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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Maroon

Sailors Powerboat

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You can’t even get a boat from Washington to California without paperwork problems in English!!

Pick the right lottery ticket and you can buy all of us one of those beauties :D

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37 minutes ago, olsurfer said:

I want that boat! Too bad it's in France and with VAT and shipping. Sigh,,, Wish I was rich. Is the devil still buying souls?

You won't have to pay VAT on a second hand boat.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Here's a powerboat that I know was a sailor's powerboat: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/499195939918469091   (look at Martha) 

Direct links:
http://beautifulswimmers.tumblr.com/post/75176541749/our-bronza-parks-built-draketail-martha-the
http://beautifulswimmers.tumblr.com/tagged/Martha

tumblr_n0a8hmiZd01r4h911o4_1280.jpg

tumblr_n0a8hmiZd01r4h911o3_1280.jpg

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50 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

You won't have to pay VAT on a second hand boat.

Keep a close eye on that ...VAT can be an issue for certain buyers 

IMG_8073.PNG

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6 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

AFAIK If you export the boat from the EU, you don't have to pay VAT.

Correct ....if the new owner of the boat is not a citizen of the EU.

then there is a time limit for export 

any boat will need to be reflaged....

best to ask .....carefully 

normally a broker will know...then you ask a tax lawyer.  The tax adviser companies  are in every port...typically next door to the broker 

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5 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Shouldn't a used boat get a value subtracted deduction instead?

You mean should a vat paid boat have a higher value than a vat unpaid boat 

yes

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32 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Shouldn't a used boat get a value subtracted deduction instead?

No, once it is VAT paid, you can't get it back.

As far as I understand (I am an engineer not an accountant):

If Vat registered company buys a new boat, it pays full price and then gets VAT back from the taxman. If the said company sells it to somebody outside of the EU, it can sell it without VAT (so boat is VAT free). If the company sells it to another VAT registered company, it sells it, charges VAT (and give it to the tax man) but the other company will be able to claim back VAT. If the company sells the boat to a physical person inside the EU, the company has to charge VAT (and give it to the tax man) and the physical person won't be able to claim back VAT. If said person sells the boat again, no VAT is involved.

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4 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

No, once it is VAT paid, you can't get it back.

As far as I understand (I am an engineer not an accountant):

If Vat registered company buys a new boat, it pays full price and then gets VAT back from the taxman. If the said company sells it to somebody outside of the EU, it can sell it without VAT (so boat is VAT free). If the company sells it to another VAT registered company, it sells it, charges VAT (and give it to the tax man) but the other company will be able to claim back VAT. If the company sells the boat to a physical person inside the EU, the company has to charge VAT (and give it to the tax man) and the physical person won't be able to claim back VAT. If said person sells the boat again, no VAT is involved.

that sounds like what i have experienced.  Always best to double check.  Slight difference between EU states

Normally on sale they ask the new private  buyer to prove country of tax residency .

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3 hours ago, olsurfer said:

The lack of much of a wake for a boat this size and at this speed is noteworthy.

 

 

Nothing new about that. Here's Aphrodite from 1937:

https://usharbors.com/video-gallery/aboard-classic-1937-commuter-yacht-aphrodite

Go to 5:00 min in the vid. Used to see her tooling about Fishers Island Sound.

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12 hours ago, Zonker said:

The Seapiper has a bow forefoot that is too deep for following seas. She will bow steer I bet.

Rolly too, I suspect.

I don't get the trailerable beam limitation. How big a selling point is it that you can trailer your 35' powerboat that has a 2000nm range? Why give up the internal volume and suffer a high L/B? 

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Russian chicks, he sold one to Abramovich :), or Argentinian, sold one to our king too.

That company has an interesting marketing, send your son 7 months a year into the jetset scene around the world, and start selling. His skills are good as they have a good production run. Boats made in The Netherlands, very precise in the details.

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18 hours ago, fastyacht said:

The question though is, "what kind of chicks?"

Certainly, any bloke that can drop 1.8 million for that awesome boat, has no problem attracting chicks!!

