• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Sign in to follow this  
Mark K

UFOs: Jeff, IB, need mil pilot-speak translation

Recommended Posts

8 minutes ago, Point Break said:

I likely would have worded it a little less......bleak............but this is a pretty succinct assessment and explanation. WFD Mikey. 

Ime am blammeng Mickeys bleakeness on the curviossitey hese dricken, I wille ovoide it alle costes.  My rellatives halve alswaye beene verrey possitieve and encourageng, so I dointe undestande that parte.  The limittes wille be pushte backe throuh minnore/majore advainces, and accidentes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mikewof said:

...    ...    ...

At the core of all of this is Relativity. It's a gorgeous set of laws (I'm not going to call it a theory anymore), But at its core, it's incredibly depressing, because it tells us that we're fucking stuck here. ...    ...    ... It's almost like some kind of cruel cosmic joke, "here, you useless humans, look at what is out there, but you can never go there, you can't touch it, you can't see for yourself, because the speed of light is the speed limit of the Universe...    ...     ...     ... 

This speed limit seems like it can't be. We have had speed limits that we've smashed before, like 100 mph, the speed of a cheetah, the speed sound, escape velocity. We keep smashing these speed limits because it's in our nature to do that. But Relativity tells us "don't even try, you'll fail." Unless those laws don't apply so well on our time-scale and length scales. In that case, a better model, one that might describe Nature better, will hopefully emerge someday, and then we'll find a way to get off this gorgeous, forsaken rock.

??

Beautiful if slightly bleak rant, dude. I suggest switching to Drambuie or Chambord if the Courvoisier brings you down.

To me, relativity says no such thing. Relativity is just a way of trying to explain more precisely, and thus predict, things we have observed that don't make sense the way we thought of them before. It's like if you saw a giant clown peeking at you from behind a cloud, and said to yoursef "WTF? That can't be" so you take great thought and care, build a giant-clown-detector and lo! yes there is in fact a giant clown watching from up there. But now you can explain and predict where the giant clown footprints came from, and whatever new possibilities this open up.

The Universe has some weird shit up it's sleeve. It plays some very cruel tricks on us.......... the one I hate is the way our lives do not match up with dogs' lives....... but so far, it hasn't said "Ha Ha Ha you poor schmucks are stuck on that rock forever & ever." We haven't even tried real hard, yet.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Point Break said:

I get it. Its like debating whether God exists with believers. They simply "believe". They cannot show me why, they simply believe. Your assertions that its most certainly "possible" is exactly the same. You simply believe it. I'm okay with that. "The truth is out there". Believe on. There's room for that too.

 

1 hour ago, Snaggletooth said:

Ist a key staite!

It is THE Keystone state!  The cradle of liberty (and the Liberty Bell), birthplace of the Constitution and all of that shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

 

It is THE Keystone state!  The cradle of liberty (and the Liberty Bell), birthplace of the Constitution and all of that shit.

Thick of thirteene collonies as a arche, Penn ist t he keystoine!                                   :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Point Break said:
13 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

This tells me that, like everyone else, you don't know what is and is not possible.

And when you're in that state, things are only impossible until they are not.

I get it. Its like debating whether God exists with believers. They simply "believe". They cannot show me why, they simply believe. Your assertions that its most certainly "possible" is exactly the same. You simply believe it. I'm okay with that. "The truth is out there". Believe on. There's room for that too.

That's pretty much how I react to stuff like this:

On 12/27/2017 at 4:45 PM, Point Break said:

Yep, I think those who suppose that sort of space travel is possible really have not investigated the physics of it

How to investigate that which we don't yet know?

I have the same discussion with atheists, btw. You can't know there isn't a God and more than someone can know there is. It's faith based, as is your trust that we know enough to know what is and isn't possible in the universe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

That's pretty much how I react to stuff like this:

How to investigate that which we don't yet know?

I have the same discussion with atheists, btw. You can't know there isn't a God and more than someone can know there is. It's faith based, as is your trust that we know enough to know what is and isn't possible in the universe.

We will learn a lot more about the universe than we ever will about god, especially since there isn't one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

That's pretty much how I react to stuff like this:

How to investigate that which we don't yet know?

I have the same discussion with atheists, btw. You can't know there isn't a God and more than someone can know there is. It's faith based, as is your trust that we know enough to know what is and isn't possible in the universe.

Yes Tom, however......unlike the question of God..........there is plenty of strong scientific opinion and conjecture based on the laws of physics that interstellar travel is at best unlikely, or at worst impossible. On the side of its certainly likely or possible is........lay opinion based on "faith". But like I said, the faithful shall lean on faith..for which there is no debate. I'm okay with that, its just that debating faith is silly and pointless. So keeping looking skyward and I'll continue to hold onto science as the candle in the dark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Yes Tom, however......unlike the question of God..........there is plenty of strong scientific opinion and conjecture based on the laws of physics that interstellar travel is at best unlikely, or at worst impossible. On the side of its certainly likely or possible is........lay opinion based on "faith". But like I said, the faithful shall lean on faith..for which there is no debate. I'm okay with that, its just that debating faith is silly and pointless. So keeping looking skyward and I'll continue to hold onto science as the candle in the dark.

Juries out on God (or any Diety) IMHO

As for interstellar travel, it is very possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky

It's very unlikely though, as even the slow way we could definitely achieve is too expensive with no payoff (other than spreading mankind further than our little rock).

It's possible that we will eventually find a quick cheap way to travel interstellar distances, but there is no way to guess what form it might take or when. Speculating about it is pretty much meaningless, although from my limited understanding, string theory seems to offer a possibility of both time travel and instantaneous transportation.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:
53 minutes ago, Point Break said:

 

Juries out on God (or any Diety) IMHO

How dare you say that when ...

