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LB 15

Hug your teenager

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Our very close Bayside community is in shock and morning today after a well loved local 17 year old boy died in a single vehicle accident 200 mts from his home early Sunday morning. He was a good mate of my youngest son - they had known each other since they were born and my boy is inconsolable. Doesn't look like alcohol was involved but speed certainly was. What can you say to your kid when this happens? A lecture about road safety will come at the appropriate time, but for now hugs and mates are helping. Good knows what Shawn's parents are going through, but all i want to do is grab every kid I see and tell them to drive carefully. Shawn had just left school, was of to university next year and was loving life. If you have a teenager please use this as an excuse to remind them how precious they are and how fragile life is. No parent should ever have to bury their child. RIP Shawn, you were a great kid and didn't deserve this. Off to hug my son again now. 

 

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Condolences LB, we're thinking of you guys, what a horrible thing to deal with in the lead up to XMas. 

I'll give both girls an extra big hug tonight, then have a quiet beer for Shawn's family .

There but for the grace of god go I.....humbling and frightening to think life can be so fleeting .

Anything we can do mate.....Sending positive thoughts to you all.

 

Regards,

SB

 

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And here's me just telling my girl to get on her scooter more. :(  

So sad for your son and his friend..It's hard when kids have to experience this kind of thing so young. Watch him..boys grieve differently, random hugs can't hurt though.

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Our very close Bayside community is in shock and morning today after a well loved local 17 year old boy died in a single vehicle accident 200 mts from his home early Sunday morning. He was a good mate of my youngest son - they had known each other since they were born and my boy is inconsolable. Doesn't look like alcohol was involved but speed certainly was. What can you say to your kid when this happens? A lecture about road safety will come at the appropriate time, but for now hugs and mates are helping. Good knows what Shawn's parents are going through, but all i want to do is grab every kid I see and tell them to drive carefully. Shawn had just left school, was of to university next year and was loving life. If you have a teenager please use this as an excuse to remind them how precious they are and how fragile life is. No parent should ever have to bury their child. RIP Shawn, you were a great kid and didn't deserve this. Off to hug my son again now. 

 

I lost one of my best friends at 18, also in a car accident, she was going to her first exam in college. Four kids died that morning. 

Time helps healing the wounds, but next Saturday it will be 25 years since she past and it still hurts. 

 

My condolences to you and your son, I'm really sorry.

 

 

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Condolences mate. I wasn’t afraid of anything until the day my daughter was born, I can’t imagine the pain Shawn’s parents must be going through. 

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Tough stuff. Seen it SO many times over the years and I never got used to it.....ever. I'd guess you don't even have to mention the safer driving lecture.....I'l bet the circumstances are seared into his brain through the loss of someone close. 

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Similar things happened to a couple of kids in my sons class. I don't think that anything but time & experience smartens them up.

The safe driving talk is mandatory but don't expect it to have much effect until they outgrow their immortality.

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Thank you all for your thoughts. There have been lots of tears over the past 24 hour and I am not ashamed to admit plenty from me to. Like so many of us I lost my best mate at 19 in a car crash. To watch my boy going through this pain is heartbreaking. This is like some horrible right of passage for teenagers it seems. For so many in our community ,particularly the kids, this tragic event is the grinch that stole Christmas this year. For Shawns parents it is the grinch that stole the rest of their lives. His young life was just getting started - and this period after you leave school is the happiest time of your youth. Watching the kids grieve has been inspirational- they have turned the crash site into a meeting place - it is a sea of flowers and they all keep going up their to talk, hug and cry. They are helping each other get through this more than we parents ever could. 

As I am writing this the tears are rolling down my face- i t is just so sad and so unnessecery. If you have teenagers please, please get them to read this thread and to turn those fucking phones off when they are driving. Burying your mates at this age is a dreadful welcome to adulthood. 

Hug them close folks. Thanks again for your thoughts.

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I am so sorry for the loss and for what you and your son must be going through. There are no words that an make sense of something like this. I will be making it a point to be intentional about hugging the family and letting them know how much they mean to me.

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So sad. Terrible news... I feel for all concerned.

My old man died in '98 S2H... Christmas has never been the same since...

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Very little I can add, apart from condolence.  

Maybe just spend a little more time with your loved ones, of all ages. Life is short. 

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sad, sad news. condolences and thoughts. I hug them every day, will give them an extra one today.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Very little I can add, apart from condolence.  

Maybe just spend a little more time with your loved ones, of all ages. Life is short. 

+1

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Very little I can add, apart from condolence.  

Maybe just spend a little more time with your loved ones, of all ages. Life is short. 

Very well said.

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So sorry to hear this LB and feeling for you mate. My eldest is 17 and got his licence a few months ago. I keep telling him "Do not use your mobile whilst driving" and "Tell your mates too".

