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sail69

PHRF and Overlap...

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So talking with my sailmaker about new sails.  I want a 125% because of ease of handling while still maintaining upwind performance (plenty of wind here).  But...PHRF in our neck of the woods does not give credit under a 135%.   In todays world of aging sailors and smaller overlaps seems a bit odd.

Do other PHRF fleets reflect a credit for a 125?

Thanks in advance.

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Don't know where you are but in the mid-atlantic, you can get credit for smaller sails, but it depends on the configuration. For instance, if you have a modern boat that is designed for non-overlapping headsails, you don't get credit for their small size. Here is the language:

 

Quote

For a “traditional” boat configuration using a genoa with LP/J of 155%, a +6 second adjustment is made for jibs with LP/J ratios of 111%-135%. An additional + 3 secs is made for headsails smaller than 110%. The same base boat increasing headsail size to an LP/J of 156% to 170% would incur a penalty of – 3 secs, with additional 3 seconds subtracted for sails between 171% and 180%. Models which CANNOT fly a larger headsail, or where the base rating includes a smaller class-standard headsail, should have the smaller size “built in” to the base rating, and may not see an adjustment. Adjustments may also be expressed with these tables.

 

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4 minutes ago, pete_nj said:

Don't know where you are but in the mid-atlantic, you can get credit for smaller sails, but it depends on the configuration. For instance, if you have a modern boat that is designed for non-overlapping headsails, you don't get credit for their small size. Here is the language:

 

 

Ok this makes sense. My boat is not designed for overlapping sails so i guess that is built into the base rate.

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Here's PHRF of the Chesapeake's rating adjustments:

Headsail Rating Adjustments. Boats designed for the use of overlapping headsails may receive a credit when the LP measurement of the largest headsail is less than 140% of J. The penalty for headsails exceeding 155% of J has not changed. Generally, the adjustments will be as follows:

LP up to 109% - 6 sec/mi. credit.

LP between 110% and 139% - 3 sec/mi. credit.

LP between 140% and 155% - 0 sec/mi. (No Credit)

LP over 155% - 6 sec/mi. penalty.

Note: Boats designed for non-overlapping jibs are not eligible for this credit.

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Just do like most, go as large as you can and don't tell anyone.:o

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When I got my new genoa our sailmaker did the calculations. For us, the magic number was 142%. We also double checked with the phrf measurer in our area. 

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Yea well I have an 18'J and I am not feeding/waiting for/fixing/beering/coordinating schedules of winch gorillas to grind in 25' (+) (-) of sail for the occasional beer can/regatta race.

Gonna have a chat with the local PHRF honchos and see if I can get them to join this century and realize headsails are getting smaller, crews are getting smaller and we are getting older.

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That's true of newer boats. The main is getting larger and headsails are smaller. The main on the Ranger 26 is pretty much just a trim tab. The headsail is where all the power comes from. Older boats were penalized for having larger mains so the headsails became bigger. It was part of maximizing performance under the measuring rule of the day. 

If you're not racing much, don't worry about it and goes with what works for you and your boat. 

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North Carolina PHRF for largest headsail carried on the boat:

LP/J%            Adjustment

<= 110           +6

111 - 135      +3

136 - 155      Base Rating

156 - 165      -3

> 166             -6

Local PHRF committees have a lot of leeway when writing their rules for rating adjustments.  Changes are often made to protect the fleet, even the field, or encourage participation.  Make the argument with your PHRF committee that a break for smaller headsails will, "encourage participation", in your area.

 

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Everyone, this is a serious issue.
US Sailing which over sees PHRF for the entire USA has failed us on this issue.
In So Cal we have found many discrepancies when it comes to class boars that have OD and PHRF ratings.

How far should PHRF carry a OD rating? Float lines, crew weight and sail inventory?
All of this means we need volunteers to enforce the PHRF and Class rules.

As someone who sits on a regional board and heads a local board, I can say everyone bitches but  will not step up to make a difference.

PHRF needs people of quality. Please step up.


 

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18 hours ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Forget the sails. Go for  a custom transom door credit.  

What about changing the mast, keel and rudder?

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16 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

Everyone, this is a serious issue.
US Sailing which over sees PHRF for the entire USA has failed us on this issue.
In So Cal we have found many discrepancies when it comes to class boars that have OD and PHRF ratings.

How far should PHRF carry a OD rating? Float lines, crew weight and sail inventory?
All of this means we need volunteers to enforce the PHRF and Class rules.

As someone who sits on a regional board and heads a local board, I can say everyone bitches but  will not step up to make a difference.

PHRF needs people of quality. Please step up.


 

This is why Mass Bay is moving away from PHRF. US Sailing's "oversight" is a joke, but it's not funny.

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On 1/26/2018 at 11:58 AM, ryley said:

This is why Mass Bay is moving away from PHRF. US Sailing's "oversight" is a joke, but it's not funny.

Moving to what?

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