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Grande Mastere Dreade

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Switzerland Outlaws Boiling Lobsters Alive

Every nonfiction fan should read Consider the Lobster, the late David Foster Wallace’s incredible essay on the morality of boiling the crustacean alive simply because it tastes nice. It appears that officials in Switzerland have at least skimmed the essay: New regulations will require food preparers to stun or mechanically destroy a lobster’s brain before immersing it in boiling water. But have they really considered the lobster?

The Guardian reports:

As part of a wider overhaul of Swiss animal protection laws, Bern said that as of 1 March, “the practice of plunging live lobsters into boiling water, which is common in restaurants, is no longer permitted”.

 

personally, I steam the shit out of them,  my wife and I have this argument constantly..

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Do lobsters react to something (hot water) that we perceive as pain? Yes. Do they provide emotive colour to that stimulus? No. In order to feel pain one must perceive it as being unpleasant. A lobster doesn't does not have enough higher cognitive processing to sense hot water as being unpleasant so it does not feel pain. Think knee jerk reflex, you bang tendon and legs kicks forward drop lobster in hot water nerves fire tail bends is this pain because we would perceive as such? No. The Swiss are listening idiots they should stick  to making chocolate and skiing.   

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22 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

Do lobsters react to something (hot water) that we perceive as pain? Yes. Do they provide emotive colour to that stimulus? No. In order to feel pain one must perceive it as being unpleasant. A lobster doesn't does not have enough higher cognitive processing to sense hot water as being unpleasant so it does not feel pain. Think knee jerk reflex, you bang tendon and legs kicks forward drop lobster in hot water nerves fire tail bends is this pain because we would perceive as such? No. The Swiss are listening idiots they should stick  to making chocolate and skiing.   

And hiding money for criminals - that's always been their greatest skill.

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3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

And hiding money for criminals - that's always been their greatest skill.

and making kick-ass army knives

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19 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

And hiding money for criminals - that's always been their greatest skill.

My wife is Swiss I stick to talking about chocolate and skiing and sometime knives. Bringing up collaborating with Nazi's (Oerliken sold guns to Luftwaffe), laundering stolen art (from Jews) only gets my food spat in and a night on the couch   

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35 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

And hiding money for criminals - that's always been their greatest skill.

oh, there are a lot of countries better than the swiss at that..    i believe swiss bank account is just an old movie trope

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1 hour ago, HuronBouy said:

Do lobsters react to something (hot water) that we perceive as pain? Yes. Do they provide emotive colour to that stimulus? No. In order to feel pain one must perceive it as being unpleasant. A lobster doesn't does not have enough higher cognitive processing to sense hot water as being unpleasant so it does not feel pain. Think knee jerk reflex, you bang tendon and legs kicks forward drop lobster in hot water nerves fire tail bends is this pain because we would perceive as such? No. The Swiss are listening idiots they should stick  to making chocolate and skiing.   

Don't forget, they still build a fine mechanical watch.

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9 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

oh, there are a lot of countries better than the swiss at that..    i believe swiss bank account is just an old movie trope

Yeah, the Swiss were forced to give up their bank privacy laws years ago.  I would excpect it was the US that gave them the most pressure.

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1 hour ago, HuronBouy said:

A lobster doesn't does not have enough higher cognitive processing to sense hot water as being unpleasant so it does not feel pain.

You have no evidence of that claim.

 

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39 minutes ago, random said:

You have no evidence of that claim.

 

How about you climb into a tub of boiling water and tell us what it feels like.

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I had a friend in college, who went on to study something or other at a higher level. At one point he was at the Woods Hole Ocean something or other institute at the same time I was at RISD. One weekend I went to visit him. He'd been studying lobster's brains, and particularly their eyes, eyes to brains parts. He said they were much more complex, and advanced than human eyes/ eye brain connections.... I asked him what they did with the lobsters after they studied them. "Well, they're perfectly healthy after we're done, except that they're blind. So we can't throw them back, and we can't sell them to restaurants. A lot go to the prisons, and soup kitchens, but most just get thrown away."

 I took back to the RISD kitchen not only 3 Sea Bass that I'd caught, but about 40 1-2Lb. live lobsters that Sunday night......

 Never showed up on the menu, but the head chef invited me to his house Monday night for a neighborhood block party in a section of town that most RISD and Brown students never see.

 Johnson & Wales is the 3rd school that people go to Providence to study at......

 The food was damned good. The women finer, and if I could dance, I would probably have never left.....

 

BTW, the only way to cook fresh lobster is to dunk them head first into boiling salt water.

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Never sure if it hurts them. Which is why I always use a bath of clarified butter to sooth them immediately after. Just in case. 

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11 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Never sure if it hurts them. Which is why I always use a bath of clarified butter to sooth them immediately after. Just in case. 

With a little lemon, just in case they got a sore throat from the salt water....

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I think that the Swiss law against boiling lobsters would only apply to locally caught Swiss born and bred lobsters...

This is how I have always administered the 'coup de grace' to my lobsters.

Image result for lobster standing on head

 

Really works, even with Spiny Lobsters even though they are harder to get balanced due to not having those big counterweighted claws.

 

I think this girl has got the idea all wrong though

Image result for lobster standing on head

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Back in the day free  diving I'd wring the tail off a spiny lobster stick it in my speedo...let the carapace drop to the bottom...wait for grouper and whatever else to come out from where ever attracted by the still alive front half and shoot them... all legal in the Bahamas with a Hawaiian sling

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46 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

With a little lemon, just in case they got a sore throat from the salt water....

 

58 minutes ago, chinabald said:

Never sure if it hurts them. Which is why I always use a bath of clarified butter to sooth them immediately after. Just in case. 

No, no, no, everybody knows you don't put fat or oil on a burn.  That was 50 years ago!

 

If lobsters had any kind of a brain, then they wouldn't be lobsters would they.

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I suffer a severe case of cognitive dissonance when it comes to my food. I ain't gonna kill it.....but I sure don't mind eating it. Funny thing though....spear fishing never bothered me. I managed live caught bugs pretty much the same way as H2O above........but dropping em boiling water is just........different............fortunately Mrs PB never had the same issues so we had plenty of good lobster nights until they became to scarce to catch. I just avoided the kitchen till the dirty deed was done.............

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Heck, even a kid can do it!

 

I like Davina's vid better. I'd even let her reach in my Speedo to get the lobster out too...

 

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4 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

personally, I steam the shit out of them,  my wife and I have this argument constantly..

Steemed is the proppere meathodiollogey.                              :)

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Nothing wrong with steam.....but an occasional grilled bug is pretty damn good.

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emotive colour is provided by many areas in brain but can be generalized to being described as being "reward areas".  Fat and sugar have high caloric content and we have evolved to like them.  If your cave ancestors did not (preferred salad) you were selected from the gene pool as your caloric intake would not be sufficient when food was in short supply. If you liked pain you injured yourself and died so again you were selected out. So pain is "bad" On the same train of thought sex is intensively pleasurable so we tend to make more of ourselves. This complex behaviour is unlikely in lobsters  they only have 100,000 neurons and the bulk of them are motor/sensory.  So no dislike no "pain".    

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19 hours ago, HuronBouy said:

My wife is Swiss I stick to talking about chocolate and skiing and sometime knives. Bringing up collaborating with Nazi's (Oerliken sold guns to Luftwaffe), laundering stolen art (from Jews) only gets my food spat in and a night on the couch   

Oerliken sold and sell to both sides on more than one occasion. They are truly neutral when it comes to business. :ph34r:

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Do lobsters feel pain when you cook them?

The Lobster Institute has received many inquiries about whether boiling lobsters is humane. Being concerned about this important question, researchers conducted experiments and studied the lobster’s nervous system. The nervous system of a lobster is very simple – not unlike that of an insect. Neither insects nor lobsters have brains. For an organism to perceive pain it must have a more complex nervous system. Neurophysiologists tell us that lobsters, like insects, do not process pain.

Why do lobsters twitch as they cook?

Researchers found that a few seconds after a lobster is dropped in boiling water it will begin to twitch its tail. The tail movement, which continues for approximately one minute, is part of a reflex action found in lobsters and crayfish (but not crabs). Known as the “escape response”, it is a reflex action to any sudden stimulus – a reaction that was first identified by George Johnson in 1924. The lobster is reacting to an external factor, such as an elevated water temperature.

 

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Which begs the question of how do you destroy a lobster's brain prior to cooking in order to prevent suffering? Has it really been established that if you don't have a centralized brain you can't feel pain? If so, how?

Don't get me wrong, I love lobster but I also understand that when I choose to eat it I'm quite possibly subjecting it to intense pain beforehand. Same as eating any meat, just with  a different duration and intensity of suffering.

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17 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Steemed is the proppere meathodiollogey.                              :)

Cooked in an autoclave is just as good!!  We used to take the kids to Seamans Cottages North Eastham on Cape Cod, when they were young.  Lobster place on Rte. 6 where you call in you order and pick them up later, hot out of the autoclave!!  YUMMY!!  Guy at work is selling tickets for a lobster raffle next week.  2 bucks a ticket, and winner on Tuesday takes home a half dozen pound and a halfers!!

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

Which begs the question of how do you destroy a lobster's brain prior to cooking in order to prevent suffering? Has it really been established that if you don't have a centralized brain you can't feel pain? If so, how?

If you give someone morphine for post op pain they will tell you they still feel pain but it does not bother them anymore  the pain is there but their is no suffering  

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9 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

If you give someone morphine for post op pain they will tell you they still feel pain but it does not bother them anymore  the pain is there but there (oops) is no suffering  

fixed

and no morphine does not cause you to have the IQ of  lobster  

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15 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

fixed

and no morphine does not cause you to have the IQ of  lobster  

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about that.  I have had post op morphine and other than the fact that it makes me puke (after the first time I always asked for an antiemetic with it).  I felt like a lobster after 10mg of IV morphine.  A very, very, happy lobster.

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1 hour ago, HuronBouy said:

If you give someone morphine for post op pain they will tell you they still feel pain but it does not bother them anymore  the pain is there but their is no suffering  

same sensation the lobsters feel in boiling water....

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Someone had to do it....

 

 

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10 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I felt like a lobster after 10mg of IV morphine.  A very, very, happy lobster.

Had a hand injury that needed cleaning before stitching up.  Local doctor send me straight to the hospital.

Got there and a nurse said "we will have to medicate you so we can clean that up", as she was prepping the morphine syringe.  She came back later and asked the scale of 10 thing for the pain, I said 7.  Wrong answer,  she hit me with another shot.

Came back and asked again, I said "there is still no way you are going to scrub my hand, it's still aching like shit.  It's a six."

So a doctor pincushions my hand with local aesthetic and proudly announces "well that's fixed it now!"

Me a little ungrateful and a little wasted.  "so why the fuck didn't you do that in the first place!"

I was itching and scratching for days.  Worse than the bench saw injury.

 

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8 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

Someone had to do it....

 

 

Saw them live, they were fucking awesome

I prefer the tacks with the girls fronting.

 

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10 hours ago, random said:

Had a hand injury that needed cleaning before stitching up.  Local doctor send me straight to the hospital.

Got there and a nurse said "we will have to medicate you so we can clean that up", as she was prepping the morphine syringe.  She came back later and asked the scale of 10 thing for the pain, I said 7.  Wrong answer,  she hit me with another shot.

Came back and asked again, I said "there is still no way you are going to scrub my hand, it's still aching like shit.  It's a six."

So a doctor pincushions my hand with local aesthetic and proudly announces "well that's fixed it now!"

Me a little ungrateful and a little wasted.  "so why the fuck didn't you do that in the first place!"

I was itching and scratching for days.  Worse than the bench saw injury.

 

They might have been shorting you on the morphine dose...

 

IMG_2149.JPG.4a20947739034261879698f4ef7849f8.JPG

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As my Swiss Grandfather used to say:  "In Switzerland, if it isn't mandatory.....it's forbidden!"

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2 hours ago, chum said:

They might have been shorting you on the morphine dose...

Yes that is possible.

I told this to a medico and asked him why they did not give me the local first.  He said that the morphine is checked in packs of three and that there has been  theft of the last one or two vials.

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