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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
rfullarton

would you sack mark richards ?

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i thought this topic would bring up lots of discussion

if owned a yacht that was going to have the race record which hold for years.. i would not be happy 

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Would you sack Mark Richards?

Whatever you and Rico do in the bedroom isn't any of our business. Knock yourself out.

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why would you not sack professional sailors if they fail ? 

if it was another maxi he would be gone ... commanche sold after skipper and owner fell out 

but WOXI is sailed in honour of and for the memory of Bob ... 

plenty of crew come and go on the maxis ...  there are plenty of world champs / gold medallists who race on these ... 

how can the tactician survive this ?

this was complete stupidity by the brains trust on wild oats which cost them the record 

this just wasnt a bad call during the race ... 

it will be interesting to see what happens with WOXI and her crew after the dust settles .. and sparrow takes some sedatives ... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/29/2017 at 5:32 AM, rfullarton said:

bad start, then red mist, then you dont make penalty turns and you loose line honours ? 

who will pay the price ? 

Mrs. Richardson, obviously. 

Too bad for you Mark’s shoes won’t be under your bed in the morning...

 

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I forgot to post this last night of ABC video interview with Gordon Ingate an Olympic, Admirals and America's Cup Legend. 

If your thinking he might not just be up to speed on this shit,  2 years ago at the age of 88, won the Prince Philip Cup for the International Dragon one-design class. He has held oldest Australian Sailing Champion title for last 8 years, winning it 6 years prior to that and for the first time at the age of 82.

His quote of the interview was the  one-hour penalty was "peanuts."

Don't think he will be getting cards from Richo and the Big Fella next Xmas.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/9291414

...^^...certainly the old fella wouldn't pull any punches.  Good he's not the owner or those two ijuts would be chased by the old guy... with a cricket bat!

...Richards and Murray?  ... straight to the Yachting Hall of Shame.  There's ~ a dozen inexplicable decisions that went into the scene., from the moment they got themselves barely crossing C, at best..... the decisions,, the communication,, the execution .... right through to the declaration of a 'Moral Victory' by Richards!   :o    :lol:

   The post-protest interview, where the 'Moral Victory' is declared,,, I sense Oatley going from ...''don't say one more stupid thing'',, to  ''awwright,, that's IT punk,, you gonna taste humble pie''.   ...it's only a matter of time!  10,9,8......     

    For the Oatleys to have their boat complete the ....stupidest act of modern yachting history and  not act,, it paints them in the same tone of stupid! :D

     .....and why does Murray seem to get immunity in all this?   ...almost like he's invisible!

 

When I see all the wild interpretations of the RRS on these pages,,  it makes me realize that these two clowns are by no means alone,, but the fact is Richards and Murray,, they're not two clowns from SA,,, they're meant to be,, and are paid to be,,, the best we've got!!  :o

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23 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

...^^...certainly the old fella wouldn't pull any punches.  Good he's not the owner or those two ijuts would be chased by the old guy... with a cricket bat!

...Richards and Murray?  ... straight to the Yachting Hall of Shame.  There's ~ a dozen inexplicable decisions that went into the scene., from the moment they got themselves barely crossing C, at best..... the decisions,, the communication,, the execution .... right through to the declaration of a 'Moral Victory' by Richards!   :o    :lol:

   The post-protest interview, where the 'Moral Victory' is declared,,, I sense Oatley going from ...''don't say one more stupid thing'',, to  ''awwright,, that's IT punk,, you gonna taste humble pie''.   ...it's only a matter of time!  10,9,8......     

    For the Oatleys to have their boat complete the ....stupidest act of modern yachting history and  not act,, it paints them in the same tone of stupid! :D

     .....and why does Murray seem to get immunity in all this?   ...almost like he's invisible!

 

When I see all the wild interpretations of the RRS on these pages,,  it makes me realize that these two clowns are by no means alone,, but the fact is Richards and Murray,, they're not two clowns from SA,,, they're meant to be,, and are paid to be,,, the best we've got!!  :o

 

So Murray was calling tactics?  Is there any onboard cams with audio?  Would love to hear some!

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

So Murray was calling tactics?  

He was listed as tactician,, I'd imagine that means he was calling tactics,no?  :mellow:

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2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

And for what it’s worth. Mark has seriously denigrated the good name of the Oatley’s in sailing with his actions and behavior after the fact. 

Yah, an astounding 'moral victory' indeed. :lol:

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2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

I’ve met bowmen who are listed on rosters as Bow but who fancy themselves tacticians. :rolleyes: Iain could be listed god of sailing but the wheel is still in richos hands. 

