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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Maroon

Sailors Powerboat

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On 1/19/2018 at 2:39 PM, Mid said:

^^

better if the bow fender was stowed .

Naw, he’s running over a crab pot....

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2 hours ago, carcrash said:

I've owned power and sail pretty much continuously since I could first afford to buy a boat with paper route money. After about 50 years of a wide spectrum of boat ownership, and the good fortune and hard work habits to sail and power around for tens of thousands of miles on boats I cannot afford, I've come to some conclusions:

1) The longer I own or operate a powerboat, the slower I go. Anything over 15 knots is truly a waste of capability. 6-8 knots is actually a very nice cruising speed.

2) At the speeds we actually end up running, sailboats under power are fundamentally more comfortable and less expensive to operate.

3) Its the day out on the water that is important, not how far one goes in that day (beyond being able to make the next anchorage). So being able to get to Catalina in 40 minutes or even 2 hours is no advantage to getting there in 4 or 6 hours, as the 4 or 6 hours underway on a nice boat (power or sail) is enjoyable, whereas the 40 minute trip beats everyone up (those over about 13 anyway), and causes the cocktails to spill, champagne glasses to break, and hors d'oeuvres to fly around the boat. The entire experience should be pleasurable, not just the destination.

Hence, the retirement boat is a sailboat rather than a powerboat.

But I know eventually I'll lose mobility and balance, and at that time, a powerboat will again be the vessel. But it will still be a slow powerboat with a very small motor.

10 knots is better-

-easier to divide into distance,

-fast enough to get somewhere,

-slow enough to see crud in the water and react, without raising blood pressure

- natural speed easy with a slender double ended light hull, small engine, not so long as to be too $$$$$$$$$$$$

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This is interesting, he cruised a bit with us this summer. 10m-ish long and has a 50hp Yanmar that sips rather than guzzles, cruises forever at 10 knots and has a sprint speed of over 15kts.

The beam is variable - the amas are winched in tight alongside for going into a standard 10m slip.

IMG_0496.jpg

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I owned this San Juan 38 for 10 years, and loved every minute. Took it all over the PNW, as far as the Queen Charlottes. I cruised at about 20 knots, with a top speed over 30. Even now, almost 10 years after I sold it, I think it's one of the prettiest boats on the water. When I sold it, I reduced my carbon footprint considerably by getting a sailboat. 

DSCF4479.JPG

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1 hour ago, farleydoodle said:

I owned this San Juan 38 for 10 years, and loved every minute. Took it all over the PNW, as far as the Queen Charlottes. I cruised at about 20 knots, with a top speed over 30. Even now, almost 10 years after I sold it, I think it's one of the prettiest boats on the water. When I sold it, I reduced my carbon footprint considerably by getting a sailboat. 

DSCF4479.JPG

Just glorious. But Christ, twin 325’s?  Ouch - 1nmpg would be optimistic, no?

i don’t have detailed measurements but our 40’ sailboat at 6-7kts with the 4108 can’t burn much more than 1 liter per hour. I have owned her for 2+ years of weekly daysailing and have put a total of 20 gallons into the tank. I love the idea of a 2-4 hour trip to Catalina but not for $500 in fuel each time. 

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6 hours ago, Amati said:

10 knots is better-

-easier to divide into distance,

-fast enough to get somewhere,

-slow enough to see crud in the water and react, without raising blood pressure

- natural speed easy with a slender double ended light hull, small engine, not so long as to be too $$$$$$$$$$$$

The Cowmaran was designed to go ten knots because that seems fast to a sailor.

The owner mostly runs around at wide open throttle because 10 knots is not fast in a powerboat.

I bought our latest powerboat just for the above-20-knot cruising speed. Shrinks the harbor and makes things possible that can't be done in a slower boat.

7 hours ago, lasal said:

Pretty cool, YMT. The two bilge keels are interesting and obviously have much less surface than a long skeg and no doubt give the directional stability needed. It's not beautiful, but it's good looking and very bold.


I think it goes a bit beyond "not beautiful" and might even be Admirable.