"In God We Trust" is the official motto of the United States. It was adopted as the nation's motto in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, which was adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.[1][2]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Juries out on God (or any Diety) IMHO

As for interstellar travel, it is very possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky

It's very unlikely though, as even the slow way we could definitely achieve is too expensive with no payoff (other than spreading mankind further than our little rock).

It's possible that we will eventually find a quick cheap way to travel interstellar distances, but there is no way to guess what form it might take or when. Speculating about it is pretty much meaningless, although from my limited understanding, string theory seems to offer a possibility of both time travel and instantaneous transportation.

-DSK

Enjoyed a lot of Robert Heinlein's work in my youth, but never came across that one, will look for it..... thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Enjoyed a lot of Robert Heinlein's work in my youth, but never came across that one, will look for it..... thanks!

String theory didn't exist in Heinlein's day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Juries out on God (or any Diety) IMHO

As for interstellar travel, it is very possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky

It's very unlikely though, as even the slow way we could definitely achieve is too expensive with no payoff (other than spreading mankind further than our little rock).

It's possible that we will eventually find a quick cheap way to travel interstellar distances, but there is no way to guess what form it might take or when. Speculating about it is pretty much meaningless, although from my limited understanding, string theory seems to offer a possibility of both time travel and instantaneous transportation.

-DSK

Except the nearest star system is @ 4+ light years away. Sub light speed travel, say with current technology, estimates @ 37,000 earth solar years per light year. That’s an awful long time on a generational voyage........

Buzzard Ram jet using solar hydrogen? Makes a nice known space story but.........

no.........I don’t think so.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Except the nearest star system is @ 4+ light years away. Sub light speed travel, say with current technology, estimates @ 37,000 earth solar years per light year. That’s an awful long time on a generational voyage........

Buzzard Ram jet using solar hydrogen? Makes a nice known space story but.........

no.........I don’t think so.......

You aren't thinking outside the box PB.  Remember, we don't need to exceed the speed of light, only overcome it.  In theory, that may well be possible.  I think some day they will crack that nut but that opens up a host of other challenges as well.  Something akin to "folding space" like they did on Frank Herbert's Dune series.  A great read.  One of the few science fiction authors I truly enjoy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

You aren't thinking outside the box PB.  Remember, we don't need to exceed the speed of light, only overcome it.  In theory, that may well be possible.  I think some day they will crack that nut but that opens up a host of other challenges as well.  Something akin to "folding space" like they did on Frank Herbert's Dune series.  A great read.  One of the few science fiction authors I truly enjoy.

I read a fair amount of science FICTION as well. BTW- I just checked out the audible version of Dune for a 2nd “reading”. Looking forward to starting it tomorrow on my morning walk with the dog. I’ll let you know. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Point Break said:

I read a fair amount of science FICTION as well. BTW- I just checked out the audible version of Dune for a 2nd “reading”. Looking forward to starting it tomorrow on my morning walk with the dog. I’ll let you know. ;)

Be careful you don't get hooked, there are are least 10 books in the series now.  In my opinion the original trilogy, Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune were the best but the others are still quite good including the ones written by his son and another author after Herbert's death.  I can't tell the difference between the new authors work and Herbert's.

Paul Muad' Dib lives!  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

Be careful you don't get hooked, there are are least 10 books in the series now.  In my opinion the original trilogy, Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune were the best but the others are still quite good including the ones written by his son and another author after Herbert's death.  I can't tell the difference between the new authors work and Herbert's.

Paul Muad' Dib lives!  :lol:

I can’t afford that.......Robert Jordan’s “Wheel of Time” series almost cured me of fantasy/fiction. :lol:

I read the Dune trilogy but I’ve firmly stopped there......

Read an awlful lot of Nivens stuff too. It was actually the various sci-fi books I read that stimulated me to explore the actual science of those stories. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Point Break said:

I can’t afford that.......Robert Jordan’s “Wheel of Time” series almost cured me of fantasy/fiction. :lol:

I read the Dune trilogy but I’ve firmly stopped there......

Read an awlful lot of Nivens stuff too. It was actually the various sci-fi books I read that stimulated me to explore the actual science of those stories. 

"For... he eeezz the Kwisatz Haderach!"

 Dune-8.jpg

 

 The most unintentionally funny movie, ever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Point Break said:

Yes Tom, however......unlike the question of God..........there is plenty of strong scientific opinion and conjecture based on the laws of physics that interstellar travel is at best unlikely, or at worst impossible. On the side of its certainly likely or possible is........lay opinion based on "faith". But like I said, the faithful shall lean on faith..for which there is no debate. I'm okay with that, its just that debating faith is silly and pointless. So keeping looking skyward and I'll continue to hold onto science as the candle in the dark.

Conjecture based on incomplete knowledge is hardly distinguishable from faith to me. Our laws of physics break down at black holes. Yet they're everywhere and supermassive ones are at the center of galaxies. We understand our galaxy, just not the really big thing it's spinning around? No. We don't understand.

What's wrong with not knowing? I don't know if there's a God and I don't know if we can visit distant galaxies. Yes, I said galaxies. I know how far away stars are and that if they are unreachable, distant galaxies are even more so. A LOT more so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mark K said:

"For... he eeezz the Kwisatz Haderach!"

 Dune-8.jpg

 

 The most unintentionally funny movie, ever. 

That movie sucked. It had one or two good moments but for the most part it gave the excellent novels a bad name.  If I ever meet David Lynch, I am going to give him hell for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Point Break said:

Read an awlful lot of Nivens stuff too. It was actually the various sci-fi books I read that stimulated me to explore the actual science of those stories. 

I only read one of Niven's books "Lucifer's Hammer".  I really liked it, mainly for the post comet devastation and how humanity coped and rebuilt.  The Scifi was OK.  What other books of his would you recommend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, soak_ed said:
6 hours ago, Mark K said:


"For... he eeezz the Kwisatz Haderach!"

