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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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15 hours ago, RKoch said:

Spawn of FrankenScot out doing a bit of testing and practice to wrap up 2017.

 

image.jpeg

Boat's looking great and the weather positively frontal.

Have a Happy New Year, all!

Stumbling

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10 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Way more righting moment than sitting in the center hull of a TI.  Why is this race so compelling?

1) It's a challenge. There's a variety of conditions to be expected regarding weather and water depth. It's interesting to see people's approaches to solving those challenges. Many boats, inc fast boats, can't.

2) There's also many personal challenges...lack of sleep, navigation, cold, possibly heat, and knowing when to back off the gas pedal and when to push. The great Roger Mann established himself on ECs.

3) There's few rules regarding boats, only some basic safety rules and inspection. No arbitrary ratings or handicaps at all. If you want a big ass whomper , go for it. Water ballast? No problem. Stacking sails? Knock yourself out. That fuels creativity in design.

 

Spawn usually sails just sitting on the racks (which is still equivalent to trapezing  on a boat w/o racks). The trapezes are handy for a short puff, instead of reefing. They don't do the entire race on the trapeze. And yea, righting moment allows ample sail area. Boat is designed and set up to row well too. A surprising amount of time is under oars. Designer/builder OH Rodgers  did his first EC on Spawn in '16. Afterward he was amazed at the amount of rowing they did, and the amount of hitting bottom trying to sail in the extensive shoals.

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9 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Way more righting moment than sitting in the center hull of a TI.  Why is this race so compelling?

It's interesting to me because I'm not sure I can do it. Especially not in a way that I would do it, which definitely does NOT include donning a drysuit and getting into my Adventure Island for days at a time. That sounds possible but seriously un-fun. I think there were 25 on the beach last year? Not sure what's wrong with all those people!

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It seems like majority of Hobie Tri sailors are former kayakers. So, Adventure Island is a step up in comfort. Also versatility of the boat fits well with variability of the course. 

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1 hour ago, CrazyR said:

It seems like majority of Hobie Tri sailors are former kayakers. So, Adventure Island is a step up in comfort. Also versatility of the boat fits well with variability of the course. 

I traded down from a Core Sound to a Hobie tri this year. Yes, Tom I got the drysuit.... Going to do the EC in 2019 in it. Doing another event this year instead of the EC. 

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11 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Don't forget the beautiful campsights.  Hurricane Pass was sweet.

Yep. For those wishing more of a cruise approach, vs 'racing', the scenery is lovely.

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2 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

The boat is still at the club so more training must be in the works.

It looks like a new code 0 in the pic, or an extensive recut of the old one. Prob still working the bugs out. Don't know if there are any hull/blade mods.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

It looks like a new code 0 in the pic, or an extensive recut of the old one. Prob still working the bugs out. Don't know if there are any hull/blade mods.

Same old Hobie blades, hull looked the same from walking past it. OH said he was going to put a skid-plate along the bottom to protect it in the shallows.

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3 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Same old Hobie blades, hull looked the same from walking past it. OH said he was going to put a skid-plate along the bottom to protect it in the shallows.

Rudders are from a Prindle 19. CB is the unballasted deeper board that they had built for Frankie. There was talk at one point of imbedding a metal rod  down leading edge and tip to take bumps on bottom. 

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18 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:
20 hours ago, RKoch said:

It looks like a new code 0 in the pic, or an extensive recut of the old one. Prob still working the bugs out. Don't know if there are any hull/blade mods.

Same old Hobie blades, hull looked the same from walking past it. OH said he was going to put a skid-plate along the bottom to protect it in the shallows.

Speed and shallow water are a bad combination, unfortunately it's one of the keys (pardon the pun) to the EC.

I would think some relatively fancy foil shapes and some strong foils would be needed; Frankie is powerful and fast. A rudder going all cavitation-like during a trapezing close reach could result in some non-hilarity ensuing.

FB- Doug

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29 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Speed and shallow water are a bad combination, unfortunately it's one of the keys (pardon the pun) to the EC.

