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I'm new to this, all of this... I sailed sunfish at boy scout camp for a week about 15 years ago, then went on the Chesapeake for an afternoon in a beneteau.

Now I'm crewing for a friend on his Pearson 424, and the first night out we had gusts over 35kts and a significant wave height of 10'.

I want to get into single-handed dinghy cruising and I've been checking the forums. Most people don't have an interest in what I'm looking for, so it's hard to find. I want something comparable to a wayfarer, which is hard to say having never seen one.

My neighbor has had an albacore parked in the driveway since his son passed almost 20 years ago. I'm thinking about making an offer, but want some input as to what might better suit my "needs."

Models I'm considering:

Wayfarer, Flying Scot, Buccaneer, Paceshup Alouette, Pumpkin Seed, and Albacore.

I'm not looking for a racing boat like a laser, but something robust, fast, forgiving, open (no, no O'Days, etc.), 15+', trailerable, single-handed (even if it's with practice), and "spacious..."

Does the albacore even come close? Budget is $1500, tops, but I'm willing to do some beefing up, re-rigging, modifying, etc.

I've been looking into this for a bit, but wanted to put it forward. Is there something I'm missing? I'm looking to do extended offshore sailing, starting in the Bay, then maybe the Great Lakes, after I get off this roller coaster.

2017_12_13_Foster_BostonEffie_1007_preview.jpeg

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For something like that (alone on the open sea?) I'd want a Herreshoff Watch Hill, but that would be a heck of a lot more than $1500!  Sharpies such as Reuel Parker's 18 ft might be worth looking into. There may be another forum on SA that more closely suits your niche.  

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@thengling, chaaaa... $150,000 makes me feel dumb for passing on the 25' Van Dam in Kingston back in Oct.

Sharpies, with hard chines, are an idea, and wood isn't necessarily the enemy... at that rate I might go for it and DIY what I need, but I like the idea of a budget and a backyard boat.

Really like Whitehall Dories, for wood, but they might be a nightmare on big water.

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OP says single handed. Echoing Dex, what's a good weight to singlehand a Wayfarer?

(edited)

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@Dex Sawash @thengling, profile photo game on point. I'm hovering around 150. Eating vegan from FL to PR might put me under that, but not too far. I'll have to check about righting a capsized, loaded, sodden Wayfarer, especially in heavy seas. I'm thinking about making a second centerboard, heavier and longer...

 

@bill4 noted. I'll keep my eyes open. I currently "live" in my parents basement in Central PA, but Superior isn't impossible, and there's Annapolis. I was thinking of sailing the Bay solo or with crew a few times, then running Erie to The Cottages and back, maybe Lake Ontario. I'm curious to try some longer "races," if this becomes a thing.

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Thanks, too. Any insight into rigging, sailing, resources, dinghy cruising advice, and anecdotes are greatly welcome.

Also, single-handing a wayfarer sounds like it could take a bit of practice and planning... suggestions?

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@thengling I saw a guy's post in a forum who said his 120lb wife could right one on her own, don't know the load, buoyancy, sails or weather though.

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The Wayfarer is a great little boat, shouldn't be a problem to right one that is properly fitted out with flotation in the right places.

You might want to check out this thread

FB- Doug

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3 hours ago, iwentsailingonce said:

Thanks, too. Any insight into rigging, sailing, resources, dinghy cruising advice, and anecdotes are greatly welcome.

Also, single-handing a wayfarer sounds like it could take a bit of practice and planning... suggestions?

You can find tons of info on cruising Wayfarers.

http://www.wayfarer-international.org/WIT/cruise.daysail/cruisetips/singlehandrigging.html

Surf around the Wayfarer sites. Stories of North Sea cruising, reefing mainsails, small outboards, tents etc etc. Very active in and around Toronto.

http://wayfarer-canada.org/forsale.html

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You want to do multi-day sleep ashore camp-cruising? The Wayfarer is regularly used for these sorts of things. 

You are probably a bit light to single-hand a big two-handed race dinghy like the Buccaneer in brisk conditions (esp recovery).

Flying Scot isn't self-rescuing if swamped, takes a power boat and people who know how to save one when they do go over . A $1500 Scot will have a soft floor (no idea if that makes them unsafe but it does make them slower). 

You should read all you can about Everglades Challenge, Race To Alaska, Texas 300 and other adventure races to see how people solve the various challenges.

Maybe you can work a deal for shared use of the neighbor's Albacore and get some more dinghy experience so you have a better baseline of dinghy knowledge. The Albacore will quickly ramp your skill up way beyond the what the big Pearson will. No idea about self-recue on the Albacore.