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6 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The Cowmaran was designed to go ten knots because that seems fast to a sailor.

The owner mostly runs around at wide open throttle because 10 knots is not fast in a powerboat.

I bought our latest powerboat just for the above-20-knot cruising speed. Shrinks the harbor and makes things possible that can't be done in a slower boat.


I think it goes a bit beyond "not beautiful" and might even be Admirable.

Cool boat- but on the 10 knot speed, I’ve lost count of how many times we’ve been sailing along at 10-11 knots, dodging all sorts of crap, and a motorboat flashes (or thunders) by, hits some flotsam, and BAM! followed by sick mechanical sounds as they disappear into the distance or around the bend.  Maybe it’s just local conditions?

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The perfect speed for me is 15 knots. Fast enough to get somewhere, but not so fast that you have to concentrate super hard while on the helm. Problem with most planing powerboats is they will either go six knots in displacement mode or 20 knots up on step, there is no happy medium. And they need big HP and big fuel bills to to do it. I want boat that will run comfortably at 12-15 knots, top out at 20 and do it all with 60 HP or less. 

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My Dads motorsailer.He started out with a Larchmont "O" boat and then decided to take the family on a cruise. So he found a good deal on this Hand designed motorsailer and had it completely refurbished at Higgins in New Orleans and we took off for Miami, the Isle of Pines, Havana, Nova Scotia and ,finally Brazil......

83_Ungava.JPG

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A No Limit Ship, one of which crossed the Atlantic in 2016. This year it is leaving Bermuda to return to Europe via the Azores.

This is a video of Four Seasons Atlantic crossing via the northern island route.

 

Four-Seasons-route-2016.jpg

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12 hours ago, overbend said:

This is interesting, he cruised a bit with us this summer. 10m-ish long and has a 50hp Yanmar that sips rather than guzzles, cruises forever at 10 knots and has a sprint speed of over 15kts.

The beam is variable - the amas are winched in tight alongside for going into a standard 10m slip.

IMG_0496.jpg

Cool approach on the retractable amas.  This has turned into quite the hypermiler thread which is interesting.  I'd take Bob Perry's more traditional design any day over this, but then again, my idea of good days on the water is not covering distance at moderate speed. That's what sailing if for.  

Farleydoodle - That San Juan is BEAUTIFUL!  I've always been a fan of the picnic boats and really like what MJM has done to modernize with an eye to fuel conservation.  Open checkbook for a powerboat and it would be a nice new MJM with outboards, closely followed by the True North, just because I love the lines.  

 

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Sailors Power Boat @ 8.5knots. The Northwest Passage 2009. "The Other Side Of The Ice". The Movie and the Book.

NW2.jpg

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10 minutes ago, widget said:

Cool approach on the retractable amas.  This has turned into quite the hypermiler thread which is interesting.  I'd take Bob Perry's more traditional design any day over this, but then again, my idea of good days on the water is not covering distance at moderate speed. That's what sailing if for.  

Farleydoodle - That San Juan is BEAUTIFUL!  I've always been a fan of the picnic boats and really like what MJM has done to modernize with an eye to fuel conservation.  Open checkbook for a powerboat and it would be a nice new MJM with outboards, closely followed by the True North, just because I love the lines.  

 

Bob's design is great but it's a 60' long custom, which makes it unaffordable to procure and own for the vast majority.  A fuel-efficient 10-15kt motor vessel in the 40' range produced on a line is a different beast. 

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I am a sailor at heart, but I am quite fond of this Northwest School of Wooden Boatbuilding Paul Gartside designed Hadlock 23 Skiff. However it is lacking in cruising accommodations.

DCE8CB3C-CD0B-4E45-B37D-6466649FEBA6.jpeg

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9 hours ago, socalrider said:

Just glorious. But Christ, twin 325’s?  Ouch - 1nmpg would be optimistic, no?

i don’t have detailed measurements but our 40’ sailboat at 6-7kts with the 4108 can’t burn much more than 1 liter per hour. I have owned her for 2+ years of weekly daysailing and have put a total of 20 gallons into the tank. I love the idea of a 2-4 hour trip to Catalina but not for $500 in fuel each time. 