In my books, by not publicly standing clear of the moronic moves,, he shows support. Silence is complicity. <_<

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I see what you did there.

One earned the nick name "Wounded Gull".

The other possibly "Wounded Ego"

On 12/30/2017 at 9:44 AM, LB 15 said:

The guy won 4 world surfing titles. Give him a break.

 

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On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:14 AM, LB 15 said:

The guy won 4 world surfing titles. Give him a break.

That Mark Richards was a sportsman, this one plays dirty.

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^° I wonder what happens if you are a resident caught stealing string for a lynching? 

Hoisted with their own petard.

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4 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

I never expected to see Mexico News Daily linked on SA?  

We spend 5-6 weeks in Mexico each year and I usually follow MND weekly.

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I still can't believe there is no audio recording somewhere, revealing any conversation at the time, between Murray and Richards, or anyone else?  Unless, like someone opined in the other thread, all copies were destroyed to hide the evidence!

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

I still can't believe there is no audio recording somewhere, revealing any conversation at the time, between Murray and Richards, or anyone else?  Unless, like someone opined in the other thread, all copies were destroyed to hide the evidence!

....I wouldn't expect such recordings to make  it off the boat,, there's likely enough shame shared by all who were party to the scene.  Though Murray's silence remains deafening., and of courseany non-response from Oatley only commends Richards' actions.  :mellow:

16 hours ago, view at the front said:

I never expected to see Mexico News Daily linked on SA?  

We spend 5-6 weeks in Mexico each year and I usually follow MND weekly.

...heading down to Baja in a week,, started checking in to Bajanomad  ;)

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16 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

....I wouldn't expect such recordings to make  it off the boat,, there's likely enough shame shared by all who were party to the scene.  Though Murray's silence remains deafening., and of courseany non-response from Oatley only commends Richards' actions.  :mellow:

...heading down to Baja in a week,, started checking in to Bajanomad  ;)

 

You would think that someone would have further comment after Richards statement that they did not believe they fouled?

Let us know if you run across RBooth, down in Baja Haha?

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4 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Let us know if you run across RBooth, down in Baja Haha?

That'd be fun!  ....any clues where to start?  Boat name?... anything?     ...or is he hiding from a posse or bill collectors?   :mellow:

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Being a good crewmate requires Murray to keep his mouth shut. 

Are these boat virtues no longer widespread?

1. Tactician/Navigatior may agree or disagree with Skipper - but once decision has been made whether by consensus or decree, you don't voice disagreement while in company of others or off the boat w/ press.

2. Skipper takes responsibility for bad calls, even if the tactician/navigator made it.

 

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....^^...fair enough on #1,, what happens on boat stays on boat.

...as far as #2 goes,, that's whut this thread's about!  Will Oatley stand with rule 1,, be happy to continue paying said skipper after the most spectacular blunder in pro-yachting history?   :mellow:

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1 hour ago, couchsurfer said:

That'd be fun!  ....any clues where to start?  Boat name?... anything?     ...or is he hiding from a posse or bill collectors?   :mellow:

Probably hiding from the Narcos and the IRS!  When you find the hookers and blow, Boothy won't be very far away!

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3 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Probably hiding from the Narcos and the IRS!  When you find the hookers and blow, Boothy won't be very far away!

...that narrows it down a bit... either Tijuana,, or likely La Paz or south, if he's got a boat  :mellow:

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

Being a good crewmate requires Murray to keep his mouth shut. 

Are these boat virtues no longer widespread?

1. Tactician/Navigatior may agree or disagree with Skipper - but once decision has been made whether by consensus or decree, you don't voice disagreement while in company of others or off the boat w/ press.

2. Skipper takes responsibility for bad calls, even if the tactician/navigator made it.

 

With Murray the new head of the High Performance team at Australian Sailing (Olympic sailors etc), it would be interesting to hear what he has to say to them if questioned about the incident. 

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At the end of the day, the guy has won more Hobarts than anyone else, he suggested the modifications be made to Wild Oats XI after the 2014 win, which were proven to be highly successful, and he is the only guy to beat the so-called fastest monohull in the world not once, but twice. Comanche is supposedly the fastest monohull on the planet, a sailing weapon, and they still couldn't get the job done on the water against a 12 year old boat. Sack Mark Richards, no. A wally of the week award, Yes.

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

At the end of the day, the guy has won more Hobarts than anyone else, he suggested the modifications be made to Wild Oats XI after the 2014 win, which were proven to be highly successful, and he is the only guy to beat the so-called fastest monohull in the world not once, but twice. Comanche is supposedly the fastest monohull on the planet, a sailing weapon, and they still couldn't get the job done on the water against a 12 year old boat. Sack Mark Richards, no. A wally of the week award, Yes.