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Honestly, it seems to me that " single handed dinghy cruising " can be very enjoyable if you spend each night on the shore but " extended offshore sailing " in a smallish open boat sounds miserable and potentially very dangerous. Keep in mind that I have sailed this type of  boat my entire life and this is only my opinion. With that said, I think the choice of boat depends on exactly how you intend to use it. Some of the qualities you listed that you desire cannot all be found in one boat. What you are talking about can be very dangerous so read some books on small boats in big water. That will help you select the right boat. Be careful!

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1 hour ago, Dex Sawash said:

You want to do multi-day sleep ashore camp-cruising? The Wayfarer is regularly used for these sorts of things. 

You are probably a bit light to single-hand a big two-handed race dinghy like the Buccaneer in brisk conditions (esp recovery).

Flying Scot isn't self-rescuing if swamped, takes a power boat and people who know how to save one when they do go over . A $1500 Scot will have a soft floor (no idea if that makes them unsafe but it does make them slower). 

You should read all you can about Everglades Challenge, Race To Alaska, Texas 300 and other adventure races to see how people solve the various challenges.

Maybe you can work a deal for shared use of the neighbor's Albacore and get some more dinghy experience so you have a better baseline of dinghy knowledge. The Albacore will quickly ramp your skill up way beyond the what the big Pearson will. No idea about self-recue on the Albacore.

 

There's a lot of small boats out there that are self-rescuing "in theory." An Albacore could be made so, fairly easily, but unless you're getting a fairly new boat that's got well-documented capsize behavior, it's not something to take for granted. As noted, the Flying Scot is problematic but then I have also seem some older Lightnings that were as bad or worse. The two common ways are a double hull, or a raised sole with airbags;  but neither is guaranteed especially with older boats.

Its a fairly simple problem, engineering-wise. All you need is flotation both sufficient and placed such that they boat not only will not sink but can be sailed away from a swamping/capsize.  That said, several double hulled boats (including, sadly, most older Buccaneers) either have lost the ability due to loss of watertight integrity, or weren't really designed all that well to start with.

 

1 hour ago, xonk1 said:

Honestly, it seems to me that " single handed dinghy cruising " can be very enjoyable if you spend each night on the shore but " extended offshore sailing " in a smallish open boat sounds miserable and potentially very dangerous. Keep in mind that I have sailed this type of  boat my entire life and this is only my opinion. With that said, I think the choice of boat depends on exactly how you intend to use it. Some of the qualities you listed that you desire cannot all be found in one boat. What you are talking about can be very dangerous so read some books on small boats in big water. That will help you select the right boat. Be careful!

Maybe I'm just too gregarious, but extended single-handed sailing sounds very unpleasant to me. Offshore in a small boat? Fun for an afternoon, for longer passages a potential nightmare given any bad weather. Ballasting for self-righting, adding a watertight cabin, all of these make it less of a suicide mission but they also add weight (reduce sailing performance) and cost. By the time you get the basics in place, you're looking at something like a Mini-TransAt boat. Which is really not suitable for a beach cruiser.

FB- Doug

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Wayfarer is a great boat, but lots of different versions, so do your research as some have undesirable habits, like the early self drainer that was unstable from a capsize due to the amount of water still on board.

I use a standard glass Mk2, it is easy to right from a capsize but takes on loads of water and a big bucket is essential. We fitted it with a mast head float as it will invert.

Single handing a wayfarer is easy. They sail well with main only, just rake the board back a bit. Roller furling jib makes it all easy. Boat is stable enough to do anchor work on the foredeck.

Biggest problem? The weight, so ours stays on a mooring and we get plenty of help at the end of the season, so make sure it comes with a top notch trailer and winch:)

Why a dinghy? Why not one of the many small trailable cruising cats? You would get so much more space! Maybe a Wharram Hitia 17  (https://www.wharram.com/site/self-build-boats#ethnic)        

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Et al, @Dart96, @Dex Sawash, @Steam Flyer, @xonk1:

 

Yea though extended offshore dinghy cruising sounds miserable, that be my intention. The dangers permitting, should be mitigated by expecting the worst, which, if I may ask yet another question, what really is the worst that could happen to a man at sea?

I find the lines and spirit of the mini-transat boats to be more than agreeabe, save that d***** cabin. Why no cabin? I don't find it to be requisite, as of yet. The purpose of this boat and it's subsequent passages are to sail, and although a significant degree of misery be unavoidable, it is not likely to last a duration beyond the human will. This be not a pleasure cruise.