Twin 350's actually. I kept detailed fuel logs the whole time I owned the boat, and averaged 1.1 nm/gal overall.

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20 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

The little pogo is nice .

do they have some clever solution for storing  a dingy  ?

I don't think so. People here tend to use inflatable.

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5 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

I don't think so. People here tend to use inflatable.

But even an inflatable must be stored when in port or whatever .

its the little details that make boats special.

pogo is a good compnay ..i suspect some system was concieved 

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11 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I think it goes a bit beyond "not beautiful" and might even be Admirable.

Perhaps, and I do admire YMTs dreamboat take there. Just a few tweaks like running the strake forward for a fine entry (similar to Pogo) and the fins otherwise he left well enough alone.

Has the Cowmaran been officially admired? Or are pontoons a given?

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Some crazy/intriguing examples here:

 

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On 1/19/2018 at 3:39 PM, Kirwan said:

 

 

As for Pianos.... Mark Patty built a Lightning (19'CB dinghy) using the west system, and covered it in Mahogany veneer.  It was gorgeous, people would say "How can you race such a beauty?", and his response was "I can sit it in the living room and drink coffee off it, or I can go sailing". 

 

I'll be darned Kirwan, (post 51).  I raced Lightnings out of Seattle in the 1980's and remember Mark Patty's boat.  I remember thinking the same thing about his "piano".  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  It was too gorgeous to mix it up in a competitive fleet, but he did.   I think he called it (or one of his other boats) Peppermint Patty.  I must have seen him at one of the San Diego NA's or maybe he brought it to Seattle for the 84 NA's.  Do you know him?  Thanks for the blast from the past.

 

Back on subject:   After I am done sailing I'm likely to get a ~26' Bayliner.  Gasp.  We had a 24er when the kids were little and there is nothing like getting to Desolation Sound (cheaply) in one day.  Then being able to gunk hole around and even bump bottom with out drive up in the nether reaches.  Small just fits so well in so many cool spots.

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55 minutes ago, multihuler said:

20ft Richard Woods Skoota gets you a bed and 14 knots with a 25hp outboard

skoota20sale1.jpeg

The cabin could be more elegant but I dig it's specs. 

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6 hours ago, IStream said:

Bob's design is great but it's a 60' long custom, which makes it unaffordable to procure and own for the vast majority.  

I'm with you, Istream!!  Show me 30 to 40 footer, like the Back Coves', with a single, fuel sipping diesel,  that cruises at 15 knots, and doesn't cost us 300 grand, please??  In two years, we should be able to afford such a boat for summer use......

 

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4 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I'm with you, Istream!!  Show me 30 to 40 footer, like the Back Coves', with single fuel sipping diesel,  that cruises at 15 knots, and doesn't cost us 300 grand, please??  In two years, we should be able to afford such a boat for summer use......

Aspen C100?  Oh wait, that’s $300k...

http://aspenpowercatamarans.com/models/c100/

It seems hard/impossible to combine fuel sipping with a cruise speed above hull speed without going multihull. 15kts means something like 65’ of waterline, right?  Otherwise you’re planing and getting 2nmpg or worse it seems. 

And anytime I start thinking about a displacement hull Moni I wonder what I’m gaining over an aux sailboat, which are relatively plentiful and cheap, more economical, and, uh, can sail.

the 32’ Pogo looks interesting tho. Any fuel consumption figures yet?

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3 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Aspen C100?  Oh wait, that’s $300k...

http://aspenpowercatamarans.com/models/c100/

It seems hard/impossible to combine fuel sipping with a cruise speed above hull speed without going multihull. 15kts means something like 65’ of waterline, right?  Otherwise you’re planing and getting 2nmpg or worse it seems. 

And anytime I start thinking about a displacement hull Moni I wonder what I’m gaining over an aux sailboat, which are relatively plentiful and cheap, more economical, and, uh, can sail.

the 32’ Pogo looks interesting tho. Any fuel consumption figures yet?

5nm per liter of vin rouge and a pack of Gauloises.

