Spatial Ed

Trump is a racist. Any question?

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2 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Does no one on the right not understand that people in Norway don't want to move to the US since what they have now is better. In fact, on a proportional basis, Norway takes more immigrants than the US.

My great grandfather immigrated from Norway.  I've never been there, I assume its a shithole.

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6 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Does no one on the right not understand that people in Norway don't want to move to the US since what they have now is better. In fact, on a proportional basis, Norway takes more immigrants than the US.

How is this a relevant metric?

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13 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Did you leave because it was a shithole?

It’s like playing T-ball with him, ain’t it?

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15 minutes ago, jzk said:

How is this a relevant metric?

You are either being purposefully obtuse or you are just plain dumb. Norway, along with a dozen or more countries take in more immigrants than does the US but without the fuss and bother. Trump has used the xenophobia or racism, pick a term, of a large segment of the white population to build his political base. Personally he could care less for poor non-whites except that he is able to hire them cheaply at his properties. I think when he is at Mar-a-Lago it might be a good idea to eat only at randomly selected Mickey Dees. Eating a steak cooked in his kitchens might not be wise.

How could Trump supporters not understand that they are being played by a very canny conman. He wants to bring manufacturing back to the US but makes no effort to do so with his own products. He goes on about immigrants from poor countries but is happy to exploit them in his businesses.

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https://www.vox.com/world/2018/1/12/16885546/trump-asian-american-intelligence-briefing

Trump reportedly interrupted intel briefing to ask Korean American, “Where are you from?”

He suggested the “pretty Korean lady,” who was talking about Pakistan, be reassigned to North Korea.

By Zack Beauchamp@zackbeauchampzack@vox.com  Jan 12, 2018, 3:16pm EST

n the wake of President Trump’s comment about wanting to stop immigration from “shithole countries,” NBC News did a deep dive into Trump’s history of racist comments. The piece, published on Friday and written by Vivian Salama and Hallie Jackson, begins with an eye-opening anecdote about a White House intelligence briefing derailed by Trump’s racial issues:

A career intelligence analyst who is an expert in hostage policy stood before President Donald Trump in the Oval Office last fall to brief him on the impending release of a family long held in Pakistan under uncertain circumstances.

It was her first time meeting the president, and when she was done briefing, he had a question for her.

”Where are you from?” the president asked, according to two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange.

New York, she replied.

Trump was unsatisfied and asked again, the officials said. Referring to the president’s hometown, she offered that she, too, was from Manhattan. But that’s not what the president was after.

He wanted to know where “your people” are from, according to the officials, who spoke off the record due to the nature of the internal discussions.

After the analyst revealed that her parents are Korean, Trump turned to an adviser in the room and seemed to suggest her ethnicity should determine her career path, asking why the “pretty Korean lady” isn’t negotiating with North Korea on his administration’s behalf, the officials said.

A few thoughts on this anecdote, sourced to “two officials with direct knowledge of the exchange”:

  1. Being interrogated about your background is a kind of ordinary racism that Asian Americans often have to face. One’s boss interrupting a really important work event to do it is, as the Washington Post’s Brian Fung tweeted, “every Asian-American’s worst employment nightmare.”
  2. Think carefully about what the president is saying here. By asking her “where are you from” and not accepting New York as an answer, he’s implying that children of Asian immigrants can never truly be “from” America. This isn’t just simple bigotry; it feels like a rejection of the classic American “melting pot” ideal altogether.
  3. Trump was so distracted by the question of his briefer’s ethnic background that he interrupted a briefing on hostages held by a terrorist group in Pakistan to interrogate her about it. This suggests he wasn’t really paying attention to what she was saying — that racism literally distracted him from doing his job.
  4. Trump’s racism seems to make him a truly terrible manager. There’s no reason that being of Korean descent means an intelligence expert on hostage situations should be reassigned to North Korea, let alone put in charge of nuclear negotiations.
  5. Let’s not sleep on the sexism of calling her a “pretty Korean lady,” reducing a professional woman to her physical appearance.
  6. The intelligence community lags behind the rest of the government on racial diversity and gender equity. It is 10 percentage points whiter than the US government average, per a 2016 survey, and about 5 percentage points more male. This woman probably had to overcome a lot to get to where she ended up, and this is where she landed.

In sum: The president of the United States, the person who’s supposed to represent the best of the country, behaved in a fashion that would likely get a midlevel manager at a company fired. It’s just another day in the Trump White House.

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46 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

You are either being purposefully obtuse or you are just plain dumb. Norway, along with a dozen or more countries take in more immigrants than does the US but without the fuss and bother. Trump has used the xenophobia or racism, pick a term, of a large segment of the white population to build his political base. Personally he could care less for poor non-whites except that he is able to hire them cheaply at his properties. I think when he is at Mar-a-Lago it might be a good idea to eat only at randomly selected Mickey Dees. Eating a steak cooked in his kitchens might not be wise.

How could Trump supporters not understand that they are being played by a very canny conman. He wants to bring manufacturing back to the US but makes no effort to do so with his own products. He goes on about immigrants from poor countries but is happy to exploit them in his businesses.

You didn't explain how it is a relevant metric.  It might be showing the opposite of what you purport.  What if the US opened up its immigration policy.  Do you think that Norway would still take in more?

 

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31 minutes ago, jzk said:

You didn't explain how it is a relevant metric.  It might be showing the opposite of what you purport.  What if the US opened up its immigration policy.  Do you think that Norway would still take in more?

 

OK, I will take it that you are in fact just dumb. I have nothing further to say.

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10 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

OK, I will take it that you are in fact just dumb. I have nothing further to say.

Ok, clown, it is like this.  A country that is more desirable might not be letting everyone and their asshole brother in.  A country more desperate for immigrants might let many more people in.  It is a metric that shows the opposite of what you contend.

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12 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

OK, I will take it that you are in fact just dumb. I have nothing further to say.

Took you long enough.

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2 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

OK, I will take it that you are in fact just dumb. I have nothing further to say.

Calling JerKZ "just dumb" is actually rather complimentary.

Actively ignorant and stupid is a more accurate description.

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48 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Calling JerKZ "just dumb" is actually rather complimentary.

Actively ignorant and stupid is a more accurate description.

Oh look, the pussy brigade is out in full force today.

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

Oh look, the pussy brigade is out in full force today.

Grabbing them as fast as we can!

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I am going to have to agree with Michael Steele, at this point there is no real question as to Trump's racism. Any reasonable doubt has been removed by his own words. With that being said, until he is out of office, legislators will need to continue to work with him, and the military will need to continue following his orders. My preference would be to see his impeachment proceed in short order, but if someone does work with him to advance a non-racist piece of legislation they both support, I don't believe that makes the legislator racist.

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7 minutes ago, Captain Gigi said:

 

Oh really! I think it's obvious that Trump was referring to peoples conjecture about Regans  mental health not the actuality.

Posting shit like this just brings you down to the socks level.

 

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Read up on the consent decree's in the 70's.

F-off  are you the same man you were in the 70’s?  I have the balls to admit I am not.

 

Really, most of the reporters were either not born yet or in diapers in the 70’s. 

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5 minutes ago, Snore said:

F-off  are you the same man you were in the 70’s?  I have the balls to admit I am not.

 

Really, most of the reporters were either not born yet or in diapers in the 70’s. 

Is there ANY evidence that Trump has changed one iota since the consent degree in the 70s? That he is NOT racist AF?

Because the overwhelming evidence is that he IS still very, very racist.

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6 hours ago, Dog said:

Fuck off...I come from a majority black country that ranks #6 in the world for gdp per capita way above the US at number 18.

link? I can't find any reference that quotes the USA being 18th in the world for gdp PC

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12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

How many times should a person make slightly-over-the-line racist comments before you are willing to conclude he is in fact a racist? Forever?

Frankly I don't understand the outrage. It's just more of the same; now if he'd proposed putting the KKK in charge of immigration vetting, now that would be ........ well, never mind. Some would take it as a suggestion.

-DSK

don't understand the outrage myself, and it is just more of the same, i.e. a shameless, pathetic circus..zzz, zzz

disgusting.

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5 hours ago, Snore said:

F-off  are you the same man you were in the 70’s?  I have the balls to admit I am not.

Really, most of the reporters were either not born yet or in diapers in the 70’s. 

I wasn't racist in the 70's and I'm not now.

Trump was and is.

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I think that many of us had ill informed attitudes to a whole host of things 50 years ago. What was not considered "racist" then certainly would be today. I know I'm still "guilty" of subconscious racist thoughts.

The difference is I acknowledge them for what they are, a hangover from attitudes  learned in childhood from overtly racist  parents and relations..I've learned whats ignorant and wrong. The trouble is that some people are too insecure to examine their thoughts and attitudes.

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15 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I think that many of us had ill informed attitudes to a whole host of things 50 years ago. What was not considered "racist" then certainly would be today. I know I'm still "guilty" of subconscious racist thoughts.

The difference is I acknowledge them for what they are, a hangover from attitudes  learned in childhood from overtly racist  parents and relations..I've learned whats ignorant and wrong. The trouble is that some people are too insecure to examine their thoughts and attitudes.

Agreed. Fifty years ago I thought my pants were a perfectly suitable place to crap.

One of my earliest memories though was of my father taking me aside and telling me that he never, ever wanted to hear me say the word "Nigger". It wasn't a punishment or scolding. I just remember him stopping me on the front yard when we were out there together and saying it.

This was pretty young, since it was when we lived in RI before I moved out to Ohio in 1972. So I was maybe four or five. Probably there were neighborhood kids saying it around me and he wanted to make sure I was sorted, though I was certainly young enough to be picking up words from other kids.

People tend to learn these things at their parent's knees. One of my grandmothers was of the old school racist AF when you asked her about it, though it was New England style, as you wouldn't talk about it or say anything unless pressed. My liberal parents had some disagreements with her when they had a black friend stay on their couch for a while shortly after they got married.... We had a discussion where I learned that she thought the internment of the Japanese was good and proper and probably saved lives, but got quite indignant when I suggested that her father and grandparents should have been interned then too, since they only spoke German in the home when her father was young. "It's DIFFERENT" she maintained, though couldn't explain why. My great-grandfather spoke English, but his parents were fresh off the boat Germans and never really learned English well enough to speak it at home (I guess I can say "krauts" and "micks" given my ancestry, eh?") What's weird though is my Great-grandfather never seemed to have his daughter's prejudices; I think she learned them from her mother.

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I wasn't racist in the 70's and I'm not now.

Trump was and is.

What should we make of your admitted bias in favor of Philipinos.

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12 minutes ago, Dog said:

What should we make of your admitted bias in favor of Philipinos.

nothing .

Racism : prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

very different to being in favor of .

 

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9 minutes ago, Mid said:

nothing .

Racism : prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

very different to being in favor of .

 

Really....SJB said in another thread that when he got a Pilipino job applicant they were likely to get the job. If instead he had said that when he got a white applicant they were likely to get the job would you view that the same way? Favoring one race over another is racism.

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4 minutes ago, Dog said:

Favoring one race over another is racism.

nope , discriminating against is .

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22 minutes ago, Mid said:

nope , discriminating against is .

So if SJB has two job applicants, one black and one Philipino, it's not discriminatory to hire the Philipino because he prefers Philipino employees?

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nope , a preference for an employee can hardly be constituted as the belief that one's own race is superior.

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'There's no other word but racist': Trump's global rebuke for 'shithole' remark
Patrick Wintour, Jason Burke and Anna Livsey
Sat 13 Jan 2018

US diplomats around the world were summoned for formal reproach, amid global shock over Trump calling African nations, Haiti and El Salvador ‘shitholes’

3500.jpg.84bc548ede70f607171e452b5d8d7418.jpg
Trump suggested the US should bring more immigrants from Norway, not ‘shithole countries’.
Photograph: Jonathan Ernst/Reuters

Donald Trump has been branded a shocking and shameful racist after it was credibly reported he had described African nations, as well as Haiti and El Salvador as “shitholes” and questioned why so many of their citizens had ever been permitted to enter America.

US diplomats around the world were summoned for formal reproach, amid global shock that such crude remarks could ever be made in a semi-public meeting by the president of America.

In a strongly-worded statement, the UN said it was impossible to describe his remarks as anything other than racist, while the Vatican decried Trump’s words as “particularly harsh and offensive”.

The 55-nation African Union said the remarks were “clearly racist”.

Trump initially allowed reported accounts of his comments to go unchallenged, but went into damage limitation mode on Friday, insisting he had not used derogatory words – but admitting that the language he had used at a meeting with Senators on immigration was “tough”.

But the democratic senator Dick Durbin – who was present at the meeting with Trump on Thursday – insisted that the reports were entirely accurate.

[video=youtube;FarNqgGCGDg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FarNqgGCGDg[/video]

Trump's 'shithole' comments 'racist and vile', says top Democrat – video He said “those hate-filled things and did so repeatedly”.

“Shithole was the exact word used once not twice but repeatedly,” Durbin said, adding that the word was specifically used in the context of African countries.

The UN human rights spokesman, Rupert Colville, told a Geneva news briefing: “There is no other word one can use but racist. You cannot dismiss entire countries and continents as ‘shitholes’, whose entire populations, who are not white, are therefore not welcome.”

Trump's 'shithole countries' remark is racist, says UN - video Salvador Sánchez, the president of El Salvador, said Trump’s words had “struck at the dignity of Salvadorans”.

“El Salvador formally protests and energetically rejects this kind of comment,” Sánchez wrote on Twitter.

US diplomats and the US embassy in San Salvador sought to assure those in El Salvador of their respect for the country. Jean Manes, the US envoy to El Salvador, tweeted in Spanish: “I have had the privilege to travel around this beautiful country and meet thousands of Salvadorans. It is an honour to live and work here. We remain 100% committed.”

Robin Diallo, the US chargé d’affaires to Haiti, was summoned to meet the Haitian president, Jovenel Moïse, to discuss the remarks. The former Haitian president Laurent Lamothe expressed his dismay, saying Trump had shown “a lack of respect and ignorance”.

Across Africa there was diplomatic fury. Botswana’s government called Trump’s comment “reprehensible and racist” and said the US ambassador had been summoned to clarify whether the nation was regarded as a “shithole” country after years of cordial relations.

Uganda’s state minister for international relations, Henry Okello Oryem, called the remarks “unfortunate and regrettable”.

The African Union said it was alarmed by Trump’s language. “Given the historical reality of how many Africans arrived in the United States as slaves, this statement flies in the face of all accepted behaviour and practice,” its spokeswoman Ebba Kalondo told Associated Press.

Jessie Duarte, the deputy secretary general of South Africa’s ruling ANC, said: “Ours is not a shithole country; neither is Haiti or any other country in distress. It’s not as if the United States doesn’t have problems. There is unemployment in the US, there are people who don’t have healthcare services.”

The leader of South Africa’s main opposition party, Mmusi Maimane, described the comments as “abhorrent”. He tweeted of Trump:


Mmusi Maimane (@MmusiMaimane) The comments referred to here are abhorrent. He confirms a patronizing view of Africa and promotes a racist agenda. Africa/US relations will take strain from this, with a leader who has failed to reconcile humanity. The hatred of Obama’s roots now extends to an entire continent https://t.co/Kq09tVu0Bo
January 12, 2018


The US state department tried to pour water on the flames, issuing a tweet from its Bureau of African Affairs saying that “the United States will continue to robustly, enthusiastically and forcefully engage in #Africa, promoting this vital relationship”.

Mexico’s former president, Vicente Fox, who has been an outspoken critic of Trump, said in a colourful tweet that “America’s greatness was built on diversity”. He added Trump’s mouth was “the foulest shithole in the world. With what authority do you announce who is welcome in America and who is not? America’s greatness is based on diversity, or have you forgotten your migration background, Donald?”

David Miliband, the president of the International Rescue Committee, said Trump’s comments were leading a “race to the bottom on refugees”.

Trump has made few references to Africa since his election, and many senior Africa-focused posts in his administration remain unfilled.

In September, he appeared to invent a new country called Nambia while addressing African leaders in Washington. Trump also told them: “I have so many friends going to your countries, trying to get rich. It has a tremendous business potential.”

The US government’s Africa Media Hub made an effort to limit the diplomatic damage of the president’s words.

Without directly referring to Trump’s statement, a tweet said the “US remains committed to working together w/Africans to realize the promise of a more peaceful, more productive, more prosperous 21st century Africa. US deeply respects the people of #Africa & values its partnerships with them.”

Boniface Mwangi, a well-known social activist in Kenya tweeted:


Boniface Mwangi (@bonifacemwangi) Africa isn’t a shithole. It’s the most beautiful continent in the world. Beautiful,hardworking people. We have diamonds, gold, iron, cobalt, uranium, copper, bauxite, silver, petroleum, cocoa, coffee, tea etc. Sadly we have #shithole leaders like Trump shitting on us everyday. pic.twitter.com/Vv4Wgtq4Pk
January 12, 2018


Standing at a coffee stall outside an office block in Rosebank, a commercial and business neighbourhood in central Johannesburg, Blessing Dlamini, a 45-year-old administrative assistant, said Trump’s words came as “no surprise”.

“He has shown the world he is a racist. We should just block him from our thoughts,” Dlamini said.

theguardian.com

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6 minutes ago, Mid said:

nope , a preference for an employee can hardly be constituted as the belief that one's own race is superior.

I see.... So it's not racist for a white guy to believe that Asians are superior to Hispanics?

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9 minutes ago, Dog said:

I see.... So it's not racist for a white guy to believe that Asians are superior to Hispanics?

 

The word you're looking for is prejudiced.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/127685/what-is-the-word-for-cronyism-based-on-favoring-an-ethnic-or-religious-backgroun

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6 minutes ago, Mid said:

No, I'm going to stick with racism. This is just one of many definitions that support my view.

racism (countable and uncountable, plural racisms)

  1. The belief in distinct human races with each having their intrinsic attributes.
  2. The belief that one race or ethnic group is superior or inferior to another race or group of races.
  3. Prejudice or discrimination based upon race or ethnicity

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22 minutes ago, Dog said:

I see.... So it's not racist for a white guy to believe that Asians are superior to Hispanics?

Assigning a value to an individual based on race is racist.  Choosing an Asian  over a Hispanic might be, if you did it based on race and not individual character.

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1 minute ago, Spatial Ed said:

Assigning a value to an individual based on race is racist.  Choosing an Asian  over a Hispanic might be, if you did it based on race and not individual character.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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1 minute ago, Spatial Ed said:

Assigning a value to an individual based on race is racist.  Choosing an Asian  over a Hispanic might be, if you did it based on race and not individual character.

Yes, of course it is.  That is Dog's point.  Mid is the one trying to argue that preferring one race over another is not racist as long as it is not your race.

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Now apply that to what trump said.  He doesn’t want individuals from shithole black countries.  But individuals from Norway are A-OK.

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Just now, Spatial Ed said:

Now apply that to what trump said.  He doesn’t want individuals from shithole black countries.  But individuals from Norway are A-OK.

You are a liar.  There is no evidence that Trump said he didn't want individuals from shithole black countries.  But, there is certainly a case to be made that the countries he mentioned are shitholes.

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7 minutes ago, jzk said:

You are a liar.  There is no evidence that Trump said he didn't want individuals from shithole black countries.  But, there is certainly a case to be made that the countries he mentioned are shitholes.

He said he didn't want people from shithole countries like Haiti and Africa.

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6 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I think that many of us had ill informed attitudes to a whole host of things 50 years ago. What was not considered "racist" then certainly would be today. I know I'm still "guilty" of subconscious racist thoughts.

The difference is I acknowledge them for what they are, a hangover from attitudes  learned in childhood from overtly racist  parents and relations..I've learned whats ignorant and wrong. The trouble is that some people are too insecure to examine their thoughts and attitudes.

Another problem is that a lot of people seem to LIKE hateful nonsense.

-DSK

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Just now, Spatial Ed said:
8 minutes ago, jzk said:

You are a liar.  There is no evidence that Trump said he didn't want individuals from shithole black countries.  But, there is certainly a case to be made that the countries he mentioned are shitholes.

He said he didn't want people from shithole countries like Haiti and Africa.

Careful, you don't want to try and pull JZK's fairy cloud-castle of dreams to the ground. We're actually better off with him floating up there, anyway

-DSK

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2 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

He said he didn't want people from shithole countries like Haiti and Africa.

Exactly.  No mention of race.

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1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

Another problem is that a lot of people seem to LIKE hateful nonsense.

-DSK

Hmm..insecure people often seek refuge in hate.

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Careful, you don't want to try and pull JZK's fairy cloud-castle of dreams to the ground. We're actually better off with him floating up there, anyway

-DSK

Hey Clownboy, did you ever find that case where Trump was "convicted of racism?"

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Just now, jzk said:

Exactly.  No mention of race.

ah..but then went straight to yearning for Norway...maybe he's just simply stupid but if one says they don't want Africans and prefer Norwegians most people with the slightest sensibility will assume they are not talking about a preference for Herring. 

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5 minutes ago, jzk said:
7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Careful, you don't want to try and pull JZK's fairy cloud-castle of dreams to the ground. We're actually better off with him floating up there, anyway

-DSK

Hey Clownboy, did you ever find that case where Trump was "convicted of racism?"

I heard Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio tell the crowd all about it, back during the 2016 campaign. Weren't you paying attention?

-DSK

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9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I heard Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio tell the crowd all about it, back during the 2016 campaign. Weren't you paying attention?

-DSK

You get your information third hand and then proclaim it as if it was a fact?

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3 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

If he didn't mention Norway, then maybe.

Norway is not a shithole country.  He didn't mention race.  You have no proof of anything.  Neither of us knows what is in his heart and mind.  Meanwhile, you are just smearing him.

That being said, he is wrong.  He is wrong just like all you clown protectionists are wrong.  We would all be better off if there was free trade including the free flow of labor and including no government supported unions.

But wrong on trade does not make one a racist.  Stick to the facts.

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

Norway is not a shithole country.  He didn't mention race.  You have no proof of anything.  Neither of us knows what is in his heart and mind.  Meanwhile, you are just smearing him.

That being said, he is wrong.  He is wrong just like all you clown protectionists are wrong.  We would all be better off if there was free trade including the free flow of labor and including no government supported unions.

But wrong on trade does not make one a racist.  Stick to the facts.

You are nose blind.  Like the cat owner who doesn't smell the urine on the carpet, your own racism clouds your ability to see it in others.

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3 hours ago, Dog said:

Really....SJB said in another thread that when he got a Pilipino job applicant they were likely to get the job. If instead he had said that when he got a white applicant they were likely to get the job would you view that the same way? Favoring one race over another is racism.

Filipino isn’t a race. 

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3 hours ago, Mid said:

nothing .

Racism : prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

very different to being in favor of .

 

No, same as some one saying they are in favor of whities, spics, gooks, slants, ragheads, pakkies......

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19 hours ago, Dog said:

Fuck off...I come from a majority black country that ranks #6 in the world for gdp per capita way above the US at number 18.

International Monetary Fund #6 Norway, United States #11

World Bank #6 Ireland. United States #9

C.I.A.#6 Brunei. United States #13

Edit to Add: Hard to keep up when Dog hides so many threads and posts.

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20 hours ago, jzk said:

Let's be honest.  The left doesn't give a rats ass whether Trump is racist or not.  It is a political smear tactic and nothing more.

Let's be honest. I think you are a shithole. This is a personal opinion, and nothing more.

I care about American values and traditions. I care about equal treatment under the law. I care that my wife was born in (shithole) Vietnam with her 10 brothers and sisters and that they came off food stamps despite having "no skills" and ALL went to college. They are now are doctors, engineers and pharmacists, paying back a thousandfold their indebtedness to America with cheerful, diligent effort. America in some way met national obligations incurred by that spasm of violence and enabled her to leave the day Saigon fell. I care that you and your ilk would denigrate America's proud history and difficult days and sell it for momentary political advantage.

You are disappointing. Go find some morals and some patriotism, then come back and chat. I like immigrants more than I like you and other deplorable Americans.

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29 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

International Monetary Fund #6 Norway, United States #11

World Bank #6 Ireland. United States #9

C.I.A.#6 Brunei. United States #13

Edit to Add: Hard to keep up when Dog hides so many threads and posts.

cite please

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15 hours ago, LenP said:

I am going to have to agree with Michael Steele, at this point there is no real question as to Trump's racism. Any reasonable doubt has been removed by his own words.

Steele comes on to a local radio show once/week. The thing you don't pick up in reading his thoughts about Trump is his anger and frustration. He was seriously pissed off in the interview. For some reason, the segment isn't posted online yet. Anyhow, I've never heard him so riled up.

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The New York Times takes Donald Trump to the wood shed.

Donald Trump Flushes Away America’s Reputation

By THE EDITORIAL BOARDJAN. 12, 2018

For a fleeting moment Tuesday, President Trump seemed to signal he would do the right thing on immigration. At a 90-minute meeting with congressional Republicans and Democrats, much of it televised, he said he’d be willing to “take the heat” for a broad immigration deal of the sort urgently needed by the country and despised by his hard-core base.

Alas, it was all a charade. The real Donald Trump was back two days later with his now notorious “shithole” remark, asking why the United States should accept people from places like Haiti or Africainstead of nice Nordic countries like Norway, and then tweeting his tiresome demands for a “Great Wall” along the Mexican border.

Never mind that Norwegians are not clamoring to leave what is rated as the happiest nation on earth, and setting aside renewed questions about Mr. Trump’s fitness, the flip-flop left the issue of immigration more confused than before.

Where to begin? How about with a simple observation: The president of the United States is a racist. And another: The United States has a long and ugly history of excluding immigrants based on race or national origin. Mr. Trump seems determined to undo efforts taken by presidents of both parties in recent decades to overcome that history.

Mr. Trump denied making the remarks on Friday, but Senator Richard Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, who attended the meeting, said the president did in fact say these “hate-filled things, and he said them repeatedly.”

Of course he did. Remember, Mr. Trump is not just racist, ignorant, incompetent and undignified. He’s also a liar.

Even the president’s most sycophantic defenders didn’t bother denying the reports. Instead they justified them. Places like Haiti really are terrible, they reminded us. Never mind that many native-born Americans are descended from immigrants who fled countries (including Norway in the second half of the 19th century) that were considered hellholes at the time.

No one is denying that Haiti and some of these other countries have profound problems today. Of course, those problems are often a direct result of policies and actions of the United States and European nations: to name just a few, kidnapping and enslaving their citizens; plundering their natural resources; propping up their dictators and corrupt regimes; and holding them financially hostage for generations.

The United States has long held itself out as a light among nations based on the American ideal of equality. But the deeper history tells a different story.

The sociologists David Scott FitzGerald and David Cook-Martin have shownthat the United States pioneered racially based exclusionary immigration policies in the Americas in the late 18th and 19th centuries. (Not long before he was elected president, for example, Theodore Roosevelt asserted the bigoted but then-common view that the Chinese should be kept out of America because they were “racially inferior.”)

It should sober Americans to know that authoritarian governments in Chile, Cuba and Uruguay ended racist immigration policies decades before the United States.

The current turmoil over immigration conflates several separate issues. One is DACA, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which has provided temporary work permits and reprieves from deportation for undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children. These are the so-called Dreamers, who number about 800,000.

Another issue is the Temporary Protected Status program under which undocumented foreigners who were in the United States when disaster or conflict struck their homeland are allowed to remain in the United States. In November, the Trump administration ended the protection for about 60,000 Haitians, and on Monday the administration lifted it for almost 200,000 Salvadorans, most of whom have been in the United States for two decades.

A third issue is the future of the roughly 11 million undocumented immigrants who have come to the United States over decades and have effectively integrated into American life. The Trump administration has ordered a broad immigration crackdown against them.

And finally there’s President Trump’s imagined wall.

What is concerning is not the wall, or the word “shithole” or the vacillation on the Dreamers or the Salvadorans. It’s what ties all of these things together: the bigoted worldview of the man behind them.

Anyone who has followed Mr. Trump over the years knows this. We knew it in the 1970s, when he and his father were twice sued by the Justice Department for refusing to rent apartments to black people. We knew it in 1989, when he took out a full-page newspaper ad calling for the execution of five black and Latino teenagers charged with the brutal rape of a white woman in Central Park. (The men were convicted but later exonerated by DNA and other evidence, but Mr. Trump never apologized, and he continued to argue as late as 2016 that the men were guilty.) We knew it when he built a presidential campaign by demonizing Mexicans and Muslims while promoting the lie that America’s first black president wasn’t born here. Or when, last summer, he defended marchers in a neo-Nazi parade as “very fine people.”

Just last month, The Times reported on an Oval Office meeting on immigration during which Mr. Trump said that the 15,000 Haitians now living in the United States “all have AIDS,” and that Nigerian immigrants would never “go back to their huts” in Africa once they had seen the United States. See a pattern yet?

Donald Trump is by no means America’s first racist president. But he ran a campaign explicitly rooted in bigotry, exclusion and white resentment. To his die-hard but ever-shrinking base, comments like those he made Thursday only reaffirm his solidarity with the cause. The Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website, certainly saw it this way. “This is encouraging and refreshing, as it indicates Trump is more or less on the same page as us with regards to race and immigration,” the site wrote in a post.

The meeting at which Mr. Trump spewed his vulgarity was meant to be a discussion of bipartisan immigration proposals by Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, and Mr. Durbin. Two other Republicans, John Kasich and Jeb Bush Jr., are the authors of an Op-Edarticle in Thursday’s Times arguing against the forced expulsion of undocumented immigrants who have made a home in the United States. This shouldn’t be a hard call, especially with the economy growing modestly but steadily and unemployment hovering around 4 percent.

Instead, Republicans in Congress are spending most of their time finding ways to avoid talking about their openly bigoted chief executive. Some claimed not to have heard what Mr. Trump said. Others offered tepid defenses of his “salty” talk. House Speaker Paul Ryan called Mr. Trump’s comments “unhelpful,” clearly wishing he could return to his daily schedule of enriching the wealthiest Americans.

Mr. Trump has made clear that he has no useful answers on immigration. It’s up to Congress to fashion long-term, humane solutions. A comprehensive immigration bill that resolves all these issues would be best. But if that is not possible, given the resistance of hard-core anti-immigration activists in Congress, legislators should at least join forces to protect the Dreamers, Salvadorans, Haitians and others threatened by the administration’s cruel and chaotic actions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/12/opinion/donald-trump-flushes-away-americas-reputation.html?_r=0

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5 hours ago, Dog said:

What should we make of your admitted bias in favor of Philipinos.

As might be expected you are too clueless to understand the difference between race and culture.

Or between racism and bigotry - likely because you are both.

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8 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:
Tim Miller
 
 
Shithole countries is a classic in the frustrating “Trump gaffe” genre. Saying something despicable that makes elites clutch their pearls but gets a majority of people nodding their heads

The majority are racist? I take it you are admitting you are a racist?

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12 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

The majority are racist? I take it you are admitting you are a racist?

Nah, he's clutching his very own pearl necklace (probably courtesy of a racist).  

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16 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

What majority? The majority is outraged, and the party of Lincoln is silent.

Ask the author of the statement.  I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit.   That had zero to do with race.  A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.  

  

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34 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Ask the author of the statement.  I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit.   That had zero to do with race.  A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.   

Then who will clean your swimming pool and pick your strawberries?

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4 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Ask the author of the statement.  I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit.   That had zero to do with race.  A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.  

  

America has always been a cultural and demographic experiment. We are and have always been a nation of immigrants. There is a shift in our feelings about immigration, and I am relaxed about letting the masses come to our shores but understand how some like yourself want to raise the drawbridge. I think that your views as we move down the road, will be seen as an antiquated idea and I hope your idea about immigration ends up in the dustbin of history. 

America is not going to be changed by an immigration boom, we have had them before and got through them just fine. America was never supposed to look like a Norman Rockwell painting and we have done far better celebrating diversity than trying to lock it out.

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I'm from a multi race family and guess what, we all think Trump is awesome! I have done many trips to these countries mentioned and yes the countries suck not the people and that's what Trump was saying bonehead!

 

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9 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I think that your views as we move down the road, will be seen as an antiquated idea and I hope your idea about immigration ends up in the dustbin of history.

That is the fate of all conservative ideas. They are, and always have been, on the wrong side of history.

All conservatives ever accomplish is to slow down the progress of the human race.

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10 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

America has always been a cultural and demographic experiment. We are and have always been a nation of immigrants. There is a shift in our feelings about immigration, and I am relaxed about letting the masses come to our shores but understand how some like yourself want to raise the drawbridge. I think that your views as we move down the road, will be seen as an antiquated idea and I hope your idea about immigration ends up in the dustbin of history. 

America is not going to be changed by an immigration boom, we have had them before and got through them just fine. America was never supposed to look like a Norman Rockwell painting and we have done far better celebrating diversity than trying to lock it out.

I have no problem letting people in as long as they pay their own way.  Bringing people in that suck on the government tit is something we can no longer afford. 

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6 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I have no problem letting people in as long as they pay their own way.  Bringing people in that suck on the government tit is something we can no longer afford. 

We built this nation on the backs of immigrants and they prospered and thrived. The responsibility lies with the government to ensure that the influx of immigrants have jobs and can contribute without ending up on the government teat.

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47 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Ask the author of the statement.  I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit.   That had zero to do with race.  A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.  

  

Well, there you go again.

WTF would a doctor move into the USA?

Over the past umpty years (since WW2), the USA has been a place where smart young people from anywhere in the world CAN BECOME doctors. In one short year, that has reversed.

There is a tide now where PhD level professionals from other coutries and other cultures are moving "back home" and in some cases having a hard time adjusting. Same reason we don't need a wall anymore, even if Mexico does pay for it: furriners are not welcome and don't want to come here. Even with record employment.

-DSK

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2 hours ago, phillysailor said:
22 hours ago, jzk said:

Let's be honest.  The left doesn't give a rats ass whether Trump is racist or not.  It is a political smear tactic and nothing more.

Let's be honest. I think you are a shithole. This is a personal opinion, and nothing more.

I care about American values and traditions. I care about equal treatment under the law. I care that my wife was born in (shithole) Vietnam with her 10 brothers and sisters and that they came off food stamps despite having "no skills" and ALL went to college. They are now are doctors, engineers and pharmacists, paying back a thousandfold their indebtedness to America with cheerful, diligent effort. America in some way met national obligations incurred by that spasm of violence and enabled her to leave the day Saigon fell. I care that you and your ilk would denigrate America's proud history and difficult days and sell it for momentary political advantage.

You are disappointing. Go find some morals and some patriotism, then come back and chat. I like immigrants more than I like you and other deplorable Americans.

The funny thing, when The Right does away with birth right citizenship, he can be stripped of his. Something to look forward to.

-DSK

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1 hour ago, TMSAIL said:

Ask the author of the statement.  I found his shithole comment wrong on every level, but at the same time I believe we need to move to a merit based immigration system that uses the immigrants ability to contribute rather than exploit.   That had zero to do with race.  A doctor from Africa would be just as welcome as one from Norway.  

  

You ignore the lessons of history if this is your immigration policy.

The persons fleeing economic devastation are frickin' motivated to improve themselves and their families. You do not find sizable numbers of professionals willing to move to other countries without families and friends. What America has benefited from is providing a land of opportunity to people who want more for their families finding that very opportunity here.

The current backlash against these people makes it difficult for them to succeed. Essentially, GOP policies of restricting healthcare for the masses, having race and religious tests for immigration, and appearing to support racism and economic warfare against the poor prevent persons rising from the lower classes into the middle and upper class. 

To MAGA, we have to invest in infrastructure, education, reduce the incidence of bankruptcy whether caused by healthcare, fraudulent educational schemes and municipal debtors prisons. We need to level the income and wealth gap to rational degree rather than add wealth to the aristocracy. Whipping the poor until their morale improves isn't working.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, there you go again.

WTF would a doctor move into the USA?

Over the past umpty years (since WW2), the USA has been a place where smart young people from anywhere in the world CAN BECOME doctors. In one short year, that has reversed.

There is a tide now where PhD level professionals from other coutries and other cultures are moving "back home" and in some cases having a hard time adjusting. Same reason we don't need a wall anymore, even if Mexico does pay for it: furriners are not welcome and don't want to come here. Even with record employment.

-DSK

Ask the 25% of physicians practicing in the US that are foreign born.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolefisher/2016/07/12/25-of-docs-are-born-outside-of-the-u-s-can-immigration-reform-solve-our-doc-shortage/#3dd1ae25155f

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5 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

You are nose blind.  Like the cat owner who doesn't smell the urine on the carpet, your own racism clouds your ability to see it in others.

See, you have proven my entire point.  You just willy nilly throw around the racism card whenever you are feeling emotional.  Have some self control once in a while.

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