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This is a "no sailors" powerboat - a new Navy drone ship!  132 ft, 27 knots top speed.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sea-hunter-us-navy-actuv-darpa-2018-2/

Quote

And since it's fully autonomous, there's no crew onboard or humans controlling it remotely.
[...]
It can also operate by itself over a long distance without refueling. “This vessel can go from [California] to Hawaii and back," Dejaco said.

http://www.businessinsider.com/darpa-actuv-navy-warship-2016-5

http://www.businessinsider.com/actuv-darpa-drone-warship-2016-4

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23 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

And since it's fully autonomous, there's no crew onboard or humans controlling it remotely.

Does this make merchant ships more or less safe from ramming?

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8 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:
23 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

And since it's fully autonomous, there's no crew onboard or humans controlling it remotely.

Does this make merchant ships more or less safe from ramming?

Zing!  Seriously though, one has to wonder how safe a fully autonomous high speed 132' drone ship is for small (sail)boats who may get in its way?

7 hours ago, Jim Caldwell said:

What does it do when it find a sub/ No armaments?

Quote

If it finds a sub for example, it will follow it from two miles away and then alert the fleet.
[...]
While at sea, ACTUV will communicate information back to a military control center as well as to nearby Navy vessels and aircraft.

 

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Wave piercing stabilisers. Why not wave piercing cross beams? There’s probably less cross-sectional area in the hulls from bow-on.

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2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Does this make merchant ships more or less safe from ramming?

Hah!  I’d think programming avoidance of a cargo ship has to be pretty damned simple given where we are on autonomous driving. 

I’d bet almost any ship/boat piloting situation would be vastly easier to automate than urban car driving.  Given the current sorry state of mobo piloting from the US Navy down to that old dude mowing down those fishermen this gives me hope that the seas might be safer for us soon. Maybe. 

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2 hours ago, socalrider said:

Hah!  I’d think programming avoidance of a cargo ship has to be pretty damned simple given where we are on autonomous driving. 

I’d bet almost any ship/boat piloting situation would be vastly easier to automate than urban car driving.  Given the current sorry state of mobo piloting from the US Navy down to that old dude mowing down those fishermen this gives me hope that the seas might be safer for us soon. Maybe. 

Considering that even manned ship's radars rarely see 45 foot sailboats--even when they have proper reflectors--I highly doubt an automated system will do *better.* There's nobody on the bridge to call on channel 16!

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1 hour ago, HFC Hunter said:

Wave piercing stabilisers. Why not wave piercing cross beams? There’s probably less cross-sectional area in the hulls from bow-on.

Because they are high enough out of the water...   that tri has amazingly similar hull length/beam, main hull to ama, ama volume to main hull volume and cross beam locations to my 24ft tri. ;)

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6 hours ago, socalrider said:
8 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Does this make merchant ships more or less safe from ramming?

Hah!  I’d think programming avoidance of a cargo ship has to be pretty damned simple given where we are on autonomous driving. 

You'd think avoiding them manually would be pretty simple too, but...

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3 hours ago, fastyacht said:

There's nobody on the bridge to call on channel 16!

That there is why the will always be human interaction , and yes I'm well aware of the difficulties of Ch 16 in places like Sth China Sea , Indian Ocean and Red Sea to name a few , BUT continuously hailing normally does raise a contact .

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7 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

You'd think avoiding them manually would be pretty simple too, but...

Normally is , but then you get situations where fast LPG carriers cut corners in separation schemes ............:blink:

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6 hours ago, fastyacht said:

Considering that even manned ship's radars rarely see 45 foot sailboats--even when they have proper reflectors--I highly doubt an automated system will do *better.* There's nobody on the bridge to call on channel 16!