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9 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

The perfect speed for me is 15 knots. Fast enough to get somewhere, but not so fast that you have to concentrate super hard while on the helm. Problem with most planing powerboats is they will either go six knots in displacement mode or 20 knots up on step, there is no happy medium. And they need big HP and big fuel bills to to do it. I want boat that will run comfortably at 12-15 knots, top out at 20 and do it all with 60 HP or less. 

Get in line. There are a few of us already waiting to buy the Cowmaran.

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10 hours ago, DHFiend said:

Why choose - get both... Nemo is for sale.

http://biekerboats.com/project/nemo-ultimate-30-conversion/

nemo-07.jpg

 

Interesting, but too small for camping with the Missus.  We went from a 2400 sq. ft. Ranch house on the water with a large dock to a 960 sq. ft, Village apartment that does not even have a bedroom.  It's a bunk room like a boat with full size mattress and just perfect for our needs.  But, I think a Back Cove 26, or modernized version of a Dyer 29, would be the minimum to suit our needs for summer cruising.  We both race tons on other peeps sailboats, so no need to own a cruising rag bagger...

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14 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Get in line. There are a few of us already waiting to buy the Cowmaran.

My old Suntracker pontoon would do it pretty well, but the 115 2stroke gas hog was a little too much. Cowmaran would totally work for me though. 

I like Meade and Jan Gougeon's old pontoons as well. Dick Newick designed the hulls, Meade and Jan came up with the rest. 

Gougmaran.jpg

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This is the boat we had built to cruise the ICW after watching all the sailboats struggle to manage those 1100 miles of shallow water and low bridges. Finished up with over 10,000 miles on her between the Bahamas, New England, Erie Canal and Great Lakes. Easily driven with a simple single engine and bow thruster, averaging 3.75 nm/gal in comfort at 9 knots.

Regrettably had to sell her last year... 

http://www.siewertdesign.com/ilhabela/

IMG_0165.thumb.jpg.6c056255e6b780caac547e9a0fa2dd51.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Cheap Beer said:

This is the boat we had built to cruise the ICW after watching all the sailboats struggle to manage those 1100 miles of shallow water and low bridges. Finished up with over 10,000 miles on her between the Bahamas, New England, Erie Canal and Great Lakes. Easily driven with a simple single engine and bow thruster, averaging 3.75 nm/gal in comfort at 9 knots.

Regrettably had to sell her last year... 

http://www.siewertdesign.com/ilhabela/

IMG_0165.thumb.jpg.6c056255e6b780caac547e9a0fa2dd51.jpg

Gorgeous.  That's just the sort of vessel that tempts me away from the sailboats occasionally.  The trip to Catalina from here is just a long slog directly into wind, waves and current anyway.  How would you rate the comfort in a swell versus a keelboat?  I never get seasick on sailboats, but have gotten violently ill on planing hull sport fishing vessels a few times due to (I think) the quicker pitching motion.  I have never been on a trawler style boat for any length of time.  

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On 1/21/2018 at 9:11 AM, farleydoodle said:

Twin 350's actually. I kept detailed fuel logs the whole time I owned the boat, and averaged 1.1 nm/gal overall.

Its amazing how often 1nm/gal is what people tend to get. I got pretty much the same on our Fountain sport fishing boat, on the Nordic Tug 32 we chartered, on our offshore speed boat, on our lake hot rod jet boat, on both the Fleming 55 and 65 I was fortunate enough to cruise long distance aboard. Somewhat different speeds (8 to 60 knots), but surprisingly similar fuel burns, gas or diesel. Maybe it has to do with what the humans can stand. More power is more fuel burn, but also more noise and vibration, and sometimes more harsh motion underway,

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50 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Its amazing how often 1nm/gal is what people tend to get. I got pretty much the same on our Fountain sport fishing boat, on the Nordic Tug 32 we chartered, on our offshore speed boat, on our lake hot rod jet boat, on both the Fleming 55 and 65 I was fortunate enough to cruise long distance aboard. Somewhat different speeds (8 to 60 knots), but surprisingly similar fuel burns, gas or diesel. Maybe it has to do with what the humans can stand. More power is more fuel burn, but also more noise and vibration, and sometimes more harsh motion underway,

A good friend owns a 50' flat out racing sailboat in SoCal and a 55' Fleming up in the PNW. He spends summers up north and says he can do 12 Kts at 20 GPH or 6 Kts at 8 GPH. Since he's been used to 6 Kts all his life, that works for him. He gets where he wants to go when he wants to get there and so he doesn't see the point of pushing it. And he loves his power yacht. That Fleming would be my perfect stinkpot when the day comes. 

