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hey

I've heard a bit about the VO65's being outdated and taking the cutting edge spirit away from the VOR

i was just wondering how you guys think they would run against the comp in the Sydney to Hobart, or even against the 70's

and just some general opinions about the one design and whether you guys actually like it

personally, i appreciate the closer racing but would like some design aspect in the race ind i think that it kind of takes away from the spirit of the race

Edited by MR PLOW 270
i'm a dumb fuck

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7 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

What's really outdated is blowing up this forum with yet another thread about the volvo. Shut it down please, management!

What other ocean racing is occurring at the moment that you’d prefer to read?  You can always scroll past, but you decided to drop in and post. :P

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So there are two primary criticisms from ppl. 

1. They're slower than VO70. "Underpowered". 

The folks that keep repeating this don't really pay attention to actual number of VO70s that sailed without DNF a leg. They just want that 24hr record. Also tend to be blokes who join the event and get their butts handed to them because "underpowered" boats means they'll carry fewer ppl. Yes.  That will work. 

2. OD takes away from their enjoyment because they enjoy comparing gear. 

They prefer to watch a very interesting event in the building up phase. But after the fleet gets to Cape Town, zzzzzz... you know which boats are faster and the battle becomes if the faster boats will fall apart. For the remaining 7 months. 

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Still some of the fastest 60-70 footers in the world. They’ll have a life after the Volvo like every other outdated raceboat...to a point.

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11 minutes ago, ASP said:

Still some of the fastest 60-70 footers in the world. They’ll have a life after the Volvo like every other outdated raceboat...to a point.

Wouldn't it mad if someone with resources decided to buy more than a couple of them and setup a racing series?

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7 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

I've heard a bit about the VO65's being outdated and taking the cutting edge spirit away from the VOR

i was just wondering how you guys think they would run against the comp in the Sydney to Hobart, or even against the 70's

and just some general opinions about the one design and whether you guys actually like it

Wondering about how a (One) Design optimized for circumnavigation would perform in a specific event really depends on the event. 

Would having a race like the Vendee also run in one design make it more interesting when all the differences were attributable to the sailor's onboard performance or does the planning of the race, to include the design, construction tradeoffs add more interest ? 

The pinnacle events that seem to get most attention (AC, Vendee, etc)  are open design, but they necessarily have higher costs & risks.

Knowing that all of the boats/rigs/sails are the same, allows for a safety margin, that will reduce the incentive to make marginal design/construction/outfitting decisions. 

One design or partial one design (Vendee spars) lowers costs & makes the event more accessible and may increase participation, which thus makes it more relevant & interesting. 

How do you balance the exotic with the affordable? 

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It's important to recognize that all of the seriously campaigned 70's were pretty heavily modified after they became IRC boats. The 65's would likely undergo similar changes. 

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5 hours ago, Miffy said:

So there are two primary criticisms from ppl. 

1. They're slower than VO70. "Underpowered". 

The folks that keep repeating this don't really pay attention to actual number of VO70s that sailed without DNF a leg. They just want that 24hr record. Also tend to be blokes who join the event and get their butts handed to them because "underpowered" boats means they'll carry fewer ppl. Yes.  That will work. 

2. OD takes away from their enjoyment because they enjoy comparing gear. 

They prefer to watch a very interesting event in the building up phase. But after the fleet gets to Cape Town, zzzzzz... you know which boats are faster and the battle becomes if the faster boats will fall apart. For the remaining 7 months. 

If you could combine a good build up phase with a good race, it would be a win-win :)

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Bit of an orphan of a design. Maybe they'll be ok stripped out but you'd be mad to not buy a turbo'd VO70 for a $1m. 

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6 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Bit of an orphan of a design. Maybe they'll be ok stripped out but you'd be mad to not buy a turbo'd VO70 for a $1m. 

Bit of a shortage of those on the market these days though. Is Black Jack for sale? She's the only turbo'd boat not being actively sailed that I can think of. That can't be where you're getting your 1m pricetag from. That boat should command at least $1.5/2m simply due to the new rig and sails. 

Otherwise you've got Wharro's boat (aka: a pig not worth 69 dollars), Tele Black (Not Turbo'd), and Green Dragon (Broken mast and slow) on Yachtworld. Then the rest of the 05-06 boats are either sunk, museum pieces, or totally outmoded and probably slower than a 65 simply due to the 10 years of design development between them. Sidebar: Anyone have a location on the two ABN AMRO Boats from that race? 

Groupama (Wizard), Il Mostro (Il Mostro), Mar Mostro (SFS), Camper (Warrior), Ericsson 3 (Maserati), Ericsson 4 (Trifork), and Team Russia (Monster Project) are all happily racing. Telefonica Blue/Sanya might be an interesting buy but it really seems that the JuanK reaching machines are the highly demanded used 70s. 

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Black Jack for sale, Maserati should be on the market soon. Giacomo just sold, the original Brunel VO70 from 2006 is on the market for $470USD $595AUD

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4 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Black Jack for sale, Maserati should be on the market soon. Giacomo just sold, the original Brunel VO70 from 2006 is on the market for $470USD $595AUD

As always, it’s not the purchase cost, it’s the running costs. 

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50 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Bit of a shortage of those on the market these days though. Is Black Jack for sale? She's the only turbo'd boat not being actively sailed that I can think of. That can't be where you're getting your 1m pricetag from. That boat should command at least $1.5/2m simply due to the new rig and sails. 

Otherwise you've got Wharro's boat (aka: a pig not worth 69 dollars), Tele Black (Not Turbo'd), and Green Dragon (Broken mast and slow) on Yachtworld. Then the rest of the 05-06 boats are either sunk, museum pieces, or totally outmoded and probably slower than a 65 simply due to the 10 years of design development between them. Sidebar: Anyone have a location on the two ABN AMRO Boats from that race? 

Groupama (Wizard), Il Mostro (Il Mostro), Mar Mostro (SFS), Camper (Warrior), Ericsson 3 (Maserati), Ericsson 4 (Trifork), and Team Russia (Monster Project) are all happily racing. Telefonica Blue/Sanya might be an interesting buy but it really seems that the JuanK reaching machines are the highly demanded used 70s. 

Saw ABN2 in a Abu Dhabi parking lot last June looking for a "little" TLC.  Not sure where she is now or if she's had any TLC...

ABN2 AbuDhabi01.jpg

ABN2 AbuDhabi02.jpg

ABN2 AbuDhabi03.jpg

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4 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Wondering about how a (One) Design optimized for circumnavigation would perform in a specific event really depends on the event. 

Would having a race like the Vendee also run in one design make it more interesting when all the differences were attributable to the sailor's onboard performance or does the planning of the race, to include the design, construction tradeoffs add more interest ? 

The pinnacle events that seem to get most attention (AC, Vendee, etc)  are open design, but they necessarily have higher costs & risks.

Knowing that all of the boats/rigs/sails are the same, allows for a safety margin, that will reduce the incentive to make marginal design/construction/outfitting decisions. 

One design or partial one design (Vendee spars) lowers costs & makes the event more accessible and may increase participation, which thus makes it more relevant & interesting. 

How do you balance the exotic with the affordable? 

The big question.......... tick

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15 minutes ago, euro said:

Saw ABN2 in a Abu Dhabi parking lot last June looking for a "little" TLC.  Not sure where she is now or if she's had any TLC...

ABN2 AbuDhabi01.jpg

ABN2 AbuDhabi02.jpg

ABN2 AbuDhabi03.jpg

WTF have they done to the keel bulb??

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7 minutes ago, mad said:

WTF have they done to the keel bulb??

"Sire we dropped the keel for inspection as you requested"

 

"....."

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14 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

hey

I've heard a bit about the VO65's being outdated and taking the cutting edge spirit away from the VOR

i was just wondering how you guys think they would run against the comp in the Sydney to Hobart, or even against the 70's

and just some general opinions about the one design and whether you guys actually like it

personally, i appreciate the closer racing but would like some design aspect in the race ind i think that it kind of takes away from the spirit of the race

Feedback I've had from more than one person who sailed the last VO70 edition and then sailed the first edition in the OD65 is that the smaller boat just can't be pushed as hard.

So while the OD65 is not a "bad" boat as such, it was described to me as "it's just not a 70."

 

Apparently you can do dumb stuff in the 70 as it'll just keep going faster and faster, but the loss of control then takes on biblical proportions. The 65 on the other hand won't let you get that stupid - it just spins out and has a lie down / sulk. In the 65 you end up being more aware of where the badlands are, while the 70 waits for you in a dark alley and then steals your wallet.

 

So in a 600 mile Hobart race (which has become a 36 hour sprint) being able to keep your foot on the gas in a boat that's also 5 foot longer could be a winner. Or just much more expensive when you do come unstuck.

 

Having done a couple of miles on the 70, I can see that aspect. It's super easily driven, loves to go fast and I can imagine being lulled into hanging on to the big sails for just another few minutes... The changes are a mission, but once you have the right combination up it's very cool. So the temptation to not call a sail change is the path to the dark side of the Force.

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'insufficient' righting moment was designed into the 65, ala under-sized keel bulb to reduce total sailing loads, it's tippy with less power/weight ratio. it's a good boat, and can take hard racing.

the 70's however, are on a short list of some of the baddest assed boats that ever floated.

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8 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Wondering about how a (One) Design optimized for circumnavigation would perform in a specific event really depends on the event. 

Would having a race like the Vendee also run in one design make it more interesting when all the differences were attributable to the sailor's onboard performance or does the planning of the race, to include the design, construction tradeoffs add more interest ? 

The pinnacle events that seem to get most attention (AC, Vendee, etc)  are open design, but they necessarily have higher costs & risks.

Knowing that all of the boats/rigs/sails are the same, allows for a safety margin, that will reduce the incentive to make marginal design/construction/outfitting decisions. 

One design or partial one design (Vendee spars) lowers costs & makes the event more accessible and may increase participation, which thus makes it more relevant & interesting. 

How do you balance the exotic with the affordable? 

HANDS OFF the VG, as far as any more OD is concerned. If it ain't broke....

 

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2 hours ago, 3to1 said:

'insufficient' righting moment was designed into the 65, ala under-sized keel bulb to reduce total sailing loads, it's tippy with less power/weight ratio. it's a good boat, and can take hard racing.

the 70's however, are on a short list of some of the baddest assed boats that ever floated.

truth, the third-gen 70's were scary fast. I remember some of Ken Read's comments on how they would start to feel a little sketched out when the boat was up near 40 knots of boat-speed. I can't even imagine, boats just thoroughly out of control. 

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I believe that the 70's saw occasional bursts of 45 knot boat speeds and it was far beyond reason. fkg monsters..

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In the run up to the last event one team had bought an old 70 to train with before their new 65 arrived. Then they tried to sail the two boats against each other. Not possible because the 70 was just way too fast.  What was the answer? De-power the 70 by restricting the amount of keel cant until it was as slow as the 65.

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3 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

do you guys think that the 65's will have much of a life after thhis race finishes up like the 70's?

No.

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The 65's would be dominant in most 2nd tier racing; coastal and lower budget. Proven robust and within the ability of mere mortals to control. 

 

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I think the wind and boat speed data from both the 65's and 70's would be interesting to see and compare.  I'd especially like to see their AWD vs TWD in higher wind ranges when  beam to board reaching.

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3 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

The 65's would be dominant in most 2nd tier racing; coastal and lower budget. Proven robust and within the ability of mere mortals to control. 

Proven is the key word here, I’d think. The design data tested and refined over five years must be quite valuable for any future design in so many areas.

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I think one of the most interesting aspects of the VO65 relative to the sailing world at large is the outriggers. I don't see why these can't be allowed as more standard, ratable, equipment on offshore boats as a good way to turbocharge boats performance off the breeze. They're already legal in certain situations if used off the mainmast, so it would be cool to see mods allowed to use them at the transom for flying kites off of. 

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19 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Mr Plow - try a few of these and compare to the current footage

 

 

 

 

I'd forgotten just how nuts those boats were!

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20 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Mr Plow - try a few of these and compare to the current footage

 

 

 

 

Just showed my missus this. If I win Thursdays $55m powerball I won't be allowed to buy a Volvo 70 :(

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

Just showed my missus this. If I win Thursdays $55m powerball I won't be allowed to buy a Volvo 70 :(

I'm allowed. And you could be permanent crew if you catch my drift :

;) 

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2 hours ago, SCANAS said:

I'm allowed. And you could be permanent crew if you catch my drift :

;) 

She find it suspicious if I don't buy an race a yacht if I have that much winnings. Anyway, I don't think a V70 would fit in my marina because of the draft.

With that money I'd probably get McConaghy to build me a 50 ft racer with a minimalist but usable cruising interior and a IMOCA60 style deck layout for shorthanded sailing. 

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15 hours ago, SCANAS said:

I'd buy a T8, Seacart 30, Cookson 50 & a 35' trawler / cruiser. 

Stink boats, yuck and zzzzzzzzzzzzz

As you are in Brisy shouldn't you be be aspiring for something more "Miami Vice"

A male appendage extension...

130471530546_Running_2011_180.jpg

 

If I skip the custom build, then perhaps I'd order a Jeanneau 64 and buy a recently retired TP52 and IRC optimise it.

 

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To me the most redeeming quality of the VOR 65’s is their close OD specs.  Seems to me the best future for these boats is staying together, I know, pie in the sky.  Also given the 1.2 million (USD) price tag for the old SCA I find this scenario very unlikely.

I don’t expect that price to last long with 7 more boats coming onto the market.  8 VOR65’s on the market at 1.2 million a pop?  It will be interesting to see how far the price falls.  I know sale price means less when compared to operating cost. 

People are bemoaning another VOR 65 thread, but when this race is over and these boats come to market I think this thread will get interesting.

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55 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Stink boats, yuck and zzzzzzzzzzzzz

As you are in Brisy shouldn't you be be aspiring for something more "Miami Vice"

A male appendage extension...

130471530546_Running_2011_180.jpg

 

If I skip the custom build, then perhaps I'd order a Jeanneau 64 and buy a recently retired TP52 and IRC optimise it.

 

Brisbane is not the Gold Coast! Mind you on Sunday @ the Gold Coast the candyman ploughed through the sailing boats, in his Miami Vice stink boat doing 30++ knots with about 8 bikini clad model types, he was the sole male on board. Didn't look too bad. 

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/multiple-girls-requires-imagination-inside-the-life-of-the-candyman/news-story/88ac28cf2d86a749829729c355e0c83d

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9 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Brisbane is not the Gold Coast! Mind you on Sunday @ the Gold Coast the candyman ploughed through the sailing boats, in his Miami Vice stink boat doing 30++ knots with about 8 bikini clad model types, he was the sole male on board. Didn't look too bad. 

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/multiple-girls-requires-imagination-inside-the-life-of-the-candyman/news-story/88ac28cf2d86a749829729c355e0c83d

looks like a tough life he has.

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16 hours ago, SCANAS said:

I'd buy a T8, Seacart 30, Cookson 50 & a 35' trawler / cruiser. 

Jesus. Are you my sock puppet, or am I yours?

Either way - your taste in boats is of the highest calibre, sir.

May I suggest though m'lord, that you consider a slightly larger trawler - just large enough to put the T8 on the roof when travelling to regattas? It makes more of a statement than arriving with your sportsboat on a trailer...

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6 minutes ago, Jason AUS said:

Jesus. Are you my sock puppet, or am I yours?

Either way - your taste in boats is of the highest calibre, sir.

May I suggest though m'lord, that you consider a slightly larger trawler - just large enough to put the T8 on the roof when travelling to regattas? It makes more of a statement than arriving with your sportsboat on a trailer...

Consider it done! Of course the T8 & Cruiser will have to have matching livery. 

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53 minutes ago, Jason AUS said:

May I suggest though m'lord, that you consider a slightly larger trawler - just large enough to put the T8 on the roof when travelling to regattas? It makes more of a statement than arriving with your sportsboat on a trailer...

I once saw a super yacht which had a 40 foot sailboat on the back. As far a superyachts go, it was not so big so it would be easy enough to scale it up and fit a Cookson 50 or a TP52 on the back.

It also had a 40 foot motorboat on the back.

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48 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Consider it done! Of course the T8 & Cruiser will have to have matching livery. 

How would the cruiser look in cherry red? That's right, we're making a STATEMENT!

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8 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I once saw a super yacht which had a 40 foot sailboat on the back. As far a superyachts go, it was not so big so it would be easy enough to scale it up and fit a Cookson 50 or a TP52 on the back.

It also had a 40 foot motorboat on the back.

I think that was owned by the guy behind the OneWorld AC syndicate maybe 10 or 15 years ago?

 

And if you plan to have a TP52 on the deck as part of the build / refit, you're probably only giving up the spot where the helicopter used to land....

 

You can do anything with money!

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4 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I once saw a super yacht which had a 40 foot sailboat on the back. As far a superyachts go, it was not so big so it would be easy enough to scale it up and fit a Cookson 50 or a TP52 on the back.

It also had a 40 foot motorboat on the back.

Actually, James Packer's superyacht would be the perfect mothership. A converted tug with an ice rated hull?

 

Image result for arctic p superyacht

 

With a small modification, that aft deck seems perfect for a Maxi 72.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

you forgot the foiling moth.

Way, way above my ability. 

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2 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I once saw a super yacht which had a 40 foot sailboat on the back. As far a superyachts go, it was not so big so it would be easy enough to scale it up and fit a Cookson 50 or a TP52 on the back.

It also had a 40 foot motorboat on the back.

King Harald V of Norway delivers his 8mr on the back of KS Norge

ks-norge_0_1480447.940x1000.jpg

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I know the one you're referring to Hoppy. It has a 40' Yacht on one side & powerboat on the other.

The 8mr is very cool. King have a daughter?

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This is not the same boat I saw in Stockholm, but this is another superyacht moored in the same spot with a yacht on the back.

4868561602_45a3e8bc71_b.jpg

A copter and TP52 will not be an issue.

252905?k=4513&w=962&h=770&q=90&o=c

 

Sadly none of this is within a $55m powerball win budget 

 

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No room on the back, but I saw this in Greece and the tenders in a matching colour looked pretty good. I think a TP52 in a matching colour scheme would look pretty good. Just need to get something similar built with an extra 60 or 70 feet added to the back with a keel well to keep the TP52 low profile.

 

8717228759_b78d5492b9_b1.jpg

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The other option is to get the superyacht you like and get a superyacht support boat built for all of your toys

Fast_Yacht_Support_Garcon.jpg?h=525&la=e

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1 hour ago, Jason AUS said:

Actually, James Packer's superyacht would be the perfect mothership. A converted tug with an ice rated hull?

 

Image result for arctic p superyacht

 

With a small modification, that aft deck seems perfect for a Maxi 72.

 

 

 

We aren't going anywhere cold Jas

Room for a BMW GS 1200 I'm sure..

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2 hours ago, PIL007 said:

We aren't going anywhere cold Jas

Room for a BMW GS 1200 I'm sure..

You don't want to see how the big BMW goes on ice?

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4 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Way, way above my ability. 

when you have $50M and all the time in the world -- hire the world moth champ on a retainer to teach you.

Bikini babes waiting on the beach to massage your bruises and fluff your ego when you get ashore.

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Oh crap, not a single number in last nights powerball draw :( back to my 80k thread....

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can someone answer me this

why the hell did they build a brand new VO65 and then not use another one??

did SCA damage it a bit or did they expect more teams?

seems silly, seeing as they had to put so much effort into making the boat the same

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48 minutes ago, inebriated said:

can someone answer me this

why the hell did they build a brand new VO65 and then not use another one??

did SCA damage it a bit or did they expect more teams?

seems silly, seeing as they had to put so much effort into making the boat the same

Would you buy a used car from a woman driver? ;)

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2 hours ago, inebriated said:

can someone answer me this

why the hell did they build a brand new VO65 and then not use another one??

did SCA damage it a bit or did they expect more teams?

seems silly, seeing as they had to put so much effort into making the boat the same

I think this is pretty clear.

They thought they had a good chance of having 8 boats on the line - at least they thought so at the time they committed to build the 8th boat. AzkoNobel decided that they wanted the new boat - and were prepared to wait for it to be finished (something that arguably didn't work out so well for them.)  So, the VOR had a boat in build, and a team committed to that boat, and well as other teams still coming on board taking up the other boats.  But eventually they never got the 8th team - although there are lots of rumours that there was an 8th team still working on getting things together at the last minute that never made it. The 8th boat was finished and on the water before even all the current teams had signed up. It isn't as if the 8th boat was magicked into existence at the last moment whilst they still had an untaken boat. 

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10 hours ago, hoppy said:

Oh crap, not a single number in last nights powerball draw :( back to my 80k thread....

Melbourne's northern beaches winner. 

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Just now, Francis Vaughan said:

I think this is pretty clear.

They thought they had a good chance of having 8 boats on the line - at least they thought so at the time they committed to build the 8th boat. AzkoNobel decided that they wanted the new boat - and were prepared to wait for it to be finished (something that arguably didn't work out so well for them.)  So, the VOR had a boat in build, and a team committed to that boat, and well as other teams still coming on board taking up the other boats.  But eventually they never got the 8th team - although there are lots of rumours that there was an 8th team still working on getting things together at the last minute that never made it. The 8th boat was finished and on the water before even all the current teams had signed up. It isn't as if the 8th boat was magicked into existence at the last moment whilst they still had an untaken boat. 

ok, yeah

cheers

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6 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Melbourne's northern beaches winner. 

I hate them already :ph34r:

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