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Spawn of FrankenScot out doing a bit of testing and practice to wrap up 2017.

 

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15 hours ago, RKoch said:

Spawn of FrankenScot out doing a bit of testing and practice to wrap up 2017.

 

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Boat's looking great and the weather positively frontal.

Have a Happy New Year, all!

Stumbling

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Way more righting moment than sitting in the center hull of a TI.  Why is this race so compelling?

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10 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Way more righting moment than sitting in the center hull of a TI.  Why is this race so compelling?

1) It's a challenge. There's a variety of conditions to be expected regarding weather and water depth. It's interesting to see people's approaches to solving those challenges. Many boats, inc fast boats, can't.

2) There's also many personal challenges...lack of sleep, navigation, cold, possibly heat, and knowing when to back off the gas pedal and when to push. The great Roger Mann established himself on ECs.

3) There's few rules regarding boats, only some basic safety rules and inspection. No arbitrary ratings or handicaps at all. If you want a big ass whomper , go for it. Water ballast? No problem. Stacking sails? Knock yourself out. That fuels creativity in design.

 

Spawn usually sails just sitting on the racks (which is still equivalent to trapezing  on a boat w/o racks). The trapezes are handy for a short puff, instead of reefing. They don't do the entire race on the trapeze. And yea, righting moment allows ample sail area. Boat is designed and set up to row well too. A surprising amount of time is under oars. Designer/builder OH Rodgers  did his first EC on Spawn in '16. Afterward he was amazed at the amount of rowing they did, and the amount of hitting bottom trying to sail in the extensive shoals.

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9 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Way more righting moment than sitting in the center hull of a TI.  Why is this race so compelling?

It's interesting to me because I'm not sure I can do it. Especially not in a way that I would do it, which definitely does NOT include donning a drysuit and getting into my Adventure Island for days at a time. That sounds possible but seriously un-fun. I think there were 25 on the beach last year? Not sure what's wrong with all those people!

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It seems like majority of Hobie Tri sailors are former kayakers. So, Adventure Island is a step up in comfort. Also versatility of the boat fits well with variability of the course. 

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1 hour ago, CrazyR said:

It seems like majority of Hobie Tri sailors are former kayakers. So, Adventure Island is a step up in comfort. Also versatility of the boat fits well with variability of the course. 

I traded down from a Core Sound to a Hobie tri this year. Yes, Tom I got the drysuit.... Going to do the EC in 2019 in it. Doing another event this year instead of the EC. 

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Don't forget the beautiful campsights.  Hurricane Pass was sweet.

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11 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Don't forget the beautiful campsights.  Hurricane Pass was sweet.

Yep. For those wishing more of a cruise approach, vs 'racing', the scenery is lovely.

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2 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

The boat is still at the club so more training must be in the works.

It looks like a new code 0 in the pic, or an extensive recut of the old one. Prob still working the bugs out. Don't know if there are any hull/blade mods.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

It looks like a new code 0 in the pic, or an extensive recut of the old one. Prob still working the bugs out. Don't know if there are any hull/blade mods.

Same old Hobie blades, hull looked the same from walking past it. OH said he was going to put a skid-plate along the bottom to protect it in the shallows.

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3 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Same old Hobie blades, hull looked the same from walking past it. OH said he was going to put a skid-plate along the bottom to protect it in the shallows.

Rudders are from a Prindle 19. CB is the unballasted deeper board that they had built for Frankie. There was talk at one point of imbedding a metal rod  down leading edge and tip to take bumps on bottom. 

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18 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:
20 hours ago, RKoch said:

It looks like a new code 0 in the pic, or an extensive recut of the old one. Prob still working the bugs out. Don't know if there are any hull/blade mods.

Same old Hobie blades, hull looked the same from walking past it. OH said he was going to put a skid-plate along the bottom to protect it in the shallows.

Speed and shallow water are a bad combination, unfortunately it's one of the keys (pardon the pun) to the EC.

I would think some relatively fancy foil shapes and some strong foils would be needed; Frankie is powerful and fast. A rudder going all cavitation-like during a trapezing close reach could result in some non-hilarity ensuing.

FB- Doug

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29 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Speed and shallow water are a bad combination, unfortunately it's one of the keys (pardon the pun) to the EC.

I would think some relatively fancy foil shapes and some strong foils would be needed; Frankie is powerful and fast. A rudder going all cavitation-like during a trapezing close reach could result in some non-hilarity ensuing.

FB- Doug

Foil details:

CB is from Frankie. It's an unballasted plywood and glass board about 4-6" deeper than stock FS board. Note: the plywood is not a plank, which is the weak way of building a plywood foil. Instead, the plywood was cut into strips, which were turned 90 deg and laminated together. Much stronger, bit of a bitch to shape.

Rudders: They're from a Prindle 19 that OH was messing about with 20+ years ago (the infamous 'Junkyard Cat').  Two rudders adds weight and complexity, but there's a reason. One rudder would have to be very deep and narrow. Not only the deep draft is bad, but it puts a really high load on the rudderhead....especially when it's kicked up. Dagger rudders don't have enough area when lifted for shallow water. Rudders are probably the #1 failure for EC sailboats. With twin shallow rudders, there is much less load on the rudderheads, particularly when kicked up. Also the benefit of having an extra if one gets wiped out, although that wasn't their primary reason. The rudders are closer together than on a cat, idk if Ackerman was incorporated in the linkage. The tillers and crossbar did require a bit of experimentation to get right, as the axis are angled out instead vertical and parallel as on a cat.

The speed is good, not only for getting to Key Largo first, but also so they can be cautious and back off and still be the fastest. They tend to drop the spin or reef a bit early. They're also cautious in the shallows, but hitting bottom is pretty unavoidable. In '16 they scraped and dinged the hull in a few spots rowing out through the oyster beds after Chocko. And the lower part of CB got a bit chewed up hitting bottom multiple times crossing Florida Bay. They also hit a basking shark at speed, but idk if there was any damage.

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bump...any rumors about entrants this year...what is Randy Smyth up to ?...will the USCG let them off the beach this year ?

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There is a plan B to move the launch to another location if it appears there will be SCA conditions at the start on Saturday that would prevent launching from Ft. Desoto. I'm not privy to the details however. (The USCG doesn't want 100+ boats crossing the shipping channel in an SCA. Otherwise I don't think they care about the rest of the course.)

Randy has been seen testing his new boat for the Ultimate FL challenge. It's similar to his Scizzors tri, still based on what appears to be an A-cat hull, but better set up for paddling for the St. Marys and Suwanee River legs of that 1200 mile event. The amas appear to be surfboards instead of the seaplane sponson shaped ones he's been using. And yes it does have the hybrid wingsail rig. The chord on this year's rig appears to be a little less than the one he used last year. 

Matt Layden is returning after a long absence to do the EC in his 9' extreme sharpie Elusion. 

There is some concern for the folks going down the Wilderness Waterway in the Everglades that portions of the route are still closed due to damage from Irma. Work is underway to clear the route, however. 

I'm taking another year off, but will be at the start helping out and doing boat inspections. If you see me, say hello. 

 

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I think Smyth has some mods up his sleeve. Saw some pics on FB.  The SAists that did it before are sitting out this year.  I expect Roger Mann to do it in his Liteboat. Puma has switched from multihulls to kayak. IDK about the other St Pete sailors or the 'youngsters' from Tampa in the Prindle.  There's another Tampa guy who's making noise about doing it in his Sea Pearl...called me about helping fit a staysail. IDK if he's planning for this year or next.  Beach launch at Ft DeSoto still the plan. IDK what they'll do if small craft warnings...might be clusterfuck  like last year.

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I think Smyth has some mods up his sleeve. Saw some pics on FB.  The SAists that did it before are sitting out this year.  I expect Roger Mann to do it in his Liteboat. Puma has switched from multihulls to kayak. IDK about the other St Pete sailors or the 'youngsters' from Tampa in the Prindle.  There's another Tampa guy who's making noise about doing it in his Sea Pearl...called me about helping fit a staysail. IDK if he's planning for this year or next.  Beach launch at Ft DeSoto still the plan. IDK what they'll do if small craft warnings...might be clusterfuck  like last year.

2 out of the last 3 years have been rough financially on the fleet....I walk the beach that Friday afternoon....I don't see a list of entrants @ WT  

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Roster is here

http://www.watertribe.com/Events/ShowRosters.aspx

just choose Everglades Challenge or Ultimate Florida Challenge.

Randy Smyth is doing UFC. Spy pics show even lighter version of trimaran.

roster is big, in neighborhood of 130 boats for all three challenges, 93 just for Everglades Challenge, 7 for Ultimate Florida Challenge.

lots of small multihills, tris, beach cats, it seems like number of small sailboats is higher than normal. 

Im planning to enter on newely developed folding/inflatable baggage sized cat. It is replacement for the old one. Relatively fast, should be faster than Adventure Island, match to Weta. I’m keeping my fingers crossed with all the deadlines. 

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Thanks for the entry list, Crazy.

Theres a whole lot of beach cats in class 5, plus a handful of tris. Looks like a really strong class. 

Class 4 also has a large number of entries, though most appear to be more rowing-oriented... Sea Pearls, Drascombe Luggers, Dories, etc. On the performance end are Spawn as favorite with Dawn Patrol (Coresounds 20) close behind should Spawn break. Spawn is current mono record-holder, DP is a previous record holder. There's a passel of Coresound 17s that will most likely be fighting for 3rd., possibly with the Dovekie.  I do see Zero The Hero signed up in his Nomad, who will likely beat the other small sailboats and possibly knock off a few CS 17s. 

I sure hope weather is favorable for an on-schedule beach launch from Ft DeSoto. 

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ZTH is going with his 15 year old son. I don't know if they are going to push hard or just do a cruise. Either way is a valid way to do the event.

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I'd love to see Half Baked /Dovekie put a more efficient rig in the boat...ie ..Lightning

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Good to hear Matt (Wizard?) is back. I worked with him in an office at one time and he would paddle something like 5 miles to work. He had the wheels for the portage through Ga back to the Gulf and could get to within a few blocks of out office via a drainage ditch. He would fold the wheels down and come jogging into our parking lot with his rig and park it next to the Boss's big Mercedes Benz. What a contrast! Then he would come into the office (Yacht Design firm) in his sweat suit and wet neoprene slippers squeaking with every step. One day the boss told him to park his little rowboat well away from his car and change into appropriate office attire. Last we saw of Matt in the office and he worked from home remotely after that.

    We all at the office did take the afternoon off and got out in a boat to meet Matt as he made his way North in the next years race. The Coast Guard was trying to track him down (hard to do with a 11'er) and keep him from going out of the ICW to the Gulf. Matt made good time in the ICW during the day but would go out in the evening for 'sea room' and still make good time under autopilot and get some sleep while the Gulf Stream carried him north. When he went up the river in Ga and then started his 'portage' he got pulled over by some redneck Ga State Troopers who had a hard time accepting his story that he was 'circumnavigating' Florida in his contraption. 

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Layden must be an interesting cat. His boats look simple and somewhat crude even, but that hides a surprising amount of thought and innovation in the design. Def an outside the box thinker. The boat he's sailing is only 9', so it's unlikely he'll be an early finisher. The EC has evolved a bunch since he won...many boats sail 24/7 now. But he will finish. 

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Koch,

    Matt marches (paddles) to his own drummer that is for sure. Funny thing is that he can paddle that little 9'er standing up like a SUP with little effort. His trick is to swap out from rowing conventionally sitting down, to standing as mentioned with the added impetus that he gets by rocking the boat side to side with his feet when standing which in rythym with his paddle strokes get his 'chine runners' working at adding to the fwd drive. I think I can find a video of him doing this unique technique.

 

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The other thing about Matt is that he's one tough dude. He can go with very little sleep  and can keep going longer than just about anyone. He's also really smart about the course and always seems to know the way to use even adverse winds and tides to his advantage. I raced against him in the 2012 UM, him in an 8' pram and me in my 17' Core Sound. We both were one of three finishers that year out of 15. But he beat me by 18 hours on a 60 mile course.  He knew how to get out of the worst of the 25 knot headwinds and nasty chop going down Sarasota Bay while I killed myself bashing into it.  He still owns the second and third fastest times for a solo racer in Class 4, none of them in a boat more than 14' long. It took another tough as nails competitor in 21'er  and perfect conditions to beat his best time of 3 days 9 hours. 

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40 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Layden must be an interesting cat. His boats look simple and somewhat crude even, but that hides a surprising amount of thought and innovation in the design. Def an outside the box thinker. The boat he's sailing is only 9', so it's unlikely he'll be an early finisher. The EC has evolved a bunch since he won...many boats sail 24/7 now. But he will finish. 

Matt sails same boat he used in 2006 Ultimate Florida Challenge. His 2006 time for EC part is still best solo class 4 time standing at 3 days and 4 hours. Matt’s best time logged in UF records. However he has the best solo monohull sailboat time for the course. 

I’m pretty sure Matt will be an early one. 

He is called Wizard for a reason.

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Thanks for that. I missed that one in UF records. One correction: Jarhead set the record in 2013 at 2 days 23:45. But anything under 3.5 days is pretty darn fast for a two-person monohull challenge, and screechingly fast for someone going solo. Matt positively owns the solo monohull category. 

 

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1 minute ago, MisterMoon said:

Thanks for that. I missed that one in UF records. One correction: Jarhead set the record in 2013 at 2 days 23:45. But anything under 3.5 days is pretty darn fast for a two-person monohull challenge, and screechingly fast for someone going solo. Matt positively owns the solo monohull category. 

 

Thanks for that one:) I missed Jarheads best time apparently.

 

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Spawn update. Since they're going double-handed this year, they've fitted water ballast as was the original plan before three crew were allowed. Amy explains in her blog, includes a short video.

 http://www.amysmithlinton.com/blog/everglades-challenge-water-ballast

picture from Amy Linton..

http://www.amysmithlinton.com/blog/everglades-challenge-water-ballast#PhotoSwipe1518477176366

 

 

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I'm curious how the solo Laser2 with a rowing station will do this year.

2 crew went around Vancouver Island in one a few years back.

They get some great names for tribe members, like Admiral Snackbar, thumbs up mister...

Looking forward to following the race again and fair winds to the SA'ers entered...

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On February 12, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Norse Horse said:

I'm curious how the solo Laser2 with a rowing station will do this year.

2 crew went around Vancouver Island in one a few years back.

They get some great names for tribe members, like Admiral Snackbar, thumbs up mister...

Looking forward to following the race again and fair winds to the SA'ers entered...

SAist Zero The Hero is doing it with his teenage son on a Nomad. He's having difficulty packing enough food.

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

SAist Zero The Hero is doing it with his teenage son on a Nomad. He's having difficulty packing enough food.

I saw his pile of food on FB and wondered if he remembers that there are restaurants along the route.

Are you going to Fort Desoto this year?

My newest powerboat is able to catch the fast ones out in the Gulf so I might try to do that it the weather looks like it would be fun.

I want to see Synergy under way. Catching more than a glimpse of Randy under way pretty much requires a fast powerboat that can go in the Gulf. And probably means missing the start and burning a pretty large amount of fuel.

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Myself, father, and brother and niece went out in my bothers boat in 2016. Left Venice about noon in Gulf, caught the leading sailboats going in Stump Pass. Randy and Tornado went thru in light air, Spawn had a bit of seabreeze, we had to haul ass to keep up and get pics. We couldn't keep up with leaders after CP1 b/c of no wake areas in ICW. Headed back to Venice via ICW, encountered several small sailboats on inside route, and many clumps of paddlers traveling together. They all got a cheer or thumbs up. We had a good time spectating...yes, burned a lot fuel (twin OBs on a 25'er). In and around Stump Pass is a good place for spectating...good time is early aft to dusk.

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I'll check out the fleet Friday afternoon...then watch them Sat AM round Bean Point on Anna Maria~~~~

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The 10 day weather forecast has finally included the start 3 March....it appears a mild cold front will have past the evening of 2 March....should be a beautiful sail down the coast

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The long range GFS looks nice for the start with ENE winds around 10 knots. Later Saturday and Sunday look more challenging with very light southerlies, so get ready to row boys. Sunday evening has the wind building to 9-12 from the west and the from the NW by Monday. Northerlies in the 10-15 knot range continue through Wednesday. My advice is as always: get south as fast you can! But I think it will be tough to get to Choko on Sunday afternoon like we did in 2016.  

This is a better looking forecast than the one from earlier this week that showed 25+ knot NW winds starting Monday night.

I'll see some of you on the beach on Friday. Doing inspections this year, sitting out the race. 

 

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I was going to bump this thread if no one else hand not responded.

Unfortunately, this year I am 8 timezones to the East of Tampa Bay, and will be unable to swing by to see the boats on the beach.   I will be watching from the digital world, next weekend.

If all goes well, I will be back by the end of the year and hopefully, on the starting line for 2019 in Class 4.

- Stumbling

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3 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

The long range GFS looks nice for the start with ENE winds around 10 knots. Later Saturday and Sunday look more challenging with very light southerlies, so get ready to row boys. Sunday evening has the wind building to 9-12 from the west and the from the NW by Monday. Northerlies in the 10-15 knot range continue through Wednesday. My advice is as always: get south as fast you can! But I think it will be tough to get to Choko on Sunday afternoon like we did in 2016.  

This is a better looking forecast than the one from earlier this week that showed 25+ knot NW winds starting Monday night.

I'll see some of you on the beach on Friday. Doing inspections this year, sitting out the race. 

 

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

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4 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

often in those conditions  ghosts of breeze can be found very near shore...very near

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23 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

In 2014, the wind shut down every night for a couple hours. At one point about 5 miles off the Everglades we got tired of the slatting sails so we lowered them and just drifted while we slept. Then on Thursday afternoon a huge line of Tstorms came through and blew the oysters off the rocks for a couple of days. We were finished before then so we missed out on the sleigh ride across FL Bay. We never reefed during the whole 2014 EC, unlike 2012 and 2016 where I spent a good part of it double reefed and wishing for a third. 

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4 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

often in those conditions  ghosts of breeze can be found very near shore...very near

Yep. I was calling tactics in StP-Boca-StP race in '87 on a 10 yo Holland 40. We went right in next to New Pass, picked up the light easterly, and passed all the new 1- tons that started 20 min ahead. Had done it about 10 years earlier in a StP-FtM Beach FORA race in a Morgan 27. Was first to finish. Old school shit.

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Just donated a 10' fg tube to a couple of EC guys for a trailer sail storage tube for their cat. Win-win...I get it out of my back yard, they get free equip storage.

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15 hours ago, RKoch said:

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

There's a weather factor that professional forecasters don't know about yet. Me!

I'm planning on chasing the sailboats out in the Gulf and I'm planning on bringing fishing rods. Planning to bring a smallish powerboat out into the Gulf is a known cause of higher winds, as is any plan involving fishing.

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20 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

often in those conditions  ghosts of breeze can be found very near shore...very near

I had the wonderful fun of beating,  boat for boat, the whole hot shot IOR fleet, including 2 tonners, with a Morgan 24 in a FORA race at Treasure Island in the late 70s.   Last leg was long, and a couple of miles offshore.   The wind turned off late morning and we went to the surf line on the beach.   Did a slow spinnaker reach around the whole fleet and then rode the fill in of a light westerly out to the finish line.   The race committee thought we had dropped out and were joking about calling for a finish.

I learned the meaning of patience crewing on that boat, but we were always trouble from behind for the rest of the MORC fleet.

- Stumbling

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Dead low tide at the start...cool upper 50's....10 mph + -  northerly sectors...sunny day...

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Perfect forecast for cruising, maybe not record breaking though.  Should make for a high percentage of finishers.

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Sunday morning will be in low 50's central coast....that indicates a strong front...so maybe with typical winds...20 + - northerly's then going NE -E

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9 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

WindyTV is calling for 64 deg. and 19 knts. at 7:00.

Sat morning ?....sheet...that'll be a nogo....incoming tide same as 3 years ago

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10 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Sat morning ?....sheet...that'll be a nogo....incoming tide same as 3 years ago

I thought we were to never speak of 2015 again?

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2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I thought we were to never speak of 2015 again?

That was my first look at EC on the beach...I had an old friend from Miami coming up to do the race for the first time....I was shocked at some of the boats. I listened in on a few "safety inspections"...and again my eyes rolled as the skipper ,at least the few I heard, was not really prepared with everything laid out to show as the inspector asked to see. I remember one case where the inspector took the persons word for a piece of equipment as he was digging about for. I went back to watch the start the next morning...I was pretty chilled by the start and left soon after...leaving I passed an ambulance speeding towards the beach...I thought oh some one cut their foot and didn't give it another thought until going over the Skyway and seeing a USCG 87' hauling azz under me....

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44 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:
2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I thought we were to never speak of 2015 again?

That was my first look at EC on the beach...I had an old friend from Miami coming up to do the race for the first time....I was shocked at some of the boats. I listened in on a few "safety inspections"...and again my eyes rolled as the skipper ,at least the few I heard, was not really prepared with everything laid out to show as the inspector asked to see. I remember one case where the inspector took the persons word for a piece of equipment as he was digging about for. I went back to watch the start the next morning...I was pretty chilled by the start and left soon after...leaving I passed an ambulance speeding towards the beach...I thought oh some one cut their foot and didn't give it another thought until going over the Skyway and seeing a USCG 87' hauling azz under me....

Mistakes of the past.......

The inspectors have limited time but another issue IMHO is that the organizers are oriented much more toward kayaks than any other kind of boat. DOn't really know or care much about them; although I give props for letting others play in their game. But this kind of event attracts people who have a less-than-practical approach. Before turning people loose on the full EC, newbies should have to do a qualifying trip which would include having their boat capsized in deep water, and they have to right it and continue. The times I've been down there, some of the boats were really inappropriate and poorly prepared. But it can't be a subjective judgement.

FB- Doug

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18 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Mistakes of the past.......

The inspectors have limited time but another issue IMHO is that the organizers are oriented much more toward kayaks than any other kind of boat. DOn't really know or care much about them; although I give props for letting others play in their game. But this kind of event attracts people who have a less-than-practical approach. Before turning people loose on the full EC, newbies should have to do a qualifying trip which would include having their boat capsized in deep water, and they have to right it and continue. The times I've been down there, some of the boats were really inappropriate and poorly prepared. But it can't be a subjective judgement.

FB- Doug

I think the Water Tribe has tightened up much since 2015...I think I read where righting a turned hull can be asked to be demonstrated before the event.....that and the 2015 fiasco  did scare off many of the types that had entered unprepared in 2015...the types that watch previous EC Youtubes showing fun ..fun..fun...the beach in 2016 & 2017   had no boats looking like the hand full of  rag tags ill prepared in 2015....I'll be there on Friday again walking and talking

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Last year things seemed more tight than before and with the high winds it was scrubbed before the start. Anyone leaving the beach would be disqualified from the event.

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The entry rules only specify that you be an 'expert' in your craft, not what constitutes that. In my observations, there's a handful of sailors who are far from it. Just looking at their boat, how gear is stowed (or not). I wish there was a way to filter them out until they were better prepared...but I'm not running the show.  As a group, the yakkers seem a bit better prepared, but I'm not expert enough to judge them.

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41 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The entry rules only specify that you be an 'expert' in your craft, not what constitutes that. In my observations, there's a handful of sailors who are far from it. Just looking at their boat, how gear is stowed (or not). I wish there was a way to filter them out until they were better prepared...but I'm not running the show.  As a group, the yakkers seem a bit better prepared, but I'm not expert enough to judge them.

Most folks who do adventure style kayaking in the EC have done quite a bit of it before going into it.   Prep work is not that much more beyond what they were already doing.   Also, there is a lot written about kayak adventuring, not so much about small sailboat adventuring (besides Small Craft Advisor.)   Lack of general knowledge would result in wildly unprepared vehicles, people, expectations, etc.

-Stumbling

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Been raining all day in Atlanta. Looks like that front will move through the area prior to the EC start.

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1 hour ago, stumblingthunder said:

Most folks who do adventure style kayaking in the EC have done quite a bit of it before going into it.   Prep work is not that much more beyond what they were already doing.   Also, there is a lot written about kayak adventuring, not so much about small sailboat adventuring (besides Small Craft Advisor.)   Lack of general knowledge would result in wildly unprepared vehicles, people, expectations, etc.

-Stumbling

Good points, Stumbling. I know nothing about the kayak scene. I think your point about lack of general knowledge in small sailboat adventuring is valid. EC and R2A are breaking new ground there.

Linton called yesterday eve, mothies wondering why I wasn't at their cookout. I'd completely forgotten the day! Grabbed a bottle of rum and went to hang out. Jeff said he's ready to go for EC...gonna step the mast and do a final inspection during the week. Ballast tanks hold 400# when topped up, but he doesn't think they'll be able to fill them that much underway. He's expecting light air and a lot of rowing, similar to '14.

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29 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Good points, Stumbling. I know nothing about the kayak scene. I think your point about lack of general knowledge in small sailboat adventuring is valid. EC and R2A are breaking new ground there.

Linton called yesterday eve, mothies wondering why I wasn't at their cookout. I'd completely forgotten the day! Grabbed a bottle of rum and went to hang out. Jeff said he's ready to go for EC...gonna step the mast and do a final inspection during the week. Ballast tanks hold 400# when topped up, but he doesn't think they'll be able to fill them that much underway. He's expecting light air and a lot of rowing, similar to '14.

I saw where they are using a manual bilge pump to fill the ballast tanks....do rules allow for 12volt battery to power a electric bilge pump ?

 

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Electric bilge pumps are ok. The rules do say that you can't rely only on the electric for dewatering the hull in swamping so you better have a bucket too. 

 

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29 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I saw where they are using a manual bilge pump to fill the ballast tanks....do rules allow for 12volt battery to power a electric bilge pump ?

 

I do not know. It's not specifically mentioned, so it's up to Chiefs whim.  I suspect an electric bilge pump may be permitted, but an electric ballast pump not. Just a guess. 

Edit: Moonman beat me to it. He's more familiar with the rules than I.

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51 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

Electric bilge pumps are ok. The rules do say that you can't rely only on the electric for dewatering the hull in swamping so you better have a bucket too. 

 

hmm rely...does that mean it can not be the sole dewatering device....or not allowed at all ?....my question was in the context of moving water ballast from one tank to another....

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4 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

hmm rely...does that mean it can not be the sole dewatering device....or not allowed at all ?....my question was in the context of moving water ballast from one tank to another....

My hunch is an electric ballast pump wouldn't be permitted. I don't think anyone has showed up with one to test the legality.

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2 minutes ago, RKoch said:

My hunch is an electric ballast pump wouldn't be permitted. I don't think anyone has showed up with one to test the legality.

in 2015 there was a boat with solar cells and a solar powered engine that was legal....I don't know if it was a special class or a general allowance...the EC boat I was designing in my mind after first seeing the event in 2015 would have had water ballast...I had a serious medical issue pop up only weeks later that took all my focus for a year...I still think about building the boat...

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30 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

in 2015 there was a boat with solar cells and a solar powered engine that was legal....I don't know if it was a special class or a general allowance...the EC boat I was designing in my mind after first seeing the event in 2015 would have had water ballast...I had a serious medical issue pop up only weeks later that took all my focus for a year...I still think about building the boat...

A special class was created for the solar boats. That (electric motor) wouldn't be permitted in the other classes. AFAIK a solar panel is permitted In all the classes for charging devices, running lights, etc. The key terminology is 'human or wind-powered'. 

 

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I don't see an issue with an electric bilge pump that can be used to pump ballast. I don't see it in any different light than a tiller pilot, and people have those all the time.  As long as it doesn't provide propulsion, it's OK. 

The rules say "If your bailer is electric, you must also have a manual bailer suitable for your boat."

I'm one of the inspectors this weekend. If someone has an electric bilge pump, I won't say anything as long as they have a bucket lashed aboard somewhere. 

This event has a "run what you brung" ethos and there's all kinds of room for innovation without penalty. To some extent, that's the point. 

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9 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

I don't see an issue with an electric bilge pump that can be used to pump ballast. I don't see it in any different light than a tiller pilot, and people have those all the time.  As long as it doesn't provide propulsion, it's OK. 

But ballast does allow for propulsion, if not providing it directly.

I'd want a manual pump just because I expect electric ones to fail.

Whatever, the weird rules and the ways people solve them are what first attracted me to this event. I went specifically to see Sizzor.

I managed to find the boat just before 7:00. So I saw it VERY briefly and leaving.

I did manage to get a better look in 2014 but he was already depowering, had the amas perpendicular, and was getting ready to drop sails and paddle into CP1.

sizzor-icw.jpg

I have since determined that the only way to actually see Randy on his boat and racing is to be able to catch him in the Gulf and that's exactly what I intend to do on Saturday. Different boat this time but I'm just as curious about Synergy as I was about Sizzor.

It's not just the high performance solutions that are interesting. My second favorite answer to the problem is the SCAMP.

I have paddled kayaks for a long time and just don't get why anyone would want to paddle that far, that fast. But the paddlers are interesting too. I laughed at those who thought they could do it on an SUP, including Shane Perrin. I didn't count on a fucker who was crazy enough to fall asleep on his feet TWICE while paddling, get to Key Largo, and think continuing to Key West was a good idea. But I do love the fact that the EC attracts fuckers who are that crazy.

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In 2016 we caught up with Randy a mile or so north of Stump Pass. The Toronado was a few miles behind him. It was pretty light air at the moment, they were just ghosting along at several knots. Didn't get to see him powered up. Fun part was that the sea breeze had kicked up when Spawn arrived. They were hauling ass downwind under the big kite. A bit of a rough ride on a plane in a powerboat to keep up with them. 

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Randy will probably have stealth cloaking tech this year so you may not see him at all!

Matt reminds me of the old saying 

Image result for an enigma wrapped in a paradox

Something like that, you know what I mean...

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3 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Randy will probably have stealth cloaking tech this year so you may not see him at all!

I have noticed in years past that his SPOT devices are more failure prone than anyone else's for some strange reason.

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Team Moko Jumbie (Prindle 19) was out yesterday, they've finally sealed all the little nagging leaks. Bone dry! They stopped this aft to pick up a trailer sail tube I had laying out back. 

 

image.jpeg

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13 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Randy will probably have stealth cloaking tech this year so you may not see him at all!

Matt reminds me of the old saying 

Image result for an enigma wrapped in a paradox

Something like that, you know what I mean...

Mmmm, I thought that was Wizard's (Matt Layden) schtick?

- Stumbling

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7 hours ago, RKoch said:

Team Moko Jumbie (Prindle 19) was out yesterday, they've finally sealed all the little nagging leaks. Bone dry! They stopped this aft to pick up a trailer sail tube I had laying out back. 

 

image.jpeg

Go Team Moko Jumbie!

- Stumbling

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We also got a local guy to Austin on his way to attempt this in a homemade 20' tri using A-cat hulls. He should arrive tomorrow eve and can't wait to follow him and everyone else along this race!! Best race of year!!

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20 hours ago, RKoch said:

Team Moko Jumbie (Prindle 19) was out yesterday, they've finally sealed all the little nagging leaks. Bone dry! They stopped this aft to pick up a trailer sail tube I had laying out back. 

 

image.jpeg

Say hi to Tony for me. 

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4 hours ago, DaveK said:

We also got a local guy to Austin on his way to attempt this in a homemade 20' tri using A-cat hulls. He should arrive tomorrow eve and can't wait to follow him and everyone else along this race!! Best race of year!!

What's his Tribe name? If he doesn't break anything, the boat is probably fast enough that I'll see him Saturday. I'll be around Stump Pass/CP1 until an hour or so before sunset.

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2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

What's his Tribe name? If he doesn't break anything, the boat is probably fast enough that I'll see him Saturday. I'll be around Stump Pass/CP1 until an hour or so before sunset.

That might be the boat the Moko Jumbie guys were telling me about. 15' beam...there was some concern about getting in and out some of the CPs.

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15 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

What's his Tribe name? If he doesn't break anything, the boat is probably fast enough that I'll see him Saturday. I'll be around Stump Pass/CP1 until an hour or so before sunset.

Archangel

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I figure the Tribe will have started gathering today at Ft. Desoto.

Who's shown up and what surprises have been revealed?

- Stumbling

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My guy was moving cars and trailer to key largo today. 10 hour round trip so not much else for them to do. Winds don't look bad but not really stellar to have a DDW run. Looks pretty much out of the north and then rotating eastward which seems even worse really but perhaps better as an offshore reaching wind. I wanted to hear what Mark thought about Florida Bay but he said he wouldn't touch it without a westerly breeze.

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On Windy, winds look very favorable the first 24-28 hours. Looks like Florida Bay might shut down (no wind) late Sunday morning. 

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5 minutes ago, RKoch said:

On Windy, winds look very favorable the first 24-28 hours. Looks like Florida Bay might shut down (no wind) late Sunday morning. 

 

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On 2/27/2018 at 9:52 PM, RKoch said:

That might be the boat the Moko Jumbie guys were telling me about. 15' beam...there was some concern about getting in and out some of the CPs.

I heard from an extremely credible source they drove down to cape haze and dicovered they would not have a problem. A 15' beam might be a bit unwieldy,but there's plenty of room to turn around.  

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