bartman99

Where do you work on your boat?

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I am in the process of buying a 26' sailboat (S2 7.9). It will be on a trailer. The deck will need fiberglass work.  I plan on taking on that project. My problem is that I don't have a garage big enough to fit the boat. Where I live is kind of landlocked too (Charlottesville, VA) .  I plan on sailing out of a marina about 2 hrs away (which would be the closest boat yard too).  I don't really want to commute 4hrs each time I work on the boat, so I am looking for suggestions that I can investigate near home.  I was thinking of one of the canvas shelters, but not sure if the complete lack of temperature regulation would be a problem with fiberglass work. I can't afford to build another stickbuilt garage at this time. What do other people do? WHat about renting a large space (garage, warehouse, workshop)? Seems that would be expensive. Any other suggestions?

Bart

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Depends on when you want to do the work. 

Unmounting hardware, grinding etc can be done cold. A good vacuum assisted tool is worth investment (Festoolusa.com) 

If you have wet core, you may want to cover, ventilate by excising as much as you can  and let dry over winter. 

Doing the actual layup, you will want the mass of the boat at reasonable temp, you can potentially do it in spring, or if you want to do in winter find a heated workspace that is dust tolerant. 

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Let me second Lion...depends on when you want to do the work...if you wait till March, you can get most of it done in c-ville, and get away with a brown "heavy duty" tarp over the deck/area being dealt with when not working.  A bunch of bungies work great, and you can throw the tarp away after your done.  Re-did the deck of an S2 9.1 that way in Norfolk VA.

Alternately, you could get more adventurous and build a temp shelter our of curved PVC pipe and plastic sheeting (think Quonset hut style).  You'd have a reasonable chance of even being able to heat it up some to get work done in Jan/Feb.  Remember to vent the ends to make sure moisture can escape/fresh air can get in...

What work are you trying to do???  OBTW, driving 4 hours to work on the boat wastes a ton of time, and you have to be really careful about planning, cause if you get to the boat without a critical tool or supply....you've wasted a bunch of time...

 

 

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If you have a space somewhere, you can buy quite large marquees like this:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12m-x-6m-Party-Pavilion-Gazebo-Marquee/390910546102?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

for several hundred $$ to give a clean, more or less weatherproof environment, and sell it for a reasonable amount when finished. That's my plan for my next resto project.

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8 hours ago, bartman99 said:

I am in the process of buying a 26' sailboat (S2 7.9). It will be on a trailer. The deck will need fiberglass work.  I plan on taking on that project. My problem is that I don't have a garage big enough to fit the boat. Where I live is kind of landlocked too (Charlottesville, VA) .  I plan on sailing out of a marina about 2 hrs away (which would be the closest boat yard too).  I don't really want to commute 4hrs each time I work on the boat, so I am looking for suggestions that I can investigate near home.  I was thinking of one of the canvas shelters, but not sure if the complete lack of temperature regulation would be a problem with fiberglass work. I can't afford to build another stickbuilt garage at this time. What do other people do? WHat about renting a large space (garage, warehouse, workshop)? Seems that would be expensive. Any other suggestions?

Bart

Shrink plastic film, pvc pipe, cable ties and a few strategic placed steel beam to keep structure  firm ...typically standard scaffolding is used as the steel  to firm up the cover.

 

these covers are very robust , wind and waterproof and can last more than a year.

 

do some googling for ideas

 

IMG_7240.JPG

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Thanks for the advice. Those are nice looking tools!

Crash: 4 hours is the round-trip time, but you are right.  That's why I want to do it at my home.  I will be redoing the mast step and any other areas I find.

Fleetwood: Thats the thing I was thinking of.  WIll likely need to extend the poles to get more height.

Slug: Now that's something I hadn't seen before.I will need to look more into that.

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Just to set expectations, the idea of ventilating wet core is hopeful but impractical. It took decades for water to wick its way into those nooks and crannies; it is not going to come out over a couple of weeks of warm-ish weather or engineered climate. You're going to have to cut/dig/scrape it out no matter where you keep the boat, and no more than a few millimeters of whatever is left will really dry out naturally (if at all).

