wristwister

Is this bad?

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So OMG, the motor was going "vrooom vrooom vrooom", then it went "vroom knock vroom knock", then it went "clank crunch bang crash boom".

Question: is there supposed to be, like, a hole in the side with a piston pusher thingy hanging out? Can someone recommend, like, a special oil or something i can put in the engine to make it all better?

 

holeS.jpg

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I would just remove the noisy loose parts. Patch the hole. Maybe add some oil. I did this once. Ran my 4 banger as a 3 for a few thousand miles. Worked fine. Had that cool Harley-Davidson rhythm.

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Bardahl!

image.png.bd9b7f520be4ff4efd66cab6eb4816ae.png

Says it removes lots of troublesome enginey things, though is not specific about con-rods.

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Duct tape over the hole so the oil doesn't leak out.

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Looks like a Sole Diesel that had a bad case of piston escapement.......

Repair by replacement.........sorry......just DOLLAR$.....

Cheers,

Jim :unsure:

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Doesn't look like there was ever any oil in it to begin with, 

why start now?

 

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So do I just mix the bondo, paint, epoxy, Bardahl, JB Weld and STP together and pour it into the engine?

But seriously folks, this is the Atomic 4 in my daughter's new (to her) Tartan 30. She got a screaming good deal on the boat as the engine had a knock and we knew it was on it's last legs. We sailed it up from Santa Cruz to the Bay Area, and just before we got to her marina the connecting rod gave way and this was the result.

Going to pick up another A4 this weekend, rebuild it for her, and swap it in.

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Good opportunity to upgrade to something safer than 'the bomb'?

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20 hours ago, wristwister said:

So OMG, the motor was going "vrooom vrooom vrooom", then it went "vroom knock vroom knock", then it went "clank crunch bang crash boom".

Question: is there supposed to be, like, a hole in the side with a piston pusher thingy hanging out? Can someone recommend, like, a special oil or something i can put in the engine to make it all better?

 

holeS.jpg

Dump some Marvel's Mystery Oil in her - once it all runs out, all those surfaces will be coated with magic lube and she'll pull herself back together and run forever. 
Sorry to hear about your lunched engine - hopefully you can find a long-block replacement at a decent price.  

 

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Seabell, yes we considered this as an opportunity to switch to diesel, but it's not in the cards due to the MUCH higher cost and boat surgery involved. I know there's debate on the safety of a gas engine in a sailboat (for some reason that debate doesn't apply to powerboats), but I'm a stickler for the correct safety measures and I'm good with the old A4, especially in my daughter's boat. Got one in my boat too.

Chesapeake Guy, I've located an engine to rebuild. These old engines are incredibly simple, with good availability of rebuild parts at decent prices. I'm kinda looking forward to the project. 

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Yup, well acquainted with Moyer. I'm studying his rebuild manual now, and making my shopping list for the needed bits and pieces.

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Wrist, check out this thread on SN. Granted it's about a Perkins rebuild but there are lots of tips & tricks that will apply to the job you're taking on.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel/95276-perkins-4-108m-diy-rebuild-narrative-4.html#post968291

Have fun - it's a really satisfying rush the first time an engine lights after you have rebuilt it yourself. It continues to be a source of satisfaction every time you light it off afterwards too.

Saving a couple or three boat bucks is just icing on the cake.

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16 hours ago, wristwister said:

So do I just mix the bondo, paint, epoxy, Bardahl, JB Weld and STP together and pour it into the engine?

But seriously folks, this is the Atomic 4 in my daughter's new (to her) Tartan 30. She got a screaming good deal on the boat as the engine had a knock and we knew it was on it's last legs. We sailed it up from Santa Cruz to the Bay Area, and just before we got to her marina the connecting rod gave way and this was the result.

Going to pick up another A4 this weekend, rebuild it for her, and swap it in.

Do her a favor and substitute a diesel in for the A4. Hell, it's your daughter and nobody has to explain the safety and reliability advantage of the diesel. 

http://www.betamarinenw.com/Applications/atomicfour.html

More work to convert but it's not a killer.