 Dune-8.jpg

 

 The most unintentionally funny movie, ever. 

That movie sucked. It had one or two good moments but for the most part it gave the excellent novels a bad name.  If I ever meet David Lynch, I am going to give him hell for it.

I would go so far as to say the Dune movies were THE WORST screenplay adaptations of a book or books ever in history.  I thought the dune series was good (not great, but good) and I wanted to kill myself about halfway through the movie.  Of course, It might have had something to do with the face that my date hated it even worse than I did and as a result I was definitely NOT getting laid that night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I would go so far as to say the Dune movies were THE WORST screenplay adaptations of a book or books ever in history.  I thought the dune series was good (not great, but good) and I wanted to kill myself about halfway through the movie.  Of course, It might have had something to do with the face that my date hated it even worse than I did and as a result I was definitely NOT getting laid that night.

I think the Dune books are great. I am not a big fan of science fiction. To me a lot of it is just the contemporary world set at some point in the future and all that is different is places and people have funny names.

With Dune Herbert created an entire system full different planets, different races, cultures, the whole shebang. And then he kept building the back story, the history, etc.  He put so much detail into the universe of Dune from the big things, down to little details such as recognizing a Fremen outside of the desert because of the indentation on the side of his nose from the constant presence of the water tube from a stillsuit.  Just an amazing creation with compelling story lines and a fantastic world full of giant sandworms, space travel, spice, and plenty of villains and heroes. 

Dune is one of the few works of science fiction that sucked me in and I was willing to suspend my disbelief because it was so well done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

never forget absence of proof is not proof of absence!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I would go so far as to say the Dune movies were THE WORST screenplay adaptations of a book or books ever in history.  I thought the dune series was good (not great, but good) and I wanted to kill myself about halfway through the movie.  Of course, It might have had something to do with the face that my date hated it even worse than I did and as a result I was definitely NOT getting laid that night.

+1

The first DUNE book was pretty good, the sequels got increasingly ridiculous. The movie was just over-the-top kitsch, not in a good way...... I got the impression that the writer(s)/director(s)/producer(s)/etc etc hated science fiction and were making fun of the whole concept. Sting made a perfect bad guy, in that context.

Niven/Pournelle: Footfall is just like Lucifer's Hammer only with elephant-shaped alien invaders. But the Integral Trees and Smoke Ring are brilliant, I envy you for having not read them, now you get to discover the treasure of a Ringworld only without the RIng.

But bringing science fiction, even good science fiction, into this discussion is doing a disservice IMHO.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

+1

The first DUNE book was pretty good, the sequels got increasingly ridiculous. The movie was just over-the-top kitsch, not in a good way...... I got the impression that the writer(s)/director(s)/producer(s)/etc etc hated science fiction and were making fun of the whole concept. Sting made a perfect bad guy, in that context.

Niven/Pournelle: Footfall is just like Lucifer's Hammer only with elephant-shaped alien invaders. But the Integral Trees and Smoke Ring are brilliant, I envy you for having not read them, now you get to discover the treasure of a Ringworld only without the RIng.

But bringing science fiction, even good science fiction, into this discussion is doing a disservice IMHO.

-DSK

Yes, Niven as a writer wandered into several "sub-genre" of science fiction. While Lucifers Hammer is a post apocalyptic scenario many of his works are more.....expansive in creating "alternate" worlds. Not fantasy but very detailed plots surrounding human and various alien characters. I enjoyed that genre - at least in binges - then I would tire of it and need to leave science fiction alone for a awhile. With that caveat, I enjoyed the 4 book Ringworld series immensely. It is sorta post apocalyptic without the apocalypse. Lots of action though. You might enjoy it. Warning though...going straight to ring world is a little out of the recommended reading order but thats the way I did it and didn't feel the other series that were really prequels were damaged by reading the Ringworld Series first. I think that series is some of his very best work.

Yes..........my literary tastes are as broad (some might say confused) as my musical interests. 

BTW - I have recommended it elsewhere, but having recently listened to a book I had previously read was immensely enjoyable. "The Power of Myth" by Joesph Campbell. The audible book is actually the recordings of a series of lengthy interviews by Bill Moyer with Campbell himself just before his death. It is actually the foundation of the book written later. Frigging loved it. A insightful and entertaining examination of the human need for the various myths some cling to as "fact", the origins of "faith" and an apt comparison of the various myths throughout time and across cultures. Remarkable work. In retrospect, I should have skipped the written book and gone straight to the recordings. Warning.....he was an unapologetic atheist but not a mean one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

??

Beautiful if slightly bleak rant, dude. I suggest switching to Drambuie or Chambord if the Courvoisier brings you down.

To me, relativity says no such thing. Relativity is just a way of trying to explain more precisely, and thus predict, things we have observed that don't make sense the way we thought of them before. It's like if you saw a giant clown peeking at you from behind a cloud, and said to yoursef "WTF? That can't be" so you take great thought and care, build a giant-clown-detector and lo! yes there is in fact a giant clown watching from up there. But now you can explain and predict where the giant clown footprints came from, and whatever new possibilities this open up.

The Universe has some weird shit up it's sleeve. It plays some very cruel tricks on us.......... the one I hate is the way our lives do not match up with dogs' lives....... but so far, it hasn't said "Ha Ha Ha you poor schmucks are stuck on that rock forever & ever." We haven't even tried real hard, yet.

-DSK

The Lorentz transforms of Special Relativity essentially does say that though. Any kind of long-distance travel is impossible by the rules of Special Relativity, unless we're going to rely on science fiction to get us there.