When we were in our late teens it was alcohol that was the problem. Now it's alcohol, drugs and phones.  Add in all three and it's a lethal combination.

Said son has been working three looong days out at a farm helping out with the harvest. The farm is about 120kms from home. He said he might come home yesterday after knocking off around 5pm as it started to rain but I said to him no stay out there I don't want you driving tired, on wet roads with B-Double road trains carting 100t of grain on a dodgy highway. He listened, thankfully. I'll be hugging him when I see him next (he lives with his mum).

Once again really sorry for your son to lose a mate at such a young age. And sorry to hear the grief it's causing you too. 

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3 hours ago, mad said:

Very little I can add, apart from condolence.  

Maybe just spend a little more time with your loved ones, of all ages. Life is short. 

+1

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That's a crushing blow. Far winds to the Lad and a big hug to all the ones left behind.

Carry on Mate. They'll be looking to you for the strength to carry on themselves.

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So sorry for the loss of your son’s friend. So very painful. 

December 19 marks 31 years since my younger brother died in a car crash. Time makes it bearable, but if never leaves. 

 

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Man, so sorry. Brings back very painful memories of my neighour's son who died very similarly, same age. I used to give him lifts to school. Would be 7 years ago now. It is almost impossible to imagine the pain when someone goes like that. The promise unfulfilled, the hole left.

And it seems it is the worst for the close friends. It is a vulnerable age, a time of developing a real adult sense of self, and existential questions about life. The loss of a close friend makes such transitions in life far harder. Just when friendship can really matter. 

Yeah, hug your kids close. For yours and their sakes.

Keep safe.

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Thanks LB.

Suddenly I realize that the burnout I did last weekend with the 6 and 12 year-olds in the back seat,  just to get a rise out of "Mum"  was not that funny.

What a terrible example I lead.

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18 hours ago, LB 15 said:

. Watching the kids grieve has been inspirational- they have turned the crash site into a meeting place - it is a sea of flowers and they all keep going up their to talk, hug and cry. They are helping each other get through this more than we parents ever could. 

 

Wifey ran a high school debate team and one Saturday morning one of her brightest kids was killed by a drunk driver who ran a stoplight at 6:00 am while he was on the way to a tournament.  

The memorial that the kids put on at the high school was simply amazing.  The staff got out of the way and the kids did the whole thing themselves from speakers/speeches to musical selections. Must have been a couple thousand in attendance at a school that graduated less than 200 a year. It was truly inspirational the way these young folks came together to support one another and eulogize one of their own.

As I'm typing this I am getting all choked up just remembering. 

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18 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

So sorry for the loss of your son’s friend. So very painful. 

December 19 marks 31 years since my younger brother died in a car crash. Time makes it bearable, but if never leaves. 

 

Man that is tough mate. Merry Christmas to you and your family. My lad is going to uni next year to join you in the worlds most important profession. Respect .

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On 12 December 2017 at 3:29 AM, Point Break said:

Tough stuff. Seen it SO many times over the years and I never got used to it.....ever. I'd guess you don't even have to mention the safer driving lecture.....I'l bet the circumstances are seared into his brain through the loss of someone close. 

And respect to you PB. A good mate of mine was a fiery as well and he was a 'jaws of life' specialist. Cutting kids out of car wreaks is a job we need to make redundant! You guys and the coppers who have to do the knock on the parents door have the toughest job on earth. 

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18 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

So sorry for the loss of your son’s friend. So very painful. 

December 19 marks 31 years since my younger brother died in a car crash. Time makes it bearable, but if never leaves. 

 

Sorry to hear this as well. Darn tough stuff.

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1 minute ago, LB 15 said:

And respect to you PB. A good mate of mine was a fiery as well and he was a 'jaws of life' specialist. Cutting kids out of car wreaks is a job we need to make redundant! You guys and the coppers who have to do the knock on the parents door have the toughest job on earth. 

Thank you sir. I got more from the job in satisfaction than I can ever describe but I appreciate your kind words especially given how hard I know it is for you now. My worst ever was telling two sets of parents that their young sons (14 as I recall and classmates) had burned to death in one of their RV's parked in a storage lot in the neighborhood. They had snuck out in the night together to drink some beers and a candle got knocked over, and the fire prevented their escape. I still remember sitting in their living room (they were neighbors and lived in the same duplex as well) at 2am and telling them their children were gone. Awful....just awful. I still tear up thinking about it. Having the parents show up at the scene of the wreck with their critically injured kids trapped that you are in the middle of cutting out is no fun either.

I wish you well, its so hard when its your children gone, hurt or suffering emotionally and there is nothing you can do to change it. You have my empathy and respect for doing the job. Parenting is hard...............