Automated ships would operate in shipping lanes...small craft are not a problem .  I cant imagine that an automated ship would be operated without human oversight .

inshore...the region of shipping accidents ....requires better land based  traffic control .  You  now see this everywhere in the world .

in conflicted areas...four countries who share the same sea lane and who must cooperate to  control it ...become complex. 

since none of us know the details of  any accident...bridge to bridge vhf communications ..its difficult to blame accidents on language , communications problems .  I suspect that these language issues are real 

consider the US navy ..left and right...instead of port and starboard. 

 

IMG_8104.PNG

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2 hours ago, slug zitski said:

Automated ships would operate in shipping lanes...small craft are not a problem .

<SNIP>

 

huh? That makes no sense.
And furthermore, I've had to hail a ship in the open ocean...it isn't just about "near shore" and "shipping lanes" are meaningless mid-ocean. I looked and looked but could not find the big yellow stripe in the Atlantic.

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in Slugs world ships will follow the same dedicated path , time and time again  ;)

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2 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

huh? That makes no sense.
And furthermore, I've had to hail a ship in the open ocean...it isn't just about "near shore" and "shipping lanes" are meaningless mid-ocean. I looked and looked but could not find the big yellow stripe in the Atlantic.

How many collisions have the geniuses in our US Navy suffered in the past year or two?  Autonomous ships?  I don't think so!!

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

How many collisions have the geniuses in our US Navy suffered in the past year or two?  Autonomous ships?  I don't think so!!

Funny - I get the opposite conclusion from the navy’s collisions! ;)  (only half joking)

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1 minute ago, nige said:

Funny - I get the opposite conclusion from the navy’s collisions! ;)  (only half joking)

Not funny! Perhaps Navy ships would be safer if on autonomous pilot 24/7!

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

Not funny! Perhaps Navy ships would be safer if on autonomous pilot 24/7!

That’s exactly my point. If a Tesla can pick out a pedestrian jaywalking and avoid them, it should be easy for an automated freighter to avoid a sailboat, or at least send out an automated channel 16 call and five blasts as warning that collision is imminent.  If the sailboat had functioning class B AIS avoidance should be even easier.

The logic and sensors for cars is quickly getting to the point where it’s better than a human driver.  I’d bet for shipping it’s an easier challenge.  You might still need crew for ops and maintenance but maybe not long for piloting?

 

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33 minutes ago, socalrider said:

That’s exactly my point. If a Tesla can pick out a pedestrian jaywalking and avoid them, it should be easy for an automated freighter to avoid a sailboat, or at least send out an automated channel 16 call and five blasts as warning that collision is imminent.  If the sailboat had functioning class B AIS avoidance should be even easier.

The logic and sensors for cars is quickly getting to the point where it’s better than a human driver.  I’d bet for shipping it’s an easier challenge.  You might still need crew for ops and maintenance but maybe not long for piloting?

 

Do you realise that in most case the sailboat is stand on?

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1 hour ago, socalrider said:

If a Tesla can pick out a pedestrian jaywalking and avoid them, it should be easy for an automated freighter to avoid a sailboat

WHY TESLA'S AUTOPILOT CAN'T SEE A STOPPED FIRETRUCK
https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/

Quote

ON MONDAY, A Tesla Model S slammed into the back of a stopped firetruck on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles County. The driver apparently told the fire department the car was in Autopilot mode at the time. The crash highlighted the shortcomings of the increasingly common semi-autonomous systems that let cars drive themselves in limited conditions.
[...]
“Traffic-Aware Cruise Control cannot detect all objects and may not brake/decelerate for stationary vehicles, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h) and a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary vehicle or object is in front of you instead.”

https://twitter.com/CC_Firefighters/status/955529991319560192

Quote

While working a freeway accident this morning, Engine 42 was struck by a #Tesla traveling at 65 mph. The driver reports the vehicle was on autopilot. Amazingly there were no injuries! Please stay alert while driving!

DUK5c-bVQAAw20C.jpg:large

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14 minutes ago, fastyacht said:
28 minutes ago, MikeR80 said:

Hinckley_Dasher_2017_1647_9273.thumb.jpg.e94dae982a78170797c5d8daaf90da67.jpg

Wally was here first.