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I certainly agree Jerry, the Beta diesel would absolutely be the way to go ... if money were no object. Spending far more than the entire boat costed for a repower is tough to swallow, especially on her limited budget. 

Also, the idea that the Atomic 4 is deadly is highly overblown. This debate has been going on forever. But ... I can't argue that Diesel isn't safer, and you're right, this is my daughter we're talking about here.

The Seattle boat show is coming right up, and there are always a couple vendors there pushing good deals on Betas. Who knows, maybe some slick salesman will wear me down!

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I see decent looking used diesels going cheap on CL from time to time now that they are scrapping boats.

I totally agree about the overblown (;)) danger of gas engines. Propane blows up WAY more boats than gas does but few people say ditch the stove for diesel.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I see decent looking used diesels going cheap on CL from time to time now that they are scrapping boats.

I totally agree about the overblown (;)) danger of gas engines. Propane blows up WAY more boats than gas does but few people say ditch the stove for diesel.

Not many convert their stoves to gasoline, either.

Edited by Ishmael
entropy

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This was settled twenty years ago with the advent of the internet. The accessibility of repair information and the easy availability of parts means that there is one and only one demonstrable reason to convert an Atomic Four-equipped sailboat to diesel. That reason is range.

It is certainly not safety. The fact that thousands of gas-powered powerboats are manufactured and operated safely to this day, often by complete imbeciles, is irrefutable proof that marine gas engines are safe ENOUGH. There are a thousand ways to come to harm with boats. Carelessness or ignorance handling fuel is just not a frequent one, especially with sailors.

It is certainly not reliability. The easy parts are all cross-referenced on the internet and available at auto parts stores, and some of them are even available at Walmart. The hard and the easy parts are available from Moyer, plus a complete service/rebuild manual, plus as much support as you’d ever want from the website and forums. If your A4 engine isn’t running well, it’s your fault. Add electronic ignition, a fuel filter, and a fuel pressure gauge, and you’ll avoid 80% of the annual maintenance of the engine when it was designed. Good luck tracking down recurring fuel, air leak, and injector problems in your fantasy perfect diesel engine, with reasonably-priced Volvo and Yamaha parts on the shelf waiting for you to pluck them off.

It is certainly not cost. Diesel engine cost aside, replacing a prop, shaft, strut, stern tube, couplings, controls, engine instruments, and wiring is going to put you back thousands in labor or the equivalent time and effort. Installing a rebuilt Moyer A4 takes half a day.

There’s an old joke on the Moyer message boards:

So, what do you like best about your diesel - the vibration, or the smell?

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1 hour ago, tenders said:

It is certainly not reliability ...

I don't know Tender, I'm just not happy with the reliability of the A4's in these Tartans. I mean, my daughter's threw a rod after only 44 years of service. Mine's still running strong after 45 years, but I'm sure it's just a matter of another 10 or 20 years before it starts having problems too. The just don't build 'em like they used to ...

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Is upgrading to a diesel sensible in terms of resale value? Perhaps. Range? Definitely. Reliability? Certainly. Safety? No.

At issue here is a fundamental misunderstanding of safety.

It's certainly the case that, in a marine application, a diesel is intrinsically more safe than a gasoline engine. Unfortunately, the natural conclusion of pursuing "more safe" is that one is better off having no engine and, for that matter, no boat. Each of these is a logical step in the direction of perfecting safety.

The is scant evidence to indicate a gasoline engine is unsafe by any reasonable measure and that's the topic that's at hand here. The 2016 USCG Statistics on Recreational Boating show that 1 death was the result of failure to ventilate and 3 were the result of Fuel or Vapor. Those 4 deaths represent 1.5% of the 270 deaths associated with Auxiliary Sailboat use in US waters. If we discount half of the 3 as being from propane vapor (a reasonable guess), then we're down to 0.9%.

Spending $10000 to improve safety by less than 1% is ludicrous, especially when other factors that contribute to 10x the fatality rate can be ameliorated at zero cost.
 