I would think some relatively fancy foil shapes and some strong foils would be needed; Frankie is powerful and fast. A rudder going all cavitation-like during a trapezing close reach could result in some non-hilarity ensuing.

FB- Doug

Foil details:

CB is from Frankie. It's an unballasted plywood and glass board about 4-6" deeper than stock FS board. Note: the plywood is not a plank, which is the weak way of building a plywood foil. Instead, the plywood was cut into strips, which were turned 90 deg and laminated together. Much stronger, bit of a bitch to shape.

Rudders: They're from a Prindle 19 that OH was messing about with 20+ years ago (the infamous 'Junkyard Cat').  Two rudders adds weight and complexity, but there's a reason. One rudder would have to be very deep and narrow. Not only the deep draft is bad, but it puts a really high load on the rudderhead....especially when it's kicked up. Dagger rudders don't have enough area when lifted for shallow water. Rudders are probably the #1 failure for EC sailboats. With twin shallow rudders, there is much less load on the rudderheads, particularly when kicked up. Also the benefit of having an extra if one gets wiped out, although that wasn't their primary reason. The rudders are closer together than on a cat, idk if Ackerman was incorporated in the linkage. The tillers and crossbar did require a bit of experimentation to get right, as the axis are angled out instead vertical and parallel as on a cat.

The speed is good, not only for getting to Key Largo first, but also so they can be cautious and back off and still be the fastest. They tend to drop the spin or reef a bit early. They're also cautious in the shallows, but hitting bottom is pretty unavoidable. In '16 they scraped and dinged the hull in a few spots rowing out through the oyster beds after Chocko. And the lower part of CB got a bit chewed up hitting bottom multiple times crossing Florida Bay. They also hit a basking shark at speed, but idk if there was any damage.

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There is a plan B to move the launch to another location if it appears there will be SCA conditions at the start on Saturday that would prevent launching from Ft. Desoto. I'm not privy to the details however. (The USCG doesn't want 100+ boats crossing the shipping channel in an SCA. Otherwise I don't think they care about the rest of the course.)

Randy has been seen testing his new boat for the Ultimate FL challenge. It's similar to his Scizzors tri, still based on what appears to be an A-cat hull, but better set up for paddling for the St. Marys and Suwanee River legs of that 1200 mile event. The amas appear to be surfboards instead of the seaplane sponson shaped ones he's been using. And yes it does have the hybrid wingsail rig. The chord on this year's rig appears to be a little less than the one he used last year. 

Matt Layden is returning after a long absence to do the EC in his 9' extreme sharpie Elusion. 

There is some concern for the folks going down the Wilderness Waterway in the Everglades that portions of the route are still closed due to damage from Irma. Work is underway to clear the route, however. 

I'm taking another year off, but will be at the start helping out and doing boat inspections. If you see me, say hello. 

 

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I think Smyth has some mods up his sleeve. Saw some pics on FB.  The SAists that did it before are sitting out this year.  I expect Roger Mann to do it in his Liteboat. Puma has switched from multihulls to kayak. IDK about the other St Pete sailors or the 'youngsters' from Tampa in the Prindle.  There's another Tampa guy who's making noise about doing it in his Sea Pearl...called me about helping fit a staysail. IDK if he's planning for this year or next.  Beach launch at Ft DeSoto still the plan. IDK what they'll do if small craft warnings...might be clusterfuck  like last year.

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I think Smyth has some mods up his sleeve. Saw some pics on FB.  The SAists that did it before are sitting out this year.  I expect Roger Mann to do it in his Liteboat. Puma has switched from multihulls to kayak. IDK about the other St Pete sailors or the 'youngsters' from Tampa in the Prindle.  There's another Tampa guy who's making noise about doing it in his Sea Pearl...called me about helping fit a staysail. IDK if he's planning for this year or next.  Beach launch at Ft DeSoto still the plan. IDK what they'll do if small craft warnings...might be clusterfuck  like last year.