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23 hours ago, eric1207 said:

I'll be darned Kirwan, (post 51).  I raced Lightnings out of Seattle in the 1980's and remember Mark Patty's boat.  I remember thinking the same thing about his "piano".  I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  It was too gorgeous to mix it up in a competitive fleet, but he did.   I think he called it (or one of his other boats) Peppermint Patty.  I must have seen him at one of the San Diego NA's or maybe he brought it to Seattle for the 84 NA's.  Do you know him?  Thanks for the blast from the past

Well, it was also the '80s when I was racing Lightnings in SF with Mark and others; he was always the guy to catch (and a really nice guy too!).  His wife is named Patty, hence the boat names - his prior boat was named that, not sure of the wood one.  I moved to Seattle in '89, but sold my boat (#14079, 'Casper') to the Hickmans in Oregon shortly after, cause the (ex) wife didn't like racing.  Haven't seen Mark in many years, just thought his quote was appropriate.

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On 1/19/2018 at 8:51 PM, Tanton Y_M said:

A sailor 40' power boat. Previous boat, a Tanton 46' sailboat. Both aluminum built.

300RHpic7-JY12-10.jpg

300RHpic6-JY12-10 (2).jpg

 

Mister Yves Tanton,

I have tremendous respect for your designs back in the IOR days, of the 1980's, when I was a young man running those boats. I would like to see more detail of this boats interior, as the double keel design is very different and makes sense, but I am having a hard time warming up to the aesthetics of this design?  I hope that further information might bring me around to becoming a fan of this design...

Warm Regards
!!

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45 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Mister Yves Tanton,

I have tremendous respect for your designs back in the IOR days, of the 1980's, when I was a young man running those boats. I would like to see more detail of this boats interior, as the double keel design is very different and makes sense, but I am having a hard time warming up to the aesthetics of this design?  I hope that further information might bring me around to becoming a fan of this design...

Warm Regards
!!

From his blog, November 17, 2015, third boat on this page:

http://tantonyachtdesign.blogspot.com/2015/11/on-drawing-board-now.html

Quote

The GLC 40 is under bids now. The ambition is to complete the Great Loop Circuit. Designed for a repeat customer, this aluminum boat is on the simple and rugged side of Yachting.

The project started based on the "Gentleman Cruiser" but evolved to something different, more adapted to the method of construction and the ultimate goal for the vessel.

The interior is for a couple, and does not allow guests to feel comfortable for long, the way it ought to be.

It has been decided to drop the nose to increase the visibility from the pilothouse. This boat is a coastal, river boat with the Great Loop in mind.

228Rpic12.jpg

300RHpic4-JE25-10.jpg

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3 hours ago, lasal said:

10nm/gallon @10knots sounds pretty good.

image.thumb.png.adf4af21f5b14c1dbad29991b742f4e7.png

image.png.eb1ae8ba961a27152e9f2f3961f0283f.png

Looks great but how is it possible? Hull speed should be around 8kts, so 10kts at 1gph seems particularly optimistic, no?  Particularly if something like the skoota gets 7nmpg - know it’s more complicated than that but I’d love to know how/if it works. 

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6 hours ago, socalrider said:

Looks great but how is it possible? Hull speed should be around 8kts, so 10kts at 1gph seems particularly optimistic, no?  Particularly if something like the skoota gets 7nmpg - know it’s more complicated than that but I’d love to know how/if it works. 

I believe speed/range data on a powerboat after I have personally collected it.

Most powerboaters are about as accurate as fishermen talking about the one that got away.

