McGyver

Tether clips

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7 minutes ago, HFC Hunter said:

That bosunchair would make rig work much comfier.

Can't get anything done, they just sit up there like they just won the Spanish Inquisition.

 

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Hey look, sorry guys I didn't mean to derail the thread, I suppose I just have a different outlook. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't the intention. 

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2 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Hey look, sorry guys I didn't mean to derail the thread, I suppose I just have a different outlook. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't the intention. 

In all seriousness, perhaps you should talk to a professional and explore your need for thrills and self harm.  Everybody like some excitement of one kind or another in their life.  When people have a need for greater and greater risk to fill a need, it is time to find out what really going on.  Human behavior never exists in a vacuum.  As a female client with a borderline personality disorder I once talked to said after she had severely cut her arms with a scalpel; "I needed to feel pain so at least I could feel something."

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6 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

In all seriousness, perhaps you should talk to a professional and explore your need for thrills and self harm.  Everybody like some excitement of one kind or another in their life.  When people have a need for greater and greater risk to fill a need, it is time to find out what really going on.  Human behavior never exists in a vacuum.  As a female client with a borderline personality disorder I once talked to said after she had severely cut her arms with a scalpel; "I needed to feel pain so at least I could feel something."

Thanks but nah. I'm actually pretty normal, just hard to pigeon hole. 

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7 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

In all seriousness, perhaps you should talk to a professional and explore your need for thrills and self harm.  Everybody like some excitement of one kind or another in their life.  When people have a need for greater and greater risk to fill a need, it is time to find out what really going on.  Human behavior never exists in a vacuum.  As a female client with a borderline personality disorder I once talked to said after she had severely cut her arms with a scalpel; "I needed to feel pain so at least I could feel something."

WTF are you talking about? You like women under half your age. He likes to drive without seatbelts. Mind your own business.

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3 hours ago, IStream said:

WTF are you talking about? You like women under half your age. He likes to drive without seatbelts. Mind your own business.

Of course.  I see the parallel now that you put it that way.

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Why's everyone getting on Alcatraz' case? 

I can't quite pinpoint the exact point in time when the expectation of safety began to seriously trump personal freedoms...but I used to label 'the safety conscious 90s' as a possible turning point. In the automotive world at least, suddenly everywhere you looked, a car had every safety feature you could imagine. ABS was the latest promise of  injury mitigation, and if there weren't a thousand more features that would save you and your loved ones from being crushed in a a once moving and suddenly imobile hunk of metal...well the car was simply inferior. Companies like Volvo traded on this promise of increased safety probably more than any other. 

The fact is, past a certain speed, all the airbags in the world won't save you in a head on collision...but the car company does not want you to know this. They'd rather you think that the car they are selling you is foolproof and injury proof...but it's far from it.

Are cars safer than they used to be? Absolutely. Do people overdrive their capabilities in bad weather or heavy traffic? Routinely. 

Which scenario is more offensive to the social contract one enters into when they get behind the wheel? The driver who drives aggressively in snow in a vehicle laden with every safety feature available and wears their seatbelt, or a driver who drives their vehicle in a more reasonable manner but neglects to wear their seatbelt? Does the otherwise cautious driver who neglects to wear their seatbelt place any greater burden, potential or otherwise, on the safety of other drivers, or the potential cost of long term injury or death to him or herself or any other driver than the maniac driver who wears his seatbelt? 

I had a little brush with automotive assisted termination as a 17 year old. I was sitting still at a stop sign, not moving and waiting for a chance to turn right, when out of the blue, one of two cars that were racing eachother down a hill on the street I was waiting to turn onto lost control, skipped the median and side swiped my car at considerable speed. If you've ever heard the Roger Waters tune with lyrics 'like the moment when the breaks lock, and you slide towards the big truck, and you stretch the frozen moments with your fear'...that was it. I had no time to do anything but move as far away from the side door as possible and practically got half way onto the other seat by the time my car was in the air and spinning like a top almost 180 degrees. When the dust settled I was face first on the floor of the passenger side. The place where I would've been sitting had I been wearing my seatbelt was now a big hunk of metal and broken glass. Would've been a goner if I'd been wearing my seatbelt. As it turned out, I was extremely  lucky to walk away somewhat shaken, but basically without a scratch.

So do I wear my seatbelt today? Hell ya. And I love my lane change assist, sleepy driver wheel vibration, adaptive cruise control...the whole package. It's great. Does it change the fact that I can still die behind the wheel? No it doesn't. Perhaps marginally, perhaps a little more than that, but the fact is I'm still engaging in an activity with a measurable degree of risk. Let's say I  drive a car with none of these features, a collectable moving antique with no roof or roll bar out for a sporty Sunday drive. Am I less responsible to the social safety contract even though I am acting well within the law?

Maybe not wearing a seatbelt does not quite rise to the level of exercising a personal freedom when it is in fact the law. Not wearing a helmet, in certain states is legal, and a matter of personal choice. 

Why does any of this matter? Well because, at least in my opinion, selling safety has pervaded so many aspects of life, whether it be medicine or politics, to the point that, at least in this thread, someone engaging in marginally risky behaviour can actually be mistaken for having an illness that should or could  be diagnosed. At what point did living on the edge a bit become something to diagnose?

At what point did the younger generation, merely glance away from their I-pads and out the window and ask why the crazed maniac coming down the road on his motorcycle wasn't wearing a helmet, only to be told by their hands-free drive assisted parent, 'don't worry, we're in the 'live free or die state, that's how they do things here'? And just like that, the exercising of a personal freedom is explained away as a fanciful whim, unimportant and non-essential. 

Peddling safety, whether it's getting tougher on crime that's been down for twenty years, building a wall only for smugglers to get better at building tunnels, explaining away search and seizure as chasing down a crime in progress, normalizing a surveillance society under the guise of making it easier to get the bad guy...it all comes at a cost...and taking rights and freedoms for granted all under the supreme guise of public safety is a big one. An even bigger one is going so far down the slippery safety slope that we forget what rights and freedoms we were trying to protect in the first place.

Finger wagging and putting a Scarlett letter on a fellow adult who doesn't wear a seatbelt and drives his motorcycle faster than he should? Yeah I don't think that would've been a convo a couple of generations ago. We've come a long way baby!!!(cigarette ad slogan)

At this point, if I could magically cash in a few safety chips for some more freedom chips, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

 

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be ok IF it was personal , why are you and many others neglecting to accept that the decision to recklessly die will affect his family .

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Mid,

I think he mentions that his family accepts his level of risk tolerance. It would be a different case if they didn't..

As many have, I've lost a couple of friends along the way. One of them was a ski racer. His friends and family accepted the risks before he passed, and after.

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how can his children accept the risk ?

 

no man is an island and all of our actions have consequences , where is the right and respect to tell others fok you when you are affecting their lives ?

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You're right. No man is an island. But nothing is without risk, and risk should not be conflated with selfish behaviour.

Suppose a parent makes the risky choice to escape a communist country by climbing and hiking through the mountains in the dead of winter with the child on his back? The child will cling to the parent who is knowingly risking both lives. Is the parent guilty of risking everything for what he thinks in his mind, has become the only option for his family's future? These are 'choices' he makes on behalf of his children, not in spite of them.

I'd say you'd have a point if he was sneaking out in the middle of the night and going BASE jumping behind his family's back, which is not really the case here.

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nope he's going base jumping in full view , and the children are powerless .

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Sounds like his children might grow up with a better appreciation of risk from a father who engages in it knowingly and somewhat enthusiastically and doesn't try to deny it's existence, or perpetrate the myth of %100 safety. 

Maybe the more powerless children are the snowdrops being raised by helicopters.

Remember, you can still do everything right, tether up and get trapped under a capsized boat and drown. Do you have the playbook for explaining this to the children of the deceased?

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On 1/18/2018 at 5:39 PM, Alcatraz5768 said:

my wife and kids understand that I choose not to.

no maybe's there , simply speaking for children who are powerless to say anything about the situation .

you want to risk your life find however you do not have any right to expose others to that risk , especially those to whom their current life depends on you .

 

end of .

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You'll be glad to know that the greatest daredevil in the history of the world, Felix Baumgartner, went through a similar moral reckoning during his very last stunt, and he doesn't even have any 'powerless' children to worry about. 

When he was perched high up in the atmosphere, tethered to a helium balloon, he came to the sudden and surprising conclusion that this would be his last jump. There was no way he was going to put his girlfriend and parents through the pressure and anxiety over the risks he was taking ever again. 

The difference though, is that this man was parachuting from a fucking balloon  in outer space at Mach 1, not driving without a seatbelt, enjoying his motorcycle and jumping his power cat through waves.

Get a grip. Everyone's gotta live a little. 

 

Just as an aside....I just thought of something that would absolutely horrify your local PTA but is legal in NZ where Alcatraz is from.  A buddy was down there working on an Open 60 and was lucky enough to have the sponsor fly his kids down for a bit cause he was there for quite a while. Perfect chance for him to send his powerless 10 year old skydiving (cause it's legal down there). The 10 year old is now 16 and a top ranked ski racer. Sometimes risks have rewards, no? 

 

 

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Why thank you, fufkin, your wordsmithing is far better than mine. FYI I don't ride motorbikes as they scare the shit out of me but I admire folk who do as they are taking a risk to do what they love. Deep down all motorcyclists know they have less protection than in a car, but they are prepared to push that aside. 

This morning I delivered my 9yo to his surf lifesaving course in the thundercat after jumping a few waves on the bar on the way out. Jumped some waves on the way through the surf then slid that fucker up the beach kicking sand up. He jumped out, peeled his vest off and walked up to the clubhouse cool as a fan. The smile on his face as we get airborne is contagious. Then on the way home motherfuckers he rode in the boat as I drove slowly. 

Does this make me an unsuitable parent, maybe, but maybe I'm actually making the little dude some memory's and story's for his mates at school. 

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6 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Oh my god, I've just realised I've turned into a troll. 

 

Sorry fuckers. 

What you are doing is tame compared to what your elders did. There were no seat belts in early NZ autos, no brakes to speak of either. Quite a few of them would tip over with not much speed around a tight corner. I have had two near death experiences at NZ beaches, and one at the race track, zero on public highways. Which includes roads near you. What beach are you referring to? For a Kiwi you sound fairly mild to me. Can I assume you sail on something there. 

Unkle Krusty. I think I mentioned I played for Suburbs.

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We have a little Bach in Mangawhai heads. Often see kids riding in boats or on the back of Utes going past. They all have bin grins and look happy as shit. Small town NZ is still pretty bloody awesome. I only played rugby for half a season when I was about 7yo, then I got a P class so any other sports went out te back door. 

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On 1/13/2018 at 6:24 AM, slug zitski said:

I only use approved tethers and hooks....choose glow in th dark tethers.

several brands ....only use approved equipment 

IMG_7818.JPG

These are the spinlock ones, basically they are crap to use. The hooks are not easy to use with gloves on so often we cant be fucked using them if its only moderate

 

On 1/19/2018 at 6:59 AM, Alcatraz5768 said:

Whatever. I make choices that are different to yours, at no point did I tell anyone they were stupid for the choices they make, or tell anyone that they should do what I do. Other choices I make are not to drink, do drugs, smoke, gamble etc, so are those ok?

Oh hold on, go fuck yourselves. 

Good advice, they keep taking away our right to feel alive by making rules against dying. Some asshole politician makes a law to get votes and we all have to wear lifejackets. One reason I sail to get away from bureaucracy, not to support it. 

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9 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Why thank you, fufkin, your wordsmithing is far better than mine. FYI I don't ride motorbikes as they scare the shit out of me but I admire folk who do as they are taking a risk to do what they love. Deep down all motorcyclists know they have less protection than in a car, but they are prepared to push that aside. 

This morning I delivered my 9yo to his surf lifesaving course in the thundercat after jumping a few waves on the bar on the way out. Jumped some waves on the way through the surf then slid that fucker up the beach kicking sand up. He jumped out, peeled his vest off and walked up to the clubhouse cool as a fan. The smile on his face as we get airborne is contagious. Then on the way home motherfuckers he rode in the boat as I drove slowly. 

Does this make me an unsuitable parent, maybe, but maybe I'm actually making the little dude some memory's and story's for his mates at school. 

You should see the looks on the concerned parents faces when I tell them that I let my kids snorkel with and follow the bronzies around the bay. So many this year that we couldn't be bothered getting out of the water.

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14 hours ago, fufkin said:

Remember, you can still do everything right, tether up and get trapped under a capsized boat and drown. Do you have the playbook for explaining this to the children of the deceased?

Yes people getting drowned because they tethered on is a major concern in sailing - happens several times each day. Crazy to compare this with wearing a seat belt in a car. Is there a single documented case of a seat belt saving lives? No .

don't be a hover parent. Buy your kid a 1000cc motorbike and encourage them to experiment with drugs. 

Do you even have children?

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2 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

You should see the looks on the concerned parents faces when I tell them that I let my kids snorkel with and follow the bronzies around the bay. So many this year that we couldn't be bothered getting out of the water.

Interesting. If they are so harmless that you let your children snorkel with them, why would you need to get out of the water? 

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By getting out I mean panicking with irrational fear as many do when they see a fin, theres a general feeling of unease when sharks are around which is mostly due to a lifetime of indoctrination by the entertainment industry and the media. Depending on a few things if you ignore them they ignore you on our coasts, especially bronzies which are like dogs. I've done a lot of diving and mostly dont give a shit about sharks except for the ones I need to worry about

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6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Yes people getting drowned because they tethered on is a major concern in sailing - happens several times each day. Crazy to compare this with wearing a seat belt in a car. Is there a single documented case of a seat belt saving lives? No .

don't be a hover parent. Buy your kid a 1000cc motorbike and encourage them to experiment with drugs. 

Do you even have children?

Is there a single documented case of a seat belt saving lives? I'm gonna go over on the over/under  on that one... And as far as comparing a tether with a seatbelt...they are functionally equivalent no matter what moving vehicle someone happens to be riding on.

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9 minutes ago, fufkin said:

Is there a single documented case of a seat belt saving lives? I'm gonna go over on the over/under  on that one... And as far as comparing a tether with a seatbelt...they are functionally equivalent no matter what moving vehicle someone happens to be riding on.

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Is this still the tether thread. I did not see much in the way of tethers at the boat show. There are at least four on board I think, so I will be having a good look at the latches, and rethink the jack line locations.

Unkle Krusty

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I still say a seatbelt is no different than a tether. Each prevents the occupant/driver from exceeding the speed of their boat/vehicle in the event of a sudden or immediate slowdown or unexpected change of direction or motion.

The tether is far less thought out, more crude, and more user dependant than a properly engineered automotive seatbelt.

But...they both try to perform the same function.

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, fufkin said:

I still say a seatbelt is no different than a tether. Each prevents the occupant/driver from exceeding the speed of their boat/vehicle in the event of a sudden or immediate slowdown or unexpected change of direction or motion.

The tether is far less thought out, more crude, and more user dependant than a properly engineered automotive seatbelt.

But...they both try to perform the same function.

 

 

 

Attaching the airbags to a tether is a huge pain in the ass. They do give excellent flotation for the 3 seconds before they deflate.

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When I got my new van I didn't get the passenger seat airbags. Why bother? I never sit there.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

When I got my new van I didn't get the passenger seat airbags. Why bother? I never sit there.

If it is of any interest, the law(in my region) says you can disable passenger seat airbags in Canada but not in the U.S. It's pretty standard in luxury cars that there is a disable feature for passenger side in Canada. 

Child seat related legislation. 

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3 minutes ago, fufkin said:

Child seat related legislation. 

child seats in front seat ?

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2 hours ago, Mid said:

child seats in front seat ?

Yes. You can strap the baby seat there - depending on your locale. Also applies to two seaters. 

ncap etc have reported front passenger safety. Not rear seat.

 

6 hours ago, fufkin said:

Is there a single documented case of a seat belt saving lives?

How about every time the strapped-in person gets to survive the crash and spends the next 30mins hunting for the non-strapped person (or bits of them) who was last seen exiting via the windscreen. I seriously hope you were just trolling.

 

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1 minute ago, HFC Hunter said:

Yes. You can strap the baby seat there - depending on your locale.

thanks , no go in Oz

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Unless it’s 2 seater:

  • Children under four years old must not travel in the front seat of a vehicle with two or more rows of seats.

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need to check specifics but that sounds similar

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56 minutes ago, HFC Hunter said:

Yes. You can strap the baby seat there - depending on your locale. Also applies to two seaters. 

ncap etc have reported front passenger safety. Not rear seat.

 

How about every time the strapped-in person gets to survive the crash and spends the next 30mins hunting for the non-strapped person (or bits of them) who was last seen exiting via the windscreen. I seriously hope you were just trolling.

 

 

1 hour ago, HFC Hunter said:

Yes. You can strap the baby seat there - depending on your locale. Also applies to two seaters. 

ncap etc have reported front passenger safety. Not rear seat.

 

How about every time the strapped-in person gets to survive the crash and spends the next 30mins hunting for the non-strapped person (or bits of them) who was last seen exiting via the windscreen. I seriously hope you were just trolling.

 

The "is there a single case of seat belts saving lives' was a paraphrased response to LB's line up thread if you wanna look. Not my line. I have zero interest with arguing with seatbelts.

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Ncap ratings have to be looked at with a grain of salt as well. I used to work for a vehicle importer, who we shall call Hyundai so as to not name names, who increased the Ncap rating of a small hatchback, which I won't name but the initials are Getz, by fitting a seatbelt warning buzzer. 

Not making the car stronger or more crash resistant, or adding more airbags, or wrapping it in cotton wool, or educating the driver, just adding a beeper. 

Went from 4 to 5 stars rating. 

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15 hours ago, fufkin said:

 

The "is there a single case of seat belts saving lives' was a paraphrased response to LB's line up thread if you wanna look.

"is there a single case of seat belts saving lives'

There. I will try to allow for the sarcastically challenged next time.

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Seatbelts are easy, no hassle whatsoever. But sometimes clipping in is a pain in the ass and we risk it.

 

 

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Other times clipping in just isn't worth it because what could happen? It's a nice calm day.

 

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 12:26 AM, savoir said:

 

The clip at the top looks like a traditional piston clip - probably Ronstan. Those cannot release under load. Cut it out and replace it with a Tylaska T5.

1+ I think that is the way I am going to go.

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15 hours ago, Lucky Dog said:

1+ I think that is the way I am going to go.

i have one of those Kong tethers, and while i like the light weight, and the easy action of the clips.., i worry about the shackle releasing accidentally under no load, by being brushed by something - like a jacket or whatever.

I exchanged the first one i bought because i thought the shackle pin was too loose - it seemed too easy to open.

I think a problem with the the World sailing OSR's is that they are trying to develop regulations for what are really very low probability events - How necessary  is a quick release? I guess there are two parts to that question - How often would a MOB want to release, and what fraction of those times would they actually be physically capable of activating the release? I doubt it can be more than once every 10,000,000 offshore miles, but I have no idea. If WS knows.., as far as I know, they haven't told us. (BTW I think the likelihood of being able to use one of those cutters while being towed behind a fast boat is nearly zero.)

Anyway, It's such a low probability event that it isn't clear to me that the likelihood of accidental release doesn't approach the likelihood of needing to release - which suggests that the question of whether to have a release ought to be left up to the sailor or boat owner.

At some point, it just gets to be too much regulation and too much required gear - if i read correctly, Cat 0 races now require both a personal AIS.., _and_ a PLB in every PFD... The cost of an offshore PFD with the spray hood and so on, is ~$350, the tether is ~$100 at least, and the two electronic devices add ~$400.., so you are at $850 before you buy any foul weather gear... I would get rid of the PLB requirement.., AIS is enough - if you want both.., fine buy both, but requiring both is a bit much.

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To answer your quick release query... how often have you had one ping when you didn’t mean it on a sail? Once would be too often on a tether.

I”d truly rather be dragged than left behind a planing offshore boat. I’d rather risk revival than risk a search and recovery (maybe) AND revival.

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In the meantime Giovanni Soldini and his crew are rocketing from Hong Kong to London aboard Maserati.

I see no lifelines or vests on those guys.

No namby pambys on that crew!

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11 minutes ago, Godzilla said:

In the meantime Giovanni Soldini and his crew are rocketing from Hong Kong to London aboard Maserati.

I see no lifelines or vests on those guys.

No namby pambys on that crew!

How many crew left Hong Kong, how many are aboard now, and how many will make it to London?

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44 minutes ago, IStream said:

How many crew left Hong Kong, how many are aboard now, and how many will make it to London?

12 . 26 . 4 .

Damn immigration control.

 

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41 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

12 . 26 . 4 .

Damn immigration control.

 

Brexit can't come fast enough. 

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