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Yeah, my 41 year old Atomic 4 is a bomb waiting to go off.......and waiting.....and waiting.  That's why there aren't any boats made with gas engines any more.

And for God's sake, you aren't going to put that gas fueled car in your enclosed garage are you?  Don't you love your children?

I have a diesel, too.  I like the efficiency when I need to go far, but I hate the vibration, noise and stink every time it runs.

The safety discussion is stupid.  Good luck with the rebuild.  You'll love it.

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On 1/27/2018 at 5:10 AM, Moonduster said:

The is scant evidence to indicate a gasoline engine is unsafe by any reasonable measure and that's the topic that's at hand here. The 2016 USCG Statistics on Recreational Boating show that 1 death was the result of failure to ventilate and 3 were the result of Fuel or Vapor. Those 4 deaths represent 1.5% of the 270 deaths associated with Auxiliary Sailboat use in US waters. If we discount half of the 3 as being from propane vapor (a reasonable guess), then we're down to 0.9%.

Spending $10000 to improve safety by less than 1% is ludicrous, especially when other factors that contribute to 10x the fatality rate can be ameliorated at zero cost.
 

While I'm also quite in agreement in rejecting the reasoning that one should do anything that might increase safety, or rather more often what one reasons others must do, without consideration of by how much and at what cost, there is a flaw in the reasoning above.  It supposes that all recreational auxiliary sailboat use is equally at risk of injury due to fuel or vapor of inboard gasoline engines.  But inboard gasoline engines being quite rare now, this is clearly not the case.   In the extreme, it would be like saying that since no one has ever died sailing their yacht over Niagara Falls it is perfectly safe to do so.

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I never intended for this thread to become yet another "Atomic bomb" debate. But here's an update.

I talked to several Beta and Yanmar dealers at the boat show. In general, the basic engine would cost $8500+, and even the Beta is far from a "drop in replacement" for the A4, requiring thousands more be invested in the installation. That ain't happening. And I'm also not going to pick up a questionable used diesel off CL and go through the effort of adapting that in.

So ... I picked up a local Atomic 4 off CL, brought it home, and I'm doing a rebuild on it. I've got it mostly apart, and I'm finding that it's in pretty good shape. Just made my first order to Moyer for some of the bits and pieces I'll need, and instructions to my daughter on what to pull off her bad engine to send up to me. At this point, I'm thinking a couple grand will have that hunk of iron purring and I'll drop it into the kidlette's tub.

Full speed ahead!

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A well running Bomb is a sweet engine. 

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3 hours ago, xyzzy said:

While I'm also quite in agreement in rejecting the reasoning that one should do anything that might increase safety, or rather more often what one reasons others must do, without consideration of by how much and at what cost, there is a flaw in the reasoning above.  It supposes that all recreational auxiliary sailboat use is equally at risk of injury due to fuel or vapor of inboard gasoline engines.  But inboard gasoline engines being quite rare now, this is clearly not the case.   In the extreme, it would be like saying that since no one has ever died sailing their yacht over Niagara Falls it is perfectly safe to do so.

Inboard gas engines may be relatively rare in sailboats now but they are the vast majority of BOAT engines.

And very few of them blow up.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Inboard gas engines may be relatively rare in sailboats now but they are the vast majority of BOAT engines.

And very few of them blow up.

But the less than 1% from 2 out of 270 was from 270 deaths from Auxiliary Sailboats.   So it's limited to sailboats with engines and does not include power boats. 

For power boats (cabin + open), there are 136/3609 deaths from fire/explosion (fuel), about 3.8%.  Cabin alone, maybe closer to most sailboats, is 6.6%.  Perhaps that's a better assessment of risk.  Both much higher than sailboats' less than 1%.  Due to many things I'm sure, such as increased usage of engines and fuel and thus more exposure to fuel and fueling on powerboats, generally greater levels of cluelessness in powerboaters, and higher proportion of gasoline engines.