But in reality? What government or group of taxpayers is going to put money into interstellar travel if we would have no idea if it even worked, let alone see a monetary return, for 100 years after we're dead and gone? Even a quick trip close to the speed of light to the nearest star wouldn't let us even know what happened until after we were dead. We would never put money into doing that. And even if money isn't an issue, which is science fiction, there are only a handful of stars that human could travel in a functional lifetime if the top speed is 3x10^8 m/s. Statistically, most of those would just be stars surrounded by lifeless rocks.

It's a bleak, miserable theory, the contemporary equivalent to the Church convincing everyone that the Earth was flat. And I just can't see how it can be true either, it just makes no sense to me. Why would there be a speed limit in the Universe? At least I'm optimistic enough to believe that it might be wrong, without needing to resort to science fiction to find a way out. The current understanding of light seems to suggest that above-ground-state photons have no interaction with the below-ground-state photons, and I think that's the fundamental flaw with it all, it's pushed us to develop things like string theory. But if energy above the ground state uses the below-ground state photons as their transmission medium, then physics has a chance to be explained without science fiction anymore. Yeah, I don't think that Special Relativity is right, but I know that the Second and Third Laws of Thermodynamics are right, and I am very sure that the Uncertainty Principle is correct, also Schroedinger's equation. If we apply those to the unphysical properties of the energy below h-bar omega, then I think we can find a relatively simple pathway to send little pea-sized boats to stars considerably faster than the speed of light and then bring them back. We already have interacted with the ground state without violating HUP, every car has an airbag sensor made with a bunch of tiny, nanoscale cantilevers that do exactly that. And we see this kind of thing every time we have to push our boats away from a bulkhead, the wave-energy imbalance is often what sticks the boat to the bulkhead.

 

I agree about lifespans of dogs and cats, it seems that they live just long enough to carry us from one segment of our lives to the next. Maybe it's for the best, life would go too fast if they lived longer than they do, it's the misery of losing your best friend that gives you some kind of marker in time. Fuckin' sucks though, I'm going to need to find a 24-hour bar to handle life when my ol' coonhound finally goes to doggie heaven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, soak_ed said:

Be careful you don't get hooked, there are are least 10 books in the series now.  In my opinion the original trilogy, Dune, Dune Messiah and Children of Dune were the best but the others are still quite good including the ones written by his son and another author after Herbert's death.  I can't tell the difference between the new authors work and Herbert's.

Paul Muad' Dib lives!  :lol:

Whoa !

Somebody's been hitting the Spice pretty hard lately. 

String Theory space travel would require a Brazilian Knot Shitbox 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mikewof said:

I agree about lifespans of dogs and cats, it seems that they live just long enough to carry us from one segment of our lives to the next. Maybe it's for the best, life would go too fast if they lived longer than they do, it's the misery of losing your best friend that gives you some kind of marker in time. Fuckin' sucks though, I'm going to need to find a 24-hour bar to handle life when my ol' coonhound finally goes to doggie heaven.

I have lost 5 (all Boxers) now over my life. Had to put down all but one. It is nearly the most awful thing one can experience.....then you see that cute little face of some puppy and you're hooked again.........I'm on #6 now. Pretty sure she is the last.

Short story in that vein. 2 dogs ago I had one that I had to put down from brain cancer. She slowly got weirder and weirder till one day she growled at me so I knew it was time. Since she was my best buddy the pain was unimaginable and I swore never again. So about 2 weeks after she was put down, its raining terrible at the house. I hear a noise at the front door and open it there sits...wet and shivering....about a 6 month old Boxer puppy the spitting image of my just lost dog. I took her in, bathed, warmed and fed her. She snuggled into my old dogs bed happily and went to sleep. Took her to the vet...no chip. Put up signs in neighborhood. No response. She was with me the next 13 years. I found out a couple years later that a "kennel" went out of business nearby and the owner had a couple unclaimed dogs. Drove into my neighborhood and kicked them out the door in a rainstorm. She wound up sitting on my porch. Do you believe in canine reincarnation or kismet or?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway back to the general topic at hand......this excerpt from Bryson’s book always cracks me up......

Quote

Space, let me repeat, is enormous. The average distance between stars out there is 20 million million miles. Even at speeds approaching those of light, these are fantastically challenging distances for any traveling individual. Of course, it is possible that alien beings travel billions of miles to amuse themselves by planting crop circles in Wiltshire or frightening the daylights out of some poor guy in a pickup truck on a lonely road in Arizona (they must have teenagers, after all), but it does seem unlikely.

Still, statistically the probability that there are other thinking beings out there is good. Nobody knows how many stars there are in the Milky Way—estimates range from 100 billion or so to perhaps 400 billion—and the Milky Way is just one of 140 billion or so other galaxies, many of them even larger than ours. In the 1960s, a professor at Cornell named Frank Drake, excited by such whopping numbers, worked out a famous equation designed to calculate the chances of advanced life in the cosmos based on a series of diminishing probabilities.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I would go so far as to say the Dune movies were THE WORST screenplay adaptations of a book or books ever in history.  I thought the dune series was good (not great, but good) and I wanted to kill myself about halfway through the movie.  Of course, It might have had something to do with the face that my date hated it even worse than I did and as a result I was definitely NOT getting laid that night.

Leo DiCaprio couldn't have gotten any after that POS. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I only read one of Niven's books "Lucifer's Hammer".  I really liked it, mainly for the post comet devastation and how humanity coped and rebuilt.  The Scifi was OK.  What other books of his would you recommend?

Niven's Mote In The Eye is considered a classic. Lots of awards. I thought it pretty cool when I did...but that was like 8th grade or so so I can't swear I would like it now. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God's_Eye 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

I thouht he lickes blondes, juste sayeng                     :)

 

(juste sawe the 'mabey' )

Snags, I like women.  :D

The rest is just details.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Snaggletooth said:

Me to, con gustoe!                                   :)

I might have a foot fetish, tell me more about this con gustoe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, soak_ed said:

I might have a foot fetish, tell me more about this con gustoe.