2 out of the last 3 years have been rough financially on the fleet....I walk the beach that Friday afternoon....I don't see a list of entrants @ WT  

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Roster is here

http://www.watertribe.com/Events/ShowRosters.aspx

just choose Everglades Challenge or Ultimate Florida Challenge.

Randy Smyth is doing UFC. Spy pics show even lighter version of trimaran.

roster is big, in neighborhood of 130 boats for all three challenges, 93 just for Everglades Challenge, 7 for Ultimate Florida Challenge.

lots of small multihills, tris, beach cats, it seems like number of small sailboats is higher than normal. 

Im planning to enter on newely developed folding/inflatable baggage sized cat. It is replacement for the old one. Relatively fast, should be faster than Adventure Island, match to Weta. I’m keeping my fingers crossed with all the deadlines. 

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Thanks for the entry list, Crazy.

Theres a whole lot of beach cats in class 5, plus a handful of tris. Looks like a really strong class. 

Class 4 also has a large number of entries, though most appear to be more rowing-oriented... Sea Pearls, Drascombe Luggers, Dories, etc. On the performance end are Spawn as favorite with Dawn Patrol (Coresounds 20) close behind should Spawn break. Spawn is current mono record-holder, DP is a previous record holder. There's a passel of Coresound 17s that will most likely be fighting for 3rd., possibly with the Dovekie.  I do see Zero The Hero signed up in his Nomad, who will likely beat the other small sailboats and possibly knock off a few CS 17s. 

I sure hope weather is favorable for an on-schedule beach launch from Ft DeSoto. 

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ZTH is going with his 15 year old son. I don't know if they are going to push hard or just do a cruise. Either way is a valid way to do the event.

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Good to hear Matt (Wizard?) is back. I worked with him in an office at one time and he would paddle something like 5 miles to work. He had the wheels for the portage through Ga back to the Gulf and could get to within a few blocks of out office via a drainage ditch. He would fold the wheels down and come jogging into our parking lot with his rig and park it next to the Boss's big Mercedes Benz. What a contrast! Then he would come into the office (Yacht Design firm) in his sweat suit and wet neoprene slippers squeaking with every step. One day the boss told him to park his little rowboat well away from his car and change into appropriate office attire. Last we saw of Matt in the office and he worked from home remotely after that.

    We all at the office did take the afternoon off and got out in a boat to meet Matt as he made his way North in the next years race. The Coast Guard was trying to track him down (hard to do with a 11'er) and keep him from going out of the ICW to the Gulf. Matt made good time in the ICW during the day but would go out in the evening for 'sea room' and still make good time under autopilot and get some sleep while the Gulf Stream carried him north. When he went up the river in Ga and then started his 'portage' he got pulled over by some redneck Ga State Troopers who had a hard time accepting his story that he was 'circumnavigating' Florida in his contraption. 

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Layden must be an interesting cat. His boats look simple and somewhat crude even, but that hides a surprising amount of thought and innovation in the design. Def an outside the box thinker. The boat he's sailing is only 9', so it's unlikely he'll be an early finisher. The EC has evolved a bunch since he won...many boats sail 24/7 now. But he will finish. 

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Koch,

    Matt marches (paddles) to his own drummer that is for sure. Funny thing is that he can paddle that little 9'er standing up like a SUP with little effort. His trick is to swap out from rowing conventionally sitting down, to standing as mentioned with the added impetus that he gets by rocking the boat side to side with his feet when standing which in rythym with his paddle strokes get his 'chine runners' working at adding to the fwd drive. I think I can find a video of him doing this unique technique.

 

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The other thing about Matt is that he's one tough dude. He can go with very little sleep  and can keep going longer than just about anyone. He's also really smart about the course and always seems to know the way to use even adverse winds and tides to his advantage. I raced against him in the 2012 UM, him in an 8' pram and me in my 17' Core Sound. We both were one of three finishers that year out of 15. But he beat me by 18 hours on a 60 mile course.  He knew how to get out of the worst of the 25 knot headwinds and nasty chop going down Sarasota Bay while I killed myself bashing into it.  He still owns the second and third fastest times for a solo racer in Class 4, none of them in a boat more than 14' long. It took another tough as nails competitor in 21'er  and perfect conditions to beat his best time of 3 days 9 hours. 

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40 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Layden must be an interesting cat. His boats look simple and somewhat crude even, but that hides a surprising amount of thought and innovation in the design. Def an outside the box thinker. The boat he's sailing is only 9', so it's unlikely he'll be an early finisher. The EC has evolved a bunch since he won...many boats sail 24/7 now. But he will finish. 

Matt sails same boat he used in 2006 Ultimate Florida Challenge. His 2006 time for EC part is still best solo class 4 time standing at 3 days and 4 hours. Matt’s best time logged in UF records. However he has the best solo monohull sailboat time for the course. 

I’m pretty sure Matt will be an early one. 

He is called Wizard for a reason.

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Thanks for that. I missed that one in UF records. One correction: Jarhead set the record in 2013 at 2 days 23:45. But anything under 3.5 days is pretty darn fast for a two-person monohull challenge, and screechingly fast for someone going solo. Matt positively owns the solo monohull category. 

 

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1 minute ago, MisterMoon said:

Thanks for that. I missed that one in UF records. One correction: Jarhead set the record in 2013 at 2 days 23:45. But anything under 3.5 days is pretty darn fast for a two-person monohull challenge, and screechingly fast for someone going solo. Matt positively owns the solo monohull category. 

 

Thanks for that one:) I missed Jarheads best time apparently.

 

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Spawn update. Since they're going double-handed this year, they've fitted water ballast as was the original plan before three crew were allowed. Amy explains in her blog, includes a short video.

 http://www.amysmithlinton.com/blog/everglades-challenge-water-ballast

picture from Amy Linton..

http://www.amysmithlinton.com/blog/everglades-challenge-water-ballast#PhotoSwipe1518477176366

 

 

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I'm curious how the solo Laser2 with a rowing station will do this year.

2 crew went around Vancouver Island in one a few years back.

They get some great names for tribe members, like Admiral Snackbar, thumbs up mister...

Looking forward to following the race again and fair winds to the SA'ers entered...

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On February 12, 2018 at 9:36 PM, Norse Horse said:

I'm curious how the solo Laser2 with a rowing station will do this year.

2 crew went around Vancouver Island in one a few years back.

They get some great names for tribe members, like Admiral Snackbar, thumbs up mister...

Looking forward to following the race again and fair winds to the SA'ers entered...

SAist Zero The Hero is doing it with his teenage son on a Nomad. He's having difficulty packing enough food.

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

SAist Zero The Hero is doing it with his teenage son on a Nomad. He's having difficulty packing enough food.

I saw his pile of food on FB and wondered if he remembers that there are restaurants along the route.

Are you going to Fort Desoto this year?

My newest powerboat is able to catch the fast ones out in the Gulf so I might try to do that it the weather looks like it would be fun.

I want to see Synergy under way. Catching more than a glimpse of Randy under way pretty much requires a fast powerboat that can go in the Gulf. And probably means missing the start and burning a pretty large amount of fuel.

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Myself, father, and brother and niece went out in my bothers boat in 2016. Left Venice about noon in Gulf, caught the leading sailboats going in Stump Pass. Randy and Tornado went thru in light air, Spawn had a bit of seabreeze, we had to haul ass to keep up and get pics. We couldn't keep up with leaders after CP1 b/c of no wake areas in ICW. Headed back to Venice via ICW, encountered several small sailboats on inside route, and many clumps of paddlers traveling together. They all got a cheer or thumbs up. We had a good time spectating...yes, burned a lot fuel (twin OBs on a 25'er). In and around Stump Pass is a good place for spectating...good time is early aft to dusk.

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The 10 day weather forecast has finally included the start 3 March....it appears a mild cold front will have past the evening of 2 March....should be a beautiful sail down the coast

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The long range GFS looks nice for the start with ENE winds around 10 knots. Later Saturday and Sunday look more challenging with very light southerlies, so get ready to row boys. Sunday evening has the wind building to 9-12 from the west and the from the NW by Monday. Northerlies in the 10-15 knot range continue through Wednesday. My advice is as always: get south as fast you can! But I think it will be tough to get to Choko on Sunday afternoon like we did in 2016.  

This is a better looking forecast than the one from earlier this week that showed 25+ knot NW winds starting Monday night.

I'll see some of you on the beach on Friday. Doing inspections this year, sitting out the race. 

 

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I was going to bump this thread if no one else hand not responded.

Unfortunately, this year I am 8 timezones to the East of Tampa Bay, and will be unable to swing by to see the boats on the beach.   I will be watching from the digital world, next weekend.

If all goes well, I will be back by the end of the year and hopefully, on the starting line for 2019 in Class 4.

- Stumbling

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3 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

The long range GFS looks nice for the start with ENE winds around 10 knots. Later Saturday and Sunday look more challenging with very light southerlies, so get ready to row boys. Sunday evening has the wind building to 9-12 from the west and the from the NW by Monday. Northerlies in the 10-15 knot range continue through Wednesday. My advice is as always: get south as fast you can! But I think it will be tough to get to Choko on Sunday afternoon like we did in 2016.  

This is a better looking forecast than the one from earlier this week that showed 25+ knot NW winds starting Monday night.

I'll see some of you on the beach on Friday. Doing inspections this year, sitting out the race. 

 

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

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4 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

often in those conditions  ghosts of breeze can be found very near shore...very near

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23 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

In 2014, the wind shut down every night for a couple hours. At one point about 5 miles off the Everglades we got tired of the slatting sails so we lowered them and just drifted while we slept. Then on Thursday afternoon a huge line of Tstorms came through and blew the oysters off the rocks for a couple of days. We were finished before then so we missed out on the sleigh ride across FL Bay. We never reefed during the whole 2014 EC, unlike 2012 and 2016 where I spent a good part of it double reefed and wishing for a third. 

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4 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

often in those conditions  ghosts of breeze can be found very near shore...very near

Yep. I was calling tactics in StP-Boca-StP race in '87 on a 10 yo Holland 40. We went right in next to New Pass, picked up the light easterly, and passed all the new 1- tons that started 20 min ahead. Had done it about 10 years earlier in a StP-FtM Beach FORA race in a Morgan 27. Was first to finish. Old school shit.

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Just donated a 10' fg tube to a couple of EC guys for a trailer sail storage tube for their cat. Win-win...I get it out of my back yard, they get free equip storage.

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15 hours ago, RKoch said:

The ENE'ly will swing more E and die by late morning. An early afternoon seabreeze is likely, building to 12+ by late afternoon. There'll be several hours of calm Sat night before a light land breeze forms. Paddlers/rowers should have near ideal conditions for the first 36 hrs or so. Sailors might be a little frustrated. Event might be similar to '14. 

There's a weather factor that professional forecasters don't know about yet. Me!

I'm planning on chasing the sailboats out in the Gulf and I'm planning on bringing fishing rods. Planning to bring a smallish powerboat out into the Gulf is a known cause of higher winds, as is any plan involving fishing.

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20 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

often in those conditions  ghosts of breeze can be found very near shore...very near

I had the wonderful fun of beating,  boat for boat, the whole hot shot IOR fleet, including 2 tonners, with a Morgan 24 in a FORA race at Treasure Island in the late 70s.   Last leg was long, and a couple of miles offshore.   The wind turned off late morning and we went to the surf line on the beach.   Did a slow spinnaker reach around the whole fleet and then rode the fill in of a light westerly out to the finish line.   The race committee thought we had dropped out and were joking about calling for a finish.

I learned the meaning of patience crewing on that boat, but we were always trouble from behind for the rest of the MORC fleet.

- Stumbling

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