I wonder how many drunks and drinks roll out the back.

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

I wonder how many drunks and drinks roll out the back.

I wanna hook up a black marlin while sitting on that bench sipping a Doctor Pepper.

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8 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I wonder how many drunks and drinks roll out the back.

FULL NOISE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:lol:

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10 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I wonder how many drunks and drinks roll out the back.

I wonder what a strong following, breaking sea would do to that?!!

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11 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I wonder how many drunks and drinks roll out the back.

All

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22 hours ago, fastyacht said:

I wanna hook up a black marlin while sitting on that bench sipping a Doctor Pepper.

I hear you fast, but you really want a place to brace your feet or legs when you hook into a big fish. Unless you're kidding, then that is funny!

Even Hinckley can build an ugly boat I guess. They were probably building it to order and to see what it feels like.

 Here is some eye candy to fix that mess:

Islander-NIBS.thumb.jpg.448260449fd58146af6eeb3436e8d376.jpg

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22 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I wonder how many drunks and drinks roll out the back.

Is that a chicken and egg question, or a why did the chicken cross the road question?

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3 hours ago, lasal said:

I hear you fast, but you really want a place to brace your feet or legs when you hook into a big fish. Unless you're kidding, then that is funny!

Even Hinckley can build an ugly boat I guess. They were probably building it to order and to see what it feels like.

 Here is some eye candy to fix that mess:

Islander-NIBS.thumb.jpg.448260449fd58146af6eeb3436e8d376.jpg

Cool. I like the washing machine on the back. You think they have an umbrella dryer they mount in the middle?

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11 hours ago, lasal said:

I hear you fast, but you really want a place to brace your feet or legs when you hook into a big fish. Unless you're kidding, then that is funny!

Even Hinckley can build an ugly boat I guess. They were probably building it to order and to see what it feels like.

 Here is some eye candy to fix that mess:

Islander-NIBS.thumb.jpg.448260449fd58146af6eeb3436e8d376.jpg

 

unless they have removable washboards to close up the transom, that boat is doomed in a big, breaking, following seaway.

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

unless they have removable washboards to close up the transom, that boat is doomed in a big, breaking, following seaway.

No no no you've missed the point, you're never to leave the dock.  That big white thing on the back is a blender for your frozen margaritas, which is your drink of choice and matches your taste in boats.

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3 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

unless they have removable washboards to close up the transom, that boat is doomed in a big, breaking, following seaway.

Other than the monstrous O/B pylon - I like the rest of if... Looks a lot like a Pulsifer Hampton or Jericho Bay lobster skiff.  

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Other than the monstrous O/B pylon - I like the rest of if... Looks a lot like a Pulsifer Hampton or Jericho Bay lobster skiff.  

 

Guy at the YC we used to belong to had a smallis wood Pulsifier that was gorgeous.  Those lines are similar to a friends Monomy CC Launch but the bow curves upward a bit more.

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On 1/23/2018 at 9:13 PM, Pipe Dream said:

To me, something like this has a lot of merit.

mainpic.jpg

http://www.powercatsnz.com/public/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.showdesign&ID=162

 

Very nice boats. Nearly bought one, but it was too wide to fit on a trailer alonside my house. A longer Fountain fit with inches to spare each side. I would have needed a chain saw ...

 

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I dontthink outboard motors are obnoxious. Look funny in drawings and photos,  but in real life, onboard and off, especially when using or maintaining or storing the boat, outboards are the way to go.

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I know I have posted this boat earlier in the thread, but I should mention I have had her out in rough Puget Sound conditions on numerous occasions; 30-40 knots of breeze and those nasty 5-6 foot short period square chops we get. She handles herself very well in those conditions.

I once crossed in 45 knots and 6-7’ chop (about the worse we ever see around her) and although I wouldn’t say I was comfortable, I will say she was completely comfortable, and that was with the chop following us across. I did play the throttle a bit to try and keep us on the back of the next chop ahead of us and was generally successful. It was wet, but I was wearing a Mustang full exposure suit, so the wet was not much of an issue.