Walk away from that one Ed; Gus is a nice guy and all, but...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Black Sox said:

Walk away from that one Ed; Gus is a nice guy and all, but...

Thanks Black, I didn't consider that!  Whew, close call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/24/2017 at 3:43 AM, Raz'r said:

The alien invasion will be digital, if any of them care enough to bother.

Well, shoot! My proctologist is an extraterrestrial....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Point Break said:

I have lost 5 (all Boxers) now over my life. Had to put down all but one. It is nearly the most awful thing one can experience.....then you see that cute little face of some puppy and you're hooked again.........I'm on #6 now. Pretty sure she is the last.

Short story in that vein. 2 dogs ago I had one that I had to put down from brain cancer. She slowly got weirder and weirder till one day she growled at me so I knew it was time. Since she was my best buddy the pain was unimaginable and I swore never again. So about 2 weeks after she was put down, its raining terrible at the house. I hear a noise at the front door and open it there sits...wet and shivering....about a 6 month old Boxer puppy the spitting image of my just lost dog. I took her in, bathed, warmed and fed her. She snuggled into my old dogs bed happily and went to sleep. Took her to the vet...no chip. Put up signs in neighborhood. No response. She was with me the next 13 years. I found out a couple years later that a "kennel" went out of business nearby and the owner had a couple unclaimed dogs. Drove into my neighborhood and kicked them out the door in a rainstorm. She wound up sitting on my porch. Do you believe in canine reincarnation or kismet or?

Makes you believe something was in play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Makes you believe something was in play. 

Yes....I have often wondered. Based on recent developments....I pray that is the case.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Took our 17 yo cat to be put to sleep on Labor Day.  They took him away to give him the needle.  Vet came back and said, "I am so sorry, but he became upset, and his heart stopped before we could do it".   I thanked him, and also Tigger, as he had saved me about 80 bucks, by flatlining, before they could do their thing.  We are about to adopt one or two adult cats, as we miss having one around.  No kittens though, and we need to find one that sheds less.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

Took our 17 yo cat to be put to sleep on Labor Day.  They took him away to give him the needle.  Vet came back and said, "I am so sorry, but he became upset, and his heart stopped before we could do it".   I thanked him, and also Tigger, as he had saved me about 80 bucks, by flatlining, before they could do their thing.  We are about to adopt one or two adult cats, as we miss having one around.  No kittens though, and we need to find one that sheds less.....

If you are a “regular” with shots and check ups, my vet does not charge for that final service. We then bring them home and they get buried in a favorite spot in the woods. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

If you are a “regular” with shots and check ups, my vet does not charge for that final service. We then bring them home and they get buried in a favorite spot in the woods. 

Good to know, but not an option then, as there were only 3 vet clinics open on Labor Day in CT.  Piper in Middletown was closest. They charged only for cremation and spreading his ashes in their lovely gardens.  I applied online to adopt a cat from Forgotten Felines, and we were denied, which totally blew us away!!  Turns out two other friends who are also kind, loving, caring cat owners were likewise denied!  So, we will go to the Valley Shore Animal Welfare League instead, with letters from our Vet, Landlady, and friends who take care of our cat, when we are away, same as we do for them when they spend summer weekends on their boat.  Hopefully a low-shedding mature cat or two will "rescue" us!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't remember which Anarchist wrote it, but he wrote that he regretted not staying with his dog in the last moments in the vet's office. 

I remember his words were "I owed her (or him) that much."

That post was memorable ... If our dog can't die at home and needs to be put down, I want to stay with her when it happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Point Break said:

Yes....I have often wondered. Based on recent developments....I pray that is the case.

 

You can't always get what you want, but sometimes you get just what you need.  Some sage philosopher once said that, Mick something or another...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because of the Big Bang, I would deduce that there are other planets out there that are orbiting around a sun like ours, which would be capable of harboring life, and just like us, the time that life has had to flourish is exactly the same. So in light of this I ask, how come life on other planets could be seen by us to be more advanced than life on Earth that you would believe that they are capable of traveling to earth through space? Are humans less advanced than other life, even when the time frame for advancement has been exactly the same?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, scottyMO said:

Because of the Big Bang, I would deduce that there are other planets out there that are orbiting around a sun like ours, which would be capable of harboring life, and just like us, the time that life has had to flourish is exactly the same. So in light of this I ask, how come life on other planets could be seen by us to be more advanced than life on Earth that you would believe that they are capable of traveling to earth through space? Are humans less advanced than other life, even when the time frame for advancement has been exactly the same?

More or less exactly.

There are stars quite a bit older than ours, so could have planets a few hundred million years older. We've been around for tens of thousands. So give or take a few hundred million could mean quite a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, scottyMO said:

Because of the Big Bang, I would deduce that there are other planets out there that are orbiting around a sun like ours, which would be capable of harboring life, and just like us, the time that life has had to flourish is exactly the same. So in light of this I ask, how come life on other planets could be seen by us to be more advanced than life on Earth that you would believe that they are capable of traveling to earth through space? Are humans less advanced than other life, even when the time frame for advancement has been exactly the same?

There must be many levels of civilizations depending on when the system coalesced from the Big Bonk. If that is true, and interstellar travel is possible, why are there no indications of anyone else? They can't all be smarter than us. I'm not sure Dick Van Dyke has reached anywhere that matters in the ever-expanding media bubble around us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

More or less exactly.

There are stars quite a bit older than ours, so could have planets a few hundred million years older. We've been around for tens of thousands. So give or take a few hundred million could mean quite a bit.

So in layman’s terms, the stars that are a few million years older than ours started burning sooner than our sun did?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

There must be many levels of civilizations depending on when the system coalesced from the Big Bonk. If that is true, and interstellar travel is possible, why are there no indications of anyone else? They can't all be smarter than us. I'm not sure Dick Van Dyke has reached anywhere that matters in the ever-expanding media bubble around us.

