm looking for.

On 2/2/2018 at 8:09 AM, Bob Perry said:

Tempest: Passport 40 and 41 are identical boats except for the additional length added at the stern. Most 41's also had a taller rig.

Is the 41 a better boat than the 40? I'd say yes due to the taller rig, but not by much.

Well, from what I've see of your previous designs, I like your style, sir.  Why are so many of your designs canoe stern?  Admittedly I haven't looked it up yet but it's on my list of things to google.  I'm guessing it improves seaworthiness?  I hate to say it but I am definitely partial to a standard, flat stern design... it just seems more practical.  I've been going through the list on bluewaterboats.org ( http://bluewaterboats.org/about/index/) and many of the listed designs are yours.  If you could suggest any others I'd be keen to take a look.

I may be in your neck of the woods sometime in the next year and would love to bend your ear if a guy could buy you lunch or something.

18 hours ago, slug zitski said:

The Nicholsons were aways nice boats 

IMG_8057.jpg

So are Nicholsons and Nautor the same company?  Do they have anything to do with the Swans?  I'm having a hard time finding information on them.

16 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

That photo was taken when she was being relaunched after having her leaking stern gland fixed - true. 

 

This boat is built on the same hull I believe but is immensely sexier

http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/433/nicholson-55-masthead-cutter-1971

 

 

 

lol Lovely boat.... unfortunately I don't have 270k laying around.

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2 hours ago, Tempest said:

So are Nicholsons and Nautor the same company?  Do they have anything to do with the Swans?  I'm having a hard time finding information on them.

No - Camper & Nicholson is an old (like 250 years old) British builder while Nautor - who build Swans - is a much younger (late 1960's) Finnish builder.

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5 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

No, I hadn't seen that one but, IIRC, that is one of the years that was known to have serious blister problems.  I believe 1976 to 1981 had poor layups.
 

I like everything except those countertops in the heads lol. That 1970s-80s faux marble is gross.  Oh, and I hear those off-centre companionways are pure death.

4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

No - Camper & Nicholson is an old (like 250 years old) British builder while Nautor - who build Swans - is a much younger (late 1960's) Finnish builder.

Ahh, ok, thanks SJB

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This is a new listing, I know you were considering this displacement on page one. I haven't been on this one, but Tartan is respected and this is set up to singlehand. https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/d/thomas-35-sailboat/6485542758.html

 

00g0g_bBx32wRKEqy_600x450.jpg

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People will never forget the advice BS imparted on these hallowed pages before he was put to the curb like the dog that shit in the house one too many times.

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4 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

This is a new listing, I know you were considering this displacement on page one. I haven't been on this one, but Tartan is respected and this is set up to singlehand. https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/d/thomas-35-sailboat/6485542758.html

 

00g0g_bBx32wRKEqy_600x450.jpg

The T-35 is a super boat. They sail very well, are easy to handle, and pretty comfortable for the size. I know a couple of folks that have them consider the boats more of a family member than a possession.

FB- Doug

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That's a nice later-model one.  Early one's were designed as a "replacement/follow on" to the Tarten 10 as a OD boat.  Fractional Rig, pilot berths (sleep 8!), tiller.  As you can see in the pics, this one is Masthead rigged, pilot berths replaced with shelves/cabinets, wheel, etc...

Seem's very well maintained as well...

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7 hours ago, kimbottles said:

Yeah, so do I.

Me too.  Early Thomas 35's are like the ultimate S2 9.1...Every thing you need to race offshore (MORC's original premise) and nothing you don't need...

But Tempest was also oohing and ahhing over the SW 42, so...the late model Thomas 35's were a little nicer from a cruising fit out perspective....No where near as nice as CL's SW 42, but nicer from that perspective than an early Thomas 35...IMHO anyway :rolleyes:

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On 2/5/2018 at 2:23 PM, Norse Horse said:

This is a new listing, I know you were considering this displacement on page one. I haven't been on this one, but Tartan is respected and this is set up to singlehand. https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/d/thomas-35-sailboat/6485542758.html

 

00g0g_bBx32wRKEqy_600x450.jpg

I hadn't seen that one and it's definitely interesting.  I don't have Tartan/Thomas on my list as manufacturers to look for so I'll add it now.  The only thing I'm kinda wondering about is whether or not a 35' boat will be big enough for a live aboard.  I suppose it entirely depends on the layout as there are massive boats that looks cramped and awful.  At the end of the day I'm going to have to start setting foot on these boats and taking a look up close.  I might be moving to the coast soon so I'll have lots of time to look!

Any idea what's going on in the stern?  I saw one small layout photo and it looks like it may have dual quarter berths but I can't tell.

8 hours ago, fufkin said:

This might be worth a look. Probably someone around here is familiar with this boat. 

https://www.yatco.com/vessel/info/204769/50ft-15m/1981/santa-cruz-for-sale-west-vancouver-canada

That is definitely interesting.  Looks incredibly spartan.  Kinda strange and possibly not as well laid out as I would have expected for a 50' boat.  I'm guessing it's a planing hull which would explain a lot.

*ETA* Wow, yep!  Displacement is only 16,000lbs; that's nuts!  Wonder if it could be made more homely....

http://www.fastisfun.com/blboats/sc50brochure/sc50.htm

3 hours ago, Crash said:

Me too.  Early Thomas 35's are like the ultimate S2 9.1...Every thing you need to race offshore (MORC's original premise) and nothing you don't need...

But Tempest was also oohing and ahhing over the SW 42, so...the late model Thomas 35's were a little nicer from a cruising fit out perspective....No where near as nice as CL's SW 42, but nicer from that perspective than an early Thomas 35...IMHO anyway :rolleyes:

Yeah, I like the sounds of "ultimate S2" as the idea of speed appeals to me.  It would depend on how comfortable it is.

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4 hours ago, Tempest said:

I hadn't seen that one and it's definitely interesting.  I don't have Tartan/Thomas on my list as manufacturers to look for so I'll add it now.  The only thing I'm kinda wondering about is whether or not a 35' boat will be big enough for a live aboard.  I suppose it entirely depends on the layout as there are massive boats that looks cramped and awful.  At the end of the day I'm going to have to start setting foot on these boats and taking a look up close.  I might be moving to the coast soon so I'll have lots of time to look!

Any idea what's going on in the stern?  I saw one small layout photo and it looks like it may have dual quarter berths but I can't tell.

That is definitely interesting.  Looks incredibly spartan.  Kinda strange and possibly not as well laid out as I would have expected for a 50' boat.  I'm guessing it's a planing hull which would explain a lot.

*ETA* Wow, yep!  Displacement is only 16,000lbs; that's nuts!  Wonder if it could be made more homely....

http://www.fastisfun.com/blboats/sc50brochure/sc50.htm

Yeah, I like the sounds of "ultimate S2" as the idea of speed appeals to me.  It would depend on how comfortable it is.

Here’s an early layout one in Chicago...you can see the dual quarterberths here as I’d assume they are there on the later model ones too. You can see the pilot berths in the main cabin Vice the shelves/cabinets as well.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/Tartan-Thomas-35-3146101/Chicago/IL/United-States#.WnsMGnCIbYU

They rate about the same as a J-35/J/109, so they are pretty quick boats...but like most raceboats, need weight on the rail to “sail to that rating”

 

I knew a guy who lived on a J-29, so compared to that, the Thomas would seem palatial. That said it depends on what you “need” from a live aboard standpoint. The gallery is small, the tankage is modest, and there’s not a ton of “out of sight” storage. 

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5 hours ago, Crash said:

I knew a guy who lived camped out on a J-29

FIFY.

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17 hours ago, Crash said:

Here’s an early layout one in Chicago...you can see the dual quarterberths here as I’d assume they are there on the later model ones too. You can see the pilot berths in the main cabin Vice the shelves/cabinets as well.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/Tartan-Thomas-35-3146101/Chicago/IL/United-States#.WnsMGnCIbYU

They rate about the same as a J-35/J/109, so they are pretty quick boats...but like most raceboats, need weight on the rail to “sail to that rating”

 

I knew a guy who lived on a J-29, so compared to that, the Thomas would seem palatial. That said it depends on what you “need” from a live aboard standpoint. The gallery is small, the tankage is modest, and there’s not a ton of “out of sight” storage. 

Ugh yeah, I'd rather buy once and cry once as opposed to make do with a smaller boat.  If there isn't enough stowage that means I'm going to be tripping over shit which means I'm going to hate my life.  It would be nice to maybe have room for luxuries like a dive compressor, washer/dryer and a water maker lol.  Hell, maybe even a little workbench.  I'm probably better off gunning for a 40ish foot boat.

That is a terrific looking boat thought!  I do like the layout a lot and it overall looks very practical.  The cockpit traveller might suck a lot of dicks to have to step over all the time but otherwise she's a good lookin vessel!

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9 hours ago, Tempest said:

Ugh yeah, I'd rather buy once and cry once as opposed to make do with a smaller boat.  If there isn't enough stowage that means I'm going to be tripping over shit which means I'm going to hate my life.  It would be nice to maybe have room for luxuries like a dive compressor, washer/dryer and a water maker lol.  Hell, maybe even a little workbench.  I'm probably better off gunning for a 40ish foot boat.

That is a terrific looking boat thought!  I do like the layout a lot and it overall looks very practical.  The cockpit traveller might suck a lot of dicks to have to step over all the time but otherwise she's a good lookin vessel!

40 is about the mnimium.   Small boats get overloaded with stuff fast

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11 hours ago, Tempest said:

Ugh yeah, I'd rather buy once and cry once as opposed to make do with a smaller boat.  If there isn't enough stowage that means I'm going to be tripping over shit which means I'm going to hate my life.  It would be nice to maybe have room for luxuries like a dive compressor, washer/dryer and a water maker lol.  Hell, maybe even a little workbench.  I'm probably better off gunning for a 40ish foot boat.

Sounds more like you want a condo

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11 hours ago, Tempest said:

Ugh yeah, I'd rather buy once and cry once as opposed to make do with a smaller boat.  If there isn't enough stowage that means I'm going to be tripping over shit which means I'm going to hate my life.  It would be nice to maybe have room for luxuries like a dive compressor, washer/dryer and a water maker lol.  Hell, maybe even a little workbench.  I'm probably better off gunning for a 40ish foot boat.

This is very smart.   I did the same thing.  I bought the biggest boat I could afford and handle.   I just know how life goes and you often you end up stuck with something that is less than you wanted/needed.   So, I just bought the boat as if its my last boat I will ever buy.  If my fortunes change and I can get an even better boat, great, if not, I'm happy with what I have.

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With a small boat you are forced to store all the junk in the ends of the boat.....not the best place for stuff.

on small boats, ...tanks, battery banks, engine and machinery installation are compromised 

at a certain size, boat type , arrangement become more locical 

40 or 45 ft is about it for modern hull forms ..

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Dive compressor and gear? Consider that most all of the great dive sites have a nearby dive enterprise. So you can skip that unless diving is really your number one priority.

Laundry machinery? Just reduce your lifestyle. Or install a laundry-crazed wife like I did.

Watermaker. Pretty handy. But then, again, my perfect wife jumps up at all hours and tends the rain catching gear. So the W/M is almost never used. W/M weight can be offset against full tankage.

Workbench? Do not encourage work. However a nice vise on a small sheet of heavy plywood can be very handy. Stick to the 3rd world where there is a reasonable workshop on every block. I love a nice workshop. I have one: on land.

Six months of food stores? Nope. Simply navigate efficiently to the next populated place. They ALWAYS have food. I love good food too: it is available almost everywhere with a bit of ambition.

Huge batteries? Nope. Try to remember that batteries do not make power. They store power. Use the weight budget on things that make power.

Length of boat? Longer and narrower the better. It is not the length that makes the hard work, it is the displacement.

Huge dinghy and huge motor? Unnecessary. Just big enough for the crew is all you need. Planing is overrated and annoying anyways. Just squeeze in with the groceries. Or make two trips. It's not a big deal. Rowing is an option too...what else is there to do all day?

A very small inventory of very good sails is better that a huge pile of iffy sails. I have found them easy to replace in remote places.

Fuel. The weight savings above will allow sailing twice as often. Motoring half as often. And, again, fuel is available everywhere: it does not need to be dragged along.

Safety gear: Skip it all. Heh. Just kidding. Don't skimp on it at all. Double down on first aid, EPIRB, hull breach gear, flotation, etc.

Just some tips from experience...my opinion...whatever you do just get out there ASAP....figure it out later.

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A washing machine is kick ass.  The new ones are very small.

when you hit port...plug in , fill up ...hit the pub...empty, fill up again..hit the pub........

if you as starting from scratch consider a  micro size washer .  Mine is a old Miele...a little big , new ones are small

the other big space users are things like sun awnings...the size of a full sail bag....a complete  set of fenders just about fills the whole forpeake on a small boat .

somehow a decent size garbage can must fit onboard

very hard to go cruising without a bike 

when the boat is small all this gear ends up in a big pile or tied all over the deck like a gypsy caravan 

and the dingy should be the biggest possible for the boat...that dingy turns into your pickup truck...a small motor is perfect...one with an external fuel tank 

 

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23 hours ago, Crash said:

Other end of the spectrum, looks like you only need to add in your dive compressor, already has washer/dryer...

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/66156

 

That's a beautiful looking boat but I bet it's a DOG with the sails up.  Different type of sailing for sure.  Who knows.... maybe something like that will end up being the shoe that fits but I'm thinking I'll be gunning for something slightly more sporty.

20 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

Sounds more like you want a condo

I want something I can live on comfortably.

20 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

This is very smart.   I did the same thing.  I bought the biggest boat I could afford and handle.   I just know how life goes and you often you end up stuck with something that is less than you wanted/needed.   So, I just bought the boat as if its my last boat I will ever buy.  If my fortunes change and I can get an even better boat, great, if not, I'm happy with what I have.

Sounds like we're on the same page.

7 hours ago, slug zitski said:

With a small boat you are forced to store all the junk in the ends of the boat.....not the best place for stuff.

on small boats, ...tanks, battery banks, engine and machinery installation are compromised 

at a certain size, boat type , arrangement become more locical 

40 or 45 ft is about it for modern hull forms ..

I agree and it's pretty much what I've been thinking.  It's interesting that you think 40' is the minimum but that also sounds about right.  I wouldn't really have a problem with a 50' but that's where you start running into issues with expensive moorage, and trouble getting into marinas.  Not to mention the added expense of square footage for paint, sails and rigging.

1 hour ago, daddle said:

Dive compressor and gear? Consider that most all of the great dive sites have a nearby dive enterprise. So you can skip that unless diving is really your number one priority.

Laundry machinery? Just reduce your lifestyle. Or install a laundry-crazed wife like I did.

Watermaker. Pretty handy. But then, again, my perfect wife jumps up at all hours and tends the rain catching gear. So the W/M is almost never used. W/M weight can be offset against full tankage.

Workbench? Do not encourage work. However a nice vise on a small sheet of heavy plywood can be very handy. Stick to the 3rd world where there is a reasonable workshop on every block. I love a nice workshop. I have one: on land.

Six months of food stores? Nope. Simply navigate efficiently to the next populated place. They ALWAYS have food. I love good food too: it is available almost everywhere with a bit of ambition.

Huge batteries? Nope. Try to remember that batteries do not make power. They store power. Use the weight budget on things that make power.

Length of boat? Longer and narrower the better. It is not the length that makes the hard work, it is the displacement.

Huge dinghy and huge motor? Unnecessary. Just big enough for the crew is all you need. Planing is overrated and annoying anyways. Just squeeze in with the groceries. Or make two trips. It's not a big deal. Rowing is an option too...what else is there to do all day?

A very small inventory of very good sails is better that a huge pile of iffy sails. I have found them easy to replace in remote places.

Fuel. The weight savings above will allow sailing twice as often. Motoring half as often. And, again, fuel is available everywhere: it does not need to be dragged along.

Safety gear: Skip it all. Heh. Just kidding. Don't skimp on it at all. Double down on first aid, EPIRB, hull breach gear, flotation, etc.

Just some tips from experience...my opinion...whatever you do just get out there ASAP....figure it out later.

Yeah, this all sounds right.  I was just trying to think ahead.  I'm not a scuba diver anyway haha.  Freediving is where it's at but who knows, a guy might want to have friends over to dive but you're probably right about compressors being plentiful.

You're right about getting out there.  I'm saving money as fast as I can and it would be nice to be out there on a boat before I hit 40.  I want a big chunk of cash but it may actually be wise to just get a boat loan for $70k-$100k.  I'll sail the shit outa my little guy in the meantime :D

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3 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

A washing machine is kick ass.  The new ones are very small.

when you hit port...plug in , fill up ...hit the pub...empty, fill up again..hit the pub........

if you as starting from scratch consider a  micro size washer .  Mine is a old Miele...a little big , new ones are small

the other big space users are things like sun awnings...the size of a full sail bag....a complete  set of fenders just about fills the whole forpeake on a small boat .

somehow a decent size garbage can must fit onboard

very hard to go cruising without a bike 

when the boat is small all this gear ends up in a big pile or tied all over the deck like a gypsy caravan 

and the dingy should be the biggest possible for the boat...that dingy turns into your pickup truck...a small motor is perfect...one with an external fuel tank 

 

I've been thinking about all that.  My buddy has a stable full of those little folding bikes and I'll probably be snatching a few of those things.  Wish I had room for a couple on my 23'.  Shit, wish I had room for a little tender on my 23'.  That boat is just too small lol.

I really hate washing so a washing machine would be great.... but, if there's nothing to do while cruising around I guess I could make do washing stuff by hand, even if it was just for entertainment.

Having an uncluttered deck is probably preferable, even if just for a safety standpoint.

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Ive never had much love for those folding bikes...i go cheap and cheerful town bike...works like a truck, you can really load them down with groceries,  twenty liter oil barrel , diesel jug fits on the frame ..

when things change and I can no longer carry a bike I give it away..then pick up a new ..old town bike the next time I need one.

those folders are clumsy ,dont like broken pot holed roads , are  expensive and people steal them faster than you can buy a new one.

when youre boat biking,  you are parking and locking up is many funky places...many times overnight..or for a week 

young boys dont steal PINK ladies town bikes

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2 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

Ive never had much love for those folding bikes...i go cheap and cheerful town bike...works like a truck, you can really load them down with groceries,  twenty liter oil barrel , diesel jug fits on the frame ..

Bikes are great. Folding ones are indeed bad. Indeed, go cheap and ugly, it is going to rust quickly. Yes, they are painful to stow. But wait! Here's a secret that almost no cruisers know. And I give it to you all free. [sarcasm] The wheels, pedals, baskets of a bicycle can be removed. making it much easier to stow in a tough canvas bag. Takes only minutes to reassemble. Time saved on the first use. Related unknown fact: dinghies and fenders can also be deflated. Surprising, yes? A good pump quickly restores them to the useful condition. Worthwhile exercise after sitting on one's ass during the crossing.[/sarcasm]

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On a small boat you will always need to deflate for transit .

even deflated that a big bundle 

not sure how the modern ..inflatabel bottom..fast rollers work

rigid bottoms work great...floorboards also work well 

many small boats deflate the rib..put it into a custom sock , then clamp it to the fordeck 

 

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And in your storage plan remember jerry jugs...more  is better.

fuel and water 

i am many times taking on fuel by jerry jug and dingy 

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How much washing capacity do you need when you are wearing flipflops, a T and trunks somewhere warm...

Boating up here in the PNW, even in summer, you will appreciate a pilothouse, dodger and hydronic heat but a cruise in the pacific or mexico and it becomes what has been best described above.

I know you are capable with the boat/mech/elect maintenance, but have you considered how you will overcome seasickness?Some are bless but it is a big barrier for many, including me, debilitating for some. I am fine on deck or driving but below is a challenge and I haven,t been offshore long enough to try to overcome my limits.

Some nice, break down, nestling, hard dinghies out there that can sail, to consider if you are 45-50ft

Good luck with your hunt

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On 2/9/2018 at 8:41 AM, Norse Horse said:

How much washing capacity do you need when you are wearing flipflops, a T and trunks somewhere warm...

Boating up here in the PNW, even in summer, you will appreciate a pilothouse, dodger and hydronic heat but a cruise in the pacific or mexico and it becomes what has been best described above.

I know you are capable with the boat/mech/elect maintenance, but have you considered how you will overcome seasickness?Some are bless but it is a big barrier for many, including me, debilitating for some. I am fine on deck or driving but below is a challenge and I haven,t been offshore long enough to try to overcome my limits.

Some nice, break down, nestling, hard dinghies out there that can sail, to consider if you are 45-50ft

Good luck with your hunt

This is a good point.  I guess a machine would be best for when cruising in the PNW or norther Atlantic (England et al).

Don't think I want a pilot house.  That's a lot of windage and possibly a poor use of space for cruising warmer clims (which will be my primary focus).  Thinking I can get away with a hard/soft dodger.

Ha!  Sea sickness will be an issue.  Just gonna have to struggle through it.

Thanks!  I'm in your hood this week.  Gonna give you a call later today.  I have to pick up a block from a buddies boat down at the Gov't docs so if you're around I can introduce you to a neighbour.

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The pilot house type alows navigation to take place on deck...if you are running seven days a week this makes a big difference.

thats 40 to 50 knots, bare poles.

calm...coffee, precise navigation ...little fatigue.

protection from wind, sun , water allows you to last  like the duracell bunny...on and on 

IMG_8143.png

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16 minutes ago, Tempest said:

This is a good point.  I guess a machine would be best for when cruising in the PNW or norther Atlantic (England et al).

Don't think I want a pilot house.  That's a lot of windage and possibly a poor use of space for cruising warmer clims (which will be my primary focus).  Thinking I can get away with a hard/soft dodger.

Ha!  Sea sickness will be an issue.  Just gonna have to struggle through it.

Thanks!  I'm in your hood this week.  Gonna give you a call later today.  I have to pick up a block from a buddies boat down at the Gov't docs so if you're around I can introduce you to a neighbour.

Look forward to seeing you, can meet up today no problem

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This Swan is a new listing I saw. Price seems low, must need sails or teak deck replaced something. SWAN 38 - boats - by dealer

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2390

Big price cut on this one, Valiant 40 - boats - by owner - marine sale

Must be the year of blisters...

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3 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

This Swan is a new listing I saw. Price seems low, must need sails or teak deck replaced something. SWAN 38 - boats - by dealer

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2390

Big price cut on this one, Valiant 40 - boats - by owner - marine sale

Must be the year of blisters...

Supposedly the Valiant blister years are 1976-1981.  The boat in the listing is a 1977. 

The main and jib are from 1977.  Yikes.

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I'm familiar with that Swan - it's original but it spent its winters under the original factory cover on the hard in Thunderbird - until a few years ago anyway.

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On 2/14/2018 at 11:05 AM, slug zitski said:

The pilot house type alows navigation to take place on deck...if you are running seven days a week this makes a big difference.

thats 40 to 50 knots, bare poles.

calm...coffee, precise navigation ...little fatigue.

protection from wind, sun , water allows you to last  like the duracell bunny...on and on 

IMG_8143.png

Ugh, ok, again, there you go with the good advice.  Hadn't really thought about that.  Was just thinking the water and rain would be easier to deal with in the tropics or in the PNW with a good dodger.  The fatigue point is a good one.

On 2/14/2018 at 11:11 AM, Norse Horse said:

Look forward to seeing you, can meet up today no problem

Ugh, sorry amigo.  Thought I'd have more time in town but just ended up passing through quickly on my way to a ferry.  That said, pretty soon you might be seeing more of me than you want to.  It's looking a lot like I'm coast bound!  In any case I'm going to try to get new rags on the vessel and make it down there for the Squamish Open.  When is that?  June?  July?

On 2/17/2018 at 9:16 AM, Norse Horse said:

This Swan is a new listing I saw. Price seems low, must need sails or teak deck replaced something. SWAN 38 - boats - by dealer

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2390

Big price cut on this one, Valiant 40 - boats - by owner - marine sale

Must be the year of blisters...

That swan is just going to be too small.  A 38' will probably only cut it with a wide stern.  That said, I'm armchair shopping so who knows.  I'm going to start putting my head into boats as soon as I get down there.

Yep, that is definitely a blister year boat.

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Well this is interesting and shockingly cheap!  Could be hurricane damaged I guess but it's definitely a cruising boat!  Nice layout.  I remember you guys saying C&C's were pretty good when I was shopping for my little boat.  Any idea how these things are for bluewater ruggedness?  I really like the layout.5a95ef315c949_CC42.thumb.PNG.62bbd73e1706607ddbb29b8568d2abf3.PNG

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Well this is interesting and shockingly cheap!  Could be hurricane damaged I guess but it's definitely a cruising boat!  Nice layout.  I remember you guys saying C&C's were pretty good when I was shopping for my little boat.  Any idea how these things are for bluewater ruggedness?  I really like the layout.5a95ef315c949_CC42.thumb.PNG.62bbd73e1706607ddbb29b8568d2abf3.PNG

Linky?

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21 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Linky?

It's facebook but have at'r
https://www.facebook.com/groups/945743318865601/permalink/1385176628255599/?sale_post_id=1385176628255599&comment_id=1385187538254508&reply_comment_id=1385237818249480&notif_id=1519777936200000&notif_t=group_comment
 

Apparently the woman says there's only a Few soft spots....  awesome! lol  Balsa core kinda takes er off the list.

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7 minutes ago, Tempest said:

It would depend entirely on real condition, but it sounds like they are liveaboards with a growing family. $45K is a dream. Sails, rigging, and engine would be the big dollar items. 

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38 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

It would depend entirely on real condition, but it sounds like they are liveaboards with a growing family. $45K is a dream. Sails, rigging, and engine would be the big dollar items. 

$45k?  It's listed at $25k.  Could invest a lot of cash and have a good boat for $60k.... but alas, the balsa concerns me.

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15 minutes ago, Tempest said:

$45k?  It's listed at $25k.  Could invest a lot of cash and have a good boat for $60k.... but alas, the balsa concerns me.

The comments reference a surveyor's valuation of $45K. Limited balsa rot wouldn't be a big deal, but price out rigging and sails for that boat...and I'm going out on a limb and guessing they are original.

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On 2/25/2018 at 6:37 PM, Tempest said:

Ugh, ok, again, there you go with the good advice.  Hadn't really thought about that.  Was just thinking the water and rain would be easier to deal with in the tropics or in the PNW with a good dodger.  The fatigue point is a good one.

Ugh, sorry amigo.  Thought I'd have more time in town but just ended up passing through quickly on my way to a ferry.  That said, pretty soon you might be seeing more of me than you want to.  It's looking a lot like I'm coast bound!  In any case I'm going to try to get new rags on the vessel and make it down there for the Squamish Open.  When is that?  June?  July?

That swan is just going to be too small.  A 38' will probably only cut it with a wide stern.  That said, I'm armchair shopping so who knows.  I'm going to start putting my head into boats as soon as I get down there.

Yep, that is definitely a blister year boat.

Squamish Open Annual Regatta is July 27,28 and 29, to fit in with the VARC shedule of races. https://www.seatoskysailing.com/racing-events/

http://www.squamishyachtclub.com/

You missed the bad weather,

45 knot outflows. The Mamquam Blind Channel was frozen for a week here, with only the salmon fishers venturing out. I heard it will be a good year for salmon.

Good luck with the boat hunting.

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The comments reference a surveyor's valuation of $45K. Limited balsa rot wouldn't be a big deal, but price out rigging and sails for that boat...and I'm going out on a limb and guessing they are original.

Ahh, I didn't see that.  The limited reading I did spoke of balsa running down to within 18" of the keel so apparently they need to be out and dry to be properly surveyed.  The guy claimed to be a surveyor and said he hadn't see an original 42 landfall that didn't require recoring.

That bad?  Just lots of stays or what?  I wouldn't expect it to be any worse to refit than any other boat that size but I'll poke around when I have time.  Apparently it's rod rigged.  Not sure if that boat was originally rod rigged but the owner says it's in good shape.  From what I hear the rod rigging holds up much better than cables.

2 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Squamish Open Annual Regatta is July 27,28 and 29, to fit in with the VARC shedule of races. https://www.seatoskysailing.com/racing-events/

http://www.squamishyachtclub.com/

You missed the bad weather,

45 knot outflows. The Mamquam Blind Channel was frozen for a week here, with only the salmon fishers venturing out. I heard it will be a good year for salmon.

Good luck with the boat hunting.

Yeah, I was on Keats for the snow and the cold snap!  Think that was my first time experiencing sub zero on the coast. 

I'll be down that way again in a couple months so I'll make a bigger effort to say hello if you're around.  Weather should be a little nicer anyway.

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20 hours ago, Tempest said:
23 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The comments reference a surveyor's valuation of $45K. Limited balsa rot wouldn't be a big deal, but price out rigging and sails for that boat...and I'm going out on a limb and guessing they are original.

Ahh, I didn't see that.  The limited reading I did spoke of balsa running down to within 18" of the keel so apparently they need to be out and dry to be properly surveyed.  The guy claimed to be a surveyor and said he hadn't see an original 42 landfall that didn't require recoring.

That bad?  Just lots of stays or what?  I wouldn't expect it to be any worse to refit than any other boat that size but I'll poke around when I have time.  Apparently it's rod rigged.  Not sure if that boat was originally rod rigged but the owner says it's in good shape.  From what I hear the rod rigging holds up much better than cables.

C&C made a good boat, it really depends on the owners. "Recoring" covers a lot of sins, is it a couple of square inches under some stanchions, or is is half the deck?

Most of the larger C&C's were rod. Rod rigging is durable and strong but expensive to replace. I have original rod on our 1984 C&C 35, it has lived in the Salish Sea from launch, and it's in pretty good shape. A boat that hasn't lived in our temperate rain forest - like the Florida boat - is much more subject to UV degradation, no freshwater flushing (AKA rain), and a series of seemingly careless or ignorant owners.

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On 2/28/2018 at 7:00 AM, Tempest said:

Ahh, I didn't see that.  The limited reading I did spoke of balsa running down to within 18" of the keel so apparently they need to be out and dry to be properly surveyed.  The guy claimed to be a surveyor and said he hadn't see an original 42 landfall that didn't require recoring.

That bad?  Just lots of stays or what?  I wouldn't expect it to be any worse to refit than any other boat that size but I'll poke around when I have time.  Apparently it's rod rigged.  Not sure if that boat was originally rod rigged but the owner says it's in good shape.  From what I hear the rod rigging holds up much better than cables.

Yeah, I was on Keats for the snow and the cold snap!  Think that was my first time experiencing sub zero on the coast. 

I'll be down that way again in a couple months so I'll make a bigger effort to say hello if you're around.  Weather should be a little nicer anyway.

No such thing as an owner saying the rod is in good shape...only a rigging survey can satisfy the insurance company 

its not uncommon to strip the rigging off  , examine, and find many faults.

stemballs are the first to fracture . Deformed cold heads are common . 

5 to seven years is the life of rod rigging 

if the rigging was poorly formed or assembled it can fail faster 

chainplates, mast step ......are considered standing rigging 

P1090895.jpg

IMG_8194.PNG

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On 3/1/2018 at 1:26 AM, slug zitski said:

No such thing as an owner saying the rod is in good shape...only a rigging survey can satisfy the insurance company 

its not uncommon to strip the rigging off  , examine, and find many faults.

stemballs are the first to fracture . Deformed cold heads are common . 

5 to seven years is the life of rod rigging 

if the rigging was poorly formed or assembled it can fail faster 

chainplates, mast step ......are considered standing rigging 

P1090895.jpg

IMG_8194.PNG

Well that's super interesting!  I was under the impression that rod rigging was solid!?

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On 3/1/2018 at 4:26 AM, slug zitski said:

No such thing as an owner saying the rod is in good shape...only a rigging survey can satisfy the insurance company 

its not uncommon to strip the rigging off  , examine, and find many faults.

stemballs are the first to fracture . Deformed cold heads are common . 

5 to seven years is the life of rod rigging 

Where do you get this stuff??  Rod rigging is all about load cycling, not age. I had the rod on my boat tested and it was in excellent condition at 25 yrs. Not surprising given the light use the boat had seen.

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13 minutes ago, monsoon said:

Where do you get this stuff?? 

The same place Sluggo gets a lot of his stuff - his ass.

If he would stick to what he knows he could be a useful source but he won't.

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On 3/5/2018 at 6:34 PM, monsoon said:

Where do you get this stuff??  Rod rigging is all about load cycling, not age. I had the rod on my boat tested and it was in excellent condition at 25 yrs. Not surprising given the light use the boat had seen.

How was it tested?  X-Ray or ultrasound or something?  I'm guessing it was some form on nondestructive testing and not just visual inspection under load or something.

 

 

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On 3/5/2018 at 9:20 PM, Ishmael said:

 

I'll take a photo of my pile of money.  When that pile triples in size there will be more action than you can handle.

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9 hours ago, Tempest said:

How was it tested?  X-Ray or ultrasound or something?  I'm guessing it was some form on nondestructive testing and not just visual inspection under load or something.

 

 

Penetrating dye. Navtec has a lot of good information. Note that nowhere do they state a 5 yr life for rod and if anyone has a vested interest in you replacing your rod rigging it's Navtec.

http://www.navtecriggingsolutions.com/care---maintenance.html

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Not sure if Navtec really care about that since they have been bought up. Their stuff got scattered among a couple of companies but these guys seem to be doing a good job of making Nitronic rod available and they are also doing some nice upgrades on the other goodies that go with it. I'm using them to spec a rig I am presently designing and would suggest anyone needing or considering rod to get in touch, talk with Ulf.

http://www.bsidk.com/rigging/rod-rigging

Another company that bought some of the rights is Hayn, but they are more in the commercial architecture end of things and don't focus on marine gear as much.

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Hunh.... so Albin Nimbus 42!  Read another thread on here where they are lovingly refered to as "Swanabies" but there was no mention of bluewater capability.  Shocked at how cheap they can be picked up.  Are these another Hunt/Ben/Jen poorly built production boat or something worth investigating?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Albin-42-Nimbus-3173781/Halifax/Canada?refSource=standard listing#.WqhuIXllCao

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27 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Hunh.... so Albin Nimbus 42!  Read another thread on here where they are lovingly refered to as "Swanabies" but there was no mention of bluewater capability.  Shocked at how cheap they can be picked up.  Are these another Hunt/Ben/Jen poorly built production boat or something worth investigating?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Albin-42-Nimbus-3173781/Halifax/Canada?refSource=standard listing#.WqhuIXllCao

The right boat at the right time at the right price...already marked as Sale Pending. Great bones, probably needs new deck, new rigging, new sails, new cushions and upholstery, doing the final install of the engine (whatever that may entail), bringing the interior back...may have been a great deal. For that price, there is something seriously wrong with it.

6598657_20180201070707028_1_XLARGE.jpg&w

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5 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

The right boat at the right time at the right price...already marked as Sale Pending. Great bones, probably needs new deck, new rigging, new sails, new cushions and upholstery, doing the final install of the engine (whatever that may entail), bringing the interior back...may have been a great deal. For that price, there is something seriously wrong with it.

Yeah, that one is definitely a stinker.  This is the one that caught my attention.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/71089

I like the lines, I like that it has a skeg rudder, the layout looks good.  The companionway looks like a fucking nightmare though.  decks look fairly clear except for that dorade box right in the centre.... but that photo looks like it's from another boat as there's no teak in that photo.... wtf?

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28 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

The right boat at the right time at the right price...already marked as Sale Pending. Great bones, probably needs new deck, new rigging, new sails, new cushions and upholstery, doing the final install of the engine (whatever that may entail), bringing the interior back...may have been a great deal. For that price, there is something seriously wrong with it.

6598657_20180201070707028_1_XLARGE.jpg&w

Great looking boats - better looking than many of the Swans of that era.

That one needs a new deck - monster job even to re-do in glass.

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12 hours ago, Tempest said:

Hunh.... so Albin Nimbus 42!  Read another thread on here where they are lovingly refered to as "Swanabies" but there was no mention of bluewater capability.  Shocked at how cheap they can be picked up.  Are these another Hunt/Ben/Jen poorly built production boat or something worth investigating?

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/Albin-42-Nimbus-3173781/Halifax/Canada?refSource=standard listing#.WqhuIXllCao

They're cheap b/c they were cheaply built. All the Albins are good designs, but only the smaller ones were built in Sweden.  The 42 is a Taiwan boat and not from  one of the better yards.

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