martin.langhoff

Harken Carbo Becket Pin Removal

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I have a Harken Carbo triple block with a becket, picture below from Harken website. The becket pin seems to be fixed.

Can it be removed cleanly? If so, how? The relevant Harken manuals don't say a thing about it.

I have a line spliced into it, but I'd like to try a different line, without destroying the splice nor the becket pin.

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5 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

I have a Harken Carbo triple block with a becket, picture below from Harken website. The becket pin seems to be fixed.

Can it be removed cleanly? If so, how? The relevant Harken manuals don't say a thing about it.

I have a line spliced into it, but I'd like to try a different line, without destroying the splice nor the becket pin.

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Normally the becket pin on Harken blocks is a clevis pin with a ringding trough it on one end - easy to remove and re-install.  I'm not sure I have ever seen one with a fixed backet.  If it is fixed - just use a softshackle to attach a line with an eye splice

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I've done what Christian said re using a soft shackle, but you will have to pull or cut the existing splice apart.  Alternatively, you have to drill out the pin from the dimpled side, cut out the molded in bushing between the cheeks with a dremel and cutting wheel (or a hacksaw) then refit with a bushing and regular clevis pin with ringding.   If there is a long enough splice you might save it by moving it to the side while you cut the bushing material away.  With the latter method you can change lines to your heart's content, but I wouln't do it if you are loading the block to it's max SWL as the molded in bushing material may be needed to achieve that rating.

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You guys are echoing my thoughts. I'm getting too fancy.

I'm going to cut the **** splice, and tie a knot like it should have been from day one.

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2 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

You guys are echoing my thoughts. I'm getting too fancy.

I'm going to cut the **** splice, and tie a knot like it should have been from day one.

There is so much wrong with the second part of your sentence

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and what would it be? I don't get the whole idea of dropping into a thread and saying something provocative with nothing to back it up. waste of everyone's time.... 

I'd say if it's a multi purchase block like that then it's likely a mainsheet or some other tackle that has line sized for hand grip rather than strength. So likely whatever strength you lose in the knot vs a splice won't be a factor. And if you're someone who likes fine tuning rigging and reusing rope then a knot allows you to easily try different reeving patterns, leads, block combinations and to recycle the rope for other tasks if you move to a different line. 

If you're never going to change the system and/or have limited room for a knot and/or are building a system to absolute minimums then splices are your friend, sure. but I don't see it... particularly with that Harken Carbo stuff... it's not super strong compared to modern line. I'm 99% sure that's a 40mm block so max working load 1,455#. If it's the fixed block (6:1 which I doubt... probably the moving block so 7:1) then that's 242.5# per leg... so you could almost cover that with 2mm Marlow Excel... barely more than whipping twine... so i think by the time you run some 1/4" DPX so you don't cut your fingers off you've got breaking strength 3,700# 3:1 safety = 1,233#, 30% strength lost to knot = 863#... ya, I'm ok with it...

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2 hours ago, overdraft said:

If you're never going to change the system and/or have limited room for a knot and/or are building a system to absolute minimums then splices are your friend, sure. but I don't see it... particularly with that Harken Carbo stuff... it's not super strong compared to modern line. I'm 99% sure that's a 40mm block so max working load 1,455#. If it's the fixed block (6:1 which I doubt... probably the moving block so 7:1) then that's 242.5# per leg... so you could almost cover that with 2mm Marlow Excel... barely more than whipping twine... so i think by the time you run some 1/4" DPX so you don't cut your fingers off you've got breaking strength 3,700# 3:1 safety = 1,233#, 30% strength lost to knot = 863#... ya, I'm ok with it...

Fully agree with you. I always prefer to splice when I can. But a locket becket is something that I don’t consider I good place to splice though. But then again I don’t like becket blocks where the pin cannot be removed. 

The single block in the carbo 40 series have a safe working load of 485 which I think should be about the same safe working load per sheave in the tripple becket block. Big chance that thats a carbo 57 or carbo 75 block if its used for the mainsheet, even if the picture is of a carbo 40. 

Regardless of which carbo block it is and the safe working load of the block. A tripple carbo blocks in most cases don't have a line run to a winch afterwards or have the line led to further blocks for additional purchase . A line that you can grip well (at least 5mm) even if its a cheap polyester should have a higher breaking load that what you can pull by hand even if you use a knot.

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You guys are spot on. This is for a mainsheet on a small foiling cat, 8mm sk78 core, polyester cover, and it goes to a ratchet block, no cleat.

As such, the splice is nice but hardly needed. I paid top dollar for a tapered line that I'm not liking. A replacement line arrived this morning, so the knives are out to cut that splice open...

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What's wrong with tapered line? For me its the only way to run a mainsheet system. Other areas on the boat can make do without.

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Why don't you keep using a tapered line which is a very good solution, but get a large eye so you can use a luggage tag on the becket? Or do the lines still chafe if you use a luggage tag on the tapered line?

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The taper was badly done, and it's pulling out threads. In addition, I am not liking the line it was made from. A complete mess.

Regular 8mm line, SK78 core but costing 1/3rd is now in place, working much better. I could taper this line maybe.

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There is a difference between tapering and stripping the cover.  In any case, glad you got it sorted. 

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:47 AM, jackolantern said:

There is so much wrong with the second part of your sentence

Its virtually impossible to put an eye splice back into into a used double braid line, meaning that you can either tie a knot or buy a new line.

I ran into this reality when I had a shackle on an eye splice fail on a 45' tack line. Guess how much to replace? On the other hand, tying a knot was free.

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21 hours ago, Parma said:

Its virtually impossible to put an eye splice back into into a used double braid line, meaning that you can either tie a knot or buy a new line.

I ran into this reality when I had a shackle on an eye splice fail on a 45' tack line. Guess how much to replace? On the other hand, tying a knot was free. Seriously compromised the structural integrity of your line  

FTFY

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

FTFY

How so?

Absolutely agree it looks hack, sort of like an inspector gadget approach, but...

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Tying knots in line undermines their structural properties at the knot. IIRC the strength of the line decreases by 50% when a bowline is tied in it. 

 

Splicing also does this but a properly done splice is only about a reduction of 10% 

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gee whiz jack, please read the fucking thread before dropping in with your pearls of wisdom... your first two posts were supposedly provocative one liners with NO information, just some lame attempt to troll people into asking what you meant with your put downs. Your third post alluded to the fact that knots reduce line strength more than splices... EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. WE'VE MOVED ON.  Then your 4th post says THE SAME THING AGAIN. If you read what was going on you'd see that we've concluded that the line is sized for handling and that strength is not an issue. The size of line you need to be able to pull in a beach cat mainsheet can be reduced in strength by 50% with a knot and still be more than enough.

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21 hours ago, overdraft said:

gee whiz jack, please read the fucking thread before dropping in with your pearls of wisdom... your first two posts were supposedly provocative one liners with NO information, just some lame attempt to troll people into asking what you meant with your put downs. Your third post alluded to the fact that knots reduce line strength more than splices... EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. WE'VE MOVED ON.  Then your 4th post says THE SAME THING AGAIN. If you read what was going on you'd see that we've concluded that the line is sized for handling and that strength is not an issue. The size of line you need to be able to pull in a beach cat mainsheet can be reduced in strength by 50% with a knot and still be more than enough.

Good thing I don't sail beach cats then. Not that I have anything against them. But rather it means my likelihood of running into a toolbag like yourself is significantly reduced. 

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never raced a beach cat in my life... the original poster does... you really can't read can you?

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nope. real human. i should just walk away but i'm fascinated by your interaction with this thread and how completely useless your first comments were, providing no further value to the thread, and then how when you finally managed to make a cogent point, it was one that had previously been discussed and dealt with in this context.

Then when i inferred that you hadn't read the actual thread because your one real comment was no longer timely, you concluded that a) i was a beach cat sailor which was incorrect and b ) that i was a 'toolbag' apparently for pointing out that you weren't contributing anything to the thread.

So i guess maybe i should make assumptions about you to square things up? titties in your avatar... poor reading skills... inability to think critically when posed with a problem... just falling back on dogma instead... and finally, resorting to name calling when things don't go your way... i'ma guess you're a teenager with MAYBE a dinghy of some kind...

PS. not throwin' shade on dinghies... just that's where i'm guessing he is in his sailing career.

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9 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Good thing I don't sail beach cats then. Not that I have anything against them. But rather it means my likelihood of running into a toolbag like yourself is significantly reduced. 

i'd pay good money to see that. 

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