My boat has never been covered - never. Rather than trying to bite off little pieces of this project as you have an hour or two at a time over the winter, I'd suggest biting the bullet and doing the whole job over a few days at once when the weather is warm enough for epoxy to set. If you have the right tools and materials on hand it really isn't too hard, and the dust you're going to create is messy but quite inert. I use a grinder with a diamond blade for the cutting, a chisel and a Harbor Freight oscillating saw to dig out the old core, 1/2" foam core from Defender, 3/16" G10 for the replacement skin, and 4" tape to bond the replacement skin to the surrounding deck after grinding a 2" bevel all around both sides of the repair. Mast step repair is the same except using something solid like 1/2" G10 or plywood (if a curve is necessary) instead of foam.

My experiences with core repair follow....

First one: replacing deck in cockpit, working around fuel tank fill and rudderpost penetration:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?11259-1969-E32-cockpit-core-repair-an-illustrated-guide

Second: replacing deck area on port side:

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7213&page=3

Third, most complicated: replacing mast step on curved deck:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?13256-Seeking-advice-on-E32-mast-step-repair

 

 

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Bartman99,

This probably is a bit over to top for you but I bought a structure from Shelter Logic to cover my boat while she undergoes a complete refit. It wasn't cheap but it was easy and quick to put up and is extremely durable. You can go out to their website and configure one for the size you'll need and get a price quote.

 I'll sell it whenever I get the project done. Which may be a long time from now...

large.5a2c7604f24c2_ShedFront.jpg.8742d3f242b7d0f70a2f79c934390062.jpg

Realistically, you could build a structure over your deck and use the shrink-wrap method mentioned by slug zitski for much cheaper.

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9 hours ago, bartman99 said:

Thanks for the advice. Those are nice looking tools!

Crash: 4 hours is the round-trip time, but you are right.  That's why I want to do it at my home.  I will be redoing the mast step and any other areas I find.

Fleetwood: Thats the thing I was thinking of.  WIll likely need to extend the poles to get more height.

Slug: Now that's something I hadn't seen before.I will need to look more into that.

Same, I was thinking of driving timber posts into the ground (temporary so I don't care if they rot some) then bolting the tent onto them and putting 1/2 sheets of ply between the poles to seal it up. Plus a few guy lines!

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On 12/8/2017 at 9:08 PM, bartman99 said:

I am in the process of buying a 26' sailboat (S2 7.9). It will be on a trailer. The deck will need fiberglass work.  I plan on taking on that project. My problem is that I don't have a garage big enough to fit the boat. Where I live is kind of landlocked too (Charlottesville, VA) .  I plan on sailing out of a marina about 2 hrs away (which would be the closest boat yard too).  I don't really want to commute 4hrs each time I work on the boat, so I am looking for suggestions that I can investigate near home.  I was thinking of one of the canvas shelters, but not sure if the complete lack of temperature regulation would be a problem with fiberglass work. I can't afford to build another stickbuilt garage at this time. What do other people do? WHat about renting a large space (garage, warehouse, workshop)? Seems that would be expensive. Any other suggestions?

Bart

The prep work for fiberglass takes longer then the glass part in general. Most just pick a good day to glass and go from there. Clear or other plastic enclosures can bring up the temp some.

These shelters are popular with the DIY boat crowd

http://www.by-the-sea.com/stimsonmarine/bowroof.html

 

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One caveat on building your own shelter. Are you in a PUD?  Are there zoning restrictions that might come into play?

C’ville isn’t Annapolis where it’s normal to see covers boats next to houses all winter. Make sure your neighbors are cool with your plan if there is any chance one of them might want to shut you down. 

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Those temp garages usually use the same diameter tubing as chain link fence top rail which is pretty cheap and available at every DIY store for making longer legs.  I had to make downhill legs longer once to level the "roof"

Edit- I think King Kanopy was the brand I had.

