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Spawn got back by Moko in the winding channel inside the pass.  Swampie is actually south of the checkpoint, they'll have to go close hauled to get there. IDK why they passed Cape Romano so wide...they're way outside the shoals.  Spawn and Moko should have a beam reach most of the way. They are all about 15 mi from the CP.

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Swampie appears to have really fucked up. They missed Indian Key Pass into Choko Bay. They have to sail 15 mi at 65 deg to get there. Moko J has to sail 12 mi at 115 deg to get there.

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Moko has entered Indian Key Pass. They might get in before the max ebb, but they'll still have to make dozens of tacks. Swamp Monkee was so far south they couldn't lay it, they're beating upwind from several miles out just to get there. Spawn is back underway, they might get there ahead of Swampie. 

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I saw that Spawn is moving.   Given how long they were on the beach, I am leaning much more towards your theory of rudder damage.    I don't know if they carry a a spare blade or rudder assembly, but that would be the estimated time I would think it would take to swap the rudders with each other.   I bet that the Stump Pass run damaged the port rudder, and this being one long port tack, probably showed signs of letting go between Naples and Marco, thus taking the foot off the accelerator.   RKoch, do you know if they carry a spare rudder/blade, besides what is mounted on the transom?

Swampy is just sailing off the edge of the Earth.  I would not be surprised if it is either a waypoint whoopsie or that the Naviguesser has astral projected to another planet.   I have not detected that they have changed to upwind mode to get to Choco.

 

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From FB:

Quote

If there's anybody that can pick up SewSew at the Ft. FatGrifter Coast Guard station please private message me.

Apparently someone is already going to get him. The comments say only that he is OK and the boat is "unknown."

(Slightly edited due to SA filter)

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I know what this is: ridiculously overpowered. And FAST.

I managed to get two pictures. I thought I had plenty of time to get in his way but he blew by quickly. Pursuing him into the breakers at his speed was out of the question. Took a wave over the stern learning that one.

SpawnStump.jpg

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Hobie Tiger approaching Stump Pass. He went wide into the main channel and it was darn rough out there and Spawn was heading toward the inside swash channel so I didn't have time or inclination to get all that close.

HobieTigerStump.jpg

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25 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Someone's going to have to tell me who/what this is.

BluSpinStump.jpg

Swampmonkee and Chainsaw’s Tornado. 

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1 hour ago, stumblingthunder said:

I saw that Spawn is moving.   Given how long they were on the beach, I am leaning much more towards your theory of rudder damage.    I don't know if they carry a a spare blade or rudder assembly, but that would be the estimated time I would think it would take to swap the rudders with each other.   I bet that the Stump Pass run damaged the port rudder, and this being one long port tack, probably showed signs of letting go between Naples and Marco, thus taking the foot off the accelerator.   RKoch, do you know if they carry a spare rudder/blade, besides what is mounted on the transom?

Swampy is just sailing off the edge of the Earth.  I would not be surprised if it is either a waypoint whoopsie or that the Naviguesser has astral projected to another planet.   I have not detected that they have changed to upwind mode to get to Choco.

 

I was standing right there at stump when they came through. I’m pretty sure they didn’t hit anything.  

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When we got to Stump Pass yesterday about an hour before Randy came through, there was a bit of a swell running but was reasonably smooth. By the time folks started coming in the wind had shifted NW and built a little bit  and it got pretty rough. I was glad not to be on Toms boat offshore. 

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8 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

When we got to Stump Pass yesterday about an hour before Randy came through, there was a bit of a swell running but was reasonably smooth. By the time folks started coming in the wind had shifted NW and built a little bit  and it got pretty rough. I was glad not to be on Toms boat offshore. 

Hee hee. Smart man. My wife was wishing to be on shore. I was surprised by how ugly it got. We had time to go watch more boats in the Gulf but went fishing instead. One undersized redfish and a tiny snook. Beats capsizing our boat in the pass!

Here's Sew Sew just before he turned into the Stump Pass main channel. My wife shot a good video which is on FB now but I don't feel like putting it on Vimeo right now.

SynergyOutsideStump.jpg

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21 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

I was standing right there at stump when they came through. I’m pretty sure they didn’t hit anything.  

Those not on FB are missing out. Moon's video shows Spawn almost losing it just a few feet off the beach. Yikes.

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5 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Those not on FB are missing out. Moon's video shows Spawn almost losing it just a few feet off the beach. Yikes.

What is the page? I have searched but have not found this.

 

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5 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

What is the page? I have searched but have not found this.

 

I put it on the watertribe fb this morning. It had been on my personal page only before then. 

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The WaterTribe always seems to bring interesting weather.

For weeks we've had the same weather every day: lows in the 60's, highs near 90, some flavor of E wind or other.

40 degrees and blowing out of the N right now. I didn't bring my orchids inside because, you know, it's March! Some won't be happy.

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7 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

I sent you a friend request. 

Thanks, good vid. Looks like a hiking stick has broken.

edit: saw pics of Moko at Chokoloski posted a few minutes ago.

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Wizard's latest magic trick is a great one. He made JF Bedard's River of Grass look HUGE! Swiped from FB.

WizardRoG.jpg

Edit for those who don't follow this stuff: that would have been taken shortly after the start. The yellow things are inflatable rollers used to push the boat off the beach. Presumably, Wizard simply levitated his boat into the water.

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2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I know what this is: ridiculously overpowered. And FAST.

I managed to get two pictures. I thought I had plenty of time to get in his way but he blew by quickly. Pursuing him into the breakers at his speed was out of the question. Took a wave over the stern learning that one.

SpawnStump.jpg

What is the long pole looking thing hanging over the transom ?

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1 minute ago, SailBlueH2O said:

What is the long pole looking thing hanging over the transom ?

Probably the tiller extension for the stbd side.

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I keep getting a runtime error on the tracking map! Anyone else having this problem?

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I got it to work. It appears my guy, Archangel, is the solo lead boat just behind swampmonkee. They are approaching Everglades City. Is that CP2?

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Just now, ~HHN92~ said:

From Spawn's SPOT tracker it looks like they may be spending so time there, possibly repairs?

or regroup ...those guys have been working hard with no sleep....get things together for the remaining race...

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A red cat went by our condo on Bonita Beach at 7am sunday morning...I have not seen any other boats

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38 minutes ago, DaveK said:

I got it to work. It appears my guy, Archangel, is the solo lead boat just behind swampmonkee. They are approaching Everglades City. Is that CP2?

Checkpoint is on Chokoloskee Island in south corner of the bay. Bay is extremely shallow, approach is to sail all the way in and then hug the shore to the island. Getting in is relatively easy via deep and well marked Indian Key pass. Getting out can be trickier. 

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Sounds like the guys on Spawn had an interesting night. Posted on the WT forum:

Quote

TwoBeers and Moresailesed in CP2 at 0745.  Headed back out already.  Flipped twice last night, lost all their beer and some water.

I guess that masthead float was a good idea.

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two more sailboats going by but they are way out there....one has a yellow/green spinnaker? and the other one  is orange/yellow spinnaker and about 1/4 mile ahead...going south

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9 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Sounds like the guys on Spawn had an interesting night. Posted on the WT forum:

I guess that masthead float was a good idea.

So they had to get more beer before proceeding. Wow, must have been a hairy night.

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Meanwhile, back in the pack, Wizard is most of the way down Pine Island Sound, ahead of RoG and ZTH's Nomad. That's a pretty good magic trick too.

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OK, just compared the latest SPOT locations and Moko looks to be ahead. Moko and Spawn are probably in sight of each other and match racing down the coast.

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5 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I know what this is: ridiculously overpowered. And FAST.

I managed to get two pictures. I thought I had plenty of time to get in his way but he blew by quickly. Pursuing him into the breakers at his speed was out of the question. Took a wave over the stern learning that one.

SpawnStump.jpg

Shhh!!!! That is the super secret shunting prodder.   The boat is actually an ama'less proa and they can go into scow mode by shunting the asym to that instead of jibing!

- Stumbling

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3 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Wizard's latest magic trick is a great one. He made JF Bedard's River of Grass look HUGE! Swiped from FB.

WizardRoG.jpg

Edit for those who don't follow this stuff: that would have been taken shortly after the start. The yellow things are inflatable rollers used to push the boat off the beach. Presumably, Wizard simply levitated his boat into the water.

Its amazing how small Enigma is.   Even with the benefit of being perspective-wise, closer to the cameraman, which should help make the boat look bigger, it looks like a model of a boat and not a man carrying vessel!

- Stumbling

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I finally got a refresh on the Watertribe tracker for the whole field.   There is a 4 minute time difference in the reported spots for Moko and Spawn.   It looks like Moko has stretched out in front of Spawn, I'm guessing around 8-10 miles?

 

Screen Shot 2018-03-04 at 9.06.44 PM.png

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9 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

I finally got a refresh on the Watertribe tracker for the whole field.   There is a 4 minute time difference in the reported spots for Moko and Spawn.   It looks like Moko has stretched out in front of Spawn, I'm guessing around 8-10 miles?

 

Screen Shot 2018-03-04 at 9.06.44 PM.png

That's probably about right. I'll plot the positions and check. Moko got to CP2 at 0645, Spawn at 0745, both left immediately. That's the difference. If it gets light, Spawn rows at 3 kn, Moko doesn't row.

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8.4 miles ahead.

i think the lead 'stretching' is just that they were going slow picking their way out among the oyster bars. Now in open water faster. They're an hour ahead.

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9 minutes ago, RKoch said:

8.4 miles ahead.

i think the lead 'stretching' is just that they were going slow picking their way out among the oyster bars. Now in open water faster. They're an hour ahead.

Sounds right to me.

I checked the forecast for the rest of the day and over night.   Looks to remain NNE for a while, but seems to be over-estimating the real wind strength.   NOAA is calling for 15-20.  Both would be well over 12 knots average if it were 15-20 out there right now.

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23 minutes ago, RKoch said:

That's probably about right. I'll plot the positions and check. Moko got to CP2 at 0645, Spawn at 0745, both left immediately. That's the difference. If it gets light, Spawn rows at 3 kn, Moko doesn't row.

Moko has paddles onboard, not sure about rowing, but they can paddle.

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It will be interesting to see which route they choose to go from Flamingo to the finish.     Play it safe by going the long way or the direct route and run the risk of being headed out of the narrow channels, should the wind get some more East in it.

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10 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Moko has paddles onboard, not sure about rowing, but they can paddle.

Well, they won't paddle far or for long. 

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3 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Windyty forecast the breeze shutting down all afternoon in Fl Bay.

I have not played with that service.   Do you find it to be more accurate than NOAA and the commercial websites?

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WindyTv is pretty good, I work it with iWindsurf and others to get a good look at the trends. Guesstimating using Google Earth from their last ping on the tracker I have Moko 7.5 miles ahead of Spawn. Florida Bay will be the true test depending on which route they choose.

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Moko did not do any scouting. I talked to CCock Monday and we talked about that. They were 99% sure they were going to take the long southern rim route. Spawn very possibly will attempt the direct route.

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4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Sounds like the guys on Spawn had an interesting night. Posted on the WT forum:

I guess that masthead float was a good idea.

Originally they didn't need it. With the water ballast tanks added, the leeward empty one made the boat float higher when capsized, causing it to turtle.

Here is pre-water ballast. I'd made up drawings for cockpit layout on the FrankenScot that Jeff didn't use (didn't want the weight). They did use it on Spawn. There is a bulkhead at the mast, then a raised floor back to aft end of CB trunk. The boat sits lower in water when capsized than side tanks, but when righted the water runs out CB trunk and aft section where it will drain. Bow stays up so the boat can be sailed after righting, which helps get water out.

image.jpeg

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Appears that Swamp Monkey and Chainsaw returned to Choko? Issues? The lead boats tracker has not updated, but Spawn is moving nicely right along the shore. When are you going to head back out Archangel? Well done on the solo effort so far! 

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26 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Originally they didn't need it. With the water ballast tanks added, the leeward empty one made the boat float higher when capsized, causing it to turtle.

Here is pre-water ballast. I'd made up drawings for cockpit layout on the FrankenScot that Jeff didn't use (didn't want the weight). They did use it on Spawn. There is a bulkhead at the mast, then a raised floor back to aft end of CB trunk. The boat sits lower in water when capsized than side tanks, but when righted the water runs out CB trunk and aft section where it will drain. Bow stays up so the boat can be sailed after righting, which helps get water out.

image.jpeg

Masthead float seems like wise insurance for an event like this...not just for righting purposes...keeping the masthead from getting hung up in the bottom and damaging the rig righting the boat

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Looks like the lead solo sailor is back on the course and back in open water according to latest Race Owl tracker. Sail fast and stay well Archangel

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50 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Moko did not do any scouting. I talked to CCock Monday and we talked about that. They were 99% sure they were going to take the long southern rim route. Spawn very possibly will attempt the direct route.

Is it possible to navigate the shallows from CP3 to Key Largo - shortest distance? Is there a known channel? What are typical depths and how much does the tide influence ones options? Looks like the leader is almost to the Everglades CP

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11 minutes ago, trimejust4fun said:

Is it possible to navigate the shallows from CP3 to Key Largo - shortest distance? Is there a known channel? What are typical depths and how much does the tide influence ones options? Looks like the leader is almost to the Everglades CP

Fla Bay is extensive flats, with some swash channels through them, and scattered bits of 'open' water. Understand, the swash channels are about 2' deep and very narrow, and the 'open' water is about 3-4' deep at best. The major swash channels are somewhat marked with pic pipes, most are unmarked. Spawn has a library of WP's marking possible routes from previous EC's and scouting trips. Without that, it would be extremely difficult in dark. Possible in daylight, but will hit bottom a lot and occasionally be a bit confused trying to find deep water. 

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15 minutes ago, trimejust4fun said:

Is it possible to navigate the shallows from CP3 to Key Largo - shortest distance? Is there a known channel? What are typical depths and how much does the tide influence ones options? Looks like the leader is almost to the Everglades CP

Yes, there are a series of dredged passes through the reefs that lead roughly east to Key Largo.   Twisty mile and Crocodile Dragger are two of them.   Some years the prevailing wind has blown enough water out of Florida Bay to make the route too shallow for sailboats.   There are some that lead roughly to South of Key Largo from Flamingo.   It is all tough navigating if you do not run through there regularly, i.e. fishing guides.

- Stumbling

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20 minutes ago, trimejust4fun said:

Is it possible to navigate the shallows from CP3 to Key Largo - shortest distance? Is there a known channel? What are typical depths and how much does the tide influence ones options? Looks like the leader is almost to the Everglades CP

in ideal conditions....

 

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10 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

From FB:

Apparently someone is already going to get him. The comments say only that he is OK and the boat is "unknown."

(Slightly edited due to SA filter)

Glad I don't live in Ft. Fatgrifter!

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3 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

in ideal conditions....

 

That looks amazing under "ideal conditions. Can't imagine it in the dark! Thanks for the realistic perspective - awesome clip!

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8 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

Yes, there are a series of dredged passes through the reefs that lead roughly east to Key Largo.   Twisty mile and Crocodile Dragger are two of them.   Some years the prevailing wind has blown enough water out of Florida Bay to make the route too shallow for sailboats.   There are some that lead roughly to South of Key Largo from Flamingo.   It is all tough navigating if you do not run through there regularly, i.e. fishing guides.

- Stumbling

Also, the bottom is a loose muck that you will sink to you waist into and suck your shoes right off.   There have been folks who have gotten stuck in the muck and had to be rescued, both out of their boat as well as in their boat.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Moko did not do any scouting. I talked to CCock Monday and we talked about that. They were 99% sure they were going to take the long southern rim route. Spawn very possibly will attempt the direct route.

is there a draft advantage between CCock and Spawn for the last leg...it appears it will be a reach ....possible finish 0000 hrs + - 

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Hopefully Ccock knows about the Murray-Clive channel. Saves a few miles over going most of the way towards East Cape. I would not suggest attempting the direct route at night unless you have some very good GPS tracks to follow.  Too easy to paint yourself in a very muddy and weedy corner over there. 

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Another sailboat going by Bonita Beach....looks like it has a mizzen sail(that's what I call it) on the back....someone sitting in the middle and another sail up front....it's way out there....looks like a owner made sailboat....theres another one outside of him with traditional head an main....

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15 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

is there a draft advantage between CCock and Spawn for the last leg...it appears it will be a reach ....possible finish 0000 hrs + - 

Moko has stock Prindle boards. Spawn has the deeper CB they'd built for FrankenScot...it's a bit deeper than a stock FS board, but boat sails ok with it half up. Plus it kicks up if hits bottom. I think neither will attempt straight across route, though Spawn might try. They've crossed it twice before in daylight and have scouted it. Moko are rookies.

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Moko's tracker hasn't updated in a couple hours. They're probably still 8 miles or so ahead, and nearing CP3.

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Which Keys would they have to leave to Port on the long route....and which would be in their path on the more direct route...I've been poking around Google earth and it is damn hard to tell where the heck one would go on the direct route....ball park on Google not really knowing it looks like the long route is about 15 miles longer....scouting in a skiff way pointing GPS would be worth GOLD !

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6 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Which Keys would they have to leave to Port on the long route....and which would be in their path on the more direct route...I've been poking around Google earth and it is damn hard to tell where the heck one would go on the direct route....ball park on Google not really knowing it looks like the long route is about 15 miles longer....scouting in a skiff way pointing GPS would be worth GOLD !

There's a swash channel heading south from Flamingo. Go about 1/2 or 2/3 way to Keys and you can start angling SE. Pick up ICW along north side of keys, which is relatively deep and marked. Follow that NE up the keys to Largo. Yes, it's much longer. Agreed, scouting for WPs ahead of time is a huge advantage.

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AT 5:10pm I see 5 sailboats heading south...theres not a lot of wind....In front of Bonita Beach

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Here is a good map from NPS which gives the idea how difficult Florida Bay can be.

Checkpoint 3 is in Flamingo - NW corner, finish is in Buttonwood sound, Key Largo, almost directly east from Flamingo. 

Direct route is about 30 miles. Going outside adds another 20-30 miles. And there are almost endless possibilities of taking chances ( and screwing up) in between. 

https://www.nps.gov/ever/planyourvisit/upload/florida_bay_map.pdf

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43 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Which Keys would they have to leave to Port on the long route....and which would be in their path on the more direct route...I've been poking around Google earth and it is damn hard to tell where the heck one would go on the direct route....ball park on Google not really knowing it looks like the long route is about 15 miles longer....scouting in a skiff way pointing GPS would be worth GOLD !

There are a couple of long ways. The really long way with the most deep water  is to go out around First National Bank and Sandy Key to the west, down towards Big Pine Key and up the ICW.
There is a shorter route going S from Flamingo to the Murray-Clive channel, a narrow mostly deep -enough channel to west of Murray and Clive Keys (clever, huh?) into a small basin.Then though wider and deeper Man-o-war channel. From there you you have options. The first is continue south to to the ICW and to the finish. This is what ZTH and I did in 2016, see the track below. 

 

 

 

A second shorter long route  is to go east through Iron Pipe Channel to Rabbit Key basin and then out to the east through one of the several cuts south of Rabbit Key and then through one or the several cuts across Twin Key Bank to the ICW. Not a route for darkness or one without local knowledge or a good set of GPS tracks from a trusted friend. 


 

outside.JPG

 

Edited to add: and don't leave home without chart 33E from Waterproof charts!

 

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7 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

looks like Spawn's experience and local knowledge schooled Ccock...cutting the corner from Cape Sable to CP3

 

Screenshot (18).png

You have to look at the time stamps. Ccock's was from 14:53, Spawn's was from 16:57, two hours later. Ccock is very close I think, but he hasn't checked in yet on his spot. But I think the cell tower at Flamingo may be down since none of the NOAA data bouys in FL bay have reported anything in over 8 hours. 

 

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4 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

There are a couple of long ways. The really long way with the most deep water  is to go out around First National Bank and Sandy Key to the west, down towards Big Pine Key and up the ICW.
There is a shorter route going S from Flamingo to the Murray-Clive channel, a narrow mostly deep -enough channel to west of Murray and Clive Keys (clever, huh?) into a small basin.Then though wider and deeper Man-o-war channel. From there you you have options. The first is continue south to to the ICW and to the ICW. This is what ZTH and I did in 2016, see the track below. 

 

 

 

A second shorter long route  is to go east through Iron Pipe Channel to Rabbit Key basin and then out to the east through one of the several cuts south of Rabbit Key and then through one or the several cuts across Twin Key Bank to the ICW. Not a route for darkness or one without local knowledge or a good set of GPS tracks from a trusted friend. 


 

outside.JPG

 

Edited to add: and don't leave home without chart 33E from Waterproof charts!

 

excellent ...MrMoon and CrazyR for the chart with channels...I was thinking the Rabbit Key basin looked tempting....certainly a gamble...15 miles longer hauling azz focusing on speed vs being very careful and never knowing if you will hit bottom...I expanded the Crazy R chart

 

Screenshot (19).png

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All those red, green, and black lines are swash channels through the flats. Some are marked, most not. 

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5 minutes ago, RKoch said:

All those red, green, and black lines are swash channels through the flats. Some are marked, most not. 

And the green shading is less than 1' deep. The yellow might be up to 4-5' deep, and the light blue isn't much deeper. And if the wind is hard from the E, all the water blows out of the bay and you loose 1-1.5 feet of water everywhere.  

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Would  hurricane Irma have significantly changed some of the swashes or are they fairly consistent do to the shallow nature of the bay?

Just saw that easterlies have a large impact on depth!

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1 minute ago, trimejust4fun said:

Would  hurricane Irma have significantly changed some of the swashes or are they fairly consistent do to the shallow nature of the bay?

Yes, the hurricane could have changed the channels. Probably more so the shallow ones than the deeper ones.

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3 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

increasing winds after midnight....go long !

 

Screenshot (20).png

Windy shows light air until after sunset, then 10-12 from NNE until dawn.

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I saw several reports the channels weren't much changed if any. Lots of markers missing though. I don't think we'll know for sure until after the race is over. The route for the kayakers through the Everglades was pretty badly damaged. 

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