Tempest

Another interesting boat

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On 4/10/2018 at 9:46 PM, Tempest said:

Nothing wrong with a Catalina 42 - just where it is and where it's at in this case.  On the hard in the Sea of Cortez.

A friend went down there a few years ago to look at a list of boats for sale he had composed.  Most were on the hard.

He came back empty handed saying the sun down there did a number on every single boat he looked at.  All canvas, sails and running rigging would need replacing - and just general exterior sun damage.

In his opinion, none of them were worth it - even at their very appealing prices.

 

 

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Holy Shnidt!  Any of you FLA guys familiar with the boat?
 

Quote

434-D Pilot house Bruce Roberts Performance cruiser turn key

Fort Walton Beach, FL
$75,000

Bruce Roberts 434 D Cutter rig steel hull blue water performance cruiser. This vessel was expertly built in Lindhurst N.Y. in 1998 U.S. Coast Guard Documented until April 30Th. 2019 in the recreational category with no liens. Currently located in Niceville Florida in the western panhandle of the state, on the inner coastal waterway.

This is strictly a private sale. Please, no third party sellers contact me regarding this vessel.

S/V “Hawk” has many-many attributes and high-priced equipment installed. More equipment than I have ever seen on a sailboat actually. The only thing missing to make it truly independent is an arch and more solar panels.

The Bruce Roberts designs are well known for their circumnavigating abilities, as they were designed to face the harshest seas. Be it in Australian waters, Cape Horn, or Antartica. “Hawk” will get you there and back. This fine example is somewhat famous as it was owned and sailed through the Bahamas and south Florida for years by an ecologist/environmentalist for several years. As a result he added many expensive pieces of equipment (including a ham radio station) as he upgrader her capabilities. He was an avid diver. There is a massive retractable 6-step 7-foot hinged dive ladder installed on the sugar scoop stern. There is also a hot and cold water fresh water shower on the stern for rinsing after diving.

Length 43.3’, Breadth 13.5’ depth 6.5’
Net tonnage; 21 NRT gross tonnage 23 GTR
Two 100 gallon fuel tanks as well as two 100 gallon fresh water tanks.

S/V “Hawk” features; Large stateroom with bunkbeds, large door access to anchor locker, forward head with flexible sink shower head for sit-down shower and Johnson sump-pump system, plus manual toilet.

A huge galley with laminated wood countertop. Large deep DC refrigerator and freezer, gimbaled Shipmate LP gas three-burner stainless steel stove with oven, double sink with water filter system and supplemental powered salt water pump for major crossings. Tiled countertop and microwave oven.

It has a Dickenson Newport diesel heater for the cold nights on the open sea. The gravity fed fuel tank is located in the forward head and can be replenished by the built in electric pump slaved off the main fuel tanks.

The pilothouse saloon has a lower helm with a large teak Edison wheel and a full compliment of navigation instruments and a beautiful C-Tronix autopilot steering system as well as duel hydraulic steering for pilot house and external helm. 7’ headroom in pilothouse can seat 8 as it is configured now. it has an L shaped settee and removable dining table on a horizontal swivel. A 6’6” settee on the starboard side.

A Mako three-phase Electric Scuba-tank Compressor built in for unlimited dive tank recharging!

Storage lockers either side of engine compartment, multiple cosets with shelves and hanging clothes closet.
Easy access to the low hour Westerbeke 55C main engine and almost new 5000KW Onan/Cummins diesel generator through hinged floor hatch. Easy access the pilot house in the even a re-power is ever needed and easy maintenance access for both as well as all pumps, through hulls, and systems. Motor has unknown hours but was represented as having approximately 1000 hours (or less) on it. It runs like a new motor starting instantly, even without using the pre-heater. Burns no oil and obviously has incredible compression. It runs like a new motor. It is fuel efficient and powerful. Hawk can achieve 10K in trawler mode due to its incredible efficient knife blade hull/keel/skeg rudder design. This boat rides and feels like a trawler under motor power, and sails like a dream. She turns on a dime and backs up predictably compared to full-keel designs. This 43’ vessel is easier to handle than any smaller boat I have ever captained.

The Cummins Onan 5000 watt generator is also very low hours and can energize anything you might want to power including a small Mig-welded if need be.