I really don't get it. Even more than on sailboats, these numbers are very knowable. Why not know the real ones?

I don't mean to be insulting toward the boat you're talking about or the claims made. I don't believe ANY of them until I see the boat actually do it on the water with my own eyes.

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Riva Aquarama Special... in fact, just any wooden Riva. They don't build these anymore, so the price of a well-kept unit is out of reach. 

 

 

5a578281ca70480aa242a1868e18b767.jpg

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Don't own one of these, but sure would like to. From the man who brought us the Laser.

Classic lines, and low carbon footprint. 

image.png.b36fb537ec9a1e144496e4489c57699c.png

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2 minutes ago, Plumber said:

Don't own one of these, but sure would like to. From the man who brought us the Laser.

Classic lines, and low carbon footprint. 

image.png.b36fb537ec9a1e144496e4489c57699c.png

Those boats are nice to  sit in and drive , but they are difficult to live with.

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One of the smoothest most refined rides ever in a run about was in a 30' Hacker-Craft. These wood boats are beauties!

image.png.baf1e5d8659f3110b73d1eebb7eb784a.png

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For my present wallet either of these two would do

The Handy Billy or the Pulsifer Hampton

170EBDFE-A181-434A-AD20-332A4FC088B2.jpeg

681DDE93-A684-4CDE-9403-08147FEECF6A.jpeg

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Modern motorboats with open transoms are very nice to operate.

form and function . Many times a small tender can be carried aft

IMG_7936.jpg

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23 hours ago, carcrash said:

Its amazing how often 1nm/gal is what people tend to get. I got pretty much the same on our Fountain sport fishing boat, on the Nordic Tug 32 we chartered, on our offshore speed boat, on our lake hot rod jet boat, on both the Fleming 55 and 65 I was fortunate enough to cruise long distance aboard. Somewhat different speeds (8 to 60 knots), but surprisingly similar fuel burns, gas or diesel. Maybe it has to do with what the humans can stand. More power is more fuel burn, but also more noise and vibration, and sometimes more harsh motion underway,

Haha. If the fountain is 800 hp or so at 60 knots on gasoline, that's pretty dead on.
Well diesel is close to 20 bhp/gal/hr...and gas around 12-13 ish depending.

A 70 foot 1400 hp planing boat doing 22 knots is pretty comfy too. But that's 3.2 gal per mile.
However an 8000 hp tug doing 13 knots with its barge is super comfy. But not 1 nmpg:-)

 

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23 hours ago, socalrider said:

Gorgeous.  That's just the sort of vessel that tempts me away from the sailboats occasionally.  The trip to Catalina from here is just a long slog directly into wind, waves and current anyway.  How would you rate the comfort in a swell versus a keelboat?  I never get seasick on sailboats, but have gotten violently ill on planing hull sport fishing vessels a few times due to (I think) the quicker pitching motion.  I have never been on a trawler style boat for any length of time.  

 

I agree the motion on a powerboat is different than a sailboat. Any long crossing of bluewater, I'd much prefer the slower roll of a sailboat. This boat has a quicker roll period (3-4 sec) than most because of its low CG. On the other hand, she is very stiff, resisting initial roll and motion, especially underway. We crossed many exposed sections of water on the east coast including the Gulf Stream and several of the Great Lakes, and Georgia Strait in the PNW. Like any sensible boater, I picked my weather window carefully and avoided beam seas when I could.

BTW, the 3.75 nm/gal fuel burn was real-calculated over 10,000 GPS miles traveled divided by gallons of fuel purchased.

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14 hours ago, socalrider said:

Looks great but how is it possible? Hull speed should be around 8kts, so 10kts at 1gph seems particularly optimistic, no?  Particularly if something like the skoota gets 7nmpg - know it’s more complicated than that but I’d love to know how/if it works. 

Bieker lists the specs for that design, and my spreadsheet shows about 33hp (at the prop) for 10knots. Hull speed is 8.37, at 22hp. So it takes 11hp to slide up on the bow wave an additional 1.63kn (semi-displacement features). 53hp naturally aspirated Yanmar with a 3:1 gearbox and that huge 29" VP prop. According to Yanmar, that fuel burn is not optimistic. Your mileage may vary, especially if using the Paravanes in rough conditions.

