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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Wet Spreaders

Dragging a line

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There's a short handed race coming up - the bay will be quite crowded, particularly at mark roundings.

My favorite way to douse the kite when short-handed is to toss the tack and halyard overboard, then open the tack clutch and gather the foot, then open the halyard and pull the sail down. This works well because you are guaranteed not to have knots in the halyard - you can check that it's streaming nicely behind - and there's just enough tension on the line to help control the drop while you use both hands to pull the sail down.

When I'm dragging a line and there's a guy coming into the mark behind me on the same gybe, do I need to worry (from a rules POV) about him touching my dragged line? The line is in a normal position from the POV of the action that I'm taking - short handed drop - and he is the keep-clear boat under usual circumstances. 

What about if I'm on port and a guy on starboard wants to cross behind me? 

Usually this question occurs to me about 10 boatlengths from the leeward mark in a short handed race, and evaporates 10 boatlengths to windward of the same mark. This time, I remembered to ask before getting on the water. What do you all think?

 

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Just my opinion, dragging two lines because you're shorthanded may be "normal" for shorthanded, but not for the boat itself, which would typically have crew, not water, doing the linehandling. 

Plus, if that's a normal part of your boat, you will end up having to give buoy room to too many boats behind you even if your hull is within the circle.

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30 minutes ago, Wet Spreaders said:

There's a short handed race coming up - the bay will be quite crowded, particularly at mark roundings.

My favorite way to douse the kite when short-handed is to toss the tack and halyard overboard, then open the tack clutch and gather the foot, then open the halyard and pull the sail down. This works well because you are guaranteed not to have knots in the halyard - you can check that it's streaming nicely behind - and there's just enough tension on the line to help control the drop while you use both hands to pull the sail down.

When I'm dragging a line and there's a guy coming into the mark behind me on the same gybe, do I need to worry (from a rules POV) about him touching my dragged line? The line is in a normal position from the POV of the action that I'm taking - short handed drop - and he is the keep-clear boat under usual circumstances. 

What about if I'm on port and a guy on starboard wants to cross behind me? 

Usually this question occurs to me about 10 boatlengths from the leeward mark in a short handed race, and evaporates 10 boatlengths to windward of the same mark. This time, I remembered to ask before getting on the water. What do you all think?

 

Yup...that is the classic way to do it.   No problems 

i dont know what to rule interpretation would be 

 

 

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I saw this topic and though it was about this, the famous 'Draggin' Bowline'. 

 

I've conned more than a few drinks at the waterfront bars with this one!

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5 hours ago, Wet Spreaders said:

There's a short handed race coming up - the bay will be quite crowded, particularly at mark roundings.

My favorite way to douse the kite when short-handed is to toss the tack and halyard overboard, then open the tack clutch and gather the foot, then open the halyard and pull the sail down. This works well because you are guaranteed not to have knots in the halyard - you can check that it's streaming nicely behind - and there's just enough tension on the line to help control the drop while you use both hands to pull the sail down.

When I'm dragging a line and there's a guy coming into the mark behind me on the same gybe, do I need to worry (from a rules POV) about him touching my dragged line? The line is in a normal position from the POV of the action that I'm taking - short handed drop - and he is the keep-clear boat under usual circumstances. 

What about if I'm on port and a guy on starboard wants to cross behind me? 

There are two cases that deal with this issue.

 
Definitions, Keep Clear
Rule 12, On the Same Tack, Not Overlapped
Rule 14, Avoiding Contact
Rule 31, Touching a Mark
Contact with a mark by a boat's equipment constitutes touching it. A boat obligated to keep clear does not break a rule when touched by a right-of-way boat's equipment that moves unexpectedly out of normal position.
 
 
Definitions, Keep Clear
Rule 12, On the Same Tack, Not Overlapped
Rule 14, Avoiding Contact
A boat required to keep clear must keep clear of another boat's equipment out of its normal position when the equipment has been out of its normal position long enough for the equipment to have been seen and avoided.
 
I would be happy to presume that a spinnaker halyard dragging in the water was not reasonably able to be seen, and that Case 91 is not determinative.
 
MR Call A4 is also helpful
 
A spinnaker in the process of being set or taken down is not ‘equipment in normal position’ in the context of the definition where this term is used.
 
So, by extension, a spinnaker halyard, outside the boat, in the process of the spinnaker being taken in is not in its normal position.
 
Note that 'normal position' is only relevant through the definition of Clear Ahead, Clear Astern, Overlap   This means that the 'lline abeam' for determining whethere a boat is clear astern or overlapped (for purposes of rules 12 or 11) does NOT go from the end of the halyard, but from the aftermost point of the hull or equipment that IS in its normal position.  This means that, if boats are on the same tack,the right of way rule in play is rule 12, boat clear astern must keep clear.
 
The test in Case 77 is useful
 
[A boat clear astern} B ... keeps clear of [a boat clear ahead] A, ... [if] ... nothing B did or failed to do required A "to take avoiding action" (see the definition Keep Clear)

So:

For a port/starboard cross, rule 10 applies.  If P was unable to see the trailing line and nothing P did or failed to do required S "to take avoiding action",then P has not broken rule 10.

Maybe, just maybe, if P was crossing close astern and part of the trailing line was readily visible, it might be different.

For a boat on the same tack coming from clear astern, where she will first engage the trailing end of the halyard:

  1. whether she gets to windward or leeward of the trailing line won't engage rule 11 and rule 12 will apply;
  2. If B was unable to see the trailing line and nothing B did or failed to do required A "to take avoiding action",then B has not broken rule 12.

In either P/S or CAHD/CASTN, if it was not reasonably possible for the give way boat to see the trailing line, then it was not reasonably possible for to avoid contact and she has not broken rule 14.  Presumably there will be no damage or injury so if a protest committee concluded that it was reasonably possible for the right of way boat to have avoided contact by not trailing the line in the first place, then the right of way boat shall be exonerated for breaking rule 14 in accordance with ruel 14( b ).

 

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Now run the case where you tie an orange float to the end of your halyard, such that it's " reasonably able to be seen" 

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21 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

Now run the case where you tie an orange float to the end of your halyard, such that it's " reasonably able to be seen" 

Ten pound lead ball should do the trick.

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1 hour ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Oh for fucks sake does anyone think you can drag a line 100 feet behind and call it part of the boat? Apologize for asking it   

Mr Moderator, delete this thread! 

They don't do that. You'll have to just ignore it.

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3 hours ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Oh for fucks sake does anyone think you can drag a line 100 feet behind and call it part of the boat? Apologize for asking it   

Mr Moderator, delete this thread! 

x 10,000

 

 

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6 minutes ago, footlong said:
3 hours ago, TonyFromSheepsheadBay said:

Oh for fucks sake does anyone think you can drag a line 100 feet behind and call it part of the boat? Apologize for asking it   

Mr Moderator, delete this thread! 

x 10,000

You our ritte, Mr Modditatore, plesae deleete thisse Toney.                                        :)

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12 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

You our ritte, Mr Modditatore, plesae deleete thisse Toney.                                        :)

x 2

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:
6 minutes ago, footlong said:

x 2

I'm ignoring Tony and Moderate. Is that close enough?

Plusse Oune!                                       :)

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The race commitee would consider the position of the boats before the line or equipment is over the side .

if a piece of your boat is over the side ...your spinnaker or something and I touch it..i get protested 

as far as i know boats lengths are in relation to LOA...a 25 footer is 25 loa

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