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Another suggestion: see if there are any empty warehouses or large garages in town, rent it/part of it, and do the work under a stable shelter no matter rain or snow. I live in Norfolk so lots around, but I'll bet lots in C'ville too Might be more expensive, but tons of room and power make it faster and therefore cheaper. With the boat on a trailer, you have lots of options.

Diablo%20Makeover-M.jpg

When this pic was taken there was snow on the ground, but we were painting the boot stripe, doing some epoxy work, and the mast was on saw horses being painted.

Cheers, Greg

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I made a shed for my boat out of concrete reinforcing mesh bent over the boat and covered with a pvc billboard skin. Sold the mesh afterwards for the same amount I paid. 

Do you have a garage at all? Poke half the boat in and stretch a tarp over the rest?

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Those Stimson sheds are just about the best deal for a temp boat shed. I first read about them in the Gougeon's book 40 years ago.

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17 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Those Stimson sheds are just about the best deal for a temp boat shed. I first read about them in the Gougeon's book 40 years ago.

My boss is building one right now for a cat boat restoration and I've been watching with piqued interest. Last time I checked, it was looking like he'd be dried in for less than a grand. Granted, he did have some scraps for misc parts and shrink wrap already, but you'd never get a pre-fab building that size for anywhere close to a grand.

Digging around online, I've seen some elaborate builds that last for upwards of ten years. Knowing how long it takes me to get anything done on my own boat, one might actually last the duration.

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Now, I'm taking over a warehouse. My career is close to retirement. I've decided the best way to stay active is to work for myself and to work on boats. The future looks FUN!

5a431803ef74b_workshop3.thumb.jpg.2842d6bdfacbe31a9affafa53742313d.jpg

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On 2017-12-20 at 2:25 PM, mtn_matt said:

I've been thinking of building one of these. They're temporary, easy to build (or so they appear), can take a snow load and cheaper than most of the alternatives....

https://maineboats.com/print/issue-142/say-goodbye-tarp

You don't have to go with such an advance bout house. Fairly common in the Nordic countries to raise and dismantle the house each season. Google a bit and you will find a lot of simple plans. Just make sure that the angle of the roof is at least 45 degrees if you are risking snow. 

 

A couple of examples

1.jpg.9316f741631d18b22055859c7bd641c3.jpg

2.jpg.1ae0ac326787a939b368af8c733f0d3c.jpg

This was where I was working on the boat this weekend

IMG_1383.jpeg.310df4d060fbbabda1aec66f88344aa8.jpeg

 

 

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Right here in the slip is where I work on my boat.

Chainplates, rigging, mast climbing, electrical, plumbing, deck hardware, built a new bowsprit, ripped off the old teak decks, new balsa core, new glass skin, fill & fair, 2-part LPU deck paint and non-skid, teak trailboard and toe rail restoration, new jib tracks, new main sheet traveller, new glass cockpit coamings etc, etc...

My marina is pretty cool about fiberglass dust flying through the air...

IMG_6012.jpg

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Good looking boat. I refinished the deck of my Quarter Pounder at the dock and didn't get any complaints - a couple of disapproving looks from passers by was all.

I think I'd do it in the yard in future though.

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On 12/26/2017 at 10:52 PM, 4tied said:

Now, I'm taking over a warehouse. My career is close to retirement. I've decided the best way to stay active is to work for myself and to work on boats. The future looks FUN!

5a431803ef74b_workshop3.thumb.jpg.2842d6bdfacbe31a9affafa53742313d.jpg

Wow. Looks cool. In Virginia (I see boat registration)?  If I may ask, how much do you pay for a warehouse?

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Bartman, I've been repairing/restoring big boats on the side for many years and I finished building the blue i550 recently. My engineering career is finished in a few years (can't stand the cubicle). I purchased this warehouse in Carrollton VA. I want to mess with boats. I currently have two large boats to restore the topsides and bottoms on (white one is mine, blue one is close friend and tenant). Are you in the area?

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On 12/27/2017 at 4:52 AM, 4tied said:

Now, I'm taking over a warehouse. My career is close to retirement. I've decided the best way to stay active is to work for myself and to work on boats. The future looks FUN!