I’m trying to put together a response but am finding it difficult. You’re assuming that there must be many levels of civilization and that’s cool. I just think that the universe has many options to spawn life, based on the potential of the big bang. I don’t believe that life on other planets is very different from life on Earth. I also don’t believe that our spark is millions of years younger than other sparks, from the same explosion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The growth of technology and civilization is highly nonlinear. Even assuming planets that could bear life for exactly the same period as ours there could be wildly different rates of progress. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old and has been able to sustain our flavor of carbon-based life for 4 billion of those years. If the first amino acids came from extraterrestrial sources, there could be billions of years of difference between when they started vs us, depending on when their meteors hit.

Even if you confine yourself to the last 500 million years or so that there've been complex organisms, Earth has had five mass extinctions (that we know of). What if some or all of those hadn't happened? That's a lot of re-boots that you don't have to work through. 

Let's say even the extinction dynamics are the same. What if they're just smarter? Over the course of the 7500 generations or so of human existence, even a modest 0.1% increase in intelligence would have a huge cumulative effect on our civilization's advancement. In compound interest terms, 1.001^7500 = 1800.

Let's say they're no smarter at all but they have a more equitable civilization and instead of disenfranchising more than half their population due to gender, class, caste, or whatever they allow the best and the brightest to thrive regardless of their origin. How many additional Einsteins is that over the course of their existence?

Okay, forget that. Let's say they just got a ~1000 year head start (a 1 part in 4 million rounding error in the age of our planet) and everything else was the same. We got our understanding of modern physics in the 1920's. We got the transistor in the 1960's. We got the internet in the 1990's. We're getting functional AI in the next 10 years. Think of how fast things have progressed in just the last 100 years. What if all that started in 920AD instead of 1920AD. Where would we be now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, IStream said:

The growth of technology and civilization is highly nonlinear. Even assuming planets that could bear life for exactly the same period as ours there could be wildly different rates of progress. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old and has been able to sustain our flavor of carbon-based life for 4 billion of those years. If the first amino acids came from extraterrestrial sources, there could be billions of years of difference between when they started vs us, depending on when their meteors hit.

Even if you confine yourself to the last 500 million years or so that there've been complex organisms, Earth has had five mass extinctions (that we know of). What if some or all of those hadn't happened? That's a lot of re-boots that you don't have to work through. 

Let's say even the extinction dynamics are the same. What if they're just smarter? Over the course of the 7500 generations or so of human existence, even a modest 0.1% increase in intelligence would have a huge cumulative effect on our civilization's advancement. In compound interest terms, 1.001^7500 = 1800.

Let's say they're no smarter at all but they have a more equitable civilization and instead of disenfranchising more than half their population due to gender, class, caste, or whatever they allow the best and the brightest to thrive regardless of their origin. How many additional Einsteins is that over the course of their existence?

Okay, forget that. Let's say they just got a ~1000 year head start (a 1 part in 4 million rounding error in the age of our planet) and everything else was the same. We got our understanding of modern physics in the 1920's. We got the transistor in the 1960's. We got the internet in the 1990's. We're getting functional AI in the next 10 years. Think of how fast things have progressed in just the last 100 years. What if all that started in 920AD instead of 1920AD. Where would we be now?

Cleveland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread has it all: alien civilizations, physics, metaphysics, cosmology, philosophy, geology, history, literature and the inexplicable love we have for our dogs.  Good job guys. 

On the dog front, tomorrow is the 13th anniversary of the day we adopted Gracie, our dalmation mutt. She's developed a lot of tumors this year and the pathology wasn't very promising. We had a large one removed in late October and the vet said it would probably be at most another three or four months and it will be time. She still seems happy and to feel OK most of the time, but we are seeing the tumor we had removed starting to come back. It's just a matter of time now. Maybe another month or so. The vet says you'll know when she stops being Gracie. I'm heartbroken by the decision that will inevitably soon come. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, scottyMO said:

Because of the Big Bang, I would deduce that there are other planets out there that are orbiting around a sun like ours, which would be capable of harboring life, and just like us, the time that life has had to flourish is exactly the same. So in light of this I ask, how come life on other planets could be seen by us to be more advanced than life on Earth that you would believe that they are capable of traveling to earth through space? Are humans less advanced than other life, even when the time frame for advancement has been exactly the same?

I think the answer is obvious why we might be less advanced than other civilizations....... Reality TV.  Just sayin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

This thread has it all: alien civilizations, physics, metaphysics, cosmology, philosophy, geology, history, literature and the inexplicable love we have for our dogs.  Good job guys. 

On the dog front, tomorrow is the 13th anniversary of the day we adopted Gracie, our dalmation mutt. She's developed a lot of tumors this year and the pathology wasn't very promising. We had a large one removed in late October and the vet said it would probably be at most another three or four months and it will be time. She still seems happy and to feel OK most of the time, but we are seeing the tumor we had removed starting to come back. It's just a matter of time now. Maybe another month or so. The vet says you'll know when she stops being Gracie. I'm heartbroken by the decision that will inevitably soon come. 