Why do you fucking antipodeans construct this unnecessary false-equivalency between crossing the line first and winning? Those are two very different concepts. 7 News does it, the CYCA does it, armchair watch captains on SA do it. In the same way that a Ferrari will win a race against a Dump Truck, WOXI will have a good tilt at being first across the line compared to a Sydney 38, regardless of whether it's driven by Ricko or a Kangaroo with dyed hair. But if, at the end of the day, the Sydney 38 sails a better race relative to its handicap, it should deservedly be the winner because line honors is "go that way, fast" and handicap requires more nuance and skill.

As for who is faster; if you compare the polar curves of the two boats I promise you that on average the values for Comanche will be higher than those of WOXI. It just so happens that WOXI is faster at certain angles. This is in the same way that a Ferrari will be faster than a Dump Truck on most every kind of pavement and a Dump Truck will be faster than a Ferrari if driving through a field of mud. Not to mention, the incorrect assumption that a boat is the fastest in the world because it's beaten another boat in a race. Following that logic, does it mean that because Blackjack beat WOXI in the SOLAS race and WOXI "beat" Comanche in the Hobart Race, that by the transitive property Blackjack beat Comanche in the Hobart Race? 

This line of argument is also based on the fallacy that the Sydney to Hobart race is the only racetrack upon which the reputation of any boat or sailor can be based. I look at the 24hr, Transpacific, Transatlantic and Bermuda Race records and wonder why they should be disregarded in the face of a "disputed" Hobart Race record. 

Finally, I have bad news for you. Wild Oats XI is a 3 year old boat. Period. Just because they're (maybe) using the same wheels as they had in 2005 does not make it the same boat. This is the same as saying you can't take the winches, rudder, keel, and mast out of Australia II and put them in an TP52 and call the TP52 a 12 Metre. Please see the performance of Black Jack in this Hobart for how Comanche did against a 12 year old design.  

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The backbone containing the keel box, chain plates etc is original. Closer comparison would be taking the 12yr old TP52 you own which had the latest mast fitted 5yrs ago & then 5yrs after that adding new bow & stern. 

 

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9 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

The backbone containing the keel box, chain plates etc is original. Closer comparison would be taking the 12yr old TP52 you own which had the latest mast fitted 5yrs ago & then 5yrs after that adding new bow & stern. 

 

I own a 12-year-old TP52?  Who knew!  

Does my wife know?

(Actually, what with all the Swiss Army knife stuff, who knows what age WOXI is.  But it isn't 12 years old.  And it lost the S2H on the water.)

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Check it out for yourself. Not quite the sane pazzaz as Read's tour of Comanche. Maybe read got laid the night before his  

 

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On 1/1/2018 at 11:34 AM, couchsurfer said:

At the other end of the spectrum, a friend had his house broken into while he was sleeping in La Manzanilla, Mexico last week.  Camera equipment was taken.  He mentioned it to the Delgado, and the items were returned this morning.  Apparently a visitor there for the Christmas holiday from inland wasn't aware of the proper "Rules" of behavior.  Sometimes the Zeta's can be useful.

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

At the end of the day, the guy has won more Hobarts than anyone else, he suggested the modifications be made to Wild Oats XI after the 2014 win, which were proven to be highly successful, and he is the only guy to beat the so-called fastest monohull in the world not once, but twice. Comanche is supposedly the fastest monohull on the planet, a sailing weapon, and they still couldn't get the job done on the water against a 12 year old boat. Sack Mark Richards, no. A wally of the week award, Yes.

The “so called” fastest mono in the world is exactly that, you muppet. It did exactly what it was designed to do. 

No one’s arguing that WOXI is probably a better all-rounder. 

Commanche was built to break records and did a pretty good job of it. 

Your man crush is adorable, but kind of makes you look stupid  

 

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13 hours ago, jackolantern said:

This line of argument is also based on the fallacy that the Sydney to Hobart race is the only racetrack upon which the reputation of any boat or sailor can be based. 

So do you think the owners of the worlds best maxi yachts of their generation ( Kialoa, Ondine, American Eagle, Windward Passage, Comarchie, Rambler, Condor, Sayonara ect ect ) all brought there boats down here because they like the fucking Bass strait weather?  An owner can claim they own the greatest offshore racing yacht on earth but if they haven't won the Hobart, they are playing with themselves. It is like being a world champion tennis player who hasn't played at Wimbledon. 

 

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12 hours ago, Monkey said:

The “so called” fastest mono in the world is exactly that, you muppet. It did exactly what it was designed to do. 