What would be better would be what percent of operating A4s blow up every here.  It is probably quite small.  And how much, if any, is it higher than the risk from inboard diesels.

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Bottom line is that it is virtually certain that you will die from reasons other than an exploding A4.

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There are lots of ways to die in this world.  A lot less ways to die while sailing, but still there are a number of them.  Even fewer ways to die from an exploding A4.  If you are stupid, if you fail to maintain your engine and its fuel system, if you fail to recognize the warning signs of leaking fuel, if you fail to provide an adequate grounding system, etc, etc, then you just might kill yourself with an A4.  But you have to actually try really hard...and ignore 100 warning signs...etc.  So if you do kill yourself with an A4, it's because you weren't very smart or even the least bit careful....

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Seriously people, enough of the exploding A4 debate. You have much more pressing matters to stress about, such as a fellow Anarchist thinking he can do a full engine rebuild on his own when he certainly lacks the tools and knowledge to take on such a task!

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9 hours ago, wristwister said:

Seriously people, enough of the exploding A4 debate. You have much more pressing matters to stress about, such as a fellow Anarchist thinking he can do a full engine rebuild on his own when he certainly lacks the tools and knowledge to take on such a task!

Tool advice:   1) You'l need a good torque wrench - the $20 unit from Harbor Freight w/a little pointer isn't a good torque wrench.  Piston ring pliers make installing the new rings a lot easier, and you'll need a piston ring compressor, too.  I don't know what the wristpin clips are like on that engine - but, a small screwdriver is usually enough to remove the old C-clips. Aside from that?  A normal socket set w/a 1/2" breaker bar oughta be enough.   

2) This is a simple, flathead-4 - if you get the machining done at someplace reputable, re-assembly will be very straightforward. 

3) Machining: You'll need to check the head/deck mating surfaces for absolute flatness - it's normal to need to mill a couple thousandth's off each to get 'em perfectly flat.  Have your crank/rod journals measured to see if any machining is necessary to get those back to round an in-spec for size.  W/R/T the big ends of the rods?   They can "resize" those by milling a couple thou' off the end cap, bolting them back together, and then re-boring the holes perfectly round.   If the crank journals aren't marred - they usually don't require more than a polishing.   Have the machine shop check the cylinder bores for "runout" - as they wear, they tend to get a little "egg-shaped" where the thrust surfaces of the piston push against the bottom of the cylinder walls.  if they're outta spec?  The machine shop can tell you how much, you buy over-sized (usually in .010" increments) pistons, and they'll bore the cylinders to fit.  

4) general reassembly tips: Assembly lube on all surfaces where two moving pieces meet.  Use a small amount on the piston skirts, none on or above the rings.  Put motor oil in your bolt holes, run a tap thru them to make sure they are clean before you apply torque.   Don't use "goop" on your gaskets - if the mating surfaces are fair - that's just a leak waiting to happen.  The exception to this is that if you're using a metal head gasket - spraying that w/copper coat before assembly isn't a bad idea. 

5) Cleanliness:  You can't be too clean - if you want to paint things - clean each piece and paint it before re-assembly.  Use a sharpened plastic credit-card and spray gasket remover to clean gasket surfaces on external covers/oil pan - a metal scraper can gouge those surfaces, and a gouge is a spot for a leak to start. 

Good luck w/the rebuild - if you are of a mind to do so, a pictorial build log would be fun to see. 

 

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Thanks for the advice Chesapeake Guy. Fortunately, I'm not really on my own with this engine rebuild. Moyer Marine is a wealth of information and parts, and the forum over there is chock full of rebuild newbies who have already asked all the dumb questions for me. My understanding is that as far as engines go, the A4 is one of the simpler and more forgiving rebuilds. It's basically a low compression WW2 era tractor engine. I mean, a 350 Lb chunk of iron that only puts out ~20 HP isn't exactly a precision machine!