True, for this current passage I am quite well provisioned with the romance novels to inspire necessary spirit--Ocean Crossing Wayfarer, Berserk, North to the Night, Storm Sailing... Now begins the ground work for the realization of true adventure, beyond the inception of its fantasy.

There be little left ashore for me, save a means to reach the sea, and so I shall, forevermore, be one with thee when I can live among my dreams.

 

I'll be finding my wayfarer and outfitting, and practicing, and perhaps I shall race on the Real Lake 2019 afore I set off. This is no more a suicide mission than to wake up in the morning.

 

I bid you all adieu and a happy New Year. May your weathervanes fail and your auto helms die.

 

 

Godspeed,

 

XX

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@Dart96 noted. Glass mk2 sounds about ideal for this. As for cats, there seems to be a strong bias against multi-hulls. For some reason I'm envisioning a planing dinghy, and the wayfarer, equipped with a roller reefing main, and maybe furling jib (hanks provide the advantage of interchangability, likely less necessary on a wayfarer).

Perhaps my neighbors albacore is a suitable option for training. I long to be underway.

 

Thank you all for the input.

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iwentsailingonce, to paraphrase, " the sea is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect "

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2 hours ago, xonk1 said:

"the sea is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect "

Curious thing, I was at a CCA luncheon, and the one couple had made 3-4 circumnavs. The wife wasn't accepted into the club until after they washed ashore in a storm off the Carolinas. A week later we rounded Montauk and I wasn't sure I could handle 4 days to VA.

 

I'm not too proud to learn from failure, especially when my survival depends on it. A quote from one of my favorites (I don't actually read much), Deep Survival, by Laurence Gonzales:

"The perfect adventure shouldn’t be that much more hazardous in a real sense than ordinary life, for that invisible rope that holds us here can always break. We can live a life of bored caution and die of cancer. Better to take the adventure, minimize the risks, get the information, and then go forward in the knowledge that we’ve done everything we can..."

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I'll second the notion that you should look at what the folks doing the Everglades Challenge and R2AK are up to. 

I've done a some dinghy cruising and adventure racing both solo and two-up, including a bunch of ECs. First thing I learned early on is going solo is a harder than going doublehanded. This is especially true when the weather gets bad when you've already been at the tiller for 18 hours. But I understand the appeal of singlehanding, and still aspire to do more of it myself even though it's always more fun to have a crew along to share the experience and also to allow for some time to rest while under sail and making long passages. 

You need first and foremost a comfortable boat that's easily handled and well balanced under sail. It should have easy to use and well thought out methods of reefing, at least two reefs on any mast mounted sails and either roller furling or a downhaul on any jibs. You should be able to rescue the boat yourself if you capsize. You should have a way to get back on board from deep water, and by this I mean a fixed ladder. 

The Albacore would be dreadfully uncomfortable for cruising and too powered up. Flying Scots are a bear to recover when capsized as they hold several thousand pounds of water that you have to remove by hand and also the fact that the open centerboard trunk is below the waterline when the boat is re-righted from a capsize. Also, since the CB falls back into the case when the boat goes over and inevitably turtles, it's damn near impossible to recover without a lot of help.

Wayfarers and the Canadian made copies CL16s have a pretty good record as dinghy cruisers.

I'm not a big fan of sloops for dinghy cruising. My last boat was a cat ketch Core Sound 17. I find the split rig to be easier to handle with singlehanding. It had a lot of "gears" you could shift when the wind got up with two reefs in each sail. It was well balanced and didn't load up the rudder like the typical dinghy sloop does in big wind and waves. (So many Everglades Challenge sloops have had rudder problems over the years....) You can sheet the mizzen in and let the main fly and the boat would go head to wind and stay there while you reefed or tended to eating, changing clothes, relieving yourself, repairs, or just to take a rest. 

 

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Dex and Mister Moon are on the right track. Check with the EC and R2AK crowd. Wayfarers are good boats, very common for camp-cruising, but usually sailed double-handed. I like Flying Scots, but agree with above that they're very difficult to self-rescue. Also usually sailed with 2 or 3, so will be a handful sailing solo. In the past I've seen people camp-cruise a Snipe and a 470, again that's with 2. Might be possible with one. Cockpit is pretty cramped in both , as far as gear storage and sleeping on board (forget it). The Coresounds that Mr Moon mentioned are very suitable. Matt Layton's Micro-cruisers are perhaps exactly what you're looking for, but you'd have to build one. They are easy and inexpensive to build, though. You're probably looking for more shelter than they offer, but the Hobie TI/AI are very popular as a multihull option.