The Skoota's Honda just isn't as efficient and those extra 4knots (14knots cruise it said) require that much more fuel.

Bieker's 40'er is I would call a sailor's powerboat because it has a very efficient hull form with the freeboard kept low, and it's designed to cover some ground in most conditions (VP prop and Paravanes). It's unusual because the market generally prefers bigger boats on that DWL. Buyers calculate the added fuel burn for a Selene for example, and see the fuel cost difference isn't that big in the grand scheme of owning and operating the boat. And, sailors could argue that if you're going to build a sailboat hull, more or less, and add Paravanes, why not put a sailing rig and a ballast keel on it and live with 7knots under power?

 

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, lasal said:

 

Bieker's 40'er is I would call a sailor's powerboat because it has a very efficient hull form with the freeboard kept low, and it's designed to cover some ground in most conditions (VP prop and Paravanes). It's unusual because the market generally prefers bigger boats on that DWL. Buyers calculate the added fuel burn for a Selene for example, and see the fuel cost difference isn't that big in the grand scheme of owning and operating the boat. And, sailors could argue that if you're going to build a sailboat hull, more or less, and add Paravanes, why not put a sailing rig and a ballast keel on it and live with 7knots under power?

 

 

 

 

^ This.         +1    

If you're buying or building a new boat,  the cost of fuel (even if it tripled) is not a factor overall.   (availability of fuel at any price however, might be a determining factor when choosing your dream/bug out boat)

 

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8 minutes ago, Veeger said:

^ This.         +1    

If you're buying or building a new boat,  the cost of fuel (even if it tripled) is not a factor overall.   (availability of fuel at any price however, might be a determining factor when choosing your dream/bug out boat)

 

Its the availablity ...sometimes one hundred miles of coast with no marine fuel docks...jerry jugs  and taxi cabs are ok ...but it gets old fast .

in high season a fuel dock might have a one hour or more waiting line of boats 

the reason you have a motorboat is to cover miles fast ...how fast  and how many miles is a number only the client knows 

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8 hours ago, kotick said:

Riva Aquarama Special... in fact, just any wooden Riva. They don't build these anymore, so the price of a well-kept unit is out of reach. 

 

 

5a578281ca70480aa242a1868e18b767.jpg

The right powerboat for those who already own a Wally, a skerry cruiser, and a wooden twelve. 

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Flat sides so fenders sit nice against sailing boat

Light composite construction so it doesn't bang against sailing boat when alongside [Needs water ballast tank tho]

No skeg or V so it can go right in to shore to take dogs for a p#ss. First mate can get ashore without getting her feet wet too

Open transom [Great for dragging wake boarders, dogs and conger eels through]

Double berth 

 

Pssyche.jpg

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You guys are way overthinking this. I have a 20 foot center console that works pretty well for me. It has done race committee, served as a dive platform and lake runabout, not hard to get on and off the trailer, and pretty damn hard to hurt.  Just hose it down, and it's happy. It takes chop and swells pretty well, None of the floating piano or things that can't fit in a slip or that you are afraid to actually use.

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Yeah, it's true, but we can dream, can't we?  

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1 hour ago, barleymalt said:

You guys are way overthinking this. I have a 20 foot center console that works pretty well for me. It has done race committee, served as a dive platform and lake runabout, not hard to get on and off the trailer, and pretty damn hard to hurt.  Just hose it down, and it's happy. It takes chop and swells pretty well, None of the floating piano or things that can't fit in a slip or that you are afraid to actually use.

I don't think I'd want to take it on a 3-month cruise around Vancouver Island.

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34 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I don't think I'd want to take it on a 3-month cruise around Vancouver Island.

Where would you stable your horse?

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10 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Modern motorboats with open transoms are very nice to operate.

form and function . Many times a small tender can be carried aft

IMG_7936.jpg

She definitely looks tender!