And yes, I'm closely documenting this repair. For resale value of the boat I plan to provide a notebook with photos and data proving the rebuild. I'll share pics here, starting with the below. When I popped the head and other components, I was pleasantly surprised at the condition of the guts. These cylinders look perfect!

large.Cylinders.jpg.b66aff940766b8a1249d

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1 hour ago, wristwister said:

Thanks for the advice Chesapeake Guy. Fortunately, I'm not really on my own with this engine rebuild. Moyer Marine is a wealth of information and parts, and the forum over there is chock full of rebuild newbies who have already asked all the dumb questions for me. My understanding is that as far as engines go, the A4 is one of the simpler and more forgiving rebuilds. It's basically a low compression WW2 era tractor engine. I mean, a 350 Lb chunk of iron that only puts out ~20 HP isn't exactly a precision machine!

And yes, I'm closely documenting this repair. For resale value of the boat I plan to provide a notebook with photos and data proving the rebuild. I'll share pics here, starting with the below. When I popped the head and other components, I was pleasantly surprised at the condition of the guts. These cylinders look perfect!

large.Cylinders.jpg.b66aff940766b8a1249d

The intake valves look good - as does the cylinder deck - doesn't look like it''s been molested.  The hatch marks on the cylinder walls look promising too - 

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Yup, it does look good, as though a rebuild was just done on this engine or some such thing. The PO really knew nothing about the history of this engine. I was wondering whether to stop here, slap it back together and fire it up, but not knowing the history I don't want to risk lunching another motor so ... cover me, I'm going in!

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Take the thrust main bearing off and if it's good, button things back up.

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12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Take the thrust main bearing off and if it's good, button things back up.

Did you do a compression test before you took it apart?   That engine DOES look like it's been recently reconditioned - the water jackets look good, the cylinder deck is amazingly clean, and the cross-hatches in the cylinders are usually polished away after 30 hours or so of running.  Pull the oil pan - check the rod bearings for vertical movement ( there should be no vertical movement) - you may want to pull the caps off and check the condition of the rod & main bearings ( the likely cause of the new oil vent hole in your old engine)   They should look dull gray on the wear surface, w/no copper streaks showing through.   If you do that - pay attention to the bearing alignment - there's an indentation that has to be properly lined up w/the other bearing half to allow oil to come in.  

You may be able to button it back up w/new gaskets and paint and save yourself some time & $$ - if you decide to go that route - there are a couple things you oughta do while you're in there - replace the oil pump (unless it looks new), check the water jackets for any scale build up - and clean that out if there is any, and check the timing chain (assuming that has a chain and the cam isn't gear driven) - any slack in the timing chain would warrant a replacement.  

Again - best of luck - it's pretty satisfying moving one's self about in something you built/rebuilt. 

 

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On 1/31/2018 at 8:45 PM, wristwister said:

Seriously people, enough of the exploding A4 debate. You have much more pressing matters to stress about, such as a fellow Anarchist thinking he can do a full engine rebuild on his own when he certainly lacks the tools and knowledge to take on such a task!

Many examples of confidence and cash exceeding skills here. Hardly worthy of mention. The opportunity to speculate about the trajectory of the bits and pieces is rarer. 

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Chesapeake Guy, thanks for the continued advice, I appreciate it.

When I bought this engine, the head was just loosely attached with a couple studs and no head gasket. The exhaust valves were removed and a couple of them were missing. So ... no opportunity to do a compression check. This weekend I plan to flip the engine, pull the pan, and check out the crank case. 

Because this engine shows signs of disassembly and is missing a couple parts, I really feel compelled to check everything. I'd hate to button it up to later find out it was missing a bearing or a piston ring was upside down or some such thing.

No timing chain on an A4, cam is gear driven. Once the block is apart, I plan to do a muriatic acid soak on the block, head and manifold to clear some of the internal rust and scale. Then hopefully check flatness, clean up, paint, and reassemble.

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It wasn't clear that the engine was partly disassembled when you got it - because it was, your plan to strip & check everything is exactly right.

One trick you can do while it's stripped is to paint the inside of the engine with Glyptal or Dolph polyurethane electrical paint. This will speed oil drain back and keep the oil much cleaner. It's an old racers trick and it works well. You can spend a lot of time masking the machined surfaces first or simply spray it and wipe them clean with paper towels wetted with lacquer thinner.