No one’s arguing that WOXI is probably a better all-rounder. 

Commanche was built to break records and did a pretty good job of it. 

Your man crush is adorable, but kind of makes you look stupid  

 

So what do you think your Comarchie man crush makes you look like? 2 wins from 3 matchups looks like XI is the faster boat- well certainly the better sailed boat anyway.

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3 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

So what do you think your Comarchie man crush makes you look like? 2 wins from 3 matchups looks like XI is the faster boat- well certainly the better sailed boat anyway.

In the very post you quoted me on, I already admitted that WOXI seems to be the better all around boat. 

Commanche seems more suited to wait for weather windows, then crush records. 

Both boats are very good at what they’re meant to do. 

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Huh? So the owners of Comarchie didn't think that the boat was 'supposed to be able to beat XI to Hobart? JC bought it and hired JS to come second? 

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

So do you think the owners of the worlds best maxi yachts of their generation ( Kialoa, Ondine, American Eagle, Windward Passage, Comarchie, Rambler, Condor, Sayonara ect ect ) all brought there boats down here because they like the fucking Bass strait weather?  An owner can claim they own the greatest offshore racing yacht on earth but if they haven't won the Hobart, they are playing with themselves. It is like being a world champion tennis player who hasn't played at Wimbledon. 

 

Those same boat owners shipped their boats to Cowes, Bermuda, Sardinia, Florida, Hawaii, Cape Town, etc. Doubly true of the fact that, in the Northern Hemisphere Winter, there is literally fuckall distance racing over 200nm to be done in the majority of the U.S. 

So if you have deep pockets you go where the racing is.

You're a funny guy and I laugh at most of your posts, but you're being pig-headed, jingoistic, and argumentative. 

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

. It is like being a world champion tennis player who hasn't played at Wimbledon. 

 

Wimbledon?  Lol.

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

You're a funny guy and I laugh at most of your posts, but you're being pig-headed, jingoistic, and argumentative. 

Agree.

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19 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Check it out for yourself. Not quite the sane pazzaz as Read's tour of Comanche. Maybe read got laid the night before his  

 

 I only had to get to his explanation about why there are two wheels to conclude that he's a bit of a plonker

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6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

So what do you think your Comarchie man crush makes you look like? 2 wins from 3 matchups looks like XI is the faster boat- well certainly the better sailed boat anyway.

Brain-farts in the harbour, notwithstanding. ;)

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Really? The Sydney Hobart? You must be fucking kidding me. Sure, it's a nice coastal race - but what ocean is involved? The Tasman Sea? The Bass Strait? Are these oceans?

Have you ever seen the north atlantic? You'd shit your fucking brains out.

Australia is where mediocre boats go to die. 

You need to get out more, you fucking pedestrian cunt.

 

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8 hours ago, LB 15 said:

So what do you think your Comarchie man crush makes you look like? 2 wins from 3 matchups looks like XI is the faster boat- well certainly the better sailed boat anyway.

Has Comanche beaten WOIX across the line in the S2H? I thought WOIX beat them across the line twice and one DNF during their matchups.

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Query for the WO advocates because I'm not familiar with her internal layout - how much diesel can she carry? Is her tankage minimized for Sydney Hobart? Could she conceptually sail a longer event or be delivered under her own sails?

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7 minutes ago, Moonduster said:

Really? The Sydney Hobart? You must be fucking kidding me. Sure, it's a nice coastal race - but what ocean is involved? The Tasman Sea? The Bass Strait? Are these oceans?

Have you ever seen the north atlantic? You'd shit your fucking brains out.

Australia is where mediocre boats go to die. 

You need to get out more, you fucking pedestrian cunt.

 

So where are the best 100 ft maxis in the world sailing?

 

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1 hour ago, randomlurker said:

 I only had to get to his explanation about why there are two wheels to conclude that he's a bit of a plonker

It's a presser for the general public. Did you want him to get the Polars out & start explaining them. 

LB clear your inbox. 

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12 minutes ago, Moonduster said:

Really? The Sydney Hobart? You must be fucking kidding me. Sure, it's a nice coastal race - but what ocean is involved? The Tasman Sea? The Bass Strait? Are these oceans?

Have you ever seen the north atlantic? You'd shit your fucking brains out.

Australia is where mediocre boats go to die. 

You need to get out more, you fucking pedestrian cunt.

 

I agree that the term Ocean race should not be used for these kind of Coastal or offshore races, however you have clearly never been in a east coast low or a cold front in Bass strait. How many Hobarts have you done?

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6 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

LB clear your inbox. 