Did you get a second opinion on the tumors? Most of the time they're benign, fatty cysts. They can live and grow old with them the same way we do. Research suggests that lipomas are misdiagnosed about 30% of the time, usually as cancerous, https://www.hindawi.com/journals/sarcoma/2013/982784/

Fatty cyst tumors are just Mother Nature's way to remind us that the time we have with our dogs is already tragically short, and we need to enjoy every moment we have with them. But if Gracie's tumors are malignant, just remember that malignant cancer eventually gets to us all if we live long enough. If Gracie makes it to 14, 15 or even 16 years old, then she has lived a long life in Dalmatian years. It's never long enough of course, but you seem to treasure her, and her life with you couldn't have been lived better than with someone who treasures her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mikewof said:

Did you get a second opinion on the tumors? Most of the time they're benign, fatty cysts. They can live and grow old with them the same way we do. Research suggests that lipomas are misdiagnosed about 30% of the time, usually as cancerous, https://www.hindawi.com/journals/sarcoma/2013/982784/

Fatty cyst tumors are just Mother Nature's way to remind us that the time we have with our dogs is already tragically short, and we need to enjoy every moment we have with them. But if Gracie's tumors are malignant, just remember that malignant cancer eventually gets to us all if we live long enough. If Gracie makes it to 14, 15 or even 16 years old, then she has lived a long life in Dalmatian years. It's never long enough of course, but you seem to treasure her, and her life with you couldn't have been lived better than with someone who treasures her.

Sent them off to the University of Georgia. Metastatic sarcomas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

Sent them off to the University of Georgia. Metastatic sarcomas. 

I'm sorry to hear that. But she's healthy now, and there are natural anti-metastasis foods that you can feed her which may add years to her life. If the cancer cells lose their ability to metasticize with new capillaries, they lose their potency.

Small amounts of raw honey supposedly help, and lots of dried seaweed, which most dogs seem to love. My dog can easily eat a whole pack of seaweed nori paper, and the anti-metastatic effects of seaweed are emerging in research. It does tend to give them gas, but dog farts are hilarious. Another good thing to add is olive oil, because it tends to clean out cholesterol deposits in the arteries, and when the arterial walls are clear then the malignant cells tend to be broken by the sheer forces in the blood, before they are able to bore through the arterial walls.

Best of luck to you and Gracie, you two might have a lot of good years left with each other. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2017 at 2:16 PM, austin1972 said:

The center is 6,800 something acres of restored wildlife area. It's a big loop - maybe it doesn't look like it from the air but Fermi is huge.

They do creepy science there but it's just an effort to understand things. It's definitely not nefarious. They'll let you in the door so long as you don't touch anything.

Most of the wildlife is outside the ring.  They've got a lot of land around the ring and offshoots.  They used to let you in the door pretty easily.  I went back a couple of years after doing a stint there and they had turned up the security immensely.  Once I got inside I asked around to see why.  Some yahoos came in and stole a bunch of copper from the magnet factory. (B.I.G. magnets all over the place.)  The guys at the scrapyard thought the transaction it was a little funny so they called the lab and somebody went out with a Griger counter.  The stuff was hot as hell.  I hope some of the yahoos sat on the load on the way to the scrapyard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, FoolOnTheHill said:

Most of the wildlife is outside the ring.  They've got a lot of land around the ring and offshoots.  They used to let you in the door pretty easily.  I went back a couple of years after doing a stint there and they had turned up the security immensely.  Once I got inside I asked around to see why.  Some yahoos came in and stole a bunch of copper from the magnet factory. (B.I.G. magnets all over the place.)  The guys at the scrapyard thought the transaction it was a little funny so they called the lab and somebody went out with a Griger counter.  The stuff was hot as hell.  I hope some of the yahoos sat on the load on the way to the scrapyard.

I wouldn't doubt it on the geiger counter. That place uses a lot of power. I haven't been there in years - only flown over. They had a 100% bison herd. That place is so big, I'm not sure where I was when I saw them. I was a kid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, IStream said:

The growth of technology and civilization is highly nonlinear. Even assuming planets that could bear life for exactly the same period as ours there could be wildly different rates of progress. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old and has been able to sustain our flavor of carbon-based life for 4 billion of those years. If the first amino acids came from extraterrestrial sources, there could be billions of years of difference between when they started vs us, depending on when their meteors hit.

Even if you confine yourself to the last 500 million years or so that there've been complex organisms, Earth has had five mass extinctions (that we know of). What if some or all of those hadn't happened? That's a lot of re-boots that you don't have to work through. 

Let's say even the extinction dynamics are the same. What if they're just smarter? Over the course of the 7500 generations or so of human existence, even a modest 0.1% increase in intelligence would have a huge cumulative effect on our civilization's advancement. In compound interest terms, 1.001^7500 = 1800.

Let's say they're no smarter at all but they have a more equitable civilization and instead of disenfranchising more than half their population due to gender, class, caste, or whatever they allow the best and the brightest to thrive regardless of their origin. How many additional Einsteins is that over the course of their existence?

Okay, forget that. Let's say they just got a ~1000 year head start (a 1 part in 4 million rounding error in the age of our planet) and everything else was the same. We got our understanding of modern physics in the 1920's. We got the transistor in the 1960's. We got the internet in the 1990's. We're getting functional AI in the next 10 years. Think of how fast things have progressed in just the last 100 years. What if all that started in 920AD instead of 1920AD. Where would we be now?

Thanks Istr, I enjoyed that bit of knowledge. I love thinking about how we’re orbiting a star that is in continuous motion outward and that, if space travel were possible and we could travel to a different star, our return trip would take longer than the trip out. Also it helps to cement my own ideas on the evolution of Life and of reincarnation for all species. I believe in the Universal Conscious Block and that the transition after death is relatively short, 52 days, before your Life Force is born again, and thinking about the distinct possibility of other stars out there with orbiting planets that could sustain life that shows me that there is huge potential. Of course, I will have to die first to test my theory 

Edited by scottyMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mikewof said:

I'm sorry to hear that. But she's healthy now, and there are natural anti-metastasis foods that you can feed her which may add years to her life. If the cancer cells lose their ability to metasticize with new capillaries, they lose their potency.