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SloopJon, I've never heard of that trick. Thanks, I'll look into it. Clean oil is especially important in an old A4, as they have no oil filter.

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Carefully check cyl taper before you decide about boring or not, looks like whoever honed didn't use enough vertical motion. Might just be a bad pic though.

 

Cylinder_Sleeve_Honing.jpg

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I also thought it  looked like someone just broke the glaze on an old cylinder.  The cross hatch pattern is odd and the cylinder walls have dark areas.  Might have been a backyard rebuild that didn't pan out.

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Your daughter has good taste in boats.

One thing I have not seen addressed in this thread, is whether you are going to make the engine fresh or saltwater cooled. I advise you to go the extra mile and make it freshwater cooled.  Atomic-4's are known to have a thin area around the 4th cylinder that eventually corrodes away.  If you convert to FWC, you'll avoid that.  Also,  you'll never need to remove the side plate to clean crud out of the water jacket.  Winterization is also a snap, and safer for the engine...but I don't think you guys really winterize in your area, do you?

You can easily cobble together the necessary parts from eBay and craigslist.  Also, talk to Hike, Bitches on this forum. He converted his to FWC and can give you a list of part numbers and vendors. He uses an electric pump for the fresh water loop, if I recall.

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Dex and Blitz, I agree those are unusual hone marks. I mic'd out the cylinder bores and they're all within spec so I really don't want to mess with that. I'll talk to the machine shop and see what they suggest.

Ajax, yes I'm certainly considering fresh water cooling. I'll look into cobbling together a system out of cheap parts I get here and there. A plug-N-play FWC setup from Moyer or Indigo goes for ~$700.

I was on the fence regarding crank grinding and new journal bearings as there are some minor signs of wear and pitting, but I just did all my crank, bearing and cylinder measurements and it looks like my main and rod bearing clearances are out of spec, so ... just dropped the crank off at the machinist and I'll order the appropriate oversize bearings when I get it back.

Now to clean, strip and paint all the castings while I'm waiting. You guys are gonna love the color scheme my daughter has chosen for this engine!

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17 hours ago, wristwister said:

Dex and Blitz, I agree those are unusual hone marks. I mic'd out the cylinder bores and they're all within spec so I really don't want to mess with that. I'll talk to the machine shop and see what they suggest.

Ajax, yes I'm certainly considering fresh water cooling. I'll look into cobbling together a system out of cheap parts I get here and there. A plug-N-play FWC setup from Moyer or Indigo goes for ~$700.

I was on the fence regarding crank grinding and new journal bearings as there are some minor signs of wear and pitting, but I just did all my crank, bearing and cylinder measurements and it looks like my main and rod bearing clearances are out of spec, so ... just dropped the crank off at the machinist and I'll order the appropriate oversize bearings when I get it back.

Now to clean, strip and paint all the castings while I'm waiting. You guys are gonna love the color scheme my daughter has chosen for this engine!

Sounds like you're doing this the right way - I hope all goes back together well and that y'all get lots of enjoyment from that boat. 

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Wrist - one thing you should be aware of when painting the exterior of the engine - don't paint the main castings individually or you will end up with bits of bare spots when you assemble it.

Parts of the block deck that aren't covered by the cylinder head and so forth.

That's where rust will start - that's the voice of experience speaking.

Wait until you have the head on, the pan on, the side cover on etc - then paint, then put the accessories, belts, hoses etc. on.

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If you are looking for some top notch tools that are spot on your task, and won’t break the bank, check here:

 

769BB2FE-66E8-451B-B2FD-26551968B9D7.jpeg

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I think most of them are in the shed .....................:unsure:

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1 minute ago, Mid said:

I think most of them are in the shed .....................:unsure:

Is that the fabled “shed of doom”?

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insignificant branch on the family tree of

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29 minutes ago, wristwister said:

Ain't she purdy!