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I picked up my oldest boy from the airport last night. He has been in Japan for 3 weeks and we hadn't told him yet so we didn't ruin his trip. We talked for an hour in the car and we have decided to try and make some good of this. Sadly Alcohol was the cause as we have now found out, (it was very out of character for Shawn to have done that but it only takes one bad decision) so we are going to start a campaign for kids to look after their mates. 'Get the car keys off your mate' kind of thing. 'Mates don't let mates get in the car out of it.' Any ideas would be great. Maybe we can make this global? We have quite a community here and perhaps it could be a launching pad to save some lives. One way to grow participation in our sport is to keep kids alive long enough to get through these terrible teenage years. We can't bring Shawn back but maybe we can stop at least one other family from having to go through this. And thank you all again for your kind words.

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7 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I picked up my oldest boy from the airport last night. He has been in Japan for 3 weeks and we hadn't told him yet so we didn't ruin his trip. We talked for an hour in the car and we have decided to try and make some good of this. Sadly Alcohol was the cause as we have now found out, (it was very out of character for Shawn to have done that but it only takes one bad decision) so we are going to start a campaign for kids to look after their mates. 'Get the car keys off your mate' kind of thing. 'Mates don't let mates get in the car out of it.' Any ideas would be great. Maybe we can make this global? We have quite a community here and perhaps it could be a launching pad to save some lives. One way to grow participation in our sport is to keep kids alive long enough to get through these terrible teenage years. We can't bring Shawn back but maybe we can stop at least one other family from having to go through this. And thank you all again for your kind words.

Grief turned to action directed at helping others is always a healing combination. Respect to you sir.

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23 hours ago, charisma94 said:

So sad. Terrible news... I feel for all concerned.

My old man died in '98 S2H... Christmas has never been the same since...

Thanks mate. Do you still have your dads boat? If you are in Manly ever mate let me know and we might have a brew or 10. Merry Christmas to you and your.

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Yes I do, still a gorgeous thing she is too... And I look forward those beers.

Think I'm up your way late January, I'll give you a call.

I hope all those affected are coping OK. If that at all possible?

 

 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

I picked up my oldest boy from the airport last night. He has been in Japan for 3 weeks and we hadn't told him yet so we didn't ruin his trip. We talked for an hour in the car and we have decided to try and make some good of this. Sadly Alcohol was the cause as we have now found out, (it was very out of character for Shawn to have done that but it only takes one bad decision) so we are going to start a campaign for kids to look after their mates. 'Get the car keys off your mate' kind of thing. 'Mates don't let mates get in the car out of it.' Any ideas would be great. Maybe we can make this global? We have quite a community here and perhaps it could be a launching pad to save some lives. One way to grow participation in our sport is to keep kids alive long enough to get through these terrible teenage years. We can't bring Shawn back but maybe we can stop at least one other family from having to go through this. And thank you all again for your kind words.

We've got that basic slogan here - "Friends don't let friends drive drunk".

Apparently texting has taken over from drunk driving for number of deaths.

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1 hour ago, charisma94 said:

Yes I do, still a gorgeous thing she is too... And I look forward those beers.

Think I'm up your way late January, I'll give you a call.

I hope all those affected are coping OK. If that at all possible?

 

 

My boy and his mates are getting through this. The reality that he ain't going to walk into the house again is starting to hit home I think. The funeral will be truly awful next week. - From what i here Shawn's mother is in a really bad place as one would expect. The community has really stepped up - raised 15k already to help with the funeral and for some kind of memorial plaque at his old school. Look forward to catching up mate. 

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So sorry to hear this LB, the boy just got back from 5 days on the Gulf so gave him an extra large hug when he dropped by with fish...meanwhile, my 16 yr old daughter has had two kids in her extended circle of friends take their own lives in the span of 6 months, we've had to try and work through the initial emotional responses and get to discussions on keeping channels of communication open at all times...it's been a long process...

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36 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

We've got that basic slogan here - "Friends don't let friends drive drunk".

Apparently texting has taken over from drunk driving for number of deaths.

Yeah I didn't think it was an original idea, but the kids are keen to run with it. I think it needs to hit home to the kids with some real raw emotion that rings the kids bell. I would love to be able to film the emotion at the funeral for instance. Social and general media has made  kids a bit hardened towards death and slogans.. It needs to be very personal - like taking photos of them all together and photoshopping one of them out of it. 

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10 minutes ago, Grabbler said:

So sorry to hear this LB, the boy just got back from 5 days on the Gulf so gave him an extra large hug when he dropped by with fish...meanwhile, my 16 yr old daughter has had two kids in her extended circle of friends take their own lives in the span of 6 months, we've had to try and work through the initial emotional responses and get to discussions on keeping channels of communication open at all times...it's been a long process...

Mate that is awful. I hope your daughter is going OK. None of this was in the brochure when we signed up to be parents. Best wishes to your family mate.

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Been lookin for you and finally came over here. Sorry doesn’t cut it, I didn’t want to know what happened and am really bummed for your kid(and you). 

I will hug my kids and teach them right from wrong as long as I can and hope that they can live and do the same for theirs. 

God bless the kids family...

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Best to you and your son from the other side of the world.  Not from our daughters' school, but one 20 miles down the road had a teenager and her mother killed by a drunk driver a few months back.  Sobering to say the least and that is not an intentional play on words. 

We emphasize safe driving all the time to our daughters (17 and 19). We hope it gets through, but all it takes is one moment of distraction.  Now we heave the added stress of oldest at college a 4 hour drive away, worrying about her getting home on occasional Friday before dark at 430PM and all the deer start to cross highways.  And snow this time of year in our neck of the world.

Sadly one of our sailing friends of 20 some years lost his son to suicide earlier this year.  As you say, there is no parenting manual for any of these events, and we all do the best we can to guide them to making smart decisions in their lives.

Sounds like a good group of friends that will help each other get through this tragedy and hopefully make a difference in their circle and beyond to prevent recurrence. 

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On 11.12.2017 at 6:39 PM, SloopJonB said:

until they outgrow their immortality

very well put, all too well...

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Thanks for the prompt.

Hugged one of my blokes today, the other one is not nearby unfortunately.

Shed a tear or two as well.

My thoughts to you LB and those close.

 

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LB, I have no deep words of wisdom or experience, unlike so many here. Just know that onions are peeling here.

You, your son and his pals have my condolences and best wishes.

Kind regards

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9 hours ago, Black Sox said:

LB, I have no deep words of wisdom or experience, unlike so many here. Just know that onions are peeling here.

You, your son and his pals have my condolences and best wishes.

Kind regards

Thanks mate - Funeral is on Monday and it will be horrible. My son laughed yesterday for the first time since it happened. 

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I did some stupid shit with cars when i was a teenager, and looking back i am really lucky with what i got away with. Could have easily killed myself or one of my friends, or a stranger. Thankfully alcohol was never involved, but it was all stupid nonetheless. 

 

sorry for your loss LB, can't imagine what you all are going through. 

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So sorry to hear that.  My condolences to you and the family.  I cannot imagine the grief ...

My son walked out of his dorm Monday morning just after a kid jumped off the top of the parking garage next door, right next to the door to his place. Police had just got there. He was a bit shook at that - probably another engineering or science student since they seem to be clustered in that dorm.  He's home in 3 more days and he'll need a break.  He was grieving for the kid's family. 

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On 12/16/2017 at 2:31 PM, mustang__1 said:

I did some stupid shit with cars when i was a teenager, and looking back i am really lucky with what i got away with. Could have easily killed myself or one of my friends, or a stranger. Thankfully alcohol was never involved, but it was all stupid nonetheless. 

 

sorry for your loss LB, can't imagine what you all are going through. 

Didn't we all mate. Amazing that any teenagers survive. The funeral was yesterday and it is time for us all to move forward. Shawn will be 17 forever.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Didn't we all mate. Amazing that any teenagers survive. The funeral was yesterday and it is time for us all to move forward. Shawn will be 17 forever.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Three of my friends died before 25, 2 of them in a m/cycle accident when they went under a turning semi that didn't indicate. 2 more of us carry permanent injuries, me being one of them, from car/bike crashes. One of mine, I was well over the limit, lucky I didn't hit anything too hard.

Males under 25 don't seem to have good risk-judgement and many don't live long enough to generate it. Not sure what we can do about that. Safer and safer vehicles maybe.

That said one of my fondest memories from those years is heading north across the Hawkesbury River bridge up the Calga Expressway on a hotted Honda 600/4 motorcycle with my girlfriend on the back, watching the speedo needle flicker over the 110 mph mark. We were university students heading off to the Hunter Valley for a weekend of drinking & screwing.

Condolences LB - the survivors will get through it but will carry the scars, hopefully none of the rest will go the same way.

FKT

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Today marks 31 years since my younger brother decided he was sober enough to drive home from a Christmas party.  He will be 22 forever.

I hope everyone has a joyous holiday season.  And, if you choose to imbibe, I hope you choose to not drive.

RIP John.

 

john.jpg

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6 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Today marks 31 years since my younger brother decided he was sober enough to drive home from a Christmas party.  He will be 22 forever.

I hope everyone has a joyous holiday season.  And, if you choose to imbibe, I hope you choose to not drive.

RIP John.

What a great picture. Sorry about your brother. 

I have so many - hundreds, maybe a thousand or so - experiences at the business end of drunk driving that its very hard for me to be space giving with those who do. That said.....in my youth I am guilty of having driven when I should not have. Amazing what you can rationalize to yourself, especially when you are young. Its been a long long long time since I made that mistake though. A long long time.

Its just sad. Agreed...don't drink and drive.

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We were lucky with our daughter - she was one of four driving home from work on Pender Island  in an SUV that put two wheels in a deep ditch, jumped a driveway and hit a telephone pole that fell across the front seats and killed the stoned, unlicensed driver and passenger.

She was in the back seat with a boy and they survived. She was quite badly hurt but recovered physically, he only got scrapes.

That was quite the 3 A.M. phone call from the police. We were a 2 hour ferry ride and 70 mile drive away from the hospital she had been airlifted to - lots of time for us to freak out.

It kept her from ever learning to drive.

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13 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Today marks 31 years since my younger brother decided he was sober enough to drive home from a Christmas party.  He will be 22 forever.

I hope everyone has a joyous holiday season.  And, if you choose to imbibe, I hope you choose to not drive.

RIP John.

 

john.jpg

Respect mate. Best wishes to your family on this sad day.

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43 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Respect mate. Best wishes to your family on this sad day.

Thank you. 

Today, I did what I’ve done on this day for the past 22 years. Showed my students John’s picture and told them the story of how one bad decision destroys lives. I hope that makes a difference. 

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8 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Thank you. 

Today, I did what I’ve done on this day for the past 22 years. Showed my students John’s picture and told them the story of how one bad decision destroys lives. I hope that makes a difference. 

Ime am siurre you have imperessed manney more kiddes then moeste.  Goode job,  carrey on.                                  :)

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16 year old neighbor boy was taken away in an EMT early this morning. No word yet on his status. Don't know if it was accidental or deliberate yet.

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My daughter texted me this morning to tell me one of her best friends from high school died. They graduated together and were still close. My daughter is at school 200 miles away and it's difficult not having her home for this. I didn't have a good friend pass until I was well into my 40s, I have no idea what to say to a 20 year old about mortality. It's a damn shame,

I've been looking at pictures of them from graduation. They had the fucking world by the tail. I lost a lot of family when I was young, death doesn't usually hit me like this does. Too damn young 

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6 hours ago, chinabald said:

My daughter texted me this morning to tell me one of her best friends from high school died. They graduated together and were still close. My daughter is at school 200 miles away and it's difficult not having her home for this. I didn't have a good friend pass until I was well into my 40s, I have no idea what to say to a 20 year old about mortality. It's a damn shame,

I've been looking at pictures of them from graduation. They had the fucking world by the tail. I lost a lot of family when I was young, death doesn't usually hit me like this does. Too damn young 

Similar things happened to both of my kids due to car accidents. Left lifelong scars.

Make sure you tell your kids that you love them whenever you leave them - it could be your last chance.

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Roger on the hugs thing.

We nearly lost our daughter a few days ago. She got a coffee from Caribou Coffee and also a croissant, asked the employee there if there was any nuts in it, the employee appeared to check an ingredient list and said "no nuts." Daughter asked her again, same answer. Daughter gets in car, starts driving to her high school job, eats half of the croissant, starts to go into anaphylactic shock. Drives home scared, chest getting tighter breathing getting shallower. By the grade of God I happened to be home doing some journalism, normally I wouldn't be here. Daughter is about ready to collapse, begs for help with the epipen, I hang up on the interview, I'm scared too, the needle on the epipen bends over on the muscles in her leg, friggen' dancer muscles, I watch the epinepherine dribble down the leg of her pants, look at the bent needle, she's about to pass out from lack of air, I run her to the truck, no time to even call an ambulance, I do about 80 mph to the doc-in-the-box emergency room, got her there in 3 minutes. Get her in there, I implore "she needs epinepherine! Anaphylaxis!" the receptionist is clueless, asks us to fill out some paperwork, I say "get her back there or she'll die." She gets into the room and the nurse is equally clueless, starts asking her a bunch of questions. "Get her a doctor, she needs epinepherine right now!" "Sir, you're not letting me do my job." I push harder ...

The doctor gets in there looks at the nurse like he has two heads and gets the IV in her in 30 seconds flat. Turns out he lost a patient 30-some years ago because of similar delays that were happening today. She was better nearly as fast as they had the needle in her.

After she's stable, I go back to the Caribou Coffee, try to dissect what happened. Turns out the employee was new and not properly trained. That fucking Nutella nearly did in my daughter for the third time in about 10 years. For some bizarre reason, a huge percentage of food service workers are incapable of reading allergen warnings, perhaps illiterate. Daughter promises never to consume non-packaged baked goods ever again, even with apparently confident employees.

Anaphylaxis is weird, it seems like contemporary bioscience would have found a cure for that by now. All these kids dying over things like peanuts, walnut shell dust from sandblasting operations, milk, clam juice and other nonsense.

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15 hours ago, mikewof said:

Roger on the hugs thing.

We nearly lost our daughter a few days ago. She got a coffee from Caribou Coffee and also a croissant, asked the employee there if there was any nuts in it, the employee appeared to check an ingredient list and said "no nuts." Daughter asked her again, same answer. Daughter gets in car, starts driving to her high school job, eats half of the croissant, starts to go into anaphylactic shock. Drives home scared, chest getting tighter breathing getting shallower. By the grade of God I happened to be home doing some journalism, normally I wouldn't be here. Daughter is about ready to collapse, begs for help with the epipen, I hang up on the interview, I'm scared too, the needle on the epipen bends over on the muscles in her leg, friggen' dancer muscles, I watch the epinepherine dribble down the leg of her pants, look at the bent needle, she's about to pass out from lack of air, I run her to the truck, no time to even call an ambulance, I do about 80 mph to the doc-in-the-box emergency room, got her there in 3 minutes. Get her in there, I implore "she needs epinepherine! Anaphylaxis!" the receptionist is clueless, asks us to fill out some paperwork, I say "get her back there or she'll die." She gets into the room and the nurse is equally clueless, starts asking her a bunch of questions. "Get her a doctor, she needs epinepherine right now!" "Sir, you're not letting me do my job." I push harder ...

The doctor gets in there looks at the nurse like he has two heads and gets the IV in her in 30 seconds flat. Turns out he lost a patient 30-some years ago because of similar delays that were happening today. She was better nearly as fast as they had the needle in her.

After she's stable, I go back to the Caribou Coffee, try to dissect what happened. Turns out the employee was new and not properly trained. That fucking Nutella nearly did in my daughter for the third time in about 10 years. For some bizarre reason, a huge percentage of food service workers are incapable of reading allergen warnings, perhaps illiterate. Daughter promises never to consume non-packaged baked goods ever again, even with apparently confident employees.

Anaphylaxis is weird, it seems like contemporary bioscience would have found a cure for that by now. All these kids dying over things like peanuts, walnut shell dust from sandblasting operations, milk, clam juice and other nonsense.

Fuck Mike. That scares the shit out of me just to read it. 

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Wow!  Glad you were home and she dodged one with her name on it. I did see a report a couple of days ago that a 3 dose vaccine for peanut allergy is in testing that should be effective even in folks who have displayed acute symptoms. If, so it’s good news. 

I also wonder what’s driving the seemingly significant increase in allergies. Seems a much higher percentage than it was when we were younger. No data to cite so perhaps it’s more of a higher level of reporting than it was 30-40 years ago. 

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I never knew anyone who had more than hay fever until I was an adult. I was well into my 20's before I ever heard of extreme nut allergies and I was never exactly uninformed.

It's definitely way worse than it was 50 years ago.

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My son had peanut allergies that he grew out of although he still will not eat them, all others are fine. I am not trying to be a dick here but there is a school of thought that we are too clean and do not expose our kids to enough "dirt".  These lack of challenges to the immune system results in systems that are overly reactive. I read an article that says essentially our young kids should be licking the kitchen floor once a day.

In any case I am glad your girl is O.K. we had a few close calls with our kid but nothing quite as bad as you describe.     

 

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16 hours ago, mikewof said:

Roger on the hugs thing.

We nearly lost our daughter a few days ago. She got a coffee from Caribou Coffee and also a croissant, asked the employee there if there was any nuts in it, the employee appeared to check an ingredient list and said "no nuts." Daughter asked her again, same answer. Daughter gets in car, starts driving to her high school job, eats half of the croissant, starts to go into anaphylactic shock. Drives home scared, chest getting tighter breathing getting shallower. By the grade of God I happened to be home doing some journalism, normally I wouldn't be here. Daughter is about ready to collapse, begs for help with the epipen, I hang up on the interview, I'm scared too, the needle on the epipen bends over on the muscles in her leg, friggen' dancer muscles, I watch the epinepherine dribble down the leg of her pants, look at the bent needle, she's about to pass out from lack of air, I run her to the truck, no time to even call an ambulance, I do about 80 mph to the doc-in-the-box emergency room, got her there in 3 minutes. Get her in there, I implore "she needs epinepherine! Anaphylaxis!" the receptionist is clueless, asks us to fill out some paperwork, I say "get her back there or she'll die." She gets into the room and the nurse is equally clueless, starts asking her a bunch of questions. "Get her a doctor, she needs epinepherine right now!" "Sir, you're not letting me do my job." I push harder ...

The doctor gets in there looks at the nurse like he has two heads and gets the IV in her in 30 seconds flat. Turns out he lost a patient 30-some years ago because of similar delays that were happening today. She was better nearly as fast as they had the needle in her.

After she's stable, I go back to the Caribou Coffee, try to dissect what happened. Turns out the employee was new and not properly trained. That fucking Nutella nearly did in my daughter for the third time in about 10 years. For some bizarre reason, a huge percentage of food service workers are incapable of reading allergen warnings, perhaps illiterate. Daughter promises never to consume non-packaged baked goods ever again, even with apparently confident employees.

Anaphylaxis is weird, it seems like contemporary bioscience would have found a cure for that by now. All these kids dying over things like peanuts, walnut shell dust from sandblasting operations, milk, clam juice and other nonsense.

Fortunate outcome. Thank goodness. I have a couple suggestions for you. 

  • Bent needles in the epi-pen upon administration is not unheard of. Not at all. I have seen it on multiple occasions. Make sure you have the Epi-Pen and not the epi-pen Jr. as the needle is reportedly more robust on the adult version. 
  • Because there are a variety of things that can go wrong with a epi-pen injection mechanically, especially with a hesitant patient self injecting or an adult a little stressed, have two. This is the most important of my suggestions....have two......
  • Lastly, drawing up and administering epi with a syringe (if you are not trying to do it to yourself.....although you can still do that...a lot of people do for a variety of medications) is really not hard at all. Hell, we've been teaching firemen to do it for a lot of years. :lol: The reason for the epi-pen is the difficulty in teaching the skill to all patients who have varying degrees of willingness to learn or aversion to needles. An intramuscular injection in the anterior thigh is actually a pretty easy thing to master. You might consider asking her doctor about that as an option if you think you might be capable. It's a more reliable method of administration, less things to mechanically go wrong....IMHO. You will probably still need an epi-pen for her self administration though.

Side story......so my dog is allergic to bee stings, almost lost her twice....very allergic so I have epi in a vial with syringes for her. However, I didn't know where to inject a dog or what route of administration to use (SC = subcutaneous, IM = intramuscular, IV = intravenous). So I asked her vet where and whether I should use SC, IM, or IV? The vet smiled at me and showed me where to inject and said "so far as the route goes, it just be sure its ID." I said "ID? I'm not familiar with an ID route." She smiled and said "ID means 'in dog'. The route isn't all that critical!" Gave us both a good laugh.

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1 hour ago, HuronBouy said:

 there is a school of thought that we are too clean and do not expose our kids to enough "dirt".  These lack of challenges to the immune system results in systems that are overly reactive. I read an article that says essentially our young kids should be licking the kitchen floor once a day.

I agree with that - the overuse of antibiotics is mixed in there somewhere too. Our obsession with hypercleanliness does our kids a disservice.

Not that I am for one minute suggesting a return to it but it wasn't that long ago that a "Saturday night bath" was considered a social norm in many civilized places.

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3 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Wow!  Glad you were home and she dodged one with her name on it. I did see a report a couple of days ago that a 3 dose vaccine for peanut allergy is in testing that should be effective even in folks who have displayed acute symptoms. If, so it’s good news. 

I also wonder what’s driving the seemingly significant increase in allergies. Seems a much higher percentage than it was when we were younger. No data to cite so perhaps it’s more of a higher level of reporting than it was 30-40 years ago. 

I've discussed that with a lot of anaphylaxis docs. The central idea seems to be that they now survive thanks to effective diagnosis and care, whereas back when we were kids they just died and nobody imagined that a tree nut, or a peanut, or a shellfish or milk could kill a child that fast. They blamed it on "choking" or "a reaction" or "epilepsy."

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Sorry to hear and let me say, time will heal but you can never forget.

In 76, I was 18 and a close friend at the age of 16 was killed in a head on by a drunk driver.

46 years later, I still remember all the great times we shared. Rex would have been someone special because even at 16 yrs old, he was going on 21. Ahead of his peer group, he was.

life can be tough.

 

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

I've discussed that with a lot of anaphylaxis docs. The central idea seems to be that they now survive thanks to effective diagnosis and care, whereas back when we were kids they just died and nobody imagined that a tree nut, or a peanut, or a shellfish or milk could kill a child that fast. They blamed it on "choking" or "a reaction" or "epilepsy."

First off, your story is beyond frightening, and I am so happy that the ending was a very good one.  I learned a lot reading it.

To your point about what allergists say now, one thing I have noticed after living in Europe (& having many European friends), is that deadly allergies over there appear much less common than in the US. I’ve never seen a nut-free building in Europe.  And, regardless of whether the country is Sweden, Britain, Italy, or Germany, kids there are much less sheltered from dirt and potential ‘harms’ than they are here.  Despite all this, Europeans do not have higher child mortality - indeed, it’s lower than in the US today.  This all leads me to believe that the dirt and exposure hypothesis is real, and that those who say that is was just as frequent in the past, but we accepted it more, are probably speaking more from a position of mild self-justification or defense than actual understanding.  I might ask the doctors about the (perceived) disparity with Europe today, and I would be interested to hear their responses. I ask this as a parent with a growing family, and fortunately no allergies so far, beyond a personal bad reaction to certain shellfish.

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2 hours ago, jewingiv said:

First off, your story is beyond frightening, and I am so happy that the ending was a very good one.  I learned a lot reading it.