5a431803ef74b_workshop3.thumb.jpg.2842d6bdfacbe31a9affafa53742313d.jpg

Nothing wrong with a warehouse.  

Be alert to the toxic environment that you wil create inside the building .

the advantage of a plastic shrink wrap tent is that after the project is over you can throw the whole toxic structure away .

 

 

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8 hours ago, 4tied said:

Bartman, I've been repairing/restoring big boats on the side for many years and I finished building the blue i550 recently. My engineering career is finished in a few years (can't stand the cubicle). I purchased this warehouse in Carrollton VA. I want to mess with boats. I currently have two large boats to restore the topsides and bottoms on (white one is mine, blue one is close friend and tenant). Are you in the area?

Bought a warehouse. Nice. 

Can I drag my boat project, now officially a "hobby", down and have you finish it?  ;)

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Definitely, working indoors doesn't relieve one from the responsibilities of containing hazardous dust. I encapsulate much like someone working outdoors would. The advantage of working indoors comes with temperature and moisture control. I've left many a outdoor topside paint jobs, some them covered with plastic tent, in the evening only to come back the next day and have the gloss ruined by morning dew. It so much easier to predict results of epoxy bonding and two part paint curing performance when the environment is controlled. 

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24 minutes ago, 4tied said:

Definitely, working indoors doesn't relieve one from the responsibilities of containing hazardous dust. I encapsulate much like someone working outdoors would. The advantage of working indoors comes with temperature and moisture control. I've left many a outdoor topside paint jobs, some them covered with plastic tent, in the evening only to come back the next day and have the gloss ruined by morning dew. It so much easier to predict results of epoxy bonding and two part paint curing performance when the environment is controlled. 

Yup....

another detail when you move boats inside is insurance ..liabiity

you should have a good talk with your insurance agent...if you dont trust what the agent says , contact the insurance company of one of the boats you have under cover.

normally yachts are covered by insurance if they are in a recognized storage area and handled   by qualified persons .

fire protection is typically a  requirement  for a qualified storage area

I see that the boats are on jackstands...again ask the  insurance company to clarify your liability..... for instance , who can move those stands and decide how to block a  boat ? are you  the qualified person ? . 

In some regions disposal of waste...toxics....is complex  and regulated .

 

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Yup! All these issues need to be considered. That's way costs get inflated, to cover insurance premiums and qualification expenses. The disposal of hazards is the same whether working indoors or out. Additionally, boat transport is not cheap. It all adds up. 

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Everything takes longer than you think it will.  Once you start working on something, a hundred more issues will totally blindside you and your wallet.  The benefit is that the winter time haulout will end up involving lots of long warm summer days when you can get a lot done outside.  My last "two month" haulout was early February and I didn't get it back in the water until October.  I was really considering doing it again this year.  I need new bottom paint and a few other minor jobs should be done out of the water.  But there are no DIY boatyards anywhere near me and the rates the yards want for minor work is ludicrous.  The only option is really to truck the boat home to the ranch and park it next to the shop. Really wish I had built the high-bay originally planned for the workshop, but that fell out of the construction budget. Turned out to be false economy.  

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Another unforeseen issue with hauling the boat home to the ranch - being somewhat mountainous around here, level ground does not exist, nor are muddy farm lanes necessarily adequate to support a 10,000 lb boat.  I had to have a considerable amount of rock ballast hauled in to make a place to park the boat then make a place to turn the loaded trailer around.  

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14 minutes ago, M26 said:

26ft, Balkan way, and it did hold for a year and a half....
tent.thumb.JPG.27c1cb65894fc8aea13162c98b25f9af.JPG

Opps....BORA !

!!!! INCOMING !!!!!....

IMG_7684.png

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it survived two winters with few minor repairs needed... it's secret was that it was well fixed to the building, which was also a perfect shelter from Burja.  But I have to admit that a few times I was surprised to see it the next morning still there safe and sound.... 

 

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Yup...you need good protection .

some of the lighthouses in your neighborhood have blast walls to prevent the structure from blowing away 

IMG_7693.JPG

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