 

Engine1.jpg

Engine2.jpg

her indoors thinks so ...............:wub:

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Once it's reinstalled it should be good for many years.

image.png.2a87f2fbfb41087d9a05d8e77c379f94.png

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Oh My Fucking God.

There's another one.

I thought i was the only one who understood the simple beauty of pink.

Fuck Yeah, that is cool as fucking shit, fuck whatever anyone else says.

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That. Is. Awesome.

Never thought of the A4 as a chick engine, but as long as she runs cool she’s kinda hot, isn’t she?!

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27 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

I thought i was the only one who understood the simple beauty of pink.

What??? PINK!!! Well shit, I knew I should have taken my wife to buy the engine paint. This color blindness can be a real bitch sometimes.

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I have three sailboat inboards right now. 

Maybe you need to drive down to Austin and buy one of them 

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Got you beat Gouvernail, I've got FOUR inboards! I used parts from all of them to build this one. 

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2 hours ago, wristwister said:

Got you beat Gouvernail, I've got FOUR inboards! I used parts from all of them to build this one. 

You could have colored the bits by donor engine, just for the fun of having a mongrel. The pink and aqua will show oil leaks quickly. 

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1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

You could have colored the bits by donor engine, just for the fun of having a mongrel. The pink and aqua will show oil leaks quickly. 

That's a good thing.

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I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry but in the end, it was tears of joy. Well done!

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Very cool love the color scheme. Did not know you could get high temp paint in those colors, but that will be a conversation starter for many moons I am sure.

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On 24/04/2018 at 1:07 PM, wristwister said:

Ain't she purdy!

 

Engine1.jpg

Engine2.jpg

Weird colors to paint your anchor, I hope the fish appreciate it. 

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Hmm - looks like you kept the points distributor?   Just my $.02 - but, ya MIGHT wanta think about swapping that out for an HEI while you're at it - it will eliminate one of the common failure modes.  To the paint?  hey man - if it suits you and the people with ya?   have at it.  I'm kinda old school Chevy Orange/Ford Blue in my tastes. 

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On 1/30/2018 at 7:00 PM, Shenanigan77 said:

Yeah, my 41 year old Atomic 4 is a bomb waiting to go off.......and waiting.....and waiting.  That's why there aren't any boats made with gas engines any more.

And for God's sake, you aren't going to put that gas fueled car in your enclosed garage are you?  Don't you love your children?

I have a diesel, too.  I like the efficiency when I need to go far, but I hate the vibration, noise and stink every time it runs.

The safety discussion is stupid.  Good luck with the rebuild.  You'll love it.

Lurking here - had 3 MD2020 MD2030 and a one cylinder with a  100lb fly wheel all ran great and all were diesels and ran performed great.

All engines have vibrations just do not run it where the resonance is.  Stink - if you smell something then something is wrong..  

 

BTW love the pink different for sure but good.

 

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50 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Hmm - looks like you kept the points distributor?   Just my $.02 - but, ya MIGHT wanta think about swapping that out for an HEI while you're at it - it will eliminate one of the common failure modes.  To the paint?  hey man - if it suits you and the people with ya?   have at it.  I'm kinda old school Chevy Orange/Ford Blue in my tastes. 

Changing to electronic ignition and FWC makes those things almost as reliable as a diesel.

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Ran the engine on a stand yesterday. She fired right up, a little tweaking of distributor position and oil pressure adjustment, and she's purring like a kitten. No weird noises, no leaks, no odd vibrations.. In a couple weeks I load it into the truck, head to CA, and plunk it into my kidlette's Tartan.

Chesapeake Guy and SloopJon, yes it's got electronic ignition. Why anybody would still be messing with points today is beyond me.

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3 hours ago, wristwister said:

Ran the engine on a stand yesterday. She fired right up, a little tweaking of distributor position and oil pressure adjustment, and she's purring like a kitten. No weird noises, no leaks, no odd vibrations.. In a couple weeks I load it into the truck, head to CA, and plunk it into my kidlette's Tartan.