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The Hobie TI/AI isn't a terrible way to go. I've recently picked up a TI and it's pretty fun to sail, if wet. A drysuit helps. 

The only problem is pretty much none of the stuff we're mentioning is in your budget. If you aren't afraid of building, you could build a pretty decent camp cruiser. I like Jim Michalak's Mayfly 16 for a first build. It's really easy and inexpensive  to build and sails reasonably well. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/jm-mayfly16.htm

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Here's what would worry me about sailing alone offshore in a dinghy: the wind turns offshore, you become exhausted, the boat capsizes, the boat gets away from you, and you don't have the strength to swim after it...

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@Rainbow Spirit, that is a situation you methodically rehearse avoiding. Even on my friends 42' pearson we tether in. You lose your boat at any point your best bet is probably to exhale and swim as far down as possible, then open wide... I'm a terrible swimmer, 200yds at best. Love the cold.

@RKoch, @MisterMoon

What about a Raven? At this rate, despite the drawbacks, an Albacore would fit my needs til I can either build a boat or buy a decent one that fits. I like the old Atlantic class boats, but I think a wayfarer is likely stretching it... I'll look into the EC and R2AK boats. I'm honestly contemplating the tri-lakes challenge. Got a friend getting married in Twin Cities in June and our other friend and I might drive out. He'd be good crew.

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Raven looks really big and powerful. Might be handful, so carry a PLB for when you capsize it offshore. 

If you can find a SLI Daysailer (which is an updated version of the O'Day Daysailer 2), you should give that a look.  

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If you get a boat that can capsize, you have to be able to right it. Solo, that means no bigger than about 15'.  Id look at something like Matt Laydons Paradox,  which can be cruised by 1 or 2 (if you're good friends). Very easy and inexpensive to build, probably less than cost of used boat.

http://www.microcruising.com/paradox1.htm

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@MisterMoon, I would have a PRB/EPIRB with other redundant survival and location systems, sure, but really, capsizing underway is a question of when not if with this type of sailing, and likely seas would be in excess of 15' (hypothetically)...

Raven likely is way-overpowered. I think I saw one in VA, but I've no clue.

Ocean Crossing Wayfarer, for the unacquainted, Frank Dye and one crew dead reckoned a wooden wayfarer from Scotland to Iceland, 650nm, over 11 days through 4 gales. That was in 1963.

Supposedly two guys were trying to sail a Viper 640 across the pacific, couldn't find any info on it.

Sat beacons are good if you want them to find a body for a "proper burial," but really, I try to practice not dying in my endeavors. I probably sound really arrogant about now, not being a "sailor," but a locator beacon won't save your life 500nm from land, or at least you shouldn't plan on it.

I'm looking for a boat that isn't "enclosed," that is fairly bomb-proof, able to be single-handed (with practice and modifications), at least 15' LOA, preferrably a planing monohull, and costs between $500-$5,000 fully tuned-up.

I've heard from a few people what I'd figured, sounds like a Wayfarer, or building one myself. Some solid leads and advice too. Sorry to come in and splash about asking what's a good dinghy for blue water sailing... I should have out right said, "I might do this eventually..."

For now I'm stuck at anchor in FL. This gale just blew two boats ashore a quarter mi downwind.

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@MisterMoon having done several EC's, are you in FL? I've got a day ashore tomorrow. Might have more than one. It snowed today. I've been rereading your replies, it'd be good to pick your brain more, better than googling.

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I have a Flying Scot, that I cruise. Motor Mount, Lazy Jacks, Topping Lift, Mast Float, Sun Shade,  Swim Ladder . Have added a line to top of jib and ran back to cockpit for fast drop. Tiller tender helps out a lot moving forward singlehandedly. Plenty of storage forward and aft. Totes and dry bags. Compass and a phone gps. Stereo is my luxury item. Cooler and a small butane stove with magma pots. This spring adding non skid deck paint. Me and the dog need it.  Boat is very stable and fast enough for me. I. Sails well and pretty flat. Not to say it won't heel. My Blue Heeler Kimber and I do nicely with set up.  

S/V Blue Heeler 

Brian McCrary

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On 2017-12-30 at 10:27 PM, iwentsailingonce said:

Thanks, too. Any insight into rigging, sailing, resources, dinghy cruising advice, and anecdotes are greatly welcome.

Also, single-handing a wayfarer sounds like it could take a bit of practice and planning... suggestions?

The Wayfarer is the classic cruising dinghy (watch this 44-minute video: "4000 miles in a Wayfarer").

You should get in touch with Rob Dunbar (Twitter account @HOUSEINHALIFAX). He has lots of experience single-handing CL-16 2120, Celtic Kiss. (see e.g. "An Intense Crossing"). He's a friendly guy, so contact him and pick his brain.

For present purposes, here is a quotation from one of his old cruise reports:

"As I was again sailing solo with little weight aboard Celtic Kiss, and given the forecast and current sea state at the harbour mouth, I thought I’d be better off sailing under a reefed main so as not to be overpowered. I soon learned that this was an unnecessary exercise, as the added ballast of supplies made Celtic Kiss more stable than I had anticipated.  What a pleasant surprise to find my 350lb dinghy behaving like a keelboat." 

P.S. As you probably know, the CL-16 is an unauthorized Canadian-made copy of the Wayfarer. Secondhand CL-16s are readily available and usually quite a bit cheaper than Wayfarers. For your purposes one would be just as good as a Wayfarer, and with its simplified rigging perhaps even better.

clboatworks-cl16.jpg

P.P.S. A few other resources that you might find helpful:

  1. "In Search of the Perfect Dinghy";
  2. Dinghy Cruising With Phillips (1981)
  3. The Dinghy Cruising Companion (2014);
  4. Dinghy Cruising, 4th ed. (2011)

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@Svanen Thank you for the links, I'll have to check them out with the absurd amount of sitting at anchor I have to still look forward to. I finished Ocean Crossing Wayfarer which only fueled my ideas more. The idea of cruiser camping is nice, but I also am drawn to challenges like Everglades and Barthels. And then you have Chiles and Ant...

 

@badpirate66 That sounds close to what I'm hoping to do. And my parents Golden would love it; he already loves motorcycle rides and the water. How well does your scot point to windward? From what I can find the Trans-Superior is mostly an upwind race, and sitting here in WPB we keep watching the Easterly Trades between us and Puerto Rico.

 

There's a soling beside us, and although not a dinghy, is alluring. But I don't think it fits what I'm looking for. I'll check up on CL-16's. Hard not to throw down $500-$800 for something to cruise around in while we wait for our weather offshore. Finding work, and play til it comes.

 

Many thanks.

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50 minutes ago, iwentsailingonce said:

I finished Ocean Crossing Wayfarer which only fueled my ideas more. The idea of cruiser camping is nice, but I also am drawn to challenges like Everglades and Barthels.

Glad to hear that you liked Ocean Crossing Wayfarer. Dinghy Cruising, 4th ed., recommended above is by Margaret Dye (Frank's wife, now widow). If you search YouTube for "Summer Cruise 1964", you can find a home movie of Frank's Norwegian Sea crossing with Bill Brockbank.

I suspect you would need a smaller, lighter boat for the Everglades, which is a somewhat specialized event and IIRC requires competitors to self-launch from the beach above the high-water mark. Even with rollers, man-hauling a Wayfarer or CL-16 singlehanded would be difficult; a Flying Scot (class minimum weight 675 lbs) would be all but impossible.

FS's are very nice boats, but they are right up there at the top end of dinghy sizes. They can be sailed singlehanded, but if that's your specific aspiration I wouldn't deliberately seek one out as my first choice. Brian can presumably provide more insight on this.

May be of interest: an account of the 2011 Tip of the Mitt Challenge, by two Wayfarer sailors.

P.S. Are you familiar with Small Craft Advisor? Lots of interesting articles in that magazine.

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Early next month (February 2-4) the Lake Eustis Sailing Club is hosting the Wayfarer Mid-Winter's. That would provide a great opportunity to see the boat, talk to owners and go for a trial sail. Contact Dave Hepting for more information (his email is hepting.david@gmail.com, telephone number is 352-250-6773).

Besides Wayfarers, LESC is also the home of FS Fleet # 150, so a visit would give you a chance to compare both types side-by-side. I still think that its really too large for your intended purpose, but judge for yourself.

If you decide you want a Flying Scot, 2711 is for sale up in St. Augustine.

 

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Have you considered the Wanderer as a more easily single handed and slightly smaller Wayfarer? They are a lot lighter than a Wayfarer and easily righted single handed but still have decent load carrying capacity.

You could also look at the replacement 38kg steel centreboard:

http://www.porters.org.uk/Wanderer

and a mast head float and they have outboard attachments so you can tick off a lot of the safety mitigation you are looking for.

Not sure how many are around and prices but a retrofit steel centreboard would be possible on most small dinghies if you are prepared for a bit of work strengthening the slot?

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I Will say winds over 25  singlehandedly is not good. So I sit it out until winds lay down a bit. Sailing  closer to wind has a lot to do with the tuning. Flying scot has a tuning guide. I'm a cruiser so just watch my weather. Lake Michigan coastal sailing, and larger inland reservoirs,  lakes and rivers. Yes I sail rivers alot. Flying scot carries 190sq. foot of sail and can plane out easily. Hope this helps. I been laughed at for calling myself a cruiser lol. But I don't think people understand or appreciate my unique personality.

S/V Blue Heeler  

Brian McCrary

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On 2018-01-20 at 9:04 AM, badpirate66 said:

I will say winds over 25  singlehandedly is not good. So I sit it out until winds lay down a bit.

Brian, I don't blame you. I would think that >25 knot winds would be really too much for virtually any cruising dinghy: especially singlehanded.

It's not like racing, where you might or might not dump but can at least count on rescue assistance if you capsize.

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42 minutes ago, Svanen said:
On 1/20/2018 at 9:04 AM, badpirate66 said:

I will say winds over 25  singlehandedly is not good. So I sit it out until winds lay down a bit.

Brian, I don't blame you. I would think that >25 knot winds would be really too much for virtually any cruising dinghy: especially singlehanded.

It's not like racing, where you might or might not dump but can at least count on rescue assistance if you capsize.

Nope, it shouldn't be. It's all well & good to say, "I sit it out until the wind dies down" but what if you're out sailing and the wind builds? Very common scenario. What if you're snug in a nice cove and the wind is howling BUT you have to get to work the next day? Or you're out of food?

I think that cruising entails dealing with a fair amount of rough weather, and 25 is not really very rough. Shit I've raced squirrelier boats than the Scot or the Wayfarer, with my wife who dislikes strong winds and excitement (or at least, excitement on the water), in winds approaching 40.

A cruising dinghy must have a reefable rig. Generally taking the jib off, and reefing the main. I have sailed a camp-cruise loaded Coronado 15 under jib alone in 30+ (with wife and dog plus a guitar) but that was on a long reach across mostly shallow, sheltered water (of which coastal NC has a lot). It was also several decades ago!

It's not difficult to put reefing points in an existing mainsail.

FB- Doug

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You are right. I do not have feet points yet in my Sail. I roller reef on the boom after taking loose the downhaul. Also dropping the mid boom block. Not the best way but that's what I do so far until reef points are added.  Experience and knowing the boat plays into it as well. I do what I do and others do as they do. As far as work next day well .... I guess up to you and your job. Me i just call and say I'm sailing in at some point lol.  I did get caught in a bit of weather crossing lake michigan on a 16 foot hobie cat. Destroyed the boat and I washed to shore . Scared the tar out of me. But it was an adventure to say the least.

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Just now getting caught up. @Steam Flyer, agreed... I'm sitting at anchord going on 4 weeks. My friend and I have different ideas of sailing. He's the captain and has more "experience" but basically won't sail if we have a forecast gusting over 40.

It seems almost impossible to sail WPB to PR without hitting 40 sustained, and it's mostly upwind, even with a weather window. He was encouraging me to do pay-to-play racing/training because "that's how you get experience."

I've really shifted towards an etchells at this point. I like centerboards but 70* to wind and 30' loa... I need practice more than anything. If and when I get my own, ill sail it to feel it out, then modify it for purpose, then make sure I practice being good and miserable before I set off on anything.

Premises I've gathered for this type of "sailing"

1, you will encounter winds Force 8 or higher.

2, reefing and self-steering are essential

3, you will capsize, likely in the worst of conditions (summer cruise 1964)

4, it's totally feasible, just a different type of sailing. And miserable. But I prefer misery and adventure to sitting at anchor.

And when you're alone, you can't get annoyed at other people or blame things on them. And you don't have to listen to mouth noises while they eat with headphones in.

 

There was a free etch in SF if you sailed it locally...

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Update:

Back from PR. Dreaming big, but after 5 months and little work, paying off my $400 credit card bill is even a challenge.

 

I found an etchells, disassembled and on a trailer for under $2k, but I haven't heard back.

 

The trip to PR helped confirm a lot of my ideas. 1600nm to windward wasn't terrible. We were heeling 15-30* most of the way, but we never saw gusts above 25. I had 3am-6am on watch and often was so bored I'd hand steer just to stay awake. Bioluminescent plankton almost the whole way. Maybe 12hrs of rain in 12 days.

 

I'm looking at grants, and other options. I hate sitting at anchor. It's a waste of time and money. I get the liveaboard life, but it's not practical for me. Hopefully I can get something, even if it's borrowed, and sail the bay or lake erie this summer, maybe go out around and up to NYC. Ideally looking at the Barthels next summer, but I've gotta find out if the race committee will even let an open boat into the race. If not, either run it as a bandit or go offshore.

 

Etchells is going to need heavy modding, it seems. Deeper keel, slung for blue water. Over-engineered rigging. Water tight buoyancy chambers, maybe open up the transom. It's windward capacity is the big draw. My friend's pearson did surprisingly well. With a decent breeze we could make 7.5kts holding 30* to windward. Some pounding, always heeled, but we made Culebra. 900mi on one tack, 6 days.

 

I got a potential offer to crew Liverpool to Anchorage this summer, or to crew a fishing boat up in AK but had to turn both down. Trying to keep my schedule free and open, but that's sort of expensive.

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@WGWarburton, thanks. I'd say the wanderer is a bit small, but,

I was just given am MFG Pintail. 14' loa, 6' beam. 122sf sail area...

It has potential. It's something to start with, actually, titling and registering boat and trailer are the starting points.

 

I want to get her in the water this summer, feel out the sail plan, and see about swapping mast/boom, adding a bow sprit, rigging a spinnaker, beefing the rig, adding a lead bulb to the keel, adding a float to the mast, adding water tight storage/bouyancy, repainting, re-rigging, etc.

I had to turn down a potential NWP offer, and crewing a fishing boat un AK. Might wind up out in CO this summer working at 10,000', then maybe Antarctica Oct-April, maybe. So, time is limited and the budget is still pretty tight. Been working like a dog, but only part time.

 

Things are slowly falling into place.

Anyone ever sailed an MFG Pintail? She looks broad and squatty but stable. Adding a bulb to the 4' steel centerboard and reinforcing the casw might be an order. It definitely needs sanded, filled, repainted, and a nice gelcoat. The coring should be solid, but I'll check it closer.

2018-04-12 23.04.25.jpg

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10 hours ago, iwentsailingonce said:

@WGWarburton, thanks. I'd say the wanderer is a bit small, but,

I was just given am MFG Pintail. 14' loa, 6' beam. 122sf sail area...

It has potential. It's something to start with, actually, titling and registering boat and trailer are the starting points.

 

I want to get her in the water this summer, feel out the sail plan, and see about swapping mast/boom, adding a bow sprit, rigging a spinnaker, beefing the rig, adding a lead bulb to the keel, adding a float to the mast, adding water tight storage/bouyancy, repainting, re-rigging, etc.

I had to turn down a potential NWP offer, and crewing a fishing boat un AK. Might wind up out in CO this summer working at 10,000', then maybe Antarctica Oct-April, maybe. So, time is limited and the budget is still pretty tight. Been working like a dog, but only part time.

 

Things are slowly falling into place.

Anyone ever sailed an MFG Pintail? She looks broad and squatty but stable. Adding a bulb to the 4' steel centerboard and reinforcing the casw might be an order. It definitely needs sanded, filled, repainted, and a nice gelcoat. The coring should be solid, but I'll check it closer.

2018-04-12 23.04.25.jpg

There's a reason you were given it for free. Did the person who gave it to you, hate you bitterly?

These boats are a strong contender for The Fucking Worst Boat Ever Built. Tippy and cranky, yet sluggish and uncomfortable. Heavy but also fragile. A junior sailing group I am involved with had one of these boats "in sailing condition" and I rigged it up and took it out with a fellow instructor.

An SA'er who posts under the name 'Gouvernail' (French for rudder) worked for the company that built them. He and I agree that the best use for these boats is to sled down a snowy hill, preferably into a deep ravine from which it will never emerge into the light of day.

Looks like a nice trailer though. Now you have something you can carry a real boat around on.

FB- Doug

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OK, I held off commenting, as I didn't want to rain on your parade but WTF... maybe that's not helpful. Sorry if this post comes across as self-promoting, the boasts below are intended to let you judge the value of my input, not show off.

I don't know anything about that specific design except the photo but Steam's description aligns perfectly with my first impression from the picture!  I've sailed a LOT of different dinghies over the years (I had a list, when I was in my early 20s, of about 80 different classes, between 10'6" and 26', including small cruisers and racing keelboats like the Soling, Flying 15 & Squib, and that's 30 years ago now).

 It's experience that lets you jump to a conclusion about a boat when you look at it... and that one doesn't look right to me for a self-confessed newbie.

 If that is indeed a piece of shit (as it looks to me, and Steam advises), you won't know when you are doing things right, which will slow your learning, nor will it be much fun.

 I think you would be better served by a proven design that meets your (fairly specific and not that common) needs, like the Wanderer (see summary below). TBH, I don't know if they are available in the US, I suspect not, but that's not really the point. If they aren't then there should be a local equivalent.

It's the type of boat that would serve you well...

 Obviously, I don't know much about your situation, so I may be off the mark, but I have been a dinghy instructor for about 35 years in sailing schools, council run centres and clubs and I'm actively involved with the coach steering group of the local bit of the RYA (advises on instructor training), so I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about, on this issue if not others...

Hope this helps. As always, the advice is worth what you paid for it. :-)

Cheers,

              W.

PS If you get a chance to sail a Soling someday, take it.... they are a delight.

+------------------------------
The Wanderer is a superbly designed, stable and versatile boat that has stood the test of time. Its key features are:

♦  Can be launched & recovered by one person dependent on gradient.
♦  Excellent boat to introducing those new to sailing.
♦  Highly flexible, suiting different crews; will accommodate 2-3 adults or 2 adults and 2-3 children.
♦ Good stability and can be reefed while on the water.
♦ Easily sailed single-handed.
♦  Versatile can be sailed, rowed or fitted with an outboard motor and is  equally at home racing, cruising or pottering around or perhaps doing a  spot of fishing.
♦  Easily towed by a small car.
♦  Wanderers retain their value remarkably well if looked after.
♦  Wanderers are designed for sailing on gravel pits, inshore waters or more lively estuary, coastal or inshore waters.

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@Steam Flyer, @WGWarburton,

 

Thanks for the replies, this is why I'm here.

 

SF,  I think I must have read your comment on the other thread about it. I saw mention of the sledding. I tried that in my kayak once. I'll keep it under consideration.

 

W, no worries. I think we have CL-16s and Wayfarers. After reading Ocean Crossing Wayfarer in Jan, I was like, "Why not just get a wayfarer instead of a wanderer?"

They seem like solid boats, and as Frank Dye proved, the Wayfarer can be put through a lot. These are some friends I work for on occasion and the boat was taking up space in their shop. Ideally I think an Etchells is what I'm going for, something that, if need be, can sail upwind in heavier than usual weather.

I appreciate the input, and I think the greatest piece is not knowing how it is holding me back because it's such a manatee. Likely won't be dry rolling or roll tacking with it.

I would like to build an open dinghy off an established platform that can handle things like the trans-superior, or offshore conditions. My current budget, however, is $0. If anything, the Pintail is a step above boatless, and learning it's idiosyncrasies will help prepare me for when I move to something better-suited.

I always love a good challenge. Sounds like I have a unique one. And I agree, once I actually looked at the hull, you can see how stubby the bow is, how high the freeboard is, how wide the beam is... and the trailer, no registration nor title. So right now, whatever boat is on it can't go down the road here.

W, my take on an Etchells/Soling over a W/W is their upwind performance. Or perceived performance. We sat beside one at anchor for a month and a half in West Palm Beach, FL. I just got done with a 3,000nm sail from Connecticut to Puerto Rico, even did a little dinghy sailing/rowing. I have a lot of respect for the experience. Here, though, it would seem some inexperience is also a benefit.

 

I'll make sure not to throw too much money into this hole in the water before I realize the futility. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

Thanks,

 

jf

 

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Shoulda bought the neighbor's Albacore.  Get out there, practice in it, race it, do in an all kinds of weather.

Just do it.

That  was my approach, at some point you have to quit researching and get out there.  I'm not the greatest sailor in the world, but a capable small dinghy (like an albacore) will teach you a lot about what you know, what you think you know, what you don't know, and about yourself. 

How many times can you capsize your small dinghy in 15 knot winds on the local lake until you are too exhausted to even attempt one more try to climb back in?  At that point, consider having the wind push you the 500 yards into shore slowly while you do the math of when they hypothermia gets worse than it already is?  Or, somehow summon that last burst of adrenaline, anger and complete madness that will let you haul your wet ass back into the swamped hull?  Or die out there?

These are questions that can only be answered by you, and only be answered by doing it.  You will learn that sitting in the unrelenting Missouri sun from dawn until dark in the Summer to have "fun" with only a hat as your only respite from old Sol is a stupid thing.  That and the biting black flies.  You'll be smarter next time.

Someone smarter than me said “Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.”

Get out the and do it.  It won't happen as quickly as you want it it, but have fun in the mean time.  You'll figure it out.

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This short video shows a Wayfarer (or more precisely its Canadian clone, the CL-16) being singlehanded without fuss.

Not sure that I would recommend cleating the mainsheet, though.

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