We improved her greatly when we added a couple small trim tabs to her to allow controlling how high her bow rode in various different conditions.

(Thank you Jan Anderson for the great picture!)

A0F0A4B3-30BC-4D6F-BDC8-966916756074.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Very nice boats. Nearly bought one, but it was too wide to fit on a trailer alonside my house. A longer Fountain fit with inches to spare each side. I would have needed a chain saw ...

 

Power Catamaran have much going for them if you can solve the moorage issues created by the greater beam. If not for the moorage challenges, I think we would see many more of them.

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33 minutes ago, carcrash said:

I dontthink outboard motors are obnoxious. Look funny in drawings and photos,  but in real life, onboard and off, especially when using or maintaining or storing the boat, outboards are the way to go.

That boat is short.. but its a long boat with the motor ...wasted space  and a short waterline on a small boat .

that huge piece of metal way out back ,  unbalances the boat 

IMG_8134.JPG

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5 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

That boats is short.. but its a long boat with that motor ...wasted space  and a short waterline on a small boat .

that huge piece of metal way out back ,  unbalances the boat 

IMG_8134.JPG

With those vertical sides and no rub rail, that thing would be heinous around docks and pilings. Might as well go ahead and paint the topsides with truck bed liner.... 

That being said, as long as the hull is designed to carry the weight of the outboard I don't see a problem. I'd much rather have an OB on a boat this size than an inboard. And then there's the worst of both worlds, the inboard-outboard... Ugh. 

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3 minutes ago, MisterMoon said:

With those vertical sides and no rub rail, that thing would be heinous around docks and pilings. Might as well go ahead and paint the topsides with truck bed liner.... 

This is true...but the design uses space very well ...

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5 minutes ago, slug zitski said:

This is true...but the design uses space very well ...

Except the design of the exterior spaces designed to protect the topsides from scratches or worse from docks, pilings, anchors and rodes, etc.

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21 hours ago, olsurfer said:

She's lived on Lake Tahoe since 1940.

IMG_6901.JPG

got any details? This isn't the one I've heard about with the Spitfire engine is it? 

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Allison aircraft engines, not Merlins. I believe those were used in the P-39 and P-40 and in the proto P-51. I'd love to see that one up close and personal. 

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

Google thinks they are Deusenbergs, not Spitfire.

http://thunderbirdtahoe.org/yacht-history

https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/entertainment/after-75-years-on-lake-tahoe-historic-thunderbird-yacht-getting-new-engines/

Quote

The upgrade began with an overhaul of the engines, which came from a P-38 Lightning aircraft. The engines were repaired at Vintage V12s, a vintage engine restoration company based out of Tehachapi, Calif.

http://thunderbirdtahoe.org/yacht-history

Quote

the yacht was rescued by casino magnate William F. Harrah, who purchased it from Whittell in 1962. Harrah had it transported to his Automobile Collection restoration shop in Reno where it was reverentially refurbished. His workmen added a matching, brushed stainless steel flying bridge and replaced the original Kermath engines (which when removed had only 83 original hours on them) with two V-12 Allison aircraft engines, each developing 1100 horsepower.

 

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Well hell, if you're *going* to oxidize that much fuel, you might as well do it with some class.  

I would love to hear & feel twin 1100hp Allison V-12's at full throttle.

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On 2/13/2018 at 5:47 PM, olsurfer said:

More info

They say it takes $250K a year to operate, but to me, it's as bad assed as it gets!

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=100045

 

 

20120727_160618.jpg

 

I would guess that 250k is Crew Salary only, on a Feadship or Huisman, ?

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11 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I would guess that 250k is Crew Salary only, on a Feadship or Huisman, ?

That's not even enough. You've got captain, relief capatain, 1st mate, 2nd, chief engineer, 2nd engineer, deckhand, assistant deck hand, chef, assistant chef, pasty chef, chief stew, 3 other stews, butler, valet, yoga/pilates coach, life coach, personal trainer, body guard, and the pool boy.

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