Chesapeake Guy and SloopJon, yes it's got electronic ignition. Why anybody would still be messing with points today is beyond me.

Awesome!   Big smile?    I'm sure the manual's told ya this, but, run her thru 3 heat cycles, change the oil, and then put it to work.  

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Yup, that's the plan Chesapeake. I ran it through it's first heat cycle, then per the manual I checked the torque on all the head nuts. Wise advise as several of them went quite a ways to get back to 35 lb. But ... that LAAAAST nut torqueing stripped the stud threads out of the block. No biggie, Moyer sells a handy dandy kit for dealing with that. Once that's fixed, I'll run her through her paces.

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On 4/25/2018 at 11:44 AM, Lucky Dog said:

Lurking here - had 3 MD2020 MD2030 and a one cylinder with a  100lb fly wheel all ran great and all were diesels and ran performed great.

All engines have vibrations just do not run it where the resonance is.  Stink - if you smell something then something is wrong..  

 

BTW love the pink different for sure but good.

 

I can assure you with great confidence a 3 cylinder Yanmar at its smoothest generates more vibration than an Atomic 4.  Objectionable?  Not necessarily, but more vibration?  Absolutely.  And yes, I understand resonance and avoid it.

As to stink, if it means something is wrong, then every bus, semi and diesel pickup I've seen in the last 60 years had something wrong.  If you like the smell of diesel exhaust, good on you, but it's a stronger and more pervasive odor than a properly running gas engine.

Diesels are great in many applications.  My Yanmar has been reliable and fuel efficient and it's a good engine.  Does it vibrate more and generate more stink than my Atomic 4 did?  Yup. 

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17 hours ago, wristwister said:

Yup, that's the plan Chesapeake. I ran it through it's first heat cycle, then per the manual I checked the torque on all the head nuts. Wise advise as several of them went quite a ways to get back to 35 lb. But ... that LAAAAST nut torqueing stripped the stud threads out of the block. No biggie, Moyer sells a handy dandy kit for dealing with that. Once that's fixed, I'll run her through her paces.

Thank goodness for helicoils!!   I hope that engine gives ya lots of trouble-free service! 

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On 1/25/2018 at 1:19 PM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Wister - out here, Moyer Marine is considered the "go to" for Atomic 4 stuff - good luck w/your rebuild! 
https://moyermarine.com/

 

This!!!!!

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Yup, Moyer is tops. Gotta say, when it comes to the whole Atomic Bomb Vs Diesel debate, the Moyer connection sways the argument WAAY over to the Atomic side. I can't imagine that Yanmar or Beta can have even close to the level of tech support Moyer provides. But then again, I've probably made the next few payments on Don's Porsche with all the bits I've ordered from them for this rebuild.

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On 5/2/2018 at 6:27 PM, Shenanigan77 said:

I can assure you with great confidence a 3 cylinder Yanmar at its smoothest generates more vibration than an Atomic 4.  Objectionable?  Not necessarily, but more vibration?  Absolutely.  And yes, I understand resonance and avoid it.

As to stink, if it means something is wrong, then every bus, semi and diesel pickup I've seen in the last 60 years had something wrong.  If you like the smell of diesel exhaust, good on you, but it's a stronger and more pervasive odor than a properly running gas engine.

Diesels are great in many applications.  My Yanmar has been reliable and fuel efficient and it's a good engine.  Does it vibrate more and generate more stink than my Atomic 4 did?  Yup. 

interesting regarding smell.  I use the pink diesel fuel (marine type) - I never get black smoke  - perhaps grey at times.  

Each of the older engines I had the injectors rebuilt and tested prior to running motor a lot as they typically are neglected.  I

The current Volvo runs clean - after a day of hard running 10hrs max RPM.  No one is complaining about engine smell and my Mother in Law complains about every thing except for smells.  BTW  Boat is a First 40.7.

So...... that's my experience with my boats.

To your point I have been on what i would call poorly maintained diesel boats burning gas station diesel and yes they stink and blow black smoke.   

 

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