Small amounts of raw honey supposedly help, and lots of dried seaweed, which most dogs seem to love. My dog can easily eat a whole pack of seaweed nori paper, and the anti-metastatic effects of seaweed are emerging in research. It does tend to give them gas, but dog farts are hilarious. Another good thing to add is olive oil, because it tends to clean out cholesterol deposits in the arteries, and when the arterial walls are clear then the malignant cells tend to be broken by the sheer forces in the blood, before they are able to bore through the arterial walls.

Best of luck to you and Gracie, you two might have a lot of good years left with each other. 

That's all fine but there isn't much science behind your claims.  Especially your bit about the olive oil.  In addition, I would be concerned about the high sodium levels if you feed your dog a lot of nori.

As far as dog farts being funny, maybe your dog farts lilac scented gas.  My Labs, who always are lying near me when they aren't eating, occasionally have gas.  It doesn't make any noise, the only way I know is when I start to dry heave from the gawdawful smell. Then the fukers won't even look at me l chastise for their attempted homicide, because they know why I am pissed off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, scottyMO said:

I’m trying to put together a response but am finding it difficult. You’re assuming that there must be many levels of civilization and that’s cool. I just think that the universe has many options to spawn life, based on the potential of the big bang. I don’t believe that life on other planets is very different from life on Earth. I also don’t believe that our spark is millions of years younger than other sparks, from the same explosion.

You are assuming that the big bang happened one day and everything formed instantaneously and has remained that way.

You seem to believe in the creationists big bang.

The universe is still expanding, stars form and die daily with different phases along the way.

There are planets millions of years older than ours why would life have to start there the same time as in our system?

EDIT: Just read post #101, science isn't really your thing is it ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On reading this thread with Fermi coming up so many times in the conversation I was waiting for someone to bring it up but paradoxically no one did....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

On reading this thread with Fermi coming up so many times in the conversation I was waiting for someone to bring it up but paradoxically no one did....

Enrico from the grave says Trump is an asshole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, soak_ed said:

That's all fine but there isn't much science behind your claims.  Especially your bit about the olive oil.  In addition, I would be concerned about the high sodium levels if you feed your dog a lot of nori.

As far as dog farts being funny, maybe your dog farts lilac scented gas.  My Labs, who always are lying near me when they aren't eating, occasionally have gas.  It doesn't make any noise, the only way I know is when I start to dry heave from the gawdawful smell. Then the fukers won't even look at me l chastise for their attempted homicide, because they know why I am pissed off.

Dude, I'm a scientist. Do you think I'm in the habit of making up pseudo-scientific bullshit? You're right about monitoring sodium in your dog, but isn't that less of a concern with malignant tumors? Seaweed is very credibly an anti-metastatic algae, http://artemisinine.net/news/seaweed-contains-anti-cancer-compounds.html .  And the sodium is actually a pretty good mixture of trace ocean elements like magnesium and selenium that are also shown to be good anti-cancer compounds.

The olive oil thing is a mixed bag, research on both sides suggesting it is good for removing arterial plaque, others showing better effects with fiber. I was convinced with a simple experiment ... you take a plate with hamburger grease, nothing will get it off except for soap But you can drizzle a little olive oil on top of the grease, and it can then be removed. I don't know why it works, but its undeniable that it works. Now, how much of it enters through the blood barrier? Probably not much, but the molecule is small enough to fit through.

Sorry about your dogs' air biscuits ... what are you feeding those animals? My dog's farts smell like nothing. She's a lady, after all. It's funny because she farts and then gets up and leaves the room, just like a woman of high society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, VhmSays said:

You are assuming that the big bang happened one day and everything formed instantaneously and has remained that way.

You seem to believe in the creationists big bang.

The universe is still expanding, stars form and die daily with different phases along the way.

There are planets millions of years older than ours why would life have to start there the same time as in our system?

EDIT: Just read post #101, science isn't really your thing is it ?

Thanks, great response. Creationism? Nope, that’s definitely not what I believe in, nice swing though. Post 101 is a snaggy post, and I don’t read that crap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Dude, I'm a scientist. Do you think I'm in the habit of making up pseudo0-scientific bullshit? You're right about monitoring sodium in your dog, but that's less of a concern with malignant tumors. Seaweed is very credibly an anti-metastatic algae, http://artemisinine.net/news/seaweed-contains-anti-cancer-compounds.html .  And the sodium is actually a pretty good mixture of trace ocean elements like magnesium and selenium that are also shown to be good anti-cancer compounds.

The olive oil thing is a mixed bag, research on both sides suggesting it is good for removing arterial plaque, others showing better effects with fiber. I was convinced with a simple experiment ... you take a plate with hamburger grease, nothing will get it off except for soap But you can drizzle a little olive oil on top of the grease, and it can then be removed. I don't know why it works, but its undeniable that it works. Now, how much of it enters through the blood barrier? Probably not much, but the molecule is small enough to fit through.

Sorry about your dogs' air biscuits ... what are you feeding those animals? My dog's farts smell like nothing. She's a lady, after all. It's funny because she farts and then gets up and leaves the room, just like a woman of high society.

The plaque is not like grease on a plate...the build up is intracellular and later on if there is a core there is a layer of cells on top of it....oil does not go directly into the blood stream it is broken down first.

Starving a tumour of blood is a treatment option whereas increasing its blood supply leads to faster growth and metastasis 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, scottyMO said:

Thanks Istr, I enjoyed that bit of knowledge. I love thinking about how we’re orbiting a star that is in continuous motion outward and that, if space travel were possible and we could travel to a different star, our return trip would take longer than the trip out. Also it helps to cement my own ideas on the evolution of Life and of reincarnation for all species. I believe in the Universal Conscious Block and that the transition after death is relatively short, 52 days, before your Life Force is born again, and thinking about the distinct possibility of other stars out there with orbiting planets that could sustain life that shows me that there is huge potential. Of course, I will have to die first to test my theory 

Sorry about that post # mixup. I meant this post :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites