Ed Lada

Another Interesting Home Built Steel Boat

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On 2018-01-06 at 2:27 PM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Couple friends of mine built a custom Ed Burnett carvel planked double ender. Really great work on a gorgeously shaped hull. Not my cup of tea at all, I like metal boats myself, but I appreciate fine work regardless of the medium.

I'm afraid that I have no respect for this man though. There are a lot of books out there, there are a lot of proven free designs, licenses and supported designs are dirt cheap compared to the actual building cost. If you want to build a boat, it's the height of arrogance and (misplaced) certainty in your own abilities to just start hacking materials together as you go and then using a bigger hammer to make the edges fit without even attempting to do ANY research before you start.

FKT

Absolutely - I have a house, one of whose previous owners decided he/she knew how to renovate.  Awful work!

I do not understand someone with zero experience who thinks they can (or who wants) to design and build a boat...when there are so many good boats out there.  And if you have the money, hire a designer/builder.  But the DIY spirit dies hard ) sometimes kills the creation :-) )

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I like how there is no cockpit. Once the back is on it will be decided if he lives in the boat or on the boat. I guess there will be no way in or out the boat. Maybe a hammer.

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I was thinking about Zeyang when I was writing about Boatbuilder Gustav above. Sailing the Farm was a great project not least because it got done and went sailing but a lot of (young women) learned some great skills in machining and fabricating.  The continued involvement of sane women in projects clearly correlates with, and maybe in some cases causes, project success. 

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On 07/01/2018 at 7:03 PM, soak_ed said:

I am in favor of freedom of stupidity over a nanny state.  Besides, stupid can help thin the gene pool.  Always look on the bright side mate!  

always. definately.

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This thing looks like a Disney Land ride.  Maybe that’s the plan from the jump?  

Prolly then just wanted to see how much blubbering he could start on SA for laughs.

Guy at workshop is installing an “Autonymous Drive” unit on his top-fuel dragtster.  The big tire,  200+ mph long sled with big fat rear tires.  Shits/giggles time with that one.

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On 1/3/2018 at 4:53 PM, Panope said:

From his video dated Dec 31, 2017:

"So far I've spent about 800 hours.  If I spent twice that amount of time, I could make a really beautiful boat"

"I hope to cruise for about 5 years.  See the world".

 

 

 

Too bad he didn't look into getting good plans. He could have had a thing of beauty in 800 hours...

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8 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Too bad he didn't look into getting good plans. He could have had a thing of beauty in 800 hours...

I gather he could’ve had a veritable fleet of bent-stained mudflappers built!

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I find this thread fascinating. I have been reading Sailing Anarchy for years, but this prompted me to register. I thjought SA was about getting away from the humdrum, living your dream, doing the unconventional, and not conforming, above not to strict conventions. Is that what you read in the comments?

 

I look forward to following this voyage of discovery, despite many conformists' disapproval. 

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If you’ve lurked for years, you know what newbies must offer to show they are a conforming anarchist.

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3 hours ago, Coenvanwyk said:

I find this thread fascinating. I have been reading Sailing Anarchy for years, but this prompted me to register. I thjought SA was about getting away from the humdrum, living your dream, doing the unconventional, and not conforming, above not to strict conventions. Is that what you read in the comments?

 

I look forward to following this voyage of discovery, despite many conformists' disapproval. 

It's one thing to be nonconformist, it's quite another to ignore basic truths found through hundreds of years of boat design.

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It's one thing to be a non-conformist and it's quite another to simply be a fool.

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3 hours ago, Coenvanwyk said:

I find this thread fascinating. I have been reading Sailing Anarchy for years, but this prompted me to register. I thjought SA was about getting away from the humdrum, living your dream, doing the unconventional, and not conforming, above not to strict conventions. Is that what you read in the comments?

 

I look forward to following this voyage of discovery, despite many conformists' disapproval. 

image.png.6c2841f9e262f0dd49c7975166ccf9b4.png

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4 hours ago, Coenvanwyk said:

I find this thread fascinating. I have been reading Sailing Anarchy for years, but this prompted me to register. I thjought SA was about getting away from the humdrum, living your dream, doing the unconventional, and not conforming, above not to strict conventions. Is that what you read in the comments?

 

I look forward to following this voyage of discovery, despite many conformists' disapproval. 

 

BE06B5A1-7713-40A2-8F11-FB6DF4BA48BD.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Coenvanwyk said:

I find this thread fascinating. I have been reading Sailing Anarchy for years, but this prompted me to register. I thjought SA was about getting away from the humdrum, living your dream, doing the unconventional, and not conforming, above not to strict conventions. Is that what you read in the comments?

 

I look forward to following this voyage of discovery, despite many conformists' disapproval. 

The problem is that there are actually professional boatbulders and naval architects commenting here...
...we didn't make careers in this business by being fools with a torch.

The guy is interesting, and clever. He is no dummy. He's built race cars for god's sakes. He likes a good challenge. But he didn't do much research. In fact pretty much none as far as I can tell.
Fundamentally, he is reinventing the wheel, rather than using his noggin to develop something new, novel, or unique.

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I've seen 14 year old kids build race cars.

I wouldn't want to race either theirs or his.

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4 hours ago, Coenvanwyk said:

I find this thread fascinating. I have been reading Sailing Anarchy for years, but this prompted me to register. I thjought SA was about getting away from the humdrum, living your dream, doing the unconventional, and not conforming, above not to strict conventions. Is that what you read in the comments?

 

I look forward to following this voyage of discovery, despite many conformists' disapproval. 

Discussing the merits and faults of something isn't blanket disapproval, it's critique. You seem to want blanket approval. The guy who is upset about the Girl Goes Sailing in Hot Place thread wants the same thing, blanket approval. The solution is for you blanket approval types is to start your own threads and write strictly glowing accolades. Use your analytical skills for creating new ways to say "you go girl" since you reject applying them to 'voyages of discovery'.

By making his project public this builder is inviting criticism. The merit I see in it is that it looks like the guy is enjoying himself without obnoxious axe grinding. The faults I see are purely technical around the design and engineering that was skipped while making a mess out on the driveway. I do hope he succeeds in sailing around in that turd. The good news is that he has the reserve buoyancy to add a lot of structure. The bad news is the plate thickness combined with endless miles of welds might not handle it.

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2 hours ago, lasal said:

Discussing the merits and faults of something isn't blanket disapproval, it's critique. You seem to want blanket approval. The guy who is upset about the Girl Goes Sailing in Hot Place thread wants the same thing, blanket approval. The solution is for you blanket approval types is to start your own threads and write strictly glowing accolades. Use your analytical skills for creating new ways to say "you go girl" since you reject applying them to 'voyages of discovery'.

By making his project public this builder is inviting criticism. The merit I see in it is that it looks like the guy is enjoying himself without obnoxious axe grinding. The faults I see are purely technical around the design and engineering that was skipped while making a mess out on the driveway. I do hope he succeeds in sailing around in that turd. The good news is that he has the reserve buoyancy to add a lot of structure. The bad news is the plate thickness combined with endless miles of welds might not handle it.

And it's going to look like a weak POS no matter what he does to it.....

FKT

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5 hours ago, Ishmael said:

It's one thing to be nonconformist, it's quite another to ignore basic truths found through hundreds of years of boat design.

 

5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's one thing to be a non-conformist and it's quite another to simply be a fool.

Indeed, there is that.

I admire his spirit but there are limits.  That thing isn't going to even float well, let alone sail.  You can build a house in almost any way and it will at least be shelter. A boat is a little more complex if you actually intend to use it on the water.

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43 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

And it's going to look like a weak POS no matter what he does to it.....

FKT

I think he’s going to sink it...

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

And it's going to look like a weak POS no matter what he does to it.....

FKT

Yes, it will. The Rustoleum Red just adds to the, 'someone beat a water tank into a boat-shaped object' look.

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1 hour ago, Coenvanwyk said:

I rather see blanket disapproval. 

It's sad to see a lot of effort and time go into something that's going to be a complete failure at its intended task. I couldn't design a rowing boat and I know it; the fact that I've successfully designed & built other things isn't any sort of guarantee I could do the same with a boat. Thinking you can just 'wing' a sailboat without any knowledge of required structure, shape and in this case steel sections isn't a good thing, it's somewhere between overweening arrogance and idiocy.

So yes, I do disapprove. I don't care a lot because I doubt the thing will ever actually get wet but it's a real shame to see that much effort wasted when buying a set of plans or studying basic boat design and *then* starting a build likely would have led to a successful result. Even a BS 36 would turn out better than this.

FKT

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What we're saying basically is that if you have at least a minimum of experience with boats, and in particular sailing boats meant to cross oceans, there really is no room for improvisation as far as basic design and structure is concerned. That is not an opinion, that is fact.

So it's a bit of a shame to see people spend a lot effort on such projects without doing their homework first.

At least this guy seems to be having some fun without taking himself too seriously...

 

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7 hours ago, Coenvanwyk said:

I rather see blanket disapproval. 

Yes, which is difficult to achieve. Especially here. Could be two reasons for this state of affairs. 1. We're all hide bound traditionalists intent on quashing anything new and innovative and hopefully destroying the human sprit while we're at it. 2. The 'design' and its construction are so awful that anyone with a moment's experience of moving a boat about on the water can see just how bad that thing is.

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10 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The latest episode is out. Words fail me - you have to see it for yourself.

FKT

It was pretty amazing indeed.  I thought the guy knew something about engines, I guess he built a race car, but to even think about putting an air cooled engine inside a metal boat (or inside any boat)?????  And his interior strengthening of the hull looks a little, um, inadequate.  I liked the one comment on the video, some guy asked something to the effect of how deep would his submarine be able to go.

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On 1/9/2018 at 7:41 AM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Absolutely - I have a house, one of whose previous owners decided he/she knew how to renovate.  Awful work!

I do not understand someone with zero experience who thinks they can (or who wants) to design and build a boat...when there are so many good boats out there.  And if you have the money, hire a designer/builder.  But the DIY spirit dies hard ) sometimes kills the creation :-) )

This is why I laugh at all these shows that follow the DIY flippers.  There is no way in hell I would buy a house that was flipped by an amateur just to make a few bucks.  They are funny to watch though.  

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This is fabulous: the guy is building a traditional composite hull - except for the fact he's putting the wood on the inside of a metal skin!

He even seems to be thinking about including a keelson inside the hull

Once the wooden frames on the inside are all properly tied together, the hull might actually have some strength to it? :blink:

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I like the electric bike in episode 11.

Did he say in episode 12, 3:30 mark that he’s using aluminum channel to mate the wood frames to the steel frames?   :o

 

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12 minutes ago, Lark said:

I like the electric bike in episode 11.

Did he say in episode 12, 3:30 mark that he’s using aluminum channel to mate the wood frames to the steel frames?   :o

 

Yeah. As I said, words fail me.

I'd be wondering if the whole thing wasn't just an elaborate internet windup if I hadn't seen the amount of work he's putting in. 1/100th of that time actually thinking would have been good.

Let's see - I'll weld in pissy undersized frames (thereby introducing truly impressive distortion) then attach structural wooden stiffeners using aluminium channel - *or* I could have actually made the frames the proper dimension in the first place - what *shall* I do........

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah. As I said, words fail me.

I'd be wondering if the whole thing wasn't just an elaborate internet windup if I hadn't seen the amount of work he's putting in. 1/100th of that time actually thinking would have been good.

Let's see - I'll weld in pissy undersized frames (thereby introducing truly impressive distortion) then attach structural wooden stiffeners using aluminium channel - *or* I could have actually made the frames the proper dimension in the first place - what *shall* I do........

FKT

The next step will be fiberglassing the hull from the inside and bonding in carbon ring frames.

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  Buying 100 8 foot 2x4s then cutting them into 5' pieces.  Why oh why did he not think to buy 50 10 footers?  I was willing to cut him him some slack for following his goofy dream but now he's into deforestation.

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and why not 10 ft 2x8s so he actually got some structure out of it???

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6 hours ago, eric1207 said:

  Buying 100 8 foot 2x4s then cutting them into 5' pieces.  Why oh why did he not think to buy 50 10 footers?  I was willing to cut him him some slack for following his goofy dream but now he's into deforestation.

That bit of logic defied belief :unsure:

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He's entertaining, What a piece of shit he's building. I hope it doesn't kill anyone, tho I suspect it'll never see the water.

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9 hours ago, eric1207 said:

  Buying 100 8 foot 2x4s then cutting them into 5' pieces.  Why oh why did he not think to buy 50 10 footers? 

The guy appears to be clueless in every way possible.

It's like watching an 8 year old built a tree fort.

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10 hours ago, eric1207 said:

  Buying 100 8 foot 2x4s then cutting them into 5' pieces.  Why oh why did he not think to buy 50 10 footers?  I was willing to cut him him some slack for following his goofy dream but now he's into deforestation.

There is a plan for the remaining 4 ft sections of wood... 

 

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8 minutes ago, Windward said:

And an air cooled VW motor as a possibility?  Genius!

 

 

I have seen a couple air-cooled inboards (not VW). They can work. They do require a big volume of air, so what you lose in underwater thru-hulls you gain in large air intakes and exhausts on deck (which water can get in). And of course any conversion of a non-marine engine requires a thrust bearing of some sort...that's usually provided with a marine transmission, which also gives you F-N-R in addition to a reduction gear. I did one time see a mobo with a straight 6 and 3-speed trans from a truck, using 2nd gear for forward. It had a thrust bearing on the prop shaft. Worked great for several decades. It also used the steering box from the truck, connecting the pitman arm to the rudder with a long drag link. 

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1 hour ago, Windward said:

There is a plan for the remaining 4 ft sections of wood... 

 

If that plan is for 4' pieces he's in for a surprise.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
11 hours ago, eric1207 said:

  Buying 100 8 foot 2x4s then cutting them into 5' pieces.  Why oh why did he not think to buy 50 10 footers? 

 

You're forgeting the kerf- duh.  Cutting a 10 footing in half would give him 2 x  4' 11 15/16" boards at best.  Clearly way out of spec for this project.

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The guy appears to be clueless in every way possible.

It's like watching an 8 year old built a tree fort.

That's an insult to all 8 year old fort builders.

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1 hour ago, lasal said:

As the world turds. That surfboard is a work of fart.

Turecamo Brother's Tugboats were always painted in faux wood grain. By a true artist of that trade. He is now really old and living in Florida, and Turecamo was bought out by McAllister or Moran or somebody and all that paintwork is gone. Even tied to the quay, you could't tell it was fake until you looked at the details of the hinges etc.

But this surfboard? Dog's fucking puked up breakfast.

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5 hours ago, Ishmael said:

If that plan is for 4' pieces he's in for a surprise.

Precut studs are an exact length, but regular 2xs have a couple of extra saw kerfs in the length usually.

Thiss antisocial boat builder is using a table saw to cut curves. I'm sure Ryobi makes a dirt cheap jigsaw that would do the job, but heck freehanding a bunch of angles onto a 2x4 takes far longer and looks stupid as hell doing it so there's the win win.

Good thing he took care of the gelcoat crazing on his old Sabot. It's the details that win awards. He's a fine crapsman.

 

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39 minutes ago, lasal said:

Precut studs are an exact length, but regular 2xs have a couple of extra saw kerfs in the length usually.

Thiss antisocial boat builder is using a table saw to cut curves. I'm sure Ryobi makes a dirt cheap jigsaw that would do the job, but heck freehanding a bunch of angles onto a 2x4 takes far longer and looks stupid as hell doing it so there's the win win.

Good thing he took care of the gelcoat crazing on his old Sabot. It's the details that win awards. He's a fine crapsman.

 

There was some comment he made about how a bandsaw would be better but that would have cost him $400 and he wasn't prepared to pay it. I guess he'd shit an entire pallet of bricks if he knew what my USA made Grob Bros bandsaw cost.......

FKT

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Quick look at CL shows several floor stand band saws for ~$200 or less.  Back out the wasted lumber and he'd have a usable saw for ~$50.  After done, sell it and he'd make a "profit" just by using his noggin.  sheesh.  

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just by using his noggin

There's the crux of the problem.

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1 hour ago, lasal said:
7 hours ago, Ishmael said:

If that plan is for 4' pieces he's in for a surprise.

Precut studs are an exact length, but regular 2xs have a couple of extra saw kerfs in the length usually.

Thiss antisocial boat builder is using a table saw to cut curves. I'm sure Ryobi makes a dirt cheap jigsaw that would do the job, but heck freehanding a bunch of angles onto a 2x4 takes far longer and looks stupid as hell doing it so there's the win win.

Good thing he took care of the gelcoat crazing on his old Sabot. It's the details that win awards. He's a fine crapsman.

That comment was aimed at the concept of cutting 5' off an 8' board and having 4' left...

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Seems appropriate.

"No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short" could have been written for this guy.

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8 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

That comment was aimed at the concept of cutting 5' off an 8' board and having 4' left...

You could see if he wants some help. :)

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I wonder where he plans on splashing this deuce. Is he near SF? There is a low budget yard out near China Camp Park. Maybe they'll flush it for him.

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1 hour ago, lasal said:

I wonder where he plans on splashing this deuce. Is he near SF? There is a low budget yard out near China Camp Park. Maybe they'll flush it for him.

 

1 hour ago, lasal said:

I wonder where he plans on splashing this deuce. Is he near SF? There is a low budget yard out near China Camp Park. Maybe they'll flush it for him.

Is that run by Mr. Wu?

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17 hours ago, lasal said:

I wonder where he plans on splashing this deuce. Is he near SF? There is a low budget yard out near China Camp Park. Maybe they'll flush it for him.

Any yard with half a brain would tell the guy to GTFO. The boat is a train looking for a place to wreck...wouldn't want it on any premises I ran. 

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That's why I was thinking this particular place would be perfect. Among dozens of small derelict boats laying around in the grass, they had a huge unfinished ferro hull sitting out in a field for years and years. (I think it was on their property.) This yard may now be closed anyway, the interwebs picked up something about the county buying the 32 acres.

I don't know where this build is taking place anyway. could be south of SF too. He'll be in for some fun sea trails if he launches in Santa Cruz.

The epic crappiness is entertaining. I'm looking forward to seeing the rig and sail handling setup. And the steering/rudder. He's struggling to cut a 2x4, so these complex items will be exciting.

For the blanket praise people; if you can't say anything nice about my harsh, joking criticism, don't say anything at all. Please, be consistent. And FYI, I don't post on his YouTube channel. I don't think you can say 'turd' on YouTube.

5 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Any yard with half a brain would tell the guy to GTFO. The boat is a train looking for a place to wreck...wouldn't want it on any premises I ran. 

 

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55 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Any yard with half a brain would tell the guy to GTFO. The boat is a train looking for a place to wreck...wouldn't want it on any premises I ran. 

Lots of steel so there's good scrap value - it's not like glass/wood/ferro disasters.

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29 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Lots of steel so there's good scrap value - it's not like glass/wood/ferro disasters.

No matter the scrap value of steel, I wouldn't want it sunk in the travel lift slip. And there's the probability of no insurance, and the possibility of the guy abandoning the pos on the property. It's a high-risk, low-reward, customer.

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20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Seems appropriate.

"No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short" could have been written for this guy.

If that's the problem, try taking the other side of the cut.  

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

No matter the scrap value of steel, I wouldn't want it sunk in the travel lift slip. And there's the probability of no insurance, and the possibility of the guy abandoning the pos on the property. It's a high-risk, low-reward, customer.

 

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wonder if he'll 'make' some sort of composite mast - or acquire one from CL/side of the road/dumpster

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1 hour ago, Dark Cloud said:

wonder if he'll 'make' some sort of composite mast - or acquire one from CL/side of the road/dumpster

Mast? It's going to be decades before he gets to the mast thingy.

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10 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Mast? It's going to be decades before he gets to the mast thingy.

But what a spectacular thingy it'll be when he gets to it.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

But what a spectacular thingy it'll be when he gets to it.

Judging by his hull, I suspect he'll weld up a mast from boiler punchings. It'll be entertaining, at least.

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Maybe he will hear of rod rigging, and make some up of welding rod...

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13 hours ago, sculpin said:

Maybe he will hear of rod rigging, and make some up of welding rod...

It might be the only boat with wrought rigging.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

It might be the only boat with wrought rigging.

I see what you did there.

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On 2/16/2018 at 12:21 AM, Ishmael said:

Mast? It's going to be decades before he gets to the mast thingy.

They do require a lot of bending and welding but I think he can get the job done in just a few years. 

Unless he hit a light pole with his Camaro. Then he can just go back with his pickup and retrieve his new mast

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

They do require a lot of bending and welding but I think he can get the job done in just a few years. 

Unless he hit a light pole with his Camaro. Then he can just go back with his pickup and retrieve his new mast

In all seriousness I did have a boat near me that was really well built, and did use a lamp pole for it's junk rig.  It worked as intended, albeit I had my doubts.  Went to the south pacific and back from the PNW with a stop in Hawaii.  

From what I recall someone had it trucked to the midwest to model the design from a 35 ft boat to a 45 foot boat.  This is where I lost the story.

Guy was a really talented boat  builder though, so there is that...

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Ming Ming II is the very well sorted junk rig Corribee with an alloy lamp post for a mast. He mostly did it “pour epater les bourgeois”. 

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1 hour ago, Windward said:

In all seriousness I did have a boat near me that was really well built, and did use a lamp pole for it's junk rig.  It worked as intended, albeit I had my doubts.  Went to the south pacific and back from the PNW with a stop in Hawaii.  

From what I recall someone had it trucked to the midwest to model the design from a 35 ft boat to a 45 foot boat.  This is where I lost the story.

Guy was a really talented boat  builder though, so there is that...

The 74' origami boat, SV Seeker is using light poles for the masts.  Junk rig.  

 

 

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Light standard masts are old news. BITD of the home building boom there was lots of advice on how to use them - not just for junk rigs.

I always thought it fell into the same sort of category as selecting a hull material because it was cheap (like ferro). False economy when you look at what you give up VS the $ saved.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Light standard masts are old news. BITD of the home building boom there was lots of advice on how to use them - not just for junk rigs.

I always thought it fell into the same sort of category as selecting a hull material because it was cheap (like ferro). False economy when you look at what you give up VS the $ saved.

 

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Light standard masts are old news. BITD of the home building boom there was lots of advice on how to use them - not just for junk rigs.

I always thought it fell into the same sort of category as selecting a hull material because it was cheap (like ferro). False economy when you look at what you give up VS the $ saved.

That depends on the rig you're using.

I have steel tube masts as per designer's drawings.

So what am I giving up?

FKT

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16 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That depends on the rig you're using.

I have steel tube masts as per designer's drawings.

So what am I giving up?

FKT

Your dignity? :)

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