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GMiller

Awlwood? Anybody use that can review?

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I have minimal exterior teak on my boat, but refuse to use Cetol again.  I have weathered teak now and have considered Awlwood MA for the toerails.  Anybody have some real-world experience?

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Been playing with it for a while now.

You need to use the primer, can be a bit tricky to get an even primer coat which is important with the tinted ones. Lay it on, wipe off the excess. (RHS sample, note mottled appearance)

The Alwood goes on easily enough, a bit more difficult than standard varnish but not as sensitive  as 2-pack. However it cleans up like 2-pack, you can't just put your brush in thinner and leave it,  needs to be cleaned immediately and suspended.

I've couple of test pieces (Alwood and International Schooner, 6 coats each) exposed to full sun and weather. After 18 months the Schooner (left one in pic, bottoms of samples were unexposed) had attracted more dirt and after cleaning was definitely more weathered than the Alwood. The timber under the Schooner had faded more too. (It had been primed just with thinned varnish.)

Also done my dinghy tiller with Alwood. After 6 months racing it still looks good, no dings. Doesn't see a great deal of sun tho'.

Bottom line, next big varnish job I'll be using Alwood.

DSC_0454.JPG

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I have been using Awlwood for the past 4 years. I stripped all the Cetol off, sanded, and followed the Mfg's instructions. I could not be happier with it. It has held up extremly well and is very durable. Our toe rails look outstanding and the Awlwood has taken the constants wear and tear very well. In the spring I sand any areas that may need to be re-touched, and then apply another coat. I usually apply another total coat to the toe rails. If water gets underneath the Awlwood, the teak turns black and it will need to be removed by sanding. Good adheasion is critical to using the primer. I have the clear gloss on all exterior wood surfaces. My teak has a very deep rich luster. The one down side to it, DO NOT get it on your deck or ANY area that you wish not to.  Once dried, it will not come off or wear off, and will need to be removed by sanding. You must tape all areas off very well to keep it where it goes.  Best place to purchase is Merrit Marine in Fla. They carry everything you need. https://www.merrittsupply.com/product/awlgrip-awlwood-ma-clear-gloss-finish/

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I have done my teak toe rails on my First 40.7.   Stripped off the varnish - re-stained with the red stain because the teak was blotchy as it had a yellow tint.  The Awlwood is very easy to work with.  remember you get what you see so have surface prep done correctly.

I prestained with rag - quick wipe down.

1/2 hr later mixed red stain 5% to 10 % with littler Awlwood thinner put a thin coat

3 hrs later added another coat

next day clear Awlwood

3 hrs later clear awlwood

Then waited for a day or so and sanded with 220 cleaned they put another coat of clear.

One season later it looks as good as the day I applied it.  I will do a touch up coat each year after a light sanding.

One poster remarked about taping - get fine line tape to mask off toe rail as the bleed thru will stain the gel coat. 

Old finish.jpg

3 coats unsanded.jpg

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On 1/16/2018 at 11:57 AM, Lucky Dog said:

I have done my teak toe rails on my First 40.7.   Stripped off the varnish - re-stained with the red stain because the teak was blotchy as it had a yellow tint.  The Awlwood is very easy to work with.  remember you get what you see so have surface prep done correctly.

I prestained with rag - quick wipe down.

1/2 hr later mixed red stain 5% to 10 % with littler Awlwood thinner put a thin coat

3 hrs later added another coat

next day clear Awlwood

3 hrs later clear awlwood

Then waited for a day or so and sanded with 220 cleaned they put another coat of clear.

One season later it looks as good as the day I applied it.  I will do a touch up coat each year after a light sanding.

One poster remarked about taping - get fine line tape to mask off toe rail as the bleed thru will stain the gel coat. 

Old finish.jpg

3 coats unsanded.jpg

36.7?

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4 hours ago, kinardly said:

Do you have to stain the stuff to get a similar look to varnish? 

They make clear and 2 different colour tinted primers. You need to use one of them for best results. I've only used a coloured one but did note that the topcoat is very clear.

Because most trad varnishes have a yellow/brown tint you may want to use a tinted primer, depending on the timber used.

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I've used the Awlwood system and am very happy with it. I will definitely use it in the future in place of varnish. The Awlwood system requires that you use one of three primers (red, yellow, or clear) as the base coat on raw wood. These primers soak into the wood and provide a "surface" for the clear topcoat to adhere to. The reason for the colored primer options is because the Awlwood topcoat is clear with no tint (unlike varnish).

All in all, I'm very happy with the product. I apply with disposable foam brushes and find that it is quicker and easier to get good results than with traditional spar varnish. The clear topcoat builds quicker and multiple coats can be applied the same day. In addition to being more UV stable than varnish, the Awlwood topcoat is also stronger and more resilient to abuse than spar varnish. Abrasion and impacts that crack varnish generally don't cause the same damage to awlwood. In my experience and testing I found that the even if the wood gets dented, the Awlwood continues to adhere without lifting or cracking.

I love the look of traditional varnish, but hate the work that is required to achieve it. IMHO, varnish is an ancient technology. It looks great, but it's not very good at standing up to the elements and abuse. I feel that Awlwood is the next evolution.

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Is awlwood the same as International wood skin .   Awlgrip and international are the same company .

International wood skin is popular ...easy to apply , decent gloss, varnish like colour. 

 

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9 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Is awlwood the same as International wood skin .   Awlgrip and international are the same company .

International wood skin is popular ...easy to apply , decent gloss, varnish like colour. 

 

it doesn't look like the same product. awlwood is a primer/topcoat application, woodskin looks like a single coat of oil-based varnish.

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1 minute ago, ryley said:

it doesn't look like the same product. awlwood is a primer/topcoat application, woodskin looks like a single coat of oil-based varnish.

I cant seem to find a material PDF for awlwood ?

i dont know what it is 

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Awlwood MA is a modified acrylic, apparently developed in NZ by Uroxsys, now sold (owned?) by Akzo Nobel/International/Awlgrip.

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I’ve been stripping the Epiphanes I’ve used for a number of years and re-doing everything on my 46’ wood cutter with Awlwood afterseeing how amazing the catboat Silent Maid looks after 7 years of Awlwood. It’s more of an automotive clear coat material...

You can apply it over existing varnish if it’s in good condition. I took everything down to bare wood and primed with clear primer per advice. The color came up red like the back of a Les Paul guitar without the colored primer. 3 coats out of 8 so far...stopped due to low temps and it looks gorgeous as the photos show

You need to wear an organic vapor respirator mask- it’s extremely dangerous to inhale. And you CANNOT use wood bleach(oxalis acid)or the system will fail.

If the job is pretty small, Jamestown Total Lust finish goes on multiple coats/day and lasts longer and retains color  better than traditional varnishes.

 

69DD63C8-F014-4507-BCDF-2A0592932A73.jpeg

ACCFD4F3-B681-419C-ADF3-26886418EAC5.jpeg

6D44E419-0C91-4FA1-A1E3-A8E258CBA125.jpeg

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Plus, I’m re-doing my Ensign coamings and benches so they look like new for the next 7-10 years. 2008 boat-re-varnished 4 Times already and it’s gotten old so I’m going Awlwood on it 

7090D228-21AE-4BB9-B508-F9DCA7AE360E.jpeg

20EE58FD-A3C9-43B0-9C89-EB1C8D18BA62.jpeg

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Sail4, if you can't use oxalic acid to bleach out the wood, is there anything else you can use, or do you have to just sand it until it's uniform?

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On 2/3/2018 at 6:51 PM, ryley said:

Sail4, if you can't use oxalic acid to bleach out the wood, is there anything else you can use, or do you have to just sand it until it's uniform?

You have to sand by hand to get rid of gray or black wood. It goes quicker than you think with fresh 80 and 100 grit. I use belt sanding paper when there is a tight area. You can cut it into off shapes and sizes to get the work done.

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3 hours ago, Amati said:

Is the Awlwood dew (overnight) sensitive?

Any residual primer “dew” left on the surface after it has cured wipes off clean with a cloth. It just needs to be above 39 degrees while it cures. If you apply it early in the afternoon on a day with humidity it should cure by nighttime. Be sure to apply on one manageable area and then wipe all excess off well in a timely manner.

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2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Any residual primer “dew” left on the surface after it has cured wipes off clean with a cloth. It just needs to be above 39 degrees while it cures. If you apply it early in the afternoon on a day with humidity it should cure by nighttime. Be sure to apply on one manageable area and then wipe all excess off well in a timely manner.

But moisture falling from a clear sky at night will not ruin the finish like Cetol?

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No. Awlwood uses moisture in the air to properly cure. The more moisture the faster it cures. In fact, it is recommended that you don’t use in low humidity. 

 It cures in a few hours like a rub in stain and becomes impermeable to moisture. Cetol and other products don’t develop a hard surface the way Awlwood primer does because they are thick and on the surface. The primer is brushed on like water with a brush and wiped off soon after. There is no real moisture left on the surface and it dries to the touch quickly. The Awlwood ma also dries quickly. I’ve had moisture on it in the morning and no bad side effects. Wipe it off, light sand and re-coat.

Make sure you don’t use oxalic acid to bleach the wood. You have to hand sand to clean wood

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

No. Awlwood uses moisture in the air to properly cure. The more moisture the faster it cures. In fact, it is recommended that you don’t use in low humidity. 

 It cures in a few hours like a rub in stain and becomes impermeable to moisture. Cetol and other products don’t develop a hard surface the way Awlwood primer does because they are thick and on the surface. The primer is brushed on like water with a brush and wiped off soon after. There is no real moisture left on the surface and it dries to the touch quickly. The Awlwood ma also dries quickly. I’ve had moisture on it in the morning and no bad side effects. Wipe it off, light sand and re-coat.

Make sure you don’t use oxalic acid to bleach the wood. You have to hand sand to clean wood

Excellent.  Thankyew vurry much!

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Sail4, thanks for the info. So far, I've gotten 30 yr old floorboards from this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dvqfz7b4u88syaw/20180128_145345.jpg?dl=0

to this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ljn09ywojrlq8nf/20180203_184758.jpg?dl=0

looks like it's time to get out the sanding block. The current progress was done with chemical stripper followed by 80 grit on a festool DA.

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I can’t open the drop box pics, but to alleviate any da swirl marks from the 80 grit that may show up in the deep finish, maybe da with 120 then 220 to reduce the da marks then hand sand with 100 to finish before the primer. 

AMATI, you’re welcome.

any problems/questions, pm me if you need

Also, I suggest avoiding the tinted primer unless the wood doesn’t match after 3 or 4 coats of Awlwood, surprising how mahogany starts to blend after a few coats...

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Maybe this will come through.

20180128_145345.jpg

20180203_184758.jpg

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You’re almost there. Wipe it down with acetone to drive back or wipe off any oils and don’t use a tack cloth, it leaves residue in the grain that botches things up. 

When you wipe with acetone, you’ll see the basic finished hue of the wood. It will look great, it isn’t going to look brand new, just beautiful. My wife won’t let me replace or restore this sole because she likes the aged patina.

F021D6EA-CB13-4348-9640-1E7C1F20C361.jpeg

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thanks for the encouragement. There's a lot I am not sure how to do. The flooring is mounted to a foam/glass sandwich. The bilge pump was (and still is) inadequate in that it was wired up wrong so as you can see from the first picture, the sole got flooded a lot. To fix it, the PO would just lift the floor out and bolt the bowed part down, so there are bolts and holes all over the flooring.

Now that I've got it stripped and in a nice dry room, the boards have dried enough to lay pretty much flat on their own, but there are obvious soft spots where it's unglued from the board and I'm not sure what to do - tape off the holes, fill with epoxy, and weight it down with lead ingots? seal it and forget it? I'm not shooting for perfect, just for 'better.' Sail4, if you've got any suggestions I'm all ears.

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If you have unglued areas you must fix them! Get as much epoxy as you can into them - a syringe may be useful, and weight them down. (Vacuum bagging would be good.....)

Seal all edges with epoxy too.

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fleetwood, what would you recommend for an epoxy for this kind of job? standard west? 

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Any good standard epoxy to wet everything, then fill gaps/delaminations with thickened epoxy, as thick as you can manage to not get gaps & bubbles. It's not structural so whatever filler is handy will do.

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I almost forgot to mention, don’t use their fancy brush cleaner or expensive badger hair brushes. Akzo Nobel “recommends” foam brushes and trim rollers( 3” fine nap  trim rollers that come with their own tray as packaging like you find in the paint isle at a store).

And  if you haven’t purchased the Awlwood yet and the sole is interior and possibly teak?, have you considered just sealing it with teak sealer if it is? At US $80/ quart each for the primer and gloss plus brushes , rollers and acetone, you’re looking at around $200 in materials for the job in Awlwood.

Anyway...today I’m going to start on my new entrance staircase. South American mahogany family hardwood(can’t remember the name til I drink more coffee).  I’ll post some pics of the sanding to show the factory da swirls being removed and the process of priming and applying a first coat before the work crew comes in Saturday to install the new A/C air handler etc. on Saturday.

Get to work!!!

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On 1/18/2018 at 2:34 PM, kinardly said:

Do you have to stain the stuff to get a similar look to varnish? 

No. As light and orange as mahogany is when sanded, it becomes a wonderful red with clear primer and uneven wood tones blend together. If they don’t after 2 coats, then you can consider red or yellow tint to get the wood to match if it’s worth the extra $80. 

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4 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

I almost forgot to mention, don’t use their fancy brush cleaner or expensive badger hair brushes. Akzo Nobel “recommends” foam brushes and trim rollers( 3” fine nap  trim rollers that come with their own tray as packaging like you find in the paint isle at a store).

And  if you haven’t purchased the Awlwood yet and the sole is interior and possibly teak?, have you considered just sealing it with teak sealer if it is? At US $80/ quart each for the primer and gloss plus brushes , rollers and acetone, you’re looking at around $200 in materials for the job in Awlwood.

Anyway...today I’m going to start on my new entrance staircase. South American mahogany family hardwood(can’t remember the name til I drink more coffee).  I’ll post some pics of the sanding to show the factory da swirls being removed and the process of priming and applying a first coat before the work crew comes in Saturday to install the new A/C air handler etc. on Saturday.

Get to work!!!

So, apropos the conversation in the other thread, these are floorboards out of a Herreshoff 28 that my parents own. I know it'll be fairly expensive to do this in awlwood, but it's partly an opportunity to try it out before I commit to it on my Freedom 45. If I make a few mistakes here, a ) my parents will just be grateful they didn't have to do the job and b ) they probably won't own the boat long enough for the flaws to become truly evident ;)

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Checked it out. Looks interesting.

btw, here’s the basic kit for the Awlwood and the foam tape Slug was talking about in the hatch repair thread 

AB7852AF-5314-4533-B9E3-FEED11650A83.jpeg

1F25B2C1-4EFE-44F2-94EF-036CDDEDEA2A.jpeg

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Went to West Marine today to see if I can put my hands on this stuff. They had a case-worth of gloss topcoat in quarts, an empty shelf where the matte topcoat should live, and no evidence of ever stocking the primer in any color. They also had quarts of spray reducer and gallons of brush cleaner. No brushing reducer.

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You need primer and brushing reducer.

Do you have a trade marine supply store nearby? (They're the only places to get Awlgrip stuff here in Oz.)

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You can order it on Amazon. Don’t use expensive brushes and the brush cleaner- it’s a big waste of money and time. Awl recommends foam brushes and low nap trim rollers like the 3” one in the pic above. 

You need to prime first. I would avoid using the colored primer unless after a few coats the wood refuses to blend together color wise.

The brushing reducer is only needed  to thin the final coat or in really hot weather.

 

61AEAA06-E320-4F70-8FBF-92379E1C0A8D.jpeg

0A6EFF77-B008-409C-B93E-D0E44F7D704F.jpeg

D1553E5F-3BFD-4750-BB27-FF3B687C8B24.jpeg

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Primer colour depends on the timber. The topcoat is very clear unlike conventional varnishes so will reflect the timber's colour; if you want to soften or darken it then one of the tints may be preferable.

In warm weather (almost always here) I need to use the reducer.

Agree about brushes/rollers - Awlwood is a PITA to clean up, it acts like 2-pack (solidifies and precipitates in the cleaner), so lots of work to clean brushes.

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