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58 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I don't think I'd want to take it on a 3-month cruise around Vancouver Island.

Our Yacht Club did a cruise around Vancouver Island in 017. At first we had quite a few interested. But then the power boat owners started adding up the fuel costs. 5 sail boats did the trip. No fizz boats. They either; used too much fuel, lacked cruising comforts, rolled like a bastard, had trouble punching in to waces, or all of the above. A Fisher 30 with 45 hp was the fastest under power, and the slowest under sail. The 39 foot long keel sail boat sailed and motored well. The 40 long keel heavy sail boat was a bit slow, both modes. The 32 foot Hunter with the big main and small jib, went okay, both modes. Our Viking was the second fastest under power at around 7.1 in flat water, and the fastest under sail. All told we did 980 NM. Was easy to add up the fuel used. The main tank is 48 liters, which is not much. We carried three 20 liter jugs. We stopped most everywhere and took 2 months. Can be done in a couple of days in a fast fizz boat. But what for. My idea of a power boat, is a bigger engine and trim tabs for the Viking. Might hit 7.5 to 8. But we do that with the sails up. We motor at around 5.75. Sometimes at 3 when the waves and wind and current are against us. Sometimes zero, for a while, until the tide changes. The Viking has a shit hot motion.

The other 360 boats we met were all sail. An Ontario 32 from Sidney BC. A slow heavy steel boat from Puget Sound area. We would be about 2 hours in front of him after about 40 miles.

Unkle Krusty

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3 hours ago, teamvmg said:

Flat sides so fenders sit nice against sailing boat

Light composite construction so it doesn't bang against sailing boat when alongside [Needs water ballast tank tho]

No skeg or V so it can go right in to shore to take dogs for a p#ss. First mate can get ashore without getting her feet wet too

Open transom [Great for dragging wake boarders, dogs and conger eels through]

Double berth 

 

Pssyche.jpg

Would you be insulted if I nominated this for Admiration by the Society?

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11 hours ago, Scotch Caps said:

No brainer. Shelter Island Runabout. Wolf in sheep's clothing.

http://www.chmarineyachts.com/boat1.cfm

 

 

runabout.jpg

They haven't updated their web page to say how fast it will go with twin 370 hp diesels.

But I guess twin 315's just were not enough for some.

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59 minutes ago, Unkle Crusty said:

Our Yacht Club did a cruise around Vancouver Island in 017. At first we had quite a few interested. But then the power boat owners started adding up the fuel costs. 5 sail boats did the trip. No fizz boats. They either; used too much fuel, lacked cruising comforts, rolled like a bastard, had trouble punching in to waces, or all of the above. A Fisher 30 with 45 hp was the fastest under power, and the slowest under sail. The 39 foot long keel sail boat sailed and motored well. The 40 long keel heavy sail boat was a bit slow, both modes. The 32 foot Hunter with the big main and small jib, went okay, both modes. Our Viking was the second fastest under power at around 7.1 in flat water, and the fastest under sail. All told we did 980 NM. Was easy to add up the fuel used. The main tank is 48 liters, which is not much. We carried three 20 liter jugs. We stopped most everywhere and took 2 months. Can be done in a couple of days in a fast fizz boat. But what for. My idea of a power boat, is a bigger engine and trim tabs for the Viking. Might hit 7.5 to 8. But we do that with the sails up. We motor at around 5.75. Sometimes at 3 when the waves and wind and current are against us. Sometimes zero, for a while, until the tide changes. The Viking has a shit hot motion.

The other 360 boats we met were all sail. An Ontario 32 from Sidney BC. A slow heavy steel boat from Puget Sound area. We would be about 2 hours in front of him after about 40 miles.

Unkle Krusty

We went around solo (one couple) in 2013. We met lots of wonderful people. We had a very light-wind event, spent lots of time motoring up inlets to supposed provisioning spots. We had a great time. 

Ri1tFrk.jpg

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17 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Would you be insulted if I nominated this for Admiration by the Society?

I would be honored. The only thing more admirable in this thread is that rediculouse Cowmaran. Oh wait. you weren't talking to me. I take that back.

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