To your point about what allergists say now, one thing I have noticed after living in Europe (& having many European friends), is that deadly allergies over there appear much less common than in the US. I’ve never seen a nut-free building in Europe.  And, regardless of whether the country is Sweden, Britain, Italy, or Germany, kids there are much less sheltered from dirt and potential ‘harms’ than they are here.  Despite all this, Europeans do not have higher child mortality - indeed, it’s lower than in the US today.  This all leads me to believe that the dirt and exposure hypothesis is real, and that those who say that is was just as frequent in the past, but we accepted it more, are probably speaking more from a position of mild self-justification or defense than actual understanding.  I might ask the doctors about the (perceived) disparity with Europe today, and I would be interested to hear their responses. I ask this as a parent with a growing family, and fortunately no allergies so far, beyond a personal bad reaction to certain shellfish.

You might be right on target, I've no idea, I'm a believer in the dangers of these effects, but doctors do tend to brush off what they can't prove, I think.

Our older daughter (the one with the anaphylaxis) spent her few years playing amidst the airborne debris of the World Trade Center pit, we lived right next to it. Maybe the asbestos/mercury or other contaminants had an effect? NYC isn't all that clean bacterially, so I'm pretty sure that her grubby little paws all over that city gave her a lot of exposure to allergens. Maybe food sensitization from GMOs? Again, I've no idea. (I hate GMOs.)

But from what I've read, the prevalence of food allergens seems to follow the relative wealth and healthcare in a country, it seems that the USA isn't the highest, but that study isn't conclusive ...

40413_2013_18_Fig2_HTML.jpg

https://waojournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1939-4551-6-21

It seems we just don't really understand that much about it yet, I'm as in the dark as anyone.

I'm thankful that at least she has some tolerance. A lady with whom I worked has twin boys with a milk anaphylaxis, they wear epipens on their legs, all the time, anaphylactic shock can (and has) come from eating a food that was milk-free, but was contaminated in something less than 1 PPM by a line in a the factory that once contained casein ... If he didn't have his epipen he probably wouldn't have made it ... this for a contaminant that I would have had a hard time finding with a research-grade mass spec.

I read through this site before having her promise to not eat nonpackaged baked goods, there were so many deaths from that shit, takeout meals, sandblasting with walnut shield shells, family-made cookies, a girl who kissed her boyfriend who had earlier eaten a peanut butter sandwich, https://nonutsmomsgroup.weebly.com/blog/remembering-those-we-have-lost-to-food-allergies

It still seems rare, but each time it happens to our daughter, it seems to happen a little more vviolentl, the effect seems bigger each time, hopefully there won't be a next time.

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We just got back from visiting family in Argentina. The subject of nut allergies came up during a dinner discussion because my daughter's close friend in the US is allergic to tree nuts. The family told us that nut allergies are basically unheard of down there. I don't think it's due to mis-diagnosis since the nature and many causes of anaphylaxis have been well understood in medicine since the early 1900's.

Interestingly, the situation is different with (real or imagined) gluten sensitivity, which is a thing down there just as it is in North America and Europe. One theory is that due to the large European immigrant community, Argentina's rates mirror those of Europe. Another theory is that it's just a fad, encouraged by Big Food to expand their markets now that they've invested in gluten-free products for North America and Europe. My preferred theory is that by claiming a gluten sensitivity and getting rid of bread from your diet, you leave more room for meat.

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On 4/14/2018 at 11:43 AM, IStream said:

We just got back from visiting family in Argentina. The subject of nut allergies came up during a dinner discussion because my daughter's close friend in the US is allergic to tree nuts. The family told us that nut allergies are basically unheard of down there. I don't think it's due to mis-diagnosis since the nature and many causes of anaphylaxis have been well understood in medicine since the early 1900's.

Interestingly, the situation is different with (real or imagined) gluten sensitivity, which is a thing down there just as it is in North America and Europe. One theory is that due to the large European immigrant community, Argentina's rates mirror those of Europe. Another theory is that it's just a fad, encouraged by Big Food to expand their markets now that they've invested in gluten-free products for North America and Europe. My preferred theory is that by claiming a gluten sensitivity and getting rid of bread from your diet, you leave more room for meat.

Many people who swear off gluten feel better. Mainly because they wind up eating less junk food. Can't eat McDonalds if you are gluten free. 

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On 4/13/2018 at 4:50 AM, chinabald said:

My daughter texted me this morning to tell me one of her best friends from high school died. They graduated together and were still close. My daughter is at school 200 miles away and it's difficult not having her home for this. I didn't have a good friend pass until I was well into my 40s, I have no idea what to say to a 20 year old about mortality. It's a damn shame,

I've been looking at pictures of them from graduation. They had the fucking world by the tail. I lost a lot of family when I was young, death doesn't usually hit me like this does. Too damn young 

Just saw this mate - Hope your daughter is doing ok.

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