Done - I have had a big few weeks of people PMing me to tell me what a cunt I am. 

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On 12/29/2017 at 3:14 PM, LB 15 said:

The guy won 4 world surfing titles. Give him a break.

always been more partial to occy than richards but i totally agree with this post

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36 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Query for the WO advocates because I'm not familiar with her internal layout - how much diesel can she carry? Is her tankage minimized for Sydney Hobart? Could she conceptually sail a longer event or be delivered under her own sails?

Don't forget WOXI (before bow modifications) was chartered by Roy Disney for TransPAC, then sailed back from Hawaii to AUS......      2018 Prediction !!!!!   Roy Disney to buy WOXI and take her to California !!!!  ;);)    Watch this space ....

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5 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Anyone here who has sailed with the young cooney...is she any good (at sailing)?

Does it matter?

0d992f6f0a6ac9961e88c5e7c84e0c19

 

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4 minutes ago, xsailmakerSYD said:

Don't forget WOXI (before bow modifications) was chartered by Roy Disney for TransPAC, then sailed back from Hawaii to AUS......      2018 Prediction !!!!!   Roy Disney to buy WOXI and take her to California !!!!  ;);)    Watch this space ....

Yah but she was completely different boat back then. I'd love to see her spread her wings a bit and give the Middle Sea or Round the Island a go.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

Does it matter?

0d992f6f0a6ac9961e88c5e7c84e0c19

 

Not the first redhead to be hauled up a mast at the Catholic youth club.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

it does to me!

She's been sailing for a few years now. First on the brinda bus and more recently on maserati. Pretty sure she has come a long way and has become a decent trimmer but not sure how much opportunity she would get on something like comanche.

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5 minutes ago, BlueMountainsYC said:

She's been sailing for a few years now. First on the brinda bus and more recently on maserati. Pretty sure she has come a long way and has become a decent trimmer but not sure how much opportunity she would get on something like comanche.

I'd normally hesitate to comment on "family," but it's worth saying that she's actually a great sailor. Julia's not only a very decent jib/kite trimmer, but she's one of those sailors who just gets all the parts of keeping a boat going. Automatically back flaking sheets after a tack or gybe, sponging out bilges at the end of the day, making coffee when at sea - all the tasks that (IMHO) are more important to a boat than being an awesome trimmer, but a lousy team player. And that stands out even more when her family owns the boat.

As an example, in the 2015 Hobart as we were punching into a really fresh southerly at 2am (and everyone else on board was trying to project manage reefing the main, breaking battens etc.) Julia was exactly where she was meant to be - down to leeward, trimming the jib and getting REALLY pissed off when people kept asking if she was OK. She was then in the galley a couple of hours later helping me make coffee for the guys on deck.

She's a total team player, from helping the sewer team pack kites (which is a shit of a job on an 80' maxi) to buying a round of beers after racing.

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We have had two port starboard incidents within a week in two of the world biggest sailing events....

The worlds best in the Melb start of the Volvo politely did their turns and got on with business.

The self proclaimed Aus elite on WO chose to ignore.

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Why do you keep insisting the WO / COM was a port starboard incident.  It was not, it was a rule 13 incident.  Time to get the rule book out.

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35 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Why do you keep insisting the WO / COM was a port starboard incident.  It was not, it was a rule 13 incident.  Time to get the rule book out.

Here you go again playing the rules game.! You were the same person who called it a nothing incident where both skippers knew what  they were doing. Well clearly it was none of the things you said. WO was penalized and it cost them the race. There is nowhere I have seen you comeback and apologize for getting it so wrong.! Move on FFS

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41 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Why do you keep insisting the WO / COM was a port starboard incident.  It was not, it was a rule 13 incident.  Time to get the rule book out.

Read the fucking report you idiot.! 

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On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, aA said:

always been more partial to occy than richards but i totally agree with this post

Nah, Rabbit FTW...

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You wrote:

I agree that the term Ocean race should not be used for these kind of Coastal or offshore races, however you have clearly never been in a east coast low or a cold front in Bass strait. How many Hobarts have you done?

What on earth are you on about? If I wanted to race (another) coastal race with survival (meaning deadly) conditions, I'd do another Farallones Race. It's 1/10th the distance and nearly twice as dangerous by any measure.

In fact, why anyone in their right mind would go to Sydney escapes me. It's not even a city, simply an endless suburban sprawl having its proximity to Melbourne as it's sole redeeming feature.

You want a great race, try a Transatlantic or Cape Town to Rio. Can't deal with the distance? I'd recommend a Middle Sea or Caribbean 600.

But a Hobart? Really? You must be kidding.

 

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