The aft Captains’ Quarters has a queen berth with stowage underneath and closet space at the foot of bed. A/C and DC lighting and plug-in’s everywhere. The rear head features a full size manual toilet, separate grey water holding tank and a huge stand-up walk-in shower with convenient fold-down teak seat.

In the hallway leading to aft cabin there are closets and access to the hot water heater system and drive shaft.

It is obvious this vessel was built by a genius builder/engineer who took his time and spent a lot of money on the finest equipment available for a blue-water performance cruiser.
The weld-work is second to none. We hauled it out recently last March 2018 and spent over $9,000.00 eliminating potential problems, professionally welding and patching several small holes in the anchor-locker area, and strengthened the skeg rudder attachment to insure many years of worry free traveling.

It has a thick epoxy barrier covering the entire exterior and epoxy painted inside throughout. It is also foam insulated throughout most of the boat covered in wooden wainscoting for superior temperature control. While hauled-out we raised the water line on the 6”, then coated it with five layers of tie-coat and SeaHawk bottom paint from the water line down. New zincs installed and Prop-Speed antifouling applied to the shaft/prop.

The sails are in great shape and the genoa recently had new Sunbrella sewn on to upgrade the UV protection. The Spin-Tech Triumph 2000 roller furling is virtually fool-proof and very substantial. The battened main has a stack-pack and lazy jacks for ease of use. The hank-on cutter sail is new.

Hawk is fully wired from bow to stern with both A/C and DC wiring featuring many convenient outlets.

The C-Tronix AP9000 autopilot functions beautifully with the duel hydraulic steering and with the skeg rudder maneuvering in reverse and docking is vastly superior to full-keel vessels.

While on the hard recently, a crack was detected near the rear of the skeg attachment to the hull, so that area was beefed up with welded doubling plates by a certified marine welder to insure it’s indefinite structural integrity for decades to come.

There is a thick epoxy barrier coat on the outer hull extending to the toe rails. During the haul out two coats of Seahawk “Tie-coat” and three layers of external ablative antifouling Seahawk bottom paint were applied and the waterline was raised 6 inches in anticipation of being loaded for international destinations.

The galley has a massive DC cold plate refrigeration system that is highly insulated as can be seen in the photos. The stove is a three burner stainless steel stove/oven combination on gimbals.

The sink has hot and cold running water, a water spout connected to a filter system for drinking water, as well as a powered salt water spigot to use while cruising.
There is a powerful microwave installed as well.

There are two ac/heater units installed forward cabin is a 16000 BTU unit and a 9000 BTU unit in the Captain’s quarters.

Hot water electric heater with approximately 10 gallon capacity and a walk in shower in the captains quarters as well as a full size toilet. The forward head has a sit-down shower head with a pull-out showered emanating from the sink spigot. Johnson pumps installed in both shower rooms.

Research shows that Bruce Roberts 434-D’s average over $100,000.00 sales price. This example is not perfect (yet) but is in very good shape with most all systems functioning properly. "Hawk" is not a beginners sailboat. It is more like a combination trawler and sailboat. However she handles like a 24' o'Day due to the knife-blade keel and skeg rudder combination. She is fast under power (at least 10K, and has a hull speed of 11K+. We are offering her for $75,000.00 (Or best reasonable offer). Just in time for a summertime journey anywhere in the world. You will never ever find another boat as well equipped and practical as this boat. If your goal is open sea adventure, "Hawk" can take you anywhere in the world right now! Please call Lee @ 407-406-4329

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I can think of a whole lot better ways of spending $75K. Look how crusty that hull looks under that poop deck - and that's in a photo. Imagine what it's like in the flesh.

And even if it was a tip top build, the design is just another Roberts POS.

image.png.1a1f4c4693ae3a112fed34abb4c0e4d9.png

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46 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I can think of a whole lot better ways of spending $75K. Look how crusty that hull looks under that poop deck - and that's in a photo. Imagine what it's like in the flesh.

And even if it was a tip top build, the design is just another Roberts POS.

image.png.1a1f4c4693ae3a112fed34abb4c0e4d9.png

Whaddaya mean?!? That's a performance cruiser. Says so in the ad! 

I have a performance bridge for sale btw. PM me.

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3 hours ago, Tempest said:

.30728183_10160300430740613_6910470781466050560_n.jpg.759874a1d9ea2b2095d4f4a6d91fe8ba.jpg30705316_10160300431110613_5032723230117330944_n.jpg.998e88556069b241b5eb821dbfebb7c6.jpg

No. Absolutely, no.

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4 hours ago, Bull City said:

No. Absolutely, no.

Really!?!?  Why not?  You seem pretty sure about it being a bad idea haha.

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38 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Really!?!?  Why not?  You seem pretty sure about it being a bad idea haha.

It's a Bruce Roberts design, it's old, it's rusting away, you need a fisheye lens to use the head or the galley. It's 30 feet of accommodations squeezed into 43 feet of corroding metal. What's not to love?

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

It's a Bruce Roberts design, it's old, it's rusting away, you need a fisheye lens to use the head or the galley. It's 30 feet of accommodations squeezed into 43 feet of corroding metal. What's not to love?

I see Bruce Roberts' name come up all the time.  Was he a shit designer?  I thought steel was an ok hull material as long as it was cared for but I guess the age might be factoring in a bit.  Just thought 1998 wasn't so old that it would be turning to dust.

10 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I can think of a whole lot better ways of spending $75K. Look how crusty that hull looks under that poop deck - and that's in a photo. Imagine what it's like in the flesh.

And even if it was a tip top build, the design is just another Roberts POS.

 

I did notice the crustyness under the paint.... guess it could be problematic but I assumed you would fix any issues with the metal before painting over it but I've see a lot of shitty work in my time.  Still, I was unaware that Bruce Roberts was a shit designer.

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Roberts, the seas of Oz are full of his tubs, they are on the bottom of the food chain here.

There is even a fake Roberts site that sells his pirated designs cheap.

that boat was not “expertly built”, look at the chines, it’s a home build that probably sat in someone’s backyard rusting for years before it hit the water.

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I don't think Roberts actually designed many or any of his boats. He may have been qualified but he was more of a promoter. He had designers on staff in his various offices who did the actual design work. When he had an office here Graham Shannon worked for him and designed the 34' double ender Roberts 341 - one of Roberts nicer designs.

Back in the 70's he was the king of the backyard builder world. He had some designs that were decent for the time but that was then and this is now.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I don't think Roberts actually designed many or any of his boats. He may have been qualified but he was more of a promoter. He had designers on staff in his various offices who did the actual design work. When he had an office here Graham Shannon worked for him and designed the 34' double ender Roberts 341 - one of Roberts nicer designs.

Back in the 70's he was the king of the backyard builder world. He had some designs that were decent for the time but that was then and this is now.

The Brent Swain of the 70s?

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

The Brent Swain of the 70s?

Ta-da!

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

The Brent Swain of the 70s?

A definite contender to Jay Benford. Brent is in his own universe, no reasonable comparisons exist.

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I had a sneaky feeling they were shit boxes.  Trying to remember what the other dubious one is I see all the time.  I'll post when I find one.

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B. Roberts is a shit designer. His skegs were notorious for cracking off. If the boat was so immaculately welded in the first place why all the hull repairs. Port hull aft looks like shit. And how will it go 10 knots under power with a 55hp engine. I could go on but cannot be bothered. 

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6 hours ago, Tempest said:

Thoughts?  IIRC C&C is a reputable manufacturer.  They don't mention a second cabin but the layout on sailboatdata shows a second, aft cabin.  Bluewater ability?  Problems with these units?

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/d/cc-sailboat-immaculate/6568428690.html

A good friend had one of these. Nice boats! The "aft cabin" is not really a cabin, it's more of an open area under the fwd part of the cockpit with a big flat place to sleep. Not much headroom.

It's a good-sailing boat, and they cruised the US East Coast + Bahamas in theirs as well as racing it locally.

FB- Doug

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10 hours ago, Tempest said:

Thoughts?  IIRC C&C is a reputable manufacturer.  They don't mention a second cabin but the layout on sailboatdata shows a second, aft cabin.  Bluewater ability?  Problems with these units?

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/d/cc-sailboat-immaculate/6568428690.html

That one is a bit of a conundrum. It looks more like the 37+ than the 41 on the outside, but the layout is classic 41. It may be late in the production run when they modified some of the features. The original 41 didn't have a recessed companionway or a folding transom step or split windows on the house. http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/brochures/41foot/41b1pg01.htm

Nice boats regardless.

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1 hour ago, fufkin said:

Here's a 1987 version of the C&C 41 w split windows. 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/C%26C-41-3189893/RI/United-States?refSource=browse listing

...never noticed a foldout transom on a 41 though...

agreed though, really nice boats

That is one gorgeous boat.

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1 hour ago, MauiPunter said:

That is one gorgeous boat.

Price is reasonable, too. Most of the ones I looked into a couple years ago were asking low six figures, languishing on the market while maintenance was neglected, and finally going out the door in the sixties with lots  of cosmetic and moisture issues yet to be addressed. Agree  this one looks like a good boat. 

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On 4/26/2018 at 9:12 AM, fufkin said:

Here's a 1987 version of the C&C 41 w split windows. 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/C%26C-41-3189893/RI/United-States?refSource=browse listing

...never noticed a foldout transom on a 41 though...

agreed though, really nice boats

Nice lookin' vessle.  Why would the keel have been replaced?  That kinda gets the alarm bells ringing.

 

I did a bunch of digging around and read some mixed reviews on whether or not the C&C's were built well enough for offshore use.  I was kinda surprised to find that not everyone thought they were well built.

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C&C's were very well built production boats - not the best by any means but very good. Especially the ones that came out of the Custom Shop (Bruckmanns)

I've never heard of anyone saying they regretted buying a C&C and lots of them have been offshore.

Hell, the most fragile boat they ever built (Evergreen) survived the '79 Fastnet intact.

I suspect the keel was replaced with the wing to reduce the draft - I'd guess it originally pushed 8'

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https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/d/40-mid-cockpit-yawl-sailboat/6587332788.html

This old girl might be a little crusty but I still find it interesting.  Nice looking binnacle.  Seems strange to see a 40' boat of that vintage with 2 cabins.  But really?  New power in 2003 but someone painted the WHOLE engine, including the alternator?  Sketchy.  Did Palagic build many boats?  Wouldn't that be considered a Ketch since the mizzen isn't behind the stern waterline, or does it only need to be behind the rudder?

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2 hours ago, Tempest said:

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/boa/d/40-mid-cockpit-yawl-sailboat/6587332788.html

This old girl might be a little crusty but I still find it interesting.  Nice looking binnacle.  Seems strange to see a 40' boat of that vintage with 2 cabins.  But really?  New power in 2003 but someone painted the WHOLE engine, including the alternator?  Sketchy.  Did Palagic build many boats?  Wouldn't that be considered a Ketch since the mizzen isn't behind the stern waterline, or does it only need to be behind the rudder?

I remember the name Pelagic from BITD - they built quite a few boats as I recall. Maybe the Pacific 30? My memory about them is very vague but has a good vibe attached FWIW. ;)

Possibly they built glass fishboats.

I've seen lots of new engines with everything including the hoses painted so I don't think the alternator is out of the ordinary.

The old rule about yawls & ketches was the rudder post - forward of it was a ketch and aft of it was a yawl.

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2 hours ago, Tempest said:

Wow!  Price looks good.  Would be better with a couple extra feet but really doesn't look bad...

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/bod/d/swan-38/6563077379.html

I know that boat. It used to spend the winter under its original shipping cover on the hard in Thunderbird.

45 year old screwed down teak decks are the deal breaker on that one.

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17 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I remember the name Pelagic from BITD - they built quite a few boats as I recall. Maybe the Pacific 30? My memory about them is very vague but has a good vibe attached FWIW. ;)

Possibly they built glass fishboats.

I've seen lots of new engines with everything including the hoses painted so I don't think the alternator is out of the ordinary.

The old rule about yawls & ketches was the rudder post - forward of it was a ketch and aft of it was a yawl. 

Interesting.  Well when I get some time I'll research Palagic a little deeper.

Really!?  Painting hoses seems super hokie for a manufacturer.  If I was building engines I wouldn't be painting hoses and alternators but, hey, if it's new it's new.  That just usually the kinda shit you see when people are trying to hide things.

Yeah, I figured that was the rule.  Guess that could be the case on that unit.

17 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I know that boat. It used to spend the winter under its original shipping cover on the hard in Thunderbird.

45 year old screwed down teak decks are the deal breaker on that one.

Ahhh, good to know.  Thanks for the heads up.  Might be worth going to look at just for the sake of looking.  I need